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  1. #1
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    New question here. Thoughts on new Fox air shocks?

    I'm looking to lighten up my bike and replace my CCDB with a Fox or X-Fusion air rear shock. The DBair didn't fit, so that's out.

    My bike is a Ventana 2012 El Ciclon and I'm running a Fox Van 36 RC2 on the front (I'm not replacing the fork, just the rear shock).

    The question is how good is the Float CTD? It looks like the kashima coating helps a lot with the rear shocks (from other riders say you can feel the difference with less stiction but this is the RP23 from 2013 not the CTD), and I'm hoping that's the case.

    The other question is it worth it to give the DHX air (the 2013) another shot? When I had one in 2005, it wallowed mid-stroke, and I wasn't sure if they've fixed that now or if I should stick with the Float CTD if that's the "gold standard."

    Then another shot was thrown to me is the X-Fusion Vector Air HLR. I have no knowledge about it. I'm also not going back to the Monarch Plus because that sucker was constantly getting rebuilt.

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    I'm looking to lighten up my bike and replace my CCDB with a Fox or X-Fusion air rear shock. The DBair didn't fit, so that's out.

    My bike is a Ventana 2012 El Ciclon and I'm running a Fox Van 36 RC2 on the front (I'm not replacing the fork, just the rear shock).

    The question is how good is the Float CTD? It looks like the kashima coating helps a lot with the rear shocks (from other riders say you can feel the difference with less stiction but this is the RP23 from 2013 not the CTD), and I'm hoping that's the case.

    The other question is it worth it to give the DHX air (the 2013) another shot? When I had one in 2005, it wallowed mid-stroke, and I wasn't sure if they've fixed that now or if I should stick with the Float CTD if that's the "gold standard."

    Then another shot was thrown to me is the X-Fusion Vector Air HLR. I have no knowledge about it. I'm also not going back to the Monarch Plus because that sucker was constantly getting rebuilt.
    I have owned Float's since there inception. I currently have a Kashima coated Adaptive Logic RP23. I don't think I have ever been blown away by a Floats performance especially when pitted against a coil shock. I too ran an older DHX A and wasn't impressed enough that i wouldn't seek one as a replacement. I have ridden X-Fusion air shocks and really like that they have a bit firmer compression *feel* than the Fox shocks. I'd vote for the HLR and give X-fusion a call about the application. Whenever I think RP23 and performance custom tune always comes to mind.

  3. #3
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    The 2013 Factory RP23 with the small volume air can is killer.
    I've got a lot of long descents on mine( many, many 5k+ drops with speed, chunk, and air time) and I am very happy with the performance on a light long travel bike( Nomad carbon with 180 Float).
    It is better than the DHX Airs of prior years=no mid stroke wallowing when correctly tuned.
    The 2013 RP23 has plenty of fluid in it and is set up to handle some serious descending.
    The 2013 Factory RP23 is better than the prior year RP23 with the high volume air can in my experience.
    With the RP23 and Fox air shocks in general, you need to get the correct compression and rebound tune at the least and you also have the option of having the boost valve pressure tuned as well.
    A lot of bikes are set up with RP23s with low tunes when they would be better served by having a medium compression and rebound tune.
    The RP23 will not perform like a coil, nor will it perform like a more gravity/DH oriented air shock.
    For a very light and "simple" air shock that can handle a lot of terrain, the 2013 Factory RP23 delivers when it is tuned to your preferences.

  4. #4
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    The best thing in my mind about Fox shocks is that PUSH can modify them. If you are not a 165 lb, 5'10" male, PUSH will improve the shock over stock and improve the overall ride.

  5. #5
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    Personally I would go for the DHX air. That shock will work brilliantly with the 36 Van you have up front. Have fun with that bike.
    Big Wheels Keep On Rolling

    Forth Eorlingas!

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Clydesdale View Post
    The 2013 Factory RP23 with the small volume air can is killer.
    I've got a lot of long descents on mine( many, many 5k+ drops with speed, chunk, and air time) and I am very happy with the performance on a light long travel bike( Nomad carbon with 180 Float).
    It is better than the DHX Airs of prior years=no mid stroke wallowing when correctly tuned.
    The 2013 RP23 has plenty of fluid in it and is set up to handle some serious descending.
    The 2013 Factory RP23 is better than the prior year RP23 with the high volume air can in my experience.
    With the RP23 and Fox air shocks in general, you need to get the correct compression and rebound tune at the least and you also have the option of having the boost valve pressure tuned as well.
    A lot of bikes are set up with RP23s with low tunes when they would be better served by having a medium compression and rebound tune.
    The RP23 will not perform like a coil, nor will it perform like a more gravity/DH oriented air shock.
    For a very light and "simple" air shock that can handle a lot of terrain, the 2013 Factory RP23 delivers when it is tuned to your preferences.
    Interesting.. I would agree with you on the low tune. I'm not a fan of that on any shock. I'm not looking for a shock to feel at all like the CCDB or a coil--looking for more of a snappy feel in the back.

    Are you saying you've ridden the new DHX Air? Or are you coming the new Float CTD with the DHX Air of the past?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    The best thing in my mind about Fox shocks is that PUSH can modify them. If you are not a 165 lb, 5'10" male, PUSH will improve the shock over stock and improve the overall ride.
    Good point on the RP23 and Push. Definitely something I could consider in the future, but maybe I could order a pretuned shock from them since I already know what I want.

    Quote Originally Posted by CannondaleF9 View Post
    Personally I would go for the DHX air. That shock will work brilliantly with the 36 Van you have up front. Have fun with that bike.
    Have you ridden the new ones? The old ones (2007 and earlier) really sucked. I was not that impressed with them and ended up going to the coil.

    My Van 36 RC2 and the Monarch Plus I'm borrowing seem to be very well paired together. I'm curious to why you feel the DHX Air would be a better fit than the new Float CTD.

    Quote Originally Posted by keen
    I have owned Float's since there inception. I currently have a Kashima coated Adaptive Logic RP23. I don't think I have ever been blown away by a Floats performance especially when pitted against a coil shock. I too ran an older DHX A and wasn't impressed enough that i wouldn't seek one as a replacement. I have ridden X-Fusion air shocks and really like that they have a bit firmer compression *feel* than the Fox shocks. I'd vote for the HLR and give X-fusion a call about the application. Whenever I think RP23 and performance custom tune always comes to mind.
    I've thought about the X-fusion, but if they're having supply issues and I can't get it until after 1/16, it's definitely a no-go. I have to give my friend his shock back before 1/16.

  7. #7
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    Ridden new DHX as well.
    New DHX isn't all that "new".
    The 2013 RP23 is pretty trick and better than the DHX once the tune is adjusted to your weight and riding preference.
    If snappy is what you want, then it's a 2013 RP23 medium tune with increased boost valve pressure+ Fox's new mounting hardwear.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Clydesdale View Post
    Ridden new DHX as well.
    New DHX isn't all that "new".
    The 2013 RP23 is pretty trick and better than the DHX once the tune is adjusted to your weight and riding preference.
    If snappy is what you want, then it's a 2013 RP23 medium tune with increased boost valve pressure+ Fox's new mounting hardwear.
    What's different about their new mounting hardware? Is it more like the Cane Creek where it's a bar with end pieces than two pieces compressed together?

  9. #9
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    New Fox hardware compared to old Fox hardware is night and day difference.
    Much less friction and no tools needed for replacement after initial install.
    Cane Creek is better than old Fox hardware-it seemed to last longer before developing knock.
    Can't tell a real difference yet between CC and new Fox.
    All new 2013 Fox has new hardware and it's a big step up for Fox.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Clydesdale View Post
    New Fox hardware compared to old Fox hardware is night and day difference.
    Much less friction and no tools needed for replacement after initial install.
    Cane Creek is better than old Fox hardware-it seemed to last longer before developing knock.
    Can't tell a real difference yet between CC and new Fox.
    All new 2013 Fox has new hardware and it's a big step up for Fox.
    Cool, I'll use my CC mounting hardware.

    So the tune values for the RP23/Float CTD for my bike are:
    velocity tune L
    rebound tune M
    boost valve tune 200

    Which tune value were you referring to that's too low? I don't remember there being so many tune values on the RP23.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    Cool, I'll use my CC mounting hardware.

    So the tune values for the RP23/Float CTD for my bike are:
    velocity tune L
    rebound tune M
    boost valve tune 200

    Which tune value were you referring to that's too low? I don't remember there being so many tune values on the RP23.
    RP23 can have independent tunes for compression and rebound. L/M/H for each.
    Try velocity/compression M+ rebound M +200 Boost.
    The small volume can makes a difference compared to the high volume cans of prior model years. 2013 RP23s are stock with smaller can.
    Last edited by Norman Clydesdale; 12-30-2012 at 09:13 PM.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Norman Clydesdale View Post
    RP23 can have independent tunes for compression and rebound. L/M/H for each.
    Try velocity/compression M+ rebound M +200 Boost.
    The small volume can makes a difference compared to the high volume cans of prior model years. 2013 RP23s are stock with smaller can.
    Thanks, so velocity tune is compression tune.

    I thought the point of having a high volume can increases the tunability of the shock. Why go with a low volume can.

  13. #13
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    If you are on a properly setup CCDB coil going to a fixed tuned RP23 could feel like two steps back. My current Trek Remedy had a CCDB coil and the only reason I went air was for a pedalling platform. Getting a stock RP23 w/ the optimum OE tune for your personal preferences is a roll of the dice. Personally I would wait for adjustable performance vs. putting on an oe tune & then possibly having to send it for a custom tune.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    If you are on a properly setup CCDB coil going to a fixed tuned RP23 could feel like two steps back. My current Trek Remedy had a CCDB coil and the only reason I went air was for a pedalling platform. Getting a stock RP23 w/ the optimum OE tune for your personal preferences is a roll of the dice. Personally I would wait for adjustable performance vs. putting on an oe tune & then possibly having to send it for a custom tune.
    As much as I like the CCDB's adjustability, I like having two less 2 lbs on my AM bike. Also, the DBair doesn't fit.. already tried it.

    So my options are other shocks. The Monarch Plus is great, but after having problems with it earlier, I'm not sure I want to buy another one. So I know Fox and X-Fusion produce good shocks, so I'm looking that direction.

  15. #15
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    I've run a retuned 2012 Factory RP23 and an X-Fusion Vector Air HLR on my Yeti SB-66 on some pretty serious all-mountain type terrain.

    Back in the summer I spent a month in the Alps. The girlfirend's Bos Vip'R blew up in the first week, so I swapped the X-Fusion onto her bike and I'd brought along the RP23 as a spare so that went on the Yeti. My RP23 had previously been retuned from original Yeti spec by Mojo (UK importer): Compression M / Rebound M / 175 Boost valve.

    Fork was a Bos Deville.

    On runs where I was getting a lot of airtime, I could use the propedal to tune out the kick from the backend. This usually meant Propedal 2. On runs where I was hitting a lot of chunk I needed a more open setting to keep the flow and keep from being bounced off the pedals; usually Propedal 0 or 1.

    Given these constraints, the RP23 was perfectly acceptable. I was caning descents and the shock was not holding me back.

    I'm now using the X-Fusion on a daily basis and have spent the last week hitting the Scottish 7stanes trail centres. I've tweaked the X-fusion to my liking and especially like the piggy-back volume adjust - it has been possible to tune out the wallow coming off berms and now it is really easy to get back on the gas early. The vector HLR generally has a more solid compression feel than the Fox, so I am running the compression circuits fairly open and it seems like a good compomise for everything I'm hitting. I've similarly found the threshold settings on the Bos Deville where it keeps a good bit of liveliness and is well-matched with the X-Fusion shock.

    The Yeti has an excellent linkage based pedalling performance, so the absence of propedal is unimportant and pedalling is still excellent. The same would go for VPP, high single pivots, DW-Link and other similar pedalling suspensions. Propedal is probably still a good idea for Horst link type frames.

    The girlfriend is facing issues with a Comp L / Rebound L / 175 Boost RP23 not being up to the job on her mojo HD. We've tried changing shock volume but the answer needs to be a retune.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stripes View Post
    Thanks, so velocity tune is compression tune.

    I thought the point of having a high volume can increases the tunability of the shock. Why go with a low volume can.
    The low volume can is different for 2013.
    Shock air volume isn't wholly dependent on the can sleeve in 2013.
    The shock eyelet now contains the air volume formerly found in the XV air can.
    The combination of 2013 air sleeve + shock eyelet air volume does what an XV can was intended to do, but it does it better.
    Also, the new 2013 LV sleeves are single wall and this is supposed to help the shock run cooler.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by petercarm View Post
    I've run a retuned 2012 Factory RP23 and an X-Fusion Vector Air HLR on my Yeti SB-66 on some pretty serious all-mountain type terrain.

    Back in the summer I spent a month in the Alps. The girlfirend's Bos Vip'R blew up in the first week, so I swapped the X-Fusion onto her bike and I'd brought along the RP23 as a spare so that went on the Yeti. My RP23 had previously been retuned from original Yeti spec by Mojo (UK importer): Compression M / Rebound M / 175 Boost valve.

    Fork was a Bos Deville.

    On runs where I was getting a lot of airtime, I could use the propedal to tune out the kick from the backend. This usually meant Propedal 2. On runs where I was hitting a lot of chunk I needed a more open setting to keep the flow and keep from being bounced off the pedals; usually Propedal 0 or 1.

    Given these constraints, the RP23 was perfectly acceptable. I was caning descents and the shock was not holding me back.

    I'm now using the X-Fusion on a daily basis and have spent the last week hitting the Scottish 7stanes trail centres. I've tweaked the X-fusion to my liking and especially like the piggy-back volume adjust - it has been possible to tune out the wallow coming off berms and now it is really easy to get back on the gas early. The vector HLR generally has a more solid compression feel than the Fox, so I am running the compression circuits fairly open and it seems like a good compomise for everything I'm hitting. I've similarly found the threshold settings on the Bos Deville where it keeps a good bit of liveliness and is well-matched with the X-Fusion shock.

    The Yeti has an excellent linkage based pedalling performance, so the absence of propedal is unimportant and pedalling is still excellent. The same would go for VPP, high single pivots, DW-Link and other similar pedalling suspensions. Propedal is probably still a good idea for Horst link type frames.

    The girlfriend is facing issues with a Comp L / Rebound L / 175 Boost RP23 not being up to the job on her mojo HD. We've tried changing shock volume but the answer needs to be a retune.
    Ok, this is making me lean towards the X-Fusion. I don't like the low tunes, even though I think everyone else who rides a Ventana does. I do like running the Monarch Plus with a mid-tune but it would be nice to fine tune it more.

    The Ventana linkage is excellent, and it's a high single pivot, but that said, I like the snappy feel rather than the cush DH feel in the back. Still, it would be nice to tune depending on the ride, and with long climbs I do like the propedal.

    It sounds like the X-Fusion might be a better fit so I'm not playing musical tunings. I'll give Push a call in the next few days to see what they think of the tunes with the RP23 and what I'm looking for. Also, I'll see the availability of the X-Fusion.

  18. #18
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    I'm in the market for a vector, I've found that there is little to no stock for the '12s and the 13's haven't yet hit the shelves. The only place I've found them in stock is here:

    X Fusion Vector Air HLR - Go-Ride.com Bicycle Shop, Salt Lake City, Utah.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by honns View Post
    I'm in the market for a vector, I've found that there is little to no stock for the '12s and the 13's haven't yet hit the shelves. The only place I've found them in stock is here:

    X Fusion Vector Air HLR - Go-Ride.com Bicycle Shop, Salt Lake City, Utah.
    Yep, and that's why I ended up going to a new Fox Float CTD (all with mid-tune). The DHX air is not ideal for my bike because of its pivot position, so that will be in around the 10th or 11th of this month.

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