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  1. #51
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    I realize I'm reviving a pretty old thread, but thought I'd give it a shot since it fits well with my issue....

    I have an RP23 and I'm pretty sure the propedal isn't working. I don't have any oil leaking, I replaced the seals on the air can, and it's not making any noises (aside from hearing it slide when the rear is bobbing during climbs; pretty sure that it's not "squelching"). I don't want to revalve it, when it is working properly, it is setup great for my Rocky Mountain Altitude 29.

    Can the damper pressure be recharged without breaking it all down? I realize there may be a bad seal that caused the chamber to leak in the first place, but I thought this may be easy enough to try before breaking everything down.... assuming I can get my hands on one of these needle things. HomegrownMN, I'm a fellow MN-Denver transplant, care to offer your assistance? :-D

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  3. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by cort View Post
    Couple question here guys;

    I'm ordering o-ring cord from these guy's: O-Ring Cord and Splicing Kits ( only one Stateside that I could find. Most seem UK based) Is there a particular duro and compound I need to ask for?

    Or if some of you want to make some $$ I would like to purchase, say 1 meter of this stuff... *cough* Homegrown

    Second question; I have a 7.875" x 2.0 " RP3 shock that I'm currently servicing. In the FOX literature there is no info on the IFP depth for this particular shock. There is however IFP depths for the RP23. I'm assuming the IFP depths would be the same - yes??
    Update on this:

    Picked some o-ring cord from a business in Calgary. No minimum amount required so I picked up 2ft of the stuff.

    Stats:
    - 7mm diameter
    - cut to 3mm thickness
    - Nitrile
    - 70 Duro ( Fox suggests 90 Duro) Seems to hold and piercing it was effortless

    Set the IFP depth as per RP2 recommendation @ 400psi. Quite possibly one of the easiest rear shocks to service/bleed

    Side note: Call ahead and make sure the shop's Nitrogen take can do a fill up to 400psi

  4. #54
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    Question

    I know there hasn't been any activity here lately but it soesn't hurt to ask.

    Is absolutely necessary to use nitrogen or will air do the same job?

    I'm a big fan of doing things myself, and nitrogen is just one of those things that are out of my reach, i haven't found anyone locally that could do it.


    Roy

  5. #55
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    Quote Originally Posted by Xenocatalyst View Post
    I know there hasn't been any activity here lately but it soesn't hurt to ask.

    Is absolutely necessary to use nitrogen or will air do the same job?

    I'm a big fan of doing things myself, and nitrogen is just one of those things that are out of my reach, i haven't found anyone locally that could do it.


    Roy
    Air works. Rock Shox use air in their units that, incidentally, are fillable by a regular shock pump.

    If you indeed wan't to do it all yourself, the problem is filling the air. Without the proper tools, it's very difficult to pressurize the nitro chamber (even with air). And it seems that the Fox Platform shocks are particularly sensitive to the nitro pressure being to low and I suspect that too low nitro pressure (due to minute leaks) is in fact one of the main reasons the whole shock starts to leak (through the adjusters). All too common.

    If you ask me, the Fox air shocks are very nice in feel, but in a sense not constructed for the job. Producing a unit for a bike that need service so often and yet is not user servicable is, I'd say, arrogant.

  6. #56
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    What happens inside the shock when the PP Lever is moved?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!-float-rp23.jpg  


  7. #57
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    Can I fill a low IFP with a nitrogen recharge needle without disassembling the shock and still get good results or does the IFP first need to be serviced and depths set then refilled.

  8. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by ballistikmg View Post
    Can I fill a low IFP with a nitrogen recharge needle without disassembling the shock and still get good results or does the IFP first need to be serviced and depths set then refilled.
    If the IFP pressure is low, that usually means that something else went wrong, for example, air leaked past the ipf seal and into the oil section. You should at least take the air can off, and if you don't hear any bubble squishing then u r probably ok.

  9. #59
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    i've got a garden variety fox float R air shock..there is major squelching on compressing the shock...from this thread it looks like a fairly straight forward rebuild procedure...i have rebuilt my showa shock several times and know about getting air out of oil chamber...i kinda agree with beanbag suggestion on making sure air is out by cycling the damper head a couple times and topping off with more oil...but i'm a little leary on the nitrogen/air fill...i dont have access to N2 here, or the special fox needle tool...i was thinking of either making a homebrew needle thing or making a shrader valve to put in....anytips on making a needle, what guage is best...also anybody got a closeup of the rubber pellet and or dimensions of it..thanks
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  10. #60
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    Bumping old thread.
    Was working on my float r, trying to rig up a needle system for using just air.
    Was in my garage and a fitting caught my eye. On the fuel rail of 2.3 and 5.0 efi Ford's there is a removable fitting with a Schrader valve on it for checking and releasing fuel pressure. It has the correct size 5/16 24 to screw into the nitrogen port.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!-img_20121223_135030_3.jpg  


  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eville140 View Post
    Bumping old thread.
    Was working on my float r, trying to rig up a needle system for using just air.
    Was in my garage and a fitting caught my eye. On the fuel rail of 2.3 and 5.0 efi Ford's there is a removable fitting with a Schrader valve on it for checking and releasing fuel pressure. It has the correct size 5/16 24 to screw into the nitrogen port.
    Nice find

    I end up spending at least 15-20min bleeding the damper, ensuring I get all possible air out.

  12. #62
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    I've been looking for the schrader valve with correct thread, but it's almost impossible here in europe. So I'll probably stick with needle thing. I found one on amazon (as my post count is less than 10, I'm no atble to post link here) for $29.39 with shrader valve on the other end of needle. It might be a good and cheap alternative to fox safety needle.

    I also found some shock pumps which are claimed to 400psi, so I don't need nitrogen tank.

  13. #63
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    My shock pump's gauge went to 300, but I spun it around till it hit the stop at 0 . So it should be close to 400, week and a half later its still pressured up so the valve is holding good. Just wish it wasn't so snowy/muddy.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

  14. #64
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    I've been thinking the same, but I was afraid that it would damage barometer. Is there any place where I can buy the valve? It seems much easier than fiddling with needles

  15. #65
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    Not sure over there, but do you have auto salvage yards where you can buy used parts or pull them yourself? I bet all early Ford fuel injected motors use the same fitting. From about 1984-1993, possibly later. Very easy to get at from the top of the motor.


    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

  16. #66
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    Ford engines in europe have nothing common with US ford engines, so I don't see a chance here. Will test the needle from amazon.
    Thanks

  17. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eville140 View Post
    My shock pump's gauge went to 300, but I spun it around till it hit the stop at 0
    I found the Rav X Shock X pump online. It goes to 400 and has served me well.
    It also has a nice feature to allow you to close off the valve before removing the pump head.

  18. #68
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    How are you all bleeding the IFP pressure before dis-assembly? It looks like the fox instructions just say to remove the pellet retaining set screw slowly.

  19. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    ...remove the pellet retaining set screw slowly.
    ^^^ This. Back it out a couple of turns and you will hear the pressure release.

  20. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    How are you all bleeding the IFP pressure before dis-assembly? It looks like the fox instructions just say to remove the pellet retaining set screw slowly.
    That's what I did, not sure if mine was just super low, but it barely even made a sound.


    Also I did notice that using the little Ford adapter when you attach the pump it doesn't depress the valve. It takes about 40# before it opens and applies pressure to the shock. If you want to release air you have to remove the pump and manually press it.

    Sent from my SAMSUNG-SGH-I747 using Tapatalk 2

  21. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eville140 View Post
    That's what I did, not sure if mine was just super low, but it barely even made a sound.
    Cool. Not surprised that it didn't sound like much. The volume of the ifp chamber is super small. Just wanted to make sure its not going to shoot the pellet at me. Looking at changing the oil on a buddies Triad. It calls for 500psi but I'm guessing that is due to the lockout. He never uses his lockout so I think 400psi (hand pump) will be safe.

    When using a needle to fill, I'm guessing you just pull out the needle when done pressurizing?

  22. #72
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    I'm guessing you just pull out the needle when done pressurizing?
    You want to make yourself a slotted allen key so you can start tightening the pellet before you remove the needle.

  23. #73
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    Anyone know the oring sizes for the shaft (in seal head) and the IFP? Was hoping to get o rings before I tear it apart. Also what oil are you all using?

  24. #74
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    So, I thought the needle fitting on Motion Pro's website looked familiar. Its a NTA style fitting, an oring, and a 22ga luer lock needle. Probably 5$ in parts. The Parker # for the fitting is VS68NTA-4-2. I'll measure the oring.
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  25. #75
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    The oring for the needle fitting is a -008. See previous comment on details about needle fitting and needle size.

    The shock I'm working on for a buddy is a '10 Triad off of a Stumpjumper. It had a ton of air in the oil. Everything came apart pretty smoothly except for shooting the ifp fill pellet across the garage. Here is a list of all the seals. They are all Buna 70 unless otherwise noted.

    seal head -023
    shaft -110 (triad had a polyurethane 90, but a buna 70 should work)
    ifp -209
    air piston -218 quad (appears fox uses a special seal but this will work)
    air piston back up -218 split x2
    lower can -215 quad (fox uses a special seal but this will work)
    lower can back up -215 solid x2
    pellet for ifp .275 buna 70 cord cut .125 long


    I buy my orings from www.theoringstore.com

  26. #76
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    Do not use -218 quad on the air piston and the rebound needle does not use a -008 o-ring.

  27. #77
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    Do not use -218 quad on the air piston and the rebound needle does not use a -008 o-ring.
    Can you provide a little more detail on why a -218 won't work on the air piston? The -008 is not for the rebound needle, it is for the Motion Pro fill needle fitting (see previous post).

  28. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    Can you provide a little more detail on why a -218 won't work on the air piston? The -008 is not for the rebound needle, it is for the Motion Pro fill needle fitting (see previous post).
    If you use a -218 is is likely that air will leak into the negative chamber in the near future, this is why Fox made a custom quad ring after the wave of Float stuckdowns back in 2006.

  29. #79
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    Thanks tacubaya. So, I assume a -219 would be too big.

  30. #80
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    The -110 in 70 duro will be short lived. At a minimum, either tun a Quad ring or a 90 duro buna.

    Fax has had several variations on the air seal theme. Quads are your better choice, but honestly, for the inexpensive seal kit, why not just put the Fox seals in and be done for a while.

    Having rebuilt these and other Fox bicycle and moto products since long before seals were offered by Fox to the consumer, I have tested everything you propose, it will work and work well, just not as good or as long as the special Fox seals.

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  31. #81
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    Thanks for the info PMK. I agree, the Fox air sleeve kits are a good deal considering, but I figured why not save a few bucks since I was already ordering seals anyway.

    The reason I chose polyurethance for the shaft -110 was due to a Fox seal head assembly drawing I found and the seal in the shock I tore down was tan in color. I'm not an oring expert so I'm not sure of the difference between a buna 90 and a polyu 90, but I'm sure the buna is cheaper.

  32. #82
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    RP2 Float DRCV

    Hi all,

    I've read this thread and some others on the net ,got a bad surprise with my RP2. It was leaking air, just air, something like 100psi in 3 days.
    I ordered a seal rebuilt kit and opened the can.. i was changing the seals when suddenly some oil with bubbles comes from the propedal lever, i mean not just a drop... more like a small eruption.. (got a picture if someone want to see), it went out without a lot of pressure.
    Don't really know what i've done that started this, twisting the internal can ? Moving the propedal or the rebound lever .. ?

    Anyway, i've untightened the nitrogen chamber screw... and there was near no air in it.

    Now i need you..
    1 - I suppose that the (A), see picture, is dead... m i right ? Or can the oil (and nitro) go from the internal chamber to the lever throught an other way ?
    2 - I suppose.. again.. that the IFP seal is dead, because of the mixture of oil/bubble that flow throught the lever. m i right ?

    3 - Where can i found the seals for the IFP
    4 - The o-ring A, does it comes in a kit..? If no what are its specs ?



    5 - How many people here fit a Schrader valve with good results ? Does it held the 400psi ? Why do they put a system with needle, what are the advantages of it ? Less expensive ?

    Thanks for your help..

  33. #83
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    4 of my fox shocks I have made schrader valves for. Absolutely no issues holding at 350 psi so far. Been several years for a couple of shocks since charging the ifp.
    lean forward

  34. #84
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    @ 1niceride : Nice, tommorow i will try with a tractor schrader valve, a 'standard' valve is too small and rebuilding a 'thread' on it is not a viable solution. The tractor one got a 'standard' side and a bigger side that seems of to build the correct 'thread', the one that is on the Fox suspension (RP2)

    This is the part :


    1 - Remove the o-ring
    2 - Shave the bottom thread and get the diameter to 8mm
    4 - Create the new thread in place of the old one

    I get these part for free cause thay are throwing them away when changing tires...

    1niceride, are you using air in place of the nitrogen ? No problem, no mixing with the oil... ?

  35. #85
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    Air from your hand pump is 90% nitrogen. There is a separation piston called the ifp that keeps the oil out of the compensation chamber. The shock body is 5/16x24.
    lean forward

  36. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by 1niceride View Post
    Air from your hand pump is 90% nitrogen. There is a separation piston called the ifp that keeps the oil out of the compensation chamber. The shock body is 5/16x24.
    To be exact there is 75% of nitrogen in the air, 21% of oxygen and the rest in various gases.
    I've builded the valve today and will try it under pressure tommorow.

  37. #87
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    If you've got that :
    Name:  photo.jpg
Views: 4930
Size:  25.6 KB

    Then one o-ring is blasted...

    1 - I opened the RP2 completly, the smallest o-ring... the one that is just above the one labelled B

    X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!-drcvsvspcroring.png

    Is dead... i can not even find it, it is 'broken' in multiple parts... did someone got the specification of this ring..?

    The central hole is something like 2.7mm

    2 - Plus... i've lost the small ball that is on top of the central needle... someone got an idea wher i can find one ...? I thought of a bic pencil ?

    I've finished my fork (F-serie RL 120), open bath... it took 30 mins, very easy job.

  38. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by Honusnap View Post
    If you've got that :
    Name:  photo.jpg
Views: 4930
Size:  25.6 KB

    Then one o-ring is blasted...

    1 - I opened the RP2 completly, the smallest o-ring... the one that is just above the one labelled B

    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	drcvsvspcroring.png 
Views:	856 
Size:	35.1 KB 
ID:	783875

    Is dead... i can not even find it, it is 'broken' in multiple parts... did someone got the specification of this ring..?
    The central hole is something like 2.7mm

    2 - Plus... i've lost the small ball that is on top of the central needle... someone got an idea wher i can find one ...? I thought of a bic pencil ?

    I've finished my fork (F-serie RL 120), open bath... it took 30 mins, very easy job.
    O-ring spec: .050 C.S. x .154 ID

    FOX P/N: 029-05-105

    Tricky little bugger to insert

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    Hi cort,

    Thanks for your time, but it seems that you gave me the A ring .. no ?

    I'm talking about the C on this picture

    Name:  drcvsvspcroring.png
Views: 4425
Size:  180.2 KB

    If i'm not mistaken it should be something like 2.7mm ID

    I suppose that the dimension you gave me are in inch ?
    .050 C.S. x .154 ID => 1.27mm C.S. x 3.9116mm ID => Way too big...

    Or perhaps i missed something ?

    I used your reference to search on the web and found a russian website talking about the subject, and certainly found the one i need :

    FOX : 029-08-043 / 2,5mm ID x 1mm CS, Ring rod rebound

    Did someone have the diameter of the metal ball just above the C ring ? should be something like 1.2, 1.3 .. 1.4mm..
    Last edited by Honusnap; 03-24-2013 at 01:57 PM.

  40. #90
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    i'm having a hard time finding this particular size o-ring anywhere..did you buy it from fox?
    "He can make even a global summit meeting seem like a kegger." M. Dowd, NY Times, 19 July 2006

  41. #91
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    My bad... I really need to be a little more observant when looking at schematics

    Here's the specs: 2.5mm ID X 1mm CS

    X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!-rp2.jpg

  42. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamantane View Post
    i'm having a hard time finding this particular size o-ring anywhere..did you buy it from fox?
    I doubt FOX will help you with ordering new seals, however, there are ALOT of companies online that will be more than happy to sell you a few. Do a quick Google search in your area... you'll find them

  43. #93
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    There is a store not far from me, going to check if they sell this ring.

    I found this seller... it's a 25 rings package .. they are Nitrile ring like the stock one.

    eBay | BLACK RUBBER O RINGS METRIC 2.5 ID x 1.0MM THICK x 25

    @cort : No problem, it kind enought of you to have look the spec to help me out.
    Seems that the schematics you post is not for my shock but i suppose this ring is the same as mine. I got a DRCV RP2 (2010), mine got a second air chamber on the top. Looking at your shcematic i can see that the metal ball i need is 1.5mm ...

    Ok found the ball, dismantle an old hard drive and found a 1.4mm ball in a small ball bearing, it seems to fit well...
    Last edited by Honusnap; 03-25-2013 at 03:27 PM.

  44. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by cort View Post
    I doubt FOX will help you with ordering new seals, however, there are ALOT of companies online that will be more than happy to sell you a few. Do a quick Google search in your area... you'll find them
    sorry, i'm talking about this one .050 C.S. x .154 ID => 1.27mm C.S. x 3.9116mm ID
    kind of a wierd size and since it would take a full rebuild to get in there and change it again if it were wrong, would help to have the perfect one the first time...any ideas where to find it?
    Last edited by adamantane; 03-25-2013 at 04:51 PM. Reason: clustered up the sentences
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  45. #95
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    Something wrong ...

    Everything is in place .. two problems
    1- Propedal do not work anymore, on or off.. can't see the difference
    2 - The rebound works only a little AND seems to only work on the last half part of the travel.


    Here is my shim / washer / belleville assembly .... can somebody spot a problem ..?
    RP2 7.25x2.00 from a Trek Fuel EX 8 2010

    X-Post Fox RP3 - Unserviceable?!?!?!-img_20130325_190321.small.jpg


    Ps : Got two shims on the spring valve (not on the picture, perhaps called a needle, i do not know the name in english)

    Thanks

  46. #96
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    I'm curious about that BB that was replaced. When I remove a shim stack I always usually feed them over a wire or wire coat hanger to keep them in order. I have ADD so the wire is a must.

    What bleeding procedure did you follow? It is a real pita to get right and its easy to move that ifp while bleeding it if one is not careful. I betcha there is a lot of air in it. It took me 3 times with my rp3 to get it right. I use a hypo needle filled with oil through the bleed hole to rid the air now. Plus these pistons hold air even when set into oil cause of the preloaded shim stack. So one thinks they have all the air out until they cycle the shock and spill the air out of the piston.

    Make sure you plug the ifp air filler hole while bleeding to help hold the piston in place. You will find these shocks seem easy and fairly simple at first. After some time passes and you have it apart several times you will find these shocks are not so simple.
    Last edited by 1niceride; 03-27-2013 at 08:33 PM.
    lean forward

  47. #97
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    Thanks 1niceride, i'm also using a wire to keep shims/washer in the correct order.. the thing is that while dismantle the stack my elbow touch the wall .. and bliiinnnkkk .. all down on the ground ..
    Will dismantle it again and check for air but i can't see what the air can do to the propedal not working... plus i can't hear that there is air in the shock when trying it on the bike, no Shuiuliuuiluiluiluliuli... sound..

    Now the Bb is a little smaller than the original one... and this can make a difference, you're right... difference is at max a tenth of a milimeter.. perhaps i can add a preload shim on the spring valve...
    An other thing... i've used Motul Fork Oil 10w...

    To have a proper sag i need 200psi in the air chamber... that is pretty high (my weight is 165lbs)..

  48. #98
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    Solved ...
    The problem turns to be the pressure in the nitro chamber... do not know what i've done yesterday but there was no pressure there, the rubber joints under my schrader valve was to thick.. and i suppose it was closing the hole when the shrader was screwed in its place.
    The pressure was at 400psi.... but just between the rubber and the pump...
    I've now used a thinner joint and everything went well... propedal now works, the lever (propedal) is now consistent..
    Just have to pray for the pressure to stay in... now ...

    Thanks for your help..

  49. #99
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    I'm working on coverting a Triad shock off a 2010 Stumpjumper to an RP23 bv. physically, the body swap went without a hitch and everything is going to work as plan. However, the Triad is a 2" stroke shock reduced down to 1.8", so I have to remove the piston in the RP inorder to install the travel reducer. I've never worked on a boost valve shock before. Am I going to run into anything that I won't be able to get back together when I remove the piston from the shaft?

    Also, I'm having some trouble getting the RP bled. I've been submerging the piston in a cup of oil and aggitating before installing in the body. This removes a significant amount air. It feels good on the bench, but when I put it on the bike and cycle the shock a few times, it has a noticeable pocket of air in the damper. I'm assuming this is air trapped in the piston ports that doesn't dislodge until the compression shims/bv unseats. Any tips or tricks not already mentioned in this thread? I have had zero problems bleeding Monarchs.

  50. #100
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    Update: I recently got a new CTD shock service under warranty (sucked air into damper) and on the packing slip, Fox has the shaft seal listed as "O-ring [8.5mmID X 2.5mm CS]Metric, Polyurethane Parker 4300/92A, or DISOGRIN 9250/90A, dynamic". This must be a recent configuration change, as the 2008 drawings/parts list show the -110 oring. This is just an FYI. I will continue to use the -110 polyurethane 90.

    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    The oring for the needle fitting is a -008. See previous comment on details about needle fitting and needle size.

    The shock I'm working on for a buddy is a '10 Triad off of a Stumpjumper. It had a ton of air in the oil. Everything came apart pretty smoothly except for shooting the ifp fill pellet across the garage. Here is a list of all the seals. They are all Buna 70 unless otherwise noted.

    seal head -023
    shaft -110 (triad had a polyurethane 90, but a buna 70 should work)
    ifp -209
    air piston -218 quad (appears fox uses a special seal but this will work)
    air piston back up -218 split x2
    lower can -215 quad (fox uses a special seal but this will work)
    lower can back up -215 solid x2
    pellet for ifp .275 buna 70 cord cut .125 long


    I buy my orings from www.theoringstore.com

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