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Thread: Push ind.

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    Push ind.

    called them yesterday about an X2. guy said they were only working on the CTD's & that they were getting out of the tuning business & going strictly manufacturing their own suspension. obviously they were already making the 11/6 & their own internals for the 36 coil conversion, but i was surprised they'd get out of what they were doing from the beginning. big opening there.
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    Avalanche tunes the X2.


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    That's a big bummer.

    Why fix what you got when you can throw it away and buy something entirely new
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    If accurate, I am surprised with the change in direction. PUSH's success was based on tuning, not manufacturing.

    Are they really selling that many 11-6s at $1200 USD a pop?

    That said, I am looking at one myself...right now...

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    Push has practically become the namebrand in 3rd party suspension tuning and I am surprised they willing to throw away that level of income. I would be excited to see another brand in the market but I hope their intent is to make more than 1 extremely high end shock.

    I would love to see a sub $700 shock and a sub $1k fork from them with their custom tuning and internals.
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    Darren has posted in several threads that it's more of an issue of parts availability. I believe that it's becoming very difficult to do aftermarket tunes because of how Fox is making parts availability for out dated shocks.

    He did mention that you'll still be able to get new off the shelf push modified products as those are current product lines with solid parts availability.

    This isn't a decision they are making to screw their customers over, it's a shift in their focus due to supply chain. And to answer your questions, yes they are selling enough premium bespoke products to make this shift.

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    I wonder if Push can do something with the X2. While they're pretty good, they're not the end all and be all.
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    ...And to answer your questions, yes they are selling enough premium bespoke products to make this shift.
    Time will tell. A lot will depend on the economy. I bet not too many $1200 aftermarket shocks were being sold in 2008. Then again, I see that the 11-6 is becoming more and more available as an OEM option (e.g.; Evil).

    I wish them nothing but the best of luck. In my view, companies like Push benefit us all (if not by offering their products and services to us, by them making sure the industry never gets too complacent). To some degree at least, they are probably good for all of us in helping to drive the industry to where we (the most extreme of bike enthusiasts) want it to go, regardless of whether we are a direct consumer.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    I wonder if Push can do something with the X2. While they're pretty good, they're not the end all and be all.
    little doubt they could, but they're not going to
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    Quote Originally Posted by minimusprime View Post
    Darren has posted in several threads that it's more of an issue of parts availability. I believe that it's becoming very difficult to do aftermarket tunes because of how Fox is making parts availability for out dated shocks.

    He did mention that you'll still be able to get new off the shelf push modified products as those are current product lines with solid parts availability.

    This isn't a decision they are making to screw their customers over, it's a shift in their focus due to supply chain. And to answer your questions, yes they are selling enough premium bespoke products to make this shift.
    This is what happened with Rockshox. Push developed products and then couldn't get the necessary oem parts. I think it was a wise decision on their part to stop offering Rockshox than do a tune, then have a shock a year later they couldn't rebuild or service for a customer.


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    Okay….probably best if I chime in here.

    First, let me clear things up and let everyone know that our technical service department is not closing down…..in fact it’s growing. Our focus is shifting however. If you have a PUSH tuned fork or shock we will continue to service it for as long as possible based on part availability from FOX.

    What has happened is that we discontinued development on new FOX suspension tuning products last year. So, we won’t be offering service or tuning on items such as X2, DPX2, Grip, etc. This is in response to how busy we’ve become building, servicing, and reconfiguring our own suspension products. We also want to ensure that we continue to offer a top-level customer experience with those products.

    We currently offer a line of DIY tools, parts, and supplies and will be growing those product lines. These will be available to consumers, bike shops, and independent suspension tuners.

    We are continuing with service and tuning of FOX 36 FIT-4/RC2 forks using our ACS3 fork kit as well as new fork sales of 36 FIT-4/RC2 models with that kit.

    That's the short version. I'd be happy to answer any questions that people may have.

    Darren

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post

    That's the short version. I'd be happy to answer any questions that people may have.

    Darren
    When can we expect a Push manufactured fork?

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    X2 push fork pls...
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho View Post
    When can we expect a Push manufactured fork?
    Probably when they can manufacture cast-lowers. That's usually the trick for forks, otherwise you have to CNC everything and go with something like an inverted fork (flexy) or obscene amount of material to CNC the lowers (1998 Marzocchi Super T). This is one reason why so many companies came out with inverted forks in the early 2000s, Risse, Hannebrink, Bullet Brothers, Stratos, others. It was easy to make them, relatively, but they handled horribly due to the torsional flex. Even companies like DVO contract out to have their lowers cast.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post

    That's the short version. I'd be happy to answer any questions that people may have.

    Darren
    What is your plan for future in house suspension products? Is there an Air shock or fork in the works? Will you only be making a top of the line products or do you intend on making a mid range products too?
    Last edited by Muggsly; 1 Week Ago at 06:11 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by J: View Post
    X2 push fork pls...
    tried an ACS3 converted 36?
    breezy shade

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    I love PUSH tuned fork and shock on my Turner.

    Made a good suspension work great.

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    Something non-disposable...enough with the $1k+ sh!t that doesn't last

    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    tried an ACS3 converted 36?
    Have not tried that...glad to finally see it for these "weight shaver" 36's


    I would love to see PUSH @165mm single crown chassis for stiff front carbon wheel, and what their products would look like for bushings,axles,csu,lowers etc...most importantly alignment...DO NOT CARE ABOUT WEIGHT, just performance, compatibility and durability (air/float SUPER SHORT service intervals are a joke and still ride like garbage)...have destroyed too many focks 36 vanillas due to poor press fittings in csu and poor lowers casting/bushings and or axle interface(post 2009 MY 26" chassis shaved off way too much weight...amount of deflection/twist in the 29" 36 when over 140mm is ****ed)
    ...

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Probably when they can manufacture cast-lowers. That's usually the trick for forks, otherwise you have to CNC everything and go with something like an inverted fork (flexy) or obscene amount of material to CNC the lowers (1998 Marzocchi Super T). This is one reason why so many companies came out with inverted forks in the early 2000s, Risse, Hannebrink, Bullet Brothers, Stratos, others. It was easy to make them, relatively, but they handled horribly due to the torsional flex. Even companies like DVO contract out to have their lowers cast.
    I've always thought that a Push (internals) and MRP (chassis) would've made sense.

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    Idea!

    Darren, any plans regarding updating your website to reflect your current bussiness direction? As it stands now, I can order service for an RP23, which you told me weeks ago was near impossible because of parts availability.
    ****

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    I guess I should've been more clear as I unfortunately won't be able to answer questions regarding any future product plans. I was just referring to questions about what we currently offer, items that you may have that we've already tuned, etc.

    Darren

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    Wow, way to step around my question. I am askng about something you currently offer, right now, right this minute, according to your website. Do you, or do you not, offer services for an RP23, which about three weeks ago you said, on this website, that parts were incredibly difficult to source, and you were phasing out of your service offers. Please state it now, right here; do you still offer NEW service on RP23's? Not RP's that you have serviced in the past. Is your website up to date? I have three RP23's I will send to you tomorrow if you can tell me what you are, and are not offering.
    ****

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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Wow, way to step around my question. I am askng about something you currently offer, right now, right this minute, according to your website. Do you, or do you not, offer services for an RP23, which about three weeks ago you said, on this website, that parts were incredibly difficult to source, and you were phasing out of your service offers. Please state it now, right here; do you still offer NEW service on RP23's? Not RP's that you have serviced in the past. Is your website up to date? I have three RP23's I will send to you tomorrow if you can tell me what you are, and are not offering.
    I didn't step around, I just hadn't refreshed my browser prior to posting. There's a misunderstanding here......while we are low on parts, it's the FOX parts that are no longer available. So if you have 3 shocks that are in good working order and don't require any FOX small parts such as worn shafts, seal housings, etc, than we can help you out. Shocks that require replacement FOX parts will not be able to be serviced.

    Darren

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    Well that's disappointing to hear push moving away from tuning and a bit odd honestly as it wasn't more than 6 or so years ago when It seemed push almost went under after investing tons of r&d into the vivid project and I believe Darren said they realized push is a tuner company and not a manufacturer. I don't doubt an 11/6 is an amazing shock but the others have gotten pretty damn good too and to charge 2x as much vs tuning the oem to dial in proper shim stacking etc. I could see probably having 10 shock revalues to one 11/6 sale but I don't know maybe 11/6 are flying off the shelves. I could see sending my RS super deluxe for a proper weight/ leverag valving if you still did RS support but I don't dislike my RS enough to buy a 1200 shock, in fact it's the opposite. The super deluxe is quiet impressive in stock form but I know from the past there is nothing like a proper valved shock (pushed dhx 5). All well I see Avalanche is now tuning the super deluxe.

    Surprising to see that as soon as parts are less available Push just shuts down service, yet others such as avalanche, dirtlabs, vorsprung etc aren't just dropping service so what gives?

    To original post you may call avalanche for the x2 as he is working on them and will even add a shim stacked main piston (something I was hopeing Push would do for years on the CCDB but never did).
    Last edited by Jesse Hill; 1 Week Ago at 03:16 PM. Reason: Adding recommendation to OP

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    Quote Originally Posted by flipnidaho View Post
    I've always thought that a Push (internals) and MRP (chassis) would've made sense.
    Agree, MRP, aka white brothers, have struggled with damping and lubrication in the past, but with push internals, that would close the loop. Offer the damping set to some predetermined weight ranges, etc...
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    Push ind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Hill View Post
    Well that's disappointing to hear push moving away from tuning and a bit odd honestly as it wasn't more than 6 or so years ago when It seemed push almost went under after investing tons of r&d into the vivid project and I believe Darren said they realized push is a tuner company and not a manufacturer. I don't doubt an 11/6 is an amazing shock but the others have gotten pretty damn good too and to charge 2x as much vs tuning the oem to dial in proper shim stacking etc. I could see probably having 10 shock revalues to one 11/6 sale but I don't know maybe 11/6 are flying off the shelves. I could see sending my RS super deluxe for a proper weight/ leverag valving if you still did RS support but I don't dislike my RS enough to buy a 1200 shock, in fact it's the opposite. The super deluxe is quiet impressive in stock form but I know from the past there is nothing like a proper valved shock (pushed dhx 5). All well I see Avalanche is now tuning the super deluxe.

    Surprising to see that as soon as parts are less available Push just shuts down service, yet others such as avalanche, dirtlabs, vorsprung etc aren't just dropping service so what gives?

    To original post you may call avalanche for the x2 as he is working on them and will even add a shim stacked main piston (something I was hopeing Push would do for years on the CCDB but never did).
    A lot can change in 6 years.

    Personally, I find nothing surprising about a company wanting to move away from tuning another company's products to manufacturing/tuning their own products.

    Also, I too would have a really hard time spending $1200 on a shock. But then again, $1100 or more isn't uncommon for a fork with [at least some] offshore manufactured parts. So...

    Anyway, I wish darren and push the best of luck. Even if I'm no longer a target customer of theirs.


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    It is a bit disappointing to hear, I have a Factory tuned 36 which I love. I've also had 3 Push tuned shocks over the years.

    While I never expected they would offer tunes for the X2, I secretly held out hope for my 2 X2's.

    Something I'm curious about though: is Fox not making parts available to them, or is Fox not manufacturing the parts anymore at all? Obviously, there will come a point where discontinuation of older parts will be necessary but I'm getting the sense that Push can't get ahold of parts for shocks that aren't necessarily that old yet? Because if Fox simply isn't supporting that stuff anymore then not even sending in to them will help.

    Maybe not surprising for the bike industry as a way to "force" people into buying new stuff, but seems a bit ham handed even for them (Fox / bike industry).

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    Quote Originally Posted by incubus View Post
    A lot can change in 6 years.

    Personally, I find nothing surprising about a company wanting to move away from tuning another company's products to manufacturing/tuning their own products.

    Also, I too would have a really hard time spending $1200 on a shock. But then again, $1100 or more isn't uncommon for a fork with [at least some] offshore manufactured parts. So...

    Anyway, I wish darren and push the best of luck. Even if I'm no longer a target customer of theirs.


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    The thing is, by tuning shocks, they support a wide range of products, from AM to XC to DH. They don't offer reasonable products in all of these areas for shocks and forks, so it leaves a huge hole in terms of custom tuned suspension. Maybe they'll have equivalents of all of these different coil, air, forks and shocks soon, but right now, huge gaps if they get out of tuning, and then you have your OEM stuff, which becomes even more worthless now if you are looking for tuned suspension, why am I buying a frame with a shock just to dump the shock?
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    Who said they actually won't be tuning? Recall Fox is offering their own custom tunes now so it isn't a far stretch to think they won't provide parts to Push or that Push just doesn't need to compete that way. No reason to be so hard on Push.

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    wasn't more than 6 or so years ago when It seemed push almost went under after investing tons of r&d into the vivid project and I believe Darren said they realized push is a tuner company and not a manufacturer.
    I'm not sure where you heard that, but it's completely false. During that period of the company we actually made one of the largest investments in manufacturing. We certainly didn't "almost go under".

    To be clear, FOX is happy to sell us parts. That being said, it's sometimes difficult to get parts for product that is older than 2 years. So right now trying to get parts for a model year 2015 fork or shock can be hit or miss. That's not too big of a deal for the smaller companies like Avy that are a single person working out of his garage, but for us, with our volume, it became a daily issue. When everyday you're having to tell yet another customer that we can't service your product due to replacement parts no longer being available you have to re-think what's best for the customer and that portion of our business offering.

    I love tuning suspension.....I've dedicated my whole career to it, and it has been very successful. You have to understand that over the last couple of years we have exhausted all efforts to continue with it and this has not been an easy decision.

    Again, this isn't to say that we're leaving suspension. Our DIY service kits and tools, as well as DIY mods such as our ACS kits are still a heavy focus of ours. We have new product development in those areas happening everyday here in engineering. Of all places I think the MTBR crowd would be most excited about our change in direction in offering more DIY stuff.

    Darren

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    Ones of the reasons I'd imagine they might think twice about offering custom tune on dhx2 and x2 is that these are shocks that could close the gap with a fully custom tune 11/6 while a float x or dps are not in the same league! I can see some customers that are willing to pay $1200 for a custom shock that would think twice when they can find fox x2/dhx2 for much less and get them custom tuned!

    to me seems like good business strategy!

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    My 0.02 cents...

    I think Push has become big enough they can move to bigger and better things, and work on projects they want to work on that can benefit everyone. I guess that's how a business grows and expands. Can't really fault them I guess.

    Someone mentioned Avalanche: they may still be able to tune older shocks because they specify your shock better be in good condition coming in. All they have to go is gut the shock and put their parts inside (I know it's more complicated than that, but essentially that's what they do after they R&D). Keep in mind, their website also shows you can order one of their DHF forks, which are no longer made from what I was told. So while they adding new stuff to their site, they're not removing the old.

    Re. the DHX2 and X2...while it's a good shock, it's still generic. I ran my X2 back to back with my MX-tune Fox DHX from Push and while the X2 performed pretty much as good while pedaling up the fire road, on the descent it was rougher compared to the Push shock. And yes, I had it dialed in.

    I agree though, Push should come out with a single tune shock. I'd be all over it. I still don't get why people spend a lot of money on Fox or CC when they can get a tuned, better shock from say Avalanche for around the same price. If you want the dual tune, you go Push.
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    I'm not sure where you heard that, but it's completely false. During that period of the company we actually made one of the largest investments in manufacturing. We certainly didn't "almost go under".

    To be clear, FOX is happy to sell us parts. That being said, it's sometimes difficult to get parts for product that is older than 2 years. So right now trying to get parts for a model year 2015 fork or shock can be hit or miss. That's not too big of a deal for the smaller companies like Avy that are a single person working out of his garage, but for us, with our volume, it became a daily issue. When everyday you're having to tell yet another customer that we can't service your product due to replacement parts no longer being available you have to re-think what's best for the customer and that portion of our business offering.

    I love tuning suspension.....I've dedicated my whole career to it, and it has been very successful. You have to understand that over the last couple of years we have exhausted all efforts to continue with it and this has not been an easy decision.

    Again, this isn't to say that we're leaving suspension. Our DIY service kits and tools, as well as DIY mods such as our ACS kits are still a heavy focus of ours. We have new product development in those areas happening everyday here in engineering. Of all places I think the MTBR crowd would be most excited about our change in direction in offering more DIY stuff.

    Darren
    Maybe going under was too strong but I remember the article in MBA or one of the mags years back after the vivid project was done and then discontinued it fell under something like it was an enormous r&d costs and we learned we are a tuning company not a shock manufacturing company etc etc, leaving the impression the profit vs development wasn't there and a big hit to profits.

    The DIY stuff is very cool and still a very cool company it's just too bad you have to give up one thing for another. I mean if the damper feels like shit or is way out of spec for your weight range etc then why even bother with an acs kit to just polish a turd (being drastic example). Most likely you'll be looking at a completely different fork then. Right now if someone calls and orders an acs kit and also doesn't like some aspect of the damper feel etc they have to go somewhere else to have that fixed and as the poster above said leaving a whole in your market.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    ...I still don't get why people spend a lot of money on Fox or CC when they can get a tuned, better shock from say Avalanche for around the same price. If you want the dual tune, you go Push.
    For those of us with 10 mm mounting hardware, the Chubie and Woodie are a no go (they use 8 mm hardware).

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    looking forward to Darren's response to this
    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Hill View Post
    Maybe going under was too strong but I remember the article in MBA or one of the mags years back after the vivid project was done and then discontinued it fell under something like it was an enormous r&d costs and we learned we are a tuning company not a shock manufacturing company etc etc, leaving the impression the profit vs development wasn't there and a big hit to profits.

    The DIY stuff is very cool and still a very cool company it's just too bad you have to give up one thing for another. I mean if the damper feels like shit or is way out of spec for your weight range etc then why even bother with an acs kit to just polish a turd (being drastic example). Most likely you'll be looking at a completely different fork then. Right now if someone calls and orders an acs kit and also doesn't like some aspect of the damper feel etc they have to go somewhere else to have that fixed and as the poster above said leaving a whole in your market.
    breezy shade

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jesse Hill View Post
    ...The DIY stuff is very cool and still a very cool company it's just too bad you have to give up one thing for another. I mean if the damper feels like shit or is way out of spec for your weight range etc then why even bother with an acs kit to just polish a turd (being drastic example). Most likely you'll be looking at a completely different fork then. Right now if someone calls and orders an acs kit and also doesn't like some aspect of the damper feel etc they have to go somewhere else to have that fixed and as the poster above said leaving a whole in your market.
    I do not believe this is correct. I had understood that Push is expecting to come out with a coil kit for all but first gen Pikes, similar to the 36 coil kit, in 1-2 months. I had also understood that they were hoping to offer damper tuning as an additional option.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    I agree though, Push should come out with a single tune shock. I'd be all over it. I still don't get why people spend a lot of money on Fox or CC when they can get a tuned, better shock from say Avalanche for around the same price. If you want the dual tune, you go Push.
    Every year the major manufacturers come out with a new shock and try to claim that this one is finally the golden BB that will rule all shocks that came before. This year, it's "metric" sizing that is supposedly going to end world hunger and make OEM shocks perform as good as aftermarket tunes. Thing is, it never actually happens...
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    I wonder how many people would send shocks to Push for servicing, vs. tuning?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Every year the major manufacturers come out with a new shock and try to claim that this one is finally the golden BB that will rule all shocks that came before. This year, it's "metric" sizing that is supposedly going to end world hunger and make OEM shocks perform as good as aftermarket tunes. Thing is, it never actually happens...
    Where has anybody claimed that metric sizing is anything other than metric sizing? Metric sizing makes a shock as good as an aftermarket tune? Where do you read this crap?

    Here's some reading for anybody who cares...

    http://m.vitalmtb.com/features/The-U...er-Deluxe,1349

    ...Personally, i can see why manufacturers would embrace metric shocks. However, the transition period must be painful for them.

    Imperial sizing... now that's dumb. Especially considering the rest of the world is using a much more intuitive system of measurement.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    I agree though, Push should come out with a single tune shock. I'd be all over it.
    I too would buy a Push shock that did not have the Dual Overhead Valve and was priced lower. Push should really consider this.
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    Maybe going under was too strong but I remember the article in MBA or one of the mags years back after the vivid project was done and then discontinued it fell under something like it was an enormous r&d costs and we learned we are a tuning company not a shock manufacturing company etc etc, leaving the impression the profit vs development wasn't there and a big hit to profits.
    The Vivid project was axed due to RS production issues and wasn't related to anything that we were doing. We continued on with the exact same product (MX-Tune) with FOX up until just last year. Anyway, no need to continue down this road.

    The DIY stuff is very cool and still a very cool company it's just too bad you have to give up one thing for another. I mean if the damper feels like shit or is way out of spec for your weight range etc then why even bother with an acs kit to just polish a turd (being drastic example). Most likely you'll be looking at a completely different fork then. Right now if someone calls and orders an acs kit and also doesn't like some aspect of the damper feel etc they have to go somewhere else to have that fixed and as the poster above said leaving a whole in your market.
    Our ACS3 kit with a stock damper is a bigger improvement than what PUSH or anyone else could do with tuning the fork. That's just the reality. Tuned air 36 vs ACS3 with a stock damper....the ACS3 version will, and did during testing, win every time.

    I do not believe this is correct. I had understood that Push is expecting to come out with a coil kit for all but first gen Pikes, similar to the 36 coil kit, in 1-2 months. I had also understood that they were hoping to offer damper tuning as an additional option.
    For riders looking for the ultimate we do offer our ACS3 and damper tuning options. As for the ACS3 PIKE kit, it is coming......

    I wonder how many people would send shocks to Push for servicing, vs. tuning?
    History has taught us that riders don't use PUSH for servicing....unless it's on their previously tuned suspension.

    Where has anybody claimed that metric sizing is anything other than metric sizing? Metric sizing makes a shock as good as an aftermarket tune? Where do you read this crap?
    Going to have to go with Jayem on this one. The marketplace is under the impression that a Metric shock is not a size, but rather a big performance upgrade. We talk to customers a lot explaining that our "Metric" ELEVENSIX is the same thing as our "Imperial" ELEVENSIX.

    I too would buy a Push shock that did not have the Dual Overhead Valve and was priced lower. Push should really consider this.
    Seems to be a theme!

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    ...As for the ACS3 PIKE kit, it is coming......
    Sweet damn. One stop shopping. I will be broke, but whatever.

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    Very cool. So you say you offer the acs3 and tuning package and then say as for the pike asc3 it is coming. What about us pike/lyrik rider with the charger? Will charger tuning be in the works? If not is there a reason why? The shim size seems fairly standard and it seems you re shim the fox so will RS options be a reality? At least I believe your re shimming it as it states for the factory fork system the rlc/rc2/fit 4 revalve for HSBC is for rc2 only but states tuned for rider weight, riding style and bike make so I can't see how the last bit could be done without a re shim. If your willing to re shim fox why not RS?

    Not trying to press you or hurt you but genuinely curious why it seems as time has gone by why the love affair for fox only even for a re shim.

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    ...Going to have to go with Jayem on this one. The marketplace is under the impression that a Metric shock is not a size, but rather a big performance upgrade. We talk to customers a lot explaining that our "Metric" ELEVENSIX is the same thing as our "Imperial" ELEVENSIX...
    I was challenging Jayem's comment that shock manufacturers are claiming that metric sizing is as good as an aftermarket tune.

    As for a customer who recently spent $1200 on a shock looking to that shock's manufacturer for a metric performance enhancement... just more evidence that some people have more money than brains. It's a bit depressing to be honest.

    That said, I maintain that the delusion of those persons with fat wallets and a fundamental misunderstanding of the word "sizing" wasn't shaped directly by the claims of suspension manufacturers.

    I know that manufacturers of all kinds of things can get cute with acronyms and marketing speak, but I've never seen one say metric sizing is akin to an aftermarket tune. But then again, I don't read everything. Hence my question as to where he reads that crap.



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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Our ACS3 kit with a stock damper is a bigger improvement than what PUSH or anyone else could do with tuning the fork. That's just the reality. Tuned air 36 vs ACS3 with a stock damper....the ACS3 version will, and did during testing, win every time.
    I can totally see that...even with my damper tuned with the available aftermarket stuff, and with my air spring using a better main seal, I still think Fox can go to hell with their air springs.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    ...I still think Fox can go to hell with their air springs.
    So can RockShox. Front and back. My Pike and Monarch Plus are abysmal. At best.

  47. #47
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    Darren,
    When can I get a metric sized ACS-3 for my Lyrik?
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    Darren,
    When can I get a metric sized ACS-3 for my Lyrik?
    Darren will make YOU anything you want. The rest of us will go on wanting...
    ****

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    Just to be clear, Push intends to offer tuning services to ACS3 users who bought the kit stand-alone, but later decide they want a revalve? Is that correct, for the foreseeable future?

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    Quote Originally Posted by incubus View Post
    I was challenging Jayem's comment that shock manufacturers are claiming that metric sizing is as good as an aftermarket tune.
    That was a general comment, every "innovation" is supposedly going to bring OEM shock performance to the "next level".

    Vanilla RC, the ultimate for suspension performance (w/ proprietary jackhammer compression adjustment)!

    DHX, it will finally decouple position sensitive damping from speed sensitive w/boost valve!

    RC4, because proper compression circuits are actually a good thing?

    RC4 -thin shaft without boost-valve, because spiking from the boost valve is bad?

    X2 - Because now we have finally done it?

    Metric - Oh, we needed more fluid volume all this time, duh!
    Last edited by Jayem; 4 Days Ago at 02:04 PM.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Metric - Oh, we needed more fluid volume all this time, duh!
    And more bushing overlap because RS shocks are crap.

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    Our ACS3 kit with a stock damper is a bigger improvement than what PUSH or anyone else could do with tuning the fork.
    Where would I find the ACS3 kit for a Fox 36 RC2 on the Push website and the price?

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    Push ind.

    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    That was a general comment, every "innovation" is supposedly going to bring OEM shock performance to the "next level".

    Vanilla RC, the ultimate for suspension performance (w/ proprietary jackhammer compression adjustment)!

    DHX, it will finally decouple position sensitive damping from speed sensitive!

    RC4, because proper compression circuits are actually a good thing?

    RC4 -thin shaft without boost-valve, because spiking is bad?

    X2 - Because now we have finally done it?

    Metric - Oh, we needed more fluid volume all this time, duh!
    I think it's time that you take off the tinfoil hat and go for a ride.


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    Quote Originally Posted by happyriding View Post
    Where would I find the ACS3 kit for a Fox 36 RC2 on the Push website and the price?
    https://www.pushindustries.com/colle...nt=43967701838

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    Wink You forgot the -designed around retardedly thick and rusty shims- part...

    Quote Originally Posted by jayem View Post
    that was a general comment, every "innovation" is supposedly going to bring oem shock performance to the "next level".

    Vanilla rc, the ultimate for suspension performance (w/ proprietary jackhammer compression adjustment)!

    Dhx, it will finally decouple position sensitive damping from speed sensitive!

    Rc4, because proper compression circuits are actually a good thing?

    Rc4 -thin shaft without boost-valve and thicker chassis, because spiking bad and the shock shouldn't crack in half?

    X2 - because now we have finally done it?

    Metric - oh, we needed more fluid volume all this time, duh!
    fify
    ...

  56. #56
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    No really, when do we get Push fork chassis (or at least lowers with replaceable/adjustable bushings). The $1k+ Rox Focks of today have been "one and done" throw away units
    ...

  57. #57
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    Oops, double post
    Last edited by Christopher Robin; 4 Days Ago at 10:56 AM.
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  58. #58
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    Quote Originally Posted by J: View Post
    fify
    Push ind.-romic2.jpg

    This was the third time it failed. At least it was dramatic
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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    Jayem is right though... Everytime Fox (and some others) comes out with something, online mags like Pinkbike start to gizz all over it and say it's the next best thing and a "game changer" (Fox must be paying off Pinkbike for positive reviews). Meanwhile people end up with issues with products out of the box. The DHX2 is essentially a CCDB with some tweaks, that's it. No real valving in there.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    Jayem is right though... Everytime Fox (and some others) comes out with something, online mags like Pinkbike start to gizz all over it and say it's the next best thing and a "game changer" (Fox must be paying off Pinkbike for positive reviews). Meanwhile people end up with issues with products out of the box. The DHX2 is essentially a CCDB with some tweaks, that's it. No real valving in there.
    Agree. It is ironic how the MTB community will continually throw money into "new" technology.
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  61. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Agree. It is ironic how the MTB community will continually throw money into "new" technology.
    https://artsbeat.blogs.nytimes.com/2...y-not/?mcubz=0

    Probably more f'ed up than ironic, but yeah. Agreed.

    ***as I sit here surfing 2018 frames with my obsolete Enve wheelset gathering dust in my garage***

    Some would say progress. Others would say industry conspiracist basturds. Maybe a bit of both...

  62. #62
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    Jayem is right though... Everytime Fox (and some others) comes out with something, online mags like Pinkbike start to gizz all over it and say it's the next best thing and a "game changer" (Fox must be paying off Pinkbike for positive reviews). Meanwhile people end up with issues with products out of the box. The DHX2 is essentially a CCDB with some tweaks, that's it. No real valving in there.
    It's not just fox and pinkbike. Any publication that collects advertising dollars from manufacturers (which is essentially all of them) isn't going to risk that revenue stream drying up. Ignoring suspension for the moment... when is the last time you read a scathing review from any mtb rag or blog? Sure, there's a criticism here and there, but almost every single review is overwhelmingly positive.


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    Quote Originally Posted by incubus View Post
    It's not just fox and pinkbike. Any publication that collects advertising dollars from manufacturers (which is essentially all of them) isn't going to risk that revenue stream drying up. Ignoring suspension for the moment... when is the last time you read a scathing review from any mtb rag or blog? Sure, there's a criticism here and there, but almost every single review is overwhelmingly positive.


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    that's not an Azonic Saber, is it?
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Click image for larger version. 

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    This was the third time it failed. At least it was dramatic
    breezy shade

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    Quote Originally Posted by nhodge View Post
    that's not an Azonic Saber, is it?
    Yep, and let me tell you, despite looking like a Turner RFX, it was nothing like a Turner RFX (which I later picked up as the 6-pack).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  66. #66
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    They're getting worse!

    Boy, that's an old one ; )... always done my best to not post snapages on here...
    ...

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by J: View Post
    Boy, that's an old one ; )... always done my best to not post snapages on here...
    Well, Romic lied about some of the problems the shock had, and it broke 3 times, so they worked extra hard to earn the picture. The saber was a POS because the linkage plates were very far apart and they simply used a long bolt to go through them and the shock, which would inevitably bend, due to leverage. This is why most other companies use 3d shaped linkages or massive hardware to deal with this, and it also led to ovalized holes where the bolt goes through. Not that I was expecting all that much for the price, it was definitely a "disposable" bike, but the shock only lasted a few months.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

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    the build quality was definitely lame, but i managed to keep it trail worthy for about 3years. luckily, my Romic puked quickly, got it warrantied, & no probs afterwards. fun geo, since it was RFX/6Pack like
    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    Yep, and let me tell you, despite looking like a Turner RFX, it was nothing like a Turner RFX (which I later picked up as the 6-pack).
    breezy shade

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    Jayem is right though... Everytime Fox (and some others) comes out with something, online mags like Pinkbike start to gizz all over it and say it's the next best thing and a "game changer" (Fox must be paying off Pinkbike for positive reviews). Meanwhile people end up with issues with products out of the box. The DHX2 is essentially a CCDB with some tweaks, that's it. No real valving in there.
    It's not just the mags and not just bikes. In every hobby / trade / industry the writers all want to move up in the world. And this has been true of every nut-book ever. The reviewers are scraping by getting pennies a word and selling review samples (which aren't worth much with bad reviews).

    What they want is a real job that pays real money. A job like marketing. Marketing jobs go to guys who can write snappy, readable copy that extols product virtues and has the air of truth to it.

    Damn near every reviewer is auditioning for a marketing job with damn near every review he writes. And, hell yes, the ad sales guys at the site or mag are perfectly happy with that arrangement.

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    Suspension monikerz made up fur mtb seem so outdated...
    ...

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