Yet *ANOTHER* Dave Weagle design (NOT Split Pivot)...

[Speedub.Nate]

Hot from the pages of the UK's Bike Magic website:

http://www.bikemagic.com/news/articl...N/5829/v/1/sp/

"The Direct 4 rear end is from Dave Weagle, best known for the DW-Link short-link design used by Iron Horse and Ibis. The Direct 4 doesn't aim to be as cunning as the DW-Link - in essence it's a low-pivot swingarm with a seatstay pivot. But it's got a bit of a twist - rather than the shock being driven by a rocker, it's connected directly (hence the name) to the top end of the seatstays."

Edit Oct. 20th:

Originally Posted by Dave Weagle

I had absolutely nothing to do with designing that bike. Its an off the shelf K2 Apache design with different stickers. It is s low pivot Faux bar bike, and I think that most people who know my work would quickly realize that this would be well out of the ordinary for me, and something that I would most likely not build or put my name on.

Sorry 'bout that, Dave. We kind of got that figured out, but I should have edited this first post to reflect that. -Nate

[crisillo]

beat me to it, Nate! ... I was just reading the review

[borregokid]

Reading the article the bike is only being made for Britain and is not going to be exported to the US. That leads me to believe that the design is close to something thats already been patented. Either that or Dave Weagle shopped the design and everyone passed on it in the US.

[TJT]

I don't see anything fundamentally new there. How is it different from this, for example?

http://www.turnerbikes.com/2007/highline.html

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by TJT

I don't see anything fundamentally new there.

Well, I suspect, in line with Dave's prior comments, the devil is in the details, and not the "look" of the layout. Fer instance, the frame layout looks just like a Fisher HiFi, though the linkage design is notably different.

Honestly, I have no idea if anything is "new and improved" here.

Could this be a case of the Pinnacle brand licensing Dave's name for more visibility?
Could this be Dave shopping a new design?
Could there be some tweaks and improvements to an otherwise familiar suspension layout, by a designer who knows his shit? (I suspect yes.)

Whatever the answer, I'm surprised the Split Pivot didn't make its debut here.

[Student Driver]

Well, on the surface it looks like a cheaper design both in manufacturing and licensing. And I believe it more to be "We want our own full suspension design, but the ability to use Dave's name if needed" than anything else. It looks like they wanted their "own" suspension design, and that's what they got. Checking out their site for this bike I don't see DW's name or any reference, including the "In House Design" page. Maybe this is a one-off for a company that wants to keep costs down but perceived value up?

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by Student Driver

Maybe this is a one-off for a company that wants to keep costs down but perceived value up?

...or maybe they went to World Wide Cycles for this this frame, Dave had a hand in what is otherwise a relatively run-of-the-mill design, and that's how his name got dropped in the Bike Magic article?

Dunno... seems to me that his name, with the cache that it carries, should come at a price and be associated with something novel, new, improved, better, etc.

[scottzg]

Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate

...or maybe they went to World Wide Cycles for this this frame, Dave had a hand in what is otherwise a relatively run-of-the-mill design, and that's how his name got dropped in the Bike Magic article?

yeah, was gonna say it looks an awful lot like the k2 apache

[Student Driver]

Well, it is strange either way. The site they reference seems to take quite a bit of pride in their in-house design, although this doesn't seem to fall into that. If I were to guess, I would think that dw*link would cost too much to manufacture and license, and Split Pivot might have fallen into the same realm. They didn't want to do a Horst link, or they couldn't convince DW to have anything to do with a Horst link and he wouldn't "tweak" it for them. On top of all that, there appear to be no markings of any kind indicating DW was even in the same room when it was drafted let alone designing any part of it.

[Student Driver]

Originally Posted by scottzg

yeah, was gonna say it looks an awful lot like the k2 apache

And by "awful lot" he means "virtually identical."

So the theory is that DW was contracted to design something for a much larger manufacturer and Pinnacle just has a lot of marketing BS on their site. Sweet.

Ding, ding! The status quo has just pulled into the station...

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by Student Driver

And by "awful lot" he means "virtually identical."

Hey, wait, you may not have noticed, but the color of the frames are clearly different!

[Student Driver]

Well, I was actually going to comment on the "Red" being written at the bottom to help out people like me who have greyscale LCD monitors.

[scottzg]

ok, ok, so I'm late to the party... at least i used my own directions.

I Think i deserve a cookie.

[NathanP]

Haha NICE. It's a K2 with pinnacle written on the downtube. I've never heard of Pinnacle? K2>Pinnacle at this point lol

[tscheezy]

That's nothing. DW is teaming up with Bondhus to create a new set of tools for left-handed folks. Check it out-

Standard, right-handed allen wrench:


New, revolutionary left-handed wrench:


Patent pending, of course.

[Student Driver]

So, this is the new dw*wrench I have been reading about, eh? Sweet. It's obviously more efficient with its new "aint-squat", err, I mean "anti-squat" wrenching design. However, how bad is the feedback through it? Or, more importantly, will the secretary from Titus leave and form her own tool company to sell it?

[scottzg]

does anyone else find the name 'tent peak' amusing?

kinda like how K2 has a bike called the 'big easy deuce'

[Stevo the Devo]

Originally Posted by tscheezy

That's nothing. DW is teaming up with Bondhus to create a new set of tools for left-handed folks. Check it out-

Standard, right-handed allen wrench:


New, revolutionary left-handed wrench:


Patent pending, of course.

Very funny, I cracked up laughing . He forgot to put his name on the tools as well as the bike, though...

[Chupacabras]

Ironhorse bought K2, no? Could they just be licensing out K2's designs now?

[Quattro]

Originally Posted by tscheezy

That's nothing. DW is teaming up with Bondhus to create a new set of tools for left-handed folks. Check it out-

Standard, right-handed allen wrench:


New, revolutionary left-handed wrench:


Patent pending, of course.

Perhaps this is like Le TNT ?

A non Horstlink bike will get notably less effective with the rear brake on. No doubt. There is a reason that I pay Specialized, proper positioning of the Horst link is the best way to build a bicycle rear suspenion."

David Turner 7/16/2004

[FireDog46]

this generations answer to Mr. Ellsworth?

michael

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by FireDog46

this generations answer to Mr. Ellsworth?

michael

Honestly, guys...

Dave is prolific. And he know his shiznit, no doubt.

It seems, in this case, the website is taking liberties dropping his name in this article.

I suspect Dave would have chimed in by now if there was more to this story.

He supposedly takes an active role in the design of complete frames -- not just the suspension layout -- so it's not unimaginable that he could have a hand in some less-than-groundbreaking models. Isn't it?

[Flyer]

This isn't a new or interesting design at al. Maybe they just wanted his name associated with it.

[GreenLightGo]

World Wide Cycle (Ironhorse) owns the rights to K2 now. I kinda thought it looked more like the Blue Apache than the Red Apache though.



BTW - the $2699 2007 Apache 6.0 is on sale for $1899 at Randall Scott.

[CSPRINGS]

Tony Ellsworth Patent Formulae:
1.Submit patent paperwork with volumes of narrative (in some unknown language) and a slew of repetative pictures with all sorts on meaningless cheeky drawings and notations which does not address logic and to an engineer reads like a shell game - or con game. He would then hope that the dopes at the patent office would be wowed over by the onslaught of all this incredulous technology, leading to:

2. Patent office dopes Forget there is already a quality patent on this design (just a few pages long and just a few relevant diagrams), leading to:

3. Award of enforceable patent (ducplicate patent), leading to:

4. We would then see someone ( whose name rymes with Burner ) with exact same bike frame, be forced to terminate use of (Horst Leitner) patented design.

The Patent office has some very humorous Patents referenced above. Read em for yourself!

CS

[CSPRINGS]

Cheezy,
Regarding that left handed tool. I am a lefty and am interested but have a few questions:

1. Is the Left version priced at least 30% higher than the righty version?

2. Am I guaranteed poor customer service?

3. Will the warranty be voided when they stop making the 80mm version and
only make the 81mm version? (These two different lengths are clearly different tools with totally different application )

4. Does the Left version have instantly centering tracking that follows miraculously the torque direction and force
applied by ones left hand whilst using the Left tool? ( Yes I know it is hard to follow but it is a patentable breakthrough
in design)

5. Will this be an ultra light Tool market towards high stress usage for which it was not designed?

6. Will the tool come with a Magnesium noodle bridge?

7. Will there be one offered in 24K Gold?

??

[_dw]

I'm not sure where this press info came from, but I had absolutely nothing to do with designing that bike. Its an off the shelf K2 Apache design with different stickers. It is s low pivot Faux bar bike, and I think that most people who know my work would quickly realize that this would be well out of the ordinary for me, and something that I would most likely not build or put my name on.

I'd really appreciate it if the first post in the thread could reflect that somehow.

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by _dw

I'd really appreciate it if the first post in the thread could reflect that somehow.

Done.

[KingPinn]

Hello

Brand manager of Pinnacle Bikes UK here. I would like to apologise to Dave for the error in the story run on bikemagic last week, which Dave did inform me about. This has now been corrected by the journalist involved.

As an enthusiast and a cycle brand manager, I am a huge fan of Dave's innovative designs, have met Dave, and am a previous owner of an IH Azure (Very nice), but can confirm Dave has not had any involvement with the current Pinnacle Bikes range here in the UK.

Here is a piece from our Direct 4 overview sheet in the downloads section of our website:

“Suspension Design From Year One
Pinnacle was faced with a tough mission when launching - How do we produce a suspension design which a) works and b) is dependable.

We knew what we wanted, so we discussed this with engineer Mark Landsaat (Who among various brands has worked with K2 and Tomac Bikes) and he was able to produce a bike based around a proven swingarm design, that had 5 years of development behind it. We then add our own tubing, geometry and shock tuning.”

Hope this clarifies, and please put me down for some of those left-handed wrenches, we don't have those over here yet

Scott Hargrave
Brand Manager
Pinnacle Bikes UK

[_dw]

Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate

Done.

Thanks Nate