Stan is the 650B rim man!

[Kirk Pacenti]

I just got off the phone with our good friend Stan at No-Tubes.com. He just received some samples of his ZTR-355 rim in the 650B size (ISO 584mm). They tested the fit and seal-ability of this rim with Pacenti Neo-Moto tire.

The good news is that the tire and rim combination work great together. According to Stan the tire is true to size and sealed much better than he anticipated. They have decided to go forward with production of the 650B ZTR-355 rim and expect to have rims in stock by mid April.

I will be receiving a wheel for testing here, and I will post pics and ride reports ASAP.

[ferday]

cool, this is moving along pretty quickly...stan has a lot of momentum in the MTB world right now which will only help your cause.

ps. sweet article (and picture) in the new MBA.

[JMac47]

Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti

They have decided to go forward with production of the ZTR-355 rim and expect to have rims in stock by mid April.

I will be receiving a wheel for testing here, and I will post pics and ride reports ASAP.

Dang! Guess we'll have to wait for your report then.....are you done with it yet??

[Kirk Pacenti]

I forgot to mention the really important stuff!

The estimated rim weight will be a scant 380g!

[yogiprophet]

NO You're the MAN.....NOooo You're the MAN...........

Sign me up Mr. Pacenti !!!!

My Lefty Omega hub, spokes and 10mm Lefty SL spacer is on order and will be waiting. They will get so lonely till April.

I agree that the Stan's rim/Neo Moto combo will be awesome together, and I am ready and waiting.

HOLD ON....Wait just a cotton pickin' minute!!!, I have a GREAT idea! Why don't you send ME a rim and tire so I can test it too..... I AM a certified tester

[BrendanC]

That is good news. Stan makes a fine rim!

[steelbike]

And i was just wondering what to build next.
i didn't expect this much fun. Thanks Kirk and Stan!

[MMcG]

Exciting News!

[LIV2RYD]

I have spoken to Stans several times about the 650B format and told them that if they put them into production, I will be the first to order one. April can't come soon enough.....

[SUB160]

Wow!!! Great news! Those will definitely be my XC race rims this year!

-SUB160

[JMac47]

Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti

I forgot to mention the really important stuff!

The estimated rim weight will be a scant 380g!

....for my skinny 130lb. a$$!! (wonder how many grams that is??) Only problem may be turning the bigger wheels with my short little scrawny legs.....

[pvd]

Thank God!

Now I just need some light UST rims.

[troll killer]

Originally Posted by pvd

Thank God!

Now I just need some light UST rims.

Aren't the terms "light" and "UST" mutually exclusive?

[GreenLightGo]

Good news. I hope Archs and Flows follow.

[rmb]

Originally Posted by LIV2RYD

I have spoken to Stans several times about the 650B format and told them that if they put them into production, I will be the first to order one. April can't come soon enough.....

I'm second.

[RockStarRacing]

Originally Posted by rmb

I'm second.

bet your not...................

[rmb]

Originally Posted by RockStarRacing

bet your not...................

Hey, no cutting.

[amillmtb]

These may be on my Salsa Ala Carte build...if the 650 fits in production frame

[yogiprophet]

Originally Posted by rmb

Hey, no cutting.

You guys are gonna have to work this out.... and in the mean time, I'll just slip in front of you and get my rim

[Cracked Headtube]

Kirk, thats pretty exciting. No PM?? I work with NoTubes regularly and didn't even know...

[TNC]

Originally Posted by JMac47

....for my skinny 130lb. a$$!! (wonder how many grams that is??) Only problem may be turning the bigger wheels with my short little scrawny legs.....

So I take it this rim will be more XC and not aggessive AM category? We're all tubeless at our shop, but I don't think any of us have ever actually seen a Stan's rim come through here. He makes good stuff, as we're all using his sealant and his strips on non-UST rims. I guess I'd better stay with the Velocity for the time being...unless someone knows something specific about how strong this rim will probably be. It sounds like the light XC rim that will be the match for lighter 650B XC tires when they come out. I'm a little amazed at how quickly interest and manufacturing is occuring with this format.

[gregoryb02]

Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti

I just got off the phone with our good friend Stan at No-Tubes.com. He just received some samples of his ZTR-355 rim in the 650B size (ISO 584mm). They tested the fit and seal-ability of this rim with Pacenti Neo-Moto tire.

The good news is that the tire and rim combination work great together. According to Stan the tire is true to size and sealed much better than he anticipated. They have decided to go forward with production of the 650B ZTR-355 rim and expect to have rims in stock by mid April.

I will be receiving a wheel for testing here, and I will post pics and ride reports ASAP.

Kirk -

Exciting stuff ! How do you sleep at night with the 650B craze taking off so fast? I spoke with Dave at "Daves Speed Dream" (attention cutom wheel want-to-be's: check out Daves wheel ratings on the MTB product review - STELLAR ratings!) and he said he would build me a 650b wheel using Stans new ZTR-355 rim when it becomes available. Do you know the rim width? With all the good reviews a 28mm width has been getting lately, I am contemplating stepping up from a 25mm (I ride all mountain) Any thought?

Also, since a 650B Panaracer "Neo-Moto" is a kissing cousin of the Panaracer "Rampage" (and, contrary to other post on this forum) I personally don't think a Neo-moto is designed for XC. The aggressive tread design clearly lends itself more to an "all mountain" tire which on Panaracers own website coincidentaly identifies the similiar Rampage as "All Mountain". That being said, I ran a Rampage in 2007 as a front tire and LOVED it! For those who don't know, give it a go! I also think the ramped tread lends itself more properly as a front tire, but I am not the tire expert. I know that Shiggy (the tire guru himself) loves the Rampage front and rear which is why I bought this tire in the first place.

I too am going to build up a Mojo SL with a 650B on a Talas Fork (1/4" to spare!) and run a 26" in the rear. I really like the initial feedback I am hearing about a 650B front /26" rear (fellow MTB'ers visit: http://bikebizbabe.blogspot.com/2007...xperiment.html and Visit: http://thebottombracket.blogspot.com...50b-truth.html ).

Question: If I cannot find a 28mm rim for the front 650B Neo-moto, would it be o.k. to run a 28mm on the rear 26" tire and a standard 25mm rim on the front 650B?

You guy's on this forum can get your ZTR355 wheels first (well... right after me) but it won't matter if the entire 650B tire stock is depleted (i.e. remember after MBA rated tires in 2005 and the Nevegals were # 1?? Well all the distributors were out of stock and on back order!). I have already ordered my Neo Moto from bikeman.com ($39.95 + $10 shipping) and would suggest you do too. Their is only one 650B tire manufacture (Panaracer) and at least two or more wheel manufactures; hmmm... you do the math. (yes- I know more tires will be coming to market but I am talking about now baby!).

Lastly, for the best wheel builder in the galaxy, contact Dave at www.SpeedDream.com . I am going to build my second set of wheels with him and his experience, reputation, and customer service is second to none. his website won't knock your socks off but his wheels will. He's old school so you won't get him on e-mail but he personally picks up the phone everytime you call him. He works with Stans wheels, among several others. Cheers!

[Fisty]

I just saw his new 26 version of the ztr race on american hubs on the trail the other day. He said the wheelset weighs 12?? grams

[gregoryb02]

Update to my last post: Sorry guys - I just bought my 650B Neo Moto at Bikeman on Friday for $39.95 + shipping and they indicated "while supplies last"; I just checked the site today (Monday 1/14/2007) and the price went up to $49.95 + shipping. I also called NoTubes.com and they said not to worry - that they would have plenty of 650B ZTR355 wheels for everyone. They also said that they can put anyone that wants a 650B wheel on an email notification list when they are ready to ship. I am also changing my mind - after reading reviews on wheels, I am going to opt for a Velocity Blunt w/ 28mm width instead of the ZTR 355 width of 24.4 (it's a personal choice, but how can you go wrong w/ a Blunt since Pacenti helped with this wheel?). Cheers.

[amillmtb]

Originally Posted by Fisty

I just saw his new 26 version of the ztr race on american hubs on the trail the other day. He said the wheelset weighs 12?? grams

They are 1210g.

http://www.notubes.com/product_info.php/products_id/406

[gregoryb02]

Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti

I just got off the phone with our good friend Stan at No-Tubes.com. He just received some samples of his ZTR-355 rim in the 650B size (ISO 584mm). They tested the fit and seal-ability of this rim with Pacenti Neo-Moto tire.

The good news is that the tire and rim combination work great together. According to Stan the tire is true to size and sealed much better than he anticipated. They have decided to go forward with production of the 650B ZTR-355 rim and expect to have rims in stock by mid April.

I will be receiving a wheel for testing here, and I will post pics and ride reports ASAP.

Kirk -

I would suggest you call your contacts at Velocity and encourage them to make a 28mm wide 26" wheel to match the 650B Blunt you helped them with. I called Velocity today and spoke with Matt, and he is checking into having a custom rim rolled for me as described above (possible extra set up cost and 10 weeks out).

As much as I would love to mount the Neo Moto on the rear of an Ibis Mojo - it ain't happening (I am guessing this is a real common problem for guys wanting to step up to a 650B with a frame they already own - I'll call it a "pre-650B frame"). With demand gaining momentum for 650B wheels/tires at the same time that 28mm wide rims are gaining popularity - don't you think a 26" Velocity Blunt at 28mm wide would be a big seller for guys like me that are putting a 650B Blunt on the front, but cannot squeeze one on the rear?

P.s. If I cannot get a Velocity Blunt in a 26" rim, then I will purchase a Bontrager Rythem or Duster - the only 28mm wide 26" XC/AM wheel on the market that I am aware of.

Cheers!

[derby]

Originally Posted by gregoryb02

. If I cannot get a Velocity Blunt in a 26" rim, then I will purchase a Bontrager Rythem or Duster - the only 28mm wide 26" XC/AM wheel on the market that I am aware of.

The DT Swiss 5.1d is 28mm wide and rather light for it's size at 500grms. It's a very high qualty rim, easy to true, very strong with eylets. I think Mavic has a 28mm rim at about 55 grams too.

The Blunt B rim is more XC than AM other than width. It’s very light and thin-walled, no eyelets. I'd say borderline sketchy too lightweight for rear wheel use for AM jumps and higher speed rocky hits.

I think the future will evolve into moto style B/26 and 29/B, using a larger lighter front wheel with smaller front tire matched with a smaller more stout rear wheel's tire, for AM trail and DH bikes. One frame geometry could fit both B/26 and 29/B (and also fit 26/26 or B/B wheels with a steeper, quicker handling geometry).

[yogiprophet]

Kirk, how goes the Stan's rim/Neo Moto combo?

I just built a ZTR 355 wheel for my race bike, and thrashed it a bit. It seems to be a nice light rim.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Originally Posted by yogiprophet

Kirk, how goes the Stan's rim/Neo Moto combo?

I just built a ZTR 355 wheel for my race bike, and thrashed it a bit. It seems to be a nice light rim.

I hope to get out on it this weekend...

[JMac47]

Originally Posted by TNC

So I take it this rim will be more XC and not aggessive AM category? We're all tubeless at our shop, but I don't think any of us have ever actually seen a Stan's rim come through here. He makes good stuff, as we're all using his sealant and his strips on non-UST rims. I guess I'd better stay with the Velocity for the time being...unless someone knows something specific about how strong this rim will probably be. It sounds like the light XC rim that will be the match for lighter 650B XC tires when they come out. I'm a little amazed at how quickly interest and manufacturing is occuring with this format.

....aggreSSive xc use. To whimpy lately after 2 shoulder surgeries the last couple years to push it too hard on the rough stuff (not that you can't still break stuff JRA ). Should work out good. I've posted before that I have a 26" frame setup w/700 CX disc wheels and it rides great, just limited use though with the skinny 32's. Being only 5'7, I think a 650b/2.1 tire setup will be perfect for me. Not sure if I can wait 'til both the new rim and tire come out though....

[Kirk Pacenti]

Originally Posted by yogiprophet

Kirk, how goes the Stan's rim/Neo Moto combo?

I just built a ZTR 355 wheel for my race bike, and thrashed it a bit. It seems to be a nice light rim.

Now that all my preparations for the upcoming NAHBS show are done, I will have time to get out on this wheel. I will taking it out for my first ever ride on a tubeless wheel in an hour or so.

I should say that I have been a huge skeptic up to this point. Mostly I was concerned about what I imagined would be a huge hassle to run tubeless. I must say, I could not have been more wrong. The tire mounted to the rim perfectly. The rim and tire combo are just a tad more snug than a typical rim might be (designed for tubes). Stan says that this is critical for a good seal, and I agree. Even without sealant on my test fit, the tire inflated almost instantly and sealed pretty well, though it did lose all but 6psi overnight.

With sealant in the tire it's good to go. I filled it with about 30psi and again it infated nearly instantly. A couple pings and a few pangs from the bead seating and the wheel was ready to ride. Since this is my first go with a tubeless set up I will start at my usual 29psi - 30psi and work my way down; I hope to be able to ride with 20psi in the rear. And, I am no weight weenie, but I calculate a 130g weight savings over the same wheel with a tube installed.... not bad at all!


Disclaimer: Stan at No Tubes had previously test fit and sealed this particular tire, so it was no surprise that there were no sealant leaks when I inflated it. I will be testing it with a new tire soon to gauge how porous the tire actually is.

[MMcG]

Looking forward to the post-ride report. Jealous as hell since the weather sucks here and I'm home sick to boot.

[yogiprophet]

Sexy Wheel!

Did you use a compressor or a floor pump?

Thanks for the initial report.

[MichauxYeti]

What's up with the extra hole right above the 650?

[Cracked Headtube]

extra hole? what about the large gap before the last photo'd spoke on the right.
I'm guessing this was a rough prototype. No Tubes mentioned they hand drilled these. Maybe this one slipped....

[derby]

How wide is that rim? Which rim strip (I see it has a presta valve)?

I used a Stan's Freeride or DH rim-strip (I'm not sure) with a Schrader valve on the Blunt B rim. And it took compressed air over 30psi to seat the bead (mine failed to expand out to the bead with 30psi in my compressed air tank, so filled the tak up to 60psi and that was easy.)

[yogiprophet]

I'm sure he knew what he was doing...I think...
He put the valve in the spoke hole and that extra hole is for the valve... ...Just kidding

Besides this is not rocket science. It's only a tubeless test.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Originally Posted by derby

How wide is that rim? Which rim strip (I see it has a presta valve)?

I used a Stan's Freeride or DH rim-strip (I'm not sure) with a Schrader valve on the Blunt B rim. And it took compressed air over 30psi to seat the bead (mine failed to expand out to the bead with 30psi in my compressed air tank, so filled the tak up to 60psi and that was easy.)

The rim is a standard ZTR355 rolled up to the 650B size. It's 24.4mm wide and good for general XC riding / racing at just 380g. The rim "strip" is the standard yellow rim tape with the Olympic valve stem installed.

[Kirk Pacenti]

Originally Posted by MichauxYeti

What's up with the extra hole right above the 650?

For some reason the rim came pre-drilled from the factory with just 24 holes. Stan drilled it out for 32 holes and because of the spacing he needed to adjust some hole locations... we ended up with a few "extra" holes on the test rim.

[Warp]

Originally Posted by derby

The DT Swiss 5.1d is 28mm wide and rather light for it's size at 500grms. It's a very high qualty rim, easy to true, very strong with eylets. I think Mavic has a 28mm rim at about 55 grams too.

Alex FD28 rims... 28mm outer width, 21mm inner width. 490grs claimed with eyelets. Shiggy has a pair too.

Not as high quality as the 5.1 but on par with the E540 and cheaper or about as expensive as the E540. Syncros has another one... DP28 and just about the same as the Alex. They look suspiciously similar (I'm not saying they're the same, they just look very alike).

I have them and so far so good.


By warp2003 at 2007-03-13

Mavic has nothing comparable. They go up to 19mm inner and then you have something in 21 but weighs considerably more (XM321).

[Mike B.]

As Kirk mentioned the sample rims were drilled 24 hole. To build one up 32 hole for Kirk to play with Stan drilled the extra holes necessary while trying to re-use as many of the original holes as possible.

Not the first time probably won't be the last for a little handy work.

[JMac47]

Originally Posted by Kirk Pacenti

The rim is a standard ZTR355 rolled up to the 650B size. It's 24.4mm wide and good for general XC riding / racing at just 380g. The rim "strip" is the standard yellow rim tape with the Olympic valve stem installed.

When did you say they're going public?? Test rode a 26" Soulcraft w/Velocity/NeoMoto set up, really jonezen for the lighter rim though.

Carver SS Killer B w/Stans/NeoMoto should=!

[Arsbars]

Having spoke to Stans it sounded like the extra holes were for room to play with. I'm excited to see these as a final product.

[Purs]

edit... found info via search.

[gregoryb02]

I am trying to decide on which rim to use for "Industry 9" hubs on the rear wheel of a 650B front/ 26" rear set up on my Mojo SL ... I definitely want 28mm +/- width and it has to be a 32 hole to match the I9 hubs. I will be putting a Velocity Blunt on the front for the 650B/ Pacenti tire (Industry 9 has agreed to build a 650B Blunt rim/ I9 hub combination for me).

I need to decide between the Bontrager Duster (according to Shiggy - this wheel is the same as the Bontrager Rythem but a 32 hole instead of a 28) OR a DT Swiss 5.1.

Both are good wheels, but which is better? I do not do drops (on purpose) or jumps, and weight is a consideration. I like climbing and technical up/downhill. Both wheels are plenty strong for me (I weigh 185 lbs.). I ride a mix of XC / All mountain.

Any recommendations? Thanks!

[Flyer]

For a second, I had to check the forum again to make sure I wasn't in the Weight Weenie forum.

Good to see these developments. It means other rim manufacturers will also be coming out with 650B rims. Arch and Flow are must haves in this size.

[yogiprophet]

Originally Posted by Flyer

For a second, I had to check the forum again to make sure I wasn't in the Weight Weenie forum.

Good to see these developments. It means other rim manufacturers will also be coming out with 650B rims. Arch and Flow are must haves in this size.

Arch is a stiffer rim, but it may be better to use thicker spokes and use the 355. this combo could be just as stiff but with less moment of inertia(similar mass but with the mass closer to the center of rotation).

[telenick]

I'm psyched about this new Stans rim. I'm very interested in updating my 26er race bike to a 29er front with a 100mm fork and 27.5er rear HT.

Thanks Stan!

[theodash]

When can we expect The Crow in 650b?

[gregoryb02]

FYI : I spoke with Brandi at Industry 9 wheels, and they will build a custom I9 wheel/hub combination on any 650B rim (or 26") of your choice. Allow 6-8 weeks and you can get all the cool anodized colors you can think of. It's not cheap, $875 +/-, but I don't think you can find a stiffer, lighter setup than the I9 wheels. Visit CompetitiveCyclist.com for reviews and video on the I9's. I'm sold, and have already ordered my pair.

[indyfab25]

bikeman.com has the rims in stock now

[amillmtb]

http://www.notubes.com/product_info.php/products_id/420

[elephant]

LBS ordered one for me and it came in last week - has 370 written on it. I also order a WTB Laserdisc Lite hub and Revo spokes.

Now I just need that new XC tire.