2007 Interbike Dirt Demo

[tscheezy]

Felt Redemption:
A very short, upright feel to the cockpit setup. Sort of a freeride-lite bike in cockpit character. An extremely solid feeling chassis that is quite compliant early in the stroke and smooth under power and when climbing. Both seated and standing pedaling was very capable over both smooth trails and through rock gardens when ascending where the suspension exhibited a nice and soft initial stroke with a pleasant ramp-up deeper. Quite active at sag and just below. The descending behavior was not as plush as we would have thought based on how compliant things felt on the climbs however. The suspension felt like it offered around 4" of decent travel, but the travel did not feel as deep as advertised. A very nicely built frame and it is always nice to see a 1.5 option imo. The Lyrik U-Turn was pleasant if not amazing. The Lyrik U-Turn on the Chumba EVO was noticeably nicer, but we didn't get a chance to run through many of the MC settings. The fork balanced well on the bike though I could imagine a Pike working well also. Tire clearance was ample and all the forged and machined bits well done.





























Foes XCT:
A very harsh riding suspension. The air Curnutt shock was not compliant at all despite the tech at the Foes booth saying there was "zero stiction" with the seals (which were leaving black streaks on the shaft by the end of the ride). The shock and linkage were very linear feeling and quite easy to bottom out despite not offering much in the way of compliance around sag. None of us really enjoyed the suspension/shock characteristics of this bike. The handling was surprisingly quick and steep for a 6" travel trailbike. It may have benefitted from a fork a bit longer and plusher than the 140mm Fox. The rear end was just very harsh and I will admit we didn't take a lot of time to fiddle with the SPV valve pressure since the tech at the Foes booth had done it for us specifically when I discussed the bike's setups and adjustments. It is a stout rig and well thought out, but I would be very concerned being limited to the proprietary dampers based on this experience.

[tscheezy]

Knolly Endophin:
We basically came away with the same impressions we had last year- an extremely solid bike in every regard. It pedals superbly, handles brilliantly, and it's easy to get comfortable in the rangy cockpit. At first glance the 165mm Zoke 55 ATA may seem like a lot of fork for this bike (which I think normally seems to lean towards the rough side of epic XC more akin to the Spot et al.), but the 55 complimented the Knolly very well along with the big and grabby Maxxis ADvantage tires. In fact, as a package I can not think of any changes I would make to the Endorphin for Bootleg Canyon riding. Noel said he had learned from last year's feedback concerning bike setup and was going to make an effort to cater the setup more to desert riding and I have to say he came through in spades. The somewhat slack seat angle could make sizing an operation in careful seatpost selection (layback verses straight) and I wonder if the Gravity Dropper style posts would play nice, but it seems less slack than the Delerium's. The cable routing is clean and everything neatly in its place and well thought out. It cut through rock gardens and landed small drops with confidence. A super bike in every regard.

The 55 fork felt great but just a little less plush than my (very broken in) 06 66SL. The 55 had a somewhat more "mechanical" feel to it which may have been seals, and it exhibited perhaps a bit more brake dive and a softer midstroke. The PAR chamber is quite different compared to my 06 and so some of this can probably be tuned out. The thru axle simply screws in until it comes snug. Nothing fancy or expanding like the Maxle. You need to depress a spring loaded safety tooth on the far side of the axle to unscrew it from the fork, but other than that it is very straight forward. It was plush like a good Zoke is, and the ATA offered very noticeable detents though it takes a fair number of turns to run through the range. The TST Micro is very similar to Rockshox' Motion Control in application. You preset the preload on the damper orifice via the Micro knob (a bit similar to RS's Floodgate) and then dial in the amount compression damping via the TST knob. You have 5 detents unlike RS's smooth turning knob. The chassis is stout and the arch huge compared to recent Zokes. THe TST is supposedly still a bladder but housed in a cart like in the Fox 36 forks. Time will tell if this is good or bad.















































Intense Socom:
I picked this bike up and as I pedaled away from the booth an assertive and persistent creak was immediately apparent. By the time I had gotten to the shuttle truck other people waiting with us wandered over and puzzled over the rear end with us looking for the source. We grabbed the rear tire and torqued it back and forth and were amazed at the amount of movement. We went methodically over ever bolt and none were loose or sheared (well, we didn't take the cranks off to check the drive side lower swing link bolts). The rear wheel had sufficient spoke tension, the Saint hub acted fine, the rear dropouts were snug, the thru axle was tight and in tact (something I later confirmed when I flatted and had to remove the rear wheel). We couldn't find any cracks or obvious damage either. I put my fingers over the point where the swing links interface with the frame members as we flexed to see if the bearings had play, but this did not seem to be the case either. The bearing bores may have been a touch big allowing the cartridges to rotate in the bores or something. Dunno. The rear end just swam and made a horrible noise. This was not actually that obvious while riding the bike interestingly enough. The Travis fork was a big let down. it was really not that supple over trail chop and had an amazingly linear stroke that I was able to bottom without trying very hard off a small drop on the upper trails. I was so surprised I went back and rode off it 2 more times, and stuffed the o-ring to the crown each time with a good thunk. The Revox shock also was somewhat bucky and choppy. Pedaling manners when applying easy to medium pressure to the cranks (say, during cruising or easy climbing) resulted in a huge amount of shock movement and a very soft feel. We measured the sag and came up with with about 30% so the spring rate my not have been quite right. This is a race bike after all, and I have to say that hard efforts like cranking when carrying speed up rock faces and sprinting did pull the rear end into a more solid state suspension-wise. The geometry was excellent and the handling spot-on for carrying speed through g-outs and around all manner of turns and over off-camber rock sections, but things were never really that plush. The IH Sunday totally blew this bike away in that regard.

[tscheezy]

Niner RIP9:
This was one of my favorite bikes last year, and again this year. It just does absolutely everything superbly, and just rips every type of trai surface at Bootleg. It compared very closely to the Sultan, but the RIP9 was just a hair plusher. It was like we could feel and take advantage of the extra 1/2" of rear wheel travel vs the Sultan. The Minute 29er fork also simply felt like more fork than the Reba. Both forks were fairly plush in their travel, but the Manitou simply offered more of that travel feel and the Minute was noticeably stiffer than the Reba despite both being QR forks with 32mm stanchions. The Niner just railed everything and screamed through rock gardens with hardly a hint of losing momentum where other bikes got jackhammered to a standstill. Both the RIP9 and Sultan are extremely fast feeling bikes with very similar geometries, handling characteristics, and suspension qualities. They both maintained speed over all trail surfaces and landed modest drops with smooth and confident ability. Both offered superb pedaling manners in all instances and rewarded efforts with pure forward progress. The RIP9 and Sultan seemed similarly stiff, though the edge here may go to the Sultan despite the flexier Reba fork. The curvey and highly manipulated tubes of the Niner offered a pretty different but quite pleasing aesthetic. Both the Niner and Sultan were among the smoothest and most stable and well mannered of ANY of the bikes we rode at the demo. Between the two 29ers, would have to give the advantage to the RIP9 though for it's more impressive fork and slightly plusher ride since all other characteristics were too close to call for me. A great all-round bike and very highly recommended from a ride performance standpoint.

































Lenz Behemoth:
I rode the Behemoth and Leviathan two years ago and came away thinking they were ok, but not great. This year we had a fairly similar impression of them, and we all preferred the Niner and Sultan despite these bikes having less travel. The ride was good, just not exceptional the way we had come to expect from 29ers. Both the old Vanilla coil and the WB F135 fork just felt dated and unsophisticated. Not that the Reba or Manitou were earth shattering, but they seemed more seamless and made trail obstacles disappear better. It turned out that the air preload in the WB was a bit high, and that would have accounted for some of the uninspired ride in front. As a chassis I did not find the WB to be any stiffer than the Manitou despite the latter having a QR. I generally find Lenz bikes to be quite unattractive though the pink with pink Chris King bits was a nice touch. Overall however I don't think any of us were that excited over this bike. We meant to go back and ride it a second time with a better tuned F135, but you know how that goes. The Hayes Stroker brakes had a very sticky master cylinder piston on one side that refused to return normally and didn't have the greatest feel overall in any regard. By comparison, the new XT stoppers (see Tomac Snyper) with the new radial master cylinders were simply amazing feeling.

[tscheezy]

Titus El Guapo:
This bike was very stiff and efficient feeling under power. It exhibited great climbing manners and railed through the smoother and cruisy parts of the trail. It didn't strike me as compliant and smooth over trail chatter as some of the other 6" bikes on the market. It had a far less dead feeling than last year's Guapo which had a RS Pearl shock (good riddance). The suspension was relatively easy to bottom at air pressure settings that allowed normal sag, and bottoming announced itself with loud tire buzz on the front derailleur cable stop just like last year. I suffered a lot of pedal strikes which is something others commented on last year but I did not notice then. The Formula brakes were very powerful. Perhaps too much so, as they lacked modulation and were a bit too grabby in front for my taste. Dropping down in rotor size or going to a different compound may help. The bike's headset was loose. There was a very stiff shifting action with the rear derailleur and I couldn't tell if it was contamination or something to do with the routing. The bike uses full-length housing so I doubt the former is the case. The saddle rails were creaky in the extreme were they were held by the seatpost clamp. We found this to be the case on the Motolite too. I think both used Maxm components. The Talas fork needed some help too as it seemed to not want to go to 160 consistently and even when racked out just felt sort of poopy. It is possible that this bike had been on the Titus demo tour for a while and was just in need of a little lube, adjusting, and TLC. Despite my niggles with the setup, this was one of KRob's favorite 6" bikes at the demo. The Chumba EVO was quite a bit plusher however, and every bit as solid performing.

























Pivot Mach 5:
Very solid pedaling manners both standing and seated when climbing, though descending performance seemed to be a bit of a compromise. DW-Links are purported to have excellent small bump compliance in general, but that behavior was not really in evidence on the Mach 5. We checked the Propedal lever a number of times to see if we had accidentally ended up on the RP23's activated compression setting, but we consistent rode it in the plush mode. When Pivot set the bike up they consulted the air pressure tables and we started out at ~170psi, but during the climb up the canyon on Girlscout we progressively dropped the air pressure due to a very stiff rear end until we ended up down around 110psi. This proved to be about right for us since we could get close to full travel out of the bike on medium sized trail drops and the bike finally achieved any sort of trail compliance. Even at the lower pressure with us being able to push the o-ring all the way down the shock shaft, the bike never achieved the sensitivity over small to medium trail chatter we were looking for. One of the testers thought the ride characteristics compared closely to his Ells Epiphany. I thought it felt a bit like last year's Felt Virtue 2. The initial travel acted fairly stiff and then exhibited the feel of a falling rate linkage. The suspension seemed stiff and yet before you knew it, the o-ring was at the end of the shaft. The bike was outfitted with a very long stem (~120mm) for a 5" trailbike, but it did not feel overly long despite having a ~24.25" tt in the size large (all of us were right around 5'11" with similar inseams). The bb height felt just right and the overall cockpit size and geometry was a pleasant xc-leaning blend similar to the Motolite, 5-Spot, Snyper, etc. The bike was an inspired climber and generally a great pedaller but it just seemed to get overwhelmed by the rough trail chop Bootleg Canyon has in spades (also similar to the Felt Virtue last year). We couldn't soften the shock in air pressure without getting harsh bottomout and there was no place to go to soften the shock's damping at that point. The construction is simply masterful with beautiful machining and manipulated bits. We all agreed it was well-executed and beautifully built, but from a ride perspective it was not outstanding in the 5" trailbike category as far as the three of us were concerned due to lack of suppleness over trail chop. The best 5" bikes in this manner were the Endorphin and 5-Spot. The bike felt quite stiff and solid, likely aided by the very wide-stanced pivots and stout links. This seemed to constrict room in the bottom bracket area however, and Pivot is using their own proprietary pressed-in bearings which will accept most current x-cranks (though not Truvativ). Personally, I'm not a big fan of internal headsets, proprietary parts in high-wear and consumable components like BB's, odd front derailleur mounting systems, etc. Had the ride wowed me more, I guess I would look over a few of these design idiosyncrasies.

[tscheezy]

Turner Sultan:
As I mentioned above, this bike compared very favorably with the RIP9 in every way, and along with the Niner, was among the smoothest riding of any of the trailbikes at the demo. 29ers have a particular feel to them and so far among the bikes I have tried, the Sultan and Niner exhibit the most refined and pleasant execution of this. Traction is excellent, and whereas I was flatting in the rear with almost every bike on the mountain, I never had any issues with either of these 29ers. I was trying my best to find their limits and was not going easy on them in any way. Construction and ride quality was typical Turner. The bike strikes a much more traditional and classic profile than the Niner, and the heavier reliance on straighter tubes and longer arms may have helped boost the stiffness a touch compared to the RIP9. The Reba was adequate for the job, but I cannot help but wonder if the ride would have been improved with another inch of travel up front and a bit more A-C to slacken the angles a hair. In this dress the Sultan is a precise XC carving machine (not something I would normally associate with a 29er). It was not in need of stability, just a fork that was a match for the rock gardens you will find yourself screaming into. Switchbacks were no issue, and step ups and drop offs handled with aplomb. Climbing was superb and I never felt any desire for quicker acceleration which is a common complaint with 29ers (though most of the other bikes we rode were MUCH heavier, so that could explain a lot). If you couldn't tell, the Sultan and RIP9 could do no wrong.





















Turner Highline:
Short, and upright cockpit with an extremely short stem: a very FR-feeling setup. Rear felt a little bouncy even with the rebound cranked dialed in while the Totem sounded like a toilet flushing with every rebound stroke (though it was pretty plush). The climbing was extremely good as we found in previous years, though in this size the bike seemed a bit cramped with the tiny stem and shrunken sizing Turner recently went to. I was far more comfortable on the XL, so I will save most of my comments for that review found later in this thread. Among FR bikes, the Highline is consistently among the very best pedalers irrespective of shocks, linkage flavors, or amount of suspension. An incredibly solid bike in every way. If you are a devotee of big bikes and haven't been on one, you haven't lived.



























Titus Motolite:
Quick and precise. Very good pedaling manners both seated and out of the saddle, though looking down you could see a fair bit of shock movement during standing efforts. This did not seem to result in even perceived energy loss, the bike had a very sprightly feel to it. It tracked quite well through rock gardens and offered a nicely balanced and intuitive ride. I am not a big fan of carbon on bikes that are going to see rock contact like a trailbike, but the stays and rocker are very tastefully done and well executed. It is a very attractive bike and was a lot of fun to ride. It compares very favorably with other 5" models like the Spot, Covert, and Snyper et al. I am not really a fan of Fox Floats as they never seem to get more than about 4" of travel, and this one was no different. The saddle rails creaked something fierce, just like on the Pivot. Tire clearance seemed adequate if not generous. The rear derailleur whacking the Horst link was very annoying, and why anyone would spec Shimano shifters and rear derailleurs on a rig other than on a road bike is beyond me.

[tscheezy]

Nevermind.

[jncarpenter]

Perfect timing!!!

Thanks again Tscheez!

Good heavens, that Foes air shock (Curnutt) is staggeringly Ginormous

[Pinch]

Been waiting all day to see the reviews start rolling in. Excellent.

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Scripture on the Felt is kinda creepy. They should have named it The Exorcist.

The rear pivot bolt looks puny but I dig the brake mount. Is that an integrated headset on that bike or just a reducer?

[blackagness]

Did we develop a new system this yr?

Any words to accompany photo's?

Looks good so far dough! Thanks for another year.

[oly]

Whats this about?

[tscheezy]

Flex.

[CDMC]

Great photos, I can't wait to hear your thoughts about the new Pivot from Chris Chocolis.

[Locomoto]

looking forward to your documented impressions of each of these bikes...assuming you have time to write that sort of a novel

[trailadvent]

Im biased but without doubt outta all those bikes the Highline s the best looking ha..

Nice n clean, sweet cable routing, and good specc for Ibike thumbs up!!

Whats with the wierd routing on the Socom and SS strange, SS would be good to get some goss on though.

And one for Dusty theres a new DW link bike there Pivot mach 5, I'd heard DW had licenced to someone else interesting..

[trailadvent]

Good stuff tschezzy we need some IBike Stoke cheers

Did u get to ride the Knolly yet?

Wierd seat angle on that thing (ED) but the quality of the ED looks awesome.

So thoughts on the 55 ATA, 20mm QR?

and new Magura brakes
esspecailly the master cylinder clamp bar interface with shifters?

cheers

[cave dweller]

Dam, that large high line looks awsome. Last years looked fugly, looks like turner has improved the standover heaps. Sweet

[crisillo]

great stuff, tscheezy!

[scepticshock]

Love this time of year. Rock on!

[SHAHEEB]

Phillip Tscheezy, looks like you are having a good time!

Did the foes have linkages that felt loose or clacking?

the sultan sure looks sweet, classic turner quality.

[scrublover]

I love the aesthetics of the rear caliper tucked inside the frame, when it can be done. Toying with a new custom ti hardtail to replace my Peyto eventually (exact same sizing/geometry) and that on'e of the things I'd love to have on it. Thoug I also want to make it Rohloff compatable; those two things might not play well together.

Anyone else really not dig the looks of big ol' bolt heads sticking out of rocker arms/shock mounts and so on? Sheesh. On frames as spendy as these things are, a bit of countersinking is in order.

That Knolly Endorphin is seeeeeeeexy!

(non-Homer lurker out. what can i say? you guys always have the best tech stuff!)

[trailadvent]

Interesting review from speedgoat @ IBIKE on Mach 4 and Mach 5

The Pivot Mach 4 and Mach 5 bikes are the result of collaboration between Chris Cocalis (the founder of Titus) and Dave Weagle (creator of the patented DW-link suspension system). Having been one of the foundational guys using a Horst-link, Chris has been fine-tuning DW’s system for some time now, and we knew we were going to be riding something very special today. The bikes did not disappoint.

http://www.speedgoat.com/blog.asp?p=1083

more info on other stuff @

pinkbike

singletrack

[dogvet]

Tscheezy
Great pics as usual. looking forward to text.
Cannot help thinking that despite how well some of the more complex linkage bikes might ride, here in the UK they are going to be carrying a huge amout of mud around the BB area within 5 minutes of the ride.
Highlines lines look so clean,great bike.

[miles e]

Originally Posted by trailadvent

Interesting review from speedgoat @ IBIKE on Mach 4 and Mach 5

Definitely interesting bikes, but it's simply disgusting how Speedgoat gushes over Chris Cocalis and everything he touches.

All of a sudden the European road bikes he's distributing redefine what a road bike should be, at least according to Speedgoat. And what do you know, he just did the same for the modern mountain bike too.

[RaD]

As always you did some great work there!
The photos show what I like to see,they leave close to no question behind,almost like being there.
Thank you very much for the stoke Mr.T

RaD

[big_olly]

Thanks for putting in the effort once again, tscheezy.
Looking forward to the writeups.

[Warp]

TS... Thanks for the effort!!!

I hope you don't pay attention to last year criticisms and share with us your riding impressions and components/frames reviews.

Your work is much appreciated by a lot of us and I'd love to read your write-up.

Thanks!!! Big Thank you!!

[hball]

hey philip,

thanks for the pics. please keep them coming!

btw. the flex on the socom is faked, irght!?

[tscheezy]

Originally Posted by Warp

I hope you don't pay attention to last year criticisms and share with us your riding impressions and components/frames reviews.

Nope. I look forward to panning your favorite scooter.

I need to type things up, think about it some more, consult my notes, talk to the rest of the demo posse, etc. before getting text posted up. It's been busy, ya know?

A thumbnail: the Mach 5 was ok. No better, no worse. The Socom was a huge POS. FLEXY, CREAKY, the Travis would bottom off curbs, the rear end was harsh, the cable routing a nightmare. The geometry was great, but otherwise it was a horrible bike. Best bike of the day? Niner RIP9. Sultan a close second. The Manitou 29er fork was great even in QR. The WB F135 not so great. Zoke 55 shows huge potential.

Etc.

[1soulrider]

Nice photos.
Too bad that orange Socom was blocking our veiw of the SS......

[aixelsyd]

Thanks TS. Like others said its great to be able to see whats coming down the pipe ahead of time and here the impressions from real people.
have fun
Mark

[Bob the Wheelbuilder]

Anyone still on dialup (are there such unfortunates?) is going to hate ya tscheez!

That SOCOM pic turned out to be pretty illustrative, didn't it?

[AOK]

Originally Posted by tscheezy

The Manitou 29er fork was great even in QR. The WB F135 not so great.

Can't wait to hear more details on this. I've only read raves about the F135 so far. And the only Manitou 29er review I read was not very favorable.

[kidwoo]

Originally Posted by 1soulrider

Nice photos.
Too bad that orange Socom was blocking our veiw of the SS......

Ha.........so true.



Funny thing about those intense bikes and dw link iron horses. When you grab the wheel from the top.....well, you see what happens. Pushing laterally on the crank however (more representative of what happens when riding) it's nothing like what you see in the pic.

Not saying socoms aren't flimsy, because they are. Just that doing what the cheeze is doing in that pic is not a reflection of how the bike deals with flex on the trail.


That pic is still funny as hell.

[jncarpenter]

Originally Posted by kidwoo

Ha.........so true.



Funny thing about those intense bikes and dw link iron horses. When you grab the wheel from the top.....well, you see what happens. Pushing laterally on the crank however (more representative of what happens when riding) it's nothing like what you see in the pic.

Not saying socoms aren't flimsy, because they are. Just that doing what the cheeze is doing in that pic is not a reflection of how the bike deals with flex on the trail.


That pic is still funny as hell.

I tend to think that it would be how the bike deals with flex on the trail for uneven off-camber sections and hard cornering.....right?

[SSINGA]

Originally Posted by jncarpenter

I tend to think that it would be how the bike deals with flex on the trail for uneven off-camber sections and hard cornering.....right?

The 6.6 that Appbling owned handled it that way......braaaaaaaaapppppp went the tire on the stays!

[big-ted]

Originally Posted by SSINGA

The 6.6 that Appbling owned handled it that way......braaaaaaaaapppppp went the tire on the stays!

Well that, and the pic posted would suggest that the wheel was just in need of some tensioning/ stiffer rim, and nothing to do with the frame.

[RSutton1223]

Originally Posted by big-ted

Well that, and the pic posted would suggest that the wheel was just in need of some tensioning/ stiffer rim, and nothing to do with the frame.

Not really...if the area around the axle is flexing more than closer to the front triangle, then the tire would hit. Basically the rear end would be twisting.

[LyNx]

.......only on the lowest wirelsss get about 15k a sec DL so it took long to load this thread - but well worth it. thanks Tscheezy, Great job on the photos, can't wait for the write ups Very interested to read your take on the Manitou since the WB135 has been getting such great press/reviews and you find the M better.

Originally Posted by Bob the Wheelbuilder

Anyone still on dialup (are there such unfortunates?) is going to hate ya tscheez!

[kidwoo]

Originally Posted by jncarpenter

I tend to think that it would be how the bike deals with flex on the trail for uneven off-camber sections and hard cornering.....right?

Only if you ride your bike upside down and your tire patch is on the top where his hand is

Seriously though.....go find an uzzi, 6.6, socom etc and try it. If you do what schteeze did, you get the result in that pic. But that's not mimicking the contact points you utilize when riding, which are the cranks and the bottom of the wheel. You'll see it flex like crazy grabbing the top of the wheel and the seat, but pushing sideways on the cranks and just using the friction from the bottom of the wheel produces an entirely different behavior.

I don't pretend to understand why, because I honestly don't. But that grabbing the top of the wheel trick is no reflection on how the bike flexes when ridden. Pushing on the cranks is however similar to what is going on in a hard turn.

While we're on the topic though: do try this with a socom, and watch how much that front triangle flexes between the bottom bracket and headtube when you push laterally on the cranks. It's pretty entertaining.

[roy harley]

Did yeti have a Built up ASR Carbon bike to test ride? Did they have there 7" travel bike to demo?

Great pictures!!!

Thanks once again for bring the pictures to the people!!!

[2TurnersNotEnough]

I think that the picture demonstrates 2 things: 1 there may be some flex in the wheel. And 2, that lateral stiffness may be acceptable as Woo pointed out, but JNC's point about off camber turns and ruts and the sorts of nastiness that induces torsional loads on the rear are going to make the Socom an interesting (and sketchy) experience.

It reminds me of when I went from my Mac strut frame (Stinger) to the the Flux. They're similar in lateral rigidity, but the four bar is so much better when the terrain wants to spin the wheel like a propeller.

[CrashTheDOG]

Anybody else notice the 1.5 King headset on the Highline?

[RSutton1223]

Originally Posted by CrashTheDOG

Anybody else notice the 1.5 King headset on the Highline?

You mean this one?



"The red monster on the right is its new big brother. Meet the 1.5 NoThreadSet completely redesigned from the ground up. 230 grams and $169"

[Zip]

The Highline is looking more like a trail bike. I wonder if a lighter version of this could eventually eliminate the EFX from the Turner line up??

[boone]

Great stuff as usually ts. Many thanks for all the hard/fun work!!
...so wish I could be there checkin all the new stuff


ahhhh...any chance of a quick pic/review of the new banshee Rune from keith?

[Random Drivel]

Noice . . . I want one of those pink Behemoths!

[squish]

TS, the flex in the rear end is pretty reflective of what I saw while I was out in Rapid City this spring. Watching the rear end of the bike twist side to side was quiet entertaining and baffeling. Especially through the rocks and rough, there was a lot of side to side and twisting motion going on. That was on an Intense 6.6 I believe.

Gonna go with everyone else here, great shots, and I'm looking forward to see your write up of some of these bikes.

happy trails...

squish

[rmac]

Great stuff TS. Looking forward to the write-ups.

[Fat Elvis]

Originally Posted by tscheezy

Best bike of the day? Niner RIP9.

I was in Flagstaff for a couple of days in july, and rented a rip9. It's the only time I've been on a 29'er, and I've got to say it was by far the best bike I've ever been on (not that I've ridden all that many bikes, but still, it wasn't even close). The first day I rode it, I had no time to adjust tire or shock pressures, and it was basically a rigid bike (with the tires at 55 psi; the shock was at 250 psi (2X what it needed), and the reba fork at 150 psi (~2X too much). It was still a great ride. Now I understand the attraction of the bigger wheels. I felt like I was doing half as much work climbing. And the damn thing accelerated so fast on the slightest downhills, even when coasting. That bike was a lot of fun, but I can't really afford a new bike for a while, so I really wish I hadn't ridden it.

[techFiend]

Originally Posted by 2TurnersNotEnough

I think that the picture demonstrates 2 things: 1 there may be some flex in the wheel. And 2, that lateral stiffness may be acceptable as Woo pointed out, but JNC's point about off camber turns and ruts and the sorts of nastiness that induces torsional loads on the rear are going to make the Socom an interesting (and sketchy) experience.

Would it really be more sketchy, or does it add more bite?

What if the flexing frame/pivots add another dimension of compliance to the ride, just like supple rear suspension adds traction to s super stiff frame?

Think about it, frame stiffness originated from the desire to be efficient and fast, from the era of hardtails. But what about steel frames and their famed compliance and ride quality? What about suspension and flex? Is flex really unwanted?

[kidwoo]

Originally Posted by techFiend

Would it really be more sketchy, or does it add more bite?

What if the flexing frame/pivots add another dimension of compliance to the ride, just like supple rear suspension adds traction to s super stiff frame?

Think about it, frame stiffness originated from the desire to be efficient and fast, from the era of hardtails. But what about steel frames and their famed compliance and ride quality? What about suspension and flex? Is flex really unwanted?

Lateral flex is bad because it's not controlled. (damped if you will)

What you get is a rear end that loads up and then releases, either skipping your tire laterally or bouncing your body weight in the opposite direction you're trying to lean as the frame recovers.
When cornering hard, you want your tires to go where you aim them......not in a large realm of 'possible angles'. Suspension is designed with only one degree of motion for a reason........ Allowing a bike to flex laterally with no controlling perameters other than the characteristics of the material and design is sketchy because for the most part, it's unpredictable. The wheel will wander under some loads where traction is good but load and then skip where traction is worse. For the most part the 'regular' suspension part of your bike behaves in a consistant manner than can be anticipated.

Steel isn't necessarily any more compliant, it just resonates in a more tolerable fashion that doesn't shake your teeth out. It's a more 'damped' feel.

[2TurnersNotEnough]

Originally Posted by techFiend

Would it really be more sketchy, or does it add more bite?

What if the flexing frame/pivots add another dimension of compliance to the ride, just like supple rear suspension adds traction to s super stiff frame?

Think about it, frame stiffness originated from the desire to be efficient and fast, from the era of hardtails. But what about steel frames and their famed compliance and ride quality? What about suspension and flex? Is flex really unwanted?

Sketchy. The reason is that the torsional forces are not being damped, so there is little to no control to how much twist there is going to be and what happens when it twists back. In your example, addditional rear wheel traction is maintained because there is a damper that controls how closely the wheel follows the terrain. With just a spring, you end up with a pogo stick that will likely do the exact opposite.

Have you ever heard the term noodly or whippy? That's what happens when a bike is not stiff enough in the other planes. Even hardtails and rigid bikes (e.g. road bikes) are built to be more compliant in the wheel's vertical plane and work like hell to be stiff laterally and torsionally.

Edit: Crap Woo, you beat me to it.

[CrashTheDOG]

Originally Posted by Zip

The Highline is looking more like a trail bike. I wonder if a lighter version of this could eventually eliminate the EFX from the Turner line up??

I rode El Chingon's Highline this morning and I don't think that it's far off the pace of a beefied up RFX. It pedals surprisingly efficient for such a large bike.

[Roy]

I noticed that the Lenz is the only other bike, besides Turner, that routes on top of the top tube. Hmmm.......

[blackagness]

I already don't like where this is going, with all this horse$hit 29er love.


But I do thank you again for the effort... Surly there are better things you could be doing so BIG thanks for taking up your time to fill us all in.

[demo_slug]

Originally Posted by techFiend

Would it really be more sketchy, or does it add more bite?

What if the flexing frame/pivots add another dimension of compliance to the ride, just like supple rear suspension adds traction to s super stiff frame?

Think about it, frame stiffness originated from the desire to be efficient and fast, from the era of hardtails. But what about steel frames and their famed compliance and ride quality? What about suspension and flex? Is flex really unwanted?

good question:

there was a bike MFG that I will not mention(rocky mountain) that once claimed that the lateral flex was designed in to help carve tighter corners.

so you can think of that rear flex as acting like "rear wheel steering". this is not a good idea IMHO
1. becuase its not damped ( as mentioned it will spring back and give you a wigglle at the exit of the corner)
2. because when you are plowing thru rock gradens or off camber situations your "rear wheel steering" will kick in when you are not expecting it or want it.

when discribing how a laterally stiff bike rides, a lot of people will use phrases like " It goes where you point it". and sometimes also "it goes straight down hill", "it holds a line"

about 4 years ago I had this marin rock springs, six inch single pivot. And I'd be following my buddys and there was this rocky section that they would zip right thru. I thought they was beter riders becuase I had to go slower, becuase I knew that once I hit that rock garden... I would have to react/recover because there was no real way of knowing where I would be pointed after the first round of rocks. but. I got a new frame and to my surprise, I go straight thru it, every time.. same fork, tires, rims... everything

[tscheezy]

Turner Spot:
I own one of these (an 03 updated with 5.3 rockers), so the ride characteristics were no huge surprise. The cool thing was hopping on one after riding a phalanx of other ~5" bikes and being just as satisfied as ever. KRob (currently a HH100X and 6.6 owner) also thought it was the best 5" trailbike we rode. It just took the edge off rock gardens a hair better than the other mid-range travel bikes we rode with the possible exception of the Knolly. It didn't hurt that this bike had a Float fork that was a bit less lame than the other ones we rode. The sizing Turner moved to recently shrank all the sizes a bit and the top tube on this Spot made the whole package feel a bit more more nimble and zippy than mine. I would say the ride characteristics have crept a bit in the direction of more xc-feeling rigs like the Motolite. The rear end was rock solid and the bike tracks through the rough magnificenty. It was noticeably better in the rough than the Pivot, Covert, and a number of other rigs, and roughly comparable to the Motolite and Knolly. Carrying speed into and out of corners and blasting right up rock faces is this bike's specialty. I felt that the suspension compressed a bit less under power than the Motolite's did. Perhaps comparable to the Knolly. The climbing is excellent and the suppleness offers a leg up over the Pivot. It comes together wonderfully as a package and rides like a Turner in every way. Those that know what that means, know what I mean.































Turner Highline (XL): (This one's for Dusty)
This is the third year I have ridden Highlines at IBike. We rode the first ones two years ago when they had Boxxer Rides and 36t single chainrings mounted. We liked the bikes but felt the Boxxers and gearing were not the right pairing for Bootleg on a bike that was supposed to climb. Last year they had Totems and dual rings and proved themselves to be the best climbing big FR bikes among those we demoed. I think most of us that rode together agreed it was the best bike we tried. I rode three Highlines last year in various dress and I was pretty amazed at the versatility. Riding the large on Monday this year was a little bit of a disappointment because it didn't feel immediately intuitive to me the way other HLs had. Switching to the XL late on Tuesday totally changed the experience and the bike absolutely stomped all. If you have every ridden a Yeti ASX, Foes Inferno, or Devinci Wilson or similar big FR bike may think that they are all a bit piggy and climbing is just suffering by definition. Go try a Highline and you may be surprised that weight aside, these things motor up hill with amazing capability. A lot of big bikes feel like you are in a Johnny-Jump-Up when you pedal out of the saddle. The Highline's suspension reacts very modestly to out of the saddle efforts and while I wouldn't want to do huge climbing days on one, they make going uphill as pleasant as any bike of the genre I have ridden except maybe the VPFree. And going downhill is a damned inspiring experience. It is not as plush as a true DH bike like the Cuervo, DHR, or Sunday, but then again those absolutely suck going any direction other than downslope. If I lived somewhere where I had an actual use for one of these, I would be all over one like white on rice. The construction has to be seen to be appreciated. A thoroughly spankin' bike.

[tscheezy]

Transition Covert:
A very fun and flickable bike. They were out of size large frames at the demo tent, so we took a medium (which the Transition guys steered us towards anyway). It felt a lot like a 5-Spot in many ways, but in it's slightly undersized form it took on an even more zippy and maneuverable attitude until it really started feeling like a 4X racing frame to me. It just ripped and railed through all flavors of smooth trail features. The overall geometry was excellent with a nice tight feel, intuitive handling, and a responsive pedaling manner. Out of the saddle efforts did make the suspension cycle a moderate amount, but with no sensation of energy loss. The seat stays are EXTREMELY wide (see pic). I basically never have issues with rubbing my heels on any other bikes, and I actually hit my ankle bones on the seat stays in a painful way a few times. The chainstays are nicely shaped to be out of the way. I cannot guess why they would not do the same with the seat stays which are straight and placed unnecessarily far outboard in my opinion. The Fox Float rear shock did a pretty decent job when paired with a fairly rising rate feeling suspension, but the ride didn't feel like a full 5.5" bike in terms of plushness in rock gardens. It was close though, and the suspension compares very closely to similar bikes like the Motolite. The bike came shod with some kinda puny tires given Bootleg Canyon's pinch-flatting prone chunk, so I pumped the tires up way hard which may have detracted from the feel in the rough to a degree. Note to manufacturers: take a page from Knolly's playbook and put the bike together in a way that will give testers the greatest chance of being pleased when they take your bike out and beat the unholy poo out of them. Big, tough tires are a minimum for a trailbike at Bootleg.

























Tomac Snyper:
Tomac bikes have travelled a somewhat rough road in recent years. It is nice to have the brand back, though I have to admit that I found their previous efforts greatly lacking in the aesthetics department. The Snyper while not a thing of boundless beauty is a huge step in the right direction. Better yet, it offers a pretty impressive ride. The bike was a spirited climber after we got the rear shock pressurized correctly. The tech at the booth seemed to be a little confused about a good starting pressure and in a quest to offer a plush ride had us start out with a spongy 130psi in the shock which had me bottoming just by rolling through a few dips on the climb. I ended up at a rather high 210psi before this behavior was really under control. Things really looked up at this point though, as the bike came alive and offered some of the most natural and balanced handling of any of the trailbikes we had ridden. It handled the rough stuff with aplomb, rolled off small drops with nary a hiccup, and it really pedaled like a champ. After diving into rocky wash bottoms, the bike accelerated easily up the loose gravel and powdered rock on the far side either seated or out of the saddle. This bike was the sleeper of the demo among those we rode and it earned high marks from us in almost every regard and was very competitive with the Motolite, Spot, and similar bikes. The frame has well thought out gussets and reinforcements and strikes a nice stout profile. It offers good standover and a refined overall finish. The hydroforming in the BB is well done and unique looking. The rear tire clearance was not acceptable though. The new radial master cylinder XT brakes felt truly amazing. They had the best lever action and feel of any brake I can think of recently. I mentioned this to Dave Turner as I know he as the new XT stuff on his personal RFX and he said he had to go back to the old style levers due to repeated leaks from the new ones. A shame as these things felt really great.

[tscheezy]

Nicolai Helius FR(?):
This was a bike I picked up at the Kenda booth since I got the feeling Crazy Fred would put a hit out on me if I didn't. Nicolai didn't seem to have a booth this year and I could have probably hidden behind that as an excuse, but when I saw this little blue scooter at the booth next to Turner's it seemed like a no brainer. This was not a current Nicolai model and seemed to be on loan from a local shop as a vehicle to show off some Kenda rubber (Blue Groove 2.5 iirc). The demo started out a bit inauspicious in that the person who put the bike together either put the front shock shuttle in an overly far forward position or specced the wrong size shock on the bike. The result was that the rear tire slammed into the seat tube after about 2/3 of the shock's stroke. I was banging pedals a bit prior to that, so sliding the shuttle back and raising the BB was not exactly an unwelcome development. Surprisingly enough, the bike's handling didn't change a whole lot with the steeper angles and higher BB, and that was a good thing. The Nicolai was dead solid and a superb pedaling machine (despite some continued pedal strikes). The bike's geometry is spot on and the whole thing rolls down the trail with true authority. The suspension was very smooth and well mannered and the whole package smacked of a Knolly on a number of levels. I personally like the adjustability of the bike's many shock shuttle positions and swing link mounting holes, but it would be pretty easy to set the bike up quite poorly in terms of shock performance or geometry (as it was when handed to us). The shocks on the bike were somewhat lacking and we never got full travel out of the Swinger or Nixon. Putting some real shocks on this bike would only serve to enhance an already really sweet rig. I really enjoyed my time on the Nicolai and would love to spend some time on a more current incarnation of this chassis.















































Marin Quad XLT:
This was another bike I grabbed opportunistically from the Kenda booth. I have long been curious about the Quad Link designs and so this was hard to pass up. While riding along and looking down, it is fascinating to see the scissor links and such going through their motions. There is a hell of a lot of metal moving every which way, and even when parked the bike looks busy. In fact, it looks like a tandem that fell into a trash compactor. The bike weighs as much as it looks and was a fair handful to pedal around and maintain speed on. The suspension was sort of bouncy and bucky through rock gardens and off drops. The geometry was decent, the bike just felt a bit portly and uninspired. I have ridden plenty of other bikes with this amount of travel that had more pep and a smoother feel. Matters were not helped with a lackluster performing Talas 36. The DHX rear needed a rather high pressure of 230psi to resist bottoming. Overall just not enough plushness for the pork.

[tscheezy]

Chumba EVO:
This was one of the best bikes of the show. When we rode one last year we loved basically everything about it except for the ridiculously shallow seat angle. With the saddle raised to full pedaling height, we ended up about a mile behind having our knee over the pedal spindle (KOPS). The modestly steeped seat tube angle on the EVO brought things back into the realm of acceptability, though quite a bit of the rider's weight still seemed to be on the back of the bike and there was a mildly stretched out and squatty feel as the bike sagged or climbed. Not all bad though, as this made the rear end of the bike feel as plush as anything we rode. The chassis is extremely stiff and burly, and the linkage offered a very capable ride in terms of pedaling and bump compliance. The shock seemed to easily give up its first half of travel which made the bike seem to float over trail obstacles, but it still had a respectable ramp up to resist bottoming. Among the Lyrik U-Turn forks we rode, this one had the best feel to it and it complimented the EVO nicely. Overall the EVO was one of the plushest and most pleasant riding bikes at the demo that we took out and for folks looking for a laid back and flowy mannered bike, this is one to consider and one we wholeheartedly recommend. If you want something a bit more responsive and aggressive feeling, there are other options out there (presumably including the Chumba XCL which we did not ride).

































Bionicon SuperShuttle:
This was a very interesting bike. Via a thumb activated knob by the left grip, the rider can allow air to move between a chamber mounted on between the shock and a chamber in the fork. As this air is allowed to flow back and forth, it increases the shock's effective eye to eye length while lowering the fork's axle to crown height, or vice versa. The adjustment is quite noticeable and effective, and operating the button while the rider shifts their weight quickly becomes intuitive. If anything, the resulting changes in shock and fork length verge on a bit too extreme, but better that than not enough in my book. When in the "climbing" mode, the fork becomes quite diminutive and the shock grows considerably. The result is a very steep head angle and a bike pitched forward very aggressively which allows the rider to feel nearly level on even steep ascents. The alternate extreme transforms the SuperShuttle into a mini DH bike with a very shallow and rearward biased feel. A pretty nifty trick. This differs from the old Talas rear shocks where you would actually lose travel when shortening the shock. This shock retains it's primary stroke no matter how much the i2i changes. The air piston that is responsible for lengthening and shortening the i2i does actually contribute a little to the shock's compression (it is filled with compressible air after all), but it is pretty negligible and not really part of the "travel". Speaking of travel, it is actually pretty high quality. When in "DH" mode, the SuperShuttle is surprisingly plush and well mannered. The rearward bias is quite pronounced and it really takes on the flavor of a little DH rocket. The rear shock hooks up great and the high/forward single pivot design soaks up bumps admirably. The fork, despite being a plain old quick release wheel style, holds its own as well. Not too shabby. I honestly expected a lot of compromises to be made in the suspension department as I figured most of the engineering effort would have gone into the rocking horse features, but the bike actually works as a whole quite well, dampers and all. My only real complaints revolve around the fact that is was hard to hit a middle ground between the climbing and DH modes. Maybe this was just a matter of practice, but depressing the air system knob and adjusting the rider's center of gravity seemed to quickly result in either a shrunken fork and ginormous shock, or the other extreme. When you did settle into a middling, regular bike mode, you never really quite feel confident you are anywhere in particular in the setup. Is the fork extended? Did the shock shrink? While adjusting both ends with one knob is a real paradigm shift, I cannot help but wonder if it wouldn't be nice to be able to adjust both separately if you wanted to. Lastly, the bike seemed a bit beat up and there were creaks and groans coming from here and there. The chain slap on the swingarm was loud, and the tire clearance was not what I would call abundant. The stem setup was also weird as hell, but stiff and effective. Overall a very fun bike to ride and it offered surprisingly good performance in the damper department.

[tscheezy]

That's about it for now. See you guys in St George!!!!

[tscheezy]

This space for rent.

[tscheezy]

Ellsworth sucks.

[squish]

Wow, not a lot of mud room on that Tomac eh! I don't think I could even get my little finger in there.

happy trails...

squish

[tscheezy]

Updated. I'll try to get around to adding text someday.

[Flyer]

Thanks for all the hard work, TS. Keep them coming and we are waiting for your eventual ride reports.

[DLd]

You gotta hand it to Marin, they sure know how to make an UGLY bike.

Looking forward to hearing all your riding impressions.
thanks,
d

[All Mountain]

thank-you tscheesy

when you do the text, please give us the oil on EG w/ RP23 compared to last year... and maybe some thoughts on it compared to an RCFX

[boone]

NSOO: Nicolai Something Or Other

Noice!! Dat be a Helius FR I think...unfortunately I think it is not the newest model either
Must be Matt does not have a new one yet? Can't wait to hear what you have to say about it.

Thanks again man!!

[Ventanarama]

Originally Posted by DLd

You gotta hand it to Marin, they sure know how to make an UGLY bike.

Looking forward to hearing all your riding impressions.
thanks,
d

Wow! No kidding. That has to be one of the ugliest bikes I've ever seen.

Larry
Mountain High Cyclery
larry@mtnhighcyclery.com

[Dusty Bottoms]

Originally Posted by tscheezy

This one's for Dusty.

Ugh, not even neccessary. The tractor beam is already on full blast.

[rodel]

Originally Posted by Ventanarama

Wow! No kidding. That has to be one of the ugliest bikes I've ever seen.

Larry
Mountain High Cyclery
larry@mtnhighcyclery.com

definitely in the running with the Chumba EVO

[PCinSC]

Originally Posted by tscheezy

Updated. I'll try to get around to adding text someday.

These pics are worthless without words!!!

Uh, I mean...nevermind. Carry on.

I really just wanted to subscribe to the thread.

[benja55]

Originally Posted by rodel

definitely in the running with the Chumba EVO

Chumba and Marin are off the charts fug. Seriously, it is hard to look at those bikes and want to even ride them.

WTF.

[tscheezy]

Originally Posted by Dusty Bottoms

The tractor beam is already on full blast.

Allow me to plug that beam into the 240v outlet briefly: I was not really getting the full love from the large we rode yesterday, so out of curiosity I grabbed a "size too big for me" in the form of the XL today. Holy fothermucker, that thing was sex on wheels.

Whew. One review down.

[jncarpenter]

Originally Posted by tscheezy

Allow me to plug that beam into the 240v outlet briefly: I was not really getting the full love from the large we rode yesterday, so out of curiosity I grabbed a "size too big for me" in the form of the XL today. Holy fothermucker, that thing was sex on wheels.

Whew. One review down.

Hmmmmm, I was considering going to the medium as I prefer the DH/FR fit a bit smaller, but now you have me second guessing.

Any idea what the ETT change was for 2008 on the Lg?

[crisillo]

great pics (again) TS... thanks ... now get going with the words

[ebxtreme]

Nicely done, Tscheezy. Looking forward to your reviews, as always.

Cheers,
EB

[Jon Edwards]

Be interested in a ride report on the Nicolai.

Could be a nice midpoint between an RFX and a Highline... Run it high and steep with an airshock and light wheels, or low and slack with a coil and beefy wheels.

Cool pics though!

Thanks...

[Acadian]

Thanks Phillip

[Faux Part Deux]

wow.....amazing pictures! perhaps its just coincidence, but each time this year for some reason i hate you more than usual!

gotta say....from a looks perspective, since aint no words yet, the 3 top bikes in my books are the orange highline, nicolai, and transition. the covert looks amazing (to me) and if it rides half as good as it looks it will no doubt be the best bang for the buck given its (relatively) low retail price.

thanks again for the pics; you really should consider a career in porn photography

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Originally Posted by Faux Part Deux

wow.....amazing pictures! perhaps its just coincidence, but each time this year for some reason i hate you more than usual!

gotta say....from a looks perspective, since aint no words yet, the 3 top bikes in my books are the orange highline, nicolai, and transition. the covert looks amazing (to me) and if it rides half as good as it looks it will no doubt be the best bang for the buck given its (relatively) low retail price.

thanks again for the pics; you really should consider a career in porn photography

The Nicolai looks utilitarian. But although it may BRING THE PAIN from Crazy Fred, I gotta say it's one of the ugliest bikes in the group.

The Knolly Endorphin is absolutely gorgeous but lots of metal. Are we looking at a 8+ pound 140mm travel frame?

[S-Works]

Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel

The Nicolai looks utilitarian. But although it may BRING THE PAIN from Crazy Fred, I gotta say it's one of the ugliest bikes in the group.

Was that a Nicolai I thought it was a Jamis

(Beat ya to it, Ben!!)

[Jerk_Chicken]

Originally Posted by Roy

I noticed that the Lenz is the only other bike, besides Turner, that routes on top of the top tube. Hmmm.......

Hope that stays.

[dulyebr]

You guys like the color on the Endorphin? I've got gunmetal ano (the color of the large demo on page 1) with a black ano rear triangle on order. Going to match it up with a diffusion black Pike.

I definitely prefer ano for the durability, but my eye keeps going back to the white pc...

[kosmo]

Originally Posted by tscheezy

I was not really getting the full love from the large we rode yesterday, so out of curiosity I grabbed a "size too big for me" in the form of the XL today. Holy fothermucker, that thing was sex on wheels.

Ah-ha, vindication -- from the King of This Forum no less -- of my opinion that anybody stuck between two frame sizes should always choose the larger, and simply fit a shorter stem.

Thx for all the pix Ts, and have fun riding over the next 6 or 7 days!

[1soulrider]

Originally Posted by Zip

The Highline is looking more like a trail bike. I wonder if a lighter version of this could eventually eliminate the EFX from the Turner line up??

I doubt it.
Over four pounds of frame weight difference between the two, to get anywhere near the wieght of an RFX the Highline would not be the same bike.
There may be some minor overlap, but there are different intended uses for these two bikes to say the least.

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Originally Posted by 1soulrider

I doubt it.
Over four pounds of frame weight difference between the two, to get anywhere near the wieght of an RFX the Highline would not be the same bike.
There may be some minor overlap, but there are different intended uses for these two bikes to say the least.

Yup. Seeing pix of guys like Ebxtreme flying 40 feet above the ground serves to remind me that I definitely do not need a Highline.

[tscheezy]

Originally Posted by Acadian

Thanks Phillip

We also rode the IH Sunday, but I totally spaced taking pics of it. That thing was so buttery it was like being sautéed in roux.

[rroeder]

The Knolly with that slack ST was fugly IMO, where is this pic of ebxtreme flying 40ft off the ground???

The Covert is a nice ride

[ebxtreme]

Originally Posted by rroeder

The Knolly with that slack ST was fugly IMO, where is this pic of ebxtreme flying 40ft off the ground???

Yeah, I wanna see that one too! Can someone please photochop a pic of me 40 feet off the ground? Kinda like huckin' kitty meets Bender? Squeak, you're too kind, but I got a mortgage, wife, dogs and other shite that keeps my tires no more than 15 feet off the ground!

In all seriousness, I think your point is valid though that folks pining for a "trail Highline" (1Soulriders' bronze HL is making everyone lust after them) might want to give a quick check as to whether they're pushing their current rig before deciding they need one. I certainly don't see a HL anywhere near as versatile as a RFX and to make it light enough to do the same types of rides, it would need the entirely wrong components on it. Seems like one would be better off just beefing up their components on an RFX in that case.

Cheers,
EB

P.S. RR, I've only seen an endorphin frame in person, but I didn't find it ugly at all. To each their own though.

[The Squeaky Wheel]

Originally Posted by ebxtreme

Yeah, I wanna see that one too! Can someone please photochop a pic of me 40 feet off the ground? Kinda like huckin' kitty meets Bender? Squeak, you're too kind, but I got a mortgage, wife, dogs and other shite that keeps my tires no more than 15 feet off the ground!

In all seriousness, I think your point is valid though that folks pining for a "trail Highline" (1Soulriders' bronze HL is making everyone lust after them) might want to give a quick check as to whether they're pushing their current rig before deciding they need one. I certainly don't see a HL anywhere near as versatile as a RFX and to make it light enough to do the same types of rides, it would need the entirely wrong components on it. Seems like one would be better off just beefing up their components on an RFX in that case.

Cheers,
EB

P.S. RR, I've only seen an endorphin frame in person, but I didn't find it ugly at all. To each their own though.

I thought you'd like my hyperbole, but 15 feet in my world is still huge.
I was thinking mostly of that big gap jump pic. Maybe not 40', but still a huge pucker factor.
Ditto for the recent pic of Flying Shaheeb

Highline as trailbike makes no sense to me unless the trail has some pretty good drops, but to each his own.

[jncarpenter]

Originally Posted by rroeder

The Knolly with that slack ST was fugly IMO...

...agreed. Nice bike undoubtedly, but fugly none-the-less

[rroeder]

Eb- I saw a pic of a smaller one and it didn't appear to have such a slack ST and was more visually appealing(to me), maybe the ST angle is less severe on the smaller sizes due to the shorter TT? The larger size cheeze is riding with the extended post looks kinda wrong, the Knollys are sweet bikes tho, a buddy has a DelT and he really likes it, he trail rides that sucker at 42lbs, no thanks!

[Bikerbob.com]

Great stills, as usual. Now to step it up a notch, how about some action shots, preferably women riding cool bikes?
If you see a mango colored Motolite or Surf blue Racer X, shoot it.

[Bikezilla]

Wow, looks like Turner is one of the last holdouts on keeping simple clean lines in design. I'm looking forward to reading the reviews on all the bikes ts and crew rode... for all this compex linkages, I sure hope the ride justifies it.

I'm all for new tech but some of the implementations but here seems to have a lot of rather kludgey workarounds to accommodate the complex linkage. Did I see a chainstay mounted Fder on the Tomac? how does that work?




So Zoke is taking a run at the Maxle finally... anyone tried it yet?

The Knolly looks BEEFY. It's good to see the Fder mount is part of the BB junction even with the ST moved forward.
The Socom looks burly as heck too.

I like how Titus did the linkage and seatstay on the EG... very nice!

I dig the color on the Felt and I like how they shifted the ST to handle more travel w/o a longer rear.

I've never been a fan of anything hanging under the BB. Not cables not linkage. I've beaten the fashizzle of my bb on rocks in the past, I think it could be a problem to run gear underneath it.

The flex discussion was amusing... in a let's-pretend-it-doesn't-really-matter sort of way.

I dig the CK 1.5 headset. Guess now it's officially a standard (lol)
I also like how Shimano went to olive connectors on both ends of their brake lines. No more banjos, cut and run.

I'll have to avert my eyes from the Sultan and now esp the Highline lest set my credit card on fire.... Call me a fanboy but DT sure knows how to get the job done w/o a lot of complexity.

On with the reviews!!!

[celluloid hero]

I think the only two bikes out of the group that are truly hideous are the Marin and the Bionicon. The bb area on the Tomac sure is a mess though. It looks like someone just kept welding more and more metal into the area because it kept breaking.

Dead sexiest looks have to go to the Knolly E and the Pivot M5.

Can't wait for your reviews TS. You definitely made my week with the pictures. Thanks.

[Marshall Willanholly]

For me, the Lenz earns the U-G-L-Y award, and the way the lower pivot bolts screw directly into the frame kinda gives me the willies. Also, not being able to run a shock with a resi is a big disadvantage in my book.



I like the lines of the El Guapo, but what's with routing the cables on the side of the top tube?

[airwreck]

looks like you hit a parked car or seriously cased that chumba.