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  1. #1
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    Rock shox Lyrik damping

    I have 2 Lyrik forks, one is a 160 solo air, the other is a dual position air, 115-160. Both purchased used, they are 2012-2013 models.

    Both of these have the same dampener, and I am so unimpressed. Both of them, show very little dampening when maxxed out on both the low and high speed compression knobs. I am used to that "squish" that really helps with confidence on the lighter inflation settings for plushness. One of my favorites is the older revelation 140 air with motion control. Plenty of adjustable squish, all the way to lockout. I have nothing like that with these 2 forks.

    Am I missing something, or is this a common complaint? Do people have these rebuilt for effectiveness?

    Thank you!! in advance.
    Michael
    old guy

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    Get an avalanche cartridge

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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I have 2 Lyrik forks, one is a 160 solo air, the other is a dual position air, 115-160. Both purchased used, they are 2012-2013 models.

    Both of these have the same dampener, and I am so unimpressed. Both of them, show very little dampening when maxxed out on both the low and high speed compression knobs. I am used to that "squish" that really helps with confidence on the lighter inflation settings for plushness. One of my favorites is the older revelation 140 air with motion control. Plenty of adjustable squish, all the way to lockout. I have nothing like that with these 2 forks.

    Am I missing something, or is this a common complaint? Do people have these rebuilt for effectiveness?

    Thank you!! in advance.
    It seems to be commonplace for the end user to tinker with the Lyrik. Seems many people aren't happy with the overall damping profile. There are numerous threads on changing the shim stack to change the damping profile. Others are more basic things, like changing oil weights. You should open yours up and see whats going on inside. I got mine used(2012 Lyrik SA RC2DH), but with less than an hour of ride time. The air spring piston had no lube oil. Setting that right greatly improved the feel. I've heard of the forks coming from the FACTORY with no/incorrect oil levels, so that's definitely something to look into.

    Now, you will read many different solutions on the forums. It is up to you to decide what is best for you. Rockshox calls for a 15wt shock oil in the Solo Air side upper tube. This is only for keeping the air piston lubed, which aids in a smooth feel. Too thin and the air pressure will cause the oil to blast through the seal and into the lower. I chose to use full synthetic 75wt gear oil. Thick enough to not blow by, and does a very good job at lubrication. Rockshox also calls for 15wt shock oil in the lowers, for the bath/"splash" oil, this is also just for lubrication purposes. From what I've read, full synthetic motor oil has much more effective lubricity properties than shock oil. Manitou recommends it, several shock tuners recommend it, and I've read multiple forum members use it. I run 10wt Mobil1 in both my Fox 40 and Lyrik. For added butterness, I also slather my seals in Slick Honey. It is oil miscible, so it will dissolve nicely into the oil if it gets pulled down into the bath lubrication. This has been a major contributing factor in getting my Fox 40's to feel amazing, and I have sworn by it ever since. I can't tell how effective it was in the Lyrik, since I think the lack of air piston lube was the main fault. Regardless, I will continue to use it. After all this, albeit slight, tinkering..I am still not happy with the Lyrik's damping. It just feels over damped. My next experiment will be replacing the 5wt damper oil with something lighter. Probably a mixture of Redline 2.5 and 5 to get an oil weight of 3.75 overall. Sorry for the long winded answer, just thought I'd share my currently ongoing experiences with my Lyrik.

    Here are some of the threads that helped me out alot.

    Rockshox lyrik rides like ass!

    Tune Your Mission Control High Speed Shim Stack: How To Guide: Pics

  4. #4
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    I appreciate the replies.

    I also have a solo air Totem RC2 DH. I think it is mission control (low and high speed knobs) I have the exact same complaint, NO real damping adjustability. I should be able to nearly lock this out, shouldn't I ???
    Michael
    old guy

  5. #5
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    Re: Rock shox Lyrik damping

    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I

    . I should be able to nearly lock this out, shouldn't I ???


    No, not even close. Unless you have a floodgate.

  6. #6
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    EDR, don't all of these 2011-2013, with high and low speed knobs, have a floodgate?
    Michael
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    Re: Rock shox Lyrik damping

    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    EDR, don't all of these 2011-2013, with high and low speed knobs, have a floodgate?
    Depends on the damper. The dh versions have no floodgate.
    Here is the thing about equality, everyone's equal when they're dead. - Gavroche, Les MisÚrables

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    I will get more specific. The RC2L dual position air I have, I assume has a floodgate, is is not the "DH" version. I obviously need to get rid of the floodgate to free it up, but this appear not to address the reality that these dampers have VERY little damping capability. Will oil weight address that? I think not, given what I see. Buy the DH dampener? Plus heavier oil?

    The other fork is a Totem 180 rc2DH. It has great freedom, but still nearly no damping on max settings on both HS and LS knobs. Heavier oil? More oil?
    Michael
    old guy

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I should be able to nearly lock this out, shouldn't I ???
    No, RC2 DH very specifically has no lock out at all (and no floodgate). You can adjust the preload on low and high speed compression, as well rebound. To actually change the low/high speed completely you need to play with shims or change the oil weight.

    The models with Floodgate are named RC2L.

    Regards lack of damping, the first thing to do is check the oil in the fork, there may not be enough in both the legs and the spring/damper themselves, both of which would make it ride like ass.

    If that doesn't solve the issue (or was never the problem) talk to a suspension tuner about changing the compression shimstacks for something better suited to your weight.

    The RC2 damper's really good, I think the version without floodgate is best as the gate interferes with the beginning stroke of the fork (in general I hate lockouts). If the adjusters aren't doing anything that suggests a problem within the fork. It's also worth noting that high speed compression only really affects anything when you're hitting the fork hard, you need to riding fast to notice the changes, car park and curb tests will only use the low speed.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    EDR, don't all of these 2011-2013, with high and low speed knobs, have a floodgate?
    No. If you have an RC2L, then yes, you will have a floodgate and can get pretty close to locking it out. You say you have one Solo Air and one Dual Position. That doesn't tell us anything about the damper. SA and DP are just the spring options. There are 4 different damper configurations possible. RC2DH, RC2L, RC, and R.

  11. #11
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    Yes, thanks. I clarified below
    Michael
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I will get more specific. The RC2L dual position air I have, I assume has a floodgate, is is not the "DH" version. I obviously need to get rid of the floodgate to free it up, but this appear not to address the reality that these dampers have VERY little damping capability. Will oil weight address that? I think not, given what I see. Buy the DH dampener? Plus heavier oil?

    The other fork is a Totem 180 rc2DH. It has great freedom, but still nearly no damping on max settings on both HS and LS knobs. Heavier oil? More oil?
    RC2L has floodgate. Removing it will give better oil flow and damping characteristics. However, removing it, I don't think will achieve what you desire. It sounds like you need to read the shim stack tuning thread.

  13. #13
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    Re: Rock shox Lyrik damping

    Also the lyrik and totem dampers will not behave like a inexpensive fork. On an inexpensive fork the end-user expect to see a dramatic change when adjusting the damper from one end to the other. On most high and forks the changes and damping characteristics are extremely subtle, and most noticeable at high speed hard riding. I don't think you're going to be able to flip the damper from one nd to the other and find a dramatic difference, ever.

    My experience is dealing with the 2008 to 2010 Mission Control dampers so I can't really speak to the new stuff very well.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by eatdrinkride View Post
    Also the lyrik and totem dampers will not behave like a inexpensive fork. On an inexpensive fork the end-user expect to see a dramatic change when adjusting the damper from one end to the other. On most high and forks the changes and damping characteristics are extremely subtle, and most noticeable at high speed hard riding. I don't think you're going to be able to flip the damper from one nd to the other and find a dramatic difference, ever.

    My experience is dealing with the 2008 to 2010 Mission Control dampers so I can't really speak to the new stuff very well.
    This is the best response of the thread.

    The changes the external adjusters make are going to be hard to notice in a parking lot test, but will be more noticeable on the trail when shaft speeds are much faster than you can achieve by simply pushing down on the fork with your hands.

    Do you know how to turn the floodgate on? Sounds like you dont. If you have the normal mission control damper and not the DH version, you lock out the fork by pushing the LSC adjuster down and turning it 1/8 of a turn. When the flood gate is active, the LSC adjuster will pop up. To turn it off, you push it down and turn it back. You can adjust the stiffness of the lock out by pulling the rebound adjuster off and using the 2mm allen wrench attached to it to turn the screw in the middle of the LSC knob. Clockwise is a stiffer lock out, counter clock wise will be less stiff.

  15. #15
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    Thank you for that. I did not know how to lock it out, and now see the value in it. It is just a darn shame that the damper itself is so inneffective. I suppose there is some reworking that could be done to keep the floodgate (lockout) and still get decent damping with it off.
    I have an older revelation MoCo that will dampen with the turn of the knob, all the way to semi-lockout. That kind of quick extreme damping is very useful to me
    Michael
    old guy

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    Thank you for that. I did not know how to lock it out, and now see the value in it. It is just a darn shame that the damper itself is so inneffective. I suppose there is some reworking that could be done to keep the floodgate (lockout) and still get decent damping with it off.
    I have an older revelation MoCo that will dampen with the turn of the knob, all the way to semi-lockout. That kind of quick extreme damping is very useful to me

    The damper is not ineffective at all. The reason people think it is ineffective is because they are coming from XC dampers that are designed to work differently. Mission control is designed for going down hill, and the damper performs great in these situations. If you were to look at a dyno chart, you would see that the damper has a fairly large range of adjustment. The non DH damper has the lock out with adjustable blow off point for people who use the fork to climb.

    I think you are just expecting threshold type damper that makes the LSC range feel larger then it really is, but that is not what its designed fork. Just know that is is working as intended.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    The damper is not ineffective at all. The reason people think it is ineffective is because they are coming from XC dampers that are designed to work differently. Mission control is designed for going down hill, and the damper performs great in these situations. If you were to look at a dyno chart, you would see that the damper has a fairly large range of adjustment. The non DH damper has the lock out with adjustable blow off point for people who use the fork to climb.

    I think you are just expecting threshold type damper that makes the LSC range feel larger then it really is, but that is not what its designed fork. Just know that is is working as intended.
    EXACTLY!

    I have to laugh at those that push down on their Lyriks in the garage and decide how well they're going to work on the trail! I chalk that up to too much exposure to cheap Fox dampers (speaking from my own personal experience of having ashamedly been a Fox fanboy at one time). The Lyrik DH dampers are some of the best OEM systems going! Now the air chambers... are a different story. Let's just say they could have greatly benefited from the "tokens" system that the Pike uses. I finally gave up and converted mine to coil - best fork I've ever owned.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  18. #18
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    Love all the irrelevant agendas. The R2CL 160 is just plain scary to use on anything technical going downhill, regardless of settings. I have not experienced a harsher ride in a very long time, that's 20 years of riding. I build my own bikes, this is not a new concept. I just removed a Marz 55 that had a broken damper and no rebound, and it was preferable.

    I have no real complaints at this point with the DH fork, except there is not enough compression damping. Will probably just up the oil weight and hope to get lucky.
    Michael
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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    Love all the irrelevant agendas. The R2CL 160 is just plain scary to use on anything technical going downhill, regardless of settings. I have not experienced a harsher ride in a very long time, that's 20 years of riding. I build my own bikes, this is not a new concept. I just removed a Marz 55 that had a broken damper and no rebound, and it was preferable.

    I have no real complaints at this point with the DH fork, except there is not enough compression damping. Will probably just up the oil weight and hope to get lucky.
    I would occasionally take my RC2L to lift access dh riding and would be faster with it on tech trails then I was with my full dh bike with an 888 on it.

    Also, not sure who is posting with agendas.

  20. #20
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    Sounds to me like you need to open er' up and see what's happening. My RC2DH rides extremely well on the down. Service that bugger then get back to the thread. All those comments on the 'parking lot feel tests' apply.

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    Love all the irrelevant agendas. The R2CL 160 is just plain scary to use on anything technical going downhill, regardless of settings. I have not experienced a harsher ride in a very long time, that's 20 years of riding. I build my own bikes, this is not a new concept. I just removed a Marz 55 that had a broken damper and no rebound, and it was preferable.

    I have no real complaints at this point with the DH fork, except there is not enough compression damping. Will probably just up the oil weight and hope to get lucky.
    A harsh ride makes me think there might be too much damping happening. Is it harsh as in bottoming out all the time? My guess is no. I put in a thinner oil in mine and I liked the ride feel better.
    Rebound speed is also a factor in making it feel harsh. Too little or too much will do that.
    Removing the floodgate is a simple adjustment with good results.

    Purchased used...I wonder if previous owner(s) tried doing some mods to them and adjusted the shim stack to meet their needs.
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    ...People thought they were getting a good fork because it was a "fox".

  22. #22
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    It's not uncommon to have out-of-spec bushings in RS forks causing binding. Something is definitely "wrong" with that fork if it feels as bad as you claim.

    Have FUN!

    G MAN
    "There's two shuttles, one to the top and one to the hospital" I LOVE this place!!!

  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    I just removed a Marz 55 that had a broken damper and no rebound, and it was preferable.
    Your Lyriks must be absolutely stuffed then...

    Have you had the forks apart to ascertain that something isn't quite right with them internally?
    I don't crash, I just have slightly uncontrolled dismounts!

  24. #24
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    I have now become a bit of an expert in the damper inner workings. Some things have become more clear after taking these apart. I am going to be doing some changes to improve high speed damping. The problem with some of these is

    1. LSC is ineffective at closing off the low speed flow. Other threads also reveal this with photos, that I confirmed in my dampers

    2. Glide seal (the white nylon ones around the piston) spec. The fluid that moves through the piston is very low speed, very high pressure. If the fluid can just go around the piston, dampers mods will only be minimally effective
    Michael
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  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by masterp2 View Post
    Love all the irrelevant agendas. The R2CL 160 is just plain scary to use on anything technical going downhill, regardless of settings. I have not experienced a harsher ride in a very long time, that's 20 years of riding. I build my own bikes, this is not a new concept. I just removed a Marz 55 that had a broken damper and no rebound, and it was preferable.

    I have no real complaints at this point with the DH fork, except there is not enough compression damping. Will probably just up the oil weight and hope to get lucky.
    Sounds like minor hydrolocking to me. About halfway through an extremely rocky 7mi/3000' descent, my fork began getting progressively worse and worse. Turns out the stanchion leg seals were leaking and allowing the damping oil down into the lowers. By the end of the ride, I could only get about 40mm of travel out of it. Yours may be in much better shape, as a little bit of leakage can certainly make it feel extremely harsh, without having any obvious signs that something is wrong (like only getting 40mm travel).

    From what I've read, this is a pretty common problem for those that don't regularly do a full service, especially if you do a lot of bike park stuff, or other long duration high-speed rapid hits. The seals down there just aren't that great and wear out quicker than one would expect.

    You could also have the air pressure set too high?

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