What's the point of cyclocross?

[mtbnachos]

I saw a guy riding a cyclocross bike on a local trail that's fairly technical. My thought was "One bad hit and his bike is totaled or hello tacoed wheel." So it's a combo mtb/road but I don't see the relevance.

[Joshua Pattersnap]

Originally Posted by mtbnachos

I saw a guy riding a cyclocross bike on a local trail that's fairly technical. My thought was "One bad hit and his bike is totaled or hello tacoed wheel." So it's a combo mtb/road but I don't see the relevance.

Oh Gawd, where do I start.

In my humble opinion, cyclocross is the purest form of bicycle racing. There's no hiding in a peloton, and those who are in the upper echelons of the sport are masters of fitness and technical prowess.

I often ride my CX bike on our in town 8-mile stretch of singletrack because, like singlespeeding, it makes old trails fun and challenging again.

As for tacoing a wheel, it may come as a surprise to you just how much abuse a road/cx wheel wheel can take -- the hub flanges on many road hubs are wider than on a disc-specific mountain bike hub, in some cases this will yield a stronger, more resilient build. Our wheels are plenty strong, it's our brakes that suck

Also,
try CX racing, it's addictive.
...After you begin racing please subscribe to our magazine so that I can finish putting myself through grad school.

XoXo,

Josh

[momentum...]

What's the point of mountain biking?

I agree with JP, riding a cyclocross bike on trails is fun and will do a world of good for your bike handling skills. No relying on big tyres and suspension - you need to pick good lines and commit to them. The brakes suck though, so I put a disc up front and now I'm happy!

[perttime]

It is just another approach to cycling, and it is a lot older than mountain biking.

Those bikes are not just weight weenie road bikes with rough tyres either. They are built to take some abuse and the rest is up to the rider's skill, as it is in all sorts of cycling.

Also, in many areas, a cyclocross bike is the ideal multipurpose bike (commuting, dirt roads, pavement, trails). It may not be ideal for pavement or rough trails but it still is a do-it-all machine.

[n plus one]

The point of riding cyclocross on mtb trails is the grin.

A pure unadulterated maniac-killer-gets-his-first-taste-of-hot-chainsaw-action grin...

[Jeromelo]

For me it's my winter ride. Those skinny knobby tires on my rig just plow though the snow....I'm way faster the cx bike on those long rides to work...

[ernesto_from_Wisconsin]

you should see people's faces when they see me riding the technical stuff at the local trails.

[JonathanGennick]

Originally Posted by ernesto_from_Wisconsin

you should see people's faces when they see me riding the technical stuff at the local trails.

Yeah, I had a guy smoke me at Marquette Mountain not so long ago on a cross bike. Met him briefly at an intersection. He took off ahead of me. Never saw him again; never caught up with him. The guy had skills. And with that lighter bike, he sure could move.

Respect!

[mtroy]

I did a mountainbike endurance race where the winner was a cyclocross animal. He won the race on that cross bike, skinny tires and all. Simply amazing.

Respect.

[JeroenK]

Do a cyclocross race on a cyclocross bike, you'll get the point . Some people take the same bikes to terrain they are not suited for, just because they can, because they have no other bike, to improve their riding skills or just because of plain masochism.

Most of you guys seem to understand the relevance of singlespeed, so understanding CX is well within reach .

Also, keep in mind that most cyclocross riders are racers, while most 29er riders are recreational riders with beer bellies, in need of extra tire footprint to aid their weight and lack of technical riding skills .

OK, I did not mean that last bit , but chances are some cyclocross racer is just having a lot of fun on challenging terrain, while some 29er riders are so busy explaining their big wheeled ride is the best tool for the job, they forgot in most cases the biggest difference is in the rider.

[2xPneu]

It's a lot of fun, and if you add fixed to the drops and skinnies it gets even funner.

[JSD303]

As others have stated, it is a great tool for training in the Winter in places with snow (like here in Colorado)... I use it to ride the road/path to trails that are 15miles away - ride the trails and then ride back home. I also commute on it to work here and there. They really are great all-around bikes and handle most terrain surprisingly well. I also love to mix it up between bikes (full suspension, singlespeed, crossbike) depending on the mood or time constraints I have. They are all fun and challenging in different ways. I think what I'm saying is, "riding bikes is fun - you should try a cx bike!"

JP makes a great magazine. Let's help him get through grad school!

[power-san]

My son rides.. he's only 7.. he can beat the pants off some men on the trails..
Anyways.. one day we saw a cyclo on the trail and he said "what a retard riding a roadie on the trails"

I bet those things are bad ass fast..

[Pabs]

What's the point of riding a bike? I get on it, I pedal, and eventually end up right back home where I started. Which makes me wonder what's the point of waking up? I just eventually go back to sleep. Which makes me wonder what's ther point of asking exstential quesitons? I just ask more.

[Nat]

Originally Posted by Joshua Pattersnap

In my humble opinion, cyclocross is the purest form of bicycle racing.

Claims of relative "purity" make me want to vomit.

[shishku]

Please don't post questions like this. You will regret it when you have more cycling knowledge.

[mdb1974]

whatever

[Joshua Pattersnap]

Originally Posted by Nat

Claims of relative "purity" make me want to vomit.

Thanks for sharing, cyclocross racing has that same effect on people.

[power-san]

Originally Posted by shishku

Please don't post questions like this. You will regret it when you have more cycling knowledge.

That's a little extreme to say..
Many people wonder about these ho mo looking bikes, pretty acceptable question if you axe me..

[Joshua Pattersnap]

Originally Posted by shishku

Please don't post questions like this. You will regret it when you have more cycling knowledge.

I thought it was an OK question.

I'm sure there are others wondering the same thing.
Cyclocross racing is somewhat of an outlier in cycling. It's much like triathalons, in that CX exists because of racing. No one I know goes out and swims, then bikes and then runs and just as a hobby without actually being a triathlete.

Few recreational riders decide, "I'm going to ride my bike full throttle in a mile long circuit though this city park in mid-November. I'm going to jump off, hop back on and repeat this for the the next hour."

So I definitely see the "why" aspect.

To learn more check out RBR's CX forum: http://forums.roadbikereview.com/forumdisplay.php?f=47

Also check out the CX Magazine forum at: http://cxmagazine.ning.com/


Cheers,

Josh

[rkj__]

Yesterday I rode over 100km on my CX bike. This included riding road to get to the trails, where I met up with my sister on her MTB. I am a more experienced rider than my sister, and can easily pull away from her on climbs and anything technical. Being on my CX bike helped to tame my riding a little bit. It made it more fun for me to ride at her speed. It makes the same trails more challenging. New challenges are fun. CX bikes are great for combined road/trail rides. I love my new CX bike, and I have not even tried racing it yet.

For more pictures from the ride, go here: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=428615

[mdb1974]

but seriously, I don't get the concept of "it's good because it makes trails more challenging," A walmart magna special does that quite nicely for a lot less money.

It's the advantage of CX I am interested in.

[perttime]

Advantage of CX bikes?

It is great for CX racing, of course.
It is also great if you want to ride elsewhere than just trails. You can ride a MTB on roads too but a CX bike is more efficient (faster) on dirt roads and pavement.
The frame shape is good for carrying too, if you ever need to carry a bike...

[rkj__]

Originally Posted by mdb1974

but seriously, I don't get the concept of "it's good because it makes trails more challenging," A walmart magna special does that quite nicely for a lot less money.

It's the advantage of CX I am interested in.

a Wallmart special will break, and end the enjoyment.

Like i said, CX bikes are great for rides that mix in trails with a lot of road miles.

With some slick tires, adjusted gearing, and moving some spacers from under the stem to above it, a CX bike can make a very good road bike as well. CX geometry is more comfortable than a full on road bike. Many commuters prefer the more comfortable geometry.

I had a road bike, with really skinny tires, but I would ride across the city, and find new trails that i was tempted to explore. The road bike was not so good for that.

Originally Posted by perttime

Advantage of CX bikes?

The frame shape is good for carrying too, if you ever need to carry a bike...

example


yeah, i know, if i was on my squishy bike i could have just rode through...

[ziggurat22]

First off, as others have mentioned, cyclocross racing is a blast to watch and do, it's been around long before mountain biking, and you need technical skills and strength to be good, much like in mtb racing.

Off of the race course, CX bikes might be the most versatile bike out there.You can ride it equally effective on the road and off road. Mountain bikes and road bikes are extremely specific in their usage, both doing their specified jobs well in their given areas, but take them out of those conditions, and you'll find both are terribly inadequate (e.g. a mountain bike doing road duty is cumbersome and inefficient, not to mention, it looks ridiculous, and a road bike on the trails is simply untenable). A CX bike can pretty much do it all fairly well. If I could commute to work on a bike, it would be on a CX bike, not a mtb or a road bike.

[unsub1]

Cyclocross is my very favorite sport to watch. It's like rally racing for bikes. I always make it a point when vacationing in the fall and winter to go see CX races around the US and world. I have never raced CX but I've been riding the bikes on technical trails, road and commuting since 1997. They climb really really well and are ultra-durable. My last 2 bikes have had disk brakes and wheels I can interchange with my 29ers.

Also, I'm a big believer in having bikes that don't necessarily make riding easier. Lots of people choose SS for its simplicity while I ride a 1x9 Monster X offroad on the hardest trails I can find. The drop bars can be a challenge but it's really enjoyable to me. If I want an easy day, I'll just stay off my bike altogether.

[CruzSS]

Originally Posted by mdb1974

but seriously, I don't get the concept of "it's good because it makes trails more challenging," A walmart magna special does that quite nicely for a lot less money.

It's the advantage of CX I am interested in.

All kinds of bikes are great and have their purpose. Interesting thing about CX bikes on trails is that you find that it is often the fastest way around many trails. After many years of experience I have found that for a lot of trails you don't need suspension or big tires on all but a small percentage of the route. Plus if you need to ride on pavement for part of the ride you get a nimble and fast rig for those portions. Definitely helps increase your skills and you'll notice you ride better lines when you get back on your MTB. Some trails I wouldn't want to use my CX bike just like I wouldn't want to take my full suss geared bike on a road century, but sometimes you just like the challenge of riding a skinny-tired bike down a trail that it wasn't designed for

[JohnR1]

What's the point of telemarking? What's the point of skate skiing?
What's the point of trail running? What's the point of running on a track?

All similiar but a little difference makes it more interesting!

Different strokes for different folks!

and a cross bike is a fun way to travel!

Those who learned how to mountain bike with rigid forks learn how to handle there bikes with their bodies. Well imagine if you learned to ride a with skinny tires. Skills!

[mtbnachos]

Cool, I'm just looking at it from a technical expertise viewpoint. So it's sort of like SS mtb where you carefully pick your line and roll but with a cross frame. But it's a dying breed? I only see 99% of the time roadies and mountainees.

[mtbnachos]

I really wonder what would happen if I took a Walmart Magna and head to a trail like say....Noble Canyon??

[GreenLightGo]

Go try it once or twice - it's a bunch of fun to do if just for the challenge. Local scene in Montgomery is not too big but very welcoming group of guys - so I was able to join in one of their early season practice sessions last fall. I rode my SS hardtail (Rook) setup 32-20. After 45 minutes - I was baked, these guys went all out for 45 minutes. It was early and there was no mud or water obstacles either - just grass, fire road and tarmac - enough to get the flavor and an appreciation for the sport.

BTW - the bike I'm currently jonesing for is a Voodoo Wazoo - steel CX frame with disc mounts. It seems like a very versatile machine, something I could easily set up with inverted Mary bars or my inverted Titec H-bars and use some existing components - though a true selling point for the Salsa La Cruz (besides the hot orange color) is the 135mm rear dropout. Oh so many cool options....

[thecrazyfinn]

Originally Posted by mdb1974

but seriously, I don't get the concept of "it's good because it makes trails more challenging," A walmart magna special does that quite nicely for a lot less money.

It's the advantage of CX I am interested in.

CX is all about the suck. It originated as off-season racing for serious road racers in France 40-50 years ago, so they could keep in race shape during the winter.

It's about snow and mud and the ability to dismount, run, jump an obstacle and remount on the fly in rain, snow and muck, and to perservere through all that suck to the end of the race. Frankly it makes standard XC racing look like child's play (cancelling a CX race for crappy weather is considered silly). Much like endurance racing, just made quicker by adding more suckage.

Riding normal singletrack on a CX bike is exactly what they're for. It just takes more skill than riding the same thing on a burly MTB with fat tires. Not the same sort of challenging as that walmart bike (which sucks because its heavy and the geometry sucks and rewards brute strength) but challenging in that you have a light bike with very precise handling that you need to thread between the obstacles.

It's pretty much the classic NORBA XC race bike taken to the logical extreme. In fact it's kind of ironic that the NORBA XC type bikes developed into something that is little more than the much older cross bike with flat bars, smaller wheels and slightly fatter semi-slick tires.

[thecrazyfinn]

Originally Posted by ziggurat22

First off, as others have mentioned, cyclocross racing is a blast to watch and do, it's been around long before mountain biking, and you need technical skills and strength to be good, much like in mtb racing.

Off of the race course, CX bikes might be the most versatile bike out there.You can ride it equally effective on the road and off road. Mountain bikes and road bikes are extremely specific in their usage, both doing their specified jobs well in their given areas, but take them out of those conditions, and you'll find both are terribly inadequate (e.g. a mountain bike doing road duty is cumbersome and inefficient, not to mention, it looks ridiculous, and a road bike on the trails is simply untenable). A CX bike can pretty much do it all fairly well. If I could commute to work on a bike, it would be on a CX bike, not a mtb or a road bike.

Interestingly, if you've got an older NORBA-geometry hardtail or rigid MTB it can be quite easily converted to a 26" cross bike. Throw drops, aero levers and barcon's on there and some skinny semi-slicks and you have a slightly undergeared cross bike. Add an old 110BCD standard crank with 46/36/26 rings and a 9spd 12-27 road cassette and you essentially have the same gearing.

My commuter ride is a Rockhopper setup this way (albeit with 1.5" slicks instead of semi-slicks) works very well apart from the issues inherent to 26" wheels.

[rkj__]

Originally Posted by thecrazyfinn

CX is all about the suck.

Your post makes me want to do a CX race. I'm always so busy in the fall with school though...

[unsub1]

Cyclocross is more popular than ever. The CX National Championships had record attendance last year. It's huge. I went to the World Cup #1 event in Aigle, Switzerland in 2006. It was considered to be a small event but it was awesome. Those guys are so fast.

Here's a clip I shot. It was at the UCI world headquarters.

Originally Posted by mtbnachos

But it's a dying breed? I only see 99% of the time roadies and mountainees.

[Motivated]

A 29er is a cyclocross bike.

[unsub1]

A road bike is a downhill bike.

Originally Posted by Motivated

A 29er is a cyclocross bike.

[thecrazyfinn]

Originally Posted by Motivated

A 29er is a cyclocross bike.

Sure, if it's rigid, running drop bars, canti's, high gearing, weighs under 20lbs, has skinny tires (37mm or smaller) a frame designed for over the shoulder carry and steepish angles.

In reality, 29ers only really match up in the geometry area, and even then it's marginal (Cross bikes run shorter forks & front ends since they don't need to worry about suspension correction, and they run much less tire clearance which allows for the use of road compact cranks running 50/34 or 48/34 rings rather than MTB compact or 4-bolt cranks with much smaller rings).

[serious]

Ever heard of the expression "jack of all trades and master of none"? Well, that is a cyclocross bike for you. It does not excell on or off the road, but if you need to do both with the same bike, it is the best choice.

[Entrenador]

Originally Posted by rkj__

I am a more experienced rider than my sister, and can easily pull away from her on climbs and anything technical. Being on my CX bike helped to tame my riding a little bit. It made it more fun for me to ride at her speed.

I sold my road bike a few years ago for several reasons, comfort being the biggest reason. My bike fit me pretty well I think, and was comfortable while cranking along. Riding solo was fun and a good workout, but while coasting or pedaling lightly, soft-tissue pressure became less comfortable. As such, I found that only within a certain cadence /KW rate was the bike comfy. Fair enough -- a bike is meant to be pedaled, so I made the best of it. But riding with others presented challenges, as I was always too fast or too slow to be comfy in the saddle while staying with a group. I'd often have to upshift and get out of the saddle just to get the blood flowing again.

I think for this reason, MTBs are more suitable for recreational group rides with a range of fitness -- the riding position and the saddles are generally more comfortable than drop-bar bikes, and as such allow for a wider range of exertion within an acceptable comfort-level range. I can ride hard and fast, or I can take it easy, neither of which generate the levels of discomfort that I found while riding road bikes.

So back to CX bikes and partner rides: Do you find that you can ride below your fitness level and still be comfortable on one, or is there a cadence/effort sweetspot?

[mtbnachos]

Thanks for the vid. Those guys were hauling a$$ and it looks seriously aerobic! That little Shimano hop board looks fun to go over.

[thecrazyfinn]

Originally Posted by serious

Ever heard of the expression "jack of all trades and master of none"? Well, that is a cyclocross bike for you. It does not excell on or off the road, but if you need to do both with the same bike, it is the best choice.

I'd have to disagree. While Cross bikes makes excellent general-purpose bikes, they evolved for a very specific purpose and do that better than anything else. They weren't designed as jack of all trades bikes (those would be Hybrids or fat tire equipped Touring bikes, which do the jack of all trades thing better than cross bikes, mostly due to better gearing and frames designed for racks).

Cross bikes are designed for going fast on mixed surface, mixed condition courses requiring dismounts and shouldering the bike to get over frequent obstacles and also requiring extreme reliability in wet, muddy conditions. And they do that very, very well, arguably better than the similar NORBA-geometry XC race MTB of the mid-90's (which are very similar in geometry and often also in build to cross bikes).

What differences there are between cross and race-bred XC MTB's are mostly a case of tradition(drop bars, suspension, wheel size), race rules (UCI cross rules restrict tire sizes, brake types and more) and differences in course design (CX courses are designed with more high-speed sections and forced dismounts, XC tends to have more difficult off-road climbs and are designed to be ridden whole-course).

[rkj__]

Originally Posted by 105millimetersofpleasure

I sold my road bike a few years ago for several reasons, comfort being the biggest reason. My bike fit me pretty well I think, and was comfortable while cranking along. Riding solo was fun and a good workout, but while coasting or pedaling lightly, soft-tissue pressure became less comfortable. As such, I found that only within a certain cadence /KW rate was the bike comfy. Fair enough -- a bike is meant to be pedaled, so I made the best of it. But riding with others presented challenges, as I was always too fast or too slow to be comfy in the saddle while staying with a group. I'd often have to upshift and get out of the saddle just to get the blood flowing again.

I think for this reason, MTBs are more suitable for recreational group rides with a range of fitness -- the riding position and the saddles are generally more comfortable than drop-bar bikes, and as such allow for a wider range of exertion within an acceptable comfort-level range. I can ride hard and fast, or I can take it easy, neither of which generate the levels of discomfort that I found while riding road bikes.

So back to CX bikes and partner rides: Do you find that you can ride below your fitness level and still be comfortable on one, or is there a cadence/effort sweetspot?

Before you asked, I'd never even considered the idea of being less comfortable on a bike because i was riding below my fitness level.

You can put any MTB saddle you like on a CX bike of course. My CX bike has many spacers under the stem, which bring the bars to a pretty comfortable position. You have 3 choices of hand positions: top of the bar, hoods, drops, and adjusting between positions helps the comfort factor. Overall though, I'd have to say my full suspension XC bike with ergon grips is way more comfortable all around.

[thecrazyfinn]

Originally Posted by 105millimetersofpleasure

I sold my road bike a few years ago for several reasons, comfort being the biggest reason. My bike fit me pretty well I think, and was comfortable while cranking along. Riding solo was fun and a good workout, but while coasting or pedaling lightly, soft-tissue pressure became less comfortable. As such, I found that only within a certain cadence /KW rate was the bike comfy. Fair enough -- a bike is meant to be pedaled, so I made the best of it. But riding with others presented challenges, as I was always too fast or too slow to be comfy in the saddle while staying with a group. I'd often have to upshift and get out of the saddle just to get the blood flowing again.

I think for this reason, MTBs are more suitable for recreational group rides with a range of fitness -- the riding position and the saddles are generally more comfortable than drop-bar bikes, and as such allow for a wider range of exertion within an acceptable comfort-level range. I can ride hard and fast, or I can take it easy, neither of which generate the levels of discomfort that I found while riding road bikes.

So back to CX bikes and partner rides: Do you find that you can ride below your fitness level and still be comfortable on one, or is there a cadence/effort sweetspot?

Sounds like you had bike fit issues more than anything else. Race-type fits aren't exactly comfortable, be it an XC race MTB or a go-fast roadie, the bars are just too far below the saddle. Get the bars up to saddle height and ditch the butt-hatched uberlight saddles and suddenly the bike will be way more comfortable.

[mgersib]

Originally Posted by serious

Ever heard of the expression "jack of all trades and master of none"? Well, that is a cyclocross bike for you. It does not excell on or off the road, but if you need to do both with the same bike, it is the best choice.

Actually, if you're racing a gravel grinder, like the Dirty Kanza 200, or the Trans Iowa, then it's not the "Master of None." It's simply "The Master."

Count how many road bikes or mountain bikes you see in the picture below. This is the front of the pack at the Dirty Kanza, 2008. In the end, I finished fifth, and it wasn't the bike's fault...

My 'cross bikes end up being the most-ridden bikes in my stable, most of the time. They're the most versatile, and on most of the trails we have around here, they're super fun to rail dirt on too.

[Joshua Pattersnap]

Hells yes.

[mgersib]

Originally Posted by Joshua Pattersnap

Hells yes.

I knew you'd like that one, my friend... We're on the same page.

And even though I love racing mountain bikes, there are few things that compare to the absolute thrill of cyclocross racing. It's pure pain, but it's also about as much action and fun as you can cram into an hour of time.

[Dirt_Diggler]

cross rocks! there is nothing more fun than a cross race and no bike better for it. the best all around riders (and athletes) are those that excel at cyclocross. its the decathalon of cycling. strength, endurance, handling, athleticism, suffering, and intensity. try it, you'll like it. well, if you like feeling like you're about to puke or passout for the entire race.

[mtbnachos]

Thanks for all responses gents, did not mean to open a can o' worms just curiosity.

[fulcrum1]

It really is a jack of all trades type bike. Perfect for me being out in the West Coast/Bay Area.