V Brakes For Agressive XC?? Post PICS!!!

[kanfierce]

Hi guys, anyone still using vbrakes for XC applications?
I am using the very first XT V Brakes, Jagwire cables and Koolstop pads...
was thinking of upgrading to disc brakes but dun wanna spend too much on new wheels and fork...
Please advise!

[antnygee]

get some disc brakes and break them in, you will wonder why you used v-brakes for so long.

[RustyIron]

My first bike, which ended up as a spare bike, had v-brakes. After riding disc brakes, I hated the v-brakes and couldn't have a good time riding with them. You have to start braking TWICE as far out as you do with discs.

I had spare disc brakes and spare wheels, but the frame didn't have the mounting tabs. So last week I bought a cheapie HT frame and built it up with all good parts that were on the old bike or just laying around. Tonight was the first ride, and there is no comparison. Just upgrade and don't look back.

[bucksaw87]

i still am...no pics though. i do have koolstop pads on though, the black formula.

[Kona0197]

I'm using V Brakes on my Cannondale. They are more powerful then my old Hayes Soles.

(And yes I can lock the front wheel up.)

[Joel.]

From my experience it is not the power of the disks that makes them so much better it is the feel you get. You can float down hills gently applying the brakes with one finger, instead of hanging on and devoting alot of attention to braking you can think more about the road ahead.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

I run XTR V's on two of my bikes, J3's on another, and BB7's on the other. I can litterally say I like how the V's perform on a dry, XC ride. Once you throw rain or wet into the ride then I'd much rather be on one of my bikes with the disk brakes.

[smilinsteve]

I just switched from V brakes to Hayes stroker discs about 4 months ago.
I waited for so long because I felt no need to change, since the V brakes worked fine, and the change is expensive like you said (new wheels too).
I still say V brakes work fine. Sure discs are different and discs are nice, but there is a weight penalty associated with them also. I used V brakes in AZ and CO for a long time, and had no problems. If I was in a flatter area, I would definitely question the weight penalty vs. performance advantage. Even in CO, for my type of riding, I could go either way, but will stick with my discs (since they are cooler and and more in style and I paid so much money for them!)

If discs were old school and V brakes were the new invention, people would probably say its worth the little bit of extra force you need at the brake lever to get the weight savings, simplicity, easy set up, quietness, and reliability of V brakes.

[keen]

If discs were old school and V brakes were the new invention, people would probably say its worth the little bit of extra force you need at the brake lever to get the weight savings, simplicity, easy set up, quietness, and reliability of V brakes

Or maybe not

[jonnybiggs69]

I read all the problems people have with seemingly every disc system out there:
squealing, gobbling, pad rub, dot fluid eating carbon handlebars or paint, pad rub, mineral oil heating and brake power fading, rotors bent, squealing, adjustment problems, rebleeding, replacing cylinders, pad rub, squealing, vibration...did I mention pad rub and squealing?
and it dampens my enthusiasm to spend a couple of grand on a decent disc set-up every time. I was amped this afternon to get a set of Formula Oro's after reading the reviews on mtbr, and then I came here to the forums and bammo, out came the dramas and I was back on my V-Pony all over again.

It's a conundrum, that's for sure

[smilinsteve]

Originally Posted by jonnybiggs69

I read all the problems people have with seemingly every disc system out there:
squealing, gobbling, pad rub, dot fluid eating carbon handlebars or paint, pad rub, mineral oil heating and brake power fading, rotors bent, squealing, adjustment problems, rebleeding, replacing cylinders, pad rub, squealing, vibration...did I mention pad rub and squealing?
and it dampens my enthusiasm to spend a couple of grand on a decent disc set-up every time. I was amped this afternon to get a set of Formula Oro's after reading the reviews on mtbr, and then I came here to the forums and bammo, out came the dramas and I was back on my V-Pony all over again.

It's a conundrum, that's for sure

Exactly. It's hard to be a V brake guy and not feel a little "brake envy" as your stuff is cheaper and older and lower tech than what others have. But if you can forget all that, you can be happy knowing what you already know, which is that when you go ride, your brakes do whatever you need them to do and you have no doubt that they won't let you down. So, quit thinking about parts and go ride!

[boomn]

Originally Posted by jonnybiggs69

I read all the problems people have with seemingly every disc system out there:
squealing, gobbling, pad rub, dot fluid eating carbon handlebars or paint, pad rub, mineral oil heating and brake power fading, rotors bent, squealing, adjustment problems, rebleeding, replacing cylinders, pad rub, squealing, vibration...did I mention pad rub and squealing?
and it dampens my enthusiasm to spend a couple of grand on a decent disc set-up every time. I was amped this afternon to get a set of Formula Oro's after reading the reviews on mtbr, and then I came here to the forums and bammo, out came the dramas and I was back on my V-Pony all over again.

It's a conundrum, that's for sure

but there are other possible twists to the riddle as well:

• nobody is using v-brakes anymore, hence the forum being full of problems only about disc brakes.
• people seek out this brake forum to post complaints and find solutions only because they have problems. There are tons of other users on mtbr who probably never post in this section because all they would have to say is "my disc brakes are still working well". The same was probably true when v-brakes were king, but hopefully you can understand why the tone of this forum can be so negative. Just look at the drivetrain forum... based on all the complaints you would think that derailleurs, shifters and chains are all unreliable junk, and yet so many thousands of people use theirs reliably day in and day out.
• disc brake problems often aren't harder to fix, but they often do require a bit more knowledge of the system. V-brake's could be finicky too, but the solutions were more common knowledge and there wasn't as much to be talked about.

This is meant to encourage you to just go for it and don't worry so much about all the talk. To take what smilinsteve said in the opposite direction: "quit thinking about parts and go ride" because if you do have problems we can always help you.

[bucksaw87]

i should add, for me at least, that i'm totally comfortable tweaking v-brakes to my liking. i've been doing it since 4th grade...so, that's where all my experience lies. i'm somewhat of a fair-weather cyclist, so i'm probably not gonna bike in conditions so wet that they'd be detrimental to my v-brakes (unless i'm caught in a flash rain/snowstorm). and, i don't do regular DH biking...based on those, i don't really need discs. so, i'm of the opinion "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

[Rasper]

Originally Posted by bucksaw87

i should add, for me at least, that i'm totally comfortable tweaking v-brakes to my liking. i've been doing it since 4th grade...so, that's where all my experience lies. i'm somewhat of a fair-weather cyclist, so i'm probably not gonna bike in conditions so wet that they'd be detrimental to my v-brakes (unless i'm caught in a flash rain/snowstorm). and, i don't do regular DH biking...based on those, i don't really need discs. so, i'm of the opinion "if it ain't broke, don't fix it!"

Im pretty much the same way, I just upgraded to avid single digits this year (levers, v's and pads) I must say over my old stock brakes there awesome! There is more than enough power to go around. Granted if tis wet bla bla bla, I dont ride when its wet as it ruins our trails here in a hurry.

I must admit disks feel pretty damn nice. I have some sram sealed cabes and there pretty smooth.

Will I ever upgrade? Maybe in the future when i get a new bike that has them, untill then ill stick with my v's.

[Rasper]

You also have to take into account other factors than brakes. Do your tires have the means to supply the traction your brakes are calling for? What about the surface you ride on? The trails im on I have no problem locking up both wheels with a quickness. Also all the braking power in the world do sent matter if your tires cant maintain traction with the surface.

[bidaci]

I went with disc front and V brake rear. Frame isn't disc ready but fork was. So I slapped on a BB7 and have the best of both worlds.

[cth978]

Originally Posted by Kona0197

I'm using V Brakes on my Cannondale. They are more powerful then my old Hayes Soles.

(And yes I can lock the front wheel up.)

hey kona why dont you post some pics up of your bike?? considering that you have had about a million of them since i first started seeing you troll on this site.

[Kona0197]

nobody is using v-brakes anymore, hence the forum being full of problems only about disc brakes.

Not true. Many people including the pros still use V-Brakes.

Cth978: Please leave me alone. All I did was sale my bike and bought a Cannondale. And I am NO troll.

[boomn]

Originally Posted by Kona0197

Not true. Many people including the pros still use V-Brakes.

obviously yes, there are people using them. In fact, I don't doubt that there are actually more people in the world using rim brakes than disc brakes. But in the context of mountain biking enthusiasts I doubt that holds true, and more specifically in the context of this forum (which is the context I was talking about) the vast majority of posts are about disc brakes.

Not many pros left with them either. I don't like to make a point without really knowing what I'm saying, so I just went though a pile of race pictures from the Beijing Olympics XC race last summer. I couldn't find a single bike with v-brakes.

[251]

My XC hardtail has v-brakes (Paul's Motolite, Love Levers, Kool Stop pads, Mavic ceramic wheels) and I am happy with them. I'm considering switching to discs, mostly due to some recent wheel damage, but I'm still not convinced that I would be happy with the change.

[Kona0197]

Where can I pick up some Paul's brakes and levers?

[bucksaw87]

Originally Posted by Kona0197

Where can I pick up some Paul's brakes and levers?

levers
brakes
i know dans comp is frowned upon in the BMX world, but i've never had issues with 'em. i actually had a friend in high school who was sponsored by dan's for vert BMX or something.

[Kona0197]

Thank you.

[boomn]

Originally Posted by Kona0197

Where can I pick up some Paul's brakes and levers?

Universal Cycles is a very reputable Oregon shop and they have an ongoing 15% coupon for orders over $300. I just tested it out and the total including shipping came to $280

[Kona0197]

I could probably just drive up there. Portland is about one hour away.

[jonnybiggs69]

Love the first picture of the Eriksen, mmmh - What a beautiful frame!

Smilin Steve & Boomn - you both make excellent and valid points - not that they help me make my decision

[traffic002]

In the dry, XC riding, discs don't have quite a big advantage. A good hydro will still have better feel and modulation with no cables moving back and forth along a housing.

However, ride in the wet. And V-brakes are like drop in modulation and power. Act more like an on-off switch with what little braking force is left.

Discs? They perform the same as dry.

This, more than suspension designs and such, is why I bought a modern bike to replace my old Stumpjumper.

[Kona0197]

I rode in the rain today and noticed a slight performance drop in power from my V's. I'll probably go to discs when I can.

[BLOWNDFIZ]

Originally Posted by traffic002

Discs? They perform the same as dry.

True...As long as there is sufficient traction between the ground and tires.

[literocola]

Vee's have plenty of bite. Ill take Vee's over Maggie HS-33's and Avid BB7's. The new BB7's suck compared to the old silver ones.

[Roadsters]

Today I looked at the first few pages of this forum and just read the titles of the threads. Then I got on the phone and ordered a pair of Avid Ultimate V-brakes.

[Jeepnut22]

Originally Posted by Roadsters

Today I looked at the first few pages of this forum and just read the titles of the threads. Then I got on the phone and ordered a pair of Avid Ultimate V-brakes.

Dang, those are not cheap. Especially the levers for them...

[jahkneefive]

For XC use(NOT AM OR DH) the only advantage discs offer is a little better modulation (though you can definitely dial in a set of Vs to get acceptable modulation) and better bite in mud/water. Disadvantages inclue a little heavier, expensive to switch, and getting pads/caliper/rims to work well together is sometimes touchy.

For Vs I would recommend avid single digits levers (no real mechanical advantage other than easier adjustability), koolstop pads (toooooons more grip), and jagwire ripcords (no compression/friction is a good thing especially with the added finger strength required for Vs). In order of importance/biggest difference:

1. Koolstop pads
2. Jagwire Ripcords
3. Single Digit levers

[boomn]

Originally Posted by jahkneefive

For XC use(NOT AM OR DH) the only advantage discs offer is a little better modulation (though you can definitely dial in a set of Vs to get acceptable modulation) and better bite in mud/water. Disadvantages inclue a little heavier, expensive to switch, and getting pads/caliper/rims to work well together is sometimes touchy.

For Vs I would recommend avid single digits levers (no real mechanical advantage other than easier adjustability), koolstop pads (toooooons more grip), and jagwire ripcords (no compression/friction is a good thing especially with the added finger strength required for Vs). In order of importance/biggest difference:

1. Koolstop pads
2. Jagwire Ripcords
3. Single Digit levers

That depends whose "XC" we're talking about Around here (northern California) XC riding often involves descents of at least 1000ft, and upgrading to discs made a big difference for me. Also, good modulation (like I have now) isn't just a nicety... it is the difference between controlled braking through a loose, steep downhill turn and wheels that lock up and send you skidding off the side of the trail.

I do admire the simplicity of v-brakes and I think they are a great low cost option. I wouldn't mind having a beater bike with v's, but I think I would eventually get sucked right back in by the performance of discs

[stevesbike]

more and more the "choice" is forced by frame manufacturers - of the 3 new hardtail frames I'm looking at none are v-brake compatible, so a new frame means new wheels and switching to discs...

[drexlerkm]

Originally Posted by bucksaw87

i know dans comp is frowned upon in the BMX world, but i've never had issues with 'em. i actually had a friend in high school who was sponsored by dan's for vert BMX or something.

mini-hi-jack:

whats the deal with frowning on dans comp?

as far as V vs. Disc-

I have one bike with V (avid 2.0s with red kool-stops, color is important), one with Disc. V are scary in the rain (after getting used to disc) My discs (juicy 5) aren't perfect, and have taken some minor caliper adjustment to correct rub. Once broken in, they're a phenomenal improvement, and just one more thing to get used to. I have not had to bleed them yet, although I want to buy the kit and learn to avoid running to LBS every time I have a problem. Have not baked my pads yet.. just good ol fashioned riding for break-in.

[blumarvel]

Originally Posted by Roadsters

Today I looked at the first few pages of this forum and just read the titles of the threads. Then I got on the phone and ordered a pair of Avid Ultimate V-brakes.

I'm with you! And, quite frankly, don't give a damn if discs are better. Tried em, don't like em, don't need em.

[bucksaw87]

Originally Posted by drexlerkm

mini-hi-jack:

whats the deal with frowning on dans comp?

as far as V vs. Disc-

I have one bike with V (avid 2.0s with red kool-stops, color is important), one with Disc. V are scary in the rain (after getting used to disc) My discs (juicy 5) aren't perfect, and have taken some minor caliper adjustment to correct rub. Once broken in, they're a phenomenal improvement, and just one more thing to get used to. I have not had to bleed them yet, although I want to buy the kit and learn to avoid running to LBS every time I have a problem. Have not baked my pads yet.. just good ol fashioned riding for break-in.

the details escape me at the moment...if i remember right, it was basically the whole "online vs. LBS" debate, except for dan's comp is universally known and therefore "not as cool" or something.

[drexlerkm]

Originally Posted by bucksaw87

the details escape me at the moment...if i remember right, it was basically the whole "online vs. LBS" debate, except for dan's comp is universally known and therefore "not as cool" or something.

I see. Yeah, I'd rather pay more for a part a chain LBS has to order and make me wait for.

/hi-jack

V brakes are the wicked

[Slurry]

I like how my disc brakes feel, at least when they work properly. Discs are very temperamental and sensitive compared to v-brakes, especially when setting them up.

That being said, there's nothing like effortless 1 finger braking in the wet, muddy, Pacific Northwest winters.

[AlexJK]

i've heard that discs dissipate heat better... which i've found to be completely false, i NEVER had ANY fade from my V-brakes, Pads never got warm, rim never got warm. and i would push them to the absolute limit.

I like discs better though, better modulation, and they actually work when coated in adobe mud (which turns rim brakes into nothing but a noisemaker)

[Damitletsride!]

One big point....
If you buckle your wheel out riding discs brakes will still be running strong and, and it wont make a difference to the braking. But if you're runnging V's you'll be screwed.

[smilinsteve]

Originally Posted by jahkneefive

For XC use(NOT AM OR DH) the only advantage discs offer is a little better modulation (though you can definitely dial in a set of Vs to get acceptable modulation) and better bite in mud/water. Disadvantages inclue a little heavier, expensive to switch, and getting pads/caliper/rims to work well together is sometimes touchy.

For Vs I would recommend avid single digits levers (no real mechanical advantage other than easier adjustability), koolstop pads (toooooons more grip), and jagwire ripcords (no compression/friction is a good thing especially with the added finger strength required for Vs). In order of importance/biggest difference:

1. Koolstop pads
2. Jagwire Ripcords
3. Single Digit levers

Other disadvantages you didn't mention include requiring a heavier hub, and the additional weight of hub and rotor is rotating weight.

The advantages of discs are real, but minor for most XC. I ride in dry climates, so the wet performance might the one big thing that is important to some, but not me. There has never been a downhill or a stopping situation my v-brakes couldn't handle, so the question is not whether I need discs, but just if the nice feel, cool looks, extra power etc, are worth the downsides mentioned above. I switched to discs recently and like them but could go back to V brakes and be perfectly happy too.
The main reason I switched to discs was just because I upgraded my fork, and V brake compatible forks are hard to find these days.

[surlyboy]

well if you buckled your wheel while out riding you would be screwed no matter what, I understand your point but I dont think thats a reason to switch to disc brakes. If the wheel is that bad it's not like you could be flyin down the hills anyway

[Slurry]

i would also much rather true a wheel that got knocked out of true than try and bend a warped/bent rotor back into shape.

[bucksaw87]

Originally Posted by Slurry

i would also much rather true a wheel that got knocked out of true than try and bend a warped/bent rotor back into shape.

but, a new rotor is what, $20 or so? i gotta imagine having a rotor trued is probably more than that.

[AlexJK]

rotor truing is easy... and if you bend it then it won't cost you a fortune (lest you be a weight weenie with ashima AIs or alligator serration rotors and the like)

[BeaverTail]

My brother just installed Avid Single Digit 7's on his Trek 4300 and with the proper tweaking of the tension screws, they offer ridiculous braking power. Possibly better than my BB5

[BeaverTail]

Originally Posted by literocola

[IMG] The new BB7's suck compared to the old silver ones.

Why do you say that?

[AlexJK]

Originally Posted by BeaverTail

My brother just installed Avid Single Digit 7's on his Trek 4300 and with the proper tweaking of the tension screws, they offer ridiculous braking power. Possibly better than my BB5

oh they should be more powerfull than your BB5s

[traffic002]

Yeah. Whatever.

Maybe you need to spend some time dialing in your BB5s then. I just did and they are much better in modulation and power than my XT v-brakes. And once wet, there is not even the remote comparison. Even with Salmon pads, doesn't even come close to the modulation and stopping power of properly adjusted discs.

[AlexJK]

oh i love my BB5s, i have them dialed so that they put out just as much power as some hydraulic discs, they are powerful. But i also have v-brakes on another bike, and in terms of sheer stopping power in the right conditions, they dominate on most discs (but with little modulation)

however, i prefer discs by far, modulation is far superior and they stop in all conditions

[BeaverTail]

what is modulation of a brake?

[boomn]

Originally Posted by BeaverTail

what is modulation of a brake?

modulation is how well you can control the brake from going from zero to full power or anywhere in between that you want.

A brake with poor modulation will often feel grabby. Or you might notice that you skid easily because it is hard to find that narrow window of hard braking just before your wheel locks

[jrod22]

i switched to bb7s and honestly i liked the feel of Vs a bit more. they seemed to have more grip/bite, but i do like the discs cause they look awesome and i am more confident in all weather conditions knowing that i've got em

[traffic002]

Originally Posted by BeaverTail

what is modulation of a brake?

Basically modulate the force of your brakes.

While we all talk about stopping power, there really isn't a whole lot of places where we go from full tilt to a full stop. Usually a switch back and the end of a downhill straight section is where you'd stopping power would be critical.

Everywhere else, modulation is key. It's the ability to control or feather your braking force.

Coming down a steep incline with loose terrain, you need to have your brakes holding just enough force before your front tires let go. In this scenario, all out brake force is not needed, but rather the ability to apply some percentage of braking force. Even to go back and forth from say 40% force to 45% force as you dance on that line of traction.

Partial braking force is very useful to help set your balance as you turn into a corner or negotiate technical sections. I often times use it to help time when I hit an obstacle or when I turn in. Again, very light pressures and braking forces involved. But very useful on technical single track.

[chamberlen]

I keep seeing the v-brakes vs. disk-brakes debate reemerging all the time.

Has anyone actually done research about the stopping power, typical stopping distance across a range of surfaces including the interactive effects of tire pressure, tread design, suspension travel and other relevant factors?

I apologize if such research findings are common knowledge but i did not take the time to look it up and i think we will all benefit if somebody can point out available evidence.

[smilinsteve]

Originally Posted by chamberlen

I keep seeing the v-brakes vs. disk-brakes debate reemerging all the time.

Have anyone actually done research about the stopping power, typical stopping distance across a range of surfaces including the interactive effects of tire pressure, tread design, suspension travel and other relevant factors?

I apologize if such research findings are common knowledge but i did not take the time to look it up and i think we will all benefit if somebody can point out available evidence.

I don't know if there is research specifically for that, but I think if you are just talking simple stopping power, subjective testing of both systems makes it pretty obvious that discs have more potential in the power department (not to say that a bad disc system will out stop a good v brake).
the question really becomes whether or not the disadvantages of disc brakes still make them attractive over simpler, lighter v brakes. For many people the answer seems to be yes, but some of that has to be attributed to fashion and trends.

[chamberlen]

delete double post

[jrod22]

i honestly never had any trouble stopping with my Vs, i was pretty experienced with them so i had them adjusted just the way i liked them and the only time i resented them was in some weather they would squeal and in some conditions(wet+sand/grit) they didn't work perfectly.

now my bb7s i am a noob at adjusting them and the front one squeals pretty bad and the rear one feels weird(like the pads are hitting every cutout in the disc)

so i'm a bit disappointed but like i said, i know for a fact that the discs are more capable and that knowledge is pretty reassuring while riding

[jksu2000]

just went from v brakes f/r to disc front (bb7) and kept the rear v brake (xtr).

got a new fork (r7) which actually had v brake bosses so rode with vbrakes f/r but wanted to try tubeless and disc for better braking/control on long descents. i'm in so cal... i did get brake "fade" with the vbrakes, or at least i'd make a weird noise after prolonged braking so i'd have to let off...

gained 1lb in weight but i love the modulation and no concern of splashing through streams weakening my braking.

jksu

[BeaverTail]

Originally Posted by jrod22

i honestly never had any trouble stopping with my Vs, i was pretty experienced with them so i had them adjusted just the way i liked them and the only time i resented them was in some weather they would squeal and in some conditions(wet+sand/grit) they didn't work perfectly.

now my bb7s i am a noob at adjusting them and the front one squeals pretty bad and the rear one feels weird(like the pads are hitting every cutout in the disc)

so i'm a bit disappointed but like i said, i know for a fact that the discs are more capable and that knowledge is pretty reassuring while riding

That grinding and squealing may go away after a few rides. Go on a big hill and ride the brakes down and maybe they will get better.

[smilinsteve]

You shouldn't gain a pound from adding 1 BB7 and1 tubeless. What kind of tubeless set up did you go to?

[GTscoob]

I've got a few Qs on here since I'm about to be running a BB7 in the front but still retaining a V brake in the back. I'm currently running Avid Single Digit 5s F/R but looking to upgrade the rear V-brake to match the performance of the BB7. Is a Single Digit 7 really that much of an upgrade over a SD5? And how would an XT-R v-brake compare to the SD7?

And you're not going to convince me to run a rear disc since my bike is a SS and I flip flop the backwheel pretty often. Takes a minute to readjust the pads on the rear to make up for .5" shorter/longer chainstay.

[jksu2000]

sorry, you're right, it was about 11oz. front wheel was used bontrager racelite i got off ebay....replacing a chris king/valiant. used the same ritchey speedmax pro tire but put in some stans sealant and it held.

at the same time, i went from vintage 8spd xtr brifters meant for cantis that i used those converter things to work w/v's...... to sram attack/avid ti levers. i wanted to try gripshift and have real v-brake levers and the avids are nice to have the adjustability to dial in the feel of the front bb7 and rear xtr v brake...

jksu

Originally Posted by smilinsteve

You shouldn't gain a pound from adding 1 BB7 and1 tubeless. What kind of tubeless set up did you go to?

[archer]

I had trouble stopping with V brakes when I went swamp crawling and the rim got mud and gravel in the pads.

I went from Shimano LX V brakes to Avid BB7s. I had to swap the rims from Bontrager Race with a radial spoked front to Sun Rhynos and add a Trek disc brake adapter for the frame.

The V brakes are great as long as they are clean. Disc brakes tend to stay cleaner in the muck. I think discs are better for the kind of riding I do. I'm not going back. My most recent bike came with hydos. I'm not sure I'm sold on them but they do grow on you a bit.

My mech is still reccomending V brakes for people who just ride smooth desert conditions.

[LightMiner]

People say modulation is better with disc, on an older bike I have Avid top of the line from the era, and on the levers is a little red knob that you can twist to make change the angle that force is applied through the lever to either accentuate modulation or pure force. I have the front set to 'modulation' and the rear to 2/3rds of the way to 'force'. If you do some hard stops it is a real change, not just marketing hype. Big difference.

If you have ceramic rims, and the top of the line Paul or Avid V-brakes and do Cross Country, and given that they are completely silent 98% of the time (I can't stand loud bikes, I'm there to enjoy the solitude of the wilderness as part of the whole thing), I have to say I'm confused that they aren't used more. I heard from one person that there are already so many options in general (standardization being a good thing) and the industry at some point just decided to move on, even though for the weight, dollars, and effectiveness one can argue quite strongly they still make tons of sense.

I often do XC/Trail rides with drops of 1500 - 2000 feet straight (Henry Coe/ECDM both in Northern CA) on that bike and they do just fine... I've smelled a burning smell here and there at the bottom - but I have with disc as well! I wish I could show the setup to more people, but no one really cares . It really does feel as good or better than most disc setups I've ridden. And for all of the modulation potential many disc setups are setup to lockup the wheels extremely quickly, quite the opposite of the overall claim. Very few of my friends bikes are set up with decent modulation.

Very important as some have noted that they are installed very well, that you use the right pads, that they are top of the line Vs, and ceramic rims make a ton of difference. (Make sure to get ceramic-rated pads if so, otherwise they will get used up very quickly! Ceramic rims=sandpaper.)

Oh - the one thing I will say in favor of disc brakes beyond the really obvious improvement in wet/sloppy conditions is that it allows rim manufacturers to do some really cool stuff with the rims that they couldn't do if you have to use them to stop. See DT Tricon, for example. Now that is cool, makes total sense from a structural engineering standpoint, I might get them on next bike.

[canascrews]

So, does the ceramic coating make them work while wet ? I have a set of pauls that work great and are silent but end up putting on the BB7's every winter . I like the pauls much better than the disc brakes .

[DSDuke]

Wow, it must really suck to only ride XC trails that don't have enough DH or chunk to warrant disc brakes. V-brakes, flat bars and HT's for life, right??

You can't really compare mechanical disc brakes like Avid BB7's to any hydraulic disc brake system. I wouldn't doubt that a lot of V-brakes are just as powerful as mech discs. There's no way any V-brake is as powerful or offers as good modulation as hydro discs.

It was said that a "decent" disc brake upgrade would run you "a couple thousand dollars." That's absolutely ridiculous. A couple thousand would get you the absolute best wheels and brakes on the market and you would still have a few hundred left over.

You can get a decent brake set and wheelset for under $500. You can get a near top of the line/above average set and wheels for under a thousand.

And you weight weenie clowns do realize that the weight savings is all but negligible right? The Avid Single Digit Ultimate V-Brake was mentioned--at 182 grams, not including levers--roughly 80 grams minimum. The weight savings verses some disc offerings is but a few ounces total weight, front and rear. The Formula R1 disc brake weighs in at 270 grams, plus lightweight rotors at 76 grams. So you're talking 262 grams verses 346 grams? If you think you can feel 6 ounces of extra weight you're nuts!

You guys should all set up some sort of "V-brake pride" parade and celebrate!!

[BeaverTail]

When I was test riding bikes I tried the more expensive bikes with hydros and readily preferred mechanical disc brakes. The hydros all felt like mush, the mechanicals BB5's were all press hard enough and skid.

Im sure its possible the hydros were not set up perfectly, that I can not know. But mechanical disc brakes are very valuable,

[LightMiner]

Ceramic does make them work much better in the wet, but you really can't beat the braking surface not getting wet in the first place! But, yes, they are significantly better.

[veloreality]

using them with xtr BL-M950 levers and xtr cables. work like a dream, they dont bother me in wet conditions enough to want disc.