29er's at NORBA Finals

toddre · 08-28-2005

Following is what I saw at Mt Snow concerning 29ers....
....
....
....
........
....
....
Well that's about it. There was really a POOR showing up there.
OK there a two 29ers I saw..an older paragon and a kinda cool dos niner w/ a lefty fork.
Fisher tent and Zap couldn't tell me a thing about the Race Day...Zap gave me a wierd look like "you don't want to know" when I asked him.
Kenda said Karma's are still on the boat. They told me that two months ago
That's it for the 2 1/2 days I was there

Guitar Ted · 08-28-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by toddre

Fisher tent and Zap couldn't tell me a thing about the Race Day...Zap gave me a wierd look like "you don't want to know" when I asked him.

Pretty much the same response that my source at the Trek Show had last weekend. FisherGuy says it's coming. I think there is a problem that we are not aware of that may nix the whole deal, that's what I think.

~martini~ · 08-28-2005

How can it be problem? Its a fockin' single pivot bike! It's not like there high geometrics involved like w/a VPP bike....

I think you'd see more 29er's at events such as the 24worlds/events, Vapor 125, Cream puff, Leadville, etc...Seems as if the endurance guys get the 29" thing more than conventional racers.

benwitt11 · 08-28-2005

It's like the guy at the demo said Marty, "just keep the Race Day thing on the downlow for awhile." Yeah F-ing Right!!!

Guitar Ted · 08-28-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by ~martini~

How can it be problem? Its a fockin' single pivot bike! It's not like there high geometrics involved like w/a VPP bike....

I think you'd see more 29er's at events such as the 24worlds/events, Vapor 125, Cream puff, Leadville, etc...Seems as if the endurance guys get the 29" thing more than conventional racers.

That single pivot design is gonna be hard to pull off and still keep the racers it was intended for happy. There is that pesky seat tube thingy getting in the way!

I know Santa Cruz did it with their 26 inch wheels, and Fisher probably could pull it off using 26 inch wheels, but throw in that 29"er, and......well, I don't know. I'm not a suspension geek. By the way, has anybody ridden an Astrix Monk.....anybody? Similar design that seems to be AWOL in the "real world"

toddre · 08-28-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar Ted

By the way, has anybody ridden an Astrix Monk.....anybody? Similar design that seems to be AWOL in the "real world"

When ever I "complain" about lack of FS 29er's, everyone always lists the the Monk, I've only seen one in the BTI catalog, last time I checked, Astrix didn't even have it on their website

benwitt11 · 08-28-2005

Fisher's been doing it already with the Cake single pivot design with five inches of travel with essentially no probles for a few years now. It can't be that much harder to do with 29" wheels.

2:1 · 08-28-2005

...since seeing the pix of the 26" race day, I'm noticing that the 05-06 Fisher FS line is looking a lot like the 03-04 Santa Cruz line. Although it might not be Santa Cruz' issue, perhaps Fishers' people want a more distinctive brand identity, rather than, "for freeride, you can choose the 2003 Bullit with Fisher stickers, or for XC, you can choose a Superlight with Fisher stickers. And we also have something that's kind of like a Heckler with Fisher stickers." Just a guess.

toddre · 08-28-2005

No one on the fisher team even races a FS, it seems chambers spends most of his time on a hardtail

Niner Bikes · 08-28-2005

Hopefully the Fisher Team will begin to race their design more and more and provide exposure that 29er's are race competitive.

Steve
Niner Bikes

Cloxxki · 08-28-2005

Why won't anybody but surly smack a bend in na seat tube for short stays?
Front derailers?

Guitar Ted · 08-28-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloxxki

Why won't anybody but surly smack a bend in na seat tube for short stays?
Front derailers?

I'm guessing that because the material of choice is aluminum, and that there is a lot of stress on the seat tube in that design anyway, that a bend would be a bad idea. Front derailluer could be an e-type mount, to solve any problem there, but I think a top swing design would work fine.

Cloxxki · 08-28-2005

Weren't GT bikes aluminum? Huge bends!

I was afraid of FD cage-tire rub. It sortof happens on my hrdtails too. May need wider chainlines.

Nat · 08-28-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cloxxki

Weren't GT bikes aluminum? Huge bends!

I was afraid of FD cage-tire rub. It sortof happens on my hrdtails too. May need wider chainlines.

Don't most aluminum bikes have bends (e.g., chainstays, seatstays)? Is it hard to engineer a strong, curved aluminum tube?

Fisher had a hardtail (I'm pretty sure it was aluminum) years ago with a curved seat tube that was similar to the Karate Monkey's.

Guitar Ted · 08-28-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

Don't most aluminum bikes have bends (e.g., chainstays, seatstays)? Is it hard to engineer a strong, curved aluminum tube?

Fisher had a hardtail (I'm pretty sure it was aluminum) years ago with a curved seat tube that was similar to the Karate Monkey's.

......not so much with a huge loadbearing single pivot. I seem to remember several Trek Fuels with busted seat tubes due to the stresses of the suspension design, and without the added complexity of a bent tube.

That Fisher you're thinking of.....the HooKoo E Koo, was CroMo, and also had elevated chainstays. They busted like twigs!

Cloxxki · 08-28-2005

My VooDoo Canzo FS has a part where 2 thinner tubes do the job of keeping seatpost and BB apart. The damper goes in between them.

VERVE 29er · 08-28-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niner Bikes

Ellseworth has a patent on using a single shaft that comes from the pivot and connects to the shock mount. Santa Cruz has to pay to use this design on the Heckler, Haro has to pay Ellseworth for their single pivot design.

Steve

Is that the only way he can make a living in the bike industry any more??? He got Turner on a design that he has been using for years. I guess if your product works, you better get a patent before E does..

Cloxxki · 08-28-2005

If you have something that works, and publish on it, no-one else in the world will be able to patent it anymore. At least that's how it's supposed to be according to patent law as I understand it.

gfisher · 08-28-2005

I wanted a 29" bike as close to the geometry as the 26" steel hardtail I had ridden for years this way I could build up a second bike just like the bike I was riding the most in every way except the wheel size. I could ride the bikes back to back I used a heart rate monitor and rode at close to the same heart rate. The 29er was faster and made me feel better.

The one dimension I was going to have a problem with was the 29er was the chainstay. I commission a bike made by Steve Potts, drawing by Mark Slate, I had it made to my Geometry. The seat tube needed to be curved to clear the tire. We built the frame, installed a crankset and front der. we sawed off the der. cage and wielded it back on at the right angle. It shifted great; the chainstays on this bike are 16.5" long. We made two frames, one got built up, and I rode it and raced it. I repainted it to Paul Smith colors and he has it now, the other frame is sitting in the garage.

Bigwheel · 08-28-2005

G, Mark showed me that design years ago, but I never was aware that Steve actually built a couple of them, cool. Send me the other and I'll make a SS out of it for my kid as I bet those short of stays would make a good one!

Nat · 08-28-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar Ted

That Fisher you're thinking of.....the HooKoo E Koo, was CroMo, and also had elevated chainstays. They busted like twigs!

Where did they break?

POG · 08-28-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Guitar Ted

......not so much with a huge loadbearing single pivot. I seem to remember several Trek Fuels with busted seat tubes due to the stresses of the suspension design, and without the added complexity of a bent tube.

That Fisher you're thinking of.....the HooKoo E Koo, was CroMo, and also had elevated chainstays. They busted like twigs!

that had the elevated stays and curved seat tube. Maybe the Hoo Koo E Koo did too but I actually owned a Montare and the downtube cracked near where the stays were welded to the seat tube. It was my first "high end" mountain bike and I upgraded my warranty replacement to a Procaliber which I still have today (but without a rear derailleur hanger). Now I have a Mt. Tam 29er and will soon (I hope) be riding a Castellano Silk Ti 29er built by Steve Potts which has a curved seat tube!

Guitar Ted · 08-28-2005

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nat

Where did they break?

Usually where the driveside chainstay met the seat tube