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Forum rules for users, dealers, manufacturers HERE>> .
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03-09-2008
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#1
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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Here It Is!!!!!!!!! A Karpiel Sneak Preview............
Here are a few pics of the new Karpiel Armageddon. Please keep in mind that this is only the prototype and some changes are being made to the actual production bikes due out within the next few months. As far as specifications go, they aren't available as of yet, please stay tuned..............................
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03-09-2008
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#2
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banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,043
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that's prety badass, looks lightER too.
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03-09-2008
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#3
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mtbr member
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 777
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does look lighter... thing looks cool
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03-09-2008
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#4
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dirt is my drug
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 1,984
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eeeeehhhhhhh
pretty
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03-09-2008
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#5
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mtbr member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 165
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might wanna be checking out the Trek patent on that linkage before you get too far into it. Just a friendly heads-up... hopefully you're golden but just a quick gander makes me wince a little.
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03-09-2008
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#6
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Equal opportunity meanie
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,772
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FINALLY the lower rocker angle has been changed and the shock has been put where it should have been in the first place. Looking a lot more legit now. Are the same changes being made to the Disco?
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805
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03-09-2008
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#7
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Brooklyn Bike Rider
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 76
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
might wanna be checking out the Trek patent on that linkage before you get too far into it. Just a friendly heads-up... hopefully you're golden but just a quick gander makes me wince a little.
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What are you talking about? Trek has a patent on a four bar modified single pivot. This was one of the original VPP design.
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Ruff Rider
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03-09-2008
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#8
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plush
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Redhit
What are you talking about? Trek has a patent on a four bar modified single pivot. This was one of the original VPP design.
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Back in the mid to late '90s trek and fisher had a few DH protos that looked a lot like that. I seem to remember a bright yellow fisher team dh bike with a similar 4 bar setup. I think thats the trek patent that he was talking about. Couldn't find a pic of it online, but I'm sure someone on here has one. Anyway that Karpiel looks sweet, but you might wana look into the trek thing before you get a nasty letter from the big T. |
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03-09-2008
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#9
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34 miles per sandwich
Join Date: Dec 2003
Posts: 1,511
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apparently there are a few people that don't know the history behind Karpiel.
The new Army frame looks darn good from here.
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Nick.
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03-09-2008
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#10
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Rides like wrecking ball
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,098
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Is Jan involved this time around?
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hesh to Steel
With people liking mongoose and trek bikes now, what's next in this crazy world? People disliking the bottlerocket?!
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03-09-2008
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#11
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by DHidiot
FINALLY the lower rocker angle has been changed and the shock has been put where it should have been in the first place. Looking a lot more legit now. Are the same changes being made to the Disco?
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Yes, changes are being made to the Disco, from the drawings I've seen it looks great. I can't release those. |
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03-09-2008
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#12
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bulldog
Is Jan involved this time around?
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He is involved in the design of the frames. |
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03-09-2008
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#13
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Flame War Entrepreneur
Join Date: Jan 2006
Posts: 7,953
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Not a fan.
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"Nothing compares to the simple pleasure of a bike ride." - John F. Kennedy
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03-09-2008
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#14
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banned
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 1,043
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
might wanna be checking out the Trek patent on that linkage before you get too far into it. Just a friendly heads-up... hopefully you're golden but just a quick gander makes me wince a little.
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if any patent was checked out it'd be Canfield's suspension, it looks alot more like a Canfield than a Trek |
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03-09-2008
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#15
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Living Ghetto Fabulous!
Join Date: Jul 2006
Posts: 3,495
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Where's the Risse Bigfoot and dual 24's? 
J.K. Looks neat. 
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by kidwoo
The internet sounds like a tough place to ride.
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03-09-2008
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#16
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mtbr member
Join Date: Oct 2006
Posts: 1,454
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by rustyskills
does look lighter... thing looks cool
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still looks balls heavy. |
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03-09-2008
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#17
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mtbr member
Join Date: Mar 2007
Posts: 2,668
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brian HCM#1
He is involved in the design of the frames.
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Sure hope he's not involved with business decisions. Screwed a lot of people. |
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03-09-2008
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#18
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by ryan_daugherty
still looks balls heavy.
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It will be lighter than the original Armageddon. FYI the original Armageddon only weighed in at 10.5 lbs w/shock, pretty damn light if I say so myself. |
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03-09-2008
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#19
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dowst
Sure hope he's not involved with business decisions. Screwed a lot of people.
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Can you please provide me the names of those people? Or is this purely e-rumor, cause that's what you've heard? We are encourging people to come forward if they had frames/swingarms etc at Karpiel when they closed back in 2004. |
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03-09-2008
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#20
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Equal opportunity meanie
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 2,772
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brian HCM#1
Can you please provide me the names of those people? Or is this purely e-rumor, cause that's what you've heard? We are encourging people to come forward if they had frames/swingarms etc at Karpiel when they closed back in 2004.
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I know of a couple - could you provide some contact info for me to forward?
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805
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03-09-2008
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#21
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mtbr member
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 165
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Redhit
What are you talking about? Trek has a patent on a four bar modified single pivot. This was one of the original VPP design.
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Patent #6,203,042
Its a 4bar link for sure where the shock is driven by the lower link AND the first pivot is above and infront of the BB shell, AND the upper links 4th pivot is above and infront of the lower links mainframe. Thats basically the quick and dirty of the patent.
I think it was PDC racings 825 frame that had to move the shock to the rearswingarm rather then the lower link after they got a letter from the legal dudes over at Trek.
Karpiels of old that i've seen had the shocks driven off the upper link.
Basically the dudes at Karpiel need to seriously look into this because if they do start selling these things as it could mean all the profit has to go to Trek and they could also recover all their legal fees from Karpiel... I figure a small company couldn't weather that and they'd just disappear again.
This is the kind of stuff we've had to navigate through here at Banshee when designing bikes. With the DW link, VPP, Treks, and a host of other patents all on the multilink bikes it gives designers very little room to work with. If you don't also consider patents, along with wheel paths, and rising rates, etc then you could get burned.... look at even recently IBEX, Cove, that have spent the time and money developing bikes only to find out they can't sell them. |
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03-09-2008
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#22
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SILENCE! I KILL YOU!
Join Date: Feb 2007
Posts: 1,245
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nice, still looks like a frickin tank. And it needs a uber long fork and uber fat tires.
Are the headtube gussets changed? It looks kinda different from the older 'geddon.
Just get Bender to ride one of those tanks again and it will all be nice.
__________________
Hunter, Simmons, Berrecloth, Watson,Vanderham, Semenuk, Schley, Gulevich, Bourdon, Smith, Moreland, Shandro, Boyko... Bieber.
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03-09-2008
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#23
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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In regards to the patent, I do know the shock positioning is way different. I'm looking further into this matter.
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03-10-2008
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#24
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mtbr member
Join Date: Jan 2007
Posts: 980
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brian HCM#1
In regards to the patent, I do know the shock positioning is way different. I'm looking further into this matter.
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Hope it works out man! I hate it when the bigger companies can send the lawyers in to bully smaller companies like us! A few months ago we (Banshee) got an official lawyers letter from another (bigger) bike company claiming we had infringed their patent.. it was just scare mongering, but we had to change the design as a result. |
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03-10-2008
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#25
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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In regard to the patent issue. Jan had a similar design back in 1993, here is an article in MTB action from Sept 1995. That patent was filed in 1999. Karpiel should be okay.
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03-10-2008
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#26
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plush
Join Date: Jan 2008
Posts: 32
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I hate to be Debbie downer, but that looks more like a single pivot with a linkage actuated shock, I the whole rear isn't shown so I could be wrong. I knew that linkage rang a bell, check out page 74 in the July 2007 decline and you'll see a fisher dh bike from the late 90's that most likely has the linkage patent in question.
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03-10-2008
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#27
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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Here is a close up pic.
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03-10-2008
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#28
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mtbr member
Join Date: Jun 2004
Posts: 30
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Interesting find. I wonder if Cortina got away with it because they used a linkage between the lower link and the shock, thus not having the shock directly attached to the lower link. If so, maybe Jan could do that.
Quote:
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Originally Posted by TerrorFirma
Patent #6,203,042
Its a 4bar link for sure where the shock is driven by the lower link AND the first pivot is above and infront of the BB shell, AND the upper links 4th pivot is above and infront of the lower links mainframe. Thats basically the quick and dirty of the patent.
I think it was PDC racings 825 frame that had to move the shock to the rearswingarm rather then the lower link after they got a letter from the legal dudes over at Trek.
Karpiels of old that i've seen had the shocks driven off the upper link.
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03-10-2008
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#29
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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The new lower link has an adjutable cam, just like on the old upper links. So it's not a 100% fixed shock as all the others, it's adjustable.
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03-11-2008
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#30
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EastBaySteez
Join Date: Sep 2006
Posts: 4,781
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rough price of the frame? I know its alittle far off but just wondering.
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03-11-2008
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#31
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mtbr member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 203
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looks nice. Waited a bit for come back, if they will not go too far with the price they have a good customer = me.
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03-11-2008
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#32
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Life on Wheels and Boards
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,156
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*gets out KY*
**** now Wil's gonna be bragin up n down n left n right about this ****.
But that looks........ poo pooing bad ASS!
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03-11-2008
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#33
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by motormonkeyr6
rough price of the frame? I know its alittle far off but just wondering.
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Price has not been set yet, but I'll guesstimate between $2999-$3300 for the Armageddon. The original Armageddons sold for $3000. |
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03-12-2008
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#34
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Teh Original Dirt Muffin
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 851
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Very nice!!!! How much?
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03-12-2008
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#35
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mtbr member
Join Date: Jun 2005
Posts: 203
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brian HCM#1
Price has not been set yet, but I'll guesstimate between $2999-$3300 for the Armageddon. The original Armageddons sold for $3000.
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Opps thats high |
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03-12-2008
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#36
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Geek
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brian HCM#1
Can you please provide me the names of those people? Or is this purely e-rumor, cause that's what you've heard? We are encourging people to come forward if they had frames/swingarms etc at Karpiel when they closed back in 2004.
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Sherwood Gibson
Ventana Mountain Bikes
916.631.0544
Nevada Board of Taxation and Equalization
Nevada State Labor Board
Sierra Pacific Power
IRS
Shall I go on?
__________________
Balls to the wall until you see god. Turn Left!
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03-12-2008
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#37
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KARPIEL USA Rep.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 295
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dhtahoe
Sherwood Gibson
Ventana Mountain Bikes
916.631.0544
Nevada Board of Taxation and Equalization
Nevada State Labor Board
Sierra Pacific Power
IRS
Shall I go on?
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Have Sherwood contact Karpiel, or he can contact me. |
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03-12-2008
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#38
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Rides like wrecking ball
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,098
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brian HCM#1
Have Sherwood contact Karpiel, or he can contact me.
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Brian, it's a valiant thing you're doing to try and straighten out a known crook, but couldn't you just make penpals with a convicted felon or something instead? Find something unrelated to and unable to tarnish your business.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hesh to Steel
With people liking mongoose and trek bikes now, what's next in this crazy world? People disliking the bottlerocket?!
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03-12-2008
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#39
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Committed
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,053
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by dhtahoe
Sherwood Gibson
Ventana Mountain Bikes
916.631.0544
Nevada Board of Taxation and Equalization
Nevada State Labor Board
Sierra Pacific Power
IRS
Shall I go on?
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Didn't he leave owing Karl Rogne quite a bit of money as well?
Now would be a great time to reimburse him, it would help pay for his cancer treatments. |
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03-12-2008
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#40
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old broken downhiller
Join Date: Oct 2005
Posts: 176
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Bulldog
Brian, it's a valiant thing you're doing to try and straighten out a known crook, but couldn't you just make penpals with a convicted felon or something instead? Find something unrelated to and unable to tarnish your business.
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I won't go so far as to call Jan a crook. He's not in this solely to rip people off, he just lacks sound business principles is all. I would'nt have been able to race 7-8 years ago if it weren't for Jan being willing to "sponsor" me - or in other words, hook me up with an Armageddon on the cheap. He's a good guy at heart.
Brian you're not the first person I've heard of stepping up to help out. I sincerely hope you can turn things around over there... |
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03-12-2008
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#41
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Life on Wheels and Boards
Join Date: Aug 2006
Posts: 2,156
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^^word.
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03-12-2008
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#42
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Tested DH Positive
Join Date: Sep 2004
Posts: 1,001
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Nice! 
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People wait for me on the way up. I wait for them on the way down.
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03-12-2008
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#43
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REQUIRED FOR ADRENALINE!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Posts: 341
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Sick!!!
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I'm always right. I thought I wasn't once, but I was wrong.
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03-12-2008
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#44
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Rides like wrecking ball
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 1,098
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Big Mike
I won't go so far as to call Jan a crook. He's not in this solely to rip people off, he just lacks sound business principles is all.
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He's either fully business-retarded (and thus should never be allowed around the books ever again) or he's intentionally a crook. Either way, why should anyone chance it again? Giving out a hookup or two can't wash out all the negatives.
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Hesh to Steel
With people liking mongoose and trek bikes now, what's next in this crazy world? People disliking the bottlerocket?!
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03-13-2008
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#45
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Geek
Join Date: Mar 2004
Posts: 607
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brian HCM#1
Have Sherwood contact Karpiel, or he can contact me.
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I gave you the info YOU call him!
__________________
Balls to the wall until you see god. Turn Left!
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03-13-2008
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#46
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World Class
Join Date: Jul 2005
Posts: 15,069
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Brian HCM#1
In regard to the patent issue. Jan had a similar design back in 1993, here is an article in MTB action from Sept 1995. That patent was filed in 1999. Karpiel should be okay.
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Did you fail to notice that it's a picture of a single-swingarm (monopivot) bike? Not the same.
__________________
"It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth
You're turning black metallic.
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03-13-2008
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#47
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GRAVITY IS GOOD
Join Date: Aug 2004
Posts: 354
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by Redhit
What are you talking about? Trek has a patent on a four bar modified single pivot. This was one of the original VPP design.
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TREK sucks a fat bone and that name should never come up on this forum. I can't think of one manufacturer that has stagnated in the MTB world as much as Trek. Yes, I love the fact that some of them are handbuilt in the good ol' USA, but when small manufacturers that have 1/50th the capitol that Trek has and they are constantly pushing the envelope of suspension designs (Canfield, Yeti, Commencal, etc.) and Trek keeps coming up with the old faux-bar year after year after year, well, I have no respect for that. In fact, I just heard that C-dale just became a member of the Pacific group.....this should have happened to Trek instead! |
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03-24-2008
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#48
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mtbr member
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 8
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Quote:
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Originally Posted by HOFFMAN223
...when small manufacturers that have 1/50th the capitol that Trek has and they are constantly pushing the envelope of suspension designs (Canfield, Yeti, Commencal, etc.) and Trek keeps coming up with the old faux-bar year after year after year, well, I have no respect for that.
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Canfield I might give you - but they haven't really done anything ground-breakingly new. Good stuff, yes, but not ground-breaking. What have Yeti and Commencal done, though? yeti with their uber-complicated slider bike with a bazillion bolts and creaks gallore? A for effort, c minus for execution. And the rest of the yeti's are pure faux-bar. Big whoop. Commencal has nothing but linkage driven single pivots and faux-bars. How's that pushing the envelope? |
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03-24-2008
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#49
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Canfield Brothers
Join Date: Jan 2004
Posts: 868
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Wait until you ride our new line.
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03-25-2008
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#50
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mtbr member
Join Date: Jun 2007
Posts: 786
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Hopefully they've learned to weld the bikes together straight by now. My seat tube is crooked as hell on my Army. Oh, and it LOOKS like it might be a 150mm rear hub now, thats a good thing.
__________________
Team Loweriders
Quote:
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Originally Posted by mandown;3313871
Nothing says fun like punching a baby!
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