UCSC-What do we do now?

[Carl Hungus]

I joined about 30-40 people last night at the Seabright Brewery in Santa Cruz to discuss the future of the UCSC trails. State Parks Ranger Gary Brennan, the man behind the impending crackdown was there, as was CA IMBA guy Tom Ward. I think Tom Ward's presence at the meeting illustrated the importance of these trails to the greater mountain biking community. I don't have time to write a detailed blow by blow but I'll try to address the main talking points...

1) The Crackdown. It's coming this weekend and it's for real. The reasons for it are numerous. Too many injuries. Too many trails. Too many close calls with cars on Highway 9. Too many of us flaunting the fact that we are riding "illegal" trails. Gary Brennnan said that for the first time in about ten years Henry Cowell SP is fully staffed with rangers. According to Brennan, they will now be able to do what they feel they should have been doing all along...ticket people for riding "illegal" trails. He said they will NOT be standing at the bottom of every entrance waiting for riders. He alluded to the fact that riders may even receive warnings at first. But if you're riding those trails in the next couple of months and you see a ranger, don't be a surprised if you get a ticket. For those of you who don't live in Santa Cruz County and may not know this, the rangers at Henry Cowell have challenging jobs(my opinion). Dealing with homeless encampments and heroin and meth trafficking is a usual occurrence for them. I don't think they get off on busting mountain bikers. Unfortunately, I feel that WE in the mountain biking community have forced their hands here and WE need to assume some of the responsibility for this crackdown.

2)What's Next? Without going into a history lesson that I am not qualified to write, Ill just say that there were a fair number of people at last night's meeting that are very frustrated with the mountain bike access status quo in Santa Cruz county. A few people referred to last night's meeting as a "galvanizing moment". I realized that I myself need to do more. I know that many of you out there will hope that this whole issue goes away in a couple of months and you can return to riding these trails. I can't really argue with you. Unfortunately, I think that some day, whether it's sooner or later, this issue is going to have to be dealt with. Wouldn't it be cool if we could actually ride some of these trails without fearing a ticket? Hopefully, last night was just the beginning of a long conversation about the future of these trails. Will it be arduous? Yes. Will it be a long drawn out process? Yes. But if you've ever had the pleasure of riding these trails, don't you owe it to yourself to do what you can to see that at least some of these trails stick around? What do you think?

[HarryCallahan]

I was there, too. Good summary. I got an indication MBOSC is looking to meet soon with the district manager and will want interested parties to attend. I'd suggest joining MBOSC or ROMP.

[Carl Hungus]

Originally Posted by HarryCallahan

I'd suggest joining MBOSC or ROMP.

I've been a MBOSC/IMBA member for a couple of years now but other than one or two trail work days a year out at Demo, I've admittedly been pretty passive in my advocacy efforts. I'm hoping that starts to change. I owe a large part of my happiness as a human being to the trails up there behind campus. I'd like to see at least a few of them stick around.

[Stripes]

Thanks for the follow-up. I was hoping to make it, but I was working until 8:30pm last night I'll be renewing my MBOSC next paycheck.

[EDizzleVR6]

What can we do? I've only been living in santa cruz since sept., moved down here from sacramento area, and ive spent a significant time riding campus to realize its a mecca for mountain biking.
its all over?

[Swell Guy]

Originally Posted by Carl Hungus

I joined about 30-40 people last night at the Seabright Brewery in Santa Cruz to discuss the future of the UCSC trails.

[snip]

What do you think?

I think we should all just STFU, stop whining and close this thread down. Ride legal trails. You can have all the meetings you want, you ain't gonna open that area. Even if you do, it will be eons after you want it to, with trails sanitized way beyond recognition.

Thanks for the report. Give it a rest already and go ride somewhere else. You're just bringing unneeded attention to an already indefensible position. All this chest beating and wailing ain't gonna change anything.

[EDizzleVR6]

I was afraid of posts like this, after seeing the other thread about the flyers...
seriously carl, what can I do

[MTBShane]

Originally Posted by Swell Guy

I think we should all just STFU, stop whining and close this thread down. Ride legal trails. You can have all the meetings you want, you ain't gonna open that area. Even if you do, it will be eons after you want it to, with trails sanitized way beyond recognition.

Thanks for the report. Give it a rest already and go ride somewhere else. You're just bringing unneeded attention to an already indefensible position. All this chest beating and wailing ain't gonna change anything.

I think maybe you did not understand the reason for the post to start with. I see nothing wrong with trying to educate the community and give a first hand opinion of what happened at this meeting. This is supposed to be a free country, why shut down an entire thread for bringing attention to something that needs attention??? I dont understand?

[woogie11]

I will never understand how the birthplace of mountain biking can have such a negative stance against the sport. If ranger's are going to crack down, it should be on the people who deserve it. The most hikers I've ever seen there in one day was perhaps three, people go there to ride, not to hike. I've never had a run in or negative experience with a hiker. If they want to make money on these trails perhaps they should mandate permits/day passes. Imagine how many people buy bikes just so they can ride these trails? Not to mention how many people drive down there/stay there just to ride UCSC. This is completely unacceptable.

[ddraewwg]

Originally Posted by Swell Guy

I think we should all just STFU, stop whining and close this thread down. Ride legal trails. You can have all the meetings you want, you ain't gonna open that area. Even if you do, it will be eons after you want it to, with trails sanitized way beyond recognition.

Thanks for the report. Give it a rest already and go ride somewhere else. You're just bringing unneeded attention to an already indefensible position. All this chest beating and wailing ain't gonna change anything.

Someone's really angry. What's with the hate? This thread isn't screaming for people to ignore the rangers, say "F 'em" and ride the trails anyways. It's basically a realization that WE are part of the problem and WE need to be part of the solution. What's up your piehole?

You may be right about a lot of things: IF it's legalized, it may take years. IF it's legalized it may not be what WE envisioned (sanitized, fireroads, etc). I can totally see your point but I see UC as an exception to the other "illegal" trails that people ride. There are literally hundreds of people riding these trails every weekend. Companies like Ibis, Spesh, Santa Cruz, etc. test and ride there. It's not just one segment of riders, XC, FR, DH guys ride there. This area affects all riders. Heck, I see families out there with their children......i see guys out there on their cross bikes. I see women out there.....and let's face it, this sport is male dominated. To see PEOPLE....all kinds of people on these trails just makes it a completely different situation. Pretty much any kind of rider of all ages and abilities ride there. I'm not saying it was right for US to ride there.....yes, it's illegal but ranting about this chat when all it was about is being constructive is really immature.

I found it enlightening. An MTBR member realized that he needs to step up his game and you're being a total downer. It makes me realize that I have literally done NOTHING to help the mtn biking community......EVER. I admit it. This situation at UCSC makes me think twice.

Maybe you need a hug

[Stripes]

Originally Posted by MTBShane

I think maybe you did not understand the reason for the post to start with. I see nothing wrong with trying to educate the community and give a first hand opinion of what happened at this meeting. This is supposed to be a free country, why shut down an entire thread for bringing attention to something that needs attention??? I dont understand?

California is not a free country, and people think if they don't talk about something it will just go away. Life doesn't work that way.

I think this is a fine open thread. MBOSC had a meeting about it with the enforcing ranger and IMBA.

[Berkeley Mike]

As the "birthplace of mountain biking" we are also the birthplace of mountain bike advocacy. The Bicycle Trails Council of the East Bay was founded in 1987 by Michael Kelley and a dedicated group of volunteers who fought very hard to stave off the impending closure of almost all the bike trails in the East Bay. They are are the second oldest mountain bike advocacy group in the United States and one of the founding clubs of IMBA.

One of the main focal points was Joaquin Miller Park where bikes were banned in 1987. Through the concerted efforts of the BTCEB the access was returned. By the way, users also made efforts to rid the park of runners at one point as they disturbed the experience for the extant users.

In any case the closures were a response to the increase in the number of mountain bikers and their impact on the experience of trails users who previously had them all to themselves. When Joe, Steve, Joe, Gary and Charlie were riding Repak in the mid-70's who knew it would end up where it is today where any clown can careen through a trail and very often do.

It might be of interest to not that horses were banned from Tilden and Wildcat in the early 70's but that the Wildcat Horseman's Association had been formed 5 years earlier and they were able to get access returned.

Anyhow.....on a related note I was watching a movie the other night which took place in a small rural town in Wyoming. A main character was out riding her horse across the broad plain and I could not help but think that there would be no access issue there at all. There was so much room. We live at the edge of the Pacific plate, which, through subduction, creates all the wonderful hills and mountain we love so much. We have jammed 10 million people in the Bay Area only 20 miles inland from the Ocean and are home to some of the most dynamic industrial and educational institutions in the world with an economy rivaled by few. For all the negativity one hears about California people have been beating a path here since the Gold Rush and it has become a pretty crowded place. There are a lot of people here who want to keep it the way it used to be.

Does that help, Woogie?

[Prettym1k3]

Here's a message I sent around to some friends, just to add to what Carl said above:

-------------------------

Many of you know that as of February 1st, Rangers in the UCSC area (trails between Empire Grade and Highway 9, East of the UConn lot) have been passing out flyers. The flyers originally stated that as of Sunday, February 18th, the "Closed Trails" would be enforced and citations issued for anyone found mountain biking on said trails. That was a mistake. It is actually SUNDAY, February 15th. According to some MTBR research into the cost of tickets with the State of California the tickets can be upwards of $400.

There was an www.MBOSC.org meeting last night in Santa Cruz to discuss what to do. Multiple people showed up from MBOSC, along with many locals. But most importantly, Ranger Gary Brennan showed up, of his own free time, to discuss the matter. Here are some bullet points to give you an idea of what is happening, etc.:

-Believe it or not, the amount of rangers has, in fact, increased. Up until a few months ago, they had one full time ranger, and 1 part time/flex time ranger. They now have 5 full time rangers. They are in FULL FORCE now. This is the first time in 10-15 years they have been fully staffed.

-They are enforcing everything from drugs, alcohol, squatters, illegal fishing and, yes, mountain biking. Apparently meth and pot deals were going down very regularly near the main parking lot, and they are in an effort to do general "clean up" of the entire area.

-The cause of many of our woes is people dropping down onto Highway 9 in traffic. That single action is what has brought attention to the area. Not shuttling (although that is a problem with the local residents) and not trail/wildlife/plantlife damage (althought that's a main concern). Lagging, hanging out, and drinking beer draw lots of attention to what we do, and it doesn't help. And, of course, people getting hurt doesn't help us. They had two major injuries there in the past 2 months, and while that might not seem like a lot, it's enough to grab the rangers' attentions.

-Ranger Gary Brennan is a nice guy. If you ever run into him, thank him for meeting with the mountain bikers on February 9th at Seabright Brewery. He WANTS to see those trails open for us to ride, but it's his job to be the enforcement officer. He will be taking many of our complaints back to his superiors, so we'll see what happens after that. Ranger Brennan also knows the names of almost all of the trails (Z's, Magic Carpet, etc.). He's not stupid, and he knows what's going on. So watch yourself if you plan on breaking the rules and continuing to ride out there (I'm not recommending that, I'm just saying...)

-Many of the concerns regarding damage to the trails is not from people "dragging brake". It's actually from riding in bad weather (that seems to be the main concern). The secondary issue is people who are digging/raking new trails around fallen trees, etc., instead of cutting out the tree and continuing the trail as it aleady was.

-Between March and May both rangers and scientists will be out on the trails replacing signs that have been taken down by riders, and recording data on wildlife, trail damage, etc. The rangers know that the signs will probably be torn down, and that people will continue to ride there. But during that time frame, they will be hiking all of the trails, and replacing signs. Ranger Brennan mentioned nothing about replacing fencing (barbed wire, chain link, wood posts, etc.), but that's a possibility.

-Brennan mentioned that citations will be issused, but they will not be "going out and looking for mountain bikers". Basically, if they see you drop down onto Highway 9, or they see you cutting into the illegal trails from the fireroad, they'll stop you.

-Lastly, Brennan said that until you're digging, doing obvious damage, etc., they will probably perform a Field ID before issuing any citations. So, you may get one warning before getting a citation, or you may just get a $400 citation first time out.

MBOSC has been working on getting places in Castle Rock, Grey Whale, and Fall Creek open for almost 2 1/2 years, but the county simply won't even look at proposals because they don't believe that enough people want new trails to be opened. For instance, only about 30-40 people showed up last night at the MBOSC meeting, and that's the most they've had in a very, very long time. How sad!

If you want to help, the things you can do is show up to meetings like last night, and show up at City Council meetings to voice your opinion. Write letters and making phone calls does work. It just takes time. Instant results simply do not happen in the opening of new trails. But hard work does pay off.

And remember... the people who want those trails closed ALWAYS show up to meetings. ALWAYS.

[mrtoadsc]

I have really enjoyed reading this thread.

I'm glad that the community is interested in this issue. As an advocate and a recent US citizen it is my firm belief that we can use the democratic process to create our own reality. Rules that have been written to prohibit mountain biking can be unwritten if there is enough engagement.

There are also opportunities in Santa Cruz county to work with other land management agencies like BLM, the County and private land owners to get the type of trails (DH/FR) that we want. It's not going to be soon or easy but money and voices have a way of speeding up the process.

The following is an abridged version of the meeting minutes I sent to the MBOSC list.

Thank you all for attending the meeting on Monday!


Attendees

* Ranger Gary Brennan, Henry Cowell State Park
* Tom Ward, IMBA CA http://imba.com
* A few dozen concerned mountain bikers

Henry Cowell State Park enforcement program

Ranger Gary Brennan giving the background and the justification for the new enforcement program.

* Citations for riding in Henry Cowell State Park between UC and Hwy 9 will start Sunday February 15th. Not February 18th in an older flyer.

* Rangers staffing levels have been filled, issues of biker rescues, complaints from neighbors about noise and garbage.

* Gary received a lot of messages and phone calls against the implication that mountain bikers were responsible for the garbage. Call us poachers but not litterers.

* Resource ecologists and archeologists will be evaluating the area this spring to do an inventory and an environmental assessment.

* The enforcement program in Pogonip by the City had the effect of moving homeless and drug dealing into the Rincon parking lot. This is a real issue.

Many questions and much discussion from the audience. Recanting of history of riding in Santa Cruz goes back to 1983 when there were no bike policies. Established order of politically savvy hikers, conservationists and equestrians changed the rules to exclude bikes. Worked with the system and the process over the years to change the policies and were invited to the table when new lands are acquired. Progress was made.

Frustration with the slow process, lack of State resources, staff turnover and lack of partners within the State Parks system. Frustration with the ease at which opposition groups has shut down these initiatives has created a sense of disillusionment within the responsible mountain biking community. Lack of enforcement in open space created a culture of riders who create their own reality and know how to mange sustainable trails. Responsible mountain bikers willing to accept the fact that mountain biking is an underground activity in Santa Cruz.

Secret stash becomes too popular with interlopers who do not have the same respect for the community and open space. Trails proliferate. No guidance or management. Trails are ad hoc and everywhere. Anything goes. Concussions, impaling, helicopters, neighbor complaints. Rangers.

Tom Ward leads a discussion on the future.

* This is a golden opportunity since the attention of the mountain biking community is energized. What should we do about it?

* Despite the horrible economic climate that the State is in District Superintendents are faced with making decisions on where to focus scarce resources.

* A decision was made to staff ranger positions over a trail co-ordinator or resource ecologist. So enforcement became a higher priority over opening new trails. The challenge is to make the recreational needs of mountain biking a high priority to warrant State Parks resources.

* Legalizing the Cowell/UC9 trails is a hard battle. Perhaps a trail or two (or three). Long term goal.

* Short term: There is an existing proposal on submitted to District back in November 2006. The trail conversion proposal http://mbosc.org/2006/11/trail_propo...final_Ver2.pdf
is the the most expedient way to get legitimate trails in the local State Parks. 24 miles of single track and 12 miles of fire road in Big Basin, Castle Rock and Fall Creek.

* Medium term, opening the Wilder/Gray Whale trails will take a little more effort and funding. http://mbosc.org/advocacy/wilder.html

* Medium term, the inland of Coast Dairies represents the best opportunity for the future of Santa Cruz mountain biking. http://mbosc.org/advocacy/coastdairies.html

Action Items

We request that District Superintendent Chet Bardo have an open dialog with mountain bikers. As a public servant and accountable to state taxpayers and local constituents we ask that you listen to the concerns of the mountain biking community.

We are willing to become partners and offer our trail building expertise and labour. We can create sustainable trails which are ecologically feasible, enjoyable and safe. We are willing to negotiate for shared access to trails to mitigate other trail user concerns.

You may choose the time and place for the dialog but we request that you address this in a timely manner and where the community can reasonably attend. A Sunday afternoon in the park would work.

AI: MBOSC writes a letter to Chet Bardo requesting an open dialog with
mountain bikers

AI: Tom to provide the contact information for Ted Jackson (title?) and State Parks Director Ruth Coleman

AI: Mountain biking community: please support our efforts to create more legitimate riding opportunities in Santa Cruz county. Join IMBA, MBOSC, ROMP, MORCA or your local advocacy group.

Acknowledgments

Thanks to Ranger Gary Brennan for attending and subjecting himself to the barbs and arrows and handling the situation with grace.

Thanks to Tom Ward for making the trek from Sacramento to attend the meeting.

Thanks for Daryl B for providing the amp and wireless mics.

Thanks to Charlie Meehan and the staff of Seabright Brewery for the venue, the beer and the great hospitality.

Thanks to all of you in the community that showed up to support of mountain biking in Santa Cruz!

Thanks to Sebasien's IPA for getting me though these minutes.

[snowjnky]

Originally Posted by Swell Guy

I think we should all just STFU, stop whining and close this thread down. Ride legal trails. You can have all the meetings you want, you ain't gonna open that area. Even if you do, it will be eons after you want it to, with trails sanitized way beyond recognition.

Thanks for the report. Give it a rest already and go ride somewhere else. You're just bringing unneeded attention to an already indefensible position. All this chest beating and wailing ain't gonna change anything.

I agree ...except for riding the illegal trail.
I don't think it is helpful to have meetings about illegal trails. Leave it alone, let it be, let the circle of life come around; the less attention the better

[knobbyknees]

Mark, thanks for setting up the meeting. I really wanted to attend but ended up sick and with a sprained ankle, and in no shape for the drive over the hill. Let me know how I can help.

Patty

[HarryCallahan]

Originally Posted by snowjnky

I agree ...except for riding the illegal trail.
I don't think it is helpful to have meetings about illegal trails. Leave it alone, let it be, let the circle of life come around; the less attention the better

Agreed that it is not good to publicize illegal trails.

But in this case, there's a bigger picture here. Check out the post above yours by Mr. Toad.

[monkies]

Originally Posted by Prettym1k3

Write letters and making phone calls does work. It just takes time. Instant results simply do not happen in the opening of new trails. But hard work does pay off.

And remember... the people who want those trails closed ALWAYS show up to meetings. ALWAYS.

I just wrote a letter to City Council the other day. Very true, complainers on community boards (like retired people who like to complain) will always be heard because a lot of meetings happen when the majority of us are at work, coming back from work, or picking up kids. Letters help, because they'll know we exist and it isn't a 1 sided argument.

[his dudeness]

Guess we'll all have to find another illegal spot in the hills to illegally build and ride trails.

[Prettym1k3]

Originally Posted by HarryCallahan

Agreed that it is not good to publicize illegal trails.

But in this case, there's a bigger picture here. Check out the post above yours by Mr. Toad.

Not to mention that mentioning illegal trails that aren't well known or enforced is one thing. But the cat's out of the bag now, and EVERYONE knows. So, NOW is the time to talk about it. Not when, in 5 years, the Rangers aren't enforcing the trails anymore, and people start riding there again.

[snowjnky]

Originally Posted by Prettym1k3

Not to mention that mentioning illegal trails that aren't well known or enforced is one thing. But the cat's out of the bag now, and EVERYONE knows. So, NOW is the time to talk about it. Not when, in 5 years, the Rangers aren't enforcing the trails anymore, and people start riding there again.

The cat has been out of the bag...
My advice: Let the rangers enforce the code; don't make it a big deal or put them on the defensive. They have to satisfy others i.e. the public, complaining parties or their bosses.
If this was a fight that could be won I would say "lets do it"; shoot I would take the lead. This a losing cause. I am sure that the the rangers could care less if bikes became permitted in this area they just have to do their job. Let them do it with out a fight and once they did their due diligence it will be back to normal. Unless we(Mountain Bikers) can win the fight we should start the fight, once we jump in the ring there is no turning back.

An idea that I did have is do somehow petion or lobby for a code similar to the way weed is treated in Santa Cruz:

9.84.020 PURPOSE.
The purpose of this chapter is:
(1) to make investigations, citations, arrests, property seizures, and prosecutions for adult marijuana offenses the lowest law enforcement priority for the city of Santa Cruz;
(2) to establish a city policy supporting changes in state and federal laws that support a system of taxation and regulation for adult use of marijuana; and
(3) to transmit notification of the enactment of this chapter to state and federal elected officials who represent the city of Santa Cruz.
(Ord. 2006-27 (part), 2006).
9.84.030 FINDINGS.
(1) The federal government’s war on drugs has failed.
(2) Santa Cruz should determine its marijuana policies locally, not hand them over to the federal Drug Enforcement Administration.
(3) Otherwise law-abiding adults are being arrested and imprisoned for nonviolent marijuana offenses, which is clogging courts and jails in California.
(4) Each year California spends over $150 million of taxpayer money enforcing marijuana laws.
(5) Law enforcement resources would be better spent fighting serious and violent crimes.
(6) Making adult marijuana offenses Santa Cruz’s lowest law enforcement priority will reduce the city’s spending on law enforcement and punishment.
(7) Decades of arresting millions of marijuana users have failed to control marijuana use or reduce its availability.
(8) Recreational marijuana users can still be productive citizens that work and pay taxes.
(9) It is the hope of the citizens of Santa Cruz that the federal and California state governments will change the laws to tax and regulate marijuana, thus eliminating the problems and costs caused by marijuana prohibition and raising revenues for vital public services.

Change a few words and:
9.84.020 PURPOSE.
The purpose of this chapter is:
(1) to make investigations, citations, arrests, property seizures, and prosecutions for adult Mountain Biking offenses the lowest law enforcement priority for the city of Santa Cruz;
(2) to establish a city policy supporting changes in state and federal laws that support a system of taxation and regulation for adult use of Mountain Biking ; and
(3) to transmit notification of the enactment of this chapter to state and federal elected officials who represent Henry Cowell State Park

(Ord. 2006-27 (part), 2006).
9.84.030 FINDINGS.
(1) The State’s war on bikes has failed.
(2) Henry Cowell State Park should determine its Mountain Biking policies locally, not hand them over to the State of California
(3) Otherwise law-abiding adults are being issued citations for nonviolent Mountain Biking offenses, which is clogging courts and jails in California.
(4) Each year California spends over a lot of taxpayer money enforcing Mountain Biking laws.
(5) Law enforcement resources would be better spent fighting serious and violent crimes.
(6) Making adult Mountain Biking offenses Henry Cowell State Park. lowest law enforcement priority will reduce the State’s spending on law enforcement and punishment.
(7) Three decades of citing thousands of Mountain Biking users have failed to control Mountain Biking use or reduce its availability.
(8) Recreational Mountain Bike users can still be productive citizens that work and pay taxes.
(9) It is the hope of the citizens of Santa Cruz County that the federal and California state governments will change the laws to de-regulate Mountain Biking , thus eliminating the problems and costs caused by Mountain Biking prohibition and raising revenues for vital public services.
©©

[rj2]

Originally Posted by snowjnky

(7) Three decades of citing thousands of Mountain Biking users have failed to control Mountain Biking use or reduce its availability.
(8) Recreational Mountain Bike users can still be productive citizens that work and pay taxes©©

I'm getting the munchies for some sweet ST.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

[Carl Hungus]

Originally Posted by snowjnky

Leave it alone, let it be, let the circle of life come around; the less attention the better

As I alluded to in my first post, this is a valid point of view. Up until news of this "Crackdown" I felt the same way actually. I'm afraid though we've now reached the point where pretending WE don't ride there is no longer effective. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll be very clear in saying that I do not have "the answer" nor am I an expert on any of this. I realize that writing a few words on a message board isn't going to solve this issue. At the same time, the people that participate in this message board (and youtube, ridemonkey, etc.) have to share some of the responsibility for the recent crackdown and the future of those trails...myself included. I figured this was a logical place to begin the discussion, ya know? Maybe I am wrong and I'm not above admitting that.

As an aside...did Grey Whale trails get opened up because people just "STFU" years ago? What about Braille trail at Demo? Was that made legal through people just burying their heads in the sand? "Illegal" trails can be made "legal". Can WE save every trail at UCSC? Probably not, but I think WE can save some. Again, maybe I am wrong.

[Nine]

Originally Posted by rj2

I'm getting the munchies for some sweet ST.

Not that there's anything wrong with that.

Well said rj2, but be careful. Riding MTBs does make you hungry, laugh uncontrolably, and is a gateway recreational activity. Pretty soon you'll need to ride more miles to
achieve that first ride feeling and before you know it you will only be downhilling it.

[Nine]

Originally Posted by Carl Hungus

As I alluded to in my first post, this is a valid point of view. Up until news of this "Crackdown" I felt the same way actually. I'm afraid though we've now reached the point where pretending WE don't ride there is no longer effective. Maybe I'm wrong. I'll be very clear in saying that I do not have "the answer" nor am I an expert on any of this. I realize that writing a few words on a message board isn't going to solve this issue. At the same time, the people that participate in this message board (and youtube, ridemonkey, etc.) have to share some of the responsibility for the recent crackdown and the future of those trails...myself included. I figured this was a logical place to begin the discussion, ya know? Maybe I am wrong and I'm not above admitting that.

As an aside...did Grey Whale trails get opened up because people just "STFU" years ago? What about Braille trail at Demo? Was that made legal through people just burying their heads in the sand? "Illegal" trails can be made "legal". Can WE save every trail at UCSC? Probably not, but I think WE can save some. Again, maybe I am wrong.

All kidding aside, I believe you are right on the mark here, Carl. If you don't speak up somewhere we will all be riding the trails that the 'other' groups think we should be allowed to ride.

I live near Santa Teresa Park, and although it isn't the most prestigeous set of trails, they didn't allow riding on anything in there in the early 80s. There was one fireroad on the north sde that totalled a whopping 1 mile loop as I recall. Now the entire park is open for bikes and they have even added trails.

[mrtoadsc]

Originally Posted by snowjnky

The cat has been out of the bag...
...
If this was a fight that could be won I would say "lets do it"; shoot I would take the lead. This a losing cause. I am sure that the the rangers could care less if bikes became permitted in this area they just have to do their job. Let them do it with out a fight and once they did their due diligence it will be back to normal. Unless we(Mountain Bikers) can win the fight we should start the fight, once we jump in the ring there is no turning back.

An idea that I did have is do somehow petion or lobby for a code similar to the way weed is treated in Santa Cruz:

This is a losing cause because people like you have given up before the fight has started. At the same time you offer some constructive advice so you must be conflicted. I hope the optimist inside you can win over the pessimist.

I probably know more about Santa Cruz County trail politics, land use and mountain bike trails than anyone on this board (except perhaps Patty). If there is someone who knows more than I would love to meet them.

If anyone should give up the fight then it should be me. I don't get paid for advocacy, nor am I in the bike industry so it's definitely not in my economic interest to continue to pursue legitimate trail access for mountain bikes. I suppose it would be easier to give up and just ride where I want and stick my head in the sand and say "if only" a lot. I suppose I would be content, pay my fines and I would have a lot more free time to watch TV or play video games.

Most people's experience of Santa Cruz mountain biking is UC9 so that's all they see. I see a lot more potential county wide. Did you know there are trails that go from Santa Cruz to Big Basin? Did you know there are trails that go from Skyline to the ocean? Bonny Doon to the ocean? Did you know there is 10,000 acres of private land near Bonny Doon? Did you know that there is 6,000 acres of land that will be handed to BLM (Better Living through Mountain Biking) within the year? Did you know there is about 1,500-2,000 acres of unmanaged State Parks land closed off to the public because they don't have the resources to manage it. We could turn any of these places into the next mountain biking paradise.

I'm just a resident of Santa Cruz County and a father. This is my home and I don't plan to leave. Mountain biking is my passion and following this passion has led me to Vancouver, California, my wife and Santa Cruz. I love this sport and I would like to see my adopted town succeed economically. All I see is the unfulfilled potential for mountain biking in Santa Cruz and want to change the system in our favor.

I don't spent a lot of time on advocacy so it's just a hobby to me. The process moves slow so the pace is fine. If there were hundreds of mountain bikers who "spent a little time on advocacy as a hobby" then the sum total would represent a significant amount of time and effort. Think of those killer african ants eating large mammals and you can picture that many hands make light work of a task.

It's not going to be quick, cheap or easy but it can be achievable. Give me a lever big enough and I can move the world. Yes we can! Yes we can!

[MTBShane]

Well said!!!

[snowjnky]

Originally Posted by Carl Hungus

As an aside...did Grey Whale trails get opened up because people just "STFU" years ago? What about Braille trail at Demo? Was that made legal through people just burying their heads in the sand? "Illegal" trails can be made "legal". Can WE save every trail at UCSC? Probably not, but I think WE can save some. Again, maybe I am wrong.

maybe the fire road...the if there was only one jurisdiction involved It would be more likely. Once again this is just one opinion of many. good luck and hopefully you can do more good than damage.

I going to go ride **** ******* in Los Gatos it's not bad after the rain

[Gregg K]

Originally Posted by woogie11

I will never understand how the birthplace of mountain biking can have such a negative stance against the sport. If ranger's are going to crack down, it should be on the people who deserve it. The most hikers I've ever seen there in one day was perhaps three, people go there to ride, not to hike. I've never had a run in or negative experience with a hiker. If they want to make money on these trails perhaps they should mandate permits/day passes. Imagine how many people buy bikes just so they can ride these trails? Not to mention how many people drive down there/stay there just to ride UCSC. This is completely unacceptable.

POPULATION. There were a lot of things that used to be there that are no longer, including me.

[snowjnky]

Originally Posted by mrtoadsc

This is a losing cause because people like you have given up before the fight has started. .

People like me spend their time fighting health care cost and workers rights ...my bad
But really I would love to help IF there is hope...
I have plenty of advocacy experience and I love Mountain Biking ...PM me
I will now practice what I preach and STFU

[SVSocrates]

I can't really show up to meetings (I live on the peninsula and work evenings), but I want to help. I joined the FaceBook group for MBOSC. I will also join them with $$$. What else can I do?

[bigpete61]

Originally Posted by mrtoadsc

This is a losing cause because people like you have given up before the fight has started. At the same time you offer some constructive advice so you must be conflicted. I hope the optimist inside you can win over the pessimist.

I probably know more about Santa Cruz County trail politics, land use and mountain bike trails than anyone on this board (except perhaps Patty). If there is someone who knows more than I would love to meet them.

If anyone should give up the fight then it should be me. I don't get paid for advocacy, nor am I in the bike industry so it's definitely not in my economic interest to continue to pursue legitimate trail access for mountain bikes. I suppose it would be easier to give up and just ride where I want and stick my head in the sand and say "if only" a lot. I suppose I would be content, pay my fines and I would have a lot more free time to watch TV or play video games.

Most people's experience of Santa Cruz mountain biking is UC9 so that's all they see. I see a lot more potential county wide. Did you know there are trails that go from Santa Cruz to Big Basin? Did you know there are trails that go from Skyline to the ocean? Bonny Doon to the ocean? Did you know there is 10,000 acres of private land near Bonny Doon? Did you know that there is 6,000 acres of land that will be handed to BLM (Better Living through Mountain Biking) within the year? Did you know there is about 1,500-2,000 acres of unmanaged State Parks land closed off to the public because they don't have the resources to manage it. We could turn any of these places into the next mountain biking paradise.

I'm just a resident of Santa Cruz County and a father. This is my home and I don't plan to leave. Mountain biking is my passion and following this passion has led me to Vancouver, California, my wife and Santa Cruz. I love this sport and I would like to see my adopted town succeed economically. All I see is the unfulfilled potential for mountain biking in Santa Cruz and want to change the system in our favor.

I don't spent a lot of time on advocacy so it's just a hobby to me. The process moves slow so the pace is fine. If there were hundreds of mountain bikers who "spent a little time on advocacy as a hobby" then the sum total would represent a significant amount of time and effort. Think of those killer african ants eating large mammals and you can picture that many hands make light work of a task.

It's not going to be quick, cheap or easy but it can be achievable. Give me a lever big enough and I can move the world. Yes we can! Yes we can!

Well said. You are the man.
As a religious man mountain biking is my second religion.
Thank you for your inspiration, I just donated to IMBA & ROMP.

We all have to start this uphill battle some time.

[Stripes]

Originally Posted by mrtoadsc

If anyone should give up the fight then it should be me. I don't get paid for advocacy, nor am I in the bike industry so it's definitely not in my economic interest to continue to pursue legitimate trail access for mountain bikes.

This brings up a very good point and resource we should utilize: the bike industry in our backyard. I have a contact at Specialized for their advocacy group. I'm going to get her in touch with you. She does get paid for this.

I'm hoping other companies might also be interested in helping out.

[javaforce]

Has anyone considered creating an IMBA action alert for improving mountain bike access in the Santa Cruz region?

It would be great to see much of what mrtoadsc wrote in an IMBA action alert.

[no1ukno]

Thanks to those who facilitated attended the meeting and took the time to pass along a great deal of information that is useful and important to us all. I am sincerely grateful! I wasn't there but I get it.

[nativeson]

..just curious if you know what the campus long range development plan has in store for upper campus? fuel break rd from applied sciences up towards twin gates?

[HarryCallahan]

Originally Posted by nativeson

..just curious if you know what the campus long range development plan has in store for upper campus? fuel break rd from applied sciences up towards twin gates?

It should be on the web. One thing folks don't get is that the LRDP functions like a general plan; it's a map for envisioning how future growth will be laid out, if and when it is funded and happens.

[nativeson]

cool, just briefly scanning the document looks like the majority of the land lying west to northwest along chiquapin rd is either designated protected landscape and/or campus resource land. but as we all know we are supposedly "infringing" on native habitats riding in questioned areas. will the enforcement occur on the ucsc side, looks like a lot of the trails being enforced lie in cowell?

great maps in the documents that designate land use and area boundaries.

http://lrdp.ucsc.edu/FinalDraft2005l...7-06draft).pdf

http://lrdp.ucsc.edu/FinalDraft2005l...7-06draft).pdf

[Carl Hungus]

Originally Posted by nativeson

cool, just briefly scanning the document looks like the majority of the land lying west to northwest along chiquapin rd is either designated protected landscape and/or campus resource land. but as we all know we are supposedly "infringing" on native habitats riding in questioned areas. will the enforcement occur on the ucsc side, looks like a lot of the trails being enforced lie in cowell?

Kinda interesting you bring this up because it seemed like even Gary Brennan didn't know exactly where Henry Cowell ended and UCSC began and vice versa. I guess that's one of the reasons the whole situation is unique. He did say, as was mentioned earlier, that they will be basically walking the entire area and possibly establishing those property lines once again.

[mrtoadsc]

post deleted

[mrtoadsc]

Originally Posted by stripes

This brings up a very good point and resource we should utilize: the bike industry in our backyard. I have a contact at Specialized for their advocacy group. I'm going to get her in touch with you. She does get paid for this.

I'm hoping other companies might also be interested in helping out.

Thanks for the offer. I have met "D" on many occasions and she has been an amazing supporter of local bike advocacy. I understood that she was taking a leave from Specialized last year. Do you know if she's back?

We have the support of the local bike industry and we have been corresponding over the past week since this news broke.

[Rex_Skidmore]

Wet, soggy, rutty, slippery gnar gnar. It's getting trashed from wet riding.



OT: Is Angelina Jolie a Steelers fan?

[Felton_Flyer]

Originally Posted by Rex_Skidmore

Wet, soggy, rutty, slippery gnar gnar. It's getting trashed from wet riding.

true - was up there for my evening stroll yesterday and it is a soupy mess. noticed the only fresh tracks through the slop were of the motocross type ... not to throw fuel onto this fire, but it seems there is a local moto punk that has taken to cutting down fences and riding his little 50cc up there

Originally Posted by Rex_Skidmore

OT: Is Angelina Jolie a Steelers fan?

could be - she's been Steelin' my libido for years now (hot, so hot =)

[Prettym1k3]

Unconfirmed reports that two riders just got cited.

Unconfirmed reports that there are dozers on a certain jump trail tearing things down as we speak.

If people are getting cited on a mid-Thursday afternoon, wonder what it'll be like this weekend.

[kabayan]

Da good: Once upon a time, Braille was illegal
Da bad: A lot of hope and not much else emerged from the Skeggs meetings of yesteryear
Da ugly: A mind meld between the optimism of youth and the wisdom of experience

But seriously folks, next time someone stops into their SC bike shop, let them know wassup. Voices and letters from local businesses are louder and go further than those from 10,20,30 disgruntled weekend warriors. Just last week, I tried to engage the manager from the El Pollo Loco down the street, and he promised to bring it up with corporate

[Lone_Rider74]

they should extend the non-enforcement period since it rained out last weekend

[Prettym1k3]

Originally Posted by Prettym1k3

Unconfirmed reports that two riders just got cited.

Unconfirmed reports that there are dozers on a certain jump trail tearing things down as we speak.

If people are getting cited on a mid-Thursday afternoon, wonder what it'll be like this weekend.

Not sure about the tickets... as I haven't heard or seen anything further.

But I know from a guy who knows through a guy who's uncle's daughter's best friend's mother saw the jump trail, and everything is still there and hasn't been touched. That guy also told me that is not a single NEW sign on the trails, no new fencing, nor any evidence of maintenance, closure, or change.

[his dudeness]

Originally Posted by Prettym1k3

Not sure about the tickets... as I haven't heard or seen anything further.

But I know from a guy who knows through a guy who's uncle's daughter's best friend's mother saw the jump trail, and everything is still there and hasn't been touched. That guy also told me that is not a single NEW sign on the trails, no new fencing, nor any evidence of maintenance, closure, or change.

Guess that means that the coast is clear. Lets go poach boys and girls!

[HarryCallahan]

We had a frigging monsoon last weekend. I was up and down 9 a few times on various errands. Saw no riders, no ranger vehicles, no one parked in any of the turnouts. It would be nice to think that folks had the good sense to stay off wet trails of any legal status, particularly in areas as erosion and slide prone as the Santa Cruz mountains. I remember after one big downpour a few years ago seeing a bike stunt / bridge in pieces at the bottom of a slide on 9.

I State Parks is going to ticket riders, imagine the ticket if they catch you digging or building. I bet the fine is steep.

[his dudeness]

Originally Posted by HarryCallahan

We had a frigging monsoon last weekend. I was up and down 9 a few times on various errands. Saw no riders, no ranger vehicles, no one parked in any of the turnouts. It would be nice to think that folks had the good sense to stay off wet trails of any legal status, particularly in areas as erosion and slide prone as the Santa Cruz mountains. I remember after one big downpour a few years ago seeing a bike stunt / bridge in pieces at the bottom of a slide on 9.

I State Parks is going to ticket riders, imagine the ticket if they catch you digging or building. I bet the fine is steep.

It most likely will as it's state park property... When I lived in the East Bay there were secret trails built into the hills, after the East Bay Regional parks found them they started patrolling and ticketing riders... $200 for riding. If you got caught with a shovel, hammer, trowel, clippers, etc. they would ticket you for building and damaging the ecosystem... $1500 I believe was the lowest fine you'd get for building and it went up pretty steep from there.

[ARider]

Originally Posted by his dudeness

It most likely will as it's state park property... When I lived in the East Bay there were secret trails built into the hills, after the East Bay Regional parks found them they started patrolling and ticketing riders... $200 for riding. If you got caught with a shovel, hammer, trowel, clippers, etc. they would ticket you for building and damaging the ecosystem... $1500 I believe was the lowest fine you'd get for building and it went up pretty steep from there.

Don't forget about the Gravy wheels dude who almost (did?) do jail time for trail building in Marin area.

No bueno!

[mrtoadsc]

As discussed at the last meeting, we plan to request an open dialog between the local state parks representative and the mountain biking community. We mailed the following letter to District Superintendent Chet Bardo last Thursday:

http://www.mbosc.org/2009/02/2009_02...pen_dialog.pdf

I will follow up with Superintendent Bardo by phone later this week.

Our short term objectives are to find a date and a venue to host the dialog. We would like to hold this dialog in mid to late March or early April. Louden Nelson Community Center on an evening looks like a possibility: http://www.ci.santa-cruz.ca.us/pr/nelson/

We hope that we can recruit 100-200 mountain bikers (more would be better!) to show up for the dialog with Chet. We should be forthright in asking for access to existing lands. There are at least two projects in our local parks district which are favorable to mountain
bikers (outlined in the above letter).

Thank you for your patience and support!

[Zen_Turtle]

Originally Posted by mrtoadsc

As discussed at the last meeting, we plan to request an open dialog between the local state parks representative and the mountain biking community. We mailed the following letter to District Superintendent Chet Bardo last Thursday:

http://www.mbosc.org/2009/02/2009_02...pen_dialog.pdf

I will follow up with Superintendent Bardo by phone later this week.

Our short term objectives are to find a date and a venue to host the dialog. We would like to hold this dialog in mid to late March or early April. Louden Nelson Community Center on an evening looks like a possibility: http://www.ci.santa-cruz.ca.us/pr/nelson/

We hope that we can recruit 100-200 mountain bikers (more would be better!) to show up for the dialog with Chet. We should be forthright in asking for access to existing lands. There are at least two projects in our local parks district which are favorable to mountain
bikers (outlined in the above letter).

Thank you for your patience and support!

Nice. Keep us posted.
I plan to attend.
ZT

[Ride&Surf]

Originally Posted by mrtoadsc

As discussed at the last meeting, we plan to request an open dialog between the local state parks representative and the mountain biking community. We mailed the following letter to District Superintendent Chet Bardo last Thursday:

http://www.mbosc.org/2009/02/2009_02...pen_dialog.pdf

I will follow up with Superintendent Bardo by phone later this week.

Our short term objectives are to find a date and a venue to host the dialog. We would like to hold this dialog in mid to late March or early April. Louden Nelson Community Center on an evening looks like a possibility: http://www.ci.santa-cruz.ca.us/pr/nelson/

We hope that we can recruit 100-200 mountain bikers (more would be better!) to show up for the dialog with Chet. We should be forthright in asking for access to existing lands. There are at least two projects in our local parks district which are favorable to mountain
bikers (outlined in the above letter).

Thank you for your patience and support!

What was Chet Bardo's response when you followed up via phone?

[mrtoadsc]

Originally Posted by Ride&Surf

What was Chet Bardo's response when you followed up via phone?

Funny you should mention that. I just summarized and posted the response to the mbosc public list which I will paste here.

Greetings,

Last Wednesday I had a conversation with the District Superintendent
Chet Bardo for the Santa Cruz area State Parks to follow up from the
letter we submitted
(http://www.mbosc.org/2009/02/2009_02...pen_dialog.pdf)
to him and his two superiors. We made a request for an open dialog
between Chet and the mountain biking community so that he can hear our
concerns for additional access. The objective of the open dialog was
to see movement on our existing proposals. This letter was really
effective in getting his attention and he gladly took my call. We had
an amiable conversation for about an hour.

The bottom line was that Chet said NO to an open dialog but I'm
pleased to announce that we have achieved our objective without having
to rent a space and rally a critical mass of 100-200 mountain bikers.
Chet has agreed to move forward with some of our existing proposals to
open new trails to mountain bikers. The letter accomplished two
things:

1. He finally read and is currently responding to our trail conversion
request: http://mbosc.org/2006/11/trail_propo...final_Ver2.pdf.
He has asked the Mountain Sector Superintendent to contact me (more
later).

2. He actually pulled and read the Gray Whale file. The issues are
complicated but he has a broad understanding of the issues associated
with opening the trails on Gray Whale.
http://www.mbosc.org/advocacy/wilder.html

There were a lot of constructive discussion points and most of them
sounded favorable to mountain biking (given his audience) but there
are three specific points that he wanted to make to the mountain
biking community:

1. Chet is one of our better recreation advocates within this State
Parks District in many, many years. I agree and so other bike
advocates who have worked with Chet while he was at previous position.
He seemed slighted from the letter and he took it personally that the
tone of the letter implies that this district is unsympathetic to
mountain biking - which was true under previous District Supers.

2. His number one priority is to keep the park operations functioning.
Very challenging in this economic climate so don't expect quick
progress.

3. There are a lot of new people in the district and there has been
some promotions. There is a great opportunity to create positive
working relationships with the staff. The new staff is going to try
different ways to manage the properties. Enforcement is one such
action (as we are all aware).

Some other points which were made:

* The Big Basin general plan is starting up again. Mountain bikers
should be engaged in this process to ensure that we are not excluded
from the property and we may be able to make inroads on future trails
and re-designations of existing trails.

* Chet belongs to a group of local park professionals (Mid-Pen, POST,
etc...) who regularly hold "what have you got" meetings and try to
pool resources and strategies. They all agree that multi-use trails
should be used to connect adjoining properties.

* He thinks that mountain bikers are going to be important allies and
recognizes the importance of the mountain biking community.

Getting back to the outcome of the letter: I received a voice mail
from the Mountain Sector Superintendent (employee reporting to the
District Super Chet). We have been trying to have a conversation but
we have been playing phone tag. Hopefully I will have a chance to
connect next week. I will be working with the Sector Super to find
common ground, look at the role of mountain biking and see what
projects he is willing to staff which will be beneficial to mountain
bikers. I will be discussing the existing enforcement program,
converting limited use trails to multi-use (as per our proposal) and
I'll validate the rumor that the stunts and trails at Cowell are
currently being dismantled.

This is good news. A little bit of progress.

[Prettym1k3]

Awesome!

[snowjnky]

good job

[SpecRider96]

SWEET! And thank you Mark for all your hard work!

[GoGoGordo]

Originally Posted by SpecRider96

SWEET! And thank you Mark for all your hard work!

Ditto. You Da Man

[firerake]

do you guys/girls even live up here/there?...currently (last seen on tues 3/10) there's a group of 5+ punks building up huge kickers on Z's, & hauling in area rugs to cover the take-offs & landings...the little f**kers broke thru a locked gate to an old skid road and are driving up to the trail behind some homes off the toll house road above glengary...this type of blatant dumbassed behavior is only geeting the state park cops riled up even more...hopefully when caught these idiots will see some jailtime and huge fines for habitat restoration...oh and they will be caught...cops (seen patrolling Z's on horseback 3/11) have placed game cameras out in the woods so be warned as you/we are being filmed when in the area...

[MTBShane]

dude.....as much as I agree with you on all this, jailing them is absurd. I dont want to pay for some dumbass to go to jail/prison with my tax money! People should go to jail for crimes that warrant it - and this simply is not one of those. They should get a MASSIVE fine and ridiculous amounts of community service. Both of those things actually help the community, sending someone to jail to serve time with true criminals does not benefit anyone.

Thanks for contributing!

[firerake]

habitat, vegetation destruction, altering the land in a state park is a felony...felony trespassing with their truck????...one of the pricks was mouthing off about his dad being a lawyer and the rangers and the people at the top of scenic can go f!!k themselves...god damn shuttlers...go to northstar or aptos but get the hell out of my/our backyard...else get a double chainring and learn how to ride uphill....!

[beaverbiker]

I just want to remind firerake that plenty of downhillers that shuttle can kick his arse uphill any day.

Sending them to jail is definitely not going to help anything. Make them pay in other ways...

[CHUM]

Originally Posted by beaverbiker

....Make them pay in other ways...

make them freeride in lycra?.....goggles with skinsuits?.....ride fixed in capris sporting a white hipster belt drinking warm PBR from the can?...

[MTBShane]

Originally Posted by firerake

habitat, vegetation destruction, altering the land in a state park is a felony...felony trespassing with their truck????...one of the pricks was mouthing off about his dad being a lawyer and the rangers and the people at the top of scenic can go f!!k themselves...god damn shuttlers...go to northstar or aptos but get the hell out of my/our backyard...else get a double chainring and learn how to ride uphill....!

This is another case of having the right idea but the wrong attitude. You need to take a breath and step back for a minute. Yes - they are idiots/punks/ignorant/inconsiderate etc, etc. The problem is the punishment must fit the crime (what a concept) and you are derailing the purpose of this thread with a rant. I AGREE with you, but I think there is a better way to get your point across. Bashing DH riders etc will certainly only cause more problems.

Again, I am not arguing with you, simply trying to point out that your point would be more well received if you were being constructive in a solution. I was curious about the ranger comment though, did they also do something "weird"? As for the smart-ass kid.......remind him how easy it is to get lost out there and NEVER found again! Ok, ok - just joking!

[GoGoGordo]

[quote=fi...cops (seen patrolling Z's on horseback 3/11) have placed game cameras out in the woods so be warned as you/we are being filmed when in the area...[/QUOTE]
Also known as Americas funniest hometown videos.

BS - Shuttlers call his bluff

The South shall rise again boys.
Hell this is almost as bad as the Bernie Madoff thing.
Definitely should be some jail time for these crimes against humanity.
G-out

[firerake]

ahh now you're ranting?!...i used to be a believer in violence cutting thru the bs, but nowadays both parties get jailed for fighting...sorry about the language and such but i'm reeeeeeeeeealy pissed about what's transpired up in our playground over the last couple of years...digging pits in the middle of existing trails and using the dirt to build a double???...what's wrong with the natural terrain?...bypassing turns to straighten out the line??????...go find someplace else (not you mtbshane) new and build your own trail...but that's too much work...too easy to hijack somebody else's trail...

as to the downhiller threats...good luck!!!...besides, I learned early on that you've got to ride up in order to go down...as such you don't have to pay for all the gas...and the neighbors don't get pissed...but, downhillers do need a place to do their thing I agree, just not there...the area's way to small for that...hell magic carpet is only a mile long...dead camper probably less...with hwy 9 right there and the park, and the hood, the shuttling's waaaay to obvious & obnoxious...then again the taquaria and the cowboy love your business and that's a good thing!!!

[firerake]

gogo....the cams are there...one is up top pointed at the turnout at the twin gates...they get you on film so if you fight the ticket, they've got some prior evidence

[beaverbiker]

Originally Posted by CHUM

make them freeride in lycra?.....goggles with skinsuits?.....ride fixed in capris sporting a white hipster belt drinking warm PBR from the can?...

I'm definitely guilty of wearing goggles with skinsuits, but I'm no hipster.

I also still have battle wounds on my back from when I thought it'd be a good idea to hit this sizeable jump over a huge rock about 5 hours into an xc ride. Even lycra isn't immune to catching the wind.

[GoGoGordo]

Originally Posted by firerake

gogo....the cams are there...one is up top pointed at the turnout at the twin gates...they get you on film so if you fight the ticket, they've got some prior evidence

Paintballs?

[firerake]

good idea...maybe innovative can make a chuck for the little co2 cannisters...single shot w/presta???..."saturday morning special"...

[ARider]

It looks as if Z's is no more. Tons of debris piled on the feeder trails and rumor of a bulldozer doing its business.

Cameras in the trees to catch the shuttle rats, huge jump trail plowed, rangers at the dumbass drop in points on 9; I actually kind of like this crackdown. It is weeding out the weak links.

[Berkeley Mike]

That is what the Darwin Awards are about.

In this case if our Rangers ignore these abusers, who are treating this resource with contempt, they look really stupid. Further if we as mountain bikers allow this sort of behavior to propagate, in spite of how much we profess to be environmentalists and good citizens, we are no better. We just end up fostering the very negative identity we seem to enjoy in the society in general.

They're only kids having fun? Give me a break. I'm so tired of those sorts of rationalizations which people use to evade their own role as adults involved in authority. Instead of being sneak thieves and vandals, be a part of the solution and force them to man-up. I say bust 'em and make them take their medicine.

[firerake]

too bad they used machinery...I would've done it for free, but was afraid of getting hassled by the cops + potential for having a smackdown w/ the idiot kids...mtb'ing ain't worthy of jailtime!!!

[bdamschen]

Firerake- You sure talk a lot of cheese about other riders for someone who rides the same illegal trails. So you don't go off "huge kickers", so what? You're still out there contributing to the general masses riding around gathering attention.

If you think everything's going to suddenly be warm, fuzzy and legal as soon as all the shuttlers leave, you don't have a very good grasp on reality.

[firerake]

maybe roaring camp would be willing to allow some of their property to be used as such?...just don't do that kind of sh$t in a state park as it does make all of look bad...you get caught riding in the playground this weekend the cops ("California State Parks Peace Officer" not ranger) might try to pin some of Z's on ya...

[firerake]

never said anything about warm and fuzzy...truthfully i'm impressed by the stunts those guy's pull off...me, i'm too old to pull off crashing like they do!!!...I go off small when it comes to hucking!...as for the masses, me and the bro's didn't expect the masses when magic carpet (aka tree hugger's) was re-opened in '94...the masses were driving from the pit to nisene...and wilder...specialized wasn' doing photo session here either back then...

[bluedemo8]

I found a bunch of loose nails about a inch long in front of the jumps at the bottom.

[gonzo]

I rode SC Saturday and had a few groups of big bike riders drop into Henry Cowell while I was taking a 15min. break at the tree. They were dropping into Henry Cowell and I assume they were dropping all the way to hw9.

On my way out driving past the hw9 drop out, I saw a group dropping on hw9.

What will it take for folks to keep out, a WARNING?

[firerake]

nice...vandalism against vandalism...a better statement would've been to tear the sh!t apart...booby trapping's just as illegal...hopefully you were running stans...

[snowjnky]

Originally Posted by gonzo

I rode SC Saturday and had a few groups of big bike riders drop into Henry Cowell while I was taking a 15min. break at the tree. They were dropping into Henry Cowell and I assume they were dropping all the way to hw9.

On my way out driving past the hw9 drop out, I saw a group dropping on hw9.

What will it take for folks to keep out, a WARNING?

hopefully nothing...and whats up with the meth head smiley

[firerake]

probably the best thing about mtb is that it can done as a goup...riding along chit-chat...hanging out a some jumps...but then again it's one of the most individual of outdoor sports...

however, there are areas and times whan a large group is inappropriate...the felton branch of the uc/cowell trails is one of these areas...6+ and now it's a large group (up there)...now consider the 10am start time(s) at rincon...by 10:30 they're heading down thru the playground...i've seen multiple groups of up to (at least) 20 in there by noon...way to many as that area is maybe 500 acres at most???...and when mtbr.com has one of their jamborees over here, or specilized with their university gig...talk about attracting some attention...

happy crackhead smiley

[LovePoachin#9]

It's just wrong to have the end of the trails land you on Hwy 9. Some riders like the danger. They see these Pros jumping gaps on film and think they just need another foot of lift to do it here >>> SHOVEL!! >>> From all the talk I'm reading here, it would not be any surprise to find out later that the inner yearn for NorthShore riding easy & cheap instant satisfaction killed the local freebikepark. Solution: Go where the trails are legal. What is it about people who've never worked to own anything that are found stealing your bike, your car, your backyard, whatever?

Originally Posted by firerake

habitat, vegetation destruction, altering the land in a state park is a felony...felony trespassing with their truck????...one of the pricks was mouthing off about his dad being a lawyer

So he used the old my dad can beat up your dad thing huh? Let's review the CA Bar Association statistics for lawyers: 50% graduate in the bottom half of their class. Let's review the CA Bar Assn stats for court cases and trials: one side loses/one side wins - it's that 50% number again. Those are pretty good odds, considering the Rangers will be able to use more than one lawyer with your tax money and his dad the lawyer will be using his own time / not likely to hire another lawyer. Little dogs jump around and bark. Big dogs bite.

[bdamschen]

I think it's great when people create an account just so they don't have to be accountable for what they're complaing about.

At any rate, I don't think the whole stream of conciousness thing is working for you. What the heck does trails ending on Highway 9 have to do with danger? What do pros jumping gaps in films have to do with that? What the hell does a shovel have to do with anything?

Moving on, you're complaining about too many riders getting the "local freebikepark" closed, and your solution is to... uh...... not ride it? Even if it were open, how does not riding trails keep them open? No one is riding them so they might as well be closed.

Finally, who cares if some kid is mouthing off? It is darwinism at work- if he's dumb, he'll end up getting a ticket.

[LovePoachin#9]

Originally Posted by bdamschen

What the hell does a shovel have to do with anything?

Wouldn't expect you to know ANYthing about a shovel, damn shame.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=346936

[bdamschen]

Originally Posted by LovePoachin#9

Wouldn't expect you to know ANYthing about a shovel, damn shame.
http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=346936

*gasp* illegal trail building!

Yes, I build trails. No, I don't build in Santa Cruz. No, you will never find my trails. Yes, every trail up there is illegal and would not exist with out people building more trails.

This is why I'm asking what your shovels comment had to do with anything:

You cannot say people building at UCSC is what has caused those trails to be closed. The trails everyone is upset people are cracking down on would never have existed if people had not dug out there in the first place.
Therefore you never would have had a chance to ride them, so without shovels the trails would have been closed in the first place as there would never have been any created. If you've ever ridden out there, you should be thanking someone with a shovel for building something for you to ride.

[LovePoachin#9]

Holy smoke. Are you STILL talking?

/// close it

[bdamschen]

If I don't feed the trolls, then how would I keep from getting bored at work?

[snowjnky]

FYI the state parks Mountain Sector Superintendent decided to stop enforcement and do education instead

Ya'll been eja-ma-cated

http://www.mbosc.org/2009/03/2009_03...s_response.pdf

BTW have you heard about the new pirate movie in theaters now?

it's rated ARRRRRRRRR

[bdamschen]

Originally Posted by snowjnky

FYI the state parks Mountain Sector Superintendent decided to stop enforcement and do education instead

Ya'll been eja-ma-cated

http://www.mbosc.org/2009/03/2009_03...s_response.pdf

BTW have you heard about the new pirate movie in theaters now?

it's rated ARRRRRRRRR

Right on. It's nice to see an agency willing to work with a local mountain biking population.

[grumblingcrustacean]

Who's up for some shuttling?

Ohwait...the wife and I are biking wilder tomorrow.

-jim

[snowjnky]

Originally Posted by grumblingcrustacean

Who's up for some shuttling?

Ohwait...the wife and I are biking wilder tomorrow.

-jim

remember to do intervels

[bikerguy]

I'm scared to ride UCSC now. but i really want to. shoot. life is full of dilemmas.

[sanjosedre]

I really miss UC also but with a baby on the way I cannot swing a $400 ticket. Does anyone actually know someone who has been ticketed? I promise not to drop in onto HWY 9.

[icantdrive65]

A guy I know said two of his buddies got tickets.

[Cyclingdirt]

MTB is not a crime!

[Bob95065]

I haven't checked MTBR in 6 months and was shocked to read this thread. I came to the board because a friend and I are planning a ride in UCSC later this week. We planned on riding the tracks and up the UCon trail to the University. Maybe we should ride High street to the white pillars to come in?

Please put me on your list if there is another meeting. Send me a PM and I'll bve there.

Maybe starting an e-mail list for information or meetings would be a good idea. I had no idea any of this was going on and I didn't know about the meeting at Seabright Brewery. If you had an e-mail list you could notify us of future meetings.

Just a suggestion. I'm subscribing to this thread.

Bob

[HarryCallahan]

Bob,

Uconn to the Chinqapin fire road through UCSC is all on the up and up. I don't know how much of the thread you read, but what's at issue is the area between the fire road and 9, and most specifically, the area owned by State Parks.

Check the Mountain Bikers of Santa Cruz website and the blog there:
http://www.mbosc.org/

[Blue Shorts]

Originally Posted by Cyclingdirt

MTB is not a crime!

MTB on ILLEGAL trails IS A CRIME. Tell your mommy that she'll have to pay a $300+ fine when you get caught. See if she shuttles you anymore.

[mrtoadsc]

Originally Posted by Bob95065

I haven't checked MTBR in 6 months and was shocked to read this thread. I came to the board because a friend and I are planning a ride in UCSC later this week. We planned on riding the tracks and up the UCon trail to the University. Maybe we should ride High street to the white pillars to come in?

Please put me on your list if there is another meeting. Send me a PM and I'll bve there.

Maybe starting an e-mail list for information or meetings would be a good idea. I had no idea any of this was going on and I didn't know about the meeting at Seabright Brewery. If you had an e-mail list you could notify us of future meetings.

Just a suggestion. I'm subscribing to this thread.

Bob

Hi Bob,

MBOSC has a mailing list. Instructions to join are here: http://mbosc.org/join.html

The discussion has pretty lively these days and this will be the forum for reporting on the progress of our initiatives.

We also have a blog here: http://mbosc.blogspot.com

I have been having discussions with the State Parks officials and they have been very positive. Two major concessions:

1. The Rangers patrolling the area are going to shift the emphasis from enforcement to education.

2. They are in the process of hiring a new Superintendent. His highest priority will be to address a proposal we submitted to create more legal riding in the Santa Cruz area.

More details here: http://mbosc.blogspot.com/2009/03/mo...anta-cruz.html

Also in return, they ask that we do not ride on the back side of Cowell. Personally, I will not be riding there very often. I'll leave it to others to choose their own actions.