Forest Park/Poaching Follow-Up

free-agent · 11-21-2008

Alright, I'm not ok with letting this only be a thread on mtbr. Ask mtb'rs to pick up a shovel and we will, ask us to research environmental issues and attend a meeting to speak our mind and we will. The problem is that there does not seem to be any ways for us TO be involved, aside from the occasional work party (of which I have attended when possible). I have checked all over the internet, and with locals in the mtb community who are "in the know," nada. I don't think there has been a post on the Forest Park forum on the PUMP website since Jan of '86...

So, how about this idea? An organized group ride at Forest Park on some Saturday/Sunday this Winter? We get every single Freerider, Hucker, DH'er, Crosser, XC'er, dirt jumper, Bmx'er, roadie, commuter we can to participate. We can notify every single news outlet (papers, TV stations, bikeportland, etc) to cover it. We do it as a fundraiser for PUMP/IMBA, or to raise food for a local non-profit. Or both? We ride Leif up to the top of FL 5, bomb 5, and ride back. I picture one hundred plus cyclists riding, chatting, mobilizing. Afterward we invade New Old Lompc for beers, wings, etc and inject a bunch of $$ there as well. Maybe FTF can donate bikes for people that do not have them, yet want to ride. Maybe we can get groups like the DOD to come as well?
Thoughts?

ImaKlyde · 11-21-2008

A bit of social disobedience? I might be talked into something like that. I don't know about the DOD as a whole since most of us are such conformists and rule followers...cough...cough... It's all date dependent of course.

Brock...

btodd · 11-21-2008

FL5 is open to bikes, so no rules would be broken. Great idea. There is such an apathetic attitude towards mt. biking in portland, and a time for action has come. Guess what? hikers are never going to volunteer to share the trails, which belong to everyone, they horde them like children. aggressive action seems to be the only option.

Sparticus · 11-21-2008

I'll be there to support this (so long as my schedule doesn't conflict). Open to suggestion? Have sign-up sheets at the event where you can get people's email addresses. Start a list and grow the group. Have bumper stickers printed (somthing like "MTBFP" or such) and give them away at the event & every other chance you get. Begin to make this a bigger social issue (again).

Remember when the Rasneeshees ounumbered the "regular" residents of the town of Antelope, OR? Soon all city council seats belonged to you know who. Just don't break the law like the R's did. Infiltrate & expand. Make this a citywide (statewide?) issue. Let's mobilize the Oregon mountain bike community and work from within to be a (maybe "the") major user group at Forest Park.

Easy for me to say... I've actually never ridden FP and I live 130 miles away from it... I'm just sayin'...

--Sparty

Quote:

Originally Posted by free-agent

Alright, I'm not ok with letting this only be a thread on mtbr. Ask mtb'rs to pick up a shovel and we will, ask us to research environmental issues and attend a meeting to speak our mind and we will. The problem is that there does not seem to be any ways for us TO be involved, aside from the occasional work party (of which I have attended when possible). I have checked all over the internet, and with locals in the mtb community who are "in the know," nada. I don't think there has been a post on the Forest Park forum on the PUMP website since Jan of '86...

So, how about this idea? An organized group ride at Forest Park on some Saturday/Sunday this Winter? We get every single Freerider, Hucker, DH'er, Crosser, XC'er, dirt jumper, Bmx'er, roadie, commuter we can to participate. We can notify every single news outlet (papers, TV stations, bikeportland, etc) to cover it. We do it as a fundraiser for PUMP/IMBA, or to raise food for a local non-profit. Or both? We ride Leif up to the top of FL 5, bomb 5, and ride back. I picture one hundred plus cyclists riding, chatting, mobilizing. Afterward we invade New Old Lompc for beers, wings, etc and inject a bunch of $$ there as well. Maybe FTF can donate bikes for people that do not have them, yet want to ride. Maybe we can get groups like the DOD to come as well?
Thoughts?

swift · 11-21-2008

Great idea.
Post details as you figure them out. I'm in.

hydrogeek · 11-21-2008

A legal critical MTB mass. As long as it's legal and respectful, I'm in.

Free-Agent, You should invite some high profile bikers in the community also: Jonathan Maus (bikeportland.org), someone from Chris King, Sam Adams, local Cyclocross hot shots, etc. They don't have to come, but they will know it's happening and it may get some needed press.

dirtpunk7 · 11-21-2008

I was going to suggest the same thing.
Involving the local media is key. We need to generate public awareness about our plight. I also like the sign up list and bumpersticker ideas. Involving the local bike shops to play along and show their support would go a long way as well.

Well done, Free-Agent, it is about time to stop being passive and take some action.

old crank · 11-21-2008

This is a terrific idea! A legal critical mass for Forest Park. I would be willing to help you organize.

Thanks Free Agent.

GlowBoy · 11-21-2008

I'm in too. Not sure how much attention the media will pay (of course they'd pay lots of attention if we decided to poach -- which I am NOT suggesting) but it's worth a shot.

SmallAirAndy · 11-21-2008

Great idea. I'm in.....Bend.

Man, two months too late! Actually, if it's scheduled well enough in advance, there's a chance I can make it.

toowacky · 11-21-2008

Word. I'm in, just let me know when. I can talk to you about planning and brainstorm over barley pops-- this is a cause worthy of the effort.

Great idea FA.

Switchback78 · 11-21-2008

Proper..... I am in.

quaffimodo · 11-21-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by free-agent

Alright, I'm not ok with letting this only be a thread on mtbr. Ask mtb'rs to pick up a shovel and we will, ask us to research environmental issues and attend a meeting to speak our mind and we will. The problem is that there does not seem to be any ways for us TO be involved, aside from the occasional work party (of which I have attended when possible). I have checked all over the internet, and with locals in the mtb community who are "in the know," nada. I don't think there has been a post on the Forest Park forum on the PUMP website since Jan of '86...

So, how about this idea? An organized group ride at Forest Park on some Saturday/Sunday this Winter? We get every single Freerider, Hucker, DH'er, Crosser, XC'er, dirt jumper, Bmx'er, roadie, commuter we can to participate. We can notify every single news outlet (papers, TV stations, bikeportland, etc) to cover it. We do it as a fundraiser for PUMP/IMBA, or to raise food for a local non-profit. Or both? We ride Leif up to the top of FL 5, bomb 5, and ride back. I picture one hundred plus cyclists riding, chatting, mobilizing. Afterward we invade New Old Lompc for beers, wings, etc and inject a bunch of $$ there as well. Maybe FTF can donate bikes for people that do not have them, yet want to ride. Maybe we can get groups like the DOD to come as well?
Thoughts?

Sure, sounds good. I'd consider the possibility that that much traffic could be a bit much for the trail to handle given the unpredictable nature of the weather and the conditions of the day this time of year.

I do think that the solution to the bigger problem can be found in the history of FL 5 though. For years it was a de facto bike path prior to being given its current status. It was conspicuously underused-I carried pruning shears and gardening gloves in my pack to keep the berry bushes at bay.

FL 7/7A is similar in all respects. Nominally set aside for pedestrians and equestrians, it sees quite a bit of bicycle traffic. As is the case with virtually any trail that is regularly used by horses, the steep sections are deeply rutted and eroded. To me, this seems like an ideal opportunity to contrast the stewardship an "approved" group of high impact users (horse crap definitely needs to be a part of the discussion IMO) with the willingness of a group of low-impact users to come in and say "yeah, we ride here and we want to fix it up." I'm pretty sure that the damage could be repaired and prevented from recurring without the need to alter the line at all. Riprap to fill the ruts and treated wood for some drainage work would allow for a quantum improvement. Most of the bad stuff is down close to the intersection with Leif, so getting the materials in place wouldn't be difficult. It's about 15 minutes by bike from the Germantown lot so a significant effort could be mounted using bike trailers for transport. An ant trail of Burleys & BOBs would be quite a spectacle on the evening news.

PUMP seems far too concerned with cultivating an image as "good" mountain bikers to take something like this on, with the end result being that they've essentially been co-opted by the forces with a strong interest in maintaining the status quo. I'm convinced that an element of civil disobedience is going to be a necessary part of the solution.

dahoos · 11-21-2008

Count me in.

Jonathan Maus (bikeportland.org), someone from Chris King, Sam Adams, local Cyclocross hot shots, etc
I like this idea too. bikeportland.org is an excellent resource for commuters to crossers and he will occasionally dip into the mt. bike scene as well. He has a great deal of connections that would help get the word out.

lil'stink · 11-21-2008

Post this thread on the OBRA website. They get tons of traffic, I am sure you would get some positive responses from them as well.

offroadfanatic · 11-21-2008

Count me in.

jollybeggar · 11-21-2008

I'd love to show up depending on schedule, maybe a group of us D.O.Ders could caravan up for this event. Maybe combine a couple of hours of trail work with the ride. Make it all very public and visable.

Rockin · 11-21-2008

Post up the dates as soon as you figure it out. I would head up from Bend to support.

bjsid · 11-21-2008

freakin love it. i am in. i also agree that taking some time to get the word out to bike portland etc will be important to the success. I feel like timing is very important though. if we have 30 days straight of rain and we plan this for the 31st day i could see that being a problem. we will need some time to figure things out and i think we have it, going into winter like we are.

Lets talk this out a bit more. raising money for pump/imba/non profits are all good ideas. Having someone from one of those organizations there to collect donations or something? 5 dollar donation? Maybe design a cool portland mtb sticker in return for a donation? printing stickers can be relatively cheap, especially if a printer donates part of the cost.

FP at the end of thruman road on a sunny day can be filled with lots of people, great exposure. People would not even have to park at the trailhead which could cause a pretty big traffic problem. pick a more open place and ride to the trailhead.

anybody else have brainstorming ideas on this? would love to hear them.

jgusta · 11-21-2008

BB, way to take charge and try to create some change with the current affairs of FP.

I'll try to make it too even though I hate crowds, most people, large group rides, etc, especially if something good will come of it, which something like this very well has the potential to do.

Man, you are like Portland's trail Obama, "we believe!"

JG

OldHouseMan · 11-21-2008

This will only work if all of you "RIDE" to the trail head and not drive...This is the whole point of having single track in the city isn't it?

toowacky · 11-22-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldHouseMan

This will only work if all of you "RIDE" to the trail head and not drive...This is the whole point of having single track in the city isn't it?

Isn't that like saying you should only show up for an Iraq "War for Oil" protest in downtown Portland if you don't drive a car there?

I'll take the extra numbers regardless of how they get there.

But I agree that riding to the trailhead would make a better statement, and would encourage anyone who lives in town to do so...

Sparticus · 11-22-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldHouseMan

This will only work if all of you "RIDE" to the trail head and not drive...This is the whole point of having single track in the city isn't it?

Sorry, no can do from Creswell. We can carpool... good enough?

--Sparty

OldHouseMan · 11-22-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparticus

Sorry, no can do from Creswell. We can carpool... good enough?

--Sparty

Out of towners are exempt.

Sparticus · 11-22-2008

...it's okay to burn gas to get there, but only if you're going to burn a LOT of gas.

--Sparty

P.S. Something wrong with my browser... won't let me post a smiley.

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldHouseMan

Out of towners are exempt.

OldHouseMan · 11-22-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sparticus

...it's okay to burn gas to get there, but only if you're going to burn a LOT of gas.

--Sparty

P.S. Something wrong with my browser... won't let me post a smiley.

Good point...You can't come.

RBTM · 11-22-2008

fo shizzle i'm in

Sasquatch · 11-23-2008

Breaking news!!!!!!

Mystery rider seen poaching legal singletrack!!!!!!

quaffimodo · 11-23-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Breaking news!!!!!!

Mystery rider seen poaching legal singletrack!!!!!!

Nooooooooooo!

Sparticus · 11-23-2008

Who can the mystery rider be? Must be from Eugene... I can tell by the Duck Tape.

--Sparty

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Breaking news!!!!!!

Mystery rider seen poaching legal singletrack!!!!!!

Mudflaps · 11-23-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sasquatch

Breaking news!!!!!!

Mystery rider seen poaching legal singletrack!!!!!!

It's true - like a good wheel.

I saw it.
Flaps

AW_ · 11-23-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by OldHouseMan

This will only work if all of you "RIDE" to the trail head and not drive...This is the whole point of having single track in the city isn't it?

Having worthwhile trails in our city that would attract tourists to visit and spend money (food/lodging/gas/shopping/bikeparts) would probably be a better argument than anything else when it comes to getting city leaders to recognize the need for additional MTB trails.

p.s. who is driving the shuttle?

GlowBoy · 11-26-2008

Quaff, once we get some more awareness of the problem I like your idea of fixing up the bottom of FL7/7A as a good first project to take on. It's a mess, but only for a short section of what is otherwise one of the better trails in the park.

Thinking out loud here too .. one problem I think we have is that we don't maintain the trails we already have access to. It was nice to see lower FL4 get brushed out a year or two ago, but that's a dead end downhill trail that isn't going to entice many riders unless the connection is made to the bottom of Saltzman. Lower FL1, lower FL7 and upper FL4 are also nice trails that are frequently overgrown and frequented more by homeless campers than by thru-riders. If we put together a couple of work parties every year to clear those out, it will make for a nicer park experience, attract more riders to those trails, and attract more attention to the additional access we want.

I agree that it would be great to encourage everyone to ride to this event, and I certainly will ride from home myself. But if you live in Gresham, or Wilsonville, or Hillsboro, I think it's perfectly reasonable to drive. The "ride-there-if-you-can" message is great, but let's make sure we're not deterring potential participants with a "don't-show-up-in-a-car" message.

quaffimodo · 11-27-2008

Just in case someone didn't get the memo, acts of vandalism like this at the base of the Ridge trail are exactly what this situation does not need:

free-agent · 11-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by quaffimodo

Just in case someone didn't get the memo, acts of vandalism like this at the base of the Ridge trail are exactly what this situation does not need:

Spray paint?

jollybeggar · 11-27-2008

Or rust?

bjsid · 11-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by GlowBoy

Quaff, once we get some more awareness of the problem I like your idea of fixing up the bottom of FL7/7A as a good first project to take on. It's a mess, but only for a short section of what is otherwise one of the better trails in the park.

Thinking out loud here too .. one problem I think we have is that we don't maintain the trails we already have access to. It was nice to see lower FL4 get brushed out a year or two ago, but that's a dead end downhill trail that isn't going to entice many riders unless the connection is made to the bottom of Saltzman. Lower FL1, lower FL7 and upper FL4 are also nice trails that are frequently overgrown and frequented more by homeless campers than by thru-riders. If we put together a couple of work parties every year to clear those out, it will make for a nicer park experience, attract more riders to those trails, and attract more attention to the additional access we want.

I agree that it would be great to encourage everyone to ride to this event, and I certainly will ride from home myself. But if you live in Gresham, or Wilsonville, or Hillsboro, I think it's perfectly reasonable to drive. The "ride-there-if-you-can" message is great, but let's make sure we're not deterring potential participants with a "don't-show-up-in-a-car" message.

you might as well do trail work on the maple trail because from what i understand firelane 7 is not legal to bikes. http://www.forestparkconservancy.org/bike

cant figure out why firelane 7 is not legal, but i guess i could say that for everything in forest park.

it seems some of the main concerns with hikers and runners is trail conflicts. worried about getting run over. i find this to be a legitimate concern especially around the end of thurman where most of the traffic is. i can not see actually building new trails in forest park (although that would be awesome) because of all the red tape. i think what the mt. bike community needs to do is find a way to have either one way trails, trail days designated to bikes or something along these lines to make concerns about trail conflicts minimal to nothing. i just dont see at this point any single track being opened up without some creative thinking. anybody have any thoughts on this?

quaffimodo · 11-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by jollybeggar

Or rust?

Nope, definitely paint. I noticed it earlier in the year, just now got around to getting a picture of it. There are a few more like it.

quaffimodo · 11-27-2008

Quote:

Originally Posted by bjsid

you might as well do trail work on the maple trail because from what i understand firelane 7 is not legal to bikes. http://www.forestparkconservancy.org/bike

cant figure out why firelane 7 is not legal, but i guess i could say that for everything in forest park.

it seems some of the main concerns with hikers and runners is trail conflicts. worried about getting run over. i find this to be a legitimate concern especially around the end of thurman where most of the traffic is. i can not see actually building new trails in forest park (although that would be awesome) because of all the red tape. i think what the mt. bike community needs to do is find a way to have either one way trails, trail days designated to bikes or something along these lines to make concerns about trail conflicts minimal to nothing. i just dont see at this point any single track being opened up without some creative thinking. anybody have any thoughts on this?

What makes FL 7 a better candidate IMO is the fact that there are two other trails nearby, Hardesty and Ridge, which branch off from the top of FL 7 and hit Leif within about a half mile of one another. It simply isn't possible to make a cogent argument that none of the three should be made available for bicycle use.

swift · 11-28-2008

"No bicycles."

I'm just going to rock a unicycle or a tricycle on that baby!!!

Hmmm...thinking aloud here, "imagine a bunch of organized tricyclists/unicyclists riding the "no bicycles" trails."

...Civil disobedience or legal right?

P.S. I agree the vandalism is not helping anyone.

endoguy · 11-28-2008

I'm interested in joining on the ride as well as fixing up FL7.