Landis throwing his hat in the NUE ring

[teamdicky]

No comment from me. Just news.

From http://www.cyclingnews.com/mtb.php?i...8/jan18mtbnews

"Floyd Landis has accepted an invitation from the National Ultra-Endurance (NUE) MTB Series to compete in their eight-race series in 2008. Heading into its third year, the National Ultra-Endurance MTB Series features a schedule of 100-mile races held across the United States.

"We are pleased that Floyd has accepted our invitation to come out and race at our events," said NUE Series Director Ryan O'Dell, "These are the kinds of events where everyone is welcome, all ages and abilities. Having Floyd means we can generate additional exposure and attract sponsors that will help us further build our unique brand of racing."

In 2007, Landis raced the Shenandoah Mountain 100, which was the NUE Series finale. Riding for Smith & Nephew - BHRhip.com, he finished third behind Jeff Schalk (Trek / Volkswagen East Factory) and Harlan Price (Independent Fabrication). He also finished second at the Leadville 100, which was not part of the NUE Series.

"The great experience I had last year was a big part of my decision to commit to the whole series," said Landis, "I had a great time and felt very comfortable. It really gets you connected with why we all chose to ride bikes. The races are fun, healthy and very competitive and the racers, staff and sponsors for these events are truly great people. I can't wait for the first race in April."

Landis won the Tour de France in July of 2006, but organizers later stripped him of his title following a positive doping test for testosterone. Original runner-up Oscar Pereiro was awarded the title in October of 2007. Landis' bid to overturn his positive doping test before a hearing involving the US Anti-doping Agency (USADA) was unsuccessful when an arbitration panel ruled to uphold his positive test results and subsequent two-year competition ban in September.

However, Landis is still awaiting the outcome of his final appeal before the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS), with a decision expected in March. In the meantime, he has been serving his suspension, which applies to sanctioned competition. The NUE series is sanctioned by neither the UCI nor USA Cycling.

A source close to Landis told Cyclingnews that Landis was fully committed to the NUE Series regardless of the outcome before CAS. "He's commited to his sponsors and the NUE Series will be his primary competitive forum for 2008. Whether CAS overturns the decision against Landis, it doesn't change his competitive focus for the year. The NUE series is an opportunity for Floyd to keep himself in race form and to continue to provide value to his sponsors who have stood by him."

In addition to attracting many local and regional grassroots racers, the NUE series' growing profile is drawing over time more elite level racers, many of whom are subjected to anti-doping testing out of competition and at other competitions.

When asked if there were any plans to add anti-doping testing for the NUE series, co-organizer, Garth Prosser said to Cyclingnews, "No, we don't have that kind of money. This is old school mountain biking. We could make more money by recycling the beer cans from after the race than from organizing the race." Before making his reputation in the professional road scene, Landis was one of those "old school" racers on the American mountain bike circuit.

The 2008 NUE Series will open April 19 in Tennessee with the Cohutta 100 and will wrap up on September 6 in California with the Tahoe-Sierra 100. See the full NUE series schedule here.

The 2007 series was won by Chris Eatough (Trek / VW), who is expected to defend his title in 2008 although he could not be reached for confirmation."

[tamen00]

Why let the cheater race at all? Why ruin endurance mtn biking like road racing by inviting people like Floyd to race... dissapointing!

[playpunk]

i think i'm gonna order myself a DOPERS SUCK Jersey.

[GT2005]

I think there is a lot of room for doubt about whether Floyd Landis is actually a doper or was the victim of sloppy science in the lab. I think the test results were some kind of anomoly or in error. Since this NUE series isn't sanctioned, what is the harm? And even if it were, what would be the harm while Landis appeals to CAS? -GT2005

[AC/BC]

Originally Posted by tamen00

Why let the cheater race at all? Why ruin endurance mtn biking like road racing by inviting people like Floyd to race... dissapointing!

I think there is doping going on in endurance MTB as well.

[GT2005]

Originally Posted by AC/BC

I think there is doping going on in endurance MTB as well.

But not everyone does it, and I think it would give Landis a chance to prove he rides clean. I agree that doping is quite pervasive. I read an an article in the German magazine Spiegel recently and one cyclist who was banned pretty much said that it was an expected and accepted (if you didn't get caught) thing to do, otherwise you would not even get a place on a top team. It actually sounded like he didn't even think he had done anything wrong except fail the test. Fascinating stuff for a long-time TDF junkie (fan) like myself. -GT2005

[brad h]

Originally Posted by AC/BC

I think there is doping going on in endurance MTB as well.

Really? I always thought it was an economic issue. Doping is expensive. There is a lot of money in big time road racing so doping makes sense economically, same as baseball. There is no money in endurance racing. That's why I assume its a relatively clean sport.

[playpunk]

Originally Posted by GT2005

But not everyone does it, and I think it would give Landis a chance to prove he rides clean. I agree that doping is quite pervasive. I read an an article in the German magazine Spiegel recently and one cyclist who was banned pretty much said that it was an expected and accepted (if you didn't get caught) thing to do, otherwise you would not even get a place on a top team. It actually sounded like he didn't even think he had done anything wrong except fail the test. Fascinating stuff for a long-time TDF junkie (fan) like myself. -GT2005

how is racing a series where there is NO testing giving Floid a chance to prove he's clean? all it proves is that he likes to ride bikes. that's good, but who cares? Its not like I'm a top rider, and he's taking money out of my pocket, but I just feel like disgraced, convicted dopers should stay away from competitive cycling, period, for the duration of their suspension.

and if you think Floid is clean, you should ride a tandem with Tyler's vanishing twin.

[PeT]

Originally Posted by GT2005

I think there is a lot of room for doubt about whether Floyd Landis is actually a doper or was the victim of sloppy science in the lab.

I know that Landis was the victim of sloppy science -- heck, even the two guys on the USADA panel who voted against Landis said so. They just thought there was enough "untainted" evidence to uphold the finding. I would disagree, but then I'm just a lab scientist and they're lawyers...

I don't know if Floyd doped or not, I just know that in my professional judgement the science and methodology sucked and if you had your health and medical treatment dependent upon that laboratory your heirs would be living off the malpractice settlement they obtained upon your death. If it matters, I also believe (based upon the scientific evidence I've seen) that Tyler Hamilton doped (despite how much he loved his dog "Tugboat").

I think it's great that Floyd's riding and I must say Leadville had a little extra energy with Landis there. Despite my opinion concerning Hamilton's use of drugs, I'd be happy to ride, race, and revel with him too -- I just wouldn't want him dating my daughter...

[playpunk]

Originally Posted by PeT

I know that Landis was the victim of sloppy science -- heck, even the two guys on the USADA panel who voted against Landis said so. They just thought there was enough "untainted" evidence to uphold the finding. I would disagree, but then I'm just a lab scientist and they're lawyers...

I don't know if Floyd doped or not, I just know that in my professional judgement the science and methodology sucked and if you had your health and medical treatment dependent upon that laboratory your heirs would be living off the malpractice settlement they obtained upon your death. If it matters, I also believe (based upon the scientific evidence I've seen) that Tyler Hamilton doped (despite how much he loved his dog "Tugboat").

I think it's great that Floyd's riding and I must say Leadville had a little extra energy with Landis there. Despite my opinion concerning Hamilton's use of drugs, I'd be happy to ride, race, and revel with him too -- I just wouldn't want him dating my daughter...

I hear what you're saying, and your use of capital letters is superior to mine. Here's the rub: I don't believe the physical evidence against Floyd is airtight, my gut still tells me he's a doper. So even though I think that the process should be better, and the standards of evidence higher, I think Floyd deserves his punishment. His post-positive test interviews, and his attempt to keep his other (previously negative) samples from being tested told the story. He just looked and sounded guilty. I'm a bill collector, and a future attorney (I hope) so I generally know if people are lying, and I trust my gut on this case.

I also know that this is irrational, and I'm OK with that. Floyd should not be racing his bike, period, while he is banned. Respect the sport.

[Rockin]

Originally Posted by AC/BC

I think there is doping going on in endurance MTB as well.

You mean beyond the level of beer?

Do I care if Floyd shows up at a race I am at? No. My feeling are just hurt that I didn't get a personal invitation. I'm going to go find a place to cry now...

[Flat Ark]

I would like to believe that he didn't synthetically boost his testosterone levels, but I find it difficult to believe that he could struggle so TERRIBLY one day and come back the very next morning a "new man" and just blow EVERYONE off of the mountain. Having said that, if he wants to race and the event organizers/promoters are ok with it, I could care less. Regardless of how you feel I think it would be poor form to show up in a "dopers suck" jersey, but that's just me. I try to take the high road.

[California L33]

Originally Posted by Flat Ark

I would like to believe that he didn't synthetically boost his testosterone levels, but I find it difficult to believe that he could struggle so TERRIBLY one day and come back the very next morning a "new man" and just blow EVERYONE off of the mountain. Having said that, if he wants to race and the event organizers/promoters are ok with it, I could care less. Regardless of how you feel I think it would be poor form to show up in a "dopers suck" jersey, but that's just me. I try to take the high road.

In Floyd's defense, his positive was for a very small amount of synthetic, not enough to have any measurable effect- his total testosterone level was in the normal range. There is an old wives' tale among cyclists that a massive dose of testosterone after a day you bonk helps you recover, but even that isn't proven.

What that very small dose could indicate is a small mistake in a massive doping program, which is why I think they wouldn't give him the benefit of the doubt. And it would work something like this- Floyd takes massive doses of testosterone during training to build muscle. Before the Tour he begins storing his own blood for blood doping later, only he hasn't allowed enough time for all the synthetic testosterone to get out of his system. He bonks on Stage 16, gives himself a blood transfusion with his own blood (which would certainly de-bonk him) and goes on to wipe the mountain with everybody on Stage 17.

On the other hand, bonking is by nature temporary. It's not unusual to recover in a few hours, and as dramatic as that win seemed, the peloton was disorganized and didn't chase for a long time because they thought he was out. He had a power meter on his bike, and his break-away power was pretty dramatic, but after that it wasn't all that unusual for what a top level Tour pro can generate. And even his ten minute break away was something like 50 watts less than Lance's 1 hour time trial capability (though Lance outweighs him- not sure about the power to weight ratio).

I can't say whether Floyd doped or not, but he was robbed. The UCI scientists violated their own rules for testing. If the rulebook means nothing everyone should show up with 6.2 kilogram cantilever bikes and expect not get called for it.

[speed metal]

I would say there is doping in all forms and levels of cycling. There are plenty of cat4 or sport racer that make plenty of money and could get steroids, EPO and etc. rather easily. Heck! I work with a guy that that was doing nothing as far as competition and he was doing steroids. I could never figure that out.

[Cant Climb]

I hope he's clean and decimates the entire field.

Go Floyd !!

[sjanes]

According to the rule books Landis can compete in events not sanctioned by the World Anti Dope Code: http://www.wada-ama.org/rtecontent/document/code_v3.pdf see section 10.9

As far as the law is concerned, he can race the NUE. We all have subjective opinions, I have a problem with cheaters, I also have a problem with those who don't believe in giving a second chance. It's not worth harboring the hate. It eats away at a person and makes them bitter, I know several people who are mad at the world and take it out on those around them on a daily basis. I don't know if Landis doped or not, but if I were to pass him on the trail with a flat, I would offer him assistance just like I would anyone else.

If we were to take all the energy we use speculating and put that towards maitaining your local trail, and/or investing in your local juniors team, teaching them right from wrong, and how to make good decisions. Imagine what could happen.

Share the love....

[hairball_dh]

PeT, I gotta agree with you on all counts. First time for everything

[sean salach]

i just think it's funny that they took the title away from someone with a small amount of 'dope' in his blood and gave it to someone who i am 99.999% sure has more 'dope' in him than the state of florida.

[Scottytheoneandonly]

Originally Posted by AC/BC

I think there is doping going on in endurance MTB as well.

Endurance pros in the USA almost never get tested. When/if they do it's not at an endurance race. You can count on one hand the number of North American endurance races last year that had any doping controls at all, and I'm betting that they were all in Canadia. I am not aware of testing ever occuring at any of the NORBA ultra events, for example.

There are probably less than a dozen riders in North America who make a living racing Ultra MTB. When I call it a "living" I mean that in the liberal sense of the word. You can count on one hand all of them who have what the general public would consider a salaried "pro" contract.

Even if one or two of them were juicing, it wouldn't change that elite group much, if at all. There simply isn't any money in ultra mountain biking in the US, and hence a lot less to push large numbers of people to devote their time and resources to pulling a Rasmussen and spending a month prior to a race at altitude on some mountain somewhere with their doctor, coach and trainer in attendance. When I start hearing about stuff like that I'll worry.

Until then ultra mtbing is a grassroots sport. Plenty of room for everybody. I hope Floyd does the whole NUE series. He's a nice guy and he likes beer. That's the only test I care about.

[teamdicky]

Originally Posted by Scottytheoneandonly

Endurance pros in the USA almost never get tested...That's the only test I care about.

While I'm hardly making a living from racing I do enjoy doping from time to time just for the joy of puncturing my skin with needles and shrinking my testicles (my riding shorts fit better with smaller ballz). It would be neat if it enhanced my performance to boot.

Nobody said there would be a test.
I'll take the zero.

[Mike Brown]

I like it when the sun shines.

[extrmtao]

I guess we can't waffle on the races we peons want to do now. This is to surely attract attention and racers. What is the limit on Cohutta?

[mathewsen]

Originally Posted by California L33

On the other hand, bonking is by nature temporary. It's not unusual to recover in a few hours, and as dramatic as that win seemed, the peloton was disorganized and didn't chase for a long time because they thought he was out. He had a power meter on his bike, and his break-away power was pretty dramatic, but after that it wasn't all that unusual for what a top level Tour pro can generate. And even his ten minute break away was something like 50 watts less than Lance's 1 hour time trial capability (though Lance outweighs him- not sure about the power to weight ratio).

all of the above is true. i can speak from experience racing that on days when you're "not having a good day" there are several systems at play. respiratory, muscular, endocrine, etc.

sometimes it's one system limiting the others. when i have bad races b/c my respiratory is off, it actually rests my legs. the days i feel strongest are the days my legs (musceles) are ripped apart (sore) in following days. in other words, the bonk can actually give the muscular systems a break b/c they can't be fed enough to tear themselves apart. its very plausible this is what happened in landis' case. he was having a bad day from the beginning. not sure i would even call it a bonk per se. on that bad day, he rested, despite struggling.

on power in his breakaway and all that, the peloton let him go. he talked smack and they were like "whatever". before they realized he was serious it was over. in the end sastre and one or two others were taking time back from him anyway. it was the scenario that was brilliant, not necessarily the physical effort in that stage.

yes, maybe floyd got a raw deal relative to all others doping on the same roads, in the same race, but he got caught. everyone who races knows the rules. its kind of like back when we were all kids and drinking beer in highschool. most of the parents knew it was going on/everyone's doin' it and for the most part it was overlooked. the BIG no, no is getting caught. you bear the brunt of your entire circle of friends no matter if everyone is doing it or not. scapegoat is the term that comes to mind. the no 1 lesson in pro-cycling is never get caught! lance was that master, some say.

[sjanes]

Limit is 200: http://www.newleafadventures.com/cohuttahomenew.html

[Hollis]

I'm all for Drug Testing,
I spent $50 for a baggie full of oregano, that was harsh dude
Shoulda tested dat shat

[teamdicky]

Originally Posted by extrmtao

I guess we can't waffle on the races we peons want to do now. This is to surely attract attention and racers. What is the limit on Cohutta?

meh.
I want to waffle.
I am Belgian.

[mathewsen]

Originally Posted by teamdicky

meh.
I want to waffle.
I am Belgian.

but can you drink and frite like one?

[tomimcmillar]

floyd is too much of a pu$$y to
race 'em either single or fixed.

that's right, I'm
calling the b!tch out.

I ain't skeered.

[teamdicky]

Originally Posted by mathewsen

but can you drink and frite like one?

Hmmm.....

I suck at both, but I am quite a braggart.

[MichaelW]

I say let they guy race. who ever can step up their game to beat this guy can then call him out.

I for one really enjoy a good suffer fest, but I am not about to call a Tour champ a cheater until I can roll past him like he is stopped!!!!

[mathewsen]

Originally Posted by tomimcmillar

floyd is too much of a pu$$y to
race 'em either single or fixed.

that's right, I'm
calling the b!tch out.

I ain't skeered.

you're just trying to throw a cog in the wrenches

[Pedro K]

Originally Posted by tomimcmillar

floyd is too much of a pu$$y to
race 'em either single or fixed.

that's right, I'm
calling the b!tch out.

I ain't skeered.

You haven't seen this site have you http:///floydscogs.blogspot.com

[teamdicky]

Originally Posted by tomimcmillar

floyd is too much of a pu$$y to
race 'em either single or fixed.

that's right, I'm
calling the b!tch out.

I ain't skeered.

Man, just organize the FGORWC and let's settle this like men.

(with bacon grease, skorts, and safe words)

[tomimcmillar]

Originally Posted by teamdicky

Man, just organize the FGORWC and let's settle this like men.

(with bacon grease, skorts, and safe words)

damn Dicky, you're like little red satan on Bugs Bunny's shoulder.....

I'll talk to my people and have them
get in touch with your people.

[Rivet]

Originally Posted by tomimcmillar

floyd is too much of a pu$$y to
race 'em either single or fixed.

that's right, I'm
calling the b!tch out.

I ain't skeered.

Oh you mean he's too much of a pu$$y to race an EXCUSE bike. Fixies and singlespeeds are for people who are too afraid to line up and get beat fair and square. With an excuse bike you always have the bike as a reason you sucked. By the way, I've ridden with Floyd and he has mad skills, he'd punk you out in a second.

[zrm]

I don't know what Floyds financial situation is after the whole TDF/doping debacle, but he sure ain't racing the NUE series for the money.

If you ask me the guy is now racing because he loves bike racing and I gotta give him credit for that.How many other Euro pros would devote themselves to what is a just slightly above grass roots race series during a suspension? I think it will be great for the series.

Anyway, the guys big time pro road career is over, he'll be what, 36 in two years?

[rkj__]

Originally Posted by zrm

I don't know what Floyds financial situation is after the whole TDF/doping debacle, but he sure ain't racing the NUE series for the money.

If you ask me the guy is now racing because he loves bike racing and I gotta give him credit for that.How many other Euro pros would devote themselves to what is a just slightly above grass roots race series during a suspension? I think it will be great for the series.

Anyway, the guys big time pro road career is over, he'll be what, 36 in two years?

That is a nice way to focus on the positives. Yes, his image is trashed, but if he really loves racing his mountain bike, then I am fine with them letting him do so. If it can generate news, and help develop the sport, that is fine with me too.

[DeeEight]

Originally Posted by Rockin

You mean beyond the level of beer?

Do I care if Floyd shows up at a race I am at? No. My feeling are just hurt that I didn't get a personal invitation. I'm going to go find a place to cry now...

beyond the beer and the bud yes... but its the stuff they don't dope with on thr pro circuits anymore like EPO and the total low-budget stuff like people using 80 pounds of creatine powder a year.

[teamdicky]

Originally Posted by Rivet

Oh you mean he's too much of a pu$$y to race an EXCUSE bike. Fixies and singlespeeds are for people who are too afraid to line up and get beat fair and square. With an excuse bike you always have the bike as a reason you sucked. By the way, I've ridden with Floyd and he has mad skills, he'd punk you out in a second.

I know Tomi.
Tomi goes way back to the days when Floyd used to crush it East Coast style.
Tomi is teasing.

I'm also pretty sure Tomi never uses his bike as an excuse. He doesn't suck. He just rides what he rides.

Not looking to argue. I just think Tomi's sarcasm was masked by the lack of or . Gotta teach him to use smilies I guess.

[sjanes]

What the heck is that guy talking about?

[jimmyboy]

Let's not call the kettle black!! Just let the man race. Not one of can beat him with a stick anyway. I can't wait to see him at the Tahoe-Sierra 100. Be happy!!

[GT2005]

Originally Posted by playpunk

how is racing a series where there is NO testing giving Floid a chance to prove he's clean? all it proves is that he likes to ride bikes. that's good, but who cares? Its not like I'm a top rider, and he's taking money out of my pocket, but I just feel like disgraced, convicted dopers should stay away from competitive cycling, period, for the duration of their suspension.

and if you think Floid is clean, you should ride a tandem with Tyler's vanishing twin.

I didn't realize there wasn't any testing, but I do think Floyd is clean even without riding a tandem. -GT2005

[Pete Gurney]

Maybe Tyler should think about throwing his hat in the ring as well.

[mtbjedi1]

Call me crazy, but how can he even legally register? I believe his sanction is handed down fby USA Cycling, including NORBA. Are these not NORBA sanctioned races? Even if they're not, USA Cycling could do what they did to Tyler back when he was first sanctioned...There was a local crit series that Tyler was putting on, and while they couldn't keep him from riding his own unsanctioned event, USA Cycling surely sent letters to all of us in the field to remind us that competing with a sanctioned rider could lead to us being sanctioned! I'd hate to see this kind of one-upsmanship happen on the Ultra scene.

[playpunk]

Originally Posted by mtbjedi1

Call me crazy, but how can he even legally register? I believe his sanction is handed down fby USA Cycling, including NORBA. Are these not NORBA sanctioned races? Even if they're not, USA Cycling could do what they did to Tyler back when he was first sanctioned...There was a local crit series that Tyler was putting on, and while they couldn't keep him from riding his own unsanctioned event, USA Cycling surely sent letters to all of us in the field to remind us that competing with a sanctioned rider could lead to us being sanctioned! I'd hate to see this kind of one-upsmanship happen on the Ultra scene.

the NUE series isn't NORBA sanctioned, so he's ok. Still guilty as sin, but he can race. Anyways, all the drugs in the world can't make you go downhill faster, and this is mountain biking.

and floyd can doubtless kick my a$$ up and downhill, so it doesn't really matter for me.

[Pedro K]

Originally Posted by teamdicky

I know Tomi.
Tomi goes way back to the days when Floyd used to crush it East Coast style.
Tomi is teasing.

I'm also pretty sure Tomi never uses his bike as an excuse. He doesn't suck. He just rides what he rides.

Not looking to argue. I just think Tomi's sarcasm was masked by the lack of or . Gotta teach him to use smilies I guess.

Theres nothing worse then getting dropped by a guy on an "Excuse bike"

[MLH]

Cyling was dirty. Cycling is dirty. Cycling will be dirty. Nanodoping anybody? Unless Landis' cheating costs somebody a living or a sponsorship, who cares. It isn't exactly like The Wilderness 100 is broadcast on VS. or CBS, now is it? If he wants his disolve brain in EPO for the payout at Mohican, let him.

[pcdarks]

There were enough discrepancies in the testing in the Tour to ever legitimately claim that Landis doped. Anyone that does not see this was either screaming "dope" during his awesome comeback or is in the French press. Let the guy race. I think it is cool that he would continue racing. It is obviously his love.Can anyone here relate to that?

[GT2005]

Originally Posted by pcdarks

There were enough discrepancies in the testing in the Tour to ever legitimately claim that Landis doped. Anyone that does not see this was either screaming "dope" during his awesome comeback or is in the French press. Let the guy race. I think it is cool that he would continue racing. It is obviously his love.Can anyone here relate to that?

Well-written post. This is what I have been trying to say. Floyd Landis indeed has a passion for our sport! -GT2005

[California L33]

Originally Posted by mtbjedi1

There was a local crit series that Tyler was putting on, and while they couldn't keep him from riding his own unsanctioned event, USA Cycling surely sent letters to all of us in the field to remind us that competing with a sanctioned rider could lead to us being sanctioned!

That screams 'restraint of trade' for Tyler and every other rider.

[Caffeine Powered]

Originally Posted by playpunk

and if you think Floid is clean, you should ride a tandem with Tyler's vanishing twin.

I'll email you my endocrinology, biochem and chemistry notes. then you'll have a better understanding of what testosterone does and doesn't do.

I'd welcome a chance to race against Floyd.

[playpunk]

Originally Posted by Caffeine Powered

I'll email you my endocrinology, biochem and chemistry notes. then you'll have a better understanding of what testosterone does and doesn't do.

I'd welcome a chance to race against Floyd.

is it banned? yes. was it in his bloodstream for every sample from the tour? yes. I have a pretty good idea of what testosterone does and doesn't do, but he should not have been using it, period. it is a banned substance, so it doesn't really matter whether or not it helps.

I guess this whole thing is just frustrating to me because the way I see it banned racers shouldn't be racing. He's suspended - sure, it's pending arbitration with CAS, but he's not getting off. I really wouldn't care if he wasn't banned by USADA right now, but he is.

[dirtdirt223]

as long as there is fame, fortune to be had along with hugh egos, there will always be doping. do i care? no. i ride my bikes and could care less if the guy passing me is epo'ed to the max. i only worry about what i can control, which would be me.

and landis is a badass wheter he is a doper or not. i could take all the epo, juice and armstrong blood in the world and still not be able to ride with him for a second. he was kicking mofo's azz mtb racing back in the day wearing blue jeans and sweats due to his mennonite upbringing forbiding shorts. dude has some determination and my respect.

[jimmyboy]

Thank you dirtdirt23!!! Very well put. It's all about hard work and pushing yourself above the rest.
"If a man is ruled by his body he is a slave. But, if he is ruled by his brain he is a king"
Go Floyd.

[mvi]

The guy is suspended by the UCI/USCF.
Couldn't they potentially suspend all licensed riders that decide to compete against him in a non sanctioned race?
I,m pretty sure they can.

[Pedro K]

Originally Posted by mvi

The guy is suspended by the UCI/USCF.
Couldn't they potentially suspend all licensed riders that decide to compete against him in a non sanctioned race?
I,m pretty sure they can.

****, That would be cool, Infact Im going to buy a license this year just so I can be a badass and get suspended!!

[windall]

Originally Posted by Pedro K

****, That would be cool, Infact Im going to buy a license this year just so I can be a badass and get suspended!!

I was shocked to hear they did this at the time with Tyler. The mindset of let's punish the innocent to get at the guilty is just unbelievable to me.

I would mail my license back to them before they would have to ever suspend me if this came up.

[jac02000]

I'd hate to be in one of their shoes... can just imagine the pressure on those athletes at the top. Yah make it or break it based on one particular event. So, the pressures must be enormous from a racer's coach, managers, team mates...

Sure, it's not right cheating. But, when the stakes are high and the pressure on and the culture may be to cheat... what should we expect really.

I truely respect those that don't. And, they probably pay the ultimate price for being honest.

I would really like to know how many ways of cheating there are. I'm sure many cheat without getting caught.

Anyhow, at least Floyd is shinning some light (be it good or bad) to the NEU series...
its grass roots racing anyhow, so he ain't gonna win a million doing them.
Probably just doing it for the love of the sport, I hope.

see ya'll out there! train like a monkey in heat!
and, just say no to sticky lycra!

[tomimcmillar]

Originally Posted by Rivet

By the way, I've ridden with Floyd and he has mad skills, he'd punk you out in a second.

Can I touch you?

[seabass_II]

Why and how do we know he's entered the series already? Perhaps he'd get more credit if he just turned up, raced and kicked the asses of all but the very top guys without any fanfare or politics.

[mvi]

[quote=windall]I was shocked to hear they did this at the time with Tyler. The mindset of let's punish the innocent to get at the guilty is just unbelievable to me.

I think it is, you are not supposed to race non sanctioned races period. Regardless of Tyler (a few years ago) or Floyd now.

[PeT]

Originally Posted by playpunk

He just looked and sounded guilty. I'm a bill collector, and a future attorney (I hope) so I generally know if people are lying, and I trust my gut on this case.

And you probably wonder why everyone hates lawyers...

Anyway, since there seems to be some interest in this case, checkout the recent interview with Floyd over on VeloNews.com.

http://velonews.com/race/int/articles/13939.0.html

If you fight your way through to the 2nd page, Floyd does a reasonable job of explaining why he (and many others -- not wannabe lawyers of course, rather those who distrust their gut and depend on facts when the case is by definition dependent upon facts and accurate scientific measurements) figure he's getting shafted. Once again, he may have doped -- I don't know -- but it's clear the system is screwed up and better a guilty man go unpunished than unjustly punish an innocent man...

[yosh]

I read that article this morning, and i have to admit it raised a few questions. I've never "believed" Tyler, and i thought the "fairness fund" was a crock, but if what Floyd says is true about the machine being off on the known negative sample, it sure sounds like he's got a good case.

I would certainly hate to have my livelihood taken away by a questionable test result.

Originally Posted by PeT

it's clear the system is screwed up and better a guilty man go unpunished than unjustly punish an innocent man...

[playpunk]

Originally Posted by PeT

And you probably wonder why everyone hates lawyers...

Anyway, since there seems to be some interest in this case, checkout the recent interview with Floyd over on VeloNews.com.

http://velonews.com/race/int/articles/13939.0.html

If you fight your way through to the 2nd page, Floyd does a reasonable job of explaining why he (and many others -- not wannabe lawyers of course, rather those who distrust their gut and depend on facts when the case is by definition dependent upon facts and accurate scientific measurements) figure he's getting shafted. Once again, he may have doped -- I don't know -- but it's clear the system is screwed up and better a guilty man go unpunished than unjustly punish an innocent man...

Does Landis have a plausible argument? Sure. Would I like it if he wins his arbitration? Sure. I don't care too much either way. I think you are mis-interpreting what I'm saying.

All I meant to get across was that I THINK, on the basis of my visceral, gut level reaction to seeing Landis take questions after his "non-negative" test was leaked to the media, and to ME he looked guilty.

If we want to talk about the lab science, we should all wait until the CAS documents are revealed. Right now we have what Landis and his lawyer say about the data. Any lawyer worth his fees will argue that any piece of evidence is inadmissible, insignificant, etc. All we have to read are the briefs prepared by Landis' lawyer, and could you think of a more biased source of information? Even scientists (which I assume you are) should wait until they see all the evidence before making a decision about what it means, which we, as spectators and peons, won't see until after the CAS case is decided.

My original point is that I think/feel that Landis is guilty, and while I don't necessarily think that the scientific evidence is flawless, or even that good, I'm not ready to get up in arms saying that there has been a miscarriage of justice, or anything like that. He still is banned, though, and shouldn't be racing his bike.

[PeT]

Originally Posted by playpunk

All we have to read are the briefs prepared by Landis' lawyer, and could you think of a more biased source of information? Even scientists (which I assume you are) should wait until they see all the evidence before making a decision about what it means, which we, as spectators and peons, won't see until after the CAS case is decided.

Actually, that's not correct. We have the USADA presented case as well -- remember that fandango this past summer? It's all out there in the public record. Because I am a cyclist and a scientist and it was an unprecedented opportunity to witness the mechanics of a drug case, I paid attention and saw/heard the evidence before making a determination. While there are plenty of people who are pro-Landis or anti-Landis who have never examined the data and are swayed by gut feelings or an allegiance for one cause or another, I've yet to hear from anyone who has actually examined the data that thought any valid scientific determination could be made at all...

All I want to get across is that this case has no need for gut level reactions or visceral feelings about guilt or innocence -- the case is supposed to hinge on clearly defined scientific criteria, criteria that weren't met...

[holycow]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivet
By the way, I've ridden with Floyd and he has mad skills, he'd punk you out in a second.

Originally Posted by tomimcmillar

Can I touch you?

Probably not...

[Mike T.]

Originally Posted by PeT

I know that Landis was the victim of sloppy science -- heck, even the two guys on the USADA panel who voted against Landis said so. They just thought there was enough "untainted" evidence to uphold the finding. I would disagree, but then I'm just a lab scientist and they're lawyers...

I don't know if Floyd doped or not, I just know that in my professional judgement the science and methodology sucked and if you had your health and medical treatment dependent upon that laboratory your heirs would be living off the malpractice settlement they obtained upon your death. If it matters, I also believe (based upon the scientific evidence I've seen) that Tyler Hamilton doped (despite how much he loved his dog "Tugboat").
.

You'll like this interesting interview at Velo News. Floyd makes a LOT of good points -

http://www.velonews.com/race/int/articles/13939.0.html

[tomimcmillar]

Originally Posted by holycow

Quote:
Originally Posted by Rivet
By the way, I've ridden with Floyd and he has mad skills, he'd punk you out in a second.



Probably not...

why not?

[playpunk]

Originally Posted by PeT

Actually, that's not correct. We have the USADA presented case as well -- remember that fandango this past summer? It's all out there in the public record. Because I am a cyclist and a scientist and it was an unprecedented opportunity to witness the mechanics of a drug case, I paid attention and saw/heard the evidence before making a determination.

where are the USADA docs available?

[iamandy]

I just posted a letter from the NUE Board of Directors on the website:

http://usmtb100.com/

[Terry G]

Amen!

[Pete Gurney]

I didn't really give a rat's a** one way or another until I read the recent interview with Floyd on velonews.com. Now I think the guy's a real a**hole. He actually said that what Team Slipstream/Chipolte and High Road Sports (formerly T Mobile) are attempting to do (running dope free teams with exhaustive internal testing) was wrong. He thinks everyone should just shut up and leave the problems to the authorities. Yeah right, that seems to be working out great so far. Sorry for the rant, but come on.

[Mike T.]

Originally Posted by Pete Gurney

I didn't really give a rat's a** one way or another until I read the recent interview with Floyd on velonews.com. Now I think the guy's a real a**hole. He actually said that what Team Slipstream/Chipolte and High Road Sports (formerly T Mobile) are attempting to do (running dope free teams with exhaustive internal testing) was wrong. He thinks everyone should just shut up and leave the problems to the authorities. Yeah right, that seems to be working out great so far. Sorry for the rant, but come on.

If you think that's what Floyd said then you need to go back and re-read it. What he objects to is those teams saying that they are racing clean and don't care if they don't win, which hints at anyone that DOES win as being a potential doper.

[playpunk]

Originally Posted by Mike T.

If you think that's what Floyd said then you need to go back and re-read it. What he objects to is those teams saying that they are racing clean and don't care if they don't win, which hints at anyone that DOES win as being a potential doper.

HAS anyone won a grand tour in the past ten or fifteen years without being accused of doping?

[Pete Gurney]

If all the ProTour teams started to implement the same type of programs that Slipstream and "High Horse or whatever they're called now" have, perhaps we wouldn't be having this discussion. My only point was that I don't believe their stance is taking cycling backwards. Instead, I feel that they may indeed be on the right track, and I took offense to Floyd belittling that.

[mtbmitch2]

Floyds book-Positively False is hard to stop reading every night. I think he was framed.
the stuff they supposedly found in his system had no effect on his greatest of all time
come back ride. Landis will encourage alot of endurance riders and racers.
Mitch

[Mike T.]

Originally Posted by Pete Gurney

If all the ProTour teams started to implement the same type of programs that Slipstream and "High Horse or whatever they're called now" have, perhaps we wouldn't be having this discussion. My only point was that I don't believe their stance is taking cycling backwards. Instead, I feel that they may indeed be on the right track, and I took offense to Floyd belittling that.

What Floyd DID say was this -

".........Jonathan Vaughters' team......they are saying we don't care about winning, we just want to be clean and so it's okay with us to get whatever place we get because we're not doping. You know what? That's one of the most offensive things you could ever say. That immediately accuses everyone who finishes ahead you of doping. That's hypocrisy. That's asinine. They have to stop saying that. It's all fine and good that they are against doping, but for them to say we're not interested in winning, we're just interested in being clean is an accusation of anyone that is better than them."

[Circlip]

Your quote below might indeed be what Floyd said in the interview, but what Vaughters DIDN'T say was "... accuses everyone who finishes ahead you of doping....we're just interested in being clean is an accusation of anyone that is better than them." That's Floyd's own personal paraphrasing on what Vaughters said, which is far from making it true. Just another example of spin doctoring from Floyd. I thought he would have learned from the 2006 public relations and media fiasco that being a spin doctor is not one of his core competencies?

Originally Posted by Mike T.

What Floyd DID say was this -

".........Jonathan Vaughters' team......they are saying we don't care about winning, we just want to be clean and so it's okay with us to get whatever place we get because we're not doping. You know what? That's one of the most offensive things you could ever say. That immediately accuses everyone who finishes ahead you of doping. That's hypocrisy. That's asinine. They have to stop saying that. It's all fine and good that they are against doping, but for them to say we're not interested in winning, we're just interested in being clean is an accusation of anyone that is better than them."

[Mike T.]

Originally Posted by Circlip

That's Floyd's own personal paraphrasing on what Vaughters said, which is far from making it true.

Doesn't everyone paraphrase and interpret Matt, err I mean 'Circlip'. I whisper something in your ear and by the time it gets back around the circle it's a different story altogether. That's why the ol' saying exists - "There's three sides to every story - his, hers and the right one."

There's only one person who really knows whether Floyd doped or not (or Tyler, or Lance etc) and the rest of us will always just have an opinion.

[ultrarob]

Trust but Verify has links to a bunch of different sets of documents. There's more than I imagine I'll ever take the time to go through. Here are the direct links to the USADA ruling and the dissent.

[kretzel]

Landis to NUE, Cipo to Rock Racing - gotta admit, it's been an entertaining season already

Can't wait til the racing begins...

[Circlip]

Originally Posted by Mike T.

That's why the ol' saying exists - "There's three sides to every story - his, hers and the right one."

I dunno about that. My wife seems convinced that her side and the right side of the story are always one and the same.

While we're on the subject, is it true that Michael Ball is actually Cippo's half-brother. I heard that they first met a few years ago while on vacation in the same resort, and that while on vacation both were saved from a pack of wild dogs which was chased away by Tugboat who was in fact Tyler's mutated twin? Or that Cippo told ball that he wouldn't sign on as the Euro team manager unless he could hire Britney Spears to lead a new women's pro team for Rock Racing? So long as they all use hydrolic breaks it's all good to me.

[dbrower]

Originally Posted by playpunk

where are the USADA docs available?

More than you can possibly want to know is available at http://trustbut.blogspot.com

You can find pointers to all the primary documents, including the USADA briefs and presentations, and video of the entire hearing.

-dB

[Almost_Dunn]

Hey I say let him ride.
Isn't this the USA ?? Calling the 'trial' he got a Kangaroo court would be giving them way too much credit. Pseudo science at best, glad I ain't being judged by science that isn't truly proven.
Otherwise it's guilty until PROVEN innocent ??

[jjss]

Landis doped or not on TDF ?

We all have seen his incredible performance on stage 17, even the blood doped Sinkewitz could not follow him despite staying just beheind his wheel.
And what about the Alpe d'Huez climb where Landis with Kloeden recorder a time of 38'40, close of the Jan Ullrich's 38'35 made on the 2004 TT. Very nice time after a full mountain stage.
Lemond was just able to set a record of 48'...10minutes more than today! Lemond could be only ranked 50th on a 2006 TDF!
Sure Floyd was "clean" and if he was robbed, it's only by the other riders who doped too!

[Harlan]

I'm chiming in a little late here, but I'm down with Floyd coming to our centuries. He broke my heart when his stage 17 was discredited. Either way beating him would be a victory, cause you're either beating a doper or a Tour de France winner. I also happen to think he's pretty funny, and would fit in with the NUE style.
Plus he's a serious athlete and having that kind of competition around really elevates the level of riding.