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  1. #1
    Daniel the Dog
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    Selling a Black is like selling ice to an Eskimo!

    I have a 2003 Black Elite 100/120 in the classifieds that just won't sell. If it was a Fox I would have sold it in the first 10 minutes. I know they get sold cheap, but I'm only asking $180 shipped. Weird.

    Manitou is making much better forks these days. They just get no respect!

    Jaybo

  2. #2
    GDR
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    Super Air

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I have a 2003 Black Elite 100/120 in the classifieds that just won't sell. If it was a Fox I would have sold it in the first 10 minutes. I know they get sold cheap, but I'm only asking $180 shipped. Weird.

    Manitou is making much better forks these days. They just get no respect!

    Jaybo
    I feel your pain. I have a 2002 Black Super Air which is a great fork but on my new bike I decided to get a Fox. My friend is trying it out on his Superlight and if he likes it I am trading it to him for a used snowboard.

  3. #3
    Still chuggin' along
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    Bah, don't say that! I was thinking of selling my Black Super Air in a month or so and trying out a Minute 1 or Firefly.

  4. #4
    Daniel the Dog
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    Laugh. Manitou makes good forks now. Really....

    Quote Originally Posted by kpicha
    Bah, don't say that! I was thinking of selling my Black Super Air in a month or so and trying out a Minute 1 or Firefly.
    A Minute 1 sounds like it would be very cool. The SPV thing is quite intriguing; however, I'm a cheap bugger and they are still too much dough.

    Do you think the Firefly would lift your XCE up too much? I bought and sold one a while back. I could barely sell that turkey. Only made like $40 on it. I should have learned.

    www.greenfishsports.com has the 03 Firefly on sale for $300, if you are a price conscious consumer. I was impressed by the quality of that fork. Nice. I would have loved to have ridden it, but my Blade would have hated the rise up front. The 5 Spot should be able to handle it.

    Good luck. I guess you and I, and Dougal, are they only ones who like these Manitou's on this planet. I used to hate 'em.

    Jaybo
    Last edited by Jaybo; 02-22-2004 at 08:35 AM.

  5. #5
    Still chuggin' along
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    lol-yeah, they're not the "in" forks but my Super Air has been working fine for me but I think I need something a little stiffer.

    You're probably right about the Firefly being too high. I was hoping it could be ridden in a 120 mode but I read in another post that winding down the travel on that fork really sets the preload tight. Supposedly, the Minutes don't change like that.
    Thanks for the tip on the Greenfishsports. I should have known to look there since I got my Saris Bones rack for next to nothing a couple of years ago.

  6. #6
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    I like mine...

    However, I bought it brand new, unused for under $100. It's an Elite 100/120...

  7. #7
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    sure....

    "Manitou is making much better forks these days."
    Ever re-build it? Take it apart and you will find that it is about 80% plastic.

  8. #8
    Daniel the Dog
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    Where did you find it new for $100?

    Quote Originally Posted by slowride
    However, I bought it brand new, unused for under $100. It's an Elite 100/120...
    Just wondering. A great deal.

    Jaybo

  9. #9
    Chrome Toaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by dthomp325@yahoo.com
    "Manitou is making much better forks these days."
    Ever re-build it? Take it apart and you will find that it is about 80% plastic.
    Uhm yes, I have. Several of them as a matter of fact. They actually have the least plastic parts I have seen in many forks. As a matter of fact the only plastic parts I can really think of are the bottom caps that hold the stuff inside the stanctions and even then I think the newer models have them made of metal, I'll need to check. Other than that everything else is nicely made out of metal and screws in neatly so it can be easily serviced unlike many other brands who use cheap annoying snap rings and plastic parts to hold things together. Its amazing the ignorance people have when buying these forks. They will gladly buy Skarebs, Shermans, or single out certain black models not realizing that Manitou's entire line are internally identical for the most part and haven't changed much in the last 3 years. The only things that change are the stanction widths and castings. The new SPV series such as the Minutes which people will now buy due to all the SPV fuzz is exactly the same fork as the Black Super many would have never considered only with a slightly wider crown and the TPC damping piston swaped for an SPV damping piston in the right leg, same goes for all the others.
    I have a 120mm Super 04 which is basically brand new and need to sell it because I ended up changing frames and need an 80 or 100mm version instead. The fork was only tested on the road twice and is as good as brand new yet no one even wants to pay 1/2 of what its worth new. I might as well not even bother selling it. Its too bad because I think the black is one of the most underrated forks out there. They have one of the smoothest feels of any fork I've tried, are quite simple and easy to maintain.

  10. #10
    Daniel the Dog
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    Manitou's used to suck but they are rocking now....

    Quote Originally Posted by Hecubus
    Uhm yes, I have. Several of them as a matter of fact. They actually have the least plastic parts I have seen in many forks. As a matter of fact the only plastic parts I can really think of are the bottom caps that hold the stuff inside the stanctions and even then I think the newer models have them made of metal, I'll need to check. Other than that everything else is nicely made out of metal and screws in neatly so it can be easily serviced unlike many other brands who use cheap annoying snap rings and plastic parts to hold things together. Its amazing the ignorance people have when buying these forks. They will gladly buy Skarebs, Shermans, or single out certain black models not realizing that Manitou's entire line are internally identical for the most part and haven't changed much in the last 3 years. The only things that change are the stanction widths and castings. The new SPV series such as the Minutes which people will now buy due to all the SPV fuzz is exactly the same fork as the Black Super many would have never considered only with a slightly wider crown and the TPC damping piston swaped for an SPV damping piston in the right leg, same goes for all the others.
    I have a 120mm Super 04 which is basically brand new and need to sell it because I ended up changing frames and need an 80 or 100mm version instead. The fork was only tested on the road twice and is as good as brand new yet no one even wants to pay 1/2 of what its worth new. I might as well not even bother selling it. Its too bad because I think the black is one of the most underrated forks out there. They have one of the smoothest feels of any fork I've tried, are quite simple and easy to maintain.
    I have even thought of building a freeride HT with the Elite on the front. Would be cool. Marketing is such an impactful thing. You get guys in the industry who make broad sweeping statements, I won't name names, and everyone follows them like they are the pied piper.

    The Fox Vanilla actually has a rather crude dampening system compared to the Elite. Do I think it is a better fork then the Elite? Tough to beat that fork for durability and performance; however, I bet a guy would be hard pressed to definately state the Elite is inferior to it.

    Jaybo

  11. #11
    theHeadlessThompsonGunner
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    Actually...

    Manitous, or at least my Black Elite, was full to the brim with plastic parts. The whole damper circuit is made of small stacks of thin washers on plastic flow-regulators. The topcap on the damper circuit side was plastic (this I think was a bit silly), as were all the adjusters.

    That said, it's all made of incredibly high quality plastic, and it would be prohibitively expensive to make it of anything else. The only thing approaching the advancement of Manitou dampers are Fox Terralogic forks, and I think much of the activation in there is made of plastic, too. Machining some of the bits in the TPC+ damper circuit (from aluminum), if possible, would border freakishly expensive. As such, you get the most technologically-advanced damper available at a reasonable price. And, as a result, because it is 'advanced', it is NOT easy to tune, but is easy to maintain.

    Anyone who avoids or knocks Manitou product because it has some plastic in it is just plain ignorant (see above--not you, Hecubus). Manitous that fail do not do so because of their plastic content, just as Foxes and Marzocchis do not fail because of their aluminum internals.

    While Manitou's damper is perhaps the most technologically advanced, that isn't to say it works the best or feels the smoothest. Zokes are my digs, but it's purely because of personal preference, and not because something else sucks, or is made of plastic, if even entirely. Ever see The Graduate? plastics
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  12. #12
    Chrome Toaster
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    Quote Originally Posted by SDizzle
    Manitous, or at least my Black Elite, was full to the brim with plastic parts. The whole damper circuit is made of small stacks of thin washers on plastic flow-regulators. The topcap on the damper circuit side was plastic (this I think was a bit silly), as were all the adjusters.
    You're right, some of the 02's and 03's did come with some plastic on the damper side but mostly in some of the non critical no - wear components. I have an 03 sport in one of my bikes and only the daming side top can was plastic, the rest was metal though. All of the 04's I've seen so far are almost entirely metal though. Personally I've had experience with a lot of Rock Shox and Marzocchi's, and a little bit of Fox. Compared to them the Manitou forks are so stupid easy to open up and service. All you need is an 8mm allen and an adjustable wrench and anyone can easily break the fork down in seconds. Setting the oil is incredibly simple too. Just dump the old out, wipe the damping rod clean if you want and reapply and measure with a dipstick. No needing to pump the damper to squeeze out old oil, or PURE systems to have to painstakingly bleed of air and assemble with extreme care. The air piston side is nothing more than a rubber coated piston than glides on a small bath of heavy oil. No cracked or worn o-rings to worry about. Its just all really simple to work with. Rock Shox is by far the most notorios for using cheap plastic parts and snap rings all over their forks. Servicing them is by far the biggest pain in the ass. The have definately improved in the last year since SRAM bought them but I remember just about everything on my 02 and pre RS Psylo's and Sids that wasn't either a spring or compresion rod of some sort was made of plastic, even both of the top caps in many models. The zocchi's are superbly made but they are somewhat tedious to work on in comparison.
    I'm the kind of person many people would consider crazy because the first thing I do when I get a new fork is open it up and tear it down, then reinstall and re-oil to make sure everything is set right. You'd be amazed at how inconsistant some of these forks come. They oil levels are completely off a lot of the time, I have even found metal shavings left from manufacturing inside the oil bath of some, and some downright broken parts right of the bat. You really learn a lot by doing fork service yourself. Its only then you realize how much BS there is in a lot of the marketing out there and how forks that are supposedly highend are that much more expensive even though they are essentially the same or even simpler than some much cheaper low end models.
    I'm glad I discovered Manitou Blacks, an it was pretty much by accident. I was one of those who thought they looked kinda lame. I was one day looking for a cheap replacement shock for one of my bikes. I stumbled upon a cheap Black on ebay so I got it figuring even if it wasn't that great, for the price it would be acceptable. All of my rides had either Z1's, Psylo's, or SID's. When I tried the fork on the trail at was AMAZED at how great if felt and how smooth it was. I've since sold my Uzzi SLX so I no longer have the Z1 and all my other rides now have either Blacks or a Minute. I am now a believer in Manitou. I'd like to try a Sherman someday soon now.

  13. #13
    theHeadlessThompsonGunner
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    I'll repeat myself...

    Blacks are easy to maintain, and to service, but very difficult to tune. The second you start messing with washer stacks and flow-regulation, you're playing with fire. I really like the internals of my Z1 SL: air, and a rebound chamber with a hole in either end. Not much I can screw up, as I do do all my own work (and tend to dismantle everything before riding it, just the same as you!). Damper circuits like Manitou's, for as well as they work, are very hard to work on. And, when they go, they really go--completely slack or hard as a rock.

    And yes, it's well known Zoke's need their oil checked out of the box, and regularly after that. But it's all part of the fun!
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  14. #14
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    Agree with manitou rulez thing...

    I have a black elite air w. lockout and hope to keep it running long. Previously I had a Magura quake air and it was simply wasted money. I am better off buying second hand black than new magura fork. Just got a second hand Mars elite 2001 for my sister for ridiculous price of an RST or a ballistic here in Poland.

    greetings
    Przemek

  15. #15
    We get titles?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    I have a 2003 Black Elite 100/120 in the classifieds that just won't sell. If it was a Fox I would have sold it in the first 10 minutes. I know they get sold cheap, but I'm only asking $180 shipped. Weird.

    Manitou is making much better forks these days. They just get no respect!

    Jaybo
    The market is flooded. Anybody who's ridden a black lately knows they're great forks. But the market is flooded. You can get them new on EBAY for $200.
    I dunno if Manitou made too many of them or what, but they're all over the internet and cheap.

  16. #16
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    I got it...

    Quote Originally Posted by Jaybo
    Just wondering. A great deal.

    Jaybo

    I got it from the classifieds at another site. I was really happy with the price, considering I previously paid almost double that for a first-year Black Comp.

    I keep coming back to Manitou... I've had a Xvert Super (still my favorite), then the Comp (my least favorite), then a Sherman Flick (nice but heavy for the riding I do), and now the Elite. In between I had a Stratos (utter garbage) and a Marzocchi Marathon (nice enough, but I sold the bike it was on).

    I like Manitous the best because they have easily available ride kits. I needed something heavier for the Marz. and instead of a kit made for it, I had to put in some other spring not made for the application (on the indirect advice of Marz.). But with Manitou I can pretty much count on just calling up Speedgoat and spending $25 (I have for every Manitou I've owned).

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