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First Off Road Bike - Which Surly??

2K views 13 replies 11 participants last post by  Matterhorn 
#1 ·
Afternoon All

I'm looking to buy an off road machine to complete my stable and have been going round in circles on which bike to get. Need a bit of help from the guys in the know!

Things to take in to consideration

Weather and riding conditions - I live in the east of England so don't really get extreme weather conditions where I live. Will be riding on road, farm and woodland tracks, a bit of single track, occasional beach riding, bike packing and general running around. Conditions generally wet all year round (this is the UK!) and little to no snow.

Current stable - Steamroller for commuting and long distance riding on road fixed wheel, 26" wheeled LHT built as a heavy duty touring machine for commuting, load hauling, camping and grocery runs. 2" tyres for mostly road riding and a bit of comedy off roading. 700cc LHT lightweight set up for long distance brevet road riding.

Initial thoughts were Pugsley. With a mix of different wheels and tyres could probably do all of the riding I want to do and have the option of full fat.

But then again…

Troll - Rabbit Holes with Dirt Wizards, regular mtb tyres second set of 700cc road wheels?? Preferable over the 1x1 because of all the extra braze ons

ECR - full on bike packing rig, 3" tyres and A.N. other set of tyres / wheels if going on road

Ogre - in my eyes not as versatile as the others mainly due to tyre clearance.

So………….what to do??
 
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#2 ·
Looking at your stable, you are already aware that no one bike does everything really well and you already have the road touring, speed commuting and general hop on bikes staring you in the face.

It does sound like you want to go full fat. Only one of the bikes you listed allows you to do that.

The ECR with Dually rims fitted will accept either 3.0 Knards or 2.0 touring tyres. It does have a lower B.B but its not really an issue, even less so if you only fit the 2.0 when going on the road/light track. However it is more a "sit in" cross country style ride. Not an out an out trail bike like perhaps a Krampus.

The Ogre you have dismissed yourself.

I am currently building an ECR as a rough road, cross country commuter just to express my bias.
 
#3 ·
Sounds like your road needs are well-covered. I love the Troll because I know it can run fine on my street/commuting/touring tires and also be very comfortable off-road, but I don't have a stable of bikes to choose from. I have my main bike, and my back-up bike, and that's it, so being able to switch from road to off-road use with a wheel change is nice. For you, I'd forget all these 2nd, road wheelset options for your mountain bike. Get the most capable off-road bike you can, and leave the road riding for the rest of the stable.

That said, the Troll can probably roll out with any of the wheelsets you currently have, so that might be worth something.

Still, with all your on-road needs covered, I'd be tempted to get the Pug. If you really want to try fat, it's the one that will work. But if you really envision it mostly as a 29er, I don't know. Read up on some KramPug threads and see it sounds good to you.

And really, even though you dismiss the Ogre, I really just think of it as a 29er Troll, and if I didn't want to pack my bike up in an airline-legal case, I would probably be looking that direction. Although because you want fatter tire options, it seems like the ECR might be a better fit in the 29er category.

Basically if you really want the versatility of several wheelset options, Troll probably wins.

But if you really want to try out a fat bike, Pugsley is the only contender.

But if you don't envision spending most of your time in fat-bike mode, then maybe you really want a 29er. I probably wouldn't buy a Pug to be used primarily as a 29er. I'd go Ogre, ECR, or maybe Krampus.

There. Instead of narrowing it down, I added an option. Hope that helps. :)

And, at any rate, I've only ridden two Surlys: my Troll and my Trucker (and the Ogre on a short test ride). And my off road experience is minimal. But I do spend an unhealthy amount of time obsessing over Surly options. My reasons for choosing the Troll were mainly about packing convenience and versatility, and not because I thought it was Surly's best, off-road option.
 
#8 ·
Sounds like your road needs are well-covered. I love the Troll because I know it can run fine on my street/commuting/touring tires and also be very comfortable off-road, but I don't have a stable of bikes to choose from. I have my main bike, and my back-up bike, and that's it, so being able to switch from road to off-road use with a wheel change is nice. For you, I'd forget all these 2nd, road wheelset options for your mountain bike. Get the most capable off-road bike you can, and leave the road riding for the rest of the stable.

That said, the Troll can probably roll out with any of the wheelsets you currently have, so that might be worth something.

Still, with all your on-road needs covered, I'd be tempted to get the Pug. If you really want to try fat, it's the one that will work. But if you really envision it mostly as a 29er, I don't know. Read up on some KramPug threads and see it sounds good to you.

And really, even though you dismiss the Ogre, I really just think of it as a 29er Troll, and if I didn't want to pack my bike up in an airline-legal case, I would probably be looking that direction. Although because you want fatter tire options, it seems like the ECR might be a better fit in the 29er category.

Basically if you really want the versatility of several wheelset options, Troll probably wins.

But if you really want to try out a fat bike, Pugsley is the only contender.

But if you don't envision spending most of your time in fat-bike mode, then maybe you really want a 29er. I probably wouldn't buy a Pug to be used primarily as a 29er. I'd go Ogre, ECR, or maybe Krampus.

There. Instead of narrowing it down, I added an option. Hope that helps. :)

And, at any rate, I've only ridden two Surlys: my Troll and my Trucker (and the Ogre on a short test ride). And my off road experience is minimal. But I do spend an unhealthy amount of time obsessing over Surly options. My reasons for choosing the Troll were mainly about packing convenience and versatility, and not because I thought it was Surly's best, off-road option.
Somehow, your post reminds me of Vizzini's lines in the Battle of Wits from The Princess Bride. :cool:
 
#5 ·
Knew you'd say that!

Thinking about my original question I guess I'm looking for a bit of guidance on what would be the best bike for terrain I will be riding. Would a Pug be overkill? Do I really need a full fat for general UK trail riding? Then again if I don't go Pug will I regret it?
This is defintely my last bike purchase for a while (said that one before!) so want to get it right.
 
#6 ·
A 1x1 fitted with Dirt Wizards and wide rims.

I've got fatbikes, but I reckon the 1x1 is the best all rounder. (I won't try to convince you, but take a look through the 1x1 threads.)

You're in England so you'll probably be riding on trails and singletrack rather than following deer tracks in the mountains across bogs so a full fat is probably unnecessary, and the 1x1 can do it all. My 1x1 is a '98 model, and it wasn't getting much use the last few years because there were newer shinier bikes around, but the arrival of the plus size tyres changed the whole game. Dirt wizards transform the 1x1 into a first choice bike for trails & singletrack.
 
#9 ·
Pugsley were recently on sale. If you can still find one at or near the sales price $900USD. Get one. You will have fun.

I have a Wednesday, which is a fun bike also. It has a more modern geometry with slacker head tube, longer top tube, etc.

I bought the Wednesday because I never owned a fat bike, and I thought if I did not like it, it wasn't to expense and I could always sell it. But, it turned out I liked fat biking off road.

Pugsley SS would probably be fun off road also.
 
#10 ·
You can't go wrong with any of the bikes recommended thus far. If it were me, and I had your stable of steamroller and LHTs, I'd either go with a Krampus or an Ice Cream Truck. That would give you an off road bike you could also do some bike packing with and would be very different from what you already have.
 
#11 ·
Thanks for the replies. Can someone confirm that the Troll is the full on braze on version of the 1X1? I know Ogre is the same geo as the KM but with thicker tubing. Is this the case with Troll / 1x1? Seriously considering a semi fat troll to future proof my build options but may go 1X1 if it's more fun.
Also anyone confirm the rumour on this thread http://forums.mtbr.com/surly/changes-surly-1002904.html regarding the demise of the Pug? If it's true I may have to get myself a collector's item while I still can……..
I tell you Surly are a PITA for making such a good selection of frames!
 
#13 ·
Thanks for the replies. Can someone confirm that the Troll is the full on braze on version of the 1X1? I know Ogre is the same geo as the KM but with thicker tubing. Is this the case with Troll / 1x1? Seriously considering a semi fat troll to future proof my build options but may go 1X1 if it's more fun.
I knew the Troll and 1x1 had almost the same tire clearance, but I had not heard that they were essentially the same bike. Easy enough to check, though.

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They look the same to me.

Also anyone confirm the rumour on this thread http://forums.mtbr.com/surly/changes-surly-1002904.html regarding the demise of the Pug? If it's true I may have to get myself a collector's item while I still can……..
I tell you Surly are a PITA for making such a good selection of frames!
That's a thread of rumors, wishes, and best guesses. I doubt you'll get anything resembling confirmation of anything on there until Surly makes their own announcements.
 
#12 ·
Unless you live in an area that demands the fat tire, I think that the troll covers most peoples needs for a mtb. Chubby tire clearance, multiple wheel sizes, rim or disc, single speed, geared, internal gear hub, suspension, rigid, drop bars, flat bars, alt bars, racks, soft bags. . . . you get the idea.

That being said if you think you have an aggressive riding style and are wanting to 'shred teh gnar' then it might not be the bike for you. In that case an insigator or krampus would be a better option.

Have fun playing in the dirt!
 
#14 ·
I'll vote ECR. Mine has been unstoppable in any terrain and is a super comfy ride. Even with the 3 in tires it still rides fine on the occasional section of pavement. No complaints.

Once I load it up for a bikepacking trip it really shines. Just trust the bike and hold on and the ECR will handle some pretty tough terrain. I'll be taking mine, happily, to ride the Colorado Trail next summer. The CT is nice mix of rough singletrack, dirt roads, and a touch of pavement.

Or just get a Pugsley and 2 wheelsets. That would be great too.
 
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