Narrowed choice down to 2 bigs need opinions

[hossmwp]

Hello everyone, Its been a while since I posted. I got into riding last summer and put a year on an older used bike. I am in the market to get a new bike. I wanted to try a 29er. My LBS has a few that I tried and I narrowed it down to these two

1. Cannondale 29er 1 which is a 2009 model and its discounted.
2. Giant XTC 1 29'er

I liked both bikes. I didnt have one that stood out as a clear cut winner. They are different and I had likes and dislikes on both. I felt that the Giant would be a little easier to get over things. However I thought the Lefty fork was amazing on the Cannondale. I ride a mixed bag of trails. Sometimes I even just ride on a bike path to get out of the house.

I am 6'1 and weight about 255 right now. Has anyone tried these or owned them have any negatives about them with bigger riders? I did some searching and really didnt get any conclusive answers. I figured if one stood out as a better bike for the bigger guys it would essentially win the battle.

I am not looking at any other brands at this point. I am comfortable with my local shop, I did go to one other shop and I tried the Specialized bikes but the shop itself turned me off they werent very helpful and it wasnt overly busy.

[falco78]

Im 6'5" 250 and also looking at the Giant XTC1. Have you gotten a bike yet?

[orangedog]

hey Hoss - missed this thread on the first go round, but here's my input.

first, go with the bike that is most comfortable. second, if they are equal in comfort, go with the one with the more durable components. third, if they are equal in components, go with the giant, because I don't trust the lefty (for no founded reason other than I *suspect* they break too easily compared to a traditional fork)

[apat13]

Originally Posted by orangedog

hey Hoss - missed this thread on the first go round, but here's my input.

first, go with the bike that is most comfortable. second, if they are equal in comfort, go with the one with the more durable components. third, if they are equal in components, go with the giant, because I don't trust the lefty (for no founded reason other than I *suspect* they break too easily compared to a traditional fork)

Sorry, but this is terrible advice as the lefty is one of the most durable forks around. Not to mention that for a clyde it is far and away the stiffest (fore/aft/lateral) fork on the market. Also, because of the size of the huge (comparative to standard forks) stantion and the way weight is distributed through the 4 sets of needle bearings, a lefty fork is substantially stronger than any conventional dual legged design. The previous poster is grossly misinformed, and sadly just spreading ignorance. The lefty is just about the best fork made for a clyde - they just cost a butt load and are only available on cannodales unless you get something custom made.

[jeffj]

Hmmmmmm. I had a chance to demo the Giant XTC 29er1 for about 10 rides. It's an excellent choice inmany ways for a clyde. Between the tapered head tube (coupled with the tapered steerer tube on the fork), the QR15 fork axle and deep dish rims on the wheels, it was quite precise in the steering department. The XL was a tad small for my 6'5" self, but it handled my 270lbs well.

The low points for the Giant were that the brakes can get noisy as times and the seatpost is a bit finicky to get it to hold tight on the rails. I didn't care for the flat bar because of the angles (or lack thereof), but that can be dealt with easily enough. Good climber and hauls the mail on the way down surprisingly well.

Haven't tried the Cannondale. The only real negative for me with the Lefty would be the issue of quickly and easily removing the front wheel for transport. It's an issue for me because I transport my bike in my car. For others, it is a complete non-issue because they just don't need to remove the front wheel for transport.

The drivetrain worked very well and the 12-36 cassette was a blessing to me.

I say ride them both and get the one that makes you smile the most.

[CaveGiant]

Leftys look cool, but cannondales are nicknamed crack'n-fail for a reason.

[apat13]

Originally Posted by CaveGiant

Leftys look cool, but cannondales are nicknamed crack'n-fail for a reason.

Yes, and that reason was the late 80's production as the company learned to work with aluminum, a material almost nobody was using. They pioneered the methodology for manufaturing aluminum frames and now make exceptionally strong bikes. There is a reason they can offer a lifetime warranty and still make money - their frames almost never break.

Cannondale was a pioneer in the 1.5 headtube movement, doing it for a decade before others because their testing proved it was lighter, and far stiffer and stronger than 1.25. By using thinner walled, larger diameter tubes Cannondale is able to make lightwiegt frames that are stronger than their competitors.

Regarding the testing previously mentioned, Cannondale has the largest and most advanced testing facility in the bicycle industry. They invented many of the methods ALL the other manufacturers now use as standard safety testing procedures, and continue to develop new ways to ensure their bikes exceed all strength requirements. Plain and simple, they build incredibly strong aluminum bicycles that can take decades of abuse. Despite their light weight, their frames have NO WEIGHT LIMIT because they are so strong (and they back it up with a lifetime warranty).

I have 12 years experience in the bike industry, 5 years working at various shops as a wrench and 7 years as a shop manager. I used to crap all over Cannondale in the late 90's because they had those comically big tubes, their full-sus was heavy, and they had those funny shocks. I was a hater, through and through, until I worked at a shop that was a dealer and had the opportunity to ride their bikes, and deal directly with the company.

My first ride on a lefty was eye-opening, as I had never experienced a fork with suck plush travel, stable ride, and true tracking. The year the jekyll debuted, my boss (an old stell hardtail type guy) was so impressed with the bikes ability to eat bumps (with only 4" of travel) that he raced it in several downhill events (against 7in+ bikes) - and won. I laughed when the rep told me their hardtials actually damped vibrations similar to steel because the tubes were so large, again until I rode one. I was amazed at how laterally stiff yet overall compliant the bike was. I was also blown away by the companies technology, extruding aluminum tubes in ways that nobody else was, nevermind even could. And I loved the fact that they were made in America (sadly, no more since being purchased).

The people in their company were a dream to deal with - always answering the phone (anyone in the industry who has tried to call Answer Manitou or Specialized knows exactly what I am talking about), their techs on hand always willing to help, and their engineers always eager to explain the physics behind their designs. All in all, it was a dream of company to deal with, and their products are second to none.

I apologize for the wall of text, but when people write such maligning and ignorant comments as above I feel the need to react. I was a hater, as I said, I crapped all over Cannondale for a long time - until I saw first hand that my position was completely unfounded. Now, when I see moron's spouting off about things they don't understand, I step up to defend the companies that I KNOW, from my years of industry experience, are worthwhile.

[ImaKlyde]

Lefty forks are fine. They are not the stiffest fork on the market (Fox 36, Marz 55, 66, RS Totem, Lyric all test out "stronger"/stiffer), but they are fine. And BTW, C-dale now has a "retrofit" to get their forks on other bikes; something you didn't know apparently. I'm a heavy aggressive rider and wouldn't have a problem with a lefty for XC. Never been a C-dale fan, at all and now that they are in house with Dorel (GT/Schwinn) I'm taking a wait and see approach. I don't like what Dorel has done with Schwinn, but they've been doing OK with GT.

Brock...

[apat13]

Originally Posted by ImaKlyde

Lefty forks are fine. They are not the stiffest fork on the market (Fox 36, Marz 55, 66, RS Totem, Lyric all test out "stronger"/stiffer), but they are fine. And BTW, C-dale now has a "retrofit" to get their forks on other bikes; something you didn't know apparently. I'm a heavy aggressive rider and wouldn't have a problem with a lefty for XC. Never been a C-dale fan, at all and now that they are in house with Dorel (GT/Schwinn) I'm taking a wait and see approach. I don't like what Dorel has done with Schwinn, but they've been doing OK with GT.

Brock...

I agree with your concerns about the new ownership, especially the fact that from 2010 on all manufacturing will be done overseas.

I do "know" about the retrofit/smaller steertube for other bikes, but the retail cost of a lefty is so steep that most people rule that out as an option. The most economical way to get a lefty is to get it on a Cannondale.

As for your assertion that "Fox 36, Marz 55, 66, RS Totem, Lyric all test out "stronger"/stiffer" I am sorry but you are just wrong. Cannondale provides their dealers with stress test results. All of the bike magazines verify this with their independent testing. And if you do a few google searches, pretty much every thread verifies that lefties are stiffer with individual peoples experiences. The lefty is stiffer than any single crown for out there for a very simple reason - it is a freaking dual crown fork with an enourmous outer leg and an octagonal stantion interface (no twist). It is stiffer and stronger than any all mountain fork on the market - period (not to mention, lighter than almost all of them too). I don't know why people like you feel need to hate on the product because it is different, but it is inarguably a superior peice of equipment.

More importantly, the OP was asking which of the bikes he is considering is better for a big rider, and the fork comparison is a great way for him to make his decision. The comparison is between a 32mm stantioned fox and a lefty. In this situation, the lefty will be stiffer, is lighter, will last longer (no bushings), is stronger, has better pedal platform, and is user serviceable. For a clyde, there is absolutely no comparison which fork is better. Regarding the rest of the parts, that is up to his individual choice.

[ImaKlyde]

[quote=apat13 I don't know why people like you feel need to hate on the product because it is different, but it is inarguably a superior peice of equipment.
.[/QUOTE]

Read the whole post then tell me where I say I hate it...I said it's fine. I don't care for the C-dale the company, that's what was said, read it...Don't put words out there that are not there and attribute them to me, that's dishonest. C-dale's testing is fine...not all industry insiders agree with C-dale's testing results btw...there is some contention there...a lot actually. I don't need to google interwebs/forum opinions on Lefty stiffness. I've ridden them more than 50-60 times, different models...in different situations. I've seen the independent testing results; I've seen C-dale's testing numbers, I've seen RS's testing numbers...Lefty's are stiff, strong and pretty reliable...but not some kind of "perfect" fork. That's what was said in my post...leave it at that. Someone disagrees *and* agrees with you and you flip...say they hate? Immature, period.

Brock...

[apat13]

Originally Posted by ImaKlyde

Read the whole post then tell me where I say I hate it...I said it's fine. I don't care for the C-dale the company, that's what was said, read it...Don't put words out there that are not there and attribute them to me, that's dishonest. C-dale's testing is fine...not all industry insiders agree with C-dale's testing results btw...there is some contention there...a lot actually. I don't need to google interwebs/forum opinions on Lefty stiffness. I've ridden them more than 50-60 times, different models...in different situations. I've seen the independent testing results; I've seen C-dale's testing numbers, I've seen RS's testing numbers...Lefty's are stiff, strong and pretty reliable...but not some kind of "perfect" fork. That's what was said in my post...leave it at that. Someone disagrees *and* agrees with you and you flip...say they hate? Immature, period.

Brock...

I asked why you were "hating on" a product - I did not say you hate cannondale. Don't put words in my mouth.

"C-dale's testing is fine...not all industry insiders agree with C-dale's testing results btw...there is some contention there...a lot actually" WHERE - prove it. Industry insiders ALL recognize cannodale as doing the most advanced testing there is. Just because your local trek dealer disagrees doesn't mean crap. There is no contention withing the bike industry, which is why Cannondales testing procedures are the model that all other manufacturers aspire to.

"I've seen the independent testing results; I've seen C-dale's testing numbers, I've seen RS's testing numbers" - Good, then you have seen the same numbers I have that show that a Lefty is stiffer and stronger than EVERY other single crown fork on the market. Lets make sure we are comparing apples to apples here. The OP is looking at XC forks on a 29er, not 6 inch travel FR forks. When you get into some of the 6 inch forks I believe there is 1 model fox and 1 model Zoke that come out slightly ahead in frontal impact and fore/aft stiffness. However at everything under 5 inches there is nothing close to a lefty, and in the 80mm range on a 29er....nothing even in the ballpark.

"Lefty's are stiff, strong and pretty reliable...but not some kind of "perfect" fork." - Yes they are some kind of perfect fork, for their application. By the numbers, by user reviews, and by magazine reviews lefties are the best performing XC fork on the market. For their application, they are as good as it gets right now.

You know whats immature? Flipping peoples words around, intentionally misrepresenting their position. Putting forth misinformation. Knowing test results but arguing against them - they are freaking test results, not opinion. Empirical data, not made up numbers.

[ImaKlyde]

Do you read what you type? "..I don't know why people like you feel need to hate on the product because it is different..." What in that statement poses a question? (that's a question btw...).

I apologize to the O.P. for being off-topic...it wasn't my intent to derail your thread this far. I'll be quiet, for now.

Brock...

[apat13]

Originally Posted by ImaKlyde

Do you read what you type? "..I don't know why people like you feel need to hate on the product because it is different..." What in that statement poses a question? (that's a question btw...).

I apologize to the O.P. for being off-topic...it wasn't my intent to derail your thread this far. I'll be quiet, for now.

Brock...

Perhaps your generation doesn't understand the use of the term "hate on". You could substitute in "crap" , "rank" , "s__t" , "spit" all with the same meaning when joined with the word "on". I am not saying you hate the product, I am saying you were unnecessarily bashing on it without grounding. I interpreted your callously misinformed statement that it was not the stiffest or strongest fork out there as "hating on" (aka bashing) the lefty specifically because all evidence, all testing, all reviews show otherwise.

To the OP, I too apologize if this has somehow derailed your topic, although I have tried very hard to provide information that will be useful to you in all my posts.

In reaching your decision, consider this:

1) Cannondale has been a great company with great bikes, but they are under new ownership and the bikes are now made in taiwan (same as the giant frame) so I do not know if there is an advantage there.

2) Cannondale frames have no weight limit and come with a lifetime warranty - nice piece of mind for a clyde.

3) The lefty fork IS the stiffest, strongest, lightest XC fork on the market. It is ideal for a clyde on this type of bike, and will outperform all competitors in the 29 market. It is also user serviceable without special tools, another bonus.

4) It looks like the giant has a bit nicer part spec, so depending on the price of each you might get more "bang for your buck." Don't forget to factor in the frame and fork in that consideration.

5) None of this means anything if you don't like the bike. Go back and ride them a bunch, and get the one that makes you the most confident and puts the biggest smile on your face. I know Cannodale has a demo program, so if you just ask, your LBS should be able to get a 29er demo bike into the shop for you actually rip on your local trails. That should give you a good idea.