At last! MkIII / Speedhub Bike Build Complete!

[Speedub.Nate]

	Index of MkIII Build Posts
Iron Horse MkIII Naked Frame (March 2005) Hollowpoint Speedhub Build Pictures (April 2003) Cane Creek AD-12 Air Chamber Volume Adjustment White Brothers 2006 Technology White Brothers DT1.2 Fork Porn	Stripping Anodization Bottom Bracket Drain Hole Drilling & Installation Drilling Out Cable Stops (Full Length Cable Run) Dremel Cut & Prep of Cable & Housing	Hopey Steering Damper Installation Stripping & Polishing an Aluminum Frame Homemade Headset Removal & Installation Tools Star Fangled Nut Removal (Drilling out the Star Nut)

I've been sitting on this egg since early March -- yep, 6 months ago -- but I finally hatched it over Labor Day weekend! Hot damn was that a long wait. Link to my MkIII Frame Porn post

This is first time being this particular about a build, and it cost me a lot of time getting it on the trail. Excuses abound.

The wheels were a pain in the butt -- Velocity VXC rims laced with Sapim CX-Rays in the "pushing" direction, countered up front with Sapim Lasers and in the rear by DT Competition.

The mixed spokes were a compromise, due to lack of availability of certain lengths. I was hoping the bladed black against the sliver would visually offset eachother. All in all, not the contrast I was hoping for, but a pair of strong, stiff wheels all the same.

Typical full-suspension disc-brake Rohloff Speedhub installation using a Speedbone, OEM2 axle plate & QR skewer. Link to my old Hollowpoint Speedhub Installation post.

Again with the Cane Creek shock! I picked an AD-12 for this one, on account of how well my previous DW-link did with a non-platform shock. Compliant! And I'm all over that easy at-home servicability. Due to some of the comments that the MkIII suspension bottoms easily, I cracked the shock open and adjusted the air chamber volume to the smallest setting. This will give me a little more ramp up at the end of the stroke. I'll evaluate the performance in this setting for a while and perhaps try the other settings later down the trail. Link to my Cane Creek AD-12 Volume Adjustment post.

I spent a long time demoing and choosing a fork and really, really, really liked the White Brothers DT 1.2 for this build. 120mm of deep travel, an excellent damping system, customized with an air spring, and a 20mm through-axle for starters. It's an oil damped system, but changes to compression damping are made via air pressure applied to the right leg. It's got a wide range of adjustment and is extremely compliant. Rebound adjustment is made via a control on the bottom of the leg. Link to 2006 White Brothers Technology post. The air spring uses White Bros latest low-pressure air spring technology and I'm finding it very compliant and smooth, even though Eko Sport says to expect a 10 hour break-in period. Combine the air spring & damper technologies and it's just a wonderful fork for aggressive climbing without becoming a bob monster, and without losing the small-bump sensitivity I expect. By the way, this fork came with Enduro Fork Seals, which I've been waiting for for a long time and were only made available recently. According to White Brother's tech support, with Enduro seals in place, I'll be able to inject 15cc of oil in each leg to convert the fork to a semi-bath lubrication system. Link to my White Brother's DT 1.2 Fork Porn post.

The fork's performance is awsome. I can only begin to go into how well the front end tracks and what firm control it provides. I'm completely sold on the stiffness resulting from the 20mm design, and expect that all of my forks in the future will use through-axles.

Mated to the WB fork is a White Industries CHUB front hub.

I used some Easy-Off to remove the blue anodizing off of the old LX cranks, which are still kicking strong and looking pretty decent with their new silver finish. Link to my Stripping Anodization post. I also drilled a drain hole into the bottom bracket shell, and detailed it and the bottom bracket installation in a separate post. Link to my Bottom Bracket Installation Post

The chainring is a Surly stainless steel SS ring, which shines up bright and nicely complements my long-wearing drivetrain.

Of course I drilled out the cable stops -- would you expect otherwise? Full-length housing runs are truly the smoothest way to cable a bike. Link to my Drilling Out Cable Stops post.

Although I always preach about the virtues of "generic" black housing sold by QBP and manufactured by Jagwire, I couldn't pass this stuff up: This is the exact same Jagwire housing, dressed up with a metallic weave, and sold under the Specialized brand. Identical to the everyday black housing, even priced identically in 100-foot rolls! Link to my Cutting & Prepping Cable Housing post.

After going 'round and 'round with the Hopey steering damper for my wife's bike, I had to install one on the MkIII. I love what this damper does to track up climbs and keep my front end where I put it. Too early for me to review, but so far I'm impressed with the Hopey's performance. Link to my Hopey installation post.

Although the Speedhub installation adds a bit of clutter and weight to the rear end of the bike...

...it pays back in spades in terms of drivetrain simplicity and reliability. Shifts everywhere, everytime, with the dependability of an oil bath gearbox and internal indexing. Although I have to run a chain tensioner to allow for suspension movement, I retain the benefit of a singlespeed-like straight chainline...

...and the whole gear range I grasp in the palm of one hand. If you haven't tried a Speedhub, seek one out.

Did I mention that I stripped, polished and clearcoated my rear triangle? **A lot** of work -- probably something I won't attempt again -- but the results, far from perfect, aren't too shabby. Link to my Frame Strip & Polish post.

[Monte]

Sweet, nice build. Does the fork have travel adjustment?

Monte

[KevinB]

Wow! Nicely done.

[Rainman]

There are so many good things about your build, I really like the way you went about it, and the end result is fantastic..

R.

[yump]

wow! very nice and great writeup

[r1Gel]

Excellent!

Ride report to follow I hope...

[baycat]

Fullsusser with a single speed? Sorry I am ignorant to what a speedhub is?

But ignorance is bliss, and that bike looks gorgeous even if some of technology escpaes me

[Mr.P]

I forgot to add this.

No more water coming in the 04 HollowPoint seat tube after moving to a Thomson 27.2 seatpost. Firm fit but it also keeps the water out.

Mr. P

[Mr.P]

Nice write up Nate! Thanks for the quality info. I clicked around your links and replied to some.

Congrats on the truly unique build. It looks sweet.

Hats off for taking such a creative approach and really looking at all you bits from a critical and objective standpoint.

Let me know how the shock works out in the low volume setting. With the lower leverage of the MKiii I wonder how it plays out.

Thanks for the detailed post.

Mr. P

[dante]

all of that beauty and you've still got a welded stem??

looks beautiful, now go get out and ride!!

[_hamilton]

Have you owned that hub for a while? Not having to worry about rear derailler damage is a big bonus. Nice pics.

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by Monte

Does the fork have travel adjustment?

No, the DT1.2 is fixed at 120mm. Since I never mess with travel adjustments while I'm out on a ride, I spent some time demoing MkIIIs trying to figure out what travel setting I wanted. The A-C height of this fork hit my sweet spot.

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by baycat

Fullsusser with a single speed? Sorry I am ignorant to what a speedhub is?

Click on the Speedhub link I included in the post. The Speedhub essentially covers the gear range of a 24 speed drivetrain, evenly spaced over 14 gears, with no external parts.

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by _hamilton

Have you owned that hub for a while?

Yeah, this is my original hub that I've owned since Fall of 2001. It's previously been installed on an '01 NRS and and '03 Hollowpoint. It's a luxury that fast became a necessity.

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by dante

all of that beauty and you've still got a welded stem??
...now go get out and ride!!

Welded stems are a sign of craftsmanship. Forged parts smack of mass-production. So there!

And hey, aren't the pock marks on the bottom of the chainstay indication enough that this bike already has a few miles on it? What gives? I though elevated chainstays were immune to chain slap! I demand warranty service!

I'll follow up in a few days with a more detailed ride report.

[MMcG]

Nice Job Nate - that definitely looks like it is a "Nate Specific Rig!"

Couple of questions if you don't mind.

1. Do you regret removing the paint from the rear chainstay? Unique, but it looks like it was A LOT of work.

2. Was there a reason behind the white rims? Were you going for an overall white, black, silver type of design with the wheel build?

3. What is that tire combination you are running?

That White Brothers fork looks super nice on that bike - looks so solid and stiff - and it sounds like it is super nice in terms of plushness and perfomance huh? Very cool.

Oh yeah and did you see the new Niner 29er FS prototype yet?? Could that be your next bike, if a dw-link 29er never sees the light of day??

Cheers,

Mark

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by MMcG

1. Do you regret removing the paint from the rear chainstay? Unique, but it looks like it was A LOT of work.

2. Was there a reason behind the white rims? Were you going for an overall white, black, silver type of design with the wheel build?

3. What is that tire combination you are running?

That White Brothers fork looks super nice on that bike - looks so solid and stiff - and it sounds like it is super nice in terms of plushness and perfomance huh? Very cool.

Oh yeah and did you see the new Niner 29er FS prototype yet?? Could that be your next bike, if a dw-link 29er never sees the light of day??

Thanks Mark!

1. My only regret is the extra time it took. I began losing my patience towards the end and could have spent a little more time polishing and given a bit more care to the clearcoat application, but I am pleased with the outcome.

2. White rims? Just because. I wanted something different. My wife nixed yellow. Red didn't appeal to me. Burnt orange would have been cool but I couldn't find it. As it turned out, white matches the frame graphics very nicely, yes?

3. That's a WTB Mutanoraptor 2.4 in front and a (don't laugh) Continental Traction Pro 2.0 in the rear. The Conti is a great tire for where I ride but it's already obvious I need to replace it with something a bit wider and sturdier for this bike.

I'm really stoked about this fork, it's exactly what I wanted for this build. White Brothers does all their manufacturing in-house in Colorado and as a result, I was able to custom order the fork to include the air spring and an aluminum steerer (normally coil & steel).

That new Niner is incredible and the linkage smells of a dw clone -- it'll be very interesting to read the initial ride reports.

[dante]

Originally Posted by Speedub.Nate

Welded stems are a sign of craftsmanship. Forged parts smack of mass-production. So there!

And hey, aren't the pock marks on the bottom of the chainstay indication enough that this bike already has a few miles on it? What gives? I though elevated chainstays were immune to chain slap! I demand warranty service!

I'll follow up in a few days with a more detailed ride report.

Hmmm, you might want to wait a few days to see if you get any of the following "warranty" issues:

Flat tire
Worn grip
Taco'd wheel (11months after buying the bike)
Snapped chain
Derailleur in spokes
cross-threaded bb (which you removed and were trying to put back in)
Shifter doesn't shift "right".
etc.

Our CS guys love to hear these stories, and will do their utmost to get you a full brand new bike to help you out. did I hear you have some chain slap? new rear triangle is on the way, you'll have to strip it again yourself though.

[0gre]

Hey, I've been trying to find out more info about setting up the Speedhub on a FS bike for a while. Your post from '03 was just the thing. Now all I have to do is convice the wife the I need a $1,300 rear wheel. The whole never have to buy a DR again angle should help.

[CDtofer]

Nate,
That build in awesome on so many levels. One, its a great new bike - and unlike any other I have seen. Two, way to mod it out - a Speedhub, polishing the rear traingle, full run cables. Three, nice use of parts that you already had, thanks for reminding me I dont need all new parts to have a new ride!

Good things come to those who wait. Way to take your time and do it right. ENJOY

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by 0gre

Hey, I've been trying to find out more info about setting up the Speedhub on a FS bike for a while. Your post from '03 was just the thing. Now all I have to do is convice the wife the I need a $1,300 rear wheel. The whole never have to buy a DR again angle should help.

I hear ya -- it's a lot of dough to choke up. It took me two years to make the leap into my first Speedhub. After that, hub #2 (on my Buzz Bomb) and #3 (on my wife's Mount Vision) were relatively simple decisions. None of mine cost anywhere near $1300, though, and I've offset the purchase price of two of them by selling off the brand new drivetrain parts the hubs were replacing.

I did a cost breakdown before buying the first hub -- the money I needed to spend vs. what I anticipated not spending on new cassettes, chains, rings and derailleurs.

What I didn't anticipate was that I would have multiple new derailleur drivetrains to sell off to help offset that cost over the years -- the entire drivetrain (cassettes, cranks, derailleurs, rear wheels & shifters) from my '01 NRS, my '03 Hollowpoint, and this '05 MkIII were all "freebies".

Francis or somebody was nice enough to put those old photos back up. They had disappeared for a few months after the old MTBR photo server was taken off-line. Saved me a lot of trouble re-shooting all that stuff. Glad they were of help, because they were a last minute addition to my post!

[Gregg K]

I love unique and cool stuff. You have me hooked. It's almost exactly what I would want in my next bike.

Thanks for the inspiration Nate.

[Jan R]

Hay Speed you definatly did it up right once again. your 03 was an awesome build but the 05 MK is really a sweet looking ride the wheels and the fork definatly do it and I like what you did with the swingarm. nice blend of the colors and the polishing. It really looks nice. Need to get it on the cover of a magazine because it has alot of bling bling to it.And I beleive you have earned the right. Its been worth the wait to be able to see the final build pics Ive been waiting for something like 9 or 10 months to see it. Now I hope it rides as good as it looks to which Im sure it does with the parts spec that you picked and the front through axle and hud are really a sweet looking set up and i can imagine that its flex free in the front end and the ad shock also looks great on there I sure would like to get one for my o4 HP. Keep it up. You are the Man.
RIDE ON
ROCK AND ROOT
Jan R

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by Jan R

...with the parts spec that you picked and the front through axle and hud are really a sweet looking set up and i can imagine that its flex free in the front end and the ad shock also looks great on there...

Jan, yeah, that about sums it up -- my first impression formed after just a few minutes on the trail was, Damn this this is stiff -- and I mean that in the "flex free" sense.

In my original review of the '03 Hollowpoint which I posted here on MTBR, my one knock against the bike was that I could sense some lateral frame flex under the bike in off camber situations. It wasn't enough to bother me or affect the ride -- just an observation.

On this build, there's a lot to attribute the extra stiffness to.

The White Brothers forks have long had a reputation of being some of the stiffest available. White was the original user of 32mm stanchions. They use that really beefy machined crown. The lowers are well engineered in how they engage the arch. The 20mm TA is pure bonus.

Dave Weagle of course made mention of the "8x increase in stiffness" of the MkIII dw-link over the original Hollowpoint design, and while I'm not sure how to quantify an "8x increase", I'm sure that is largely responsible for what I'm feeling.

And lastly, these wheels are absolutely the best I've ever built. And I'm not necessarily crediting the Sapim CX-Ray spokes, but I am crediting all the care and time I put into this build because it was such a pain in the ass that I went above and beyond what I normally do before I call a wheel "done" and throw it on a bike. The tension is as perfect and as close to even as was possible for me to achieve (with the over-reliance on a Park tension meter). I hope I didn't just jinx my next ride

The end result is that this bike just plain feels sure and solid underneath me.

[Moo Shoo Pork]

Speedhub,

Just one word....Awesome! Your MKIII looks awesome and I bet it rides great. Great to see you have the skills to do that customized of a build. Your the "Jesse James" (of West Coast Choppers fame) of Iron Horse.

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by Moo Shoo Pork

You're the "Jesse James" of Iron Horse.

Nawww... that fool cuts and welds shit; I just assembeled a pile of parts, paint by numbers style.

But thanks for the kudos -- this was the funnest build yet.

[artnshel]

I have to say, you've made awesome catalog of posts with great info and pictures.
Nice job!

[slaw]

Fantastic job and your photography really does justice to the work you have put in. Excellent information on all the aspects of the build. Now, get out there and enjoy the ride.

[patineto]

Nate the quality of your work is stelar only rival by the quality of you posting and pictures.

thanks for showing us how is done


Ricardo old time lover of speedhubs

[_dw]

Originally Posted by patineto

Nate the quality of your work is stelar only rival by the quality of you posting and pictures.

thanks for showing us how is done


Ricardo old time lover of speedhubs

This is right up your alley huh Ricardo!

[Speedub.Nate]

Originally Posted by patineto

Ricardo old time lover of speedhubs

Thanks Ricardo!

I shouldn't admit it in, of all threads, this one, but my Speedhub-outfitted 29" hardtail is sitting here literally covered by a layer of dried mud while my MkIII is sitting out the wet weather in generally pristine condition. I hope I'm not spoiling it!

There's something so appealing about the simplicity of a hardtail and a muck-proof transmission when the trails get thick 'n nasty.

However, I do want to get a MkIII follow-up posted, including a review. Thanks for the reminder!

[monkei]

If you get the chance post some pics of the speedhub on the 29" hardtail please.

I gotta confess, I dont remember how I stumbled upon this thread, but I've staring at it constantly as I've been building my ti hardtail project (many months now). I ended up getting a white bros dt 1.2 with steel steertube and springs for $150. I was wondering if you ever weighed your fork with the air springs and al steertube, if so, whats the number? dont exactly remember but i think mines somewhere around 4-5lbs.

I have a chris king ti headset lined up for installation with the fork, my saint hub, and a hopey as soon as i can afford one. I'm going to attempt the full length cabling, but it could be a mother trying to get through ti cable eyes, even with carbide. also, where did you find the "specialized" braided jagwire? I think it would look really kickass against the satin darker grey unfinished titanium of my frame.

I'm got the saint rear derailleur (through 12mm axle) and crankset and I'm gonna stick with that til i can afford a $1300 hub. I know you're all about the straight chainline but I really would like to try the rohloff with 2 chainrings and a bashguard, hell maybe even three. From a machinists perspective, thats some beautiful manufacturing. How much does it weigh with tensioner?

Thats an awesome rig you've constructed. I really dig the frame color. Some well selected parts as well. Let us all know how it rides when you've gotten some good trail time in.

[Speedub.Nate]

monkei, this thread is pretty old and the MkIII **sniff** is no longer with me. I parted it out that same summer to chase down a 29" full suspension. I miss my dw-link, but wanted the big wheels even more.

The fork weighed in at 4 lb 5 oz., with an uncut aluminum steerer, air springs & 20mm mounts.

The Specialized housing came from the Specialized website. I just checked, and don't see it listed there. Jagwire made it for them, and it's probably still available in some form or another, but I don't see it listed on JagwireUSA.com or aebike.com (which features the full QBP catalog).

A Speedhub adds about 1.5 lbs over a full XT setup. Check out the weight worksheet I posted to this thread: http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=251738

I don't know how much capacity a Rohloff tensioner can take up, so I'm not so sure about you running a front derailleur. I think you would lose valuable chain tenaion in the smaller chainring(s), leading to the chain derailing and extra chain slap. Honestly, the gear range of the Speedhub duplicates that of a 24 speed drivetrain, which is more than enough range for most purposes.

For photos of my hardtail, search the forums for Van Dessel Buzz Bomb, or my recent posts about Halo Freedom Disc rims, or check out my photo gallery.

[Gondo]

First off nice build. I like how you went for function over bling bling factor. Like Avid Mechanicals over a hydraulic setup for bling factor. Also the speedhub over XTR just to show off the name. Also how you saved your cranks.

First off why do you ride Ironhorse? Of all the brands and top frames out there like SantaCruz, Jamis, Yeti, Litespeed, etc... why IronHorse? Comming form a bike guru like yourself I'd like to know your view on frames.

Secondly what pedals did you use? Did you ever try the eggbeaters? I have SHimano SPD and want to switch to eggbeaters. I find the Shimanos dangerous.

[Speedub.Nate]

Gondo,

Very easy question to answer. Iron Horse has been an outstanding company. Product manager Todd Seplavy has always been very accessible via email & phone, and on the message boards here, on HCOR.net, and RideMonkey. Same can be said for suspension designer Dave Weagle.

Iron Horse teaming up with Dave Weagle back in '02 was a genius move. That, combined with some great bikes (the 03 Hollowpoint I bought back then, the MkIII, the Azure my wife rides, and on and on) have really stepped things up a notch and got the company some well deserved attention from riders.

You commented already on my "common sense" build. I feel the same way about a bike frame: I'm not blinded by brand consciousness, and am much more impressed with the technical merits of something I put my money into. And their value to $$$ ratio is high. I'm not saying it's THE way to build a bike, just MY approach to building one.

Anyhow, Iron Horse is using a technically superior suspension system, has great customer service, and a very personable presence online. The companies you mention don't, and I'm not particularly enamored with any of their suspension designs.

For now, Iron Horse's biggest fault is their lack of a entry in the 29" market -- a full suspension bike, at that. So I stopped complaining / begging / whining and did what I had to do.

The pedals are SPD-M535s. I've been on them since '96 (in fact, just picked up a barely used pair as spares -- they're still out there on eBay). They're a little more durable than Shimano's current offering, and work about as well -- though not as great in the mud clearing department as the whole 520/540/959 series.

I have nothing against Egg Beaters or the other systems out there, but I've got Shimano SPDs on my street bikes as well, and want to maintain cleat compatibility. I'm at the point where any change in pedal system would get pricey, so I'm sticking with what I've got.