Did Some Gary Fisher Testing Yesterday

mattomoto · 03-19-2006

Yesterday a couple of us Subaru/Fisher racers (well me, mechanic) did some bike testing out at the local trails (Hall Ranch). JHK and Heather Irmiger were testing there new GF Race Day's vs. their 26" hard tails. The Race Day's are the 26" versions. So why is this in the 29er forum you say? I was on JHK's 29er.
We had a course that had a nice 8-10 min. climb with lots of switch backs and steeps followed by a very rocky, technical downhill and a stretch of road ride back to the parking lot and the start of the climb again.
We started with the 26" hard tails (same one JHK just won a race in Cypress on) and did a lap. I followed Heather down the descent with Jeremy up front. He pretty much dusted us as expected. I had no problem hanging with Heather (she is no slow poke by any means!). I did bobble one section, but figured it was because I was on a hard tail. (I am on the 29er the whole test session). When we get to the bottom, I realized I forgot to unlock the fork! Score one for the 29er!
Next, JHK and HI switch to the Race Days. JHK's RD is just over 23.5 lbs. if ya want to know. Second lap, climb speed is the maybe a hair slower, but the descent is much faster. Heather is pretty close to JHK with me right on her wheel. We were flying! Seemed like double the speed of the 26" HT's. My fork is unlocked this time and I have no problems at all.
We do one more lap with the racers on the RD's and this time I am on JHK's wheel on the descent. Amazing that I kept pretty much on his wheel on most of the descent. His comment to me once we got to the bottom was "It says a lot about a 29er bike that you stayed that close to me on the descent." He did say he was not quite at race speed but pretty close. Score again for the 29er!
So what did we find? The new Race Day is a very fast bike. Very ridged for climbing, but soaks up the big stuff. It is very fast at speed. Handles very well. The 29er, very fast as well- good on must terrain, a little slower over very rough, rocky, technical climbing (the Race Day was faster. And the weight of the 29 HT? Just over 23 lbs. The 26" HT wins the weight category at 20.5 lbs. Very good climbing machine. So the racers have quite the quiver of bikes at their disposal. Course will decide which bike to use.
We were all impressed with the new Race Days and I can't wait to get my hands on the 29" version.
Thanks for reading.
Matto

Cloxxki · 03-19-2006

Hey Matto, thanks for that nice write-up!

Of course, the 29"er wasn't built up equally to the 26" hardtail, judging from the 2.5lb difference? Mathematically, the difference should be well under a pound, even with extra spokes for the 29"er to level wheel strength. Still not too bad for a bike hardtail, of course, regardless of wheelsize.

mattomoto · 03-19-2006

Yeah, build was with Juicey 7 brakes and Reba 29 fork being the big differance- 26 HT has v-brakes and a Sid WC. 26 wheels much lighter. We are working on this though.

Tbone · 03-19-2006

Moto,

thanks for the quick review. I'm curious how the ride of the 29er RD felt - plush or harsh? After riding the HT, did the frame feel laterally rigid or flexxy? How was it spec'd? Are the RD's chainstays shorter than the Sugar 292/3?? Do you know when it will be available? Sorry for all the Q's, just trying to decide whether to get a RD or save for another.

Thanks for any additional info

mattomoto · 03-19-2006

Tbone- Sorry, I do not currently have a 29 RD to test- soon I hope. I can tell you that the 26 RD does not flex in the rear- no side to side flex. This is something I noticed on the first climb. I have about 10 hours on the bike pounding it around Boulder county trails. In comparison to a four bar susp. bike I have (Epic) the ride of the RD is much better- no flex in the swing arm. If the 29 version is close to the 26 version, it should make for a good ride.
In comparison to a Sugar, the other mechanic says the RD has a much stiffer rear end and that the bike tracks better than his Sugar.
As soon as we get a 29 RD I will give you all some feedback. Can't wait.

Cloxxki · 03-20-2006

If the RD's descend so much better than the 26" hardtails, and you were all but pushing JHK when you were on the 29" hardtail, and he ond the RD, maybe he should have done the same lap on the 29" hardtail too? Then, the current extra pounds may be too much of a bulk for him to really appreciate the bike...

What 26" and 29" tires do you guys get to choose from?

realbiker · 03-20-2006

I've some questions conserning JHKs setup ..

- Which handlebar does he use and how wide is it?
- Why does he ride trigger on one side and grip shift on the other?

Thanks

Cloxxki · 03-20-2006

Funny, me and a friend also have trigger on one side. It just happened that way for budget reasons. It's good to have a twister for the front, as it allows for micro-adjustments (read : sloppy setup)

realbiker · 03-20-2006

But I think JHK has got a trigger front and a twister back if I'm not wrong ...

Tbone · 03-20-2006

Was running on little sleep! Thanks for the update.

- Jeremy - · 03-20-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by realbiker

But I think JHK has got a trigger front and a twister back if I'm not wrong ...

Merl,

The twister is to micro adjust the front derailleur. The trigger is for the rear cogs.

Personally, I run X.0 triggers front and back and I find no need to micro adjust the front derailleur like I did years ago with the old XTR.

- Jeremy -

mattomoto · 03-20-2006

JHK is running a Bonty RXXXL riser bar. Standard width 630mm/40mm rise.
Tyre wise, IRC's. Mainly MIbros and Notos. As for the shifter setup, The twister on the front der. side is mainly from an accident last year- was easier for him to operate the twisty. Also, he is running a 2x crank on the RD right now, so it is alittle easier to trim the shifting.
As for running the 29 HT over a 26 RD, it is going to come down to the course- how much climbing, tight tech.stuff, and how the cuircut finishes. We shall see. Sea Otter will be a good test for both bikes...

Tbone · 03-20-2006

(Personally, I run X.0 triggers front and back and I find no need to micro adjust the front derailleur like I did years ago with the old XTR.

- Jeremy -)
(quote)

Awesome that you're considering running with the bigwheels this season. Can you give us ANY impressions on what you've experienced on the RD or which courses you think you may take it on?

03-24-2006

Matt,
How are you guys running the 29er's as far as using or not using tubes? I always ran tubeless on my ziggurat and I'm now on a paragon, but I'm alittle worried about using tubeless from all the horror stories I've heard and read about the beads blowing off the wheels. I've got a set of IRC notos kevlar that I plan to use for racing and the stans kit to convert to tubeless, setting it up is no problem for me. I'm just asking for your advice on the subject.

So will you be at the norba nationals race in north carolina? I could bug ya for more info there as well!
Thanks for your help,
Brien.

mattomoto · 03-25-2006

We have them set up tubless. Stans and a rim strip. Don't over inflate the tyres the first time (not over 40 psi) as it tends to stretch out the beads of the Notos. Nat and Cam both run the Notos. I have been riding the Bonty XR 1.8's tubeless with no problems. They have seen some very rocky trails and no issues. It is a very fast tyre setup.

We will be in N. Carolina. Come look us up. I'll be the one with tools in hand

Maybe we will have a 29 Race Day by then.

03-27-2006

Hey Matt,
Thanks for putting up with my questions. What kinda air pressures are you using? I understand thats sort of a subjective question based on terrain,rider,weather and such. I used to run 38-40 psi with tubes and never had a problem, then I'd run like 27psi frt and 31-32psi rear tubeless.
I weigh 185 lbs and am 6ft 2in, it seems like my paragon needs more air in the rear tire compared to my ziggurat did. Is that because of the longer chainstays and thus different weight distribution on the bike or because the volume of the tires is different since they are 29er's instead of 26? The front doesn't seem like it needs more air like the rear, but I'm in the same positon relative to the wheel compared to the rear.
I also have a set of the 1.8 xr's and they seem fast, but again the rear needs about 4psi more than normal.
I appreciate all your help and advice.
We'll definitely look you up at sugar mtn nmbs!
Brien

realbiker · 03-29-2006

But Nat was running Mythos CX 42 in most of the races wasn't he?

Any news when the teamguys will use the supercal. for the first time and when JHK will race his 29er for the first time ???

Cloxxki · 03-29-2006

Brienf, I was always under the impression that a no-tubes setup asks for a couple psi MORE, because of the improved compliance. Use appropriate rims+strips and make sure you have a positive tire fit, not too lose. Keep pressures under 40, and you've got the best chance to not produce any hororstories yourself.

KC.K. · 04-09-2006

what size frame does JHK ride? or is it custom?