Dutch Cycling Union KNWU outlaws 29"

Cloxxki · 01-19-2006

This just in, AFTER I got a licence number appointed to me for 2006. I already wrote my cancellation email.

After the German union, now the Dutch also decide to (for unmentioned reasons) to go back to the old 26" rules. They even state it, in Dutch "26 inches". Like the inch is a Dutch word, and we haven't gone metric yet.
It's still allowed though to use 559x32mm tires, drop bars and rigid carbon forks.
We can guess it's a cross thing. Some CX bikes are seen from now and then, but only super ladies win races on them from time to time. Many after me have pleaded for a "fat tire" rule, but nothing like that.

Guess I'm calling Geneva tomorrow...

Drevil · 01-19-2006

Haven't you heard? You've been extolling the virtues of 29er-dom: faster, better traction, get over stuff easier...29ers are cheatin'!

Did they give a reason?

Guitar Ted · 01-19-2006

Yeah, I know that it's probably not feasable, but if they want to stick their heads in the sand, then what are you going to do? Start riding your Bokor again? I think not. Time to start a revolution! Go "underground" and start your own "union".

LJintheUK · 01-19-2006

Just ride every race wearing a "Free the 29" jersey and get disqualified. Make the idiots look stupid

.

ozlongboarder · 01-19-2006

Sounds like they need a swift kick in the n#ts!

Cloxxki · 01-19-2006

They never give reasons.
On the main Dutch race forum, actually more people were against it than applauding.
I might build a 24" bike. Or a Pugsley. The latter, with trimmed tires, high psi, just might be pretty quick, I may not be DFL.

I am first calling the Union, to give me and fellow 29" riders a valid reason, and a permit for me to ride the only mountain bikes I own (though I do still have some 26" leftover frames under my tire pile).
After that, I'm calling Geneva (UCI), see how hard it is to get Hein Verbruggen (chairman) on the phone. On TV he seems like a very openminded person, close to the riders. And a fellow countryman.

Cloxxki · 01-19-2006

Showing up to every race and getting disqualified or physically taken off the track is appealing, but is it worth my expenses?

I'd love to hear their official reason and slap them in the face with the proper solution.

I've been eyeing X-Terra offroad triathlons, but there's not all too many of them, and I have no car, hitch hike to most MTB races.

Racing my Bokor? Sure I could, and with some Schwalbe tires I can kick mayor ass on (providing I'm fit), but I would never ride the bike in "my own time". I had a season like that in 2003. Raced my teambike, rode my Fisher 29". I had no connection with that team bike whatsover, though it was fine for a 26"er.
I've been investing seriously over the past years to get my dream 29"er done.Okay, not a huge amount, but to me quite significant. The union is coming very late with their ruling and it seems unfair to me. Rules affect riders. Not just pro cyclist, also the enthousiast that saves up to buy his bike.

wooglin · 01-19-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloxxki

After that, I'm calling Geneva (UCI), see how hard it is to get Hein Verbruggen (chairman) on the phone. On TV he seems like a very openminded person, close to the riders. And a fellow countryman.

Hein is out. Pat McQuaid is in. Good luck though. Sounds like conservative BS to me.

Cloxxki · 01-19-2006

So I see, that sucks...

Bigwheel · 01-19-2006

The incongruity of countries that have embraced the use of 700c wheel/28" designated bicycles for over 100 years that won't allow them for use in "bicycle races" is beyond all reason. You would think that they invented the concept of using 26" wheels offroad

and it is a matter of national pride.

Cloxxki, whatever we can do to help, just ask.

Cloxxki · 01-19-2006

Thnaks Biggie.
Maybe I need you guys for a little email action later on.
First I'm going to make sure I get my money back (they won't like that, and try to give me a hard time.
Then I'll ask the National MTB coach on the phone, he's supposed to know who's plan this is and why it was agreed like this.

Remember, in '04 my country had the frist 29" National Champion, Jelmer Pietersma on a Nishiki Bigfoot, flat bar, WTB kevlar Nano's, Pace 26" rigid fork.

Obviously they **** their pants for CX bikes, or hate cross-breading. Even if that were a bad thing (works fine in the USA, courses decide what works and what doesn't, all our MTB races are sortof CX like), just force everyone on 55+cm handlebars (find those for a cross bike) and 45mm tires (try to fit them on a cross bike). This is the UCI all over again, and back. They just upped the limit 3 inches when the bikes because available and appeared to be used more and more. UCI refused to listen to the fat tire advice, and kept it at "29 inches". So, all at once CX bikes were eligible, and nothing to be done about it. Germany saw it coming, and did the same what now the Dutch union does : run away, and turn back the rules. Like they failed. I'd like to see a CX crack in a German MTB race.

I'm pissed beyond belif here. I've been training more consistently than ever before, since Jan 1st. Doing running (which I hate), swimming (I sink like a brick), and even *gasp* some solo rides.

My sport being taken away from me. I have no cash to build a 26" bike, even if I wanted to. Been developping 29" bikes with Cube for some time, am the proud owner of an excellent mass-produced and alwas sold out Fisher, and just love these bikes to death. 29" or bust, 26" is soooo 90's to me.

**shiggy** · 01-19-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloxxki

They never give reasons.
On the main Dutch race forum, actually more people were against it than applauding.
I might build a 24" bike. Or a Pugsley. The latter, with trimmed tires, high psi, just might be pretty quick, I may not be DFL.

I am first calling the Union, to give me and fellow 29" riders a valid reason, and a permit for me to ride the only mountain bikes I own (though I do still have some 26" leftover frames under my tire pile).
After that, I'm calling Geneva (UCI), see how hard it is to get Hein Verbruggen (chairman) on the phone. On TV he seems like a very openminded person, close to the riders. And a fellow countryman.

How can a national federation ban a bike that the UCI says is legal?

They can allow a bike in local/national events that is not legal for UCI but the other way around is screwy.

Cloxxki · 01-20-2006

They can have their local policies. Germany's been doing it for this rule all the time. They hate change.

In this case it doesn't add anything to the sport, it excludes riders. The UCI allowed 29" bikes because they are valid bikes, at least as safe, and they want people to come RIDE and participate in the sport. This ruling is just based on shortsighted orthodox ideas, or so it seems. CX bikes are taking over the world! Truth is, if full-time MTB'er wouldn't ride cross to survive the winter, the starting grids in our recent Nationals would have been halfed. And this was 35 Elite men starters.

mondo · 01-20-2006

It is nice to live in the USA! We can race whatever bike we want! at any race we want.
You can race a crossbike in a Fat tire race
You can race a Fat tire in a cross race
You can race a roadbike in a Fat tire race, if you want to
You can race a Fat tire bike in a road race, if you want to

teamdicky · 01-20-2006

that is totally asinine. If they give you a reason (not like it would be a good one) please post it up. Maybe someone on a 29'er ran over his dog.

Drevil · 01-20-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by mondo

It is nice to live in the USA! We can race whatever bike we want! at any race we want.
You can race a crossbike in a Fat tire race

Not always. At one of our local race series, they disregard the results of folks using cyclocross bikes. The promoter believes it gives the rider an unfair advantage. Because of the terrain, I wouldn't do the races on a cross bike, and I've never seen anyone that did it on a cross bike do well either, but that's beside the point.

I've explained to the promoter that there are so many ways to set up a bike nowadays, including a time when I put Midge bars on my Monkey. Would that make it a cross bike, or did I have to go to a certain width tire to make it a cross bike? He didn't really have a good answer, saying that he'll count bikes originally made as cyclocross bikes as so.

I say ride whatchu want to, as long as it's safe and it's a bike.

Cloxxki · 01-20-2006

I've been outlawed from fat tire crits. The same people saying 29" ain't never gonna work, also promote mtb crits, where they hate cheater's bikes. People sometimes...

So I called the chief technical affairs at my union. He was not pleased that I called after having emailed, but eventuelly he gave me some explanation. Apparently, a mountainbike commission had looked at it, voted, and pressed through. The chief agreed that it was a bit cutting the corner, when such a decision might have been announced for 2007. when I hinted the rules didn't seem to well though-through in their set up (he had not read my deatiled email on it) he said that true mountainbike riders reside in this commission, supposedly it's not a bunch of suits coming up with ideas to enforce or ban.

My email has been forwarded to the commission, and the chief says he'll get back to me about it.
I've reported this same story on a couple Dutch forums where the issue is addressed.

Interestingly, the chief let me share in his opinion that the 29" thing has only come into existence due to commercial pressure. He did mention the Bigfoot word (Nishiki tradename).
Now I know that Gary Fisher was invited by the UCI MTB commission to do his saying for 29" (I'm proud to have been allowed to prepare some papers for his Geneva presentations to pick from), BeOne Pro rider Bas de Bever (now national BMX, 4X and DH coach) was part of the commission. And in 2004, Nishiki had many Bigfoots riding around the national competition (rigid only, they sucked as hardtail, even for WorldCups) as part of the HPC trade team.
But commercial pressure?? Can the UCI be bought? Cheap enough for Fisher to bother (not selling too many bikes in 2003 anyway), Nishiki (never made a real seller), or BeOne (fat tire trekking bikes)?.

I hope my extensive email with some mtb history will make the chief and commission more positive about the validity of 29", and it's independed existence from commerce, especially in this early stage.

I did not write or speak of any technical traits for 29", other than that we like to ride them better and that we crash less often, both undeniably true. Just I may not be enjoying my bikes in any races the coming year. Yeah some SS races, and if I have balls, an X-Terra.

People are suggesting me to build up an old 26" frame. I'm thinking 24". Maybe a Pugs, if I hit the Jackpott. Now won't that piss of the commission members?

~martini~ · 01-20-2006

I'd almost be willing to help in this endeavour. Forward some cash to a pyapal to support cloxxki's "protest" season! Show up at as many races as you can. Ride 'em till finish, get DQ'd and file a protest. Just make a nusiance out of yourself. Get as many fellow niner riders out too. Get vocal. And quick. We know you can do that.

It certainly sounds as if they're just afraid of change. Poor bastards.

Cloxxki · 01-20-2006

First it was MTB's killing CX, now the other way around huh?

bigwheelboy_490 · 01-20-2006

When the UCI first banned 29'ers, in Ontario, the OCA followed suite. They also followed the UCI regulatons for Road regarding which wheels were legally allowed to be used. Their arguements were based on the fact that they could be sued if a wheel that was banned internationally was used in local competition and caused an injury.

That said, if 29'ers were banned in Ontario again, I would use the arguement that they followed UCI rulings regarding the wheel ban, but why would they go against UCI regulations for 29" wheels?

Also, is there a World Cup in Holland this year? What regulations will the dutch federation follow if a pro show's up on a 29'er?

lanpope · 01-20-2006

Clox what is the exact language of the rule? How much room is there for interpretation? Also does it disclose the possibility of going BIGGER than 29"?

I say you show up on a Coker and really piss them off!

Fascists.....

LP

Cloxxki · 01-20-2006

Wheels front and rear may be nog bigger than 26 inches

This actually either rules out all mtb tires over 26x1.7", or all allowes all up to 29", depending whether it's with or without tire. Obviously the non-mentioned idea is that it's the tire.
The Dutch Union chief was right, the road regulations are a thick book, lots of work (money) put into it, the MTB regulations hardly exist, at least for the gear to be used.
But this "26 inches" thing is just too stoopid. UCI started it once, and it's been hunting rulebooks around the globe ever since.
Under current UCi rules, "29 inches", all tirs 2.2" and larger are illegal as well.
But then, DH bikes were always allowed to use 26x3.0 tires, measuring a good 28" across.
So, when the UCI/KNWU say "26 inches", the really mean "type 559 rims". Or also "type 571/650c"?

It's a mess.

I just emailed Peter VandenAbeele, the Belgian former CX pro nor MTB Coordinator for the UCI "(if I got that right). The guy before was warned by me that if they'd change the 6 into a 9, all hell would break loose. So that's what he did, and now he's gone. I've pleaded Peter to please advise, and use his influence towards a stable solution to keep regulations the same and agreeable around the globe.

evilbike · 01-20-2006

Quote:

Originally Posted by mondo

It is nice to live in the USA! We can race whatever bike we want! at any race we want.
You can race a crossbike in a Fat tire race
You can race a Fat tire in a cross race
You can race a roadbike in a Fat tire race, if you want to
You can race a Fat tire bike in a road race, if you want to

Isn't that a Talking Heads song?

**2melow** · 01-20-2006

A bike that finally fits you tall guys and they ban it! Doh!

**shiggy** · 01-20-2006

Roger Miller. It is the 3rd or 4th verse to "You can't rollerskate in a buffalo herd."

Disco_Inferno · 01-20-2006

Merriam-Webster Online Dictionary

Main Entry: mountain bike
Function: noun
: an all-terrain bicycle with wide knobby tires, straight handlebars, and typically 18 or 21 gears
- mountain biker noun
- mountain biking noun

FIGHT LIKE HELL CLOXXI !!

Cloxxki · 01-21-2006

The Germans have the same "problem". But they don't care for 29", and cross bikes are silly on MTB courses anyway, when in a hurry. The German mags all but deny the 29's existence, it's too bad no-one fought their silly identical ruling, or didn't succeed back in 2004.

Right now I'm pissed, and I can be quite a pita when I am.
Just in case, who's got or can get a good press mailing list? I want everyone from Reuter's to the small Belgian websites but all is welcome....

Thanks!

English Bob · 01-21-2006

i've just posted on a dutch mtbsport forum the result of reading the rule book of the KNWU
The start of in part 1 defining what a bike is based around the measurement of a race bike. There are refinements for CX and MTB bikes in other sections. There are a number of inconsitentcies such as notMTB may have a bar wider than 50cm (as it's not refined from the race bike definition). I suggest drafting a letter to the KNWU and ask for a meeting with them in Woerden.

Getting upset won't lead to a long term solution. A reasoned argument on papier is a better approach together with a request for a face to face dialog is better IMHO.

Cloxxki · 01-21-2006

I wrote an email where I ask the why and explain my problem (no cash for a new bike). I also offered to speak about it. If they let me wait too long, no first race for me in March, no season point, no good starting position.

nightfire · 01-21-2006

Name the venue for the protest and we will be there.

We could mass enter a race. Sprint start to take control of the race then go slow once we hit the singletrack.

P