What do you guys think?

robpennell · 03-21-2006

Messing around with curved tubes and came up with this about a month back. Havent messed with finishing it and its really just slapped together as fast and cheap as possible. I did a really crappy job to be honest but that wasnt the goal. Just an idea and I really have mixed feelings about it. I will at least finish it and get a few rides in just to see how it feels. So what do you guys think? Keep the idea and build some nicer ones or trash it.

http://www.badgercycles.com/gallery/...ss&id=DSC01890

http://www.badgercycles.com/gallery/...ss&id=DSC01887

Edit: I tried to upload some pics but no cigar. I'm e-tarded. (fixed it. -shiggy)

**shiggy** · 03-21-2006

The look is very cool, Rob. I would love to see a finished bike.

Needs a fork and stem to match.

Bigwheel · 03-21-2006

Cool. The only thing I think you might consider is instead of the straight top tube braces you might try some that also have some radius? In other words I really like the side profile but the top view is not as curvacious? I don't know, but I don't think it is trash, keep the juices flowing!

**shiggy** · 03-21-2006

I think you are right, BW.
mod.jpg

robpennell · 03-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bigwheel

Cool. The only thing I think you might consider is instead of the straight top tube braces you might try some that also have some radius? In other words I really like the side profile but the top view is not as curvacious? I don't know, but I don't think it is trash, keep the juices flowing!

I was thinking the same thing. If I do one "for real" I'd bend the braces and stick them in there facing away from each other but meeting at the top of each arch.

btw Thanks Shiggy with the pic help.

el-cid · 03-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by robpennell

Keep the idea and build some nicer ones or trash it.

You'd be more than welcome to send it to my trash can

. There's obviously a market for bikes out of the norm and that's very unique (in a good way).

Bigwheel · 03-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by robpennell

I was thinking the same thing. If I do one "for real" I'd bend the braces and stick them in there facing away from each other but meeting at the top of each arch.

btw Thanks Shiggy with the pic help.

Even Shiggy's cut and paint I think shows the possibilities? Much more pleasing to the eye and still functional. Good luck and keep us posted.

the_dude · 03-21-2006

heck yeah! that thing is super sweet. i can't wait to see it built up.

the_dude

Guitar Ted · 03-21-2006

What about bottle mounts? I see how one could go on the seat tube. Perhaps something along the lines of a side by side mount on the triple down tube? Perhaps that'd get in the way of pedaling/ riding? Just wondering, as I'm not a camel, and I like mine in a water bottle, thank you very much!

This is definitely not trash! Great idea! I hope you see it to completion. Kudos to you for sharing it here on the board. We have been known to be a bit harsh in the past with other builders, so I am impressed that you would show us your "sketch".

With all that fillet brazing, and bending going on, I'd bet that this would be one of the pricier alternatives!

Wish I Were Riding · 03-21-2006

Looks cool, not that you are asking for MY opinion.

Not unlike OX brand bikes.

I don't like the middle tube by itself. Do you think its neccessary? It detracts from the two down tubes.

robpennell · 03-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar Ted

What about bottle mounts? I see how one could go on the seat tube. Perhaps something along the lines of a side by side mount on the triple down tube? Perhaps that'd get in the way of pedaling/ riding? Just wondering, as I'm not a camel, and I like mine in a water bottle, thank you very much!

This is definitely not trash! Great idea! I hope you see it to completion. Kudos to you for sharing it here on the board. We have been known to be a bit harsh in the past with other builders, so I am impressed that you would show us your "sketch".

With all that fillet brazing, and bending going on, I'd bet that this would be one of the pricier alternatives!

I think you could get two water bottles in there. Just drill some holes in the "top" downtube and braze them in. Now that I think about it more a ST bottle may be out. You could get a cage in there but would there be room to get the bottle in and out. I'll play with it some tomorrow. Yea, it would / should be a little pricey unless I can standardize it a little to speed things up. If I offer this design up it would be way more pimped out. I'd build a couple of lugs for the seattube. One from the bb up 5" or so to help support the down tube / seattube intersection and for the seattube / tt intersection. Plus I would use a much nicer ebb than that 1pound tandem pos that I used.

Hey, I have thick skin. Slam away!

) I'm just at a little cross roads with this project and wanted some feedback to see if it was worth spending more time and money. I actually had it in the vise with a hacksaw in my hand then changed my mind to try this out first.

robpennell · 03-21-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Wish I Were Riding

Looks cool, not that you are asking for MY opinion.

Not unlike OX brand bikes.

I don't like the middle tube by itself. Do you think its neccessary? It detracts from the two down tubes.

When I first thought this up it was with two tubes in mind but thought it would be way flexy. Actually while talking with DWF about the whole flexy thing he came up with the idea of the third tube with struts holding the three tubes together to stiffen it up. I left the struts off for now because I wanted to ride it and see what's going on. Then add the struts in later so I can feel the change.

Thanks for the link. Cool stuff.

vulture · 03-22-2006

Prob not light eh? You could gusset the downtubes together with a nice dimpled plate gusset, You could use plate for the seat tube/cantilever tubes as well, Ive seen some done that way. Really cool Rob, answers some special 29er questions, You should engineer and draw up some butted tubes to save some weight,
cheers, Wade

fanzy4 · 03-22-2006

Looks really cool !
I would just worry about the width of the double top-tube near the seat-tube: might be a bit uncomfortable for your knees... ;-)

Ozmosis · 03-22-2006

I agree about the width. Maybe you could bring the double top tubes in right against the seat tube and then behind the seat tube use a curved plate to get the width for the seat stays (similar to the Unit 2-9 chain stays' plate).

Beautiful design, by the way.

DWF · 03-22-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by robpennell

When I first thought this up it was with two tubes in mind but thought it would be way flexy. Actually while talking with DWF about the whole flexy thing he came up with the idea of the third tube with struts holding the three tubes together to stiffen it up. I left the struts off for now because I wanted to ride it and see what's going on. Then add the struts in later so I can feel the change.

Thanks for the link. Cool stuff.

Doood! That thing looks even cooler than I thought it would! Great job!

Allroy · 03-22-2006

I like the double top and down tubes, very nice flow to the tubes also. The 3rd downtube is a little weird to my eye. I think if that tube were a smaller diameter so there's some variation to tube thickness it would help with the visual heirarchy of the frame. I don't mind that it follows the double down tubes, but what if it doesn't start at the headtube, maybe it comes out of the double down tubes, maybe it connects with the seat tube further up, just some random thoughts. Either way I think you have a great idea with minor tweaking.

Finish it up so we can see it with color!

Francis Buxton · 03-23-2006

That bike looks gay. You should get rid of it. If you built it with a normal length top tube (instead of one for your short-ass torso), I'll take it off your hands. I'll be over Sunday morning to pick it up.

I say clean it up and spray it with a little rattle-can love, put some parts on it and ride it around. I think the design looks good.

I think it will be easier for everyone to envision with paint and wheels. If you don't like it, it will always make a great pub crawler.

Good work dude. Now let's start working on a chopper version.

12snap · 03-23-2006

I'm not in the market nor was I planning to be in the market for a custom frame. But, since I've just wasted the past 30 minutes just staring at these pics, maybe I should be. I'm seriously tempted to tell you to slap some brake mounts on it and I'll buy this one from you. But judging from the seat tube length, I'm pretty sure it's too big for me.

I don't build frames but if I could, I would build something like this.

It looks like you might be able to rotate the seatstay/top tubes inward closer to the seat tube. That would address the width issues without needing any additional bends. It may affect tire clearance a bit, though.

Where would you put your logo?

robpennell · 03-23-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by 12snap

Where would you put your logo?

I dont know. Maybe just a headbadge or something. I guess I could do some stainless letters on the seattube or some stickers just for the seattube. Its actually more compact than the pics show. I'll try to get it built up next week sometime.

benwitt11 · 03-23-2006

I love the looks of the frame. Would you leave that much seat tube out of the frame unbraced? I only ask because we've warrenteed a few Fisher frames with similar designs that cracked at at that junction. Just wondering you r thoughts on that. You are the frame builder after all, I just hang parts on them. Stainless letters would be awesome. Pair it with a polished stainless headbadge, wht more would you need?

robpennell · 03-23-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by benwitt11

I love the looks of the frame. Would you leave that much seat tube out of the frame unbraced? I only ask because we've warrenteed a few Fisher frames with similar designs that cracked at at that junction. Just wondering you r thoughts on that. You are the frame builder after all, I just hang parts on them. Stainless letters would be awesome. Pair it with a polished stainless headbadge, wht more would you need?

No, I just havent cut it off yet. I wasnt sure where the tubes would hit so I left the seattube full length while building. Maybe the next one will see a little stainless love.

MMcG · 03-23-2006

Question - with the dual top tubes like that would it cause you to have to ride sorta bow legged to get around the top tube width for lack of a better phrase?

Adam · 03-23-2006

I have a real thing for curved tube bikes. And that bike is hot! A little rough around the edges but like you said its just a sketch. I really love bikes like this. Something creative and unique, yet ridable. Go for it. I agree with the posts above about the braces needing to be curved.

"Actually while talking with DWF about the whole flexy thing he came up with the idea of the third tube with struts holding the three tubes together to stiffen it up. I left the struts off for now because I wanted to ride it and see what's going on. Then add the struts in later so I can feel the change."

How about this make the struts out of small diameter tubing bent in the pattern of a spider web, the webbing goes across the down tubes and top tubes, chrome the frame, leave the webbing chrome, paint the bike candy apple red with black flames coming off the head tube and a matching, removable, rear rack in a chrome spider web pattern. Yeah I like the frame, in case you hadn't guessed, I'm already day dreaming about it.

Adam

benwitt11 · 03-23-2006

It's similar in design to the Spicer I had. It's less of a problem than you would think. I didn't find it to be a problem at all. Maybe if you had tree tunks for legs, maybe.

robpennell · 03-23-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by MMcG

Question - with the dual top tubes like that would it cause you to have to ride sorta bow legged to get around the top tube width for lack of a better phrase?

Not sure yet but it would be an easy fix. I would just bring them both in closer to the seattube. It will be rideable sometime next week. I'll stick a disc mount on there and clean it up a little.

robpennell · 03-23-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Adam

I have a real thing for curved tube bikes. And that bike is hot! A little rough around the edges but like you said its just a sketch. I really love bikes like this. Something creative and unique, yet ridable. Go for it. I agree with the posts above about the braces needing to be curved.

"Actually while talking with DWF about the whole flexy thing he came up with the idea of the third tube with struts holding the three tubes together to stiffen it up. I left the struts off for now because I wanted to ride it and see what's going on. Then add the struts in later so I can feel the change."

How about this make the struts out of small diameter tubing bent in the pattern of a spider web, the webbing goes across the down tubes and top tubes, chrome the frame, leave the webbing chrome, paint the bike candy apple red with black flames coming off the head tube and a matching, removable, rear rack in a chrome spider web pattern. Yeah I like the frame, in case you hadn't guessed, I'm already day dreaming about it.

Adam

That would be cool. I could use barbwire for the spider web pattern. I do want to build some racks in the near future. Maybe I'll give it a try for this bike.

Adam · 03-23-2006

Barbed wire sounds cool.

To me this type of design is a big part of the appeal of a custom bike. Of course my perspective is from an average sized guy who isn't picky/tuned in about bike fit. In otherwords almost everything on the market fits me and I can't really tell the difference from one bike to another (in terms of fit). The few times I have shopped for (but never bought) custom bikes I'm usually looking for something pretty (lugs or swoopy tubes) or for some unique functional items (custom racks or mounts, action-tec fork, snow bike, soft-tail etc) but I'm not really looking to solve basic bike fit problems becasue I usually like just about everything I ride. (I'd be a horrible bike tester becasue everything would be rated as great!!).

That's just my $.02 if it matters to you. The custom fit builders don't really call out to me as much as builders who will either build something pretty or entertain my goofy utilitarian ideas. But I imagine I'm a small percentage of the market for custom builders, since most guys talk about bike fit.

Adam

surlytman · 03-23-2006

That frame blows me away, nice outside the box work.

~martini~ · 03-23-2006

LOVE it Rob! I really dig the nearly parallel trajectory of the top/seatstays and downtube. It looks very graceful, much more so than many of the other cruiser style frames that have put out as of late. PUt some arched braces inbetwixt the top tubes there and I think you've got a wiener!

Drevil · 03-23-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by robpennell

I dont know. Maybe just a headbadge or something. I guess I could do some stainless letters on the seattube or some stickers just for the seattube. Its actually more compact than the pics show. I'll try to get it built up next week sometime.

What about a stainless headbadge logo between the top tubes, staring right up at ya?

Would this design mean that there'll be a lot of mud splashin' you in the face?

It's a funky and unique design. Cool!

jh_on_the_cape · 03-24-2006

maybe a dumb idea... but put a bottle mount on the seattube so the bottle sticks up through the twin top tubes (if it fits). then you just pull up. the cool thing is that you would probably not lose a bottle. and it would just look cool. put one of those flask holders there if a bottle doesnt fit.

i think that would show off the twin TT when you see it from the side. like 'how is that bottle going throught the TT????'

i dont like the spiderweb or diamondplate idea. i like retro, not OC chopper.

overall the curves look cool.

colnago made a twin downtube bike (the bititan) a while back. without the third tube. was that flexy?

evilbike · 03-24-2006

How about doubled chain stays like Ahearn (sp?) is doing on his 29ers?

Guitar Ted · 03-24-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by jh_on_the_cape

maybe a dumb idea... but put a bottle mount on the seattube so the bottle sticks up through the twin top tubes (if it fits). then you just pull up. the cool thing is that you would probably not lose a bottle. and it would just look cool. put one of those flask holders there if a bottle doesnt fit.

i think that would show off the twin TT when you see it from the side. like 'how is that bottle going throught the TT????'

This would be a cool idea Rob. It'd kill two birds with one stone. On one hand, you get rid of the ladder braces and replace them with a circular brace that just happens to fit a standard water bottle! Voila'! A cup holder! You could call the bike The Suburban! Ha!

But seriously, this would solve your seat tube bottle mount elegantly. (Well......only if you are brazing it in! )

indigosky · 03-28-2006

where did you source the tubing for the tt/seat stays? What is it? I realize it is steel, but dia, thickness, etc?

robpennell · 03-28-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by indigosky

where did you source the tubing for the tt/seat stays? What is it? I realize it is steel, but dia, thickness, etc?

5/8" .035 4130 tubing. You can get it cut to length from www.aircraftspruce.com

1 Speed · 04-05-2006

Robo... biaatch! I really like the general idea. The frame... flows really nicely. My suggestions, pull the top tubes in a bit at the seat tube. Personally, I love the second (or third) D/T. It really gives the bike a vintage look and helps tighten up the frame.

Possibly, the rear seatstay connector, do it curved. You could carry that idea to the one in front of the S/T as well.

I saw, on one of Don McLung's bikes for his Girlfriend (Ol' Lady) small heart shaped pieces. It was on one of his 'typical' bikes, but with a womens type design. Very cool. Just a thought as far as tying the tubes together goes.

I think you've got the makings of a winner though.

There are times, I wish that I were there to verbally abuse you in person. Damn!

dRjOn · 04-19-2006

has this frame been born?

robpennell · 04-19-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by dRjOn

has this frame been born?

No, its still hanging up as shown in the pics. I'll try to get it rideable this weekend. Been slammed with everything besides framebuilding time. I'm going to give this one to a buddy who is fast and abusive. Maybe we can get some ride reports next week sometime.

dRjOn · 04-19-2006

cool, looking forward to seeing it...cheers

Francis Buxton · 04-19-2006

Yeah man, get off your butt and put some wheels and paint on that thing. It's not like you've got anything better to do....

robpennell · 06-19-2006

Since I sold my personal bike I finally got around to finishing it. It actually turned out pretty sweet. The ride is great and is way more stiff than I expected. Josh from www.altbike.com is coming over tonight and will be stealing it for a few days to test out. Look for pics and review on www.altbike.com in the next week or so. But for now here are some specs. I have decided to offer these and will start "Sketch" #2 when time allows (3-4 months) unless someone wants one sooner.

23.1 lbs set up fixed/fixed (I was shocked it was this light)
wheels = Level hubs F&R laced to Mustangs
Tires = Ritchey Zed Pro's 42c cross tires set up tubeless
Stem = Thomson
post = Thomson
Seat = Selle somthing or the other Cant remember
Bars = Profile Alum (Barb won them somewhere)
Grips = Profile (Barb won them also)
Chain = KMC big heavy bastard
Fork = 470mm steel
Cranks = XT with Salsa 32t chainring
Front Brake = Avid SL V-brake
Front Lever = Avid speed dial 7
Rear Brake & Lever = NONE
Paint = NONE

Guitar Ted · 06-19-2006

Wow! That's awesome, Rob. I can't believe it's that light either. A question: Would a more judicious choice of tubing make it even lighter? Maybe even going non-sus corrected geometry? Just wonderin', ya know?

I'll be checking for pictures of this, thanks for the heads up!

benwitt11 · 06-20-2006

Quote:

Its Alive!

Pictures? So you had a busy weekend huh?

robpennell · 06-20-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by benwitt11

Pictures? So you had a busy weekend huh?

Josh took some pics but I'm not sure when he will have them up on altbike.com. I think he is going to ride it around for a while then post up a review.

Yea, real busy but I'm finally able to turn out some work now that the move is over.

G-Ted -- I'm guessing at least 1/2 lb with a light wheelset and 1/2 lb if I used a different ebb. Everything else is pretty much set in stone. 22lbs should be easy to hit considering the wheels I have on there now.

Francis Buxton · 06-20-2006

Don't forget that 12 lb chain man. Those KMC bmx chains weigh as much as some fixies I've had (whole bike).

I bet you could drop some weight by going to a PC-48. Use the KMC to beat your kids.

josh@altbike · 06-20-2006

First impression is favorable, stay tuned.

benwitt11 · 06-21-2006

Nice shots! I love the lines, (I've got this thing for cruisers.) Nice work Rob!

bd.sahib · 06-22-2006

Beautiful Fillets! The Badger badge is a nice touch.

-Dave

bd.sahib · 06-29-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by josh@altbike

First impression is favorable, stay tuned.

Great write up Josh

robpennell · 06-29-2006

Review and more pics in image gallery on www.altbike.com

robpennell · 06-29-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by robpennell

Review and more pics in image gallery on www.altbike.com

Err I guess the pic thing didnt work. Here is a link. http://altbike.com/image-gallery/bad...ke-2/?size=500

MMcG · 06-29-2006

cool bike - I look forward to seeing the next iteration of this frame.

benwitt11 · 07-08-2006

I rode the bike down in Boone IA with Rob last weekend. I have to say that I was very impressed with how stiff it was. It rode very well and tracked great, all without being too jarring. Gorgeous lines, the pics really don't do it justice. I can't wait to see Ver. 2.0.