Prototype bullmoose bars (new production)

First Flight · 06-23-2009

We've been tossing around the idea of having some new bullmoose type bars produced (AKA: Goat Horns). This was our first sample set and there are some things that need changed. These are the same dimension as the titanium versions we have been selling but will be substantially cheaper (110mm reach, 660mm width, 10 degree rise, 10 degree sweep). We have ordered a second sample with some revisions and in chrome plate. Let me know whatcha think.

**MendonCycleSmith** · 06-23-2009

Any thoughts on MSRP?

They look great concept wise, but the execution leaves a bit to be desired. Don't know how much of this is dealt with under your "things that need to be changed" but depending on price, they aren't a big deal. $100? Mmmm, yeah, better use a nicer bolt interface. $50? I'd probably happily deal with it.

Good on ya for bring them to market though. I love my ti ones

sandmangts · 06-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith

Any thoughts on MSRP?

They look great concept wise, but the execution leaves a bit to be desired. Don't know how much of this is dealt with under your "things that need to be changed" but depending on price, they aren't a big deal. $100? Mmmm, yeah, better use a nicer bolt interface. $50? I'd probably happily deal with it.

Good on ya for bring them to market though. I love my ti ones

Yeah, I don't care for the clamp but I like the bars. Will you be offering a version for threaded headsets/forks? Whats the MSRP on the Ti ones you have?

bushpig · 06-24-2009

The clamp is really terrible. I think that it would make the bars very tough to sell.

Fillet-brazed · 06-24-2009

welds and miters look bad too. how much extra to have MAGNA or WALD stamped on them?

Really bad for product image IMO.

**MendonCycleSmith** · 06-24-2009

BP and FB, I was trying to be polite, but since you said it, yeah, they need help to become an asset for FFB

richieb · 06-24-2009

Ya - the finish work could use some detailing, and that steer tube clamp is an eyesore. I'd pay and extra $15 to have something look a little nicer back there...

Like on the salsas...

http://www.bikeman.com/images/storie...ews/SM0002.jpg

Boy named SSue · 06-24-2009

I'm in total agreement with what's been said above. I opened the the thread excitedly and then shrugged when I saw the pictures. Angle looks good. Clamp looks terrible. Welds look poor but I could deal with that.

richieb · 06-24-2009

A little extra width never killed a guy, either...just like the old school. Cut to length...

Fillet-brazed · 06-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by MendonCycleSmith

BP and FB, I was trying to be polite, but since you said it, yeah, they need help to become an asset for FFB

For the record, BP started all this FFB bashing.

**MendonCycleSmith** · 06-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fillet-brazed

BP started all this FFB bashing.

Duly noted.

First Flight · 06-24-2009

OK, mainly wanted to see if anyone was paying attention around here.......looks like a couple of folks are still awake.

-the clamp looks like in cam off a Murray Baja and is being switched for an investment cast one.
-these came in at about 750 g with a 1.6 wall so we are going to try 1.4 on the next sample
-joinery at the steerer tube clamp is OK but terrible at the bar side
-these were hand made so it looks like they missed on the miters
-Ti are $425, 3 sizes available
-probably just do threadless for now but offer them with a quill adapter.

I would never put our name on something like this but it is all a process and this was the first sample for us to look at. Next ones will be much better, I promise........and thanks for everyone out their who is still paying attention. Good to see ya'll care.

Slow Eddie · 06-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by richieb

Like on the salsas...

http://www.bikeman.com/images/storie...ews/SM0002.jpg

Just don't go puttin' them out there and then recalling them llike the Salsas

I'd definitlely be interested in a steel set, once the kinks are worked out.

First Flight · 06-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by richieb

A little extra width never killed a guy, either...just like the old school. Cut to length...

I did request that we bump them from 660 to 680 just for that reason. 660 should be plenty and is wider than most flat bars but folks coming off of riser bars might want a little more width. We can always cut 'em but adding on can be a chore

proto2000 · 06-24-2009

U-G-L-Y they ain't got no alibi, they ugly.

JmZ · 06-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by First Flight

OK, mainly wanted to see if anyone was paying attention around here.......looks like a couple of folks are still awake.

-the clamp looks like in cam off a Murray Baja and is being switched for an investment cast one.
-these came in at about 750 g with a 1.6 wall so we are going to try 1.4 on the next sample
-joinery at the steerer tube clamp is OK but terrible at the bar side
-these were hand made so it looks like they missed on the miters
-Ti are $425, 3 sizes available
-probably just do threadless for now but offer them with a quill adapter.

I would never put our name on something like this but it is all a process and this was the first sample for us to look at. Next ones will be much better, I promise........and thanks for everyone out their who is still paying attention. Good to see ya'll care.

Proof of concept, eh? Prototypes don't have to look finished, 'cuz they aren't.

Look nice for what the are. Any ideas on the price point and the sizes offered are going to be.

JmZ

timbercomp · 06-24-2009

IIRC we are hoping to have them in the $50 range. Sizing depends on the number per size we have to do.

First Flight · 06-25-2009

Price is really going to depend on the details and shipping costs. As pictured, we could probably sell those in the $50 range pretty easily. The changes that we are working on will add to the cost. I would say that we will end up in the $75 range but with something that will be much higher quality than what you see here and probably in chrome plate.

First Flight · 08-20-2009

OK, here is round 2.
-much nicer clamp
-proto decal in place
-tried chrome this time
-30mm wider

Opinions?

**MendonCycleSmith** · 08-20-2009

For what my opinion counts for, those look better. The welds, though I can't see them too well, look a bit washy, but that's cosmetic, and is a function of price point more than performance.

The pinch bolt assemblies look much nicer

laffeaux · 08-20-2009

Much nicer Jeff!

chefmiguel · 08-20-2009

A step in the right direction Jeff! Am I right to guess thats an inch and an eighth?

First Flight · 08-20-2009

Yep, 1 1/8". The miters are much better than the first set. The welds are moderately better but still not great, especially at the steerer tube side.

Opinions of chrome vs. black?

laffeaux · 08-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by First Flight

Opinions of chrome vs. black?

Can't you do both?

**MendonCycleSmith** · 08-20-2009

I'd say chrome, cause the black would be painted and look nasty in short order. You know, one move of the brake lever and crunkle, up it goes....

yo-Nate-y · 08-20-2009

Black chrome would be sweet

**MendonCycleSmith** · 08-20-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by yo-Nate-y

Black chrome would be sweet

If it can still be done reasonably, like standard chrome?

+1

First Flight · 08-22-2009

Bars have to be done in lots of 100. It would be great to offer different reaches and different colors but 100 of each gets a little pricey. I'd like to find the best selling option first and then add more sizes and finishes if there is enough interest.

HungarianBarbarian · 08-23-2009

I think that it would actually look good if you rotated the clamp 180 degrees so that the gap and bolts could be less conspicuous. If you did this I think you could make something that actually looks vintage, this just doesn't look vintage to me.

proto2000 · 08-23-2009

I have to agree, these look much better. The chrome gives them a vintage touch.

First Flight · 08-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by HungarianBarbarian

I think that it would actually look good if you rotated the clamp 180 degrees so that the gap and bolts could be less conspicuous. If you did this I think you could make something that actually looks vintage, this just doesn't look vintage to me.

Not sure I understand rotating the clamp 180 degrees. Don't really see that it would be possible to do that?

We are trying to do "vintage flavored" products that can be used on current or vintage bikes. There are a fair number of old parts available that you can still find.

HungarianBarbarian · 08-24-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by First Flight

Not sure I understand rotating the clamp 180 degrees. Don't really see that it would be possible to do that?

We are trying to do "vintage flavored" products that can be used on current or vintage bikes. There are a fair number of old parts available that you can still find.

Well there is enough room in between the connecting tubes to put the gap on the other side,
Then use one bolt and put it under the connecting tubes.

Sort of like this one:

First Flight · 08-24-2009

I guess I understood the 180 degrees but don't see how that would be feasible with this design? The only possibility would be to add an extender under the bars and slot that but not too sure I would like that idea either.

al415 · 08-24-2009

Are these newer bars 690mm with a 10 degree rise?

First Flight · 08-25-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by al415

Are these newer bars 690mm with a 10 degree rise?

Yep!

al415 · 08-25-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by First Flight

Yep!

Well then, I'll have to try a set!

cammccarty · 08-25-2009

Looks like you're heading in the right direction with these. I dig the chrome.

yo-Nate-y · 08-25-2009

Would it be possible to do clamps somewhat similar to this? This is what came to mind when the previous poster asked for 180-degree rotation. I am guessing that is what you meant above by using an extender below with a slot? I think it'd look pretty neat!

HungarianBarbarian · 08-25-2009

Like that but with a keyhole groove just above the bolt.

GoldenEraMTB · 08-25-2009

Quote:

Originally Posted by First Flight

Yep, 1 1/8". The miters are much better than the first set. The welds are moderately better but still not great, especially at the steerer tube side.

Opinions of chrome vs. black?

chrome, definitely

and as stated, much improved.

I would just need a 1 1/8 to 1" quill adapter for its intended use

First Flight · 08-26-2009

That is the idea that I was describing. In my opinion, that style can be a little awkward looking and can definitely limit the bikes it will fit. I don't have the bar here to measure but there is probably 40mm of clamp now. If you has 40mm more for the lower clamp, you'll need 80mm of exposed steerer tube which some bike may not have.

yo-Nate-y · 08-26-2009

Yeah, I could see how that would be a problem for steerer tubes that have been cut already for a normal length stem. T'wood look neat though!

ckevlar · 09-06-2009

Ok, I've gotta ask. Why not just go the quality route that Rivendell went. They had Nitto fillet braze 50 bars. They are selling them for $150. That's not to bad in my opinion. A cheap even. I'm sure you could have them make a Goat version tigged or fillet and still get them at or around that price point. A thread-less version should be easy for them. Plus you get nitto quality.
These things are beauties. Only thing stopping me from getting a set is the quill. I'd love a set of these for my Ritchey tandem.

First Flight · 09-06-2009

Or go full out and get the $425 Ti ones that we sell

We did have Paul Sadoff make a couple sets of steel bars but he isn't too interested in doing a run of them.