Flats convertees - any knee pain?

[tald]

Hi, after starting to get the hang of flat pedals on drops, J hops and general technical rides, I have recently started to use them for everything on my RFX, including long aerobic rides with lots of climbing. The stickiness of the 510 shoes goes a long way to make flats more efficient. (And I really dont like the idea of switching pedals constantly.)

But for the first time in lots of years I have started to feel pain at the front of my knee.

Has anyone here experienced this? Just an issue of time to build the muscles differently? Potentially an issue of lack of float vs the clipless pedals I am used to?
Bad idea overall to use flats for long climby rides?

Thanks for any info

[anvil_den]

Funny, clipless actually gave me more knee issues on longer rides. With flats I can change the position of where the foot rest on the pedal and that helps to not stress out the knees. But in a "fixed" position with clipless u cant do much.

Fore of foot on the pedal produces more stress on the knee and uses more of the lower thigh muscle.
Resting more on the arch of foot requires the use of more glute and more of the overall thigh muscles upfront...

Try shifting the foot around to see if the pain can be alleviated.

[FM]

Last year was the first year I rode flats exclusively, with 3k' climbing on typical rides and some some 5k' days. Prior to that I was 50/50 for a few years, going back to SPD's for bigger climbing days. With SPD's I did hit some issues with patellar tendonitis over the few previous years. Last year I had absolutely no knee problems with flats. I definitely run my seat lower with flats, not only due to the pedals and shoes being thinner, but I also found it more comfortable to have a bit more bend in my knee at full extension. This definitely took some getting used to, since with flats I liked pretty much full extension.

[ZIT30/34]

I transitioned this year from Speed Play Frogs to Grind Flats and Sam Hill 5/10 shoes. I had some knee pain shortly after the transition.

I adjusted seat height and the pain went away.

The knee pain did come back on a 5 day trip in Colorado where we climbed a lot every day with 3 of the 5 days above timber line. The knee pain came back. I noticed that when I am climbing out of the saddle with the flats, the pins hold my feet almost locked to the pedals and dont allow my heels to swing some as I swing the bike. This I think transmits some torque to the knee area. I started walking the grades I couldnt ride in the saddle and the knee pain went away.

At home after the trip I spun the Frogs back on and went climbing and sure enough, when out of the saddle my heels will some times graze the swing arm, on the same climbs with the Grind pedals and full pins my heels dont move at all.

I am now reducing the number of pins in each pedal and playing with the pin pattern.

Will post later with my results.

ZIT30/34

[clarkenstein]

less knee pain here. mine is in a different spot. i have IT band problems - its the outside part of the knee. ever since i went to flats i haven't had problems.

as a side note - i'm also having more fun on my bike for some reason.

[fat_weasel]

Could be the setup of your bike...for a while I was riding mainly flats and switching to clipless for one specific trail, and after a couple of months I realized that I needed a slightly different saddle position for each type of pedals to avoid knee pain. Specifically, with flats I needed to have the saddle lower and further back...I think that's because flat pedals engage different muscles than clipless.

[herbn]

There's some sort of balence in the universe the number of clipless and flat riders remains constant.I just swtched from flats after many(25) years. Well it may not stick ,i have switched before,a couple times. I clip in on the road(of course) ,and i started to use my disgarded atomic quick steps on my powercrank road bike,they were my last attempt at clipped in mtb'n,after really getting used to the pedals i gave them another shot offroad.It's sort of stuck(2 weeks and counting)it may sound cliche but i like the power to blast through certain rocky sections.Those thousands of miles of clipped in road miles and even a few hundred on powercranks where you totally work on the roundness of your pedal stroke, then to totally ignore that and ride flats offroad,just seemed a little off..

[krispy@go-ride.com]

I've gone back and forth many times over the years. While many people avoid clips because of the fear of knee damage i have found the opposite to be true.

I find that when i ride flats i move my feet around too much. Often my foot will be sitting at an angle when i go to grind out of a corner causing knee pain.

I really like how my fine tuned cleat angle keeps me in the right place, and my right leg swivels a touch throughout the stroke which the float in the pedal allows freely.

Use whatever works best for you!

[bankofdad]

I get knee pain sometimes from starting out a ride that begins with a long climb or pushing myself to hard for to long if I ease up on the pressure on the pedals it goes away if that does not work I raise the seat and that has worked,I use 5-10s and cb-5050 pedals

[leggatt]

I get numb knees now and again riding flats. Not so much on the clips. But the bikes are so different I chalk it up to small set up differences like saddle height seat tube angle etc. I ride my free-ride bike with flats and AM and XC with SPD. After a while it goes away.

[Ratt]

Same here, 5.10 + new pins in pedals = zero float and some knee pain on extended climbs. Spds have more float

[Garagemonkey]

Knee pain on 6-20 mile rides with flats for me as well. Doesn't happen with clipless.

For me it's foot position on the pedals. I noticed with the flats I tend to place my feet cocked on the pedal(s). The clipless keep my feet pointing straight ahead. I'm sure that's what's doing it for me.

[Lord Humongous]

I find that too much grip in a flat - shoe interface results in knee pain. I can't ride any of the high grip, tall pin pedals without causing trouble at the patella. I run the Shimano DX pedals which have the least grip of any pedal I have seen, (although it is consistent,) with the M90 shoes and my feet can float a little as I pedal somewhat like any quality clipless pedals. For me having some float is essential, but I have a lot of pronation when I walk and my crank arms are always rubbed bare from my heals hitting them.

[insanitylevel9]

i hate clipless i always get stuck in them. i ride flats peddles on all my bikes including my road bike. i like bmx peddles they have great grip and there tuff.

[Jim311]

I found that I was having to compensate for not being able to "pull" up on the pedals when I rode flats. I had to push down that much harder which I think is rough on the knees. I need to just drop to the granny when riding flats instead of a middle ring crank on everything like usual.