Turner RFX DW or Intense Uzzi VP

[ShaunW]

Well guys, I need some ideas for selecting my next bike. At the moment I am planning to get new bike for 2010, and am on the fence for either an Intense Uzzi VP (with air shock) or Turner RFX DW. Both bikes brands seems to have good reviews on the suspension designs, and I am a little confuse on which bike to go for..

Firstly, I already have a spider VPP as my xc ride and am pretty happy with it.. but from a long travel bike perspective, the DW design seems to be appealing alternative to the VPP, where everyone seem to be raving on about it’s active suspension during pedaling. Is it really the holy grail to suspension design or has it been talked up a little? And how would it ride in comparison to the VPP2 design. I am keen to try something different (DW) for a change, but am only keen, if it is as good as people promote it to be. As the VPP design has served me well.

Secondly, for all you turner followers out there, is DT going to stick with the 142mm x 12mm axle? Is there any likelihood that the RFX might have a interchangeable dropouts design like intense. I would seriously like to know, as it might be a deal breaker for, as I have some parts from my yeti 575 that I would like to transfer over. If it is going to have a 135mm spacing.. that would be brilliant in my books.. Also when is it likely to come out? I know DT did say that it is a proto, but is it likely to come out around spring next year? Or longer?

Lastly, I have a rohloff hub sitting around and was wondering it would work well or ok ish with either the RFX DW or the Uzzi VP.. I am a little concern that the weight of the hub might mess up the suspension feel.. The other problem with using the hub is that it requires a 40t front chain ring up front, which is heard isnt a good mix with the DW design, or is it? Also would it run well with the VPP2 design?

Well, if you guys could help me tip the scale, that would be great.. given that both of the bikes seems to have brilliant features..

Shaun.

[turnerbikes]

To better understand the difference between VP2 and the dw-link you need to ride them, preferably on same trails and travel catagories. I had the chance to do just that a few weeks ago, no question in my mind that DW is in another league when it comes to doing math and physics. Biased?? Of course I am, but I rode them and they are very different. Just to clarify my opinion of better, a suspension has to be active in the rocks on a climb and the braking should not be noticeable.

142 is the new thing, all the biggest component makers will be offering the axles and hubs etc etc for any XC--AM class bikes. I have seen the future and it is X-12, although the catalyst Syntace will probably not be mentioned much in the US, it was they who put the web site up and asked everyone around including high end hub makers from US to add the end cap profile to their parts offerings. That said for those few who own hubs and wheels without the company behind X12 I will be looking into a drop out that can be spaced down to 135, probably. I say probably to give myself an out, in case the X12 is gaining so much momentum by the time we finalize the bike. One of the last hold outs is Chris King, if they will make an axle/end cap set up for thier current 135x12 hub, I probably will not offer a 135 option,, so drop them a line if you have a King wheelset and ask for 142x12.

It will NOT be ready in the spring,remember DHR first, if you WILL be buying in the spring, get a Firebird. You will get the best in pedaling in a big travel trail bike.

DT

[juan_speeder]

Originally Posted by turnerbikes

It will NOT be ready in the spring,remember DHR first, if you WILL be buying in the spring, get a Firebird. You will get the best in pedaling in a big travel trail bike.

DT

Now, there's something you don't see every day

[rmac]

Originally Posted by juan_speeder

Now, there's something you don't see every day

LOL. Reverse psych in action!

[2TurnersNotEnough]

Originally Posted by juan_speeder

Now, there's something you don't see every day

After taking my second DW Link (Mach 429) bike for its first ride on Saturday, I will say get the Pivot. The bike the 429 is replacing is a short travel CVA design, and I really preferred the DWL design. I built up the 429 with almost all (I had to use a different crank/BB and headset due to the Pivot's integration of the bearings into the frame) so I was able to make a true apples-to-apples comparison. The biggest difference in suspension performance I noticed was how much more supple the DWL is in chop. The "other" bike felt like it was overdamped on the compression to help it pedal well.

[skunkty14]

Originally Posted by ShaunW

Secondly, for all you turner followers out there, is DT going to stick with the 142mm x 12mm axle? Is there any likelihood that the RFX might have a interchangeable dropouts design like intense. I would seriously like to know, as it might be a deal breaker for, as I have some parts from my yeti 575 that I would like to transfer over. If it is going to have a 135mm spacing.. that would be brilliant in my books.. Also when is it likely to come out? I know DT did say that it is a proto, but is it likely to come out around spring next year? Or longer? Shaun.

No offense, but ruling out a frame b/c of an existing hub spacing issue for a $2000+ frame just seems silly. Figure out if your hub is convertible or re-lace the wheel with a new hub. If adjustable geo is what you're after that's a different story but this is akin to ruling out an Audi/BMW/Benz and buying a Yugo b/c your existing 15" steel rims won't fit the bolt pattern IMO. And I'm not comparing the Uzzi to a Yugo BTW.

[McStank]

Originally Posted by turnerbikes

To better understand the difference between VP2 and the dw-link you need to ride them, preferably on same trails and travel catagories. I had the chance to do just that a few weeks ago, no question in my mind that DW is in another league when it comes to doing math and physics. Biased?? Of course I am, but I rode them and they are very different. Just to clarify my opinion of better, a suspension has to be active in the rocks on a climb and the braking should not be noticeable.

142 is the new thing, all the biggest component makers will be offering the axles and hubs etc etc for any XC--AM class bikes. I have seen the future and it is X-12, although the catalyst Syntace will probably not be mentioned much in the US, it was they who put the web site up and asked everyone around including high end hub makers from US to add the end cap profile to their parts offerings. That said for those few who own hubs and wheels without the company behind X12 I will be looking into a drop out that can be spaced down to 135, probably. I say probably to give myself an out, in case the X12 is gaining so much momentum by the time we finalize the bike. One of the last hold outs is Chris King, if they will make an axle/end cap set up for thier current 135x12 hub, I probably will not offer a 135 option,, so drop them a line if you have a King wheelset and ask for 142x12.

It will NOT be ready in the spring,remember DHR first, if you WILL be buying in the spring, get a Firebird. You will get the best in pedaling in a big travel trail bike.

DT

I am curious Dave... what two bikes did you ride a few weeks ago to compare. were they both 29'rs, 26'rs? Obviously one was your frame, who was the other?

Can you list any of the biggest component manufacturers that have signed on to the X-12 marketing bandwagon?

Because the Pivot Firebird is a DW linked bike, and is, "the best in a pedaling big travel bike", does that mean the new RFX is going to mimic the Firebird in handling and geometry?

Any help would be appreciated. I am looking to replace my current frame with a long travel trail bike and your wisdom seems endless in this category.

Thanks.

[turnerbikes]

All the biggest component makers will offer 142 x 12, thats pretty clear I think. But more importantly all the COOL stuff from Hadley, I9, DT, Mavic etc has it drawn up and offered to OE. I did the reseach on this months and months ago and these small cool companies had the info and promised to have conversions available for their previous stuff.

26rs. 3 mini link bikes, one VPP, one dw-link (mine) one Maestro. Huge difference between them and my bikes. Try for yourself and decide, if you climb in a rocky area the difference will be more pronounced, if you ride up on a road or shuttle the performance differences are less noticeable. You may love something else and everything I feel and think you can call BS on, most importantly get something that you love and then ride it till it dies.

The RFX will not mimic the Firebird, but it will be the brother from another mother. Their traits of anti squat while pedaling are pure dw-link, active to absorb rocks and roots under power but as much anti squat (bob etc) as possible so it feels like an XC bike that gained a little weight over the winter. Other features of their design are in Pivot or Turner Bikes family tree.

Happy trails.

DT

[tscheezy]

Originally Posted by turnerbikes

Try for yourself and decide, if you climb in a rocky area the difference will be more pronounced, if you ride up on a road or shuttle the performance differences are less noticeable.

I took a friend's VPP Uzzi out for a day recently. It would be a very fun shuttle bike, or with some limited smooth climbing thrown in (as long as you don't have to stand), but I would not want to spend an extended period turning the cranks on the thing. There seems to be a point around the 6-7" travel mark where VPP system stops helping you pedal. I've ridden some good 6" VPP models, and the VPFree was cool (RIP), but above 6" they tend to ride like every other ridicu-squish bike out there (i.e. SOFT).

If with the new RFX DT can tame the boing when pedaling, and still descend almost like a DH bike, I will be impressed. In other words, it has to be even better than the Highline.

[McStank]

Originally Posted by turnerbikes

All the biggest component makers will offer 142 x 12, thats pretty clear I think. But more importantly all the COOL stuff from Hadley, I9, DT, Mavic etc has it drawn up and offered to OE. I did the reseach on this months and months ago and these small cool companies had the info and promised to have conversions available for their previous stuff.

26rs. 3 mini link bikes, one VPP, one dw-link (mine) one Maestro. Huge difference between them and my bikes. Try for yourself and decide, if you climb in a rocky area the difference will be more pronounced, if you ride up on a road or shuttle the performance differences are less noticeable. You may love something else and everything I feel and think you can call BS on, most importantly get something that you love and then ride it till it dies.

The RFX will not mimic the Firebird, but it will be the brother from another mother. Their traits of anti squat while pedaling are pure dw-link, active to absorb rocks and roots under power but as much anti squat (bob etc) as possible so it feels like an XC bike that gained a little weight over the winter. Other features of their design are in Pivot or Turner Bikes family tree.

Happy trails.

DT

Well played sir, well played...































RESPECT! Booyah!

[wilks]

Originally Posted by skunkty14

No offense, but ruling out a frame b/c of an existing hub spacing issue for a $2000+ frame just seems silly. Figure out if your hub is convertible or re-lace the wheel with a new hub. If adjustable geo is what you're after that's a different story but this is akin to ruling out an Audi/BMW/Benz and buying a Yugo b/c your existing 15" steel rims won't fit the bolt pattern IMO. And I'm not comparing the Uzzi to a Yugo BTW.

I don't get the analogy since when you buy a new or used car it comes with wheels that are specced for the car. When you buy a Turner frame you don't get a free hub. Buying a new hub and relacing to an existing rim is expensive. I would hope if I got a DW RFX I could get a conversion kit versus needing a new set up. Extra $ on an already expensive frame could be the deal breaker for some.

[2w4s]

Originally Posted by wilks

I don't get the analogy since when you buy a new or used car it comes with wheels that are specced for the car. When you buy a Turner frame you don't get a free hub. Buying a new hub and relacing to an existing rim is expensive. I would hope if I got a DW RFX I could get a conversion kit versus needing a new set up. Extra $ on an already expensive frame could be the deal breaker for some.

have you ever asked a car dealer to put your old rims on your new car so you could save $? stuff changes, technology moves forward for better or worse, I'm pretty sure they would just look at you with that way they look at people who ask for crazy ****. Fetzer valves, ball bearings and gauze are not included.

[FoShizzle]

Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough

After taking my second DW Link (Mach 429) bike for its first ride on Saturday, I will say get the Pivot. The bike the 429 is replacing is a short travel CVA design, and I really preferred the DWL design. I built up the 429 with almost all (I had to use a different crank/BB and headset due to the Pivot's integration of the bearings into the frame) so I was able to make a true apples-to-apples comparison. The biggest difference in suspension performance I noticed was how much more supple the DWL is in chop. The "other" bike felt like it was overdamped on the compression to help it pedal well.

would you stop saying "other" bike! we all know its a sack of ass Ninerbikes you are comparing against for which the DW dominated

[KRob]

The plot thickens. I'm very interested in the new RFX... if Dave can make it pedal like the Firebird and descend like my D-T then he has a sale.

FWIW.... after riding the Firebird and the Uzzi VP (if those were my choices) I'd take the Uzzi.

[ShaunW]

Thanks for the feedback guys,

Well, it was a really tough one to figure out as there are many great bikes out there and there are also equally as many marketing magic out there.. As I am from NZ, I don’t think I will get a chance to ride both bikes out, as these aren’t the sort of bike most bike store here would have, I will have to relying on you guys for some ideas.. ; )

From the sound of things, the DW-Link design seems to be getting a very good reception from many people I have asked, as the suspension design remains active whole under load, which is a great thing, as my spider can be a little sketchy when riding up a technical terrain.

You guys are also pretty responsive with your answer, as I have also posted this question on the intense site and haven’t really got may replies.. But E2@CC seem to have a really good point of the pivot placement for the DW Turners, where the difference in pivot location for the 5-Spot and the DHR does to an extend have some influence on the riding style of the bike.. I believe this does make some sense as both the 5-spot and DHR have different pivot locations and given that the pedaling force influence does change along with chain’s position on a given ring.. Looking at the current rendition of the RFX, as the lower pivot appears to be nearly horizontal at its sag point, the pedaling interference seems to be nullified by the frame design and keeps the suspension active.

As for the axle standards, gosh when is the bike industry going to settle with a universal standard.. with the present constant changes of standards, they should have just started with a big bottom bracket, head tube and axle.. if so all this constant changes would be over and done with, stiffest of everything you can get.
Well, it is really up to DT to decide on the appropriate standard out there, but as for me, I am partial towards a replaceable dropout design, as it will give the buyers an opportunity to update their bikes to meet all the different standards out there.. Who know we might soon see 15mm and 20mm axle gaining popularity too.. Looks like I might have to put my rohloff hub on my hardtail or find it a new home..

Well, I guess the turner DW bikes is the way to go.. Ohh, is the 5-spot a good alternative to the RFX for trail riding/allmountain wise or should I endure the wait…

Shaun.

[ShaunW]

Skunkty14,

Well, you do have a point, but I will have to agree with Wilks on this one, some of us are not out to buy a complete new bike, as we would either own a couple of bikes or replacing a bike.. and as bike parts devalue so quickly, not all of us are keen to sell off all our spare bike bits just to keep up with all the different bike standards.. and don’t forget, the we would also like to have the ability to swap and change the stuff between the bikes we have. Also, if we have to sell off all our bike parts that are sitting around to meet the new standards, we will have to realize the net lost from selling it, which is likely to run in the thousands.

SW.

[ShaunW]

KRob,

Great bike interbike reviews, it was really helpful to put things into perspective..

Got some questions though, if the RFX rode like something between the 5-Spot and DHR, would it be right on the money? Is there any things you didnt like about the Uzzi..

SW

[2TurnersNotEnough]

I was just trying to give the post that feeling of the old commercials where they had to say "other leading brands", and couldn't say who. Even though everyone knew who the comparison was against.

I guess some people just don't appreciate a subtle reference, and need to have everything spelled out.

[1soulrider]

Originally Posted by ShaunW

Well, I guess the turner DW bikes is the way to go.. Ohh, is the 5-spot a good alternative to the RFX for trail riding/allmountain wise or should I endure the wait…

Shaun.

The DW Spot is an excellent choice for trail / allmountain riding. I went from a 07 RFX to a DW Spot and feel the new Spot is at least as capable in the rough with better suspension performance both up and down the mountain.
I run mine with a 36 and a durable component build, it sits just over 30 pounds and is great fun to ride nearly everywhere.

That said, I am looking forward to some saddle time on the new RFX.

[turnerbikes]

( But E2@CC seem to have a really good point of the pivot placement for the DW Turners, where the difference in pivot location for the 5-Spot and the DHR does to an extend have some influence on the riding style of the bike.. I believe this does make some sense as both the 5-spot and DHR have different pivot locations and given that the pedaling force influence does change along with chain’s position on a given ring.. Looking at the current rendition of the RFX, as the lower pivot appears to be nearly horizontal at its sag point, the pedaling interference seems to be nullified by the frame design and keeps the suspension active.)
The BIGGEST difference between the 5 Spot and the DHR is that the DHR has a HUGE damper and loads of low speed compression damping capable of hitting BIG sh!te at mach speeds in comparison to the 5 Spot which we go to great lengths to reduce damping for a super supple action in the rocks while at lower trail type speeds. I checked with DW after reading E2s post yesterday which was not entirely correct. The pivot locations that you see are hard to apply 'logicly', this is a mathematics problem.

DW made it clear that both bikes are active under pedaling. I incorrectly thought that the pivot locations, within a given model were optomized for riders center of mass and that is why the DHR proto that E2 and others rode last spring seems to pedal 'firmer' than the 5 Spot when standing and wacking away at the pedals. DW pointed out that the riders center of gravity does not change nearly as much as one would think, as a dh rider stands to attack their butt goes back and head goes forward but the center is pretty close to a 5 Spot type rider churning along. If DW would not have punctured a lung a few weeks ago hitting a tree he would have explained that to E2 in Littlerock last weekend instead of my incorrect answer to the question on why the DHR pedaled so great standing up. The RFX will be closer in shock spec to the 5 Spot than a DHR of course so, if one stands and pounds like a hungry monkey, it will bob more than say a DHR mostly due to the fact it has less compression damping in general. Of course one can over damp an RFX or under damp a DHR, but when used within thier scope of performance that would be sketchy on the DHR and harsh on the RFX.

Sorry for the confusion, I better call E2 and share this knowledge!

DT

[turnerbikes]

( But E2@CC seem to have a really good point of the pivot placement for the DW Turners, where the difference in pivot location for the 5-Spot and the DHR does to an extend have some influence on the riding style of the bike.. I believe this does make some sense as both the 5-spot and DHR have different pivot locations and given that the pedaling force influence does change along with chain’s position on a given ring.. Looking at the current rendition of the RFX, as the lower pivot appears to be nearly horizontal at its sag point, the pedaling interference seems to be nullified by the frame design and keeps the suspension active.)
The BIGGEST difference between the 5 Spot and the DHR is that the DHR has a HUGE damper and loads of low speed compression damping capable of hitting BIG sh!te at mach speeds in comparison to the 5 Spot which we go to great lengths to reduce damping for a super supple action in the rocks while at lower trail type speeds. I checked with DW after reading E2s post yesterday which was not entirely correct. The pivot locations that you see are hard to apply 'logicly', this is a mathematics problem.

DW made it clear that both bikes are active under pedaling. I incorrectly thought that the pivot locations, within a given model were optomized for riders center of mass and that is why the DHR proto that E2 and others rode last spring seems to pedal 'firmer' than the 5 Spot when standing and wacking away at the pedals. DW pointed out that the riders center of gravity does not change nearly as much as one would think, as a dh rider stands to attack their butt goes back and head goes forward but the center is pretty close to a 5 Spot type rider churning along. If DW would not have punctured a lung a few weeks ago hitting a tree he would have explained that to E2 in Littlerock last weekend instead of my incorrect answer to the question on why the DHR pedaled so great standing up. The RFX will be closer in shock spec to the 5 Spot than a DHR of course so, if one stands and pounds like a hungry monkey, it will bob more than say a DHR mostly due to the fact it has less compression damping in general. Of course one can over damp an RFX or under damp a DHR, but when used within thier scope of performance that would be sketchy on the DHR and harsh on the RFX.

Sorry for the confusion, I better call E2 and share this knowledge!

DT

[scottryana]

I have hounded DT mercilessly about the new RFX. But it really seems like he has a vision for this bike and the projects that are in front of it! I have come to realize that there won't be a "shiny" new raw RFX under the Christmas tree for me this year, but I am really hoping that MAYBE next spring or early summer just in time for riding season and a couple of big trips.

I am 100% sold on the X12 142mmx12mm standard, after doing the Chris King conversion and running the DT Swiss 10mm RWS through bolt on my Flux.

I could really care less about the tapered vs 1.5" standard, I think both will have support in the future, so which ever one gets the bike to market the quickest. Additionally I think that with the trend of low bar heights, with a beefy headtube even a tapered inset headset could be a solid option!

I would love to see cable routing for an adjustable seatpost.

I loved the Interbike proto, if it rides as good as it looks, you can have my deposit now!

Ryan.

[Bikezilla]

Woah. Sorry to hear from DT that DW's on the DL.

I've traded momentum with enough trees to understand even the saplings don't move much.
Heal up man.

[wilks]

based on what i have been told no 2010 RFX until after ibike.

[Bikezilla]

I recall reading a very solid commitment that the bike will be available shortly after it's done.

[trailadvent]

Shaun, ta here I’ve had both the Spot and RFX both were 06s and DWL Spot will is more capable than my version was! Having ridden these bikes from one end of NZ to the other I can tell ya either would do what you want, in saying that the new Spot is more likely versatile for NZ if ya want one bike to charge hard and do it all!

You could save yourself a lot of hassle especially here which the US guys don’t get out side there market, we are very limited and it can be difficult with these multiple stds!

1: - 10mm TA at the rear and a DWL spot with a 160mm adj or 2: 160mm adj and a 140mm ta fork for lighter duties XC/Endurance, adventure 12hr etc would give you the harder end of AM and lighter end of trail even with the 160mm only option and a Fox 36 Talas eek did I say that ill keep your weight down and still be hard enough charging for that style fro riding through out NZ.

My choice leaning right now would be Spot Lyrik Coil Uturn Coil Shock, its amazing how the dynamics of the Spot change in that mode vs an air shock rear and fork front, few bikes can match this tunability HL,TNT or DW in the Turner lines by changing the shock damping to suit your needs or likes, I want coil for my Robo Cop body lol.

And the geo of the Spot with the 160mm at full travel will provide nice angles and still low BB!

The RFX for here unless ya real hard charger and the angles appeal more I can’t see why you’d not go for the Spot, its available it will be more cost effective here and its more versatile for NZ , I’m not detracting from the RFX at all, but we tend of have a lot of riding variety out our back door, there were days when I’d leave the RFX behind on a 4week road trip I did in 07 but never the Spot it did it all and went everywhere, I had a 140mm ta and 10mm ta rear end on mine, only lack of capability was the rider!

Based on that out of my current too 06s the RFX was my favorite though, be hard decision on the DWLs for me, the new Spot appeals more to me now based on changes I’ve been forced to go through, and I would want it for the versatility of repeating that road trip again hopefully in 2010.

Your choice and decision sometimes its not about the bike its about what turns and excites you!, It will be unique here, there’ll never be many RFX’s here but will be a growing Spot population for sure, choose ya Kool Aid!

As for the VPX argument, I don’t see any point comparing XC wheel paths axle paths to a 7inch or even DH rig, if ya not used to lots of travel then people’s view of efficiency is skewed, or unless ya have a direct comparison the advice is all very subjective, Krobs is probably closest, but until someone throws a leg it seems moot to me! But if ya an Intense fan, the VPX is a very efficient bike as is the SC V10 but if ya not used to that style of bike it would seem squishy, The IH Sunday is squishy to the other DW IH DWLs, yet is DWL they are not all equal for a reason as DT stated, they are tuned appropriately for there dynamics not riders wanting the same thing there 3” XC bikes does!


As recently shown theV10 won the flattest DH WC of all time and some were on 160mm travel bikes and still got spanked its relative! Add rider to that of course! So something to bear in mind! Course here I’ve seen guys here ride Bullets Giant Glory’s with Totems where same guys rip on SS hardtails RotoVegas for example is a classic you’ll see every type of rig ridden all over the forest there not any one particular bike, that’s NZ,for ya,. So if it suits then go with it and like DT said ride it till ya drop!


my 2c

[ShaunW]

DT,

Thanks for your explanation; it does kind of put things into perspective... Although you have suggested to ignore using the linkage to justify the suspension design, it hard not to apply some fuzzy logic to establish the suspension design. From as simple observation, the turner’s DW lower link (horizontal/parallel to the terrain) does looks as though it would have a vertical like travel path, as oppose to the VPP, which has a rear-wards swing lower link, hence the suspension path tends would be more rearwards biased. With these assumptions in mind and putting the 5-Spot design and your explanation into perspective, would it be safe to say that the 5-Spot would have a great all round small bump compliance and great active suspension under pedaling conditions; though with a minor square edge tradeoff?

Any how, it is going to be hard press not to like a Turner.. My only wish was that the RFX was ready sooner..

Thanks again,
Shaun.

[ShaunW]

Thanks TA,

Seems like the 5-Spot would be a great contender for sure for the sort of trails we have in NZ.. I had also made some inquires at my LBS, and they suggested that there is a possibility for me to demo the 5-Spot at Rotorua, I might check it out when I am there..

Having got a short travel bike as my main ride, I have gotta say that both the 5-Spot and Uzzi looks like an appealing option at the moment.. As the RFX is a fare way away.

In regards with the V10 winning the DH WC; well that is a tough call, Steve Peat is a great rider on any bike, he could have won it on a DHR too.. But it is noted that the VPP tends to be great on the flats, where pedaling traction is not too much of an issue, but when you throw in a technical climb, the VPP suspension will feel woody and have traction like a poo, on the short travel VPP anyways. But having said that, the Uzzi is still a bike to consider, given that it is not design for climbing (which is a VPP’s limitation).

Shaun.

[6thElement]

Originally Posted by Bikezilla

Woah. Sorry to hear from DT that DW's on the DL.

I've traded momentum with enough trees to understand even the saplings don't move much.
Heal up man.

I presume it's the crash he had at Highland while we were there a few weeks ago

Roll on the next DH season though

[trailadvent]

Originally Posted by ShaunW

Thanks TA,

Seems like the 5-Spot would be a great contender for sure for the sort of trails we have in NZ.. I had also made some inquires at my LBS, and they suggested that there is a possibility for me to demo the 5-Spot at Rotorua, I might check it out when I am there..

Having got a short travel bike as my main ride, I have gotta say that both the 5-Spot and Uzzi looks like an appealing option at the moment.. As the RFX is a fare way away.

In regards with the V10 winning the DH WC; well that is a tough call, Steve Peat is a great rider on any bike, he could have won it on a DHR too.. But it is noted that the VPP tends to be great on the flats, where pedaling traction is not too much of an issue, but when you throw in a technical climb, the VPP suspension will feel woody and have traction like a poo, on the short travel VPP anyways. But having said that, the Uzzi is still a bike to consider, given that it is not design for climbing (which is a VPP’s limitation).

Shaun.

No worris bud I did not realise you were keeping the other bike, the RotoVegas ride should def give ya a good feel, I think that demo had the 55RC3 on there so perfect, otherwise ya got good options with 2 rigs, Build a 160mm forked Spot or RFX later.

Ya I hear ya on the WC thing and agree but ya have to take into account what riders there choose to ride, and spread that across the riders strengths and weaknesses and results this last season I still think it was an amazing achievement by Peaty on a 10" rig hes an amazing rider and power is is specialty, but its still a testament to bike and setup and rider combined, when ya take into account its taken him a long time to get there, Hill and Brendy both rode Specialised SXs custom made for them and ran there Boxxer's in 7" Barl who is a WC specialist and suits this style of track, rode his 8" Mondraker which is one of the top bikes in the paddock at the mo very efficient DH rig, he won Maribor when no one thought he had a chance with a knee brace, he did that by being smart and efficient! At Canbrah he used a 36 Fox on front with a Spacer rammed into the head tube at the bottom to maintain the head angle of a triple crown fork, yet 2 SC V10s 1st and 2nd, and GT single pivot 3rd? All I'm saying efficiency is realitive, its not all about the link, just well designed bikes! And the right tool for the job


Oh also the DHR is also a very efficient pedaling rig, it took out the womens against some pretty tough competition!

On the VPP my experience is different to others, having ridden a couple fo VP Free's I acutally prefered over the VPX! I found VPP worked better for my style in the longer travel, I also found this with DWL to be honest, in part the DWL bikes in shorter travel were not setup exactly for me thouh to be fair!

Climbing on the VPFree for me, inVegas and local here was not an issue and as good as any bike Ive ever been on, not comparing DWL turner cause Ive not ridden one! So I don't aggree with that, maybe the smaller travl VPP bikes would be more like that when climbing, but I found the opposite on the VPFree! It was a killer bike!Another NZ favorite.

Enjoy the demo and write ya finding be god to hear ya thoughts.

[ShaunW]

TA,

Your feedback has been great, I will have to definitely have a write up once I give the 5-Spot a demo..

The VPP design sure does have it’s merits, I wouldn’t discount that.. Unless we have heaps of rock gardens in NZ trails, the 5-Spot or RFX DW sure looks like the bike to go for..

Ohh, the gt ain’t no single pivot, it is a floating BB design..

Shaun.

[slowrider]

I test rode the VP Tracer with 6" front and rear and the DW Spot with 5.5" front and rear and the only place the Intense seemed better was on the flats, otherwise it was a DW spot sweep. I'd hang on to what you have until you can test the DW RFX.

[turnerbikes]

The same thread over in the Intense forum is staying right at the top, and the RFX is in the proto type stage, I LOVE it, who woulda thunk that a non existant bike would generate so much attention? If I had a second engineer we could hyperdrive this thing and save a few months of next summer. Who has the winning lottery ticket??

DT

[JokerBoy]

you can always go on Dragons Den DT

http://www.cbc.ca/dragonsden/

[KRob]

Originally Posted by ShaunW

KRob,

Got some questions though, if the RFX rode like something between the 5-Spot and DHR, would it be right on the money? Is there any things you didnt like about the Uzzi..

SW

Well there's a lot of territory between the 5.5Spot and the DHR so that's kind of a tough question-- One Dave will have to answer ultimately. I'm willing to give up a bit of uphill efficiency (as long as it stays active and excels at ledgey, technical climbing) for plush, active, controlled DHR-like downhill performance. That may be a tough balancing act but I trust Dave to hit the right mix.

The UZZI was a pretty impressive bike but it didn't totally bowl me over. The only thing I didn't really like about it was the brand new Totem fork that seemed pretty non-compliant over the small stuff.

I didn't get a chance to do an extended, seated climb on it so I'm not sure if I'd have the same impression as tscheezy did, but it felt like it climbed really well on the small rolling climbs I did do and I was very impressed with the technical climbing prowess of the Tracer VP. That thing seemed to just claw its way up almost anything.

[turnerbikes]

Did you ride the FB Doc? How did it compare to the Uzzi? The Knolly? These are all in the same market, I wonder what you thought. Those 3 lined up would have been a great treat if I was not removing pedals and doing post ride interviews in Boulder City.

I have put some days on the RFX and it works amazing, DW knows his stuff. Little link this way- top link that, WTFKs? certainly very few, but I can tell you that to climb on the longer travel dw-link is an eye opener. There IS a reason that Darren has switched and Inkpad as well. They gave up 2nd gen, longer travel VPP for the 5 Spot 'cause they ride in rocks, up and down, that little ole 5 Spot must not suck when a couple of industry types can choose what ever they want and come away with dw bikes, imagine the possibility of FB and RFX.

Can someone paste that thread here?

DT

[mtb_biker]

Are there any pictures of the new RFX built up? Curious to see how it looks built up as there was only a rough frame at Interbike and computer renders are not as cool!

[CalEpic]

I would have loved for this to be a DW RFX but I wanted something now. No hate, still loving my Spot and there's my old HL RFX frame in the garage.

It will be interesting to ride them side by side when the RFX is out.

Cheers

[_dw]

Originally Posted by KRob

I'm willing to give up a bit of uphill efficiency (as long as it stays active and excels at ledgey, technical climbing) for plush, active, controlled DHR-like downhill performance. That may be a tough balancing act but I trust Dave to hit the right mix.

Actually, it's funny Rob, because this is one area where the dw-link design doesn't have a "balancing act"

When I develop dw-link suspensions for my partner's bikes, the specific areas that I manipulate to get that active performance over the rocks and roots also get us the best uphill (or flat ground) efficiency. That's in my opinion why the dw-link design stands out among suspension technologies and is loved by so many discerning riders.

The ability to have both active suspension performance and at the same time great efficiency is at the heart of the "set it and forget it"nature of the dw-link design.

[Dibbs_]

Originally Posted by _dw

Actually, it's funny Rob, because this is one area where the dw-link design doesn't have a "balancing act"

When I develop dw-link suspensions for my partner's bikes, the specific areas that I manipulate to get that active performance over the rocks and roots also get us the best uphill (or flat ground) efficiency. That's in my opinion why the dw-link design stands out among suspension technologies and is loved by so many discerning riders.

The ability to have both active suspension performance and at the same time great efficiency is at the heart of the "set it and forget it"nature of the dw-link design.

Amen to that, exactly what I've found on my DW Spot.

[FoShizzle]

Originally Posted by turnerbikes

The same thread over in the Intense forum is staying right at the top, and the RFX is in the proto type stage, I LOVE it, who woulda thunk that a non existant bike would generate so much attention? If I had a second engineer we could hyperdrive this thing and save a few months of next summer. Who has the winning lottery ticket??

DT

Dave, if i've told you once, i've told you a thousand times. Today is all about e-riding, not real-riding. On that note, Turner has still not gotten back to me with an answer to my request to be a sponsored e-rider...wtf?

[KRob]

Originally Posted by turnerbikes

Did you ride the FB Doc? How did it compare to the Uzzi? The Knolly? These are all in the same market, I wonder what you thought. Those 3 lined up would have been a great treat if I was not removing pedals and doing post ride interviews in Boulder City.

DT

Hey Dave. I did get a chance to ride the Firebird last year. It would've been cool to ride it back-to-back with the UZZI, my Del T, and the new RFX this year (keeping fingers crossed that it will be ready for next year's I-bike) .

To be fair, I should've ridden the FB again this year because I had a less-than satisfactory experience on it last year. It just wasn't that plush in the rough descents. I've heard enough people I trust (you and DW in particular) say otherwise that I am suspiciuos that the shock was not working properly. It climbed very well over rocky, techy stuff, was super efficient on smooth climbs, was very stiff laterally, and was an all-around beautifully built bike to boot..

Both those bikes (the new UZZI and the Firebird) felt snappier, lighter, and better for standing sprints (think Super D) and long climbs than my D-T. But for ugly, chunky, techy, droppy, Goat Camp, Holbert, Portal, Boneshaker-type descents I'll take the D-T any day.

If the new RFX will sprint and climb like the UZZI/Firebird and descend like my D-T as DW suggests, you will have at least one sale.


KRob-------> Willing and able RFX Prototype tester.

[-bb-]

Yeah... I'm a little late to this thread, but there is a LOT of gret info in here. I was a little concerned that the spot was a little too steep in front, but I think that it is either "spot"-on, or within .5 degrees of ideal.

CalEpic, I recognize that rock. Top of Lynx?