Need some advice re: Steel Hardtails

[JoeAverage]

Hello All,
Sorry if this has been covered previously, but can anyone out there give me some advice on the best steel hardtail to use as a do-it-all bike? I mainly ride Southern Ontario (GTA) singletrack. I need to get off my Santa Cruz Superlight as I am not really living up to the name. I'm around 215lbs and the flex is getting to be a little much.
I'm looking to go back to a steel hardtail because: a) I'm a luddite at heart, and b) I need to make the switch as cheaply as possible (hoping to sell the SL frame to help with the cost).
Any suggestions? I would love a Chromag Samurai, but can not deal with the price point. I'm looking at the Surly Instigator and have heard good things about the On One Inbred (no idea where to get one in Canada).
Your advice would be very much appreciated!
Cheers.

[langford]

Have you looked at Jamis Dragon's? I have a Thin Blue Line steel hardtail, I keep wavering between spending big bucks on it to update to disc brakes and lighter stuff or spend about the same money on a new Dragon. My younger riding buddies with full squish bikes are amazed I can keep up with them in the rough stufff with a steel hardtail + tubeless tires.

[lukey]

Originally Posted by JoeAverage

I'm looking at the Surly Instigator and have heard good things about the On One Inbred (no idea where to get one in Canada).
Your advice would be very much appreciated!
Cheers.

I think you can purchase On-One direct from their website.

How tall are you, and what sort of handling/trail-manners are you looking for?

The Instigator, Inbred and Samurai are all based around something like a 5" fork. They have an efficient-for-pedalling seat angle, and a front end which is designed around a slightly-longer-than-typical-XC fork. In the same class, there's the Ragley Blue Pig, Cove Handjob and the Transition Trans AM....and probably a lot of others. I think there are some useful "steel hardtail" threads in the All Mountain subforum if you search there.

No experience with any of these, but my very own Surly Instigator arrives tomorrow.

I'm pretty sure that all the above-mentioned frames would be aftermarket/custom builds. As in, they don't really seem to come as a spec'ed-out completely built-up bike. Is that the sort of thing you were looking for, or are you more interested in the idea of finding a fully kitted out bike? Are you keeping the Superlight complete to sell (this is a complete second bike) or are you merely replacing the frame (move all your parts over to the new frame, sell the other)?

Addendum:

Dialled Prince Albert
Evil Faction

[Enduramil]

DMR Trailstar LT, get as frame through Norco.

Chromag is blowing out the Stylus frames for $300 bucks. Small frames only though.
http://chromagbikesblog.blogspot.com...ree-hundy.html

[JoeAverage]

Thanks Lukey.
Unfortunately, I'm going to have to sell the SL frame to make this work. I'll hang my parts on the new hardtail. Your description of those three bikes sounds like exactly what I'm looking for.
I hadn't thought of the Jamis Dragon that langford mentioned (looks great, but the price may be a bit too steep). The Ragley Blue Pig looks kind of interesting, and the price is right. I think I'm still leaning toward the Surly, though. What made you go for the Instigator?

[saturnine]

azonic steelhead?

[LuMach]

Soma Groove

Never read a bad review about Soma Fab..

[lukey]

Originally Posted by JoeAverage

I think I'm still leaning toward the Surly, though. What made you go for the Instigator?

The Surly is going to be built burly for obstacles and more aggressive riding, and I'm really hoping to run it on the trails in the snow as well as other inclement conditions. For all this stuff, the Surly seems like a great choice.

The dropped top tube will be good for clearance, but especially if I'm thrown off in snow and sink deep in.

I hope the Surly has some winter bike potential. It's no Pugsley, but I hope it can extend my riding season as it takes a pretty wide tire. 26x2.7" or 24x3.0" I had 2.6" tires on a previous frame and they were fantastic in winter, so that was sort of my benchmark.

The angles and position are not too far off my XC bike...just enough to compensate for the long travel fork, but not so much that they will compromise climbing or be hard to adapt to as I switch over from the XC trail bike.

The Surly is a near-perfect pedalling position match with my other bike, which should make my knees happy. Fit is very similar.

I compared the Surly to the Inbred 456 and the Blue Pig as the other serious considerations. Very nice details and features on those frames. However, neither of those are currently in stock and I didn't feel like being patient for a couple of months...

[lukey]

Originally Posted by saturnine

azonic steelhead?

I owned this bike before. Mine was an '06 I think, and I believe (I hope so) they have updated the geometry. Great build and beefy frame, super versatile. Here's my take.

The '06 had a slack seat tube and a steep head tube. There were some "quirks": The bike was very bouncey on rough trail. Almost like the front end was "tripping" over small obstacles, roots and bumps. It wouldn't stick to the ground. The positional change from sitting to standing was like getting out of an easy chair. Hard to make a smooth transition to standing, you really had to jump way ahead of the saddle. The effective cockpit when standing was pretty small. To be in balance, I was always striking the stem, bars and shifters with my knees, especially on uphill pitches (you know...the kind of terrain you stand up on...).

Fun for level urban riding, drops and all that stuff,but so-so off-road on trails or on sloped ground...

[garage monster]

Sounds like you're looking for something pretty burly but for another angle you could look at a Fisher Ferrous. You might still find a 2009 kicking around somewhere and with the EBB, you can always go single if the spirit moves you.

[singlesprocket]

cro-mag all the way!!!!! sweet bike, proven in the mountains... if i ride a hardtail that's what i would get... though i would want a little bit more beef like the trl...

http://www.chromagbikes.com/frames_trl_2009.html

[garage monster]

Thanks for the link. Until you guys started talking about the bits, I'd never heard of Chromag before. Nice stuff and Canadian (I assume?) to boot!

[Nerdgirl]

Small Chromag Stylus for Xmas? I don't have a dirtjump bike in my quiver, and with Joyride having all those sweet jumps, you might not want to share yours...

[limba]

The 2010 Rocky Mountain Blizzard looks awesome. Mine is a 1997 and still going.

[bigwheelboy_490]

... don't forget to protect the tubes.

http://www.competitivecyclist.com/ro...350.359.0.html

[Enduramil]

Originally Posted by garage monster

Thanks for the link. Until you guys started talking about the bits, I'd never heard of Chromag before. Nice stuff and Canadian (I assume?) to boot!

This is the Stylus, there are many like it but this one is mine.

[Enduramil]

Originally Posted by garage monster

Thanks for the link. Until you guys started talking about the bits, I'd never heard of Chromag before. Nice stuff and Canadian (I assume?) to boot!

All the Chromag Porn you can want.

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=447244

[singlesprocket]

just added a cromag stylus to the quiver... got to have a back up when i break panther...

http://www.chromagbikes.com/frames_stylus_2009.html

[JoeAverage]

Originally Posted by singlesprocket

just added a cromag stylus to the quiver... got to have a back up when i break panther...

http://www.chromagbikes.com/frames_stylus_2009.html

I'm really jealous. Talked to the lbs and they recommended the Transition Trans AM for my price point. I think I'm going to go for it. They also mentioned that they had just sold a Stylus earlier today. Maybe we shop at the same place.

Thanks to everyone for the advice!

[saturnine]

Originally Posted by lukey

I owned this bike before. Mine was an '06 I think, and I believe (I hope so) they have updated the geometry. Great build and beefy frame, super versatile. Here's my take.

The '06 had a slack seat tube and a steep head tube. There were some "quirks": The bike was very bouncey on rough trail. Almost like the front end was "tripping" over small obstacles, roots and bumps. It wouldn't stick to the ground. The positional change from sitting to standing was like getting out of an easy chair. Hard to make a smooth transition to standing, you really had to jump way ahead of the saddle. The effective cockpit when standing was pretty small. To be in balance, I was always striking the stem, bars and shifters with my knees, especially on uphill pitches (you know...the kind of terrain you stand up on...).

Fun for level urban riding, drops and all that stuff,but so-so off-road on trails or on sloped ground...

the frame itself has changed (i have an '08). the head angle is pretty standard with a 140-160mm fork (+/- 69°). all the other geo is pretty much the same as the trans am depending on the size. it has iscg tabs and can take a 2.5" tire. i've had fun with mine on the trails when i've used it that way. it really is super versatile and can be had for $200-300 CAD shipped

[singlesprocket]

can't go wrong with trans am... bread really likes his in the shop.

Originally Posted by JoeAverage

I'm really jealous. Talked to the lbs and they recommended the Transition Trans AM for my price point. I think I'm going to go for it. They also mentioned that they had just sold a Stylus earlier today. Maybe we shop at the same place.

Thanks to everyone for the advice!

[garage monster]

This is a really sweet build. I don't think I'd change a thing. Even the colour is spot-on!

[saturnine]

that's hot

[tdotrider]

yeah smokin' build...

Is there an EBB on that frame? Also I've noticed now on a couple of bikes with SS cranks that they're not using a bashguard, any particular reason? I figured it wouldn't be too hard to destroy a chain with a good rock strike..

[veteran_youth]

Originally Posted by tdotrider

Is there an EBB on that frame? Also I've noticed now on a couple of bikes with SS cranks that they're not using a bashguard, any particular reason? I figured it wouldn't be too hard to destroy a chain with a good rock strike..

No, the bike has really tiny rear facing horizontal dropouts, with a bolt on hanger adaptor for gears (SC [edit:<2008] Chameleon style).

Really, unless you are straight up trialsin, it is pretty hard to smash a 32t on anything. And even then, the chain will protect the teeth of the chainring (which is itself so similar in size to the spider that it is difficult to bend out of shape). So it is usually redundant.*


*I look forward to posting tomorrow about how I somehow destroyed my 32t single ring w/o bash.

[singlesprocket]

Originally Posted by veteran_youth

*I look forward to posting tomorrow about how I somehow destroyed my 32t single ring w/o bash.

ohhh oh you just jinxed yourself...

[tdotrider]

I run a 22/32/bash setup on my trailbike and the bashguard certainly has battle scars...I think it's the same size as a 34t

I'm only asking b/c my rigid 9er SS has a 32t w/o bash and it got me thinking...

[calma]

[quote=Enduramil]DMR Trailstar LT, get as frame through Norco.

Great choice of bike, depending how you define all round riding.

I currently riding a dmr sidekick custom chrome - love it as I ride xc (1-1.5hr max), dj, 4x, bmx and some dh + riding around town with the kids.

Some other choices:
1) Charge Blender
2) Specialized P2 -Chrom
3) Surly rides are all nice - I hear I company out of Montreal deals with them. I buddy of mine is dealing out the US (Texas with them).

Steel HT rule and good luck.

[wwg]

If you are looking for a Chromag Stylus...
http://classifieds.mtbr.com/showprod...=41030&cat=all

[garage monster]

Originally Posted by tdotrider

I figured it wouldn't be too hard to destroy a chain with a good rock strike..

I use a super-beefy Koolchain 710 SL for just such a reason. The thing is built like a tank (and weighs about as much as one too) and can take a lot of abuse.

[Lucwil]

I've been riding a TransAM this season on just about everything in southern Ontario. It's a great do-it-all bike, albeit a tad bit beefy for most XC stuff around here. The steel frame noticeably takes the edge off on the longer rides without being overly flexy. With a 6" fork it's very confidence inspiring on descents and gnarly stuff but can still climb just about anything. Mine's sitting at 30lbs with a Fox 36, big heavy DH wheels, and a 1x9 setup. If you have some lighter XC stuff in those spots I'm sure it would be a lot more lung friendly. Overall really great do it all bike, great frame quality and amazing customer service from Transition. I'm sure you'll be happy with the purchase!!!

[LowUFO]

Originally Posted by tdotrider

I run a 22/32/bash setup on my trailbike and the bashguard certainly has battle scars...I think it's the same size as a 34t

I'm only asking b/c my rigid 9er SS has a 32t w/o bash and it got me thinking...

What are you riding over? Cuz we did some "research" last night on the trails and even an 18" high square-edged rock was cleaned w not so much as a whisper from the ring..

[tdotrider]

Originally Posted by LowUFO

What are you riding over?

That's a good question...I'm looking at the bike right now and it's hard to imagine hitting the bashguard on anything but I've already bent one out of whack (BBG guard) and I'm on #2. I don't ride anything DH-gnarly but I do favor more technical rocky trails. Out of the box the Trance X has a relatively low BB height so that might have been a factor...swapping in a 140mm fork might have mitigated that in my last few rides...

[lukey]

Originally Posted by LowUFO

What are you riding over? Cuz we did some "research" last night on the trails and even an 18" high square-edged rock was cleaned w not so much as a whisper from the ring..

If the rock has a large flat platform on the top and it will hold the front wheel up until the rings are past the edge, an 18" step-up isn't too bad.

But if there's an immediate drop down off the back of the object (or for narrow objects like a log or single boulder), clearance under the chainring is only like 8 inches...or less, depending on how the wheels are sitting.

[tdotrider]

I just checked with a tape measure - with both tires on level ground there's 10.5" between the bottom of the bashguard and the floor...if I can get out and ride this afternoon I'll see if I can bash the bash on something

[JoeAverage]

Originally Posted by Lucwil

I've been riding a TransAM this season on just about everything in southern Ontario. It's a great do-it-all bike, albeit a tad bit beefy for most XC stuff around here. The steel frame noticeably takes the edge off on the longer rides without being overly flexy. With a 6" fork it's very confidence inspiring on descents and gnarly stuff but can still climb just about anything. Mine's sitting at 30lbs with a Fox 36, big heavy DH wheels, and a 1x9 setup. If you have some lighter XC stuff in those spots I'm sure it would be a lot more lung friendly. Overall really great do it all bike, great frame quality and amazing customer service from Transition. I'm sure you'll be happy with the purchase!!!

That pretty much clinches it for me! My build will be a little more XC oriented. I never thought I'd go back to the hardtail after making the switch to full suspension, but I'm kinda excited. Can't get to the shop until Saturday and I don't know if I can wait two days.

The glamour shot that Garage Monster posted from the Transition website has me reconsidering my go-to colour choice of "basic black" as well.

[LowUFO]

That doesn't seem that low. My middle ring is 10.5" off the ground on my Blur LT.

[Enduramil]

Elitist hard tail snobs.

[saturnine]

i just converted my steelhead from a rigid urban bike into a 150mm travel trailbike. it looks like a lot of fun and i can see why hardtails have such a following

[garage monster]

Originally Posted by Enduramil

Elitist hard tail snobs.

Mine should look something like this right about now...

[LowUFO]

We just got this today..Anybody want to buy it?

[singlesprocket]

aha, will be in on saturday! keep it away from bread, he'll teabag it...

[LowUFO]

No problem. Its hanging w the other frames. Which means he can't reach it and he hasn't figured out how to use a ladder yet..