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  1. #26
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    Not sure what length shock is on the Trance. IFP depth on 165mm stroke Fox shocks is 1.9", IFP pressure should be 400psi.

    Bleeding these shocks is extremely easy. Once IPF depth is set, fill damper to the brim with oil, remove bleed screw and ball on damper assembly, make sure damper rod is extended as far as possible, insert slowly into damper and excess oil will come out the bleed screw. Put ball and bleed screw back in place.

    DO NOT cycle the damper until you have the IFP up to pressure.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    Awesome.

    Two questions

    1) What was the IFP depth and how did you set it?
    2) What was the bleeding procedure?
    1) IFP depth is 1.90" for my 165x38mm shock (6.5x1.5)
    Set using a digital caliper.
    2) I followed the procedure outlined in the Fox AirShox directions.
    They specifically tell you to depress the piston assy. before refilling with nitro (air) and as the nitro chamber is filled the piston will rise to it's proper height.
    Not to contradict what Tig said, but I've had zero problems rebuilding my shock this way.

    And I'm running ~315 psi. This seems to work just fine. I havn't had any problem with losing pressure or the pos and neg air mixing.

  3. #28
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    Download this file and many (all) of your questions will be answered.
    There are IFP depths, torque values, pressures, etc...

    The Bible: http://sendspace.com/file/gp9k3p

    Also, here is the site for the snow airshox: http://service.foxracingshox.com/powersports/index.htm
    Look under 'rebuild procedures' for the Float & Float2 and the info will pertain to the MTB side of things.
    Starting on page 15 of the rebuild describes the method I have used when rebuilding my RP3.

    Joe
    Last edited by HomegrownMN; 07-29-2011 at 08:30 AM.

  4. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    ...
    They specifically tell you to depress the piston assy. before refilling with nitro (air) and as the nitro chamber is filled the piston will rise to it's proper height.
    Not to contradict what Tig said, but I've had zero problems rebuilding my shock this way...
    You can stroke the piston IF the bearing assembly is not screwed down onto the shock as you will not build up pressure in the shock this way. If you do this, you will need to top up the damper with oil before puting screwing the bearing assembly on.

    Once the bearing assembly is screwed on, if you stroke the shock without the IFP being at full pressure, the IFP will move and there is no amount of pressure in the IFP that will bring it back to the proper position. The damper will be full of too much oil (if you topped it off after the IFP has moved) or you will have air in there (if you stroked it with the bleed screw open).

    Remember, the IFP is there to allow an increase in volume of the damper due to oil displacement caused by entry of the shock shaft as the shock compresses.

  5. #30
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    Well I was able to put some good time on the bike lately and can say for sure that the action of the RP3 is greatly improved! The fork (2011 Manitou Minute) and RP3 are working together better than I have ever remembered.
    The RP3 felt like it was tracking better through the rough and the minor shim changes I had made seem to help more than hinder.

    I rebuilt the shock again after the ride and pressurized the nitro chamber as per Tig's instructions with no percievable difference. I'll be riding again tonight to confirm.

    The only thing I noticed was that I lost a little of the rebound adjustment 'range.'
    Meaning that the rebound is still controllable, but doesn't have as much adjustability.
    This may be due to the fact that I added a few shims to the comp stack and this may have pushed the piston a little too far away from the rebound needle. That is the only thing I can come up with.
    Otherwise all is well. The PP still has a percievable difference between 1-2-3 settings.

    Joe

  6. #31
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    Top work. You can get some rebound adjuster range back by pulling one (or even two) of the really little washers that space the piston from the shaft. This will put the rebound bypass port closer to the end of the rebound needle and give you some rebound adjustment range back.

  7. #32
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    So the procedure is:

    1) Insert IFP and set it at the correct depth.
    2) Fill with oil and carefully insert piston assembly. The piston should be just below the oil. Stroke it slowly so air escapes and then thread main cap avoiding any air entrance (using bleed screw?)
    3) Compress the shock to verify IFP depth (no interference)
    4) Fill it with nitrogen/air.
    5) Grab a beer

    Seems the safety needle + 400 psi regulator + nitro tank + 7mm o-ring chord for plugs is the "factory" method.

    Sounds good?

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    So the procedure is:
    ...
    3) Compress the shock to verify IFP depth (no interference)
    4) Fill it with nitrogen/air.
    ...
    Do not compress the shock without fill pressure in the IFP so 3) 4) becomes:

    3) Fill IFP chamber with nitrogen
    4) Compress the shock to verify IFP depth (no interference) - optional - you'll need a hand dynamometer or other lever-type setup - if IFP is set right there will be no interference
    5) Fill it with air

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    So the procedure is:

    1) Insert IFP and set it at the correct depth.
    2) Fill with oil and carefully insert piston assembly. The piston should be just below the oil. Stroke it slowly so air escapes and then thread main cap avoiding any air entrance (using bleed screw?)
    3) Compress the shock to verify IFP depth (no interference)
    4) Fill it with nitrogen/air.
    5) Grab a beer

    Seems the safety needle + 400 psi regulator + nitro tank + 7mm o-ring chord for plugs is the "factory" method.

    Sounds good?
    The part that is not clear from the Fox instructions is whether the oil volume is set with the piston all the way in or all the way out? I will assume it is with the piston all the way out.
    My advice is based on working on shocks other than Fox, but I would say:

    1) Set the IFP depth with the IFP valve OPEN. Use the recommended value or push the IFP down with the damping piston till it goes down as far as it would under full compression. (This would involve screwing on the main cap)
    2) CLOSE the IFP valve while at 0 PSI
    3) Fill with enough oil such that only a little bit will squirt out once you thread on the main cap.
    4) Put in piston and stroke it. Add or remove oil to fulfill step 3.
    5) Thread on the main cap with the piston slightly below the oil level. The bleed valve should be OPEN. Hold the cap steady with the bleed hole oriented upwards and rotate/screw on the main body. Some air and oil should squirt out the bleed hole.
    6) Your job is now to get all the air out of the oil chamber WITH THE PISTON IN THE NEARLY FULLY EXTENDED POSITION. With the bleed hole oriented in the highest position, compress the piston to push out air/oil or extend it to suck in more oil.
    7)CLOSE the bleed valve, but don't crank down on it too tightly. Push the piston down all the way.

    7a) If you feel a clunk before it bottoms, you've hit the IFP with the piston. You need to get more oil into the chamber. With the piston in the fully compressed position, OPEN the IFP valve. This air space will be slightly pressurized and a little air will come out. CLOSE the IFP valve. OPEN the bleed valve, and pull the piston outwards to suck in more oil.

    7b) If you feel too much progressive force as you push down the piston, you set the IFP too low. OPEN the bleed screw and push down on the piston to squirt out oil.

    8) Crank down the bleed screw all the way and pressurize the IFP.

  10. #35
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    Tig, thanks to you I had a starting point with the info you had posted and an idea of what to expect inside these things!

    First off let me explain the 2 methods I have used to refill the damper oil and nitro chamber.
    1st Method:
    1- set IFP depth with a micrometer
    2- fill damper chamber with 10wt
    3- close OFF IFP chamber grub screw (sealing IFP chamber and creating a vaccum)
    4- with the piston all the way up, touching the bearing head and without the steel ball,
    slowly insert into damper oil and begin threading by hand. If oil comes out of the bleed
    port, things are all good.
    5- drop in steel ball and tighten grub screw
    6- with the nitro chamber still sealed, I depressed the piston down into the oil
    7- with the piston all the way down, I began to refill the nitro chamber to 300psi
    8- as the nitro chamber fills, the piston begins to rise
    9- air up the main chamber and ride!

    2nd Method:
    1- set IFP depth with a micrometer
    2- fill damper chamber with 10wt
    3- with the piston all the way up, touching the bearing head and without the steel ball,
    slowly insert into damper oil and begin threading by hand. If oil comes out of the bleed
    port, things are all good.
    4- drop in steel ball and tighten grub screw
    5- fill nitro chamber to 300psi
    6- air up main chamber and ride!

    I was able to put some good miles on the shock last night again (after the rebuild, WITHOUT depressing the piston) and everything was good. The shock feels really good right now!
    I'm ordering a 400psi shock pump in the next day or two so that I can play with the IFP pressure some more and I'll report back on that.

    Joe

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    Do not compress the shock without fill pressure in the IFP so 3) 4) becomes:

    3) Fill IFP chamber with nitrogen
    4) Compress the shock to verify IFP depth (no interference) - optional - you'll need a hand dynamometer or other lever-type setup - if IFP is set right there will be no interference
    5) Fill it with air
    Huh?

    I don't see why you can't fully compress the shock with no IFP pressure. IFP will move down as shaft occupies space and displaces volume. Then when filling it, IFP will force shaft outside and the IFP will occupy the displaced volume. Unless the IFP o-ring is crappy I don't see how the shock would aerate.

  12. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    Huh?

    I don't see why you can't fully compress the shock with no IFP pressure. IFP will move down as shaft occupies space and displaces volume. Then when filling it, IFP will force shaft outside and the IFP will occupy the displaced volume. Unless the IFP o-ring is crappy I don't see how the shock would aerate.
    Thats how I understand it as well. Especially if the IFP chamber is sealed creating a vaccum.

    I've now done the rebuild both ways, and I really can't tell a difference. My IFP depth was the same after a teardown when I used the Fox method and depressed the piston before pressurizing the IFP....

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    1st Method:
    1- set IFP depth with a micrometer
    2- fill damper chamber with 10wt
    3- close OFF IFP chamber grub screw (sealing IFP chamber and creating a vaccum)
    4- with the piston all the way up, touching the bearing head and without the steel ball,
    slowly insert into damper oil and begin threading by hand. If oil comes out of the bleed
    port, things are all good.

    How do you make sure all the air is out of the oil section? Often there is air trapped inside the piston and you did nothing to remove it.

    5- drop in steel ball and tighten grub screw

    Once you do this, steps 6 - 8 become irrelevant. Stroking the piston will accomplish nothing, except to check the ifp height was right.

    6- with the nitro chamber still sealed, I depressed the piston down into the oil
    7- with the piston all the way down, I began to refill the nitro chamber to 300psi
    8- as the nitro chamber fills, the piston begins to rise
    9- air up the main chamber and ride!

    2nd Method:
    1- set IFP depth with a micrometer
    2- fill damper chamber with 10wt
    3- with the piston all the way up, touching the bearing head and without the steel ball,
    slowly insert into damper oil and begin threading by hand. If oil comes out of the bleed
    port, things are all good.
    4- drop in steel ball and tighten grub screw
    5- fill nitro chamber to 300psi
    6- air up main chamber and ride!

    I was able to put some good miles on the shock last night again (after the rebuild, WITHOUT depressing the piston) and everything was good.
    Yeah, that's because there is no difference in your two procedures once you close off the bleed screw. You are just lucky that any trapped air inside got compressed down to almost nothing once you pressurize the IFP, but your method doesn't set the ifp height consistently.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Yeah, that's because there is no difference in your two procedures once you close off the bleed screw. You are just lucky that any trapped air inside got compressed down to almost nothing once you pressurize the IFP, but your method doesn't set the ifp height consistently.
    As far as I'm concerned, the piston displaces enough oil in the damper up through the bleed hole to purge any air. Once the bearing cap is threaded on the piston assembly is practically flush with the top of the damper, therefor no air should remain inside.

    I doubt I'm 'lucky' with my methods. I've rebuilt more shocks in more applications than most and feel I know what I'm doing here. And @185 lbs riding the shock for 25+ miles of Colorado's finest, with no ill effects...just sayin'

    FYI my IFP depth has been consistently the same 1.9" everytime I've torn it down. I've torn it down close to a dozen times now.

  15. #40
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    IMHO you are not doing enough to make sure that there is no air trapped inside. Having the piston extended fully when the cap is screwed down is one of the best ways to make sure there are air bubbles trapped inside and just above the piston. This is why I recommend that the piston is pre-pumped and below the oil level when the cap is screwed down. Also, I recommend pumping the piston with the bleed screw closed and the ifp at 0 PSI but closed off to check for air bubbles. This check doesn't work if you inflate the ifp.

  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    My advice is based on working on shocks OTHER than Fox, but I would say:

    1) Set the IFP depth with the IFP valve OPEN. Use the recommended value or push the IFP down with the damping piston till it goes down as far as it would under full compression. (This would involve screwing on the main cap)
    MAIN CAP SCREWED ON 1st TIME
    2) CLOSE the IFP valve while at 0 PSI
    3) Fill with enough oil such that only a little bit will squirt out once you thread on the main cap.
    MAIN CAP SCREWED ON A 2ND TIME
    4) Put in piston and stroke it. Add or remove oil to fulfill step 3.
    5) Thread on the main cap with the piston slightly below the oil level.
    MAIN CAP SCREWED ON A 3RD TIME
    The bleed valve should be OPEN. Hold the cap steady with the bleed hole oriented upwards and rotate/screw on the main body. Some air and oil should squirt out the bleed hole.
    6) Your job is now to get all the air out of the oil chamber WITH THE PISTON IN THE NEARLY FULLY EXTENDED POSITION. With the bleed hole oriented in the highest position, compress the piston to push out air/oil or extend it to suck in more oil.
    7)CLOSE the bleed valve, but don't crank down on it too tightly. Push the piston down all the way.

    7a) If you feel a clunk before it bottoms, you've hit the IFP with the piston. You need to get more oil into the chamber. With the piston in the fully compressed position, OPEN the IFP valve. This air space will be slightly pressurized and a little air will come out. CLOSE the IFP valve. OPEN the bleed valve, and pull the piston outwards to suck in more oil.

    7b) If you feel too much progressive force as you push down the piston, you set the IFP too low. OPEN the bleed screw and push down on the piston to squirt out oil.

    8) Crank down the bleed screw all the way and pressurize the IFP.
    Your instructions make zero sense. You've screwed on the main cap 3 times?!?
    Also, you've never worked on a Fox shock. Heck, you sent yours to Push for service.
    So where does all your knowledge make itself relevant to a Fox shock?

  17. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    Your instructions make zero sense. You've screwed on the main cap 3 times?!?
    Also, you've never worked on a Fox shock. Heck, you sent yours to Push for service.
    So where does all your knowledge make itself relevant to a Fox shock?
    no, it's twice if you don't have a number for the ifp, and once if you do.
    The instance in step 3 is an "as if".

    The rest of your reply is an ad hominum because you never address the trapped air issue. It's not exclusive to Fox shocks.

  18. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    The rest of your reply is an ad hominum because you never address the trapped air issue. It's not exclusive to Fox shocks.
    So enlighten me....How do you know there is air trapped inside?

  19. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    So enlighten me....How do you know there is air trapped inside?
    read post 40 again.

    "Also, I recommend pumping the piston with the bleed screw closed and the ifp at 0 PSI but closed off to check for air bubbles. This check doesn't work if you inflate the ifp. "

  20. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    read post 40 again.

    "Also, I recommend pumping the piston with the bleed screw closed and the ifp at 0 PSI but closed off to check for air bubbles. This check doesn't work if you inflate the ifp. "
    I can read.

    I asked; how do YOU KNOW that there is air in the system?
    Bottom out? Poor performance? Too much travel? I have none of these symptoms.
    In fact if you read my posts, I exclaimed that the shock feels better than before. I have more control than before the rebuild with no ill effects.

    So again, how do you know there is air in the system? Because I didn't rebuild exactly how you would? Oh wait, you've never even done this before on a FOX rear shock.
    Maybe similar to other shocks, but not the same.

  21. #46
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    When you ask "how do you KNOW", do you mean how to check for, or how to prove that there is air inside your particular shock? In the latter case, the answer is "how should I know, I wasn't there to watch you."

    What I gave was a suggestion on best practices for minimizing trapped air, and a way to check if you got trapped air. It will take like a minute more time than doing it "your way" without the check. You can take it or leave it. Trapped air won't result in bottom out or too much travel, or even poor performance. It will show up as reduced oil life and a bit more hysteresis if you put the shock on the dynometer as the tiny bubbles expand and compress.

    The fact that your shock works better than before isn't saying much since it was busted initially.

  22. #47
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    Place the damper body into a soft-jaw vise and fill the body to the top with 10 wt. FOX Suspension Fluid.


    Push the bearing housing all the way down to the topout plate on the back side of the damper piston.

    Push the bearing housing downward into the oil, and wiggle it back and forth as you thread the bearing housing onto the body threads. This will help oil pass around the damper piston as it lowers into the damper body. As you thread the bearing housing onto the body, you will see oil flow out of the bleed port on top of the bearing housing; this is normal. If oil does not come out, you should unthread the bearing housing, top off the body with oil, and try again.


    Drop the steel ball into the bleed port and thread in the set screw. Tighten to 15 in-lbs (1.03 N-m).


    Install a new rubber pellet into the damper body. Using nitrogen, pressurize to 400 psi and torque the filler screw to 14 in-lbs. (0.97 N-m).


    This is straight from Fox.

    This is how I do it.

  23. #48
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    Hi
    Great thread.
    I have assemblied my RP 23 2009, 300 PSI in the IFP champer and new fresh oil. The air level is ca. 200 PSI (25% sag)
    But... My rebound is still not as it used to be. I use to have the rebound lver in the middle/ot 1 towards slow.
    Now an before I serviced it It need to be all the way to slow or maybe I gained 1 click after my service.

    Any ideas to get the rebound back.

  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by HomegrownMN View Post
    Thank you, thank you, thank you!

    Great tip. Denver has the luck of having an amazing O-Ring supplier and they happened to have 2.5' of 7mm cord that wasn't 'in the system,' so I got it for free.
    I've got enough material for the next millenium!
    Couple question here guys;

    I'm ordering o-ring cord from these guy's: O-Ring Cord and Splicing Kits ( only one Stateside that I could find. Most seem UK based) Is there a particular duro and compound I need to ask for?

    Or if some of you want to make some $$ I would like to purchase, say 1 meter of this stuff... *cough* Homegrown

    Second question; I have a 7.875" x 2.0 " RP3 shock that I'm currently servicing. In the FOX literature there is no info on the IFP depth for this particular shock. There is however IFP depths for the RP23. I'm assuming the IFP depths would be the same - yes??

  25. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by cort View Post
    Couple question here guys;

    I'm ordering o-ring cord from these guy's: O-Ring Cord and Splicing Kits ( only one Stateside that I could find. Most seem UK based) Is there a particular duro and compound I need to ask for?

    Or if some of you want to make some $$ I would like to purchase, say 1 meter of this stuff... *cough* Homegrown

    Second question; I have a 7.875" x 2.0 " RP3 shock that I'm currently servicing. In the FOX literature there is no info on the IFP depth for this particular shock. There is however IFP depths for the RP23. I'm assuming the IFP depths would be the same - yes??

    As for your last question, Yes. The IFP depth's didn't change between models, just between different length's/stoke's.

    I'd give you my O-Ring cord for shipping, as I no longer have this shock. But the O-RIng cord I have is not as perfect as I hoped. It doesn't "spring" back as well as I'd hoped for.
    You're welcome to it like I said for shipping. PM me if you want it.

    Joe

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