Is Genesis Geometry wrong for me?

SNIPER · 3 Weeks Ago

I have an 07 Fisher HKEK I cant seem to get used to.

The bike is a 19.5" L and I stand 6'3" and weight in the low 180s
The bike is completely stock. My uses are mainly road riding with occasional light XC

This is my first bike so maybe I made a mistake buying this one???
I dont know how to describe it but the bike is hard to keep controlled on a straight line.
When Im hucking I can feel the bike flex and the steering tends to get unsteady.

At slow speeds forget any precision in control.
The bike also feels long and big, not nimble like I would want.

Is the Fisher geometry not right for me or do I just need to tweak some things?
I like the bike ok, and if these problems are due to other components and not the frame I would like to figure this out so I can fix the problem and enjoy riding.

I notice the disc brakes rub as I shift my weight forward and backward while riding, but the spokes seem tight and the wheels are true...could it be the wheels?

If its the frame, would a Sette Phantom fix my problems?

norcalruckus · 3 Weeks Ago

I think it is a good XC ride, but if you are truly hucking on it, you probably bought the wrong bike.

SNIPER · 3 Weeks Ago

Would replacing only the frame bringing all the parts from the GF bike fix this problem?

scottzg · 3 Weeks Ago

I'm 6'3, i would have opted for the XL, but it would have been close. The frame isn't flexy for a 180lb rider. Someone who is using it for xc and road isn't going to huck it to the point where it's an issue, not even close.

Genesis bikes are long and want to go fast. They can be steered from the hips, and are agile when ridden like that, and feel really good bombing downhill. Not the greatest for tight slow speed stuff, but everything is a trade off. I don't think geometry is your problem, they're not really thaaaat radically different from anything else on the market, and they handle very well.

So i conclude the problem is you. How much air do you run in the tires? What bike did you have before, how long ago was that? How fast do you have the rebound set in the fork? Have you played with the saddle position, bar rotation, cockpit control location? Are you aware that XC bikes have their strengths and weaknesses, and will never handle like a different type of bike?

I would change out the turnkey damper for a moco one in the fork, but i suspect you'd hardly notice the difference. It's not the problem.

SNIPER · 3 Weeks Ago

It is fast and stable, and I notice too that I can steer with my hips, but I wouldn't call it agile. The bike steer feels awkward to me. I suspect its the rake and trail on this frame making the steering feel awkward.
I have looked the bike over, and it definitely flexes. If sitting on the bike with one side of the handlebars leaning against a wall if I barely lean towards the wall the bike flexes. I have duplicated this with my hands to see how much pressure it takes. It doesn't seem to take much. Sitting in the saddle when accelerating I feel the flex.

I have played with the seat positioning and wish I could slide the seat forward another 1"-2"
I tend to ride with the fork locked out. I will probably go rigid in the future.

I run Michelin Transworld Citys @ ~60 PSI
Last bike was a Haro promaster from 1988ish

Im interested in how XC oriented geometry differs from road and racing geometry.

I would like something with faster lighter steering with a nimble feel but still stable as a road conversion...if that exists

Potato_boy · 3 Weeks Ago

Bar and stem might help. My current bike came with a long riser bar and I switched it out to a short flat bar to mimic my old treks faster steering.

scottzg · 3 Weeks Ago

I think you might be upset about your date's eye color while not realizing she's a potato.

Which is to say... you're looking too hard at things that don't really matter.

SNIPER · 2 Weeks Ago

scottzg, could you explain what you mean?

To simplify: The bikes steering feels lazy, and the bike feels too big and clumsy for my tastes.
Im guessing that cant be dialed out and a new frame with different geometry is what is needed to correct these traits?

dnlwthrn · 2 Weeks Ago

For the riding you describe, I think maybe you should be on a CX bike...

Also, your overall height doesn't necessarily dictate what size frame you should be on. How long your legs are vs how long your torso/arms are is more important. Have you tried any smaller frames, by chance? I would suggest, before spending money on anything, demoing or test-riding a similar bike with different geometry or a smaller size. The most important dimension on a frame (for figuring sizing) is the ETT length.

HTH

Dremer03 · 2 Weeks Ago

Dont huck a Sette Phantom, its a Carbon XC Race frame not a jumping bike. Get a Sette Shadow if your want to jump something.

JimC. · 2 Weeks Ago

hit your bike store and borrow a few old stems (shorter) and try them out. You need to nail the cockpit (butt on saddle, hands on bars) and get that right. And take your tires down to 35lbs. DH/FR will run as low as 20lbs for descents, and inflate to ~40 maximum for the climbs.

Try some fine tuning before you do anything else. Disc rub happens, just check everything for tightness. Flex I cannot comment on, but work on the steering 1st. If a shorter stem is going to make you cramped, your frame is likely too small. Your current ETT is 24.7" which a long, so try shortening it up just a bit.

Jim

AZ.MTNS · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPER

scottzg, could you explain what you mean?

To simplify: The bikes steering feels lazy, and the bike feels too big and clumsy for my tastes.
Im guessing that cant be dialed out and a new frame with different geometry is what is needed to correct these traits?

Fisher geometry should make the bike feel nimble in the steering , turning in quickly and light feel to it . It really sounds like you want road bike geometry and might be happier with a cross bike .

Dremer03 · 2 Weeks Ago

Quote:

Originally Posted by SNIPER

The bikes steering feels lazy, and the bike feels too big and clumsy for my tastes.
Im guessing that cant be dialed out and a new frame with different geometry is what is needed to correct these traits?

Measure your handlebar. The wider it is the more lazy it will feel because it will be more stable feeling. I run a 23 inch handle bar, that pretty much as snappy as you want it. A shorter stem can also help loosen up the steering. 2 brothers I ride with both ride GF bikes I believe they both have Genesis Geo. One is a 2001 or so MT Tam and the other is about the same year Big Sur and they dont have any issues. The MT Tam is used as a Race Bike.

SNIPER · 2 Weeks Ago

Thanks for the replies guys.

I might have my terminology messed up...
By hucking I mean sitting in the saddle riding swiftly on pavement then quickly powering on the cranks (still in the saddle).

Both great points about the shorter stem and narrow bars. My bars are wide and the stem is long. I have been sitting on the bike messing with my riding position and guesstimating what changes would be right and I have concluded a shorter stem, flatter and narrower bar would make things feel more natural.

What is ETT?

The more I mess around the more I think my wheels are flexing.

Im going to ride a few bikes in the next few days.

Should I look for anything in particular in the ride of different bikes...should it just fit (will I know immediately)?

When I bought my GF I also tested Trek, Giant, Specialized GT and Cannondale.
From what I remember the Giant felt to cramped but turned sharp and crisp, the Trek specialized and GT were nothing special and I dont remember any details... the Cannondale felt most natural with crisp steering and a balanced in control feel.
Does this say something about the geometry I'm looking for?

Dremer03 · 2 Weeks Ago

If your not jumping or dropping then your not hucking. If you dont then the Phantom is a good bike for XC.

dnlwthrn · 2 Weeks Ago

ETT is the effective top tube length. I.e. the distance from your seatpost (at the seat) to the steerer tube (at the stem). Also important to consider is the total cockpit length (ETT plus stem length). If that isn't right, you will struggle with being comfortable. You said at one point that you wished the saddle was 1-2 in further forward, and that's what makes me think you're too stretched out.

The first thing to do is to make sure your saddle is the right height (usually suggested that, when sitting on the saddle w/ your heel on the pedal, your leg is fully extended but not overextended) and also that it is in the right position fore/aft (many people use the KOPS method, kneecap over pedal spindle). Once those two points are set, then you play with the stem length and bar width to get your cockpit set just right. Of course, if the frame is too big/too small, you'll end up with a really short/long stem and the steering will feel messed up.

Personally, I rode an 18.5 Fisher HT frame for 10 years (bought in '98). I'm 6'1" 220lbs, and I found it to fit quite well. I upgraded to a Santa Cruz Blur, and found that even with the L frame I was a little cramped. I went to a longer stem and wider bars and it helped a bunch... Horses for courses and all that stuff.

SNIPER · 2 Weeks Ago

Thanks dnlwthrn, that clarifies many questions I had.

Can a stem be flipped? I have a 7degree rise stem, can I flip it to make it -7degrees?
Can bars be cut without damaging the structural integrity?

scottzg · 2 Weeks Ago

I think you'd be happier on a hybrid bike. There's no way that bike is too big for you. Thinking its too big and wanting the bars closer = want a more upright bike. Riding a mtn bike for street duty kinda sucks. Worrying about flex on the street is ridiculous- ever been on a road bike?I think you were shopping for a marin point reyes or a specialized globe or something like that.

Don't swap frames, or expect some other similar frame to be very different, all these recreational xc bikes handle 97% the same, someone who hasn't bought a bike in 20 years isn't going to have a basis for comparison.

I predict you won't be thrilled with any component change.

SNIPER · 2 Weeks Ago

Something like this is what I had in mind:

Something light and stiff for road riding, and something that can do some off-roading with a switch of wheels.
You dont think a setup like this would be ok for 75%/25% road/trail?

Would I better off with a road bike? They don't look comfortable

Dremer03 · 2 Weeks Ago

I think you should stick with a HT mountain bike, and run some low profile MTB tires like http://www.nashbar.com/bikes//Produc...2_208644_-1___

SNIPER · 2 Weeks Ago

One thing I didnt mention is my riding never consists of mixed riding...Im either road riding for distance or trail riding for fun.

Dremer03 · 2 Weeks Ago

If your going to be distance riding on a road, something more than just commuting then I would get a Road bike. It doesnt have to be expensive you can get a geared road bike for around 300.00+ http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...ington1_IX.htm my pick for a low budget http://www.bikesdirect.com/products/...iragesport.htm

AZ.MTNS · 2 Weeks Ago

How about a 29er , with as spare set wheels for the road ?

SNIPER · 2 Weeks Ago

Went for a ride yesterday and paid close attention to many details.

What I learned is that my balance feels shifted too far back. When I scooted forward on the saddle about an inch the bike responded better to my steering input and my center of gravity felt more stable.

I also noticed griping the bars closer together made a big improvement over the handling and I felt much more in control of the bike. I only need to loose about 1.5" on either side.

The saddle is as far forward as it can go however I need to get a new saddle so hopefully I can mount it more forward.
New bars and wheels will be ordered soon too.

Dremer03 · 2 Weeks Ago

glad to help. Did you measure your current bar? I think a lot of bars come in at 26 inches, so you will go down to a 23 inch which is what I ride.

SNIPER · 2 Weeks Ago

I haven't measured yet, but I just got back from another ride and I can confirm if I ride with my hands pulled in a little with my hands over the brake levers with my pinky finger operating the brakes I feel like a guided missile.

I was messing around with positioning and its amazing how from unbalanced to super precise a little adjustment in hand positioning is making for me and the ride. I found myself zooming around runners using tight lines to see how precise I could handle the bike, and it is definitely the problem/solution here.

Thank you everyone for your help.

zebrahum · 2 Weeks Ago

Cut your bars in increments, don't just hack it down to 23", take it a half inch at a time. Bar width will depend on your shoulder width, if you have more broad shoulders than Dremer, then a 23" bar will be just as unpleasant to control as the wider ones. Personally, I like to run wide bars with a short stem. Try to get your hands on a 50 or 60mm stem and just give it a try. I love Genesis geo and have never once thought it to be sluggish.

diamond car care · 2 Weeks Ago

It took my wife and I a few rides to get comfortable enough to enjoy the technology of the G2 frame. We both ride 08 Marlins with disc upgrades.Hers is the WSD model cause she is tiny

I am six foot at 220 lbs and enjoy the strength and quick response from frame and steering.An idea that was told to me was the importance of hand (grip) placement.Your local bike shop pro can advise you on whether or not your hands are where they need to be!