New Rock Lobster 29"er

Francis Buxton · 08-02-2004

Here's a couple of pics of my friend Rob's new Rock Lobster, prior to full buildup. Rob said he rode it yesterday, and Paul absolutely nailed the bike.

donkey · 08-02-2004

Yep, wow. That thing is great looking. I always like a bike with matching powder on the frame, fork and stem. I've always been a rock lobster fan as well.

XT cranks llok great with the silver ring.

Is that a set screw EBB or a pinch bolt?

Francis Buxton · 08-02-2004

It's a pinch bolt style (can't remember the specific name). Rob said Paul told him that he drilled a couple of extra holes in it for ease of adjustment (in case the adjustment hole was in a bad spot to put a spanner relative to the chainstay, etc.).

Kam · 08-02-2004

rock lobster stuff always puts a smile on my face...just really classy looking work. love the matching fork and stem too.

does it have wishbone stays?

also, it looks like a comotion pich bolt ebb. i use to loosen the pichbolts, stick a allen key inside one of the hole on the driveside, and turn the cranks and let the spider to the work for me, i never neede a spanner.

cheers!

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis

Here's a couple of pics of my friend Rob's new Rock Lobster, prior to full buildup. Rob said he rode it yesterday, and Paul absolutely nailed the bike.

aosty · 08-02-2004

whoa

12345

nightfire · 08-03-2004

love the colour.

Simple, clean looking bike. I like.

P::..

riderx · 08-03-2004

Sweet. Dig that color too.

Singlespeedpunk · 08-03-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by nightfire

love the colour.

Simple, clean looking bike. I like.

P::..

What a FERROUS in that colour would be like?

Argh! more choices

Sweet looking bike, I loved my Lobster (26")

SSP

Francis Buxton · 08-03-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by riderx

Sweet. Dig that color too.

Here's a few more.......

icegeek · 08-03-2004

She sure is purty. Not a lot of clearance though, what size are those tires?

donkey · 08-03-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by icegeek

She sure is purty. Not a lot of clearance though, what size are those tires?

Those would be the IRC Notos....I believe they are claimed at 2.1.

NoDunut4U · 08-04-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by donkey

Those would be the IRC Notos....I believe they are claimed at 2.1.

Pitty, that..... I want enough room to run 2.5' or even greater, should they ever be released.

Francis Buxton · 08-04-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoDunut4U

Pitty, that..... I want enough room to run 2.5' or even greater, should they ever be released.

After having discussions with two frame builders (Paul at Rock Lobster and Wade at Vulture), I'm somewhat doubtful that we will see truly big (like 2.5") tires in the 29" market. It will definitely be quite some time before we do. The main problem seems to come from fork blades and chainstays. It seems that tubing manufacturers are not currently producing much in terms of fork blades for 29"ers, so it is fairly difficult for builders to make long enough forks (for suspension corrected or big tires or both) without them getting pretty noodly (especially if you want disc brakes). Vulture seems to get by this by making a segmented crown fork, but Wade still warned me about trying to get too long, or get too big of a tire in there, because he'd have to use thicker and thicker tubing to make the fork not chatter under braking. Hence, Pauld make the fork on Rob's bike fairly tight. Same basic thing with chainstays. There aren't a lot of long stays being made out there, so some builders are getting by with using a longer dropout, and then they can use fairly standard chainstays. It's also hard to keep the wheelbase close to what we're used to on 26" bikes and make room in the stays for big fat tires. Even my Karate Monkey wouldn't fit 2.5" tires, especially without rubbing on the stays under heavy cranking. I can currently flex my chain into my front derailleur cage, so I would imagine a 2.5" tire would rub. There isn't that much clearance on a 2.1.

I'm not sure that a 2.5" tire is really needed in a 29" platform. We already get a little bigger contact patch, and can run a bit lower pressure than our 26" brothers. Combine that with the ride of a custom steel frame, and I highly doubt a 2.5" is needed, even for some of the rockiest trails around, but I could be wrong....

ncj01 · 08-04-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by NoDunut4U

Pitty, that..... I want enough room to run 2.5' or even greater, should they ever be released.

This may be a seperate thread topic, but here's something I have chronically misunderstood: the need/desire for larger and larger diameter tires on a 29er.

To me, by nature, the 29er is a XC/epic trail or racing bike. As such, in my opinion, there is no place or call for anything larger than a true 2.1, or maaaybe a 2.2.

I see no need or call for anything bigger. To go bigger is to go down the route of free ride, DH, jumping, or whatever else more aggressive riders are doing these days. The only semi-plausible explanation I'm aware of is that it's more cusy for going rigid....but hey brotha buy a suspension fork if you're concerned with comfort....29er's by thier nature have better traction and grip, so I don't think that's a valid reason to want a huge tire.

I further see lobbying the tire manufacturers for a fatty 29er tire as a mis-direction, when what we need is more and more variety in the 1.9-2.2 range....

Just my thoughts, I'm a nano man, till death (or better replacment) do us part....

Francis Buxton · 08-04-2004

ncj....I'm with you on the tires....I might like to see a 2.25 to use as a front tire, but you're right, anything much bigger and you're kinda getting toward the freeride realm, which big wheels aren't really that great for. I need it just soft enough to ride all day on, but I highly doubt I'll ever go back to suspension, as long as I can continue to buy comfy steel forks...

NoDunut4U · 08-04-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by ncj01

The only semi-plausible explanation I'm aware of is that it's more cusy for going rigid

There is indeed another very plausable reason, and while it is a specialized field it is one that is gaining more and more popularity, the notion of Ice Biking and Winter Commuting where it is ALL about as big and as wide of a tire you can get for traction on ice and flotation on snow. As an example my 26" with SnowCat (44mm) rims and Nokian Extreme 296 tires (that's 296 carbide studs per tire) running at 10-12psi :

http://www.shavings.net/images/bikes/ice/RRT.JPG

Many bike commuters abandon thier 700c road bike format in the winter months in favor of the additional width and thus traction afforded by a larger profiles availible to the 26" market. Surely these folks would return to riding 700c (29") bikes durring the winter months if they could find and fit these larger profile tires in that format.

Kolo · 08-05-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by Francis

ncj....I'm with you on the tires....I might like to see a 2.25 to use as a front tire, but you're right, anything much bigger and you're kinda getting toward the freeride realm, which big wheels aren't really that great for. I need it just soft enough to ride all day on, but I highly doubt I'll ever go back to suspension, as long as I can continue to buy comfy steel forks...

Well, I'd call that more than semi-plausible, as evidenced by Cloxxi's poll of a couple of weeks ago, a large proportion of people on 29"ers are riding SS. If you check out the SS board, a lot of guys over there have, or are planning, 29" bikes. Many SSers prefer rigid (or an SPV fork - currently unavailable in 29") due to lack of bob when honking uphill. The only way to then get a bit of comfort is to run a big tyre. I'd submit that the vast majority of 29"ers baying for a BIGGER tyre are SSers.

Sam

**Walt** · 08-05-2004

There are actually plenty of sufficiently long chainstays available. Many hybrid, comfort, touring, and tandem bikes (just to mention a few) use chainstays as long as any 29er - long stays = more give = more comfort. At least for some people. Truetemper alone makes 3 or 4 models of chainstay that will work with a 29er. The problem, as several people have noted, is clearance, especially front derailleur clearance. With a 2.1" tire on one of my bikes (445mm chainstays, for the sake of argument), the front derailleur has less than 3/8" of clearance from the tire. A 2.3" is going to practically rub. A 2.5"? No way. Maybe for a SS if you were willing to push everything outboard on the driveside and have a pretty weird chainline. Not as much of an issue on the front, of couse, since many forks have adequate clearance for pretty big tires.

The other issue is that, if you want truly huge tires AND big wheels, a 3" tire on a 26" rim will give you an effective wheel size around 28". Not quite a 29er, but close enough, I'd think. So the impetus isn't really there - the FR/DH market already HAS wheels bigger than 26", because they all run huge tires.

I'd rather see, in order of importance: a 29" UST tire, more good-quality (ie Stans-able) kevlar beaded knobbies, and more quality MTB-specific 700c rims.

-Walt

donkey · 08-05-2004

.....Bigger tires will help the 29er market more than any other tire style, such as UST, lighter race tires, etc. Here's why:

1. Lot's of us are SSers. Bigger tires are super nice to have for a SS, especially when conditions turn to crap.
2. There aren't alot of full suspension offerings for 29's, so a bigger tire will help those looking for a little more cush.
3. There aren't alot of suspension fork options for us, and many of us prefer rigid forks anyway. A larger tire makes the front end much more comfortable.
4. 29er's are great all day, epic, high milage bikes. For me, this type of riding begs for a large tire. Any ride of decent milage in my neck of the woods takes you through a vast array of trail conditions. Everything from smooth fireroad to ridiculously steep, rutted, rocky, crappy singletrack. That's just the way it is. That being said, I don't think you can say "bigger tires are only for freeriders and Dh'ers". Many of the trails that I ride on longer loops are the same ones that people shuttle and ride on their DH bikes.
5. Because options are good.....the more tires the better. I'd be equally excited if someone offered a semi slick 2.0.
6. Snow. Those of you who ride snow are already seeing the advantages of 29er's as opposed to a 26 with large tires.....just imagine a 29er with large tires....perfection. I don't ride in the snow alot, but I do occasionally and a large tire is certainly a good thing.

I know I'll be buying at least 5 or 6 of the WTB 2.35 when they come out, just in case they get held up due to "bead issues";-)

I'd buy some 2.5's as well for the front. Bring 'em.

Padre's wife did the vision quest(52 miles, 11,000 feet of gain) with a rigid and an enormous 2.4 on the front. I am sure she was glad to have it. I know I would have appreciated a large tire that day!

~martini~ · 08-05-2004

Call a freak if you want, but for winter riding-the riding I do(commuting) in winter at least-I go skinny.My fixy runs Ritchey 30c Speedmax's. Nothing cuts down to the bottom of the muck to hard pavement faster(or Ice as the case may be) than a skinny tire. If I'm commuting, I don't want to float on top, going slow. For ice racing, I've got studded tires I made that work great. 2.1" Onza Porcs. I'd hate to ride those tires on a pavment/snow mix though. Talk about slow and painful...

appleSSeed · 12-16-2004

Francis do you know what kind of chainring that is?

vcyclist · 12-17-2004

By the way to make sure we stay somewhat on the subject, that is a very clean ride. I have lusted over a RL in a 26er for years, somehting about custom steel!
I think tire clearance can be an issue, it was an issue in the rear on my 26er Litespeed when I ran it SS with the ENO hub. I really don't think we should expect these bikes to do things that they really were not made to, thus why we have some many differnt styles out there FR, XC, DH, etc., etc. In a HT SS fully rigid I don't think there is a better application than a 29er. But I am really a XC purest and could give #@*& about drops and hucks and stuff like that. I have been riding MTB's since 1986 and we didn't have any option but larger tires for cush. Still with that the opt. set up was a 1.95 to 2.0 set in the rear and a IRC X1 2.25 or a Fisher Fat Trax 2.35/.5 in the front. Still till recently I have used a simular set up. When its rough I'm standing hovering over my saddle anyway or if I really want cush I'd go with a sus. post. Now that I don't have allot tire selection I'm running Bontrager Jones 2.2"s, they fit fine in my KM front and rear and seem to work very well. If a bigger tire comes out and I can get the same performance I'll put one on the front, but will more than like ly keep the rear the same. So my 2 cents is lets not try and expect these bike to ride like FS rigs, I for one don't want that. If your conditioned enough to ride all day then it should'nt really be an issue, if you get a little wore out or rattled stop a bit and look around and enjoy why you are there. These are very cool machines and the 29er group is a incredible and risk taking group that were willing to go out on the edge and ride something differnt. Have fun and post complete pic's. V

kustomz · 12-17-2004

Just curious, is there anything other than clamping force that keeps that EBB centered?

robpennell · 12-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by appleSSeed

Francis do you know what kind of chainring that is?

Its a Spot 34t. I'm planning on riding Perry around 12:00 Saturday. I have a spare chainring if you need to borrow one. Let me know.

robpennell · 12-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by kustomz

Just curious, is there anything other than clamping force that keeps that EBB centered?

force with the two pinch bolts. I've had no problems with it. I really like that you can slide the EBB around to get a perfect chainline.

robpennell · 12-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by vcyclist

By the way to make sure we stay somewhat on the subject, that is a very clean ride. I have lusted over a RL in a 26er for years, somehting about custom steel!
I think tire clearance can be an issue, it was an issue in the rear on my 26er Litespeed when I ran it SS with the ENO hub. I really don't think we should expect these bikes to do things that they really were not made to, thus why we have some many differnt styles out there FR, XC, DH, etc., etc. In a HT SS fully rigid I don't think there is a better application than a 29er. But I am really a XC purest and could give #@*& about drops and hucks and stuff like that. I have been riding MTB's since 1986 and we didn't have any option but larger tires for cush. Still with that the opt. set up was a 1.95 to 2.0 set in the rear and a IRC X1 2.25 or a Fisher Fat Trax 2.35/.5 in the front. Still till recently I have used a simular set up. When its rough I'm standing hovering over my saddle anyway or if I really want cush I'd go with a sus. post. Now that I don't have allot tire selection I'm running Bontrager Jones 2.2"s, they fit fine in my KM front and rear and seem to work very well. If a bigger tire comes out and I can get the same performance I'll put one on the front, but will more than like ly keep the rear the same. So my 2 cents is lets not try and expect these bike to ride like FS rigs, I for one don't want that. If your conditioned enough to ride all day then it should'nt really be an issue, if you get a little wore out or rattled stop a bit and look around and enjoy why you are there. These are very cool machines and the 29er group is a incredible and risk taking group that were willing to go out on the edge and ride something differnt. Have fun and post complete pic's. V

http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.php?t=40806

HoSS · 12-17-2004

What length cranks are you running and do you have any toe overlap? Also what is the headtube angle? Since I missed out on Mike's Sycip I'm closer to buying one of these beasts.

robpennell · 12-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by HoSS

What length cranks are you running and do you have any toe overlap? Also what is the headtube angle? Since I missed out on Mike's Sycip I'm closer to buying one of these beasts.

175's and I have no idea what the headtube angle is. I do have a little toe overlap but thats more my doing than Paul's. I have really long legs and a short torso so all the 29ers I tested out felt really long and sluggish. I had Paul keep everything really tight. Francis's RL has a lot more tire gap and no toe overlap. I'll let Francis speak for himself but I cant say enough about how well Paul nailed the fit on this bike. Its just perfect. If I had it to do all over again I wouldnt change a thing.

Francis Buxton · 12-17-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by robpennell

175's and I have no idea what the headtube angle is. I do have a little toe overlap but thats more my doing than Paul's. I have really long legs and a short torso so all the 29ers I tested out felt really long and sluggish. I had Paul keep everything really tight. Francis's RL has a lot more tire gap and no toe overlap. I'll let Francis speak for himself but I cant say enough about how well Paul nailed the fit on this bike. Its just perfect. If I had it to do all over again I wouldnt change a thing.

I actually get to take the bike out on trail tomorrow morning, so I'll be taking some more complete pics of my bike. There should be two pics of my bike(s) attached to this. The old KM with Donkey's old Sycip fork and the new RL. The Sycip fork quickened up the KM steering to where I like it (I think all Surly's feel like semi's, just personal opinion) and softened the rocks a lot. The RL is just, well, oh so nice. I finally got the H-bars put on, and I'm going to give them a thorough ride tomorrow.

Francis Buxton · 12-21-2004

Quote:

Originally Posted by robpennell

Its a Spot 34t. I'm planning on riding Perry around 12:00 Saturday. I have a spare chainring if you need to borrow one. Let me know.

Here are a couple pics we shot Saturday.