Haro Mary!

[shiggy]

This is the SS Version but there is a gearie-only version, too. Both have a dropout that can take a derailleur hanger.

SSMike with his personal ride
IMG_4015.jpg

IMG_4016.jpg

[OneGearGuy]

Holy Crapsicles!
This is going to be one heck of a year for us and 29ers!

Guess you need to run a Mary bar on this one, eh?

OGG

[shiggy]

Down tube gusset
IMG_4017.jpg

The stays are flattened and the dimple will not be in the production bikes
IMG_4018.jpg

[shiggy]

The singlespeed Mary will be speced with the Mary bar
IMG_4019.jpg

The gearie version will have funky straight bars.

The TT decal
maryss.jpg

SS version = EBB and the metallic "Ginger" paint.

Gearie = regular BB and a metallic "Humbolt" medium dark green.

Both will be sold as complete bikes with the RS Tora fork.

[Cloxxki]

It's happened. On-One goes OEM!
Watch out, Uncle Tom!

[JJT]

Rrrrrrr, that looks very Crispy, thanks for sharing!

JJ

[Enoch]

I bet they won't be able to make them fast enough. Haro may not seem like a high end bike, but every one that I ever rode had excellant geometry, handled great, and rode like a dream.

[Guitar Ted]

Finally! (WHEW!) I've been sitting on this info for months now! Glad to see the "cat" is finally outta the bag now! Time to rejoice all you lovers of steel, geared only hardtails!

This is what Trek should have done instaed of that............whatever!

Haro better get ready to have it's doors knocked down! Only one nit so far....... Why does the gearie version have to be a shade of green? Is this the official color of 29"ers, or what?

Anyway, cheers to Haro! Glad to see this come to the light of day! (Thanks martini for torturing me with the super secret info months ago! )

[endure26]

Wow...world domination can't be far behind. It's gonna be a real interesting year. I'm especially looking forward to the point at which Fox and Manitou finally cave in and make forks.

[Nat]

Cool! It doesn't have Haro's characteristic bent top tube (thankfully).

[1-track-mind]

Couldn't have picked a better manufacurer to come on board to fill the inexpensive,geared, steel void in the 29er market.
Any idea on the release date and weight ?

[centerridgerider]

I have to give Haro a pat on the back for the ballsy move. And the bike is beautiful..... good stuff..

[Spokey-Doke]

Geared and SS specific steel frames . Nice. I bought my custom bikes one year too early!

Oh well. I have four 29ers at this point. I don't think my wife will notice ONE more.

Hmmmm, Salsa or Haro . . .

[MMcG]

Will there be a frame only option from Haro as well?

Must search for local Haro Dealers now.

[toddre]

Originally Posted by MMcG

Will there be a frame only option from Haro as well?

Must search for local Haro Dealers now.

If you find one...let me know... How do I get one?

Does anyone have any idea of how much?

[Law]

Originally Posted by toddre

If you find one...let me know... How do I get one?

Does anyone have any idea of how much?

I hope it is cheap. I think I may be able to talk the wife into letting me get a cheap single this summer if I can find some way to make a couple of bucks. Looks good. Price I am guessing is around 799 to 849 if I were to guess. I haven't been on a Haro since my 1992 Haro Extreme elevated chainstay bike.

I am thinkin' hard about the Redline too.

[Cloxxki]

Bike shown seems to be a personal ride around a sample frame. The mentioned $500 price might well work with more typical complete-bike parts. Like the Redline.

[Endomaniac]

Any idea on balpark cost? Looks like some competition for the GF Rig.

[MMcG]

I'm jonesin to see the green gearie photos. Bring em on Shiggy!

[ParkerFly]

29er friendly shop and he said he knows the designer and the MSRP was going to be around $1000. Also, it's supposed to be Reynolds 853. All I know.

[MMcG]

Originally Posted by ParkerFly

29er friendly shop and he said he knows the designer and the MSRP was going to be around $1000. Also, it's supposed to be Reynolds 853. All I know.

$1K for the complete bike right?

[F5000sl]

Good deal, more choices = cheaper costs for us, plus hopefully increased selections of 29r gear!

[1-track-mind]

Originally Posted by ParkerFly

29er friendly shop and he said he knows the designer and the MSRP was going to be around $1000. Also, it's supposed to be Reynolds 853. All I know.

Is that for SS or geared ?

[shiggy]

Green Mary
IMG_4028.jpg
IMG_4029.jpg

IIRC complete bike price will be roughly $1100 (geared) & $900 (singlespeed).

[shiggy]

Another angle
IMG_4030.jpg

[SS4life]

SWEET ride Does anyone know how the SS version is tensioned? EBB? Horizontals?

[Enoch]

That Green is sweet"

[JoelM]

Thank goodness!!! I work at a shop that carries Haro. I will finally be able to sell people what I think they should really be riding... 29er's.

"I want to buy a bike that's good for the road and trails."
"Umm, tough. We've got hybrids..."

NO MORE!!! I can't wait to get some in the shop

[shiggy]

Stated in my 3rd post: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...38#post1741638

[Pigtire]

Yes!!! Now my choices are getting better for a geared specific frame. Thanks for the pics, Shig!

[discodave]

Any idea when these will be available?

[bigwheelboy_490]

Any one else have problems with the pics loading?

[evilbike]

Cool! Good job Haro!

[bhc]

4130???

If you look closely at one of the pics in #24, you see 130 showing with another number unable to see clearly, just wondering as someone previously stated they would be reynolds 853
I guess we will just have to wait to see what comes out of production.

[ssmike]

Thanks for the good words. The frame material will be a 4130 butted tubeset that has very similar specifications and wall thicknesses to Reynolds 631 tubing, but won't be a "name brand" tube set. We got these frames in just a week ago and we went into a frenzy to build them in time for Sea Otter so we can race on them. So questions like "how much does it weigh?", I don't have the answer to yet. Suffice it to say, it is much lighter than our previous 26" wheel frame.

The target retail prices are no more than $1000 for the single speed (with On-One Mary bars) and a bout $1300 for the geared bike. Both with a Tora fork at that price. If I can get a good rigid fork going for the single speed, it may have that and, therefore, lower the retail.

For now, we are having a damn fun time riding them.

[mvi]

Wow! 1300$ for a bike with an XTR crankset!!
Just kidding. When are the bikes available?

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by mvi

Wow! 1300$ for a bike with an XTR crankset!!
Just kidding. When are the bikes available?

Yeah, wouldn't that be nice! They should be available after August.

[1-track-mind]

A 21" frame offering and Reba.

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by 1-track-mind

A 21" frame offering and Reba.

I'm 6'3" and have a seat height of 33 1/2" and, well, I made the 20" to fit me perfectly. The seat post sizes are 31.6 and with a 400mm post will fit guys up and over 6'5" pretty easily. T/T is near 25" on the 20". Frame onlys would be frame only so you can do the fork of your choice.

Head angle is 72deg with an 80mm fork or that rigid fork.

[totally_fixxated]

Originally Posted by bigwheelboy_490

Any one else have problems with the pics loading?

Yep! I have not had a picture load since they updated the site. Time for DSL, no more
dial-up for me.

[rockhound]

I'd like to see a rigid fork. (and another run of the Haro Werx SS, I can't find on anywhere!)

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by rockhound

I'd like to see a rigid fork. (and another run of the Haro Werx SS, I can't find on anywhere!)

We are working on a rigid fork for the ss model. Until we get one done that is "right," a Tora is in it's place.

Are you looking for a Werx SS frame which had 26" wheels? Sorry, not going to happen with tiny wheels.

[Law]

Originally Posted by ssmike

Thanks for the good words. The frame material will be a 4130 butted tubeset that has very similar specifications and wall thicknesses to Reynolds 631 tubing, but won't be a "name brand" tube set. We got these frames in just a week ago and we went into a frenzy to build them in time for Sea Otter so we can race on them. So questions like "how much does it weigh?", I don't have the answer to yet. Suffice it to say, it is much lighter than our previous 26" wheel frame.

The target retail prices are no more than $1000 for the single speed (with On-One Mary bars) and a bout $1300 for the geared bike. Both with a Tora fork at that price. If I can get a good rigid fork going for the single speed, it may have that and, therefore, lower the retail.

For now, we are having a damn fun time riding them.

$1000 seems kind of steep for that bike with a Tora. The Fisher Cobia has that fork and gears for a retail of $989. I know the Rig retail for $1199 with the Reba. But I would rather see this bike with the Reba or a rigid fork, no tora. With Shiggy's first pics I assumed it was coming with a rigid fork. I hope you will have a rigid option if it is possible.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by Law

$1000 seems kind of steep for that bike with a Tora. The Fisher Cobia has that fork and gears for a retail of $989. I know the Rig retail for $1199 with the Reba. But I would rather see this bike with the Reba or a rigid fork, no tora. With Shiggy's first pics I assumed it was coming with a rigid fork. I hope you will have a rigid option if it is possible.

Depends on the rest of the spec. You can not look at just the frame and fork alone.

[1-track-mind]

Originally Posted by Law

$1000 seems kind of steep for that bike with a Tora.

My sentiments exactly. $1300 for Tora with gears, I think not.

[ParkerFly]

Originally Posted by 1-track-mind

My sentiments exactly. $1300 for Tora with gears, I think not.

not made out of the same material as my coke can. I like steel, though I may still go with a monkey 1x9 for my gearie.

[rockhound]

Cool. Now I need to start saving some money.

Yeah, I am still looking for a "small wheel" Werx SS. There aren't many disc-specific steel 26" singlespeeds with EBB. I like to have the option of running 700c/disc wheels for the street and mtb wheels. I know, I can do the same with a 29er now...

Now, hopefully there will be a lot of these Haros produced as framesets and for a decent price.

[Law]

Originally Posted by shiggy

Depends on the rest of the spec. You can not look at just the frame and fork alone.

...unless that is what i really care about. I have lots of parts laying around to upgrade this and that. I get your point though.

[mtnpat]

Originally Posted by totally_fixxated

Yep! I have not had a picture load since they updated the site. Time for DSL, no more dial-up for me.

Are you sure you are logged in?

You won't see any pics if not, dial or broadband.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by Law

...unless that is what i really care about. I have lots of parts laying around to upgrade this and that. I get your point though.

The frame is certainly worthy of a $1300 bike. Granted, the Tora is a lower spec, at least the '06 model. With an August release these are likely to have '07 components.

[ssmike]

seeing that Brant is viewing, I gotta say that the Mary bars are spot on. I loved the feel, position and especially the handling of the bike with your bars. Good job! I'm super excited about using them on our bike. Thanks!

[1 Speed]

Some really nice work with the flattened chainstay's and the frame in general. I love the Green especially. For me, I'd love to see a rigid instead ofa shock at any price point. Just don't use shocks anymore. Pace, On-One now Salsa, etc. So many good rigid forks that you might be able to OEM.

In any case, my wife has admitted that it's about time we got me a new bike so I'm shoppin'! Can you get them in Europe (Germany) or anywhere in the EU?

Again, great to see it in steel and that Haro is hanging it out there for the 29'ers.

[mtnsofsheep]

[SpinWheelz]

The green frame is absolutely brilliant. Shame about the Tora fork, though. And if I understand correctly, shame that green frame is a geared-only frame (perhaps I misread).

Are these being sold as complete bikes only, or are frame-only options available?

[rockhound]

I think it was already stated that there will be two complete bikes (one SS, on geared) and two frames available (one SS, one geared)...right?

$500 for just the frame? I'd like to see it a bit cheaper...

[mtnsofsheep]

I saw 3 of the new 29'ers out on the trail late Wednesday and they rock.

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by SpinWheelz

The green frame is absolutely brilliant. Shame about the Tora fork, though. And if I understand correctly, shame that green frame is a geared-only frame (perhaps I misread).

Are these being sold as complete bikes only, or are frame-only options available?

Well, I've heard enough feedback here and from some other folks about the forks that we'll make some changes. The single speed will be rigid and the geared bike will be with a Reba.

Yes, the geared bike will be the green color and the ss frame will be the ginger color and frames will be available as well as completes. It's looking like both frames will be about $400 with a rigid fork. We'll likely offer both framesets with rigid forks whereas the complete geared bike will be with a Reba.

It would be easy enough to run the geared bike as a single with an Eno hub.

[rockhound]

Originally Posted by ssmike

Well, I've heard enough feedback here and from some other folks about the forks that we'll make some changes. The single speed will be rigid and the geared bike will be with a Reba.

Yes, the geared bike will be the green color and the ss frame will be the ginger color and frames will be available as well as completes. It's looking like both frames will be about $400 with a rigid fork. We'll likely offer both framesets with rigid forks whereas the complete geared bike will be with a Reba.

It would be easy enough to run the geared bike as a single with an Eno hub.

Sounds perfect! A rigid geared bike with no canti mounts! Woo Hoo!

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by 1 Speed

Some really nice work with the flattened chainstay's and the frame in general. I love the Green especially. For me, I'd love to see a rigid instead ofa shock at any price point. Just don't use shocks anymore. Pace, On-One now Salsa, etc. So many good rigid forks that you might be able to OEM.

In any case, my wife has admitted that it's about time we got me a new bike so I'm shoppin'! Can you get them in Europe (Germany) or anywhere in the EU?

Again, great to see it in steel and that Haro is hanging it out there for the 29'ers.

Thanks. I'm not sure which of our distributors would be carrying these bikes/frames. Right now, our mounain bike distributor in Germany seems to be missing in action (as in we don't currently have one). We're working on it, though. And we'll be at Eurobike as well with a booth.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by ssmike

Well, I've heard enough feedback here and from some other folks about the forks that we'll make some changes. The single speed will be rigid and the geared bike will be with a Reba.

Yes, the geared bike will be the green color and the ss frame will be the ginger color and frames will be available as well as completes. It's looking like both frames will be about $400 with a rigid fork. We'll likely offer both framesets with rigid forks whereas the complete geared bike will be with a Reba.

It would be easy enough to run the geared bike as a single with an Eno hub.

Happy to help with your market research, Mike!

Any hints on the other component spec?

[GlowBoy]

Any geometry details yet? Or more specifically, will there be a "small" with ETT in the 22.5-23" range, or only "Medium" and larger frames?

[Francis Buxton]

I like the looks of that bike/frame/fork a lot. I think $400 f/f is a good pricepoint. I really like the color of the ss frame.

I also like the looks of that WTB single-duty rear hub. Would that hub hold 3-4 cogs out back for a 1x3 or 1x4 setup?

[bhc]

Now that WTB has announced a 2.55 weirwolf for 29ers, what size will fit in back?

[ssmike]

Geometry:
16" - ETT = 23"
18" - ETT = 23.6"
20" - ETT = 24.6"
Actual CS length = 17.6" - I don't like making steep seat angles to get the stays short. I believe seat angles should be proper angles for proper bike fit and then CS length can follow.

There will be clearance for the new 2.55 tire. The boys in Mill Valley were kind enough to give me drawings for the new tire so I could ensure proper clearance. As it stands, there is a bunch of clearance right now for the 2.3 tires.

I'm running a WTB single speed hub and think that there is space for at least 3 cogs, maybe 4. The right dropout on the frame is replaceable so it is possible to run a derailleur on the ss frame with a full cable run zip-tied to the frame.

Components:
geared bike will be a mix of Truvativ cranks, Sram X7 shifters w/ X9 r/d, WTB rims and tires, Shimano 6-bolt rotor hubs, Avid 5 cable discs and the Reba.

SS bike will be the same WTB rims and tires, brakes, a single-speed cassette hub from Taiwan, and Avid 5 cable disc brakes.

[1-track-mind]

Originally Posted by ssmike

Well, I've heard enough feedback here and from some other folks about the forks that we'll make some changes. The single speed will be rigid and the geared bike will be with a Reba.

Yes, the geared bike will be the green color and the ss frame will be the ginger color and frames will be available as well as completes. It's looking like both frames will be about $400 with a rigid fork. We'll likely offer both framesets with rigid forks whereas the complete geared bike will be with a Reba.

It would be easy enough to run the geared bike as a single with an Eno hub.

Good move ! I think you will be glad you upgraded to Reba.
The biggest problem now is waiting till August.

[~martini~]

I"d stay away from that there hub Todd. Brad blew his up in the middle(with around 100 miles opn it) of Council Bluffs last weekend. Had a fun walk out while Pete and I rode the rest of the trail. GREAT fun. Berryman sucked. Way blown out from the last rain.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by ~martini~

I"d stay away from that there hub Todd. Brad blew his up in the middle(with around 100 miles opn it) of Council Bluffs last weekend. Had a fun walk out while Pete and I rode the rest of the trail. GREAT fun. Berryman sucked. Way blown out from the last rain.

The only spare parts I saw in the WTB Sea Otter booth were several dozen FH mechs for the LaserLite hubs (and a small pile of old parts they replaced).

[rensho]

Wow, $400 f/f. How awesome is that? Way to go Mike.

At this point, it is tough to wait till Aug.

[MMcG]

Holy crap - I like the tt lengths.........these are going to be hot sellers.

Great job Haro!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by rensho

Wow, $400 f/f. How awesome is that? Way to go Mike.

At this point, it is tough to wait till Aug.

Projected delivery date reminder:

Originally Posted by ssmike

They should be available after August.

[GlowBoy]

Originally Posted by ssmike

Geometry:
16" - ETT = 23"

Nice!

Originally Posted by ssmike

Actual CS length = 17.6" - I don't like making steep seat angles to get the stays short. I believe seat angles should be proper angles for proper bike fit and then CS length can follow.

Thanks for that. I think the steep seat angles found on some small 29"ers force too many people to run setback seatposts, creating a longer cockpit than the published ETT would imply and causing fit issues for us short guys. 23" ETT with a reasonable STA works for me. Cool!

And although my personal interest is in the singlespeed model, thanks for bringing a sorely needed steel gearie to the market.

[brant]

Originally Posted by ssmike

There will be clearance for the new 2.55 tire. The boys in Mill Valley were kind enough to give me drawings for the new tire so I could ensure proper clearance.

You couldn't pass that drawing over could you?

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by brant@on-one.co.uk

You couldn't pass that drawing over could you?

In the interest of fat tires - check your e-mail.

[NoWay Ray]

Any ideas about the stem length used with that Mary bar? It looks kinda long in the pic, may just be an illusion of sorts though.

I'm facing a tough decision now, of which new bike to get...and it ain't getting easier.

[shiggy]

Mary bars are designed to use the same stem length as a "normal" straight bar.

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by NoWay Ray

Any ideas about the stem length used with that Mary bar? It looks kinda long in the pic, may just be an illusion of sorts though.

I'm facing a tough decision now, of which new bike to get...and it ain't getting easier.

90, 100 and 110 on the 16", 18" and 20" in that order. The stem I'm using is a 130, which is what I use for all flat, riser, Mary or Jones bars, but that's because I'm sometimes referred to as a giant.

[Law]

Originally Posted by ssmike

90, 100 and 110 on the 16", 18" and 20" in that order. The stem I'm using is a 130, which is what I use for all flat, riser, Mary or Jones bars, but that's because I'm sometimes referred to as a giant.

I am very excited about the rigid SS version. Thanks again. It is looking more like exactly what I am looking for! Steel, rigid, fairly inexpensive, and a complete bike.

[brant]

Originally Posted by ssmike

In the interest of fat tires - check your e-mail.

yeah! it fits!

[Rumpfy]

It also did quite well on race day at the Sea Otter, eh Mike?

Bested a large majority of the SS class.

[Francis Buxton]

Originally Posted by ~martini~

I"d stay away from that there hub Todd. Brad blew his up in the middle(with around 100 miles opn it) of Council Bluffs last weekend. Had a fun walk out while Pete and I rode the rest of the trail. GREAT fun. Berryman sucked. Way blown out from the last rain.

Damn, that sucks. I was on the Rig this weekend for a very similar reason - the LDLite hub on my Lobster is blown out. WTB is getting me hooked up with a new freehub body for a reasonable price, so it should be back in action pretty soon. I was really hoping that the SS hub would be a little stouter than the LDLite. Maybe I should just go ahead and get Hope or Profile hubs.

Good to meet you this weekend. Try not to post too many of those pics of me walking all the hills. I'm embarassingly out of shape, and it shows (in more ways than one). My mechanized trailbuilding skills are getting much better though.

Too bad to hear that about the Berryman, but that was the opinion that we had been getting for a while. We've actually moved our annual Bonktoberfest trip to Syllamo from Berryman for that reason (Syllamo is only an additional 30-60 minute drive).

[ihatemybike]

Originally Posted by rockhound

Sounds perfect! A rigid geared bike with no canti mounts! Woo Hoo!

Both those bikes need removeable canti mounts.

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by ihatemybike

Both those bikes need removeable canti mounts.

Not putting them on in the first place means you do not have to remove them later!

[1 Speed]

Originally Posted by Francis Buxton

Damn, that sucks. I was on the Rig this weekend for a very similar reason - the LDLite hub on my Lobster is blown out.

Good to meet you this weekend. Try not to post too many of those pics of me walking all the hills. I'm embarassingly out of shape, and it shows (in more ways than one). My mechanized trailbuilding skills are getting much better though.

I was going to say something about Toddly riding a bike but then I saw the rest of the post. Ha! Um, Todd... you have a Rig now? I'm missing something here.

[UpSideDownBiker]

Why "Mary"??

Can you make it in pink? I hear pink is the new gold!

[downhilljill]

Originally Posted by UpSideDownBiker

Why "Mary"??

Can you make it in pink? I hear pink is the new gold!

I'll answer your question with a question...what CCR song did the lyrics "Big Wheels Keep on Turning" come from? If you know the answer, you'll know why it's called Mary.

[Francis Buxton]

Originally Posted by 1 Speed

I was going to say something about Toddly riding a bike but then I saw the rest of the post. Ha! Um, Todd... you have a Rig now? I'm missing something here.

You didn't hear about that? Jeez, where you been, out of the county?

When they did the Zeke raffle at RIM, the Trek Store donated a Rig, which happened to be the very last thing raffled off at the end of the night....and guess whose big fat ass won it.....so now I have a rigid steel gearie and a suspended aluminum SS (how'd I get that backwards?). I haven't ridden it much, b/c I've been spending a little too much time down at LOSP, but once I finish that, I'll be able to get back on the bike more regularly.

I keep thinking about selling the frame and having Rob build me a cruiser frame but I just can't make up my mind.

[UpSideDownBiker]

That's cool that CCR gave the rights away to use their song lyrics for a bike.

What is the weight limit on one of those bikes?

[fsp]

Jill, correct me if I'm wrong, but in your quote from the song, you guys were actually referring to what the music elite know to be the definitive recording of Proud Mary, which was of course recorded by Leonard Nimoy. Right? Your pointing out that, CCR may also have done it, was purely for the benefit of those less musically literate.

A nod to a trademarked (ach! copyrighted I mean. good call, Law.) work, specifically, a 5 word quote from a song (especially one this commonly used) is entirely within the law. Reprinting the entire lyric sheet on the frame & selling the bike as a way to get the lyrics would not be. Big difference. Anyway, CCR the band lost the rights to almost all of their works long ago to a bunch of sharky lawyers. If it were infringement, those clowns would be the first to have it coming.

[Law]

Originally Posted by fsp

Jill, correct me if I'm wrong, but in your quote from the song, you guys were actually referring to what the music elite know to be the definitive recording of Proud Mary, which was of course recorded by Leonard Nimoy. Right? Your pointing out that, CCR may also have done it, was purely for the benefit of those less musically literate.

A nod to a trademarked work, specifically, a 5 word quote from a song (especially one this commonly used) is entirely within the law. Reprinting the entire lyric sheet on the frame & selling the bike as a way to get the lyrics would not be. Big difference. Anyway, CCR the band lost the rights to almost all of their works long ago to a bunch of sharky lawyers. If it were infringement, those clowns would be the first to have it coming.

It woul be copyright, not trademark that would be a concern when quoting from that song. But I agree, no infringement, and even if there was, it would be a fair use---no liability.

It has always been ok to create new works that were "inspired" by previous ones. But you can't copyright just a name anyway.

I am not up on trademark law, but I would seriously wonder in a common name like Mary could be trademarked. Maybe so if the trademark's scope is narrowed or something.

Whatever, I am going to get back to studying here in, of all places, a law library.

[Beckman4]

Originally Posted by Law

$1000 seems kind of steep for that bike with a Tora. The Fisher Cobia has that fork and gears for a retail of $989. I know the Rig retail for $1199 with the Reba. But I would rather see this bike with the Reba or a rigid fork, no tora. With Shiggy's first pics I assumed it was coming with a rigid fork. I hope you will have a rigid option if it is possible.

The Tora is just a Reba with beefier steel upper tubes. Otherwise it's the same fork. So unless the 1/2 lb of weight is what's turning you off, there's no reason to think of the Tora as "low-grade"

[Durga]

Anyone know what grips are on the SS?

[downhilljill]

Originally Posted by Law

It woul be copyright, not trademark that would be a concern when quoting from that song. But I agree, no infringement, and even if there was, it would be a fair use---no liability.

It has always been ok to create new works that were "inspired" by previous ones. But you can't copyright just a name anyway.

I am not up on trademark law, but I would seriously wonder in a common name like Mary could be trademarked. Maybe so if the trademark's scope is narrowed or something.

Whatever, I am going to get back to studying here in, of all places, a law library.

And you all are very correct...the "Big Wheels Keep On Turning" graphics are not going to be on production bikes just for that reason. The costs involved in either purchasing rights or fighting it in court if we didn't purchase the rights would far outweigh the benefits of having those 5 little words on the TT. The 3 bikes that were at Sea Otter were prototype samples.

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by Durga

Anyone know what grips are on the SS?

The grips in the photo? They are a new WTB locking grip called the 4-front clamp-on grip.

[lushmd]

Just curious, what kind of steel will be used (sorry if this has already been asked/answered)?

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by lushmd

Just curious, what kind of steel will be used (sorry if this has already been asked/answered)?

4130

Look for "ssmike" posts for details

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by lushmd

Just curious, what kind of steel will be used (sorry if this has already been asked/answered)?

It's a 4130 butted tubeset that has very close specifications to Reynolds 631 tubing.

[NoWay Ray]

Originally Posted by ssmike

90, 100 and 110 on the 16", 18" and 20" in that order. The stem I'm using is a 130, which is what I use for all flat, riser, Mary or Jones bars, but that's because I'm sometimes referred to as a giant.

Thanks Mike. I'm 6'4 myself, the specs sound exactly like what I've been looking for frame size wise. Now, just the long wait, and trying to get one in Australia...DO you know someone in the local distrubition company I could hasle???

[Quasi]

Originally Posted by Law

It woul be copyright, not trademark that would be a concern when quoting from that song. But I agree, no infringement, and even if there was, it would be a fair use---no liability.

I am not an IP expert, but I would say that it is a simple phrase in the English language that it describes what happens if big wheels start moving. It is not unique enough to be copywritable, at least not in general.

I am sure with a little research, you could find that phrase has been used before the songwriter used it. The songwriter merely made it more popular than previously. But I wouldn't go saying it's a "quote" from the song, now you are getting in trouble.

It is perfectly usable commercially. I think if you like the phrase you should use it and stand up for your free speech rights. There are too many weenies out there who back down when faced with companies that threaten law suits, especially in the IP area. Makes me want to become a black hat IP lawyer, but I don't qualify to take the patent bar....

[ssmike]

Originally Posted by NoWay Ray

Thanks Mike. I'm 6'4 myself, the specs sound exactly like what I've been looking for frame size wise. Now, just the long wait, and trying to get one in Australia...DO you know someone in the local distrubition company I could hasle???

Pacific Brands (previously known as Repco) in Melbourne has been the Haro distributor for as long as I can remember, or have been at Haro (going on my 14th year).

[UpSideDownBiker]

How much will one of those bad boys (girls) weigh in at? I've always been looking for a girl named Mary.