Devil's Backbone - a reply from CO Open Land

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Last night I emailed CO Open Land & the following is their response.
I am not comforted by this letter. Seldom do I encounter hikers on the upper loops whose use is dominated by cyclists. The West loop has great terrain and I would be very disappointed to see it closed. I am contacting Meegan as the letter advises and encourage you all to do the same:

Hi James - thanks for your email and your comments.
We are not considering closing the Devil's Backbone to mountain bikes.
There was a misprint in the newspaper that has since been retracted.
What we are considering is that once the entire regional trail
connection is completed to Horsetooth Mountain Park, we will be
considering having mountain bikes use the east loop of the Backbone
trail and using the west loop for hikers. If you have any further
questions about the managment of these areas I would suggest contacting
Meegan Flenniken at the above email or at 679-4562.
Thanks again for your email!
Kerri

Kerri Rollins
Fund Development & Outreach Specialist
Larimer County Parks & Open Lands
1800 S County Road 31
Loveland, CO 80537
(970) 679-4577
FAX (970) 679-4574
www.larimer.org/parks/openlands

[chad1433]

Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel

Last night I emailed CO Open Land & the following is their response.
I am not comforted by this letter. Seldom do I encounter hikers on the upper loops whose use is dominated by cyclists. The West loop has great terrain and I would be very disappointed to see it closed. I am contacting Meegan as the letter advises and encourage you all to do the same:

Hi James - thanks for your email and your comments.
We are not considering closing the Devil's Backbone to mountain bikes.
There was a misprint in the newspaper that has since been retracted.
What we are considering is that once the entire regional trail
connection is completed to Horsetooth Mountain Park, we will be
considering having mountain bikes use the east loop of the Backbone
trail and using the west loop for hikers. If you have any further
questions about the managment of these areas I would suggest contacting
Meegan Flenniken at the above email or at 679-4562.
Thanks again for your email!
Kerri

Kerri Rollins
Fund Development & Outreach Specialist
Larimer County Parks & Open Lands
1800 S County Road 31
Loveland, CO 80537
(970) 679-4577
FAX (970) 679-4574
www.larimer.org/parks/openlands

I left a message for Meegan as well.

I don't understand the east loop/west loop thing. The west side of the "Backbone" loop is already closed to bikes. And you're right, I hardly ever see hikers on the back loops of the trail.

I called Meegan last week regarding trial building for that area and she mentioned something about a maint. day in Oct. It might be a good thing for the bikers who frequent this trail to show up in numbers on that day as a point of solidarity. The tentative date is Oct 23rd. She also noted that this would be sort of an "Adopt A Trail" type of thing, which is sponsored by an Equestrian group. Perhaps a cycling group could adopt a section of trail in that manner to help secure more access for us.

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Here's what she had to say.
I responded in kind that the board reconsider any action to segregate before having public hearings.

count me in for a trail day, but the tone of Meegan's letter suggests that the board has already made up its mind. Me thinks that only an aggressive campaign by cyclists could possible change her mind. I saw it happen back in Jersey...hikers tend to be older, wealthier, more vocal & activist than the bikers and their voice gets heard. The bikers tend to be younger & too preoccupied with other things - until its too late.

I don't want that to happen.

"James,

Thank you for your inquiry. To respond to your question, yes we are
proposing a separtion of uses on the northern two trail loops at the
Devil's Backbone Open Space, after the trail crosses through the big
valley. We do have a large number of multi-users who frequent these
trails and due to the high visitation and number of multi-use conflicts
are proposing a possible means for reducing conflicts which will not go
into effect until the future trail construction to the north is
complete. In addition, we do have mountain bikers who use these upper
loops as somewhat of a cycle track at high speeds. Once we have
completed building the over 8 additional miles of trails to the north
onto the Indian Creek Property and connecting up to Horsetooth Mountain
Park, we would like to implement this proposal and monitor the uses. I
think that the mountain biking community will benefit greatly from the
long-range plan and extensive trail system that will be open in the
next
1-1 1/2 years. Again, we would not be implementing this use
separation
until the future trails are completed. Please feel free to contact me
if you would like to further discuss this issue.


Meegan Flenniken
Resource Specialist
Larimer County Parks and Open Lands
1800 S. County Rd. 31
Loveland, CO 80537
PH: (970) 679-4562
FAX: (970) 679-4574"

[LeeMan]

Originally Posted by chad1433

I left a message for Meegan as well.

I don't understand the east loop/west loop thing. The west side of the "Backbone" loop is already closed to bikes. And you're right, I hardly ever see hikers on the back loops of the trail.

I called Meegan last week regarding trial building for that area and she mentioned something about a maint. day in Oct. It might be a good thing for the bikers who frequent this trail to show up in numbers on that day as a point of solidarity. The tentative date is Oct 23rd. She also noted that this would be sort of an "Adopt A Trail" type of thing, which is sponsored by an Equestrian group. Perhaps a cycling group could adopt a section of trail in that manner to help secure more access for us.

Maybe it's time we created a riding group for the Longmont/Loveland/Berthoud area. (I live in Berthoud.)

Even though Diamond Peaks has patrolled at Devil's Backbone, they don't have a
strong advocacy component (IMHO). BOA has enough political savy to attack this
kind of thing, but (1) it's out of their vicinity, and (2) they are already spread thinly.

Perhaps this is the perfect reason to get together, drink some beer (or coffee for
those of you unfortunate enough to not drink beer), and discuss what we should
do about this. I'm pretty sure I could get one or two free pieces of advice from Adam
Massey (the director of BOA). He's the most politically savy MTBer I know (with the
possible exception of Tim Blumenthal :-)).

But the first step if we're to have any chance of changing Larimer County's mind is
to organize. Land managers can dismiss a single person, but they just can't do
that when you say "I'm representing 100 mountain bikers in your voting district"!

You call the time and place, and I'll try to be there!

(Larry, are you out there? Might you be interested in helping with this?)

[jl]

Lee-Man,

Larry's offline for a couple of weeks. I think you have a great idea.

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Count me in as well.

Larry is in Hawaii until Sept 1 but we're in touch with each other & he'll be apprised of the situation.

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Nothing new to add.

I just want to get this thread circulated a bit more.

[chad1433]

Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel

Nothing new to add.

I just want to get this thread circulated a bit more.

I left a message again for Meegan, we keep playing phone tag. I did get a call back from a woman named Elaine and she's heading up a trail maint. day on Sat Oct 23rd from 8:30 to 1:30. I'll be calling her later, so I'll try to get more information.

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Good work. Keep me in the loop. Feel free to email me with info.

[skipowder]

For those interested I've included my latest correspondence with Meegan regarding the planned Devil's Backbone proposed trail restrictions.

Hi Meegan,

I placed my feed back below in  blue. 
I realize that you have a tough job to manage the different points of view and
want you to know that none of my comments are directed at you.

With that said here is a synopsis of my thoughts:  a)-- I would
like to see the statistics related to 'conflict/compaints' to ensuure that
these have been quantified vs emoted.  b)-- I believe that the new trails
will create new usage patterns for all groups.  Restrictions should not be
considered until after these usage paterns are understood.  Conflict could
be reduced thru natural dispersion of the users and c)--We all want our 'ideal
park'  eg... when I am riding my bike it's ideal to share trails with only
bikes, when I am hiking with my kids it's ideal that I don't have to worry
about bikes or people with dogs, ... I could go on.  This is a shared
resource.  We all have to make concessions and share the trail oiif we are
goinfg to restrict then d)-- It is not fair to restrict one group
only without providing some counter restrictions to increase the 'value'
of that groups experience.  The proposal provides hikers and horse
people with a choice.  The biking community deserves the same
luxury.



Meegan,

First of all thanks for the response.  I would love to attend the public
meetings - Unfortunately my travel schedule doesn't often permit me.  I
have a couple of questions: 



1)--If you separate the uses does this mean that Mountain bikers will have
exclusive use of the trails designated for that purpose? Much like the horse
back riders/hiker side. 

Meegan -- We would still
allow hikers and equestrian users to loop around as we anticipate that a 7-mile
distance is a significant distance for most hikers.  However, hikers and
equestrian users may likely opt to return back on their same route knowing that
they will on a trail segment with less congestion .

MEF - This seems a bit 'one sided'.  While
mountain bikers have reduced options hikers/horseman are not restricted.  
Having a biking only trail would certainly provide some added value to
bikers  --> not riding thru horse waste, passing hikers going at slower
pace, negotiating dogs, etc...  Personnally I would like to see it non
restricted period. 



2)--Why the west side?  While this would be ok on the middle loop the east
side of the far north loop is not as 'ridable' as the west side.

The west side would be much mor conducive to bike riding. 

Meegan -- We are trying to be
consistent with our first loop and keep the separation of uses similar on all
three loops.  However, I am curious to know your thoughts on why the east
side of the farthest loop is less rideable.
MEF  - The east side is not as 'rideable' due
to the technical difficulty associated with the trail.  This
is because the trail navigates thru several gulleys that have steep drop
offs that require the majority of riders to dismount in order to negotiate the
trail.  The west side is not as technically challenging in this regard. 
In skiing terms the east side would be a black diamond and the west side a
blue run.




3)--Can you quantify the nature of the 'conflicts' for me?   Were
there

many reports of issues. Are they coming form different individuals, groups,
etc. This really surprised me!  I am concerned that this could be the loud
voice of a few vs. the quiet voice of the many. 
Meegan -- We have high ranger
presence on our trails at they have received direct reports of mult-use
conflict, complaints on congestion, etc.  Our rangers have also observed
various conflicts occuring as well as cyclists using the back loops in a cycle
track manor on various occassions.
MEF - Do you have the number of
complaints quantified?  Is it scientific or emotional.  I would like
to see this quantified (eg.. 10 per month, 10 per 100 people visits) My concern
is it may be more of an emotional decision.  Some personal history: -->
I ran into an individual when the Devils Backbone first opened.  I pulled
over on my bike to let a lady who was hiking by.  She informed me that she
was a member of the open space committee and that the trail was never intended
for bikes.  A week later all biking was restricted.  This restriction
was in effect until the trails were extended.  I would like to better
understand if the decision is being made because individuals do not like seeing
bikes on trails vs rude and discourteous bike riders.



4)--I have not seen many people (on any mode of transportation) on the outer
loops in general.  It surprised something needs to be done to

'alleviate some of the congestion and multi-use conflicts'.   
Why the

focus in that area? 
Meegan -- Taking a regional view,
to balance the uses on the close-in 7 miles of trails at the Devil's Backbone,
we are proposing that once the additional 8-9 miles of multi-use Foothills
Regional Trail are built onto Indian Creek and connecting through to the 27
miles of multi-use trails at Horsetooth Mountain Park and trails at Lory State
Park, that we would separate uses on the northern two existing trail loops at
the Devil's Backbone.  In total, the western portions of these loops
represent less than 1 1/2 miles that would not be open to mountain bikes,
and  it is our hope that it will alleviate some of the congestion and
multi-use conflicts.  There are a variety of reasons that different user
groups use our trails, from recreation to solitude, exercise to wildlife
watching, and providing opportunities for all interests when possible is a goal
of the Open Lands Program.
While we are proposing this
separation of uses on the back two loops starting once the future 8-9 miles of
trail are constructed, we will monitor the uses and reevaluate as necessary how
use patterns may change as these additional trails are open.  We really
appreciate our partnership with Diamond Peaks Mountain Bike Patrol and look
forward to a continued partnership well into the future.  We feel that by
providing access for all users as balanced as possible, we will provide
opportunity for all types of interests to enjoy these open spaces.

MEF - First - I am excited about the work you
and others have done to put together the regional trail system!  This is
exciting.  Being an active in hiking, mountaineering, spelunking, etc.. I
also understand there are different reasons people take advantage of parks and
the outdoors.  Unfortunately what fear is developing is an anti-bike
special interest group that is effecting the policy.  Seeing a bike on a
trail is somehow going to diminish the experience.   
Also - It seems like we are putting the cart before
the horse in regard to the plan for conflict management.  Any trail
restrictions should be effected after 1)--the new trails are established,
2)--trail conficts are determinde based on new usage patterns created by the
new trails.  The new trails could create a whole new usage pattern for all
groups that use that park.  Natural dispersion of users over a borader set
of trails could reduce the aformentioned conflict.

It seems like the most popular trail is the east side of the first loop. 
I believe this is because it's a relatively flat and easy hike. I would say 90%
of the folks that go there start out going down that trail.

Options to alleviate congestion there would be to a)--widen the trail to allow
bikers to pass hikers without one or the other going off the trail, b)--make
the west side trail that is already wider the multiuse trail, or 3)--provide a
separate multiuse trail that ties in past the first loop.  The first loop
becomes the 'nature hike' trail that will suit the majority of folks that go
there.

MEF
- any thought here?



I any regards - I will review the draft management plan and will look forward
to your response.



Regards,

Mark Feilinger

[Jdub]

Originally Posted by LeeMan

Maybe it's time we created a riding group for the Longmont/Loveland/Berthoud area. (I live in Berthoud.)

Sounds like a great idea to me....I'm about to close on a house in Longmont, and I'd love to get associated with a riding group. I've been affiliated with two groups and they have both had very positive impacts on maintaining existing trails and creating new trails. I don't know all the history and or land, but I've got other skills that may be useful like (website creation, graphics skills, etc)

-Joel

[chad1433]

Originally Posted by skipowder

For those interested I've included my latest correspondence with Meegan regarding the planned Devil's Backbone proposed trail restrictions.

Hi Meegan,

I placed my feed back below in  blue. 
I realize that you have a tough job to manage the different points of view and
want you to know that none of my comments are directed at you.

With that said here is a synopsis of my thoughts:  a)-- I would
like to see the statistics related to 'conflict/compaints' to ensuure that
these have been quantified vs emoted.  b)-- I believe that the new trails
will create new usage patterns for all groups.  Restrictions should not be
considered until after these usage paterns are understood.  Conflict could
be reduced thru natural dispersion of the users and c)--We all want our 'ideal
park'  eg... when I am riding my bike it's ideal to share trails with only
bikes, when I am hiking with my kids it's ideal that I don't have to worry
about bikes or people with dogs, ... I could go on.  This is a shared
resource.  We all have to make concessions and share the trail oiif we are
goinfg to restrict then d)-- It is not fair to restrict one group
only without providing some counter restrictions to increase the 'value'
of that groups experience.  The proposal provides hikers and horse
people with a choice.  The biking community deserves the same
luxury.



Meegan,

First of all thanks for the response.  I would love to attend the public
meetings - Unfortunately my travel schedule doesn't often permit me.  I
have a couple of questions: 



1)--If you separate the uses does this mean that Mountain bikers will have
exclusive use of the trails designated for that purpose? Much like the horse
back riders/hiker side. 

Meegan -- We would still
allow hikers and equestrian users to loop around as we anticipate that a 7-mile
distance is a significant distance for most hikers.  However, hikers and
equestrian users may likely opt to return back on their same route knowing that
they will on a trail segment with less congestion .

MEF - This seems a bit 'one sided'.  While
mountain bikers have reduced options hikers/horseman are not restricted.  
Having a biking only trail would certainly provide some added value to
bikers  --> not riding thru horse waste, passing hikers going at slower
pace, negotiating dogs, etc...  Personnally I would like to see it non
restricted period. 



2)--Why the west side?  While this would be ok on the middle loop the east
side of the far north loop is not as 'ridable' as the west side.

The west side would be much mor conducive to bike riding. 

Meegan -- We are trying to be
consistent with our first loop and keep the separation of uses similar on all
three loops.  However, I am curious to know your thoughts on why the east
side of the farthest loop is less rideable.
MEF  - The east side is not as 'rideable' due
to the technical difficulty associated with the trail.  This
is because the trail navigates thru several gulleys that have steep drop
offs that require the majority of riders to dismount in order to negotiate the
trail.  The west side is not as technically challenging in this regard. 
In skiing terms the east side would be a black diamond and the west side a
blue run.




3)--Can you quantify the nature of the 'conflicts' for me?   Were
there

many reports of issues. Are they coming form different individuals, groups,
etc. This really surprised me!  I am concerned that this could be the loud
voice of a few vs. the quiet voice of the many. 
Meegan -- We have high ranger
presence on our trails at they have received direct reports of mult-use
conflict, complaints on congestion, etc.  Our rangers have also observed
various conflicts occuring as well as cyclists using the back loops in a cycle
track manor on various occassions.
MEF - Do you have the number of
complaints quantified?  Is it scientific or emotional.  I would like
to see this quantified (eg.. 10 per month, 10 per 100 people visits) My concern
is it may be more of an emotional decision.  Some personal history: -->
I ran into an individual when the Devils Backbone first opened.  I pulled
over on my bike to let a lady who was hiking by.  She informed me that she
was a member of the open space committee and that the trail was never intended
for bikes.  A week later all biking was restricted.  This restriction
was in effect until the trails were extended.  I would like to better
understand if the decision is being made because individuals do not like seeing
bikes on trails vs rude and discourteous bike riders.



4)--I have not seen many people (on any mode of transportation) on the outer
loops in general.  It surprised something needs to be done to

'alleviate some of the congestion and multi-use conflicts'.   
Why the

focus in that area? 
Meegan -- Taking a regional view,
to balance the uses on the close-in 7 miles of trails at the Devil's Backbone,
we are proposing that once the additional 8-9 miles of multi-use Foothills
Regional Trail are built onto Indian Creek and connecting through to the 27
miles of multi-use trails at Horsetooth Mountain Park and trails at Lory State
Park, that we would separate uses on the northern two existing trail loops at
the Devil's Backbone.  In total, the western portions of these loops
represent less than 1 1/2 miles that would not be open to mountain bikes,
and  it is our hope that it will alleviate some of the congestion and
multi-use conflicts.  There are a variety of reasons that different user
groups use our trails, from recreation to solitude, exercise to wildlife
watching, and providing opportunities for all interests when possible is a goal
of the Open Lands Program.
While we are proposing this
separation of uses on the back two loops starting once the future 8-9 miles of
trail are constructed, we will monitor the uses and reevaluate as necessary how
use patterns may change as these additional trails are open.  We really
appreciate our partnership with Diamond Peaks Mountain Bike Patrol and look
forward to a continued partnership well into the future.  We feel that by
providing access for all users as balanced as possible, we will provide
opportunity for all types of interests to enjoy these open spaces.

MEF - First - I am excited about the work you
and others have done to put together the regional trail system!  This is
exciting.  Being an active in hiking, mountaineering, spelunking, etc.. I
also understand there are different reasons people take advantage of parks and
the outdoors.  Unfortunately what fear is developing is an anti-bike
special interest group that is effecting the policy.  Seeing a bike on a
trail is somehow going to diminish the experience.   
Also - It seems like we are putting the cart before
the horse in regard to the plan for conflict management.  Any trail
restrictions should be effected after 1)--the new trails are established,
2)--trail conficts are determinde based on new usage patterns created by the
new trails.  The new trails could create a whole new usage pattern for all
groups that use that park.  Natural dispersion of users over a borader set
of trails could reduce the aformentioned conflict.

It seems like the most popular trail is the east side of the first loop. 
I believe this is because it's a relatively flat and easy hike. I would say 90%
of the folks that go there start out going down that trail.

Options to alleviate congestion there would be to a)--widen the trail to allow
bikers to pass hikers without one or the other going off the trail, b)--make
the west side trail that is already wider the multiuse trail, or 3)--provide a
separate multiuse trail that ties in past the first loop.  The first loop
becomes the 'nature hike' trail that will suit the majority of folks that go
there.

MEF
- any thought here?



I any regards - I will review the draft management plan and will look forward
to your response.



Regards,

Mark Feilinger

Funny story, I am a massage therapy student in FC and I worked the clinic on Friday of last week. I was assigned to work on Meegan for my third massage of the evening, so I got to put a face to a name. She's an avid cyclist I found out and takes a positive view to what we are trying to do. She recommended that we put together an advocacy group and I would have to agree. Then we can be on the ground level for some of these decisions and learn of new open space plans.

I read in the paper of two new open areas, one in FC, one near Livermore, but the access was unclear. Things like this we could there at the begining to help gain more access for bikes. So I think I'll talk to Larry at Mt High, Squeaky Wheel and others to get something going soon.

[LeeMan]

Hi Chad:

I'd be interesting in helping if possible.

I live near Berthoud, so Loveland is near and dear to me.

I've been in several bike groups, including Medicine Wheel, Diamond Peaks, and BOA. I can help with politics, trail work, or bike patrolling.

All we need is a place to get together and a time. Oh yeah, and somebody to step up and take charge. :-)

[jonny boy]

I used to be semi-active in BOA, when I lived in Boulder. Now living in Longmont it's not as convenient, and I don't feel the same connection. And Northern Boulder County has some nice trails that would be worth fighting for, especially Hall Ranch, Heil to Hall connector, the aforementioned developments with Devil's Backbone, etc. I think the potential for commuter bike paths is huge also, I often ride the dirt roads West of town to get some exercise, and having better access across town would be nice, without having to ride on Hover or other busy streets.

So please continue to post to this thread, and perhaps something will come of it?

[chad1433]

Originally Posted by jonny boy

I used to be semi-active in BOA, when I lived in Boulder. Now living in Longmont it's not as convenient, and I don't feel the same connection. And Northern Boulder County has some nice trails that would be worth fighting for, especially Hall Ranch, Heil to Hall connector, the aforementioned developments with Devil's Backbone, etc. I think the potential for commuter bike paths is huge also, I often ride the dirt roads West of town to get some exercise, and having better access across town would be nice, without having to ride on Hover or other busy streets.

So please continue to post to this thread, and perhaps something will come of it?

I've been in touch with a woman at the Larimer Cnty Open Space office about a trail day at Devil's Backbone. I'll post more info as we get closer to the date (Oct 23rd, if I remember correctly). This could be a good first event for our new group...

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Good idea. That'll be a good chance for us to meet each other & begin to formulate a plan of action.