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  1. #101
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    no, slower the better. I open the rebound/comp clicker all the way.
    Ok, I'll give that a go and see what happens. Thanks for the help. I really don't want to send it to rockshox just because there is a knock, hopefully i can figure out what it is.

  2. #102
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    Shim Stack Tech

    I think the article on the DVO suspension website will be helpfull to understand Shim Stack Tech clearly. (Sorry I could not attach the exact link because of my limitation.)

    By the way, I need HH or MH tuned Monarch for my 2.94:1 Leverage Ratio Frame but hard to get one.
    So I am planning to buy MM one but is there much difference between Monarch RT and RT3?
    I think RT can do more fine external tune on Low Speed Compression but what is the pros of RT3 beside it can handle 3-step LSC on the fly?
    If RT3 makes things difficult to tune, I would like to have RT one.

    I am struggling to get valving shims to tune Shim Stacks, because the former link might not ship them worldwide...

  3. #103
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    2013 rt3

    After ordering the six mm shims to change my medium 2013 rt3 to a low tune, I opened it up to find that the new ones are totally different. Notice six shims in the stack. One is an inner shim with another one around it. Anyone have any shim stack info on these new ones? I couldn't get accurate thickness measurements with my plastic caliper, but they are 9mm ID.

    The stack starts at the nut, up the right column, then up the left column.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-2013_rt3.jpg  


  4. #104
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    2013 RT3 is quite different

    I heard that Monarch RT3 had big modify in 2013 from Rockshox or other articles online.
    And the brand-new look shims are the exact ones that makes difference, I think.

    According to the spare parts list from Rockshox, the main piston options on RT3(2011-2012) are shown like below.

    Main Piston, Tune Rebound-High/Compression-High3 - Monarch RT3/RT/R

    But only the ones of RT3 2013 shown individually as

    Tune Assembly 2013 Monarch RT3 MH F 320
    (mid rebound, high compression, firm threshold)

    This may reveal that only the RT3 has got "threshold" feature instead of using Platform Damping Shim Stack, like L3/M3/H3, since 2013.
    I am thinking "F 320" means FIRM and it has the breaking point when the pressure is 320[PSI].
    It looks like Rockshox has applied the new feature which is similar to Boost Valve settings on FOX Float.

    Rockshox claims that Monarch RT3 2013 has got greatly refined the damper to provide independent tuning in the three adjustment positions.
    It means that the open is more open, the lock has more lock, is desired by Europe style riding scene.

    For sure the brand-new numbers of shims, orders and accurate thickness information are helpful but could not find online right now.
    Will be excited if we can see the measurement results here.

  5. #105
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    I'll tell a little tuning story for you.

    A friend of mine bought a Commencal Super 4 and a Monarch RT3 shock for it.
    Well it turned out that the shock was horrible in that bike. So he bought a Fox Float RP23
    and had it Pushed. It worked well and he was happy. I told him that the Monarch can not be
    that bad, or at least it can be tuned to work much better than it had. He told me what he
    wanted to be changed in the shock; way less compression damping and more rebound damping.
    I made some changes and he tried them out. Compression damping was now better, but the
    shock blew too easily through its middle stroke. Rebound damping was better but clicker had
    to be too close to the minimum setting.

    So, what to do with the middle stroke dive. I came with an idea that I tried with my RP23 Boostvalve shock.
    Since there are shims in the compression side of things only in the LSC, which some in
    my opinion falsely have said to be only check valves, it was only place to tamper with them.
    I added an crossover there and it seemed to work.

    So it was my plan to try that with the Monarch also. I also fine tuned the rebound.
    And it worked. My friend was very pleased. He said that the Monarch was now very close
    in performance to the Pushed RP23.

    The compression tune was about the low tune of Rock Shox.
    And the low speed compression shims were:
    20 x 0,1
    13 x 0,1
    10 x 0,2
    18 x 0,15
    16 x 0,15

    I also made the same changes to a Nuke Proof Megas Monarch but that has only seen
    parking lot testing so far but it feels quite promising.

    Oh and the original tunes were M/M on the Super 4 and M/H3 on the Mega.

  6. #106
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    Wow, the DVO site is pretty informative on this topic. I actually have a customer's RC3+ in for some tuning right now. He has a Blur LT and the shock has the MM tune. The problem he is having is the rebound speed is too slow, even in the fastest setting. The service dept. is fairly slow right now, so I told him I would happily try to improve the performance.

    Even though most of you are working with the RT shock, I've found this thread to be super helpful. I actually have a small stash of shims at home, but for now I might just remove one to see how much of a difference it makes.

    I have a question for you guys who are doing this on a more regular basis.....are there any good books out there that I can learn from? I know it's a lot of trial and error if you don't have an engineering degree and a dyno, but those two things aren't gonna happen for me anytime soon, so I was hoping for a "working-man's" approach to this. Years ago, in my brief moto-mechanic career I found a lot of good reading on the moto side, but nothing purely on suspension.

    Thanks in advance

  7. #107
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    Second Moment of Area

    Yes, DVO is the best site to understand on shim stack technology.
    They don't show actual numbers on those shims right now but they will in the near future.
    Wait until they sell their shocks or study a little bit on "Second Moment of Area" might help you.

    If you could tell me the shim dimensions, like Inner Diameter and Outer Diameter on shims, someone could calculate the actual value of Second Moment of Area on each shims.

    I hope DVO makes smaller sized shocks...

  8. #108
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    Rebound needle may be stuck...

    Ok, so I just removed a shim from the rebound stack for a quick test and started to reassemble it. when bleeding the air out, the rebound is almost totally locked, and I can barely pull the shock to full extension. I saw that it was KTM520 I believe that had a rebound needle that was too long. Possibly mine is jammed now.

    Has anyone removed the needle on the Monarch RC3 Plus? I saw some were doing it on the RT model, but this appears to be pretty different.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    btw, where can we order shims?
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  10. #110
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    Has anybody been able to measure the compressionshims on the 2013 monarch?

  11. #111
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    I was planning to remove a .1 shim out of my MM tune RT3 to improve small bump performance on the compression side. But then the shim stack has changed.

    Any info about different shim setup for M and L compression on the 2013 RT3?

    And how to improve the 2013 model?

  12. #112
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    I posted this on another thread but thought you would be interested as well.

    Shim ReStackor, Finally software to tune a shim stack

    These are the 2012 Monarch details. I don't think there was a change for '13 but don't quote me.

    l tune comp: LS valve - 22x.15, 22x.10, 22x.15
    m tune comp: LS valve - 22x.20 then 4 22x.10
    m tune reb: 15x.10 then 14x.20

    mk

  13. #113
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    I have a 2013 RT3 also and many things have changed on it compare to the 2012 one, not only the shim but even the casing.I have a 2013 RT3 also and many things have changed on it compare to the 2012 one, not only the shim but even the casing.

  14. #114
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    Anyone knows the different between a M / L compression tune on a 2013 RT3?

    Or has experience with tuning the 2013 RT3 shim stack?

    I am looking for better small bump performance / more plush ride. I have lowered the IFP pressure according to this great thread.

  15. #115
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    Why don't you try Crossover Stack?

  16. #116
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    UPDATE to my problem of slow rebound and air-oil mix noise on my RC3 Plus: I FOUND THE PROBLEM !!! It's the IFP (internal floating piston) reservoir that was not presurize at the recommanded 250PSI. Go to the RockShox site to dowload the maintenance manual. You will need a schrader removal tool and a air adaptator to inflate the IFP reservoir. Now no more noise and a really faster rebound !!!
    It's not the RT3 but the +RC3 but anyway has I had already complained in this thread I thought I should let you know.
    On my RT3 no problem from now but there is also an IFP, not in a piggyback indeed but in the main core.
    Laurent

  17. #117
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    Quote Originally Posted by cesper View Post
    Wow, the DVO site is pretty informative on this topic. I actually have a customer's RC3+ in for some tuning right now. He has a Blur LT and the shock has the MM tune. The problem he is having is the rebound speed is too slow, even in the fastest setting. The service dept. is fairly slow right now, so I told him I would happily try to improve the performance.

    Even though most of you are working with the RT shock, I've found this thread to be super helpful. I actually have a small stash of shims at home, but for now I might just remove one to see how much of a difference it makes.

    I have a question for you guys who are doing this on a more regular basis.....are there any good books out there that I can learn from? I know it's a lot of trial and error if you don't have an engineering degree and a dyno, but those two things aren't gonna happen for me anytime soon, so I was hoping for a "working-man's" approach to this. Years ago, in my brief moto-mechanic career I found a lot of good reading on the moto side, but nothing purely on suspension.

    Thanks in advance
    This book is excellent - Suspension Bible

  18. #118
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    Hi,

    I have a Monarch RT3 2014 shock with M/M default tune. But I need more end progression.

    Has one of you guys tuned the Monarch with a L3, M3 or H3 tune and can explain the difference to the standard L, M and H tunes?

    Thanks and regards
    mat

  19. #119
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    Hi,

    Rockshox says that "L, M,and H are platform tunes, while L3, M3, and H3 are progressive compression tunes" in their Compression Tune Reference Chart.

    So if you need platform tunes, tune your Monarch into M3 tune.
    But now, you want more end progression, so tune your IFP pressure.
    You can get the adaptor sold by RS then increase the pressure.

    I've tuned my monarch's IFP from 110[PSI] to 200[PSI].
    Now it feels good while riding, especially in doing manual.

  20. #120
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    I think it's regarding a kit with which you could reduce the air volume of the HV (High Volume) canister: less air volume, more end progression. I have bought this kit on ebay but I'm not at home so can't give you the reference. You will find it on the sram.com site in the exploded view of the RT3 2013 with parts number.
    I didn't use mine for now because on my Tallboy LTC with standard M/M I won't reach the bottom out with a 30% sag. It really depends of the bike cinematic
    Have a good ride in Switzerland
    Laurent

  21. #121
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    L3, M3 and H3 tunes use pyramidal shimstack
    L, M, and H uses shims of the same diameter

    BTW: as far as I know, the X3 tunes are not "platform". Regular tunes are more "platform"

    Each is good for something, and bad in something else. A good experts can give a good advice, but it starts to be a little complicated.
    You can tune spring progressiveness by adding a spacer to air canister, but it has nothing to do with damping tune.

  22. #122
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    Didn't know that, thanks for the explanation !!!

  23. #123
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    Good job! Made the mod on the 2013 shim stack

    edit
    Last edited by guildur; 08-11-2013 at 01:02 PM. Reason: double post

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    Anyone knows the different between a M / L compression tune on a 2013 RT3?

    Or has experience with tuning the 2013 RT3 shim stack?

    I am looking for better small bump performance / more plush ride. I have lowered the IFP pressure according to this great thread.
    So, I got a Monarch RT3 shock with MM tune 2 weeks ago, to replace the Manitou Radium RL I had until now, and which seriously lacked of a platform mode.

    I ride a MSC Koncept frame, with 80mm of rear travel, hence a 2,1 ratio.

    Of course, just like most of the guys here, I needed a ML tune, but these are impossible to find here in France at a decent price. Since I found this great thread (thanks a lot for all the infos), I thought I'd try to modify it by myself.

    I first mounted the shock on the bike when it was still a MM tune, and right from the parking lot, with a 25% sag, I knew it wasn't the right tune at all. Very stiff. I increased the sag to 30%, and had about a 50 miles with the shock. No change.

    The rebound was fine, but shock was very stiff (despite I was using all the travel) and seriously lacked of small bumps compliance, and I had almost no "traction" when going over roots of chattery rocks in platform mode. Also, I couldn't feel any real world difference between between platform and locked.

    So I bought all the tools and went for the mod, instead of buying a new tune assembly from ebay. My shock is a 2013 model with the new shim stack.
    I noticed ruirocha had removed 2 of the 4 big compression shims of the prevous models' tune assemblies to get a low tune. Since these 4 big compression shims were here again on the 2013 shims stack, I thought they'd be once again what differentiate a low tune from a mid tune.
    So I removed them...
    Also, since my frame has a small ratio even for a low tune shock (and since that's what I had on hand), I refilled the shock whith 5w Ipone fork oil (cst @40 = 18) instead of the 7wt RS recommends.


    I don't know for sure if this is the way RS lowers the tune, but it seems to work!

    I know have:
    - a sensitive shock when opened
    - a still very present platform. The big difference is that traction is now very good, and comfort very descent. That it only eliminates pedal bob (even on short burst or when standing on the pedals), and still filters the LSC medium bumps.
    - However, I'd like to be able to stiffen up the locked mode a bit, even though it doesn't seem to bob, or maybe 2-3mm when sprinting standing of the pedals.

    I attached a picture of the mod, so those who want to get a lower tune can give it a try.
    I removed the 2 shims on the right of the arrows.


    1) I'm now planning to try 3w and 7w for oil to see if it makes any change.
    2) I'll try another IFP pressure, to see if I can get the shock better again, and use a little more travel.

    3) Also, does anyone have a clue about what/which part locks the shock? How I could make the full locked mode stiffer. I had a lockout on the Radium RL that was "hardtail-stiff", and I'd like to achieve the same thing

  25. #125
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    I bought a 2012 RT3 with a MM3 tune. I want something like a LL tune (maybe even lighter since I only weight 150lbs) so my plan is to remove the first two compression shims like ruirocha did. I'll be using Redline 5wt which is marginally thinner than the SRAM 5wt.

    I also want a lighter rebound tune. Has anyone played with the rebound to make it lighter? I saw one post where someone recommended swapping the 14x.2 and replacing with with a 10x.2. Any advantage to this as opposed to replacing it with a 14x.15 or 14x.1?

    The shock is going on a Blur LT if it makes a difference. I know VPP likes fast rebound and low compression.
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  26. #126
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    Sorry, I have no experience with MM3 but tunned a MM 2013 shock.
    What I can say is the 2013 shim stack is different from the previous years' versions. You can look at my post above to get an idea about how I "guessed" which shim to remove on a MM 2013 RT3.

    About the oil weight, my personal experience is a lighter weight gives you a slightly more linear shock.
    I did change my oil for 5wt and reduced the IFP chamber volume, but because my frame design is FSR-like, and was too progressive for the shock.
    You might not want to change any of that unless you wouldn't use all your travel?

    Also, I suggest you try to modify the settings one by one. Just change the oil first, ride the shock to feel the change (might not be noticeable if the difference in the oil's CST numbers is less that 2 points), then change the compression stack, ride the shock again, etc. This way you get to feel each change you made one by one.

    I'm no expert but I wouldn't bother trying shims of different sizes, at least before having tried to simply remove some of the big compression shims.

    Maybe you can post a pic of your shim stack?

    Good luck tuning your shock, I worth the hassle a 100 times!

  27. #127
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    Couple of weeks ago I bought 2013 monarch rt3 with ML tune and high volume air can. I added more spacers in air sleeve and currently air sleeve is full of spacers, but still I'm not satisfied how the shock handles bigger bumps. If I set sag anywhere near 25%, in small bumps bike feels like hardtail, but still in bigger bumps bike bottoms out quite easily. If I set sag around 35-40%, I like how the bike handles in small bumps, but clearly this isn't appropriate because it will bottom out in almost every bump.

    It's obvious that compression stack needs smaller/looser shims in low speed compression, but in mid and high speeds some bigger/stiffer shims are needed. How critical the shim stack height is? Is it okay to add 2-3 shims to overall shim stack height, or should I pay closer attention in stack height? My plan is to tune low speed compression at first, and move gradually to the mid and high speed compressions, in my view that's the best way to get familiar with shim stack changes. This is my first time trying to shim any damper, so any advices are appreciated.

  28. #128
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    Sounds like you need a different air can. Either that or H compression tune. What's the leverage ratio on the bike?

    mk
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  29. #129
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    Quote Originally Posted by trailbildr View Post
    Sounds like you need a different air can. Either that or H compression tune. What's the leverage ratio on the bike?

    mk
    Correct me if I'm wrong, but high volume air can with air sleeve full of spacers has the same air volume than normal air can. Yesterday I went for a ride and spent some time trying out different air pressures and found out that using the lockout in pedal position, helps quite a bit with bottom out issues in low speed comprenssion situations, so my next step is to try out stiffer compression tune. Bikes leverage ratio is 2,8.

  30. #130
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    Yup. High volume with volume reduction equals standard can.

    Yeah, I run my Monarch Plus is the middle compression setting 95% of the time. If it gets steep, I'll open it up so I can squat the rear end a bit for more traction.

    mk
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  31. #131
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    HELP! I began to rebuild my 2011 RT3 and I accidently dropped the main piston assembly. Splat! I think I have all the pieces. I have searched on line for hours and I can't find a complete exploded view of al the shims and pieced. I don't know what "tune" I had but I just want to get it back together. All the pics on the thread are nice but I don't see the complete assembly. Even the Rock Shox manuals don't show.
    Anybody?

  32. #132
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    Quote Originally Posted by ultimate99 View Post
    HELP! I began to rebuild my 2011 RT3 and I accidently dropped the main piston assembly. Splat! I think I have all the pieces. I have searched on line for hours and I can't find a complete exploded view of al the shims and pieced. I don't know what "tune" I had but I just want to get it back together. All the pics on the thread are nice but I don't see the complete assembly. Even the Rock Shox manuals don't show.
    Anybody?
    Well, for obvious reasons, you first need to figure out what's your tune. If your shock has never been customized, you can figure it out by looking for a sticker with two letters, one blue, one red, on the outside of the air can.
    Looks like this:

    This will give you the shock's original tune. Otherwise, you might guess it from your frame's suspension ratio.

    So what's your tune?

  33. #133
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    I found it guilder; "HM", I assume this means medium?
    Here's a pic of all the pieces (I hope) in no particular order. I printed the parts sheet but it is different. Any help on this would be greatly appreciated. BTW this is on a carbon Santa Cruze Tall Boy 29er with 2nd gen VPP and I am 210 lb and ride a lot of rocks.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-img_3062.jpg  


  34. #134
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    Hi, the red is rebound setting and the blue is compression. What I don't know is what's the difference between compression with or without the number 3. Let say what's the difference between a M/L shock and a M/L3 shock ? If someone could explain it to me it will make me "the guy who knows things" at my mountain biker club !
    Laurent

  35. #135
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    Hi,
    For H compression tune the shimstack is (here is only the thickness of shims, as they are all 22mm diameter in H/M/L tune)
    0.10
    0.10
    0.10
    0.20
    0.20
    ---Piston--- and Medium rebound tune continues
    0.10
    0.20
    0.15
    0.15
    0.15
    0.10

    then 4pc of small spacers (0.2 x 8mm)

    On floodgate piston are these shims (EDIT: shim diameters added)
    0.10 x 20mm
    0.10 x 13mm
    0.20 x 10mm (spacer)
    0.25 x 10mm (spacer)


    Difference between L/M/H and L3/M3/H3 is that the X3 tune has pyramidal shimstack (less low speed compression) = diameter of shims is decreasing. Regular tunes have all shims of same diameter, has more low speed compression.

  36. #136
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    Thanks a lot for these precious elements !!!
    Laurent

  37. #137
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    RoboS thanks for this great info.
    Being a newbee, I am still pretty confused.
    I count 19 washer type shims here and that's what I have also, great.
    I assume the first shims in your list get placed onto the rod first in that order
    0.10
    0.10
    0.10
    0.20
    0.20 ......
    The missing info for me now is where the other three components go.
    The blue main piston, the large tri ported thing and the small tri ported thing.
    What order within the shims and which way goes onto the rod first?
    sorry for being a bit thick about this.

  38. #138
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    Maybe I'm wrong, but as long as the shim diameter is the same in shimstack, it doesn't matter in what order they are stacked. They act as one shim (much thicker one)

    Best pictures that I found are these
    Rock Shox Monarch RT3/RC3 Plus Hauptkolben mit Shimstack Tune A Main Piston low | eBay

    Here are pictures of my piston, note that I have H3 tune, so pyramidal shimstack is visible there
    Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-20130723_183902.jpgRockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-20130723_183914.jpg

    And on this german forum is very detailed info
    RockShox Monarch RT3 im Detail - MTB-News.de - IBC

    Good luck

  39. #139
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    pretty nice pic there RoboS
    I'm sure you are correct about the shims being reversible. I can't tell the actual parts order and direction form this though.

    So I called SRam today and they guy said "I don't have any documentation on the shim stack / main piston. It's like an iPhone , very complex."
    He offered to get me a new assembly if I have a dealer call and ask for me. ...geeezzz...
    My question was about the 3) special pieces.
    "The blue main piston, the large tri ported thing and the small tri ported thing.
    What order within the shims and which way they go onto the rod first?"
    Seems very simple to me if you have the exploded diagram or photo. But it this appears to be non existent.

  40. #140
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    Hey Ultimate99, the new damper piston (2013 and later) is complex, but older ones are very very simple. Just put the sims on the shaft in this order
    0.25 x 10mm
    0.20 x 10mm
    0.10 x 13mm
    0.10 x 20mm
    --- Floodgate piston ---
    0.10 x 22mm
    0.10 x 22mm
    0.10 x 22mm
    0.20 x 22mm
    0.20 x 22mm
    --- Main pistoin ---
    0.10 x 15mm
    0.20 x 14mm
    0.15 x 8mm
    0.15 x 8mm
    0.15 x 8mm
    0.10 x 15mm
    0.20 x 8mm
    0.20 x 8mm
    0.20 x 8mm
    0.20 x 8mm
    --- Piston holding nut ---


    I found out thet I was not very accurate in my previous post. The rebound side of piston has tapered shimstack (pyramidal), so here it is corrected.

    If its not gonna work, then buy new piston assembly, there is everything you need in correct order. It just costs about 40-50€

  41. #141
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    Perfect I get the shims and their order. Looks simple.
    Now I have to figure out the direction and placment of the other 3 parts.
    like what is a flood gate and how does IT go together?
    and how does the main piston go on?

    0.25 x 10mm
    0.20 x 10mm
    0.10 x 13mm
    0.10 x 20mm
    --- Floodgate piston ---
    0.10 x 22mm
    0.10 x 22mm
    0.10 x 22mm
    0.20 x 22mm
    0.20 x 22mm
    --- Main pistoin ---
    0.10 x 15mm
    0.20 x 14mm
    0.15 x 8mm
    0.15 x 8mm
    0.15 x 8mm
    0.10 x 15mm
    0.20 x 8mm
    0.20 x 8mm
    0.20 x 8mm
    0.20 x 8mm
    --- Piston holding nut ---
    Attached Images Attached Images  

  42. #142
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    You can see orientation of main piston on one of my pistures. But I really don't know how the "tri plates" are stacked.

  43. #143
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    Does anyone here know if a 2013 RT3 tune assembly will fit a 2012 RT3?. Thanks to everyone that has posted on this thread. I have a ML now but need less low speed compression. That ML3 piston looks like the one for me.

  44. #144
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    Yeah, I heard that 2013 tunes are much better (and more complex), than the older ones. I'd like to use them too in my 2012 monarch.

  45. #145
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    Guess I'll call SRAM and see what they say. Just need less low speed compression. Might just buy the 2013 piston and see how the shims compare. Rather not get into changing shims but.........

  46. #146
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    Yes please let us know. If the newer (2013) pistons are superior then I wouldn't mind spending more money to finally finish my rebuild and have an improved shock.

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt.nebo.mtb View Post
    Does anyone here know if a 2013 RT3 tune assembly will fit a 2012 RT3?. Thanks to everyone that has posted on this thread. I have a ML now but need less low speed compression. That ML3 piston looks like the one for me. Guess I'll call SRAM and see what they say. Just need less low speed compression. Might just buy the 2013 piston and see how the shims compare. Rather not get into changing shims but.........
    Any news mt.nebo ?????? I have a 2011 RT3 and want to install a 2013 piston set.

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by RoboS View Post
    You can see orientation of main piston on one of my pistures. But I really don't know how the "tri plates" are stacked.
    The larger check plate (tri plates, floodgate piston) goes on the comp side and faces away from the piston and the smaller goes on the reb side facing towards the piston. Look at the pictures in post #1. Your shock should match that along with the shim stack spec's in post #5 for your tune. Insert the reb check plate between the 15x0.1 and the 8x0.2 shims, with the 15 cover the face of the plate. The comp check plate goes where you have labeled "floodgate piston", with the 20 shim cover the face of the plate. As the name suggests, these check plates simply minimize cross-flow through the free bleed.

    Quote Originally Posted by RoboS View Post
    Yeah, I heard that 2013 tunes are much better (and more complex), than the older ones. I'd like to use them too in my 2012 monarch.
    From the pictures I've seen, I don't think the '13 piston will work in a '12 schock. It looks like the id of the piston is larger. I don't know if the '13 piston is dished, but they do use ring shims to preload both the comp and reb stacks. I've never tried to source ring shims, but I'm guessing they aren't easy to get nor cheap. The concept of preloading the reb stack is intriguing. I believe this is what RS refers to as "rapid recovery". Gives a more digressive reb damping curve.

  49. #149
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    I ordered a '13 piston. We'll see what happens next week when it arrives.

  50. #150
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    I don't think the '13 piston is "better" than the <2013 version. I assume that the older pistons had a dished surface, causing the shims to be preloaded a fixed amount.
    But I imagine some manufacturers would like a different preload value, so they probably replaced the dished-piston approach to implementation of a "ring-shim" which is a very good way of varying the amount of preload.
    I used a similar method when I installed a shim stack in my marzocchi 55 TST2. Place the ring closer to the piston to increase preload... or further to decrease.

  51. #151
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    Thanks for al your help, am I getting close?
    Does this look right? I'm still not sure of the directions.
    as pictured here would the nut go on the far left?
    Is the piston in the correct place?
    I show the deeper side of the piston facing the left (nut?) end, right?
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-img_3082.jpg  

    Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-img_3078.jpg  

    Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-img_3077.jpg  


  52. #152
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    I'm afraid that the compression side (right from piston) should be turned around (as one block). With large shims facing the piston.

  53. #153
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    Right you are ktm520. The i.d. of the 2013 piston is much larger than the 2012 piston.

  54. #154
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    After discovering that the '13 piston wouldn't fit, I used shims from another '12 piston to come up with this setup for less compression than a ML piston. I replaced one of the 22X.15 shims with a 22X.10. I replaced the 13X.10 with 2 10X.25. It seems much better on my SC BLT 650. BTW I only weigh 150 with water and gear and ride rocky and rooty North Georgia trails. Thanks for all the help from everyone on here.

  55. #155
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt.nebo.mtb View Post
    I replaced the 13X.10 with 2 10X.25.
    Be careful changing the shims on the checkplate. They don't really monitor flow, open or closed, purely there as a check valve. The change you made may cause the 20mm shim to fatigue prematurely and probably did very little to reduce lsc, assuming that was your goal. If you go back a few pages you will find where I posted my results from my attempt to lighten the checkplate stack.

  56. #156
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    Yep, I think I see what you are saying. Shim fatigue is gonna be an issue. The changes I felt probably came from changing the 22X.15 to a .10 and not so much from the LSC stack changes. Maybe a little progression on the 22mm stack would help. I'm already using RockShox 2.5 wt fluid and 200psi.in the IFP chamber.

  57. #157
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    I have been following this thread and working on my two RT shocks. I needed a slower rebound than the stocker gives. I bought shims and have tweaked the shock most perfect. The problem I'm having is the miserable andodizing on the air can. Scraches after one ride. The scraches grab the seal and give you a stuck down shock. I hope RS will fix this problem.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by mt.nebo.mtb View Post
    Right you are ktm520. The i.d. of the 2013 piston is much larger than the 2012 piston.
    Bummer. Which piston tune did you buy? If you still have the piston assy you bought, can you document the stack spec's? I'm most interested in the hoop (ring) and nesting shim dimensions used for preloading the comp and reb stacks. The hoop shim is the large inner diameter shim that has a "nesting" shim od that matches the id of the hoop to center it. The hoop shim is thicker than the nesting shim and this preloads the shims on top of it. The 11-12 pistons had a dished face to preload the stack.

  59. #159
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    The 2013 shock had 2 ring shims; one on the main piston and one on the floodgate (3 lobes).The ring shims were located in the #2 position: normal shim, ring shim, normal shim(s).

  60. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by OldMTBfreak View Post
    The 2013 shock had 2 ring shims ....
    Hi,

    actually 3 ring shims.

    2013 ML setup :

    - shaft -
    - valve plate -
    9 x 22 x 0,15
    9 x 19 x 0,15
    9 x 11 x 0,20
    9 x 11 x 0,30
    9 x 11 x 0,30
    9 x 11 x 0,30
    9 x 22 x 0,15
    9 x 22 x 0,15
    9 x 22 x 0,15
    9 x 22 x 0,15
    19,4 x 22 x 0,40
    9 x 19 x 0,10
    9 x 22 x 0,15
    - piston -
    9 x 19 x 0,15
    16,4 x 19 x 0,30
    9 x 16 x 0,10
    9 x 19 x 0,15
    9 x 19 x 0,15
    9 x 11 x 0,30
    9 x 11 x 0,30
    9 x 11 x 0,30
    9 x 11 x 0,20
    - valve plate -
    9 x 19 x 0,10
    16,4 x 19 x 0,15
    9 x 16 x 0,10
    9 x 19 x 0,10
    9 x 11 x 0,30
    9 x 11 x 0,30
    11,5 x 1,30
    - jam nut -

    - projekt

  61. #161
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    Thanks projekt. Anyone have the spec's on a M or H comp tune?

  62. #162
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    Guys

    Maybe the question was already asked but couldn't find similar. Is there any way to convert the Monarch RT3 to monarch XX?

    The target is to mount the XLock Full sprint to my Sid XX 120 29" . Curently i have RT3 165x38 and was wondering if there is a way to first convert it to XX and later buy XL full sprint?

  63. #163
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    MM Tune 2013 RT3 with two Compression shims removed

    Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-rt3_2013_mm_tune-1-.jpgRockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-rt3_2013_mm_tune-2-.jpgRockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-rt3_2013_mm_tune-3-.jpgRockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-rt3_2013_mm_tune-4-.jpg

  64. #164
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    BOA, can you measure all the shims and provide a list like projekt did? From your pic, it appears to have the same comp stack as the low tune projekt posted based on the number of shims. Really need to know the thickness.

  65. #165
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    I have already assembled everything and it seems to work fine. So it looks like the size list is going to have to wait but as it turned out to be so easy to service it could be soon...

    I was looking for a better small bump performance and to get a better linear use of the whole travel. So I removed two shims as pointed out here on this great forum.

    I tried earlier to lower the IFP pressure below 100 psi but without any noticeable difference.

    The problem was I had to ride with as much as a 45% sag to get an acceptable level of ride smoothness and despite that I hardly bottomed out the damper doing 2 feet drops (60cm) and overall rough riding.

  66. #166
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    No worries man. In the past, RS has used varied shim thickness in the comp stack so you really need to measure them to know what you have/removed. How much do you weigh and what frame is this on? The best way to reduce harshness is by lowering stack preload, but at the sacrifice of more pedal bob if the frame has poor anti-squat. IFP has very little effect on the spring rate of these shocks and 100psi is dangerously low.

  67. #167
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    No worries man. In the past, RS has used varied shim thickness in the comp stack so you really need to measure them to know what you have/removed. How much do you weigh and what frame is this on? The best way to reduce harshness is by lowering stack preload, but at the sacrifice of more pedal bob if the frame has poor anti-squat. IFP has very little effect on the spring rate of these shocks and 100psi is dangerously low.
    Yup, you can lower stack preload by moving the "ring shim" further away from the main piston within the stack, so that fewer shims are pre-bent.

  68. #168
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    Ok. Lowering preload by moving the ring shim. Interesting have to study that one.
    Would you rather go that way than removing shims like I did or would you do both?

    I am 80 kg / 176 lbs geard up and I am using a Giant Anthem 2013 with the RT3

    The Rockshox Reba 2012 dual air up front is doing such a fantastic job in every situation I must try to make the rear better.

    The problem is harsh ride and not using all the travel unless with about 50% sag and even then the shock will hardly bottom out.

    Thanks for the comments
    BOA

  69. #169
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    I am 80 kg / 176 lbs geard up and I am using a Giant Anthem 2013 with the RT3

    The problem is harsh ride and not using all the travel unless with about 50% sag and even then the shock will hardly bottom out.
    I'm kinda of surprised the tune is that far off for your weight/frame. That frame should still pedal well without a ton of platform damping (stack preload). The best thing you can do is try a hand full of different stack configurations and then decide which you like best.

    I'd start by removing the hoop shim, putting back all of the shims, and move the nest shim (inside of hoop shim) to the top of the stack. Before you do this, document the size/thickness and order of all the shims before making any changes. This will give you the best small bump, reduce spiking, but may increase bob. When you remove stack preload, it will also narrow the range of lsc adjustment you have with the adjuster. If you still want a super firm setting like stock, you will have to run some level of stack preload. Set sag at 25% and make note of travel usage on jump/drops and sharp g-outs, and most importantly how it balances with the fork. I wouldn't be too concerned with the overall travel usage if you are happy with the overall action and balance/bias of the shock. Travel usage is more dependent of the type of trails you ride and how aggressively you ride. Bottoming could be a spring issue, but it can also be a damping problem if it is way over damped.

    This will give you an idea of the two extremes (bracketing) and then you can adjust from there. Still too harsh, start removing shims. Too soft but still pedals well, add stiffness (not preload) to the stack by adding more shims. Too soft and poor pedaling, starting putting preload back in.

    The rebound tune should be fairly close, but you won't be able to get a good handle on that until the comp side is close.

  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    Ok. Lowering preload by moving the ring shim. Interesting have to study that one.
    Would you rather go that way than removing shims like I did or would you do both?

    I am 80 kg / 176 lbs geard up and I am using a Giant Anthem 2013 with the RT3

    The Rockshox Reba 2012 dual air up front is doing such a fantastic job in every situation I must try to make the rear better.

    The problem is harsh ride and not using all the travel unless with about 50% sag and even then the shock will hardly bottom out.

    Thanks for the comments
    BOA
    What volume aircan are you using? It sounds like the spring curve is the bulk of your problem. The shim stack is likely part of the issue as well, but a proper spring curve needs to be set before all else.

  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    Ok. Lowering preload by moving the ring shim. Interesting have to study that one.
    Would you rather go that way than removing shims like I did or would you do both?

    I am 80 kg / 176 lbs geard up and I am using a Giant Anthem 2013 with the RT3

    The Rockshox Reba 2012 dual air up front is doing such a fantastic job in every situation I must try to make the rear better.

    The problem is harsh ride and not using all the travel unless with about 50% sag and even then the shock will hardly bottom out.

    Thanks for the comments
    BOA
    It's a tough call, i havent experimenten enough to be sure, but I always figured that a preloaded stack with bleed port is a preferred configuration for pedally and trail riding, while a straight stack would feel nicer for Freeride and Downhill.

  72. #172
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    For the air can it is standard volume. What are the characteristics of a high volume one?

    When you point that out ktm520. Removing preload will give better small bump performance. The oil will have lower initial threshold for flowing. That makes sense.

    Ok. Stack preload will affect the LSC (low speed control) overall effect. I don't understand how that works...

    "I always figured that a preloaded stack with bleed port is a preferred configuration for pedally and trail riding"

    two-one could you explain in more detail how bleed port works?

    Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-pistonrod.jpg

    There are two bleed ports on the rod. Is this to bypass the main piston?

    The smaller one seems to match with the compression plate and shims. Is this one used for full open damping? Everything is open?

    And the other one used for Platform or Pedal damping. The smaller one closed?

    Could this be the reason for less lockout and pedal damping after two shims from the main piston are removed. Because I should have modified the Plate stack at the end of the compression stack for less compress damping in all open position?

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    For the air can it is standard volume. What are the characteristics of a high volume one?
    A high volume air can will have a more linear spring rate. They are usually used when a bike has a progressive linkage ratio, or a rider is having trouble using full travel when the shock is set at correct sag. Sounds like it may be the best place to start.

  74. #174
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    When you point that out ktm520. Removing preload will give better small bump performance. The oil will have lower initial threshold for flowing. That makes sense.

    Ok. Stack preload will affect the LSC (low speed control) overall effect. I don't understand how that works...
    Short version, the free bleed can only control low speed oil flow up to the point that the stack opens. It's a little more complicated than that though.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    "I always figured that a preloaded stack with bleed port is a preferred configuration for pedally and trail riding"

    two-one could you explain in more detail how bleed port works?

    There are two bleed ports on the rod. Is this to bypass the main piston?

    The smaller one seems to match with the compression plate and shims. Is this one used for full open damping? Everything is open?

    And the other one used for Platform or Pedal damping. The smaller one closed?

    Could this be the reason for less lockout and pedal damping after two shims from the main piston are removed. Because I should have modified the Plate stack at the end of the compression stack for less compress damping in all open position?
    The free bleed is in the center of the shaft. There is a spring loaded check valve that closes a port at the end of the shaft. During comp, oil enters that port, flows past the check valve once enough pressure builds to open it, and then it flows out the comp side check plate. When you turn the lsc lever, it increases preload on the check valve spring. The check plates are merely open or closed, no damping. This has already been covered at the beginning of this thread.

  75. #175
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    ktm520 is (as usual) right on the money.

    So my theory is based on the (guessed) force/velocity graph: Name:  graph.png
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    if a simple shock without compression adjusters contained a simple shim stack covering some ports, the resulting damping graph would be pretty linear.
    But when you want to add some kind of pedaling platform, then you will have to preload the stack, so that the shock won't bob while riding. Fox called this "propedal", which helped a lot with old frames that didn't have any anti-squat built in their linkage, but this lost a lot of small-bump compliance and caused washboard-spiking.

    So the adjustable propedal was introduced which is the mechanism KTM520 explained. This adjustable bleed path (around the shim stack) alters the way you perceive low-mid speed actions, like pedaling, body movement, brake dive, but also landing drops. At a certain speed (the "knee" of the damping curve), the shimstacks preload is finally completely countered with oil pressure, and it will start to behave as a similar stack without the preload (bending the same number of shims). But at that point a bit more force had to be added to obtain the same oilflow-speed.

    What I was inferring is the concept that the preloaded shim stack, with an "open" bleed port (propedal in setting 1, or "descent mode") creates a plush initial stroke feeling like a straight stack, but has more damping (support) for mid speed events, like trail-riding where a corner could need a lot of body English. Something that's pretty useful with current day air-springs that tend to blow through the midstroke all too easily.

    So when people have the tendency to call a shock "harsh", I think it could be because of a high preload setting, with a high/sharp "knee" in the curve.
    So the question is... less preload (move ring shim), or less shims (which can also reduce preload, depending where in the stack you remove the shims from)

  76. #176
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    Name:  pistonTune.jpg
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    So when you buy a piston tune you will get a shorter / softer spring for the free bleed and a new check valve as shown in the picture?

    If yes is there a change to modify this yourself to improve the homemade tune further?

    Could this explain why the LSC lever has lost almost all of its effect after the Compression stack has been made much weaker?

    The oil is leaking through the stack before or at the same time when the free bleed overcomes the spring loaded pressure valve.

  77. #177
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    So when you buy a piston tune you will get a shorter / softer spring for the free bleed and a new check valve as shown in the picture?
    I don't know...
    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    If yes is there a change to modify this yourself to improve the homemade tune further?
    Maybe.. if you know WHAT you want to change/improve
    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post

    Could this explain why the LSC lever has lost almost all of its effect after the Compression stack has been made much weaker?
    yup, a stack that easily blows off will let the oil flow at the same time as the freebleed/Lowspeed circuit, therefore the adjustments will have less effect in the initial stroke
    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post

    The oil is leaking through the stack before or at the same time when the free bleed overcomes the spring loaded pressure valve.
    The preloaded face shim will stop any oil from flowing past the shimstack untill enough pressure has been built up to lift the face shim...

  78. #178
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    So when you buy a piston tune you will get a shorter / softer spring for the free bleed and a new check valve as shown in the picture?

    If yes is there a change to modify this yourself to improve the homemade tune further?
    I haven't fully decrypted the new piston tunes, specifically the middle letter and 3 digit number, but I'm guessing is has something to do with the check valve spring rate. The check valve and spring is captured inside the end of the shaft. You have to remove the shaft from the eyelet to get it out. Requires a good set of shaft clamps and a little heat.

  79. #179
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    2013 RS RT3 MM Tune
    Shock Rod - Compression Stack First
    Valve Plate Facing Piston
    9x22x0.2mm
    9x19x0.2
    9x11x0.25 spacers
    9x11x0.25
    9x11x0.25
    9x11x0.25
    9x22x0.15
    9x22x0.15
    9x22x0.15
    9x22x0.15
    9x19x0.15
    19.3x22x0.4 Ring Shim
    9x22x0.15
    Main Piston flat surface facing towards compression stack
    Rebound stack goes into the cup side of the main piston
    9x19x0.15
    9x16x0.15
    16.3x19x0.3 Ring Shim
    9x19x0.15
    9x19x0.15
    9x11x0.3 spacers
    9x11x0.3
    9x11x0.3
    9x11x0.3
    Valve Plate Facing away from piston
    9x19x0.15
    9x16.4x0.1
    16.4x19x0.15 Ring Shim
    9x19x0.15
    9x11x0.3 Spacers
    9x11x0.3
    End Nut

    I did not have access to a Micrometer so I used fairly accurate Calipers. BOA

  80. #180
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    First I removed 2 shims from the pressure stack trying to improve the smoothness of the shock. I went to far.

    My main compression stack got so weak that Platform damping (LSC Low Speed Control) Pedal and also called Lockout was lost. The shock was much softer in compression but I did not bother to really ride the bike like that because it was way off.

    After studying KTM520 suggestions I did move the ring shim that preloads the compression stack 2 shims away from the main piston. To keep the platform characteristics of the shock and to take smaller steps in general.

    Then on the rebound side I have only been using 3 clicks from fully open rebound and decided to move the ring shim one shim away from the main piston.

    I have not taken the bike out yet but the platform is there and the shock moves through its travel with less effort than before and the rebound is close to mid range now. So this seems to be not that far off... but we will see how its on the trail...

    I would like to try a High Volume air can as well

    This has been a steep learning curve thanks to KTM520, two-one and many more that has contributed to this threat so that we can do things like that to our bikes and get more out of this great sport. Thank you guys.

    BOA

  81. #181
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    Hi BOA,

    thanks for posting the MM stack

    - projekt

  82. #182
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    Welcome

    The final step towards smoothness would probably by replacing the first two shims towards -projekt 's stack ML Tune. I wish I had them...

    Those are the key difference between L and M tune. The low speed stack.

    BOA

  83. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    After studying KTM520 suggestions I did move the ring shim that preloads the compression stack 2 shims away from the main piston. To keep the platform characteristics of the shock and to take smaller steps in general.
    Good work man. Nothing wrong with small steps, but I've found when you are first starting out bigger steps make it easier to feel the changes and get a feel for the extremes. Sounds like you already got a feel for too soft.

    Am I missing something, or does projekt's L and BOA's M comp stack look exactly the same? Did you all get your reb and comp letters switched around? The first letter is reb and the second is comp. The reb hoop/nest shim is different between the two.

    Maybe the piston ports are different. If you all get a chance, measure the size of the comp piston ports.

  84. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    Am I missing something, or does projekt's L and BOA's M comp stack look exactly the same? Did you all get your reb and comp letters switched around? The first letter is reb and the second is comp. The reb hoop/nest shim is different between the two.
    It looks like the Lowspeed check valve is twice as stiff for BOA's MM tune. (0.2 vs 0.15 shims). That would probably change the compression curve quite a bit, especially in the initial stroke when the main compression stack hasn't blown off yet.

    I guess I wouldn't call the LS stack a check-valve anymore, as it can be pretty stiff, and it doesn't seem to be preloaded.

  85. #185
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    I'm leaning towards measurement error. There are differences on the rebound side as well and they should be identical. I'd still be surprised if they are using the check plate for anything more than a check valve. Still curious to know if there are differences between the piston port area.

  86. #186
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    Hi guys,
    I see you've done some serious tuning with the Monarch, so may be you could help a bit with my problem. Here are some tech details on the frame:
    1. Frame leverage ratio 2.3
    2. Lev. ratio escalation 2.75 - 1.95
    3. Shock is 2013 RS Monarch RT3 216x63 High volume L/L3 tune

    So, as seen by the specs the frame is progressive with a low (ish) leverage ratio. The shock is chosen accordingly and you'd expect to achieve adequate travel with this setup. That's not the case though, I've set it up at around 30% sag and still can't get past ~ 45-50mm. stroke. I don't do drops, but the occasional high speed square bump hit/drop should get me at least near bottom-out, I'm nearly 90kg. with gear. I've had a few occasions when you'd expect to bottom-out and the fork (RS Revelation) pretty much did, which can't be said for the rear end.
    I've serviced the shock according to SRAM's service manual and the IFP depth and pressure were and after the service are spot on - depth 70.9mm/350PSI
    In short, I feel the end stroke ramps up too much and feels harsh. I even tried to reduce the IFP pressure to 250, but can't say there's noticeable difference...as some of you've already stated earlier in this thread, this is expected with shocks like the Monarch. To add to the confusion, the rebound seems quite fast. When fully closed I get an average return speed, when fully open its lightning fast.
    I don't really want to play with the shim stack, but if that's the only option I might try. Any ideas where to look?

  87. #187
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    imbecile, what frame do you have? How much pressure are you running in the fork and shock? Bottoming is mostly controlled by spring. Sounds like you need more air volume, but you already have a hv can, so not much you can do there. Not surprised the reb tune is too soft/fast for your weight. You really need a tune closer to mid/high.

    I don't know if anyone has tried this on a mtb shock, but you could add volume to the spring by plumbing up a remote resevoir, maybe even a short length of hose/tubing. Just guessing you may only need somewhere in the range of 8-15cc of extra volume. Hell, you could even leave the pump attached and use the plunger to vary the volume.

    About the only other thing you can do is try softening the comp stack stiffness, which is really easy to do if you already know how to tear down the shock. I'd start by reducing preload. Reducing lsc will use more stroke but you may get into the situation were you loose chassis stability.

  88. #188
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    @ktm520
    I'm running 95 PSI in the fork and 160 PSI in the shock, which gives around 25-30% sag. The frame is pretty "exotic":
    Vendor site: Horské kolo 27,5" IQ 575 TEAM | RB Bike
    Some Linkage analysis: RB Bikes IQ 575 2013 - Linkage Design
    The leverage ratio gets quite low in the end of the stroke, so I might not get adequate results if I mess with the comp stack as long as it is an air sprung damper...I might think a bit over the idea to extend the volume with a short hose or something similar, just for the sake of testing.
    As the shock attachment to the rear triangle is for air shocks only (and w/o reservoir at the shaft end ones, Vivid/DB Air are no-go) I'm limited to RS/Fox/X-fusion air shocks, otherwise I'd consider a more linear air spring damper like the Vivid or DB.

  89. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by imbecile View Post
    The leverage ratio gets quite low in the end of the stroke, so I might not get adequate results if I mess with the comp stack as long as it is an air sprung damper
    Partially true, but you never know until you try. It's so easy to do, I'd start there short of adding a reservoir to the spring.

    Besides the bottoming issue, how does it ride on small bump, midstroke, and square edge? You are still using 80% of travel, so I wouldn't be too worried about it if the overall ride is satisfactory. Options are pretty limited. Maybe you just need to go bigger.

  90. #190
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    This would get you pointed in the right direction, and then you should be able to find all kinds of extension option at a truck supply shop.
    Topeak® Cycling Accessories ? Products - Pressure-Rite

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    Partially true, but you never know until you try. It's so easy to do, I'd start there short of adding a reservoir to the spring.

    Besides the bottoming issue, how does it ride on small bump, midstroke, and square edge? You are still using 80% of travel, so I wouldn't be too worried about it if the overall ride is satisfactory. Options are pretty limited. Maybe you just need to go bigger.
    Well, i't's a trail bike, so any bigger would be out of its league I'd say the overall ride is fine, I guess I'm more worried about the fact that I hardly get even near those 80%, like that's the actual bottom-out point.
    Thanks for the hint with the 90° extension, I'll try this setup just to see how the damper performs when spring is more linear.

  92. #192
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    Quit looking at that travel oring, problem solved

  93. #193
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    Is there any difference between the 2013 and 2014 monarch RT3?

    I looking to buy a monarch, but only see the 2014 shocks, but I'm looking at getting a LLS tune. Will a 2013 tune kit fit into a 2014 body is the real question.
    RideSAMBA.com Mountain Biking in South Alabama.

  94. #194
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    So I have a MM tune with soft threshold my Scott Genius 900. The low speed and threshold are REALLY good on this bike, but I'd like to back off high-speed compression damping a bit for the fast, square edge stuff. 160 lb aggressive rider. 2.6:1, slightly regressive suspension ratio.

    Given the shim stack below, can anyone recommended changes to the shim stack to achieve a bit lighter high speed compression damping while leaving the threshold and low speed unchanged? A very slight decrease in low speed compression damping would be acceptable.

    Quote Originally Posted by BOA View Post
    2013 RS RT3 MM Tune
    Shock Rod - Compression Stack First
    Valve Plate Facing Piston
    9x22x0.2mm
    9x19x0.2
    9x11x0.25 spacers
    9x11x0.25
    9x11x0.25
    9x11x0.25
    9x22x0.15
    9x22x0.15
    9x22x0.15
    9x22x0.15
    9x19x0.15
    19.3x22x0.4 Ring Shim
    9x22x0.15
    Main Piston flat surface facing towards compression stack
    Rebound stack goes into the cup side of the main piston
    9x19x0.15
    9x16x0.15
    16.3x19x0.3 Ring Shim
    9x19x0.15
    9x19x0.15
    9x11x0.3 spacers
    9x11x0.3
    9x11x0.3
    9x11x0.3
    Valve Plate Facing away from piston
    9x19x0.15
    9x16.4x0.1
    16.4x19x0.15 Ring Shim
    9x19x0.15
    9x11x0.3 Spacers
    9x11x0.3
    End Nut

    I did not have access to a Micrometer so I used fairly accurate Calipers. BOA

  95. #195
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    First. Any stack changes to reduce hsc will also reduce lsc. I'd start with reducing stiffness by pulling a shim or 2. At your weight, you can easily run closer to a low tune.

  96. #196
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    First. Any stack changes to reduce hsc will also reduce lsc. I'd start with reducing stiffness by pulling a shim or 2. At your weight, you can easily run closer to a low tune.
    Any recommendation on which shim to start with, consider me a newb when it comes to shim stacks. Will pulling a shim also reduce the platform effectiveness, or just LSC?

    I'm also tempted to just purchase and try the Rockshox ML Firm Thresh. stock tune kit as well.

    Thanks.

  97. #197
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    Any of the 22x.15 shims above the ring/nest shim. Platform damping is just ultra low speed compression. I don't know what the differences are in the piston assy's between a firm and soft threshold. I'm guessing it's the spring that controls the check valve in the center of the piston arbor, and if that is true, a firmer spring will just change the range of adjustment with the lever and make square edge slightly worst. I would work with what you have before dropping 50$ on another piston assy. You should be able to get where you want to be. Plus it good to get a feel for how specific stack changes effect the ride. I wouldn't be surprised if you find that you really don't need as much "platform" as what you think.

  98. #198
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    Thanks ktm520.

    So I ended up happy with the stock tune again. And the problem was not what I expected.

    I noticed that the rebound on my Pike had been turned all the way slow, whether my mechanic (3 yr old son) turned it, or I just kept dialing it up over time I do not know. The slow rebound made the front sink over the rough terrain, as a result, the rear got a a bit light and bouncy.

    One other change that also made the suspension feel more responsive was installing a rim/tire package that was 2 lb lighter than I had been riding.

    Thanks for the feedback though, I may still tear into to mess around and learn the affect changing the shims has on performance.

  99. #199
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    I've a monarch RT3 2013, ML tune.

    1. Shim stacks were posted up for both ML and MM tunes, they however appeared to be the same, what is the difference between the stacks.

    2. I'd like to give some tuning a go this is prompted by the fact i've already rebult it due to ifp pressure loss and the ifp crashing into the schrader valve pin and bending it. Then i can't quite get it feeling quite right.

    HV air can, packed out the HV section to reduce volume, mega tr frame, 130mm, regressive then progressive leverage curve.

    The issue that im running into is that im having to run less than 20% sag and im still having bottom out issues, it's using the travel too easily, not quite "blowing through" but certainly doesn't have the support im after. Or is this simply the limitation of a 130mm frame, coming from a 150mm frame (with a vivid air) and doing silly gaps and drops people do on DH bikes?

    Thinking of adding a shim at the beginning of the HS stack, not sure what size to start with.

    Just to make sure i've got the shock sussed, low speed lever adjust preload on a spring loading a check needle, low speed, the needle monitors flow, out of a port (which bypasses HS stack), then through a separate low speed stack. When enough oil flows, low speed is overwhelmed, HS stack is forced open.

    Also, how hard is the piston to get off? Do you need to heat to soften thread lock? What did you use to clamp the shaft, or are there some flats?

  100. #200
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    How do you block the IFP before refilling the suspension fluid and mounting the piston?
    I was wandering if there's a method other tan using the Monarch specific vise blocks recommended by RS
    Rockshox Monarch RT3 Shim Stack-00.4118.013.000-1-.jpg

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