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  1. #1
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    X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!

    So, I've been around motorsports, snowmobiles, dirtbikes and the like over the years. I've also been biking over half of my life here on earth, so I know a few things about servicing Fox shocks. This brings me to my current rant.....

    I have an older RP3 shock that needs new damper oil and a nitro recharge. I've done the air sleeve (many times) and I DO NOT NEED any custom valving (aka Push). Apparently NO ONE, I mean NO ONE other than Fox and Push can recharge the nitro?!?!?!

    When I used to re-valve my snowmobile shocks we had a huge bottle of nitro in the shop. A matter a 30min to re-valve, re-charge and I was back riding my snowmobile seeing what effect the changes I made had to the suspension. It was no biggie. Anyone could do it. Seriously, it isn't hard to recharge the nitro with the needle tool.

    This brings me to my current dilema..... I don't want to spend $100+ dollars just to rebuild the shock to normal condition. I just want to refill the damper oil and recharge the IFP chamber. Hell, I'd be just fine using air instead of nitro, but that doesn't seem possible without the tool. (which NO ONE has, except Fox and Push)
    What is everyone doing with this situation? I talked to Fox and they want $120 for a full rebuild! I'd go the Push route for a little more than that, but I'm fine with the Comp and Rebound functions.

    Has anyone found a cycle/sled shop that can recharge the nitro side of things? I'm worried the needle guage is slightly larger than what the MTB shocks need.
    I've found some good info online and even found a massive zip file of Fox documents with exploded views, specs, and the like for my shock. IFP depth and the like. The file even has a service update in which Fox is telling dealers that the Nitro side of my RP3 is now getting pressurized to 400psi instead of the 'normal' 300 psi. I don't even have the means to pressurize something to 400psi......

    I'm really frustrated with Fox right now. Great product until it needs servicing and then I'm supposed to pay almost half of the cost of a new shock, just to rebuild my old one!?!?
    I am more than competent and confident to do this myself, but how?

    Any help on the matter is appreciated and I know I'm not the first to ***** about Fox's proprietary damper. Feels like a Monopoly with Fox and Push being the ONLY ones that can work on these.

    /Rant, Just needed to get that off my chest!

    Please tell me I don't have just 2 options!

  2. #2
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    I think you'll find the information you're looking for here:
    Breaking and entering the damper circuit on a Fox air shock

  3. #3
    I work in .001 tolerances
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    I think you'll find the information you're looking for here:
    Breaking and entering the damper circuit on a Fox air shock
    Thanks, I've reviewed that like the bible.

    Only problem EVERYONE has is getting the right amount of pressure into the chamber and them closing the valve without any escaping.
    The RP3 needs 400psi. That's a lot!

    Here's the path i'm on......

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    I'd suggest making your own slotted allen key, like the guy in that thread did. If I remember correctly, he just dremeled a slot big enough for the needle in the allen key, so he can tighten down the rubber pellet before removing the needle. Also, if you have the tools, you could consider just drilling it, tapping it, and installing a schrader valve.

  5. #5
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    Not a 'bad' idea, but for the $40 for the needle valve it would be a lot cleaner/more precise!

    Thanks for the help

  6. #6
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    Get the needle. As you say, you cannot get to 400psi with a shock pump and DIY fill needle. With a shock pump you can get to around 300psi.

    I got the needle and 600psi guage for $60. I just take it with me to my local moto store and they hook it up and fill the shocks. When playing around with the valving I just use air at ~300psi.

    Search for "nitrogen safety fill needle" and there's a number of online stores selling the genuine fox version.

    If you pull your RP3 apart, let us know what reb/comp tune it is and what the shim arrangement is. I've collected some info on medium and firm tunes here. It would be good to get a database going of this stuff for future reference.

  7. #7
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    Tig. Thank you!
    That is exactly my intention. Is the needle tool the same for the moto industry? I've only seen the 1 offered by Fox.
    I will most definetly be playing with shim stack, so i will contribite what i can.

    sent from my hand-held computer

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    I have used this needle with great success. http://www.motionpro.com/motorcycle/partno/08-0075/ I use my shock pump( with adapter fitting) for 300-350 psi and have also used a 10# bottle of nitrogen from a local supplier fitted with a 600 psi gauge/regulator set up.

  9. #9
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    Excellent info. Thank you.
    How many times are you guys able to pierce the interior pellet before it stops holding?

  10. #10
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    How many times are you guys able to pierce the interior pellet before it stops holding?
    Once only.

    Get some 2mm rubber gasket sheeting and a 7mm hole punch. I've also tried making the pellets using a mold and heavy duty silicon rubber. This has also worked OK but I'm not sure how long the silicon rubber molded pellets will last.

  11. #11
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    Buy o-ring cord, cut a slice. Works great.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
    SPV Devolve

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Buy o-ring cord, cut a slice. Works great.
    Excellent tip!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Buy o-ring cord, cut a slice. Works great.
    Thanks again Dougal!

    Just had some 7mm o-ring cord come in and it works a treat to make the nitro seal pellets out of.

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    Good tip about the nitro tool. Might have to get one.

    Regarding my own adventures (in http://forums.mtbr.com/showthread.ph...52#post8211652) I just built that bike back together and updated the post. I plugged the rebound adjuster rod (internally) and ditched the platform functionality as well as re-arranged some washers on the main piston and everything seems to be working very nicely now.

  15. #15
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    Ok. Needle valve ordered (with schrader adapter) and should be here this week.

    One question for you guys: where are you sourcing your damper O-Rings?
    Or any of the damper seals for that matter? I've got the p/n's for individual O-Rings and 'kit' p/n's for the rebuilds, but Fox won't sell them outright. None of the shops can get them....
    Looks like you guys across the pond have better access, but ordering such small parts to the states seems too expensive.

    Are you just mic'ing the size/diameter and replacing with the like?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ola H.
    -saw your post on the rebuilt shock. One question though.... With only a couple hundered psi in the damper, how are you getting adequete rebound? I thought the rebound/pro-pedal were directly affected by the internal psi?
    I have a document from Fox stating that the internal psi was to change from 300 to 400psi as of 2006. (this is for the RP3, RP2, RP23)
    So with only a couple hundered I'm suprised you can even ride the shock....

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    Are you just mic'ing the size/diameter and replacing with the like?
    Yes. O-rings are almost never proprietory parts.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    Ok. Needle valve ordered (with schrader adapter) and should be here this week.

    One question for you guys: where are you sourcing your damper O-Rings?
    Or any of the damper seals for that matter? I've got the p/n's for individual O-Rings and 'kit' p/n's for the rebuilds, but Fox won't sell them outright. None of the shops can get them....
    Looks like you guys across the pond have better access, but ordering such small parts to the states seems too expensive.

    Are you just mic'ing the size/diameter and replacing with the like?

    --------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
    Ola H.
    -saw your post on the rebuilt shock. One question though.... With only a couple hundered psi in the damper, how are you getting adequete rebound? I thought the rebound/pro-pedal were directly affected by the internal psi?
    I have a document from Fox stating that the internal psi was to change from 300 to 400psi as of 2006. (this is for the RP3, RP2, RP23)
    So with only a couple hundered I'm suprised you can even ride the shock....
    Orings: by luck. My neighbour works in the oring business and by using a few different suppliers he managed to stock me up.

    Low psi: yes that is what I discovered without even mounting the shock... That is that the pp need the super high pressure. So if you you read the full story to the end, you'll see that I simply took the pp circuit away and plugged whole inside the redbound rod there the pp rod usually go. I'm not a fan of pp anyway and since this area seem to be the no 1 failing point of these types of shocks I did it like this to never be bothered by this particular leak again...
    Rebound does not seem te be affected though. In fact, the rebound now has a bigger tuning range from ultra slow to super fast and it seems very easy to find a sweet spot. I think the removal of the pp assembly simply leave more free space for the oil to flow, even with the too low gas pressure in the oil section. As Dougal mentioned, the main promlem one might suspect would be that the oil damper suck air in hits that yield a fast rebound rate. And after a few rides I might have some slight sounds from air in the shock, but still very little and it might even be a result from not enough careful bleeding from the start.

  18. #18
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    The Float R on my wife's bike only lasted a month with 300psi in it. It sucked in enough air that the rebound was inconsistent and clunking (again).

    I threw a coil back on, I'll revisit that shock later.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Buy o-ring cord, cut a slice. Works great.
    Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    Great tip. Denver has the luck of having an amazing O-Ring supplier and they happend to have 2.5' of 7mm cord that wasn't 'in the system,' so I got it for free.
    I've got enough material for the next millenium!

  20. #20
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    Well i recieved the needle safety tool and was able to deflate my shock's nitrogen. I then replaced the rubber puck and was able to reach 300psi with my Fox pump. Held air just fine.
    I'll be tearing into it shortly along with an older Talas R shock i picked up for $20 to use for donor pieces. Hopefully the Talas will have diff shims than my RP3 so i can play around.
    The only mod i made to the needle tool was to shorten the needle. Dia is right, but length was too long. They're meant for large body shocks so a few mm's shorter worked fine.
    Joe

    sent from my hand-held computer

  21. #21
    arc
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    Couple of things to watch out for.

    Depending on your bleeding technique, the IFP volume may increase as you purge out air bubbles so allow for it when you set IFP depth.
    The bleed screw tightens down on a plastic pellet, not sure how many times the plastic pellet can be used before it leaks.

    Your not going to have many options with the high speed compression, it uses disc springs instead of shims. The disc springs don't like to travel too much or they fatigue and break. If you want to use a single disc spring, try to shim it to make up the difference in compressed height.

    In my opinion the compression tuning is not the biggest performance problem in the float shocks. Have a good look at the rebound circuit, seems to me Fox has constrained it so the propedal circuit is more effective. Pedal bob is up and down, the compression side of things is more obvious but look what happens to low speed rebound flow when propedal is engaged and the plunger blocks the hole in the piston bolt. Now picture what would happen if the HSR was too active, the propedal effect would be greatly diminished on the rebound side. I think Fox has chosen to set HSR on the constipated side to increase the effectiveness of propedal.

    If your shock has been packing down in rock gardens and the rooty stuff you can drill those three HSR holes bigger but be careful, more port area equals more port flow as well as more surface area against the shims. Now the shims are going to open earlier as well.

    One side effect of a too soft compression tune is that propedal will get used more often and that impedes LSR flow. The problem I had trying to tune these shocks is everything affects something else and its not always apparent how at first.

  22. #22
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    Good info.^
    I've sucessfully rebuilt my RP3 & the girlfriends Float R.
    I was able to tap the threads on a donor Fox schrader vavle and this is holding pressure just fine for the nitro chamber-300psi.
    I'll get pics up soon of both shocks & their respective shim stacks. My '05 RP3 has some interesting valving...
    I'm off to Miami for a wedding.
    Joe

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  23. #23
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    Interesting.

  24. #24
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    We the people ... Here we go....

    Sorry for the 'Tease' and run post from last week. Had to travel and didn't have time to do a full 'n proper write up.
    So, here we are. I recieved my 'Nitrogen safety needle' from Poly Performance the other week and proceeded to disassemble my RP3. This RP3 is a late '05 early '06 model from my Giant Trance. The Trance is also a first gen that I bought as a frame only from the lbs that same year.
    *I will refer to the 'Nitro chamber throughout, even though I am filling with ambient air.
    *I have reset the IFP to factory settings and pressurized the nitro chamber to 300psi.


    The pressure that was remaining in my shock was pretty negligable as it sat. I had definetly lost some over the last ~5yrs. I had performed regular 'air sleeve' maint. every other year and not too long ago I fell victim to the ever common 'stuck-down' syndrom.
    Now realizing that issue, I'm sure that's where some of the nitro snuck out.

    Here is the vavling assembly.


    Seems to have both firm comp. and firm rebound valving.

    I was able to find a donor shock on CL for $20 that I figured at best could be used for internal parts etc. and worst case I'd have it for bushings. It was an ~'05 Talas RL rear shock. I disassembled that shock and to my pleasure I found the shims to be useable along with the schrader valve, O-rings, and many other small pieces.
    Here is a pic of the Talas. Only used for shims and schrader


    I realized after reviewing many exploded views and pics that the pos air schrader valve was a 36tpi where it threaded into the body. This is only important because the tpi for the grub screw (where the nitro is held) is 24tpi. So, I decided that I'd try tapping my donor valve to see if I could use it in place of the grub screw for the nitro chamber.
    I realize that it seems mildly redundent to purchase the nitro safety needle and then try to fit a schrader valve for the nitro chamber, but I had only found a few saying that they had tried and found it mildly successful. Figured I'd give it a go since I had nothing to loose. Also had the advantage of working with the 1st gen Trance frame and I have MORE than enough room to turn the bottom of the shock body 180 degrees. Running the schrader valve for the nitro opposite the PP lever.

    Also had a 24tpi Die at work, so this was a no brainer. I had no problems turning new courser threads into the finer threaded body. I had to turn down the 'hex' area that allows you to tighten the schrader, but after removing them I filed 2 flat spots to allow tightening.

    *One thing to note. I had read where others had tried the schrader valve for the nitro and had a problem leaking due to the high pressures in there. After a few attempts at filling through the schrader valve I realized that I needed to tighten the valve 3/4 of the way, Fill to 300psi and tighten the valve down before releasing the pump. This effectivley 'pinches' the rubber seal the is behind the schrader valve. Therefor the valve is not responsible for holding the pressure, the rubber disk is.
    Here it is holding pressure just fine.


    Filled 'er up and went for a ride. Was a beautiful day before I was to leave on vacation and I had to see if I was successful. I had a great ride! 1st off, the shock NEEDED a rebuild in a bad way. I realize that after 5yrs of abuse the shock fluid was more than done for. So, with that in mind, everything rode great, the shock held pressure on both ends just fine and I'm glad to say that I was able to rebuild this RP3.



    I then left for a weeks vacation (from which I just returned) and checked the air pressure in both the pos main body and the nitro chamber today. Both holding just where I left them. 175+psi and 300psi in the nitro chamber.

    Here's a few thoughts since I've now torn the shock apart a few times and have been playing with the valving.
    I noticed a couple years ago that my ProPedal lever had become slightly,...well...limp. Thats the best way I can describe it. When flicking it between the 1-2-3 position, it would just slide over without the same pazzaz as day one. Since the rebuild I realize this is directly related to the nitro chamber pressure. After doing the damper rebuild, but before pressurizing the nitro chamber, the PP lever felt the same. As I pressurized the nitro chamber the lever became firmer and more positive feeling. After tearing the shock apart a couple times now (having the nitro chamber air leak once and the lever going 'dead') I realize that the nitro chamber pressure is directly loading the damper and thus, loading the PP plunger.
    So, if your PP lever feels 'dead' or 'limp' I'm gonna say that your shock needs a full rebuild to repressurize the nitro chamber. Just my observation. Now that I've rebuilt mine, it feels amazing when I throw it around.
    Also, Fox offers great info on rebuilding thier Airshox line of shox for snowmobiles and ATV's. Refer to their detailed pics and descriptions for info on depressurizing the nitro chamber and also refilling.
    Last edited by HomegrownMN; 07-27-2011 at 11:45 AM.

  25. #25
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    Awesome.

    Two questions

    1) What was the IFP depth and how did you set it?
    2) What was the bleeding procedure?

  26. #26
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    Not sure what length shock is on the Trance. IFP depth on 165mm stroke Fox shocks is 1.9", IFP pressure should be 400psi.

    Bleeding these shocks is extremely easy. Once IPF depth is set, fill damper to the brim with oil, remove bleed screw and ball on damper assembly, make sure damper rod is extended as far as possible, insert slowly into damper and excess oil will come out the bleed screw. Put ball and bleed screw back in place.

    DO NOT cycle the damper until you have the IFP up to pressure.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    Awesome.

    Two questions

    1) What was the IFP depth and how did you set it?
    2) What was the bleeding procedure?
    1) IFP depth is 1.90" for my 165x38mm shock (6.5x1.5)
    Set using a digital caliper.
    2) I followed the procedure outlined in the Fox AirShox directions.
    They specifically tell you to depress the piston assy. before refilling with nitro (air) and as the nitro chamber is filled the piston will rise to it's proper height.
    Not to contradict what Tig said, but I've had zero problems rebuilding my shock this way.

    And I'm running ~315 psi. This seems to work just fine. I havn't had any problem with losing pressure or the pos and neg air mixing.

  28. #28
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    Download this file and many (all) of your questions will be answered.
    There are IFP depths, torque values, pressures, etc...

    The Bible: http://sendspace.com/file/gp9k3p

    Also, here is the site for the snow airshox: http://service.foxracingshox.com/powersports/index.htm
    Look under 'rebuild procedures' for the Float & Float2 and the info will pertain to the MTB side of things.
    Starting on page 15 of the rebuild describes the method I have used when rebuilding my RP3.

    Joe
    Last edited by HomegrownMN; 07-29-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    ...
    They specifically tell you to depress the piston assy. before refilling with nitro (air) and as the nitro chamber is filled the piston will rise to it's proper height.
    Not to contradict what Tig said, but I've had zero problems rebuilding my shock this way...
    You can stroke the piston IF the bearing assembly is not screwed down onto the shock as you will not build up pressure in the shock this way. If you do this, you will need to top up the damper with oil before puting screwing the bearing assembly on.

    Once the bearing assembly is screwed on, if you stroke the shock without the IFP being at full pressure, the IFP will move and there is no amount of pressure in the IFP that will bring it back to the proper position. The damper will be full of too much oil (if you topped it off after the IFP has moved) or you will have air in there (if you stroked it with the bleed screw open).

    Remember, the IFP is there to allow an increase in volume of the damper due to oil displacement caused by entry of the shock shaft as the shock compresses.

  30. #30
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    Well I was able to put some good time on the bike lately and can say for sure that the action of the RP3 is greatly improved! The fork (2011 Manitou Minute) and RP3 are working together better than I have ever remembered.
    The RP3 felt like it was tracking better through the rough and the minor shim changes I had made seem to help more than hinder.

    I rebuilt the shock again after the ride and pressurized the nitro chamber as per Tig's instructions with no percievable difference. I'll be riding again tonight to confirm.

    The only thing I noticed was that I lost a little of the rebound adjustment 'range.'
    Meaning that the rebound is still controllable, but doesn't have as much adjustability.
    This may be due to the fact that I added a few shims to the comp stack and this may have pushed the piston a little too far away from the rebound needle. That is the only thing I can come up with.
    Otherwise all is well. The PP still has a percievable difference between 1-2-3 settings.

    Joe

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    Top work. You can get some rebound adjuster range back by pulling one (or even two) of the really little washers that space the piston from the shaft. This will put the rebound bypass port closer to the end of the rebound needle and give you some rebound adjustment range back.

  32. #32
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    So the procedure is:

    1) Insert IFP and set it at the correct depth.
    2) Fill with oil and carefully insert piston assembly. The piston should be just below the oil. Stroke it slowly so air escapes and then thread main cap avoiding any air entrance (using bleed screw?)
    3) Compress the shock to verify IFP depth (no interference)
    4) Fill it with nitrogen/air.
    5) Grab a beer

    Seems the safety needle + 400 psi regulator + nitro tank + 7mm o-ring chord for plugs is the "factory" method.

    Sounds good?

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    So the procedure is:
    ...
    3) Compress the shock to verify IFP depth (no interference)
    4) Fill it with nitrogen/air.
    ...
    Do not compress the shock without fill pressure in the IFP so 3) 4) becomes:

    3) Fill IFP chamber with nitrogen
    4) Compress the shock to verify IFP depth (no interference) - optional - you'll need a hand dynamometer or other lever-type setup - if IFP is set right there will be no interference
    5) Fill it with air

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    So the procedure is:

    1) Insert IFP and set it at the correct depth.
    2) Fill with oil and carefully insert piston assembly. The piston should be just below the oil. Stroke it slowly so air escapes and then thread main cap avoiding any air entrance (using bleed screw?)
    3) Compress the shock to verify IFP depth (no interference)
    4) Fill it with nitrogen/air.
    5) Grab a beer

    Seems the safety needle + 400 psi regulator + nitro tank + 7mm o-ring chord for plugs is the "factory" method.

    Sounds good?
    The part that is not clear from the Fox instructions is whether the oil volume is set with the piston all the way in or all the way out? I will assume it is with the piston all the way out.
    My advice is based on working on shocks other than Fox, but I would say:

    1) Set the IFP depth with the IFP valve OPEN. Use the recommended value or push the IFP down with the damping piston till it goes down as far as it would under full compression. (This would involve screwing on the main cap)
    2) CLOSE the IFP valve while at 0 PSI
    3) Fill with enough oil such that only a little bit will squirt out once you thread on the main cap.
    4) Put in piston and stroke it. Add or remove oil to fulfill step 3.
    5) Thread on the main cap with the piston slightly below the oil level. The bleed valve should be OPEN. Hold the cap steady with the bleed hole oriented upwards and rotate/screw on the main body. Some air and oil should squirt out the bleed hole.
    6) Your job is now to get all the air out of the oil chamber WITH THE PISTON IN THE NEARLY FULLY EXTENDED POSITION. With the bleed hole oriented in the highest position, compress the piston to push out air/oil or extend it to suck in more oil.
    7)CLOSE the bleed valve, but don't crank down on it too tightly. Push the piston down all the way.

    7a) If you feel a clunk before it bottoms, you've hit the IFP with the piston. You need to get more oil into the chamber. With the piston in the fully compressed position, OPEN the IFP valve. This air space will be slightly pressurized and a little air will come out. CLOSE the IFP valve. OPEN the bleed valve, and pull the piston outwards to suck in more oil.

    7b) If you feel too much progressive force as you push down the piston, you set the IFP too low. OPEN the bleed screw and push down on the piston to squirt out oil.

    8) Crank down the bleed screw all the way and pressurize the IFP.

  35. #35
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    Tig, thanks to you I had a starting point with the info you had posted and an idea of what to expect inside these things!

    First off let me explain the 2 methods I have used to refill the damper oil and nitro chamber.
    1st Method:
    1- set IFP depth with a micrometer
    2- fill damper chamber with 10wt
    3- close OFF IFP chamber grub screw (sealing IFP chamber and creating a vaccum)
    4- with the piston all the way up, touching the bearing head and without the steel ball,
    slowly insert into damper oil and begin threading by hand. If oil comes out of the bleed
    port, things are all good.
    5- drop in steel ball and tighten grub screw
    6- with the nitro chamber still sealed, I depressed the piston down into the oil
    7- with the piston all the way down, I began to refill the nitro chamber to 300psi
    8- as the nitro chamber fills, the piston begins to rise
    9- air up the main chamber and ride!

    2nd Method:
    1- set IFP depth with a micrometer
    2- fill damper chamber with 10wt
    3- with the piston all the way up, touching the bearing head and without the steel ball,
    slowly insert into damper oil and begin threading by hand. If oil comes out of the bleed
    port, things are all good.
    4- drop in steel ball and tighten grub screw
    5- fill nitro chamber to 300psi
    6- air up main chamber and ride!

    I was able to put some good miles on the shock last night again (after the rebuild, WITHOUT depressing the piston) and everything was good. The shock feels really good right now!
    I'm ordering a 400psi shock pump in the next day or two so that I can play with the IFP pressure some more and I'll report back on that.

    Joe

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    Do not compress the shock without fill pressure in the IFP so 3) 4) becomes:

    3) Fill IFP chamber with nitrogen
    4) Compress the shock to verify IFP depth (no interference) - optional - you'll need a hand dynamometer or other lever-type setup - if IFP is set right there will be no interference
    5) Fill it with air
    Huh?

    I don't see why you can't fully compress the shock with no IFP pressure. IFP will move down as shaft occupies space and displaces volume. Then when filling it, IFP will force shaft outside and the IFP will occupy the displaced volume. Unless the IFP o-ring is crappy I don't see how the shock would aerate.

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    Huh?

    I don't see why you can't fully compress the shock with no IFP pressure. IFP will move down as shaft occupies space and displaces volume. Then when filling it, IFP will force shaft outside and the IFP will occupy the displaced volume. Unless the IFP o-ring is crappy I don't see how the shock would aerate.
    Thats how I understand it as well. Especially if the IFP chamber is sealed creating a vaccum.

    I've now done the rebuild both ways, and I really can't tell a difference. My IFP depth was the same after a teardown when I used the Fox method and depressed the piston before pressurizing the IFP....

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    1st Method:
    1- set IFP depth with a micrometer
    2- fill damper chamber with 10wt
    3- close OFF IFP chamber grub screw (sealing IFP chamber and creating a vaccum)
    4- with the piston all the way up, touching the bearing head and without the steel ball,
    slowly insert into damper oil and begin threading by hand. If oil comes out of the bleed
    port, things are all good.

    How do you make sure all the air is out of the oil section? Often there is air trapped inside the piston and you did nothing to remove it.

    5- drop in steel ball and tighten grub screw

    Once you do this, steps 6 - 8 become irrelevant. Stroking the piston will accomplish nothing, except to check the ifp height was right.

    6- with the nitro chamber still sealed, I depressed the piston down into the oil
    7- with the piston all the way down, I began to refill the nitro chamber to 300psi
    8- as the nitro chamber fills, the piston begins to rise
    9- air up the main chamber and ride!

    2nd Method:
    1- set IFP depth with a micrometer
    2- fill damper chamber with 10wt
    3- with the piston all the way up, touching the bearing head and without the steel ball,
    slowly insert into damper oil and begin threading by hand. If oil comes out of the bleed
    port, things are all good.
    4- drop in steel ball and tighten grub screw
    5- fill nitro chamber to 300psi
    6- air up main chamber and ride!

    I was able to put some good miles on the shock last night again (after the rebuild, WITHOUT depressing the piston) and everything was good.
    Yeah, that's because there is no difference in your two procedures once you close off the bleed screw. You are just lucky that any trapped air inside got compressed down to almost nothing once you pressurize the IFP, but your method doesn't set the ifp height consistently.

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Yeah, that's because there is no difference in your two procedures once you close off the bleed screw. You are just lucky that any trapped air inside got compressed down to almost nothing once you pressurize the IFP, but your method doesn't set the ifp height consistently.
    As far as I'm concerned, the piston displaces enough oil in the damper up through the bleed hole to purge any air. Once the bearing cap is threaded on the piston assembly is practically flush with the top of the damper, therefor no air should remain inside.

    I doubt I'm 'lucky' with my methods. I've rebuilt more shocks in more applications than most and feel I know what I'm doing here. And @185 lbs riding the shock for 25+ miles of Colorado's finest, with no ill effects...just sayin'

    FYI my IFP depth has been consistently the same 1.9" everytime I've torn it down. I've torn it down close to a dozen times now.

  40. #40
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    IMHO you are not doing enough to make sure that there is no air trapped inside. Having the piston extended fully when the cap is screwed down is one of the best ways to make sure there are air bubbles trapped inside and just above the piston. This is why I recommend that the piston is pre-pumped and below the oil level when the cap is screwed down. Also, I recommend pumping the piston with the bleed screw closed and the ifp at 0 PSI but closed off to check for air bubbles. This check doesn't work if you inflate the ifp.

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    My advice is based on working on shocks OTHER than Fox, but I would say:

    1) Set the IFP depth with the IFP valve OPEN. Use the recommended value or push the IFP down with the damping piston till it goes down as far as it would under full compression. (This would involve screwing on the main cap)
    MAIN CAP SCREWED ON 1st TIME
    2) CLOSE the IFP valve while at 0 PSI
    3) Fill with enough oil such that only a little bit will squirt out once you thread on the main cap.
    MAIN CAP SCREWED ON A 2ND TIME
    4) Put in piston and stroke it. Add or remove oil to fulfill step 3.
    5) Thread on the main cap with the piston slightly below the oil level.
    MAIN CAP SCREWED ON A 3RD TIME
    The bleed valve should be OPEN. Hold the cap steady with the bleed hole oriented upwards and rotate/screw on the main body. Some air and oil should squirt out the bleed hole.
    6) Your job is now to get all the air out of the oil chamber WITH THE PISTON IN THE NEARLY FULLY EXTENDED POSITION. With the bleed hole oriented in the highest position, compress the piston to push out air/oil or extend it to suck in more oil.
    7)CLOSE the bleed valve, but don't crank down on it too tightly. Push the piston down all the way.

    7a) If you feel a clunk before it bottoms, you've hit the IFP with the piston. You need to get more oil into the chamber. With the piston in the fully compressed position, OPEN the IFP valve. This air space will be slightly pressurized and a little air will come out. CLOSE the IFP valve. OPEN the bleed valve, and pull the piston outwards to suck in more oil.

    7b) If you feel too much progressive force as you push down the piston, you set the IFP too low. OPEN the bleed screw and push down on the piston to squirt out oil.

    8) Crank down the bleed screw all the way and pressurize the IFP.
    Your instructions make zero sense. You've screwed on the main cap 3 times?!?
    Also, you've never worked on a Fox shock. Heck, you sent yours to Push for service.
    So where does all your knowledge make itself relevant to a Fox shock?

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    Your instructions make zero sense. You've screwed on the main cap 3 times?!?
    Also, you've never worked on a Fox shock. Heck, you sent yours to Push for service.
    So where does all your knowledge make itself relevant to a Fox shock?
    no, it's twice if you don't have a number for the ifp, and once if you do.
    The instance in step 3 is an "as if".

    The rest of your reply is an ad hominum because you never address the trapped air issue. It's not exclusive to Fox shocks.

  43. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    The rest of your reply is an ad hominum because you never address the trapped air issue. It's not exclusive to Fox shocks.
    So enlighten me....How do you know there is air trapped inside?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    So enlighten me....How do you know there is air trapped inside?
    read post 40 again.

    "Also, I recommend pumping the piston with the bleed screw closed and the ifp at 0 PSI but closed off to check for air bubbles. This check doesn't work if you inflate the ifp. "

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    read post 40 again.

    "Also, I recommend pumping the piston with the bleed screw closed and the ifp at 0 PSI but closed off to check for air bubbles. This check doesn't work if you inflate the ifp. "
    I can read.

    I asked; how do YOU KNOW that there is air in the system?
    Bottom out? Poor performance? Too much travel? I have none of these symptoms.
    In fact if you read my posts, I exclaimed that the shock feels better than before. I have more control than before the rebuild with no ill effects.

    So again, how do you know there is air in the system? Because I didn't rebuild exactly how you would? Oh wait, you've never even done this before on a FOX rear shock.
    Maybe similar to other shocks, but not the same.

  46. #46
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    When you ask "how do you KNOW", do you mean how to check for, or how to prove that there is air inside your particular shock? In the latter case, the answer is "how should I know, I wasn't there to watch you."

    What I gave was a suggestion on best practices for minimizing trapped air, and a way to check if you got trapped air. It will take like a minute more time than doing it "your way" without the check. You can take it or leave it. Trapped air won't result in bottom out or too much travel, or even poor performance. It will show up as reduced oil life and a bit more hysteresis if you put the shock on the dynometer as the tiny bubbles expand and compress.

    The fact that your shock works better than before isn't saying much since it was busted initially.

  47. #47
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    Place the damper body into a soft-jaw vise and fill the body to the top with 10 wt. FOX Suspension Fluid.


    Push the bearing housing all the way down to the topout plate on the back side of the damper piston.

    Push the bearing housing downward into the oil, and wiggle it back and forth as you thread the bearing housing onto the body threads. This will help oil pass around the damper piston as it lowers into the damper body. As you thread the bearing housing onto the body, you will see oil flow out of the bleed port on top of the bearing housing; this is normal. If oil does not come out, you should unthread the bearing housing, top off the body with oil, and try again.


    Drop the steel ball into the bleed port and thread in the set screw. Tighten to 15 in-lbs (1.03 N-m).


    Install a new rubber pellet into the damper body. Using nitrogen, pressurize to 400 psi and torque the filler screw to 14 in-lbs. (0.97 N-m).


    This is straight from Fox.

    This is how I do it.

  48. #48
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    Hi
    Great thread.
    I have assemblied my RP 23 2009, 300 PSI in the IFP champer and new fresh oil. The air level is ca. 200 PSI (25% sag)
    But... My rebound is still not as it used to be. I use to have the rebound lver in the middle/ot 1 towards slow.
    Now an before I serviced it It need to be all the way to slow or maybe I gained 1 click after my service.

    Any ideas to get the rebound back.

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    Great tip. Denver has the luck of having an amazing O-Ring supplier and they happened to have 2.5' of 7mm cord that wasn't 'in the system,' so I got it for free.
    I've got enough material for the next millenium!
    Couple question here guys;

    I'm ordering o-ring cord from these guy's: O-Ring Cord and Splicing Kits ( only one Stateside that I could find. Most seem UK based) Is there a particular duro and compound I need to ask for?

    Or if some of you want to make some $$ I would like to purchase, say 1 meter of this stuff... *cough* Homegrown

    Second question; I have a 7.875" x 2.0 " RP3 shock that I'm currently servicing. In the FOX literature there is no info on the IFP depth for this particular shock. There is however IFP depths for the RP23. I'm assuming the IFP depths would be the same - yes??

  50. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cort View Post
    Couple question here guys;

    I'm ordering o-ring cord from these guy's: O-Ring Cord and Splicing Kits ( only one Stateside that I could find. Most seem UK based) Is there a particular duro and compound I need to ask for?

    Or if some of you want to make some $$ I would like to purchase, say 1 meter of this stuff... *cough* Homegrown

    Second question; I have a 7.875" x 2.0 " RP3 shock that I'm currently servicing. In the FOX literature there is no info on the IFP depth for this particular shock. There is however IFP depths for the RP23. I'm assuming the IFP depths would be the same - yes??

    As for your last question, Yes. The IFP depth's didn't change between models, just between different length's/stoke's.

    I'd give you my O-Ring cord for shipping, as I no longer have this shock. But the O-RIng cord I have is not as perfect as I hoped. It doesn't "spring" back as well as I'd hoped for.
    You're welcome to it like I said for shipping. PM me if you want it.

    Joe

  51. #51
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    I realize I'm reviving a pretty old thread, but thought I'd give it a shot since it fits well with my issue....

    I have an RP23 and I'm pretty sure the propedal isn't working. I don't have any oil leaking, I replaced the seals on the air can, and it's not making any noises (aside from hearing it slide when the rear is bobbing during climbs; pretty sure that it's not "squelching"). I don't want to revalve it, when it is working properly, it is setup great for my Rocky Mountain Altitude 29.

    Can the damper pressure be recharged without breaking it all down? I realize there may be a bad seal that caused the chamber to leak in the first place, but I thought this may be easy enough to try before breaking everything down.... assuming I can get my hands on one of these needle things. HomegrownMN, I'm a fellow MN-Denver transplant, care to offer your assistance? :-D

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  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by cort View Post
    Couple question here guys;

    I'm ordering o-ring cord from these guy's: O-Ring Cord and Splicing Kits ( only one Stateside that I could find. Most seem UK based) Is there a particular duro and compound I need to ask for?

    Or if some of you want to make some $$ I would like to purchase, say 1 meter of this stuff... *cough* Homegrown

    Second question; I have a 7.875" x 2.0 " RP3 shock that I'm currently servicing. In the FOX literature there is no info on the IFP depth for this particular shock. There is however IFP depths for the RP23. I'm assuming the IFP depths would be the same - yes??
    Update on this:

    Picked some o-ring cord from a business in Calgary. No minimum amount required so I picked up 2ft of the stuff.

    Stats:
    - 7mm diameter
    - cut to 3mm thickness
    - Nitrile
    - 70 Duro ( Fox suggests 90 Duro) Seems to hold and piercing it was effortless

    Set the IFP depth as per RP2 recommendation @ 400psi. Quite possibly one of the easiest rear shocks to service/bleed

    Side note: Call ahead and make sure the shop's Nitrogen take can do a fill up to 400psi

  54. #54
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    Question

    I know there hasn't been any activity here lately but it soesn't hurt to ask.

    Is absolutely necessary to use nitrogen or will air do the same job?

    I'm a big fan of doing things myself, and nitrogen is just one of those things that are out of my reach, i haven't found anyone locally that could do it.


    Roy

  55. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenocatalyst View Post
    I know there hasn't been any activity here lately but it soesn't hurt to ask.

    Is absolutely necessary to use nitrogen or will air do the same job?

    I'm a big fan of doing things myself, and nitrogen is just one of those things that are out of my reach, i haven't found anyone locally that could do it.


    Roy
    Air works. Rock Shox use air in their units that, incidentally, are fillable by a regular shock pump.

    If you indeed wan't to do it all yourself, the problem is filling the air. Without the proper tools, it's very difficult to pressurize the nitro chamber (even with air). And it seems that the Fox Platform shocks are particularly sensitive to the nitro pressure being to low and I suspect that too low nitro pressure (due to minute leaks) is in fact one of the main reasons the whole shock starts to leak (through the adjusters). All too common.

    If you ask me, the Fox air shocks are very nice in feel, but in a sense not constructed for the job. Producing a unit for a bike that need service so often and yet is not user servicable is, I'd say, arrogant.

  56. #56
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    What happens inside the shock when the PP Lever is moved?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!-float-rp23.jpg  


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    Can I fill a low IFP with a nitrogen recharge needle without disassembling the shock and still get good results or does the IFP first need to be serviced and depths set then refilled.

  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballistikmg View Post
    Can I fill a low IFP with a nitrogen recharge needle without disassembling the shock and still get good results or does the IFP first need to be serviced and depths set then refilled.
    If the IFP pressure is low, that usually means that something else went wrong, for example, air leaked past the ipf seal and into the oil section. You should at least take the air can off, and if you don't hear any bubble squishing then u r probably ok.

  59. #59
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    i've got a garden variety fox float R air shock..there is major squelching on compressing the shock...from this thread it looks like a fairly straight forward rebuild procedure...i have rebuilt my showa shock several times and know about getting air out of oil chamber...i kinda agree with beanbag suggestion on making sure air is out by cycling the damper head a couple times and topping off with more oil...but i'm a little leary on the nitrogen/air fill...i dont have access to N2 here, or the special fox needle tool...i was thinking of either making a homebrew needle thing or making a shrader valve to put in....anytips on making a needle, what guage is best...also anybody got a closeup of the rubber pellet and or dimensions of it..thanks
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  60. #60
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    Bumping old thread.
    Was working on my float r, trying to rig up a needle system for using just air.
    Was in my garage and a fitting caught my eye. On the fuel rail of 2.3 and 5.0 efi Ford's there is a removable fitting with a Schrader valve on it for checking and releasing fuel pressure. It has the correct size 5/16 24 to screw into the nitrogen port.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!-img_20121223_135030_3.jpg  


  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eville140 View Post
    Bumping old thread.
    Was working on my float r, trying to rig up a needle system for using just air.
    Was in my garage and a fitting caught my eye. On the fuel rail of 2.3 and 5.0 efi Ford's there is a removable fitting with a Schrader valve on it for checking and releasing fuel pressure. It has the correct size 5/16 24 to screw into the nitrogen port.
    Nice find

    I end up spending at least 15-20min bleeding the damper, ensuring I get all possible air out.

  62. #62
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    I've been looking for the schrader valve with correct thread, but it's almost impossible here in europe. So I'll probably stick with needle thing. I found one on amazon (as my post count is less than 10, I'm no atble to post link here) for $29.39 with shrader valve on the other end of needle. It might be a good and cheap alternative to fox safety needle.

    I also found some shock pumps which are claimed to 400psi, so I don't need nitrogen tank.

  63. #63
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    My shock pump's gauge went to 300, but I spun it around till it hit the stop at 0 . So it should be close to 400, week and a half later its still pressured up so the valve is holding good. Just wish it wasn't so snowy/muddy.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

  64. #64
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    I've been thinking the same, but I was afraid that it would damage barometer. Is there any place where I can buy the valve? It seems much easier than fiddling with needles

  65. #65
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    Not sure over there, but do you have auto salvage yards where you can buy used parts or pull them yourself? I bet all early Ford fuel injected motors use the same fitting. From about 1984-1993, possibly later. Very easy to get at from the top of the motor.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

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    Ford engines in europe have nothing common with US ford engines, so I don't see a chance here. Will test the needle from amazon.
    Thanks

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eville140 View Post
    My shock pump's gauge went to 300, but I spun it around till it hit the stop at 0
    I found the Rav X Shock X pump online. It goes to 400 and has served me well.
    It also has a nice feature to allow you to close off the valve before removing the pump head.

  68. #68
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    How are you all bleeding the IFP pressure before dis-assembly? It looks like the fox instructions just say to remove the pellet retaining set screw slowly.

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    ...remove the pellet retaining set screw slowly.
    ^^^ This. Back it out a couple of turns and you will hear the pressure release.

  70. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    How are you all bleeding the IFP pressure before dis-assembly? It looks like the fox instructions just say to remove the pellet retaining set screw slowly.
    That's what I did, not sure if mine was just super low, but it barely even made a sound.


    Also I did notice that using the little Ford adapter when you attach the pump it doesn't depress the valve. It takes about 40# before it opens and applies pressure to the shock. If you want to release air you have to remove the pump and manually press it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eville140 View Post
    That's what I did, not sure if mine was just super low, but it barely even made a sound.
    Cool. Not surprised that it didn't sound like much. The volume of the ifp chamber is super small. Just wanted to make sure its not going to shoot the pellet at me. Looking at changing the oil on a buddies Triad. It calls for 500psi but I'm guessing that is due to the lockout. He never uses his lockout so I think 400psi (hand pump) will be safe.

    When using a needle to fill, I'm guessing you just pull out the needle when done pressurizing?

  72. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    I'm guessing you just pull out the needle when done pressurizing?
    You want to make yourself a slotted allen key so you can start tightening the pellet before you remove the needle.

  73. #73
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    Anyone know the oring sizes for the shaft (in seal head) and the IFP? Was hoping to get o rings before I tear it apart. Also what oil are you all using?

  74. #74
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    So, I thought the needle fitting on Motion Pro's website looked familiar. Its a NTA style fitting, an oring, and a 22ga luer lock needle. Probably 5$ in parts. The Parker # for the fitting is VS68NTA-4-2. I'll measure the oring.
    <table border="0" cellpadding="0" cellspacing="0" width="87"><tbody><tr height="20"><td class="xl65" style="height:15.0pt;width:65pt" height="20" width="87">
    </td> </tr></tbody></table>

  75. #75
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    The oring for the needle fitting is a -008. See previous comment on details about needle fitting and needle size.

    The shock I'm working on for a buddy is a '10 Triad off of a Stumpjumper. It had a ton of air in the oil. Everything came apart pretty smoothly except for shooting the ifp fill pellet across the garage. Here is a list of all the seals. They are all Buna 70 unless otherwise noted.

    seal head -023
    shaft -110 (triad had a polyurethane 90, but a buna 70 should work)
    ifp -209
    air piston -218 quad (appears fox uses a special seal but this will work)
    air piston back up -218 split x2
    lower can -215 quad (fox uses a special seal but this will work)
    lower can back up -215 solid x2
    pellet for ifp .275 buna 70 cord cut .125 long


    I buy my orings from www.theoringstore.com

  76. #76
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    Do not use -218 quad on the air piston and the rebound needle does not use a -008 o-ring.

  77. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    Do not use -218 quad on the air piston and the rebound needle does not use a -008 o-ring.
    Can you provide a little more detail on why a -218 won't work on the air piston? The -008 is not for the rebound needle, it is for the Motion Pro fill needle fitting (see previous post).

  78. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    Can you provide a little more detail on why a -218 won't work on the air piston? The -008 is not for the rebound needle, it is for the Motion Pro fill needle fitting (see previous post).
    If you use a -218 is is likely that air will leak into the negative chamber in the near future, this is why Fox made a custom quad ring after the wave of Float stuckdowns back in 2006.

  79. #79
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    Thanks tacubaya. So, I assume a -219 would be too big.

  80. #80
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    The -110 in 70 duro will be short lived. At a minimum, either tun a Quad ring or a 90 duro buna.

    Fax has had several variations on the air seal theme. Quads are your better choice, but honestly, for the inexpensive seal kit, why not just put the Fox seals in and be done for a while.

    Having rebuilt these and other Fox bicycle and moto products since long before seals were offered by Fox to the consumer, I have tested everything you propose, it will work and work well, just not as good or as long as the special Fox seals.

    PK
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  81. #81
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    Thanks for the info PMK. I agree, the Fox air sleeve kits are a good deal considering, but I figured why not save a few bucks since I was already ordering seals anyway.

    The reason I chose polyurethance for the shaft -110 was due to a Fox seal head assembly drawing I found and the seal in the shock I tore down was tan in color. I'm not an oring expert so I'm not sure of the difference between a buna 90 and a polyu 90, but I'm sure the buna is cheaper.

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    RP2 Float DRCV

    Hi all,

    I've read this thread and some others on the net ,got a bad surprise with my RP2. It was leaking air, just air, something like 100psi in 3 days.
    I ordered a seal rebuilt kit and opened the can.. i was changing the seals when suddenly some oil with bubbles comes from the propedal lever, i mean not just a drop... more like a small eruption.. (got a picture if someone want to see), it went out without a lot of pressure.
    Don't really know what i've done that started this, twisting the internal can ? Moving the propedal or the rebound lever .. ?

    Anyway, i've untightened the nitrogen chamber screw... and there was near no air in it.

    Now i need you..
    1 - I suppose that the (A), see picture, is dead... m i right ? Or can the oil (and nitro) go from the internal chamber to the lever throught an other way ?
    2 - I suppose.. again.. that the IFP seal is dead, because of the mixture of oil/bubble that flow throught the lever. m i right ?

    3 - Where can i found the seals for the IFP
    4 - The o-ring A, does it comes in a kit..? If no what are its specs ?



    5 - How many people here fit a Schrader valve with good results ? Does it held the 400psi ? Why do they put a system with needle, what are the advantages of it ? Less expensive ?

    Thanks for your help..

  83. #83
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    4 of my fox shocks I have made schrader valves for. Absolutely no issues holding at 350 psi so far. Been several years for a couple of shocks since charging the ifp.
    lean forward

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    @ 1niceride : Nice, tommorow i will try with a tractor schrader valve, a 'standard' valve is too small and rebuilding a 'thread' on it is not a viable solution. The tractor one got a 'standard' side and a bigger side that seems of to build the correct 'thread', the one that is on the Fox suspension (RP2)

    This is the part :


    1 - Remove the o-ring
    2 - Shave the bottom thread and get the diameter to 8mm
    4 - Create the new thread in place of the old one

    I get these part for free cause thay are throwing them away when changing tires...

    1niceride, are you using air in place of the nitrogen ? No problem, no mixing with the oil... ?

  85. #85
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    Air from your hand pump is 90% nitrogen. There is a separation piston called the ifp that keeps the oil out of the compensation chamber. The shock body is 5/16x24.
    lean forward

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    Quote Originally Posted by 1niceride View Post
    Air from your hand pump is 90% nitrogen. There is a separation piston called the ifp that keeps the oil out of the compensation chamber. The shock body is 5/16x24.
    To be exact there is 75% of nitrogen in the air, 21% of oxygen and the rest in various gases.
    I've builded the valve today and will try it under pressure tommorow.

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    If you've got that :
    Name:  photo.jpg
Views: 6651
Size:  25.6 KB

    Then one o-ring is blasted...

    1 - I opened the RP2 completly, the smallest o-ring... the one that is just above the one labelled B

    X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!-drcvsvspcroring.png

    Is dead... i can not even find it, it is 'broken' in multiple parts... did someone got the specification of this ring..?

    The central hole is something like 2.7mm

    2 - Plus... i've lost the small ball that is on top of the central needle... someone got an idea wher i can find one ...? I thought of a bic pencil ?

    I've finished my fork (F-serie RL 120), open bath... it took 30 mins, very easy job.

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honusnap View Post
    If you've got that :
    Name:  photo.jpg
Views: 6651
Size:  25.6 KB

    Then one o-ring is blasted...

    1 - I opened the RP2 completly, the smallest o-ring... the one that is just above the one labelled B

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	drcvsvspcroring.png 
Views:	1284 
Size:	35.1 KB 
ID:	783875

    Is dead... i can not even find it, it is 'broken' in multiple parts... did someone got the specification of this ring..?
    The central hole is something like 2.7mm

    2 - Plus... i've lost the small ball that is on top of the central needle... someone got an idea wher i can find one ...? I thought of a bic pencil ?

    I've finished my fork (F-serie RL 120), open bath... it took 30 mins, very easy job.
    O-ring spec: .050 C.S. x .154 ID

    FOX P/N: 029-05-105

    Tricky little bugger to insert

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    Hi cort,

    Thanks for your time, but it seems that you gave me the A ring .. no ?

    I'm talking about the C on this picture

    Name:  drcvsvspcroring.png
Views: 5970
Size:  180.2 KB

    If i'm not mistaken it should be something like 2.7mm ID

    I suppose that the dimension you gave me are in inch ?
    .050 C.S. x .154 ID => 1.27mm C.S. x 3.9116mm ID => Way too big...

    Or perhaps i missed something ?

    I used your reference to search on the web and found a russian website talking about the subject, and certainly found the one i need :

    FOX : 029-08-043 / 2,5mm ID x 1mm CS, Ring rod rebound

    Did someone have the diameter of the metal ball just above the C ring ? should be something like 1.2, 1.3 .. 1.4mm..
    Last edited by Honusnap; 03-24-2013 at 01:57 PM.

  90. #90
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    i'm having a hard time finding this particular size o-ring anywhere..did you buy it from fox?
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  91. #91
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    My bad... I really need to be a little more observant when looking at schematics

    Here's the specs: 2.5mm ID X 1mm CS

    X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!-rp2.jpg

  92. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane View Post
    i'm having a hard time finding this particular size o-ring anywhere..did you buy it from fox?
    I doubt FOX will help you with ordering new seals, however, there are ALOT of companies online that will be more than happy to sell you a few. Do a quick Google search in your area... you'll find them

  93. #93
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    There is a store not far from me, going to check if they sell this ring.

    I found this seller... it's a 25 rings package .. they are Nitrile ring like the stock one.

    eBay | BLACK RUBBER O RINGS METRIC 2.5 ID x 1.0MM THICK x 25

    @cort : No problem, it kind enought of you to have look the spec to help me out.
    Seems that the schematics you post is not for my shock but i suppose this ring is the same as mine. I got a DRCV RP2 (2010), mine got a second air chamber on the top. Looking at your shcematic i can see that the metal ball i need is 1.5mm ...

    Ok found the ball, dismantle an old hard drive and found a 1.4mm ball in a small ball bearing, it seems to fit well...
    Last edited by Honusnap; 03-25-2013 at 03:27 PM.

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by cort View Post
    I doubt FOX will help you with ordering new seals, however, there are ALOT of companies online that will be more than happy to sell you a few. Do a quick Google search in your area... you'll find them
    sorry, i'm talking about this one .050 C.S. x .154 ID => 1.27mm C.S. x 3.9116mm ID
    kind of a wierd size and since it would take a full rebuild to get in there and change it again if it were wrong, would help to have the perfect one the first time...any ideas where to find it?
    Last edited by adamantane; 03-25-2013 at 04:51 PM. Reason: clustered up the sentences
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

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    Something wrong ...

    Everything is in place .. two problems
    1- Propedal do not work anymore, on or off.. can't see the difference
    2 - The rebound works only a little AND seems to only work on the last half part of the travel.


    Here is my shim / washer / belleville assembly .... can somebody spot a problem ..?
    RP2 7.25x2.00 from a Trek Fuel EX 8 2010

    X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!-img_20130325_190321.small.jpg


    Ps : Got two shims on the spring valve (not on the picture, perhaps called a needle, i do not know the name in english)

    Thanks

  96. #96
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    I'm curious about that BB that was replaced. When I remove a shim stack I always usually feed them over a wire or wire coat hanger to keep them in order. I have ADD so the wire is a must.

    What bleeding procedure did you follow? It is a real pita to get right and its easy to move that ifp while bleeding it if one is not careful. I betcha there is a lot of air in it. It took me 3 times with my rp3 to get it right. I use a hypo needle filled with oil through the bleed hole to rid the air now. Plus these pistons hold air even when set into oil cause of the preloaded shim stack. So one thinks they have all the air out until they cycle the shock and spill the air out of the piston.

    Make sure you plug the ifp air filler hole while bleeding to help hold the piston in place. You will find these shocks seem easy and fairly simple at first. After some time passes and you have it apart several times you will find these shocks are not so simple.
    Last edited by 1niceride; 03-27-2013 at 08:33 PM.
    lean forward

  97. #97
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    Thanks 1niceride, i'm also using a wire to keep shims/washer in the correct order.. the thing is that while dismantle the stack my elbow touch the wall .. and bliiinnnkkk .. all down on the ground ..
    Will dismantle it again and check for air but i can't see what the air can do to the propedal not working... plus i can't hear that there is air in the shock when trying it on the bike, no Shuiuliuuiluiluiluliuli... sound..

    Now the Bb is a little smaller than the original one... and this can make a difference, you're right... difference is at max a tenth of a milimeter.. perhaps i can add a preload shim on the spring valve...
    An other thing... i've used Motul Fork Oil 10w...

    To have a proper sag i need 200psi in the air chamber... that is pretty high (my weight is 165lbs)..

  98. #98
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    Solved ...
    The problem turns to be the pressure in the nitro chamber... do not know what i've done yesterday but there was no pressure there, the rubber joints under my schrader valve was to thick.. and i suppose it was closing the hole when the shrader was screwed in its place.
    The pressure was at 400psi.... but just between the rubber and the pump...
    I've now used a thinner joint and everything went well... propedal now works, the lever (propedal) is now consistent..
    Just have to pray for the pressure to stay in... now ...

    Thanks for your help..

  99. #99
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    I'm working on coverting a Triad shock off a 2010 Stumpjumper to an RP23 bv. physically, the body swap went without a hitch and everything is going to work as plan. However, the Triad is a 2" stroke shock reduced down to 1.8", so I have to remove the piston in the RP inorder to install the travel reducer. I've never worked on a boost valve shock before. Am I going to run into anything that I won't be able to get back together when I remove the piston from the shaft?

    Also, I'm having some trouble getting the RP bled. I've been submerging the piston in a cup of oil and aggitating before installing in the body. This removes a significant amount air. It feels good on the bench, but when I put it on the bike and cycle the shock a few times, it has a noticeable pocket of air in the damper. I'm assuming this is air trapped in the piston ports that doesn't dislodge until the compression shims/bv unseats. Any tips or tricks not already mentioned in this thread? I have had zero problems bleeding Monarchs.

  100. #100
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    Update: I recently got a new CTD shock service under warranty (sucked air into damper) and on the packing slip, Fox has the shaft seal listed as "O-ring [8.5mmID X 2.5mm CS]Metric, Polyurethane Parker 4300/92A, or DISOGRIN 9250/90A, dynamic". This must be a recent configuration change, as the 2008 drawings/parts list show the -110 oring. This is just an FYI. I will continue to use the -110 polyurethane 90.

    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    The oring for the needle fitting is a -008. See previous comment on details about needle fitting and needle size.

    The shock I'm working on for a buddy is a '10 Triad off of a Stumpjumper. It had a ton of air in the oil. Everything came apart pretty smoothly except for shooting the ifp fill pellet across the garage. Here is a list of all the seals. They are all Buna 70 unless otherwise noted.

    seal head -023
    shaft -110 (triad had a polyurethane 90, but a buna 70 should work)
    ifp -209
    air piston -218 quad (appears fox uses a special seal but this will work)
    air piston back up -218 split x2
    lower can -215 quad (fox uses a special seal but this will work)
    lower can back up -215 solid x2
    pellet for ifp .275 buna 70 cord cut .125 long


    I buy my orings from www.theoringstore.com

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