First pics of the 25th anniversary Salsa!

[shiggy]

At 9:00 this morning
IMG_3998.jpg

Jason would show me only this much
IMG_3999.jpg

[endure26]

I see no frame.

I see a multi-colored clothe draped over a big box of Krispy Kreme donuts (from which those guys have obviously been helping themselves) and a small shot of a tire and rim.

[ozlongboarder]

Squinting my eyes, I swear that reads 26x2.1 on the tire......

edit... I need a new monitor.

[tamjam]

Originally Posted by shiggy

At 9:00 this morning
Jason would show me only this much

Tease! That's not fair...I almost didn't click out of fear I'd like it TOO much, and all I see is somethin' wrapped in a flag!

[shiggy]

I am trying to upload pics but the connection in the hotel is SLOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOW!

[shiggy]

The Salsa El Mariachi
IMG_4008.jpg

True Temper OX steel frame, fork and stem, EBB SS 29er.

I need to leave for dinner, more pics later.

[wooglin]

Is that actual sunshine I see? At Sea Otter?

Oh yeah, bed time here. Guess I'll have to wait for tomorrow to see the bike.

Edit: Nope, guess I won't. Pretty sweet looking. Nice pin stripes.

[AteMrYeats]

Oh boy, they've done it this time. That thing is beautiful. Bravo Salsa!

[Law]

Wow! credit card must stay in wallet..... I have no job....no more student loans until September.....I like. I am hoping for the regular version to be for less than $800 for a frameset, is that too much to ask for?

By the way, which OX tubing is it? Platinum?

[Allroy]

that is sweet, hopefully it has a 12.5" bb and a sub 70 trail.

[Padre]

Nice work Salsa. Nice work.

[FoShizzle]

OMG.....I absolutely love that bike. I cannot keep from looking at it over, and over, ...... I am SO BUMMED I could not make it to mud Otter

[Carzuk]

more more more!

[shiggy]

Non-drive side
IMG_4011.jpg

Drive side
IMG_4012.jpg

The show bike has a nice build of Salsa and White Industries parts.

[Guitar Ted]

A steel 29"er in the same vein as the Dos Niner with the lowered top tube, brace and all. I'm a bit surprised at that actually. A fine looking steed, none the less, that would only be more appealing with polished rims, in my opinion. That would be more in keeping with the rest of the componentry and would be a fine nod to the past.

Now, where can I find some skinwall 29"er tires!

[shiggy]

Stem
IMG_4009.jpg

Fork
IMG_4010.jpg

Frame graphics
IMG_4013.jpg
IMG_4014.jpg

None of these pics do the finish justice. The brown is a rich reddish metallic.

[Konapdlr]

Great...I am gonna be broke forever! That is nice!

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by wooglin

Is that actual sunshine I see? At Sea Otter?

Yes it is! It was clear (mostly) and sunny today but still mucky. Lots of stuck tractors and ruck on-site. The rain may be returning tomorrow

[OneGearGuy]

Damn.

"Clean-up on aisle nine, please!"

Thanks for getting these to us, shig!

OGG

[cocheese]

Nice! I especially like the lowered top tube and the sparkle brown on white paint. It does look like 06 is going to good for niners!

Thanks for the pics Shiggy.

[Nonracerrichie]

In the word of Roger Daltry. "I want it, I want it, I want it....you can't have it! Magic bus, Magic bus, can I ride your magic bus?"

[shiggy]

BTW this is a limited edition of 100 with this finish and stem. The later production frame and fork will be painted differently and not include the stem - at a much reduced cost (Jason will need to address the price questions).

[JJT]

Wow, that is a great bike. I have to get used to the brace, but on the other hand that's what makes the bike stand out. I love the color (may I call it rootbeer, my favourite bike color ) and the matching stem.

Incredible fine bike!

Somebody placed an order already?

JJ

[endure26]

Are they selling the limited edition version as a frameset or as complete bike?

Do you know what the frame tubing is - looked like a True Temper sticker?

How about the fork - Salsa or someone else's?

[Nat]

I am really liking that paint scheme and graphics.

How was dinner? Did you get enough to eat? Dessert? Lemon twist for your cappucino?

[centerridgerider]

Ok I'm going to go ahead and say I want one.... it is beautiful. I hope the full production model (that comes with derailleur hanger) is decently inexpensive and comes in a beautiful Hot Tamale Red...
Sweet news that they will be selling the rigid fork also... Good stuff. I doubt it will be priced directly by the karate Monkey but it would be pretty nice for a few hundred more... I could definitly see myself parting from my rig in a second the moment this baby becomes available....
Mad props to salsa for a super sweet 25th birthday bike....

[JAKEtheDOG]

beautiful!

Muy bueno muchachos!

-Jake el' Perro

[Salsa Cycles]

I'm heading out to the event in a few minutes. Here are a few details.

Frame: OX Platinum - Single speed only. It's pure.

Fork: OX Platinum. We are calling the fork CroMoto Grande. It will be available aftermarket in black. Price, haven't set price yet. Price will be in the middle between a KM fork and all those too expensive forks.

Stem: It's our standard CroMoto stem we've made for years.

Price: Limited Edition - 1199 msrp. Available May

We will be producing a production model. We don't have all the details worked out yet. It will be sold at as a frame and fork and have geared options.

I'll share more information on the design next week.

Thanks everyone for the kind comments. This project has been fun and it's nice to hear folks like it.

Jason

[Spokey-Doke]

THAT is what a dedicated steel single speed should look like, IMO. Sweet. Clean lines, no extra crap. If a production frame like this were available a year ago, I wouldn't have needed to go custom. (I do love my WW, though.)

Nice job, Salsa! Good looking bike.

Anybody else think they should continue to offer a single speed only option?

[Axis II]

Not my flavor sans canti bosses and w/ an EBB and no sliding dropouts, but a nice looking bike none-the -less. The burning question in my mind is WHO made it for Salsa? They were using Waterford for their Ala Carte back in the day. I wonder if they went back to them this time around? If so, I hope they got things sorted out w/Waterford. The rumor was they had lots of quality issues w/the Ala Carte. Inquiring minds want to know..........

[iliketoridebikes]

Originally Posted by Allroy

that is sweet, hopefully it has a 12.5" bb and a sub 70 trail.

looks flexy

[Swami Scott]

Very cool, love the paint!

What's with the fender mounts though??

[shiggy]

Originally Posted by iliketoridebikes

looks flexy

Mr. "If you can not say some constructive, speak up!" speaks.

[12snap]

I just checked and there's some more info and geometry charts available at http://www.salsacycles.com/frames_06ElMariachi_LE.html#

[Raymo853]

Originally Posted by Guitar Ted

same vein as the Dos Niner with the lowered top tube, brace and all.

I so wish they would end that dropped top tube design. Looks awful, retards sholdering the bike and gives in to the dumb butts that think you by bikes by standover and not top tube length.

[JMKM]

This frame is made by the same manufacturer that makes all of Salsa and Surly's steel frames. No, it is not U.S. made, but the quality is much better than what Waterford had done.

[Cloxxki]

I wonder why the seat tubes are KM-tall, when the toptubes are going to be lowered so much anyway. Goes away from the retro theme they seemed to look for. Had the XL been a 22" (like the Dos Niner) or even 21", the brace would not have been required with the toptube in the exact same position. would it be to get longer seat stays for some give?

[Axis II]

Originally Posted by JMKM

This frame is made by the same manufacturer that makes all of Salsa and Surly's steel frames. No, it is not U.S. made, but the quality is much better than what Waterford had done.

Whaa??.....A 25th Anniversary Salsa and it's an Asian import? You would think maybe Salsa could suck it up just this once for nostalgia sake and source it from a quality US builder. I'd be willing to fork over the added cost if I knew it wasn't torched together by a 12 year old in god knows where. I'm sorry I gotta call bull**it on this one.

[lanpope]

Originally Posted by 12snap

I just checked and there's some more info and geometry charts available at http://www.salsacycles.com/frames_06ElMariachi_LE.html#

Look at that chainstay length - 17.9" Way to go Salsa! Somebody has been paying attention!

Re: the dropped TT - I am not nuts about it either, but I think it does set their bike apart from most others in the market. Distinction goes a long way.

Nice Job Salsa Crew! I predict a HUGE year for you guys.

LP

[lanpope]

Originally Posted by Axis II

I'd be willing to fork over the added cost if I knew it wasn't torched together by a 12 year old in god knows where. I'm sorry I gotta call bull**it on this one.

So are you saying that you know it was torched by a 12-year old?

All they said is that it was made overseas. I guess only 12-year olds work over there.

You know, there has been a mfg or two that has actually traveled overseas to check out working conditions and environmental standards and placed conditions regarding such things in their mfging contracts. (I'm not saying Salsa has, I have no idea, but it is not unheard of.)

LP

[tamjam]

Originally Posted by Axis II

Whaa??.....A 25th Anniversary Salsa and it's an Asian import? You would think maybe Salsa could suck it up just this once for nostalgia sake and source it from a quality US builder. I'd be willing to fork over the added cost if I knew it wasn't torched together by a 12 year old in god knows where. I'm sorry I gotta call bull**it on this one.

/flame suit on

Please, save me the political mumbo jumbo. The Taiwanese know how to make bikes. They have it down. Made in the USA, be it production or custom, does not guarantee better quality. In terms of small production guys in fact, I'd say quite the opposite. Believe me, I whole-heartedly support small custom builders, I currently own 3 custom frames, and have owned a 4th in the past, but QC can suffer. I had minor issues on 2 of my frames that never would have happened on a production frame.

Outsourcing of production is with us, and always will be, just read Thomas Friedman's book The World is Flat. I'm just thankful that we have such a creative thinker in Salsa to give us this bike, not to mention the other cool stuff they're doing, and forget about where it's built. If this bike had been available 6 months ago, I never would have ordered my Retrotec.

/rant off.

[Timo]

Nice picures ShigaSalsa. Thx for the bike and post.

[steevo]

Originally Posted by Raymo853

I so wish they would end that dropped top tube design. Looks awful, retards sholdering the bike and gives in to the dumb butts that think you by bikes by standover and not top tube length.

ummm...what about the situation where the top tube length fits well, but the standover is too tight? It happens you know.

[Axis II]

Originally Posted by lanpope

So are you saying that you know it was torched by a 12-year old?

All they said is that it was made overseas. I guess only 12-year olds work over there.

You know, there has been a mfg or two that has actually traveled overseas to check out working conditions and environmental standards and placed conditions regarding such things in their mfging contracts. (I'm not saying Salsa has, I have no idea, but it is not unheard of.)

LP

That's right, Salsa sources overseas production so that they can pay workers a living wage and maintain strict controls over the quality of working conditions....Bwahahahha!!!!!

[mgersib]

... that i needed a new singlespeed?

very nice looking frame guys.

[Axis II]

.

Outsourcing of production is with us, and always will be, just read Thomas Friedman's book The World is Flat. I'm just thankful that we have such a creative thinker in Salsa to give us this bike, not to mention the other cool stuff they're doing, and forget about where it's built. If this bike had been available 6 months ago, I never would have ordered my Retrotec.

/rant off.[/quote]

OK, actually I did read Friedman's book and found it's conclusions untenable. Salsa's thinking is creative in much the same way that Walmart's is: relocate production to the lowest common denominator country and reap the profits through importation. Not rocket science and not what I expect for an anniversary edition frameset. If I want to buy Tiawanese I'll go to Walmart. Their prices are much better.

[ncj01]

I love it.

Color, finish, design are gorgeous.

I also love the fork and stem.

I can't find the spec's on the stem...with stems being such a personal thing (length/rise/clamp diameter), I am curious if you specify your stem size, or just get a stock size per frame size.

I had kindof mentally decided to get one, but a few things strike me: 1) I really would prefer to have a gearie option, 2) 1200 bucks is a little stiff - could get a custom Walt (any any number of others) for less.

Will wait with anticipation for the release of the standard-production one..I just hope the color is 1/2 as cool, with little/no red in it, and the $$ sharply lower.

[F5000sl]

I think that paint looks way too nice too ride it off-road.

[lanpope]

Originally Posted by Axis II

.

OK, actually I did read Friedman's book and found it's conclusions untenable. Salsa's thinking is creative in much the same way that Walmart's is: relocate production to the lowest common denominator country and reap the profits through importation. Not rocket science and not what I expect for an anniversary edition frameset. If I want to buy Tiawanese I'll go to Walmart. Their prices are much better.

I'm not going to debate this with you. I understand your point, and I also understand your technique of jumping to the logical conclusion of an argument (re: Walmart) to demonstrate your point in the most inflamatory way possible.

What I am saying is that you are drawing lots of un-educated conclusions. Sure SALSA was likely looking to save money on production, it's called business, but that was likely not the ONLY reason to go over seas. Taiwan has some VERY skilled laborers. Many actually take pride in their work and have a passion for their jobs. They are not all unhappy mindless drones pumping out American crap and sucking down particulate matter.

Unless you (or I for that matter) had anything to do with Salsa's production decisions, all this is just garbley-goop, rant for the sake of rant.

Me - I think it's a hot bike, and I am glad Salsa brought it to market.

LP

[Law]

Originally Posted by Axis II

.

Outsourcing of production is with us, and always will be, just read Thomas Friedman's book The World is Flat. I'm just thankful that we have such a creative thinker in Salsa to give us this bike, not to mention the other cool stuff they're doing, and forget about where it's built. If this bike had been available 6 months ago, I never would have ordered my Retrotec.

/rant off.

OK, actually I did read Friedman's book and found it's conclusions untenable. Salsa's thinking is creative in much the same way that Walmart's is: relocate production to the lowest common denominator country and reap the profits through importation. Not rocket science and not what I expect for an anniversary edition frameset. If I want to buy Tiawanese I'll go to Walmart. Their prices are much better.[/quote]



This subject is played out. The easiest way to make a comment is to not buy a Salsa if you have a problem with where they produce their stuff. It is not like they are hiding the info. The manufacture of frames in asia is not necessarily low-end anymore.

I have a thing with supporting US made stuff as well, but I don't have a problem with buying some overseas made stuff either. I usually just try to get good stuff. If it comes from asia I am just not willing to pay as much for it frankly. I also don't expect as much either. Big deal. If Salsa did not have their stuff produced overseas, there would not be a salsa anymore.

With regard to this particular model from Salsa, there is no way I would spend $1199 for it. A 25th anniversary edition doesn't mean anything to me frankly. I just am interested in the production of a 29er quality steel frame that i don't have to wait 6 months to get. If the price for the frame is similar to the ala carte it would be good. Much more and I will stick to Curtlo for the same money.

Beautiful stuff Salsa! Good job.

[jh_on_the_cape]

nice. I normally think the tribal graphics thing is overdone these days, but then saw that it's chilis, and found it very cool.

for those whove experienced it first hand: is it white, or more of a cream color? either way it looks great and I applaud your efforts. I have to say that I would have like to have seen it sourced from a US builder, but I understand the economic pressures you face.

[surlywhore]

Originally Posted by Axis II

.

Outsourcing of production is with us, and always will be, just read Thomas Friedman's book The World is Flat. I'm just thankful that we have such a creative thinker in Salsa to give us this bike, not to mention the other cool stuff they're doing, and forget about where it's built. If this bike had been available 6 months ago, I never would have ordered my Retrotec.

/rant off.

OK, actually I did read Friedman's book and found it's conclusions untenable. Salsa's thinking is creative in much the same way that Walmart's is: relocate production to the lowest common denominator country and reap the profits through importation. Not rocket science and not what I expect for an anniversary edition frameset. If I want to buy Tiawanese I'll go to Walmart. Their prices are much better.[/quote]


Walmart bikes are mostly made in China, as are most lower end Big boys(Trek, and Giant) Most higher bike are made in Tiawan, beacause the Quality and their ability work work with more Exotic Materials. I'm sure all of you drive Fords and Chevy's too, Yeah that's what I thought.

[Law]

Originally Posted by surlywhore

I'm sure all of you drive Fords and Chevy's too, Yeah that's what I thought.

I didn't know Ford and Chevy were still in business.

I haven't had an american made car since, well my Subaru and Mercedes Benz SUV that we owned prior to selling everything to go to school. Both were made at US factories.

Actually, we have been looking at some American made manufacturers our next family vehicle, but when the quality is worse than the Kia minivan it is hard to go that way. With bikes you can actually get frames that are of better quality than overseas. That is not necessarily true of US manufacturer. Anyway, this has really gotten off topic. How 'bout those 29ers? They sure are great aren't they?

[Spokey-Doke]

Originally Posted by surlywhore

Most higher bike are made in Tiawan, beacause the Quality and their ability work work with more Exotic Materials.

Exactly. And the move to China is the result, because the high quality of Taiwanese frames only makes higher end bikes profitable. We saw the same thing in the early 90s when Japan became too expensive. Where did production move to? Taiwan.

I assembled those Taiwanese bikes back then--lots of them--and they weren't very good. But within a few short years Taiwan started turning out nice frames.

Political issues aside, it isn't about where it's made as much as much as how skilled the laborers are, and how much pride they take in their work. I love America, but sometimes that "pride" part is lacking here.

I look at both my Karate Monkeys and I see good welds, alignment, threads and paint. Both built up very smoothly. It's the tubing that makes Surly frames inexpensive, not the quality, IMO. My $1800 Santa Cruz Blur should have had that quality (the alignment was TERRIBLE), but it did not.

So is it really the quality people take issue with, or something worse? What I want to ask is this:

If a Taiwanese welder worked for, say, Independent Fabrications, would you still buy a frame from them?

[Axis II]

This subject is played out. The easiest way to make a comment is to not buy a Salsa if you have a problem with where they produce their stuff. It is not like they are hiding the info. The manufacture of frames in asia is not necessarily low-end anymore.

I have a thing with supporting US made stuff as well, but I don't have a problem with buying some overseas made stuff either. I usually just try to get good stuff. If it comes from asia I am just not willing to pay as much for it frankly. I also don't expect as much either. Big deal. If Salsa did not have their stuff produced overseas, there would not be a salsa anymore.

With regard to this particular model from Salsa, there is no way I would spend $1199 for it. A 25th anniversary edition doesn't mean anything to me frankly. I just am interested in the production of a 29er quality steel frame that i don't have to wait 6 months to get. If the price for the frame is similar to the ala carte it would be good. Much more and I will stick to Curtlo for the same money.

Beautiful stuff Salsa! Good job.[/quote]

Law, I can appreciate your position on this. You are cogent and concise and if I understand you correctly what you are saying is that: you see the value in domestic based production for your bike fix. At the same time, you will occasionally be ok with Asian products with this caveat: that you realize that it will be a product "not to expect as much" in. This obstensibly ok with you because you don't expect to have to pay as much for it. This is probably where you and I differ. I actually DO expect more in a 25th anniversary edition. That's the whole point in an anniversary edition, right? If they want to source the regular production run from the usual suspect, that's OK. But that's not what we are discussing here. This is an "anniversary edition" in name only. This to me is just more of the same from Salsa. It leaves me wanting.

[GlowBoy]

Nice bike. The production version of the frame will be of interest to me, and I'm anxious to hear about pricing when it's released. Hopefully as with the fork, it will be somewhere between Surly and those "too-expensive others."

Sorry for all the OT outsourcing discussions. Important topic, wrong venue.

[Wish I Were Riding]

Originally Posted by GlowBoy

Nice bike. The production version of the frame will be of interest to me, and I'm anxious to hear about pricing when it's released. Hopefully as with the fork, it will be somewhere between Surly and those "too-expensive others."

Sorry for all the OT outsourcing discussions. Important topic, wrong venue.

I agree with all that too.

[Axis II]

If a Taiwanese welder worked for, say, Independent Fabrications, would you still buy a frame from them?[/quote]

Damn straight I would, IF: that builder paid a decent wage to their workers, had safe work environments, didn't use child labor AND produced a quality product. Let's be clear about why builders shift production overseas: they can slash the labor costs because they don't have to worry about the above. They may still produce a quality product but what's the REAL cost at the end of the day?

[JMKM]

First, I have to say, I can't believe that this type of narrow mindedness still exists in the United States about overseas manufacturing. We (All Americans) could not live the glutonous lifestyle we choose if not for these methods. Yes, you are a glut, so am I, there's no need to debate this here on this forum. I just wanted to clarify a couple of things about Taiwan.

We visit our manufacturers a minimum of 4 times a year to work on new projects, deal with quality issues, build relationships, etc... Taiwan has labor laws, there are no 12 year old kids welding frames was mentioned in above posts. On quality, we work with our manufacturer's to insure that we are sending the best possible product to our customer's. As far as consistency goes, a small American builder may build 50-100 frames a year, our manufacturer's build 300-400 in one production run. Who do you think has more experience cutting and welding tubes? Sure, small American builders spend more time filing and sanding, etc... to get the craftsmanship beauty, but that is part of what makes it a custom craftsman frame and the consumer pays the price.

Now on to Quality of life. There was an essay posted on Bikeforums.net under the framebuilding title about small American builders. You should go check it out. Approximately 75% of all small American builders don't have basic health insurance, most of them make less than 35,000 a year, and most will never retire. You tell me who's living the good life. Now, I can't give figures for Taiwanese workers, but the individuals I have built relationships with and visited have a passion for the Bicycle Industry and life in general that is inspiring at worst. That goes for the owners of some of the suppliers we use, right down to the guy welding forks and frames.

Here's a link to some photos I took in January on our visit. Enjoy.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/jmeiser/

I would love to carry on this conversation, but this is not the place. I'm just excited to finally release this project to the world, and I'm glad that most of you love it.

[gonzostrike]

Originally Posted by iliketoridebikes

looks flexy

your omniscience is incredible! you can tell flex from the looks, without knowing anything but the picture? dang, you are powerful in your mojo. the bike industry should quit using physics, FEA and real world testing, and simply ask you to look at a picture.

[DWF]

Originally Posted by Salsa Cycles

Fork: OX Platinum. We are calling the fork CroMoto Grande. It will be available aftermarket in black. Price, haven't set price yet. Price will be in the middle between a KM fork and all those too expensive forks.
Jason

What does that mean and what "too expensive" forks are you talking about?

[Law]

Originally Posted by Axis II

Law, I can appreciate your position on this. You are cogent and concise and if I understand you correctly what you are saying is that: you see the value in domestic based production for your bike fix. At the same time, you will occasionally be ok with Asian products with this caveat: that you realize that it will be a product "not to expect as much" in. This obstensibly ok with you because you don't expect to have to pay as much for it. This is probably where you and I differ. I actually DO expect more in a 25th anniversary edition. That's the whole point in an anniversary edition, right? If they want to source the regular production run from the usual suspect, that's OK. But that's not what we are discussing here. This is an "anniversary edition" in name only. This to me is just more of the same from Salsa. It leaves me wanting.

I understand you completely. I wouldn't pay $1199 for a fancy paint job either. A made in the USA Salsa would have been sweet I agree, especially for the sentimental value. But still, it is a good product, and it looks great. I just have no use for fancy paint. Fancy tubing, Yes. It does have my favorite steel tubes on it. I am coming from a different angle. To me this Salsa and Ross' Salsa are two totally separate entities. To me this is just a sweet bike with the fancy paint without the ties to the past, especially since it was not made in the same place as that first Salsa batches. Anyway, bring on the basic version pronto with its cheaper price. I feel the same about Salsa, as I do about Niner. Good stuff, and rides well. Usually good stuff for the money.

[GlowBoy]

Seriously guys, this thread is to discuss the introduction of the Salsa El Mariachi. Outsourcing might be tangentially relevant, but a discussion of this length is totally inappropriate here and has completely cluttered up the thread. DWF has started a new thread on this very topic for your enjoyment. Please continue your discussion here:

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=180317

[dyg2001]

Originally Posted by Axis II

If a Taiwanese welder worked for, say, Independent Fabrications, would you still buy a frame from them?

Damn straight I would, IF: that builder paid a decent wage to their workers, had safe work environments, didn't use child labor AND produced a quality product. Let's be clear about why builders shift production overseas: they can slash the labor costs because they don't have to worry about the above. They may still produce a quality product but what's the REAL cost at the end of the day? [/quote]

Are you trying to say that the company in Taiwan that makes Salsa frames doesn't do those things? What is your evidence? I've lived in Taipei, and it is not some slum full of sweatshops with malnourished children chained to their machines.

I'm surprised you are adopting this Buy American stance, and "calling bullsh*t" on Salsa. You did not seem to go out of your way to choose USA-made parts when you were building up your weight-weenie non-root beer WaltWorks.

[endure26]

My comment was meant to poke fun at the fact there wasn't a pic of the frame in Shiggy's initial post. I was not poking fun at those of us NOT endowed with 5% body fat (FYI - I weigh close to 200 pounds). My sincere apologies to anyone I offended with my comment.

[teamdicky]

I didn't think I liked "the look" of the cross brace at first, but the full profile view on the site looks good.

[fsp]

Originally Posted by dyg2001

I'm surprised you are adopting this Buy American stance, and "calling bullsh*t" on Salsa. You did not seem to go out of your way to choose USA-made parts when you were building up your weight-weenie non-root beer WaltWorks.

It seems as though that even this particular tangent has gotten off-track. The relevant point he was making was a good one.

1.) This is a bike representing 25 years of Salsa Cycles
2.) For the first 20 of those 25 years, Salsa was a shop of craftsman, of competent designer/builders, that put out a top quality product, and insisted on making everything possible themselves. They experimented with having thier skewers made overseas, and it was a nightmare. They took a great deal of pride in their products, and they earned every bit of it through blood and sweat.
3.) The present day Salsa has nothing in common with the values that made Salsa a great company in the past. Evidenced by the fact that, well, the new company isn't DOING anything the old one did, and more importantly, by the exit of the company founder.
4.) This 25th anniversary, while having nice stickers, has nothing to do with where the company came from, the bikes that made it famous, nor the people. The fact that Salsa could very well have had these bikes built by the original founder & master builder of their company, but instead shipped them from asia and charged top dollar for them anyway indicates that nothing is sacred, and it's all about the $. What's the difference, you ask? Taiwan builds an ok frame. Well, Salsa happens to have been started by one of, if not THE finest brazers ever to put a fillet down. Ross Shafer is one of only a couple known builders to produce fillet brazed frames requiring no filing or sanding, instead laying down a perfect radius and a pure glassy transition, every time. Like a number of Mozarts symphonies, there are no corrections, just perfect notes. Instead of a tip of the hat to the people whose reputation they bought and rode in on, we have another Taiwanese bike with fancy stickers.

Nevermind the politics of international trade. It's about the heritage of this company, & what appears to be a lack of respect, or even comprehension of it, and a quick cashing in on it instead.

That was really, really harsh, piling all the negatives in one place. It's very cool that Salsa has people that can keep the company profitable & in business, and that they are actually riders, enthusiasts, and willing to take teh risk of engaging the public by being involved & active on something like MTBR. This is VERY unusual, and great to see. They've been doing a great job of providing quality product at an amazing price point, and have found a level of success that ensures they won't be selling you a bike and disappearing off the radar screen in a month. This is really quite a feat in the bike industry. So in the grand scheme of things, this divide between Old Salsa and New Salsa is just something for us, the fans, to get over, cause it's just history now. This is where the most heated negativity comes from though, in case anyone was wondering.

[~gomez~]

blast from the past

[GreenLightGo]

I'd love to get one of these in XL - awesome design.

[GnatBikes]

Originally Posted by GreenLightGo

I'd love to get one of these in XL - awesome design.

GreenLightGo - Wish I could help you find one.

That picture brings back some memories.....like 20 or so pounds. Wow. Thanks for reminding me to stay healthy

Jason
Salsa Crew