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  1. #1
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    Push ACS-3 Coil Conversion kit

    I have this in my PUSH-tuned 36. Best upgrade to my suspension since, well, since 11.6. Finally, a fork to match my shock. Great job PUSH !

    https://www.pinkbike.com/news/push-a...irst-look.html
    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 08-28-2017 at 10:21 AM.
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  2. #2
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    Are you still on the Push company payroll?
    ****

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Are you still on the Push company payroll?
    Never have been, never will be
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  4. #4
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    I just saw this today and emailed Suspension Werx in North Vancouver. I'm going to get one as soon as they're available! The website still says "coming soon"! My fork was push tuned last winter and it was a very big improvement. Looking forward to trying out the coil spring!

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    Looks great! Curious about how it stacks up against the new Ohlins coil 36.

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    I'm not sure that would be a good comparison - I am assuming the spring rate and dampener are designed in conjunction on the Ohlins where as this is just a modification to only the spring side.

  7. #7
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    I know people come at the Push thing with a money no object stance...but $400 for a coil spring conversion is quite expensive. I'm really hoping that this prompts companies like Fox and Rockshox to think about coil spring options for their forks. The Elevensix seemed to convince bigger players to offer coil springs aimed at non-downhill disciplines, at a much more reasonable cost than push (less than half the price).

  8. #8
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    1500+ for a 36 coil with custom tune! if you go all push that sets you up for a $2k7 which is the price of a pretty nice carbon frame + shock!

    definitely a premium market and customer focused product!

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    Quote Originally Posted by chuckiebruster View Post
    I'm not sure that would be a good comparison - I am assuming the spring rate and dampener are designed in conjunction on the Ohlins where as this is just a modification to only the spring side.
    Yeah, I mean, you're probably right...but taking an (MRSP) $900-1000 shock and adding a $400 coil spring to it, I would hope that it was comparable. Otherwise I'd just be inclined to sell off the Pike/36/whatever and spend the money on the Ohlins.

  10. #10
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    for that price, I'll go for avalanche

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  11. #11
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    I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.

    Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?

  12. #12
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    Keep going Push, you are almost there for the 5000$ combo kit extravaganza.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.

    Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?
    As good as you think the air spring is, the coil is that much better. And air performance will inevitably deteriorate with time. Their tune works complimentary to the coil spring, and the combo of spring and damper tune is the bees knees. The pink bike article says that it's not easy to revert back to air because of wear issues, but I doubt you'd want to.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

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  14. #14
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    Supposedly one already exists for the pike, £149.00

    Rock Shox Pike Coil Conversion Kit - Coil Conversion Kits - TF Tuned
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  15. #15
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    Weight?

    What's the addditional weight penalty of this conversion?

  16. #16
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    200-something grams.... Pretty decent for the benefits of coil sprung suspension.

    While I wish they didn't have to include that ramp up thing, I guess it's necessary since the RC2 damper (or charger) isn't an Avalanche cartridge with mid valves and hydraulic anti bottom out.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by Christopher Robin View Post
    200-something grams.... Pretty decent for the benefits of coil sprung suspension.

    While I wish they didn't have to include that ramp up thing, I guess it's necessary since the RC2 damper (or charger) isn't an Avalanche cartridge with mid valves and hydraulic anti bottom out.
    The fox carts have a hydraulic bottom-out system, however, very old 36s were not adjustable for this. There is some debate on Ridemonkey right now as to whether you really need the additional bottom-out protection over and above that already offered by the fox cartridge:

    Quote Originally Posted by Udi, post: 4215390, member: 11350
    I've already shared my thoughts on coil spring rates and bottom out resistance earlier in the thread. "Over-spring" could mean many things depending on which factors you considered when modeling an existing air sprung fork. I think you may be referring to the very old VAN36 there too, as the HBO was non-adjustable (from memory) on the inverted-RC2 equipped VAN36 (circa 2011-2013). The pre-invert dampers were heavily lacking in compression damping so it's not really a fair comparison.

    The answer to your question is somewhat travel-dependent. Personally I'd rather jump up to the 170mm 36 if running out of travel was an issue (= no weight penalty from memory) rather than lug around a sealed air spring unit inside my coil spring. But, full disclosure: I ride a DH bike for stuff that needs 203mm of travel - I run a coil converted new 40 (standard spring for my weight per Fox guidelines), which I've tested with the HBO damper and non-HBO damper. I prefer the non-HBO and very rarely bottom it out (usually only on a botched big landing).

    For people hitting bikeparks / big stuff on their 160mm fork a bottom out system may well be necessary (which is fair and probably describes an increasing number of users - so I don't disagree with you) but I would have solved the problem in a more cost- and weight-conscious way personally. The HBO damper added only ~15g.

    I think there would be a far bigger market for a lower priced system with a far more basic bottom out system if deemed necessary. I think two versions would net greater sales/profits and reach a bigger audience. If the ABS could be retrofitted it'd be even better, letting people decide (and spend the extra) if they need it for their riding application. Just an idea.
    If you really want to go coil, it may be possible to disable the pneumatic bottom-out? Would be nice like you say. There's the TFT kit for the pike that might work for the lyrik?

    I have to say that running my RFX with the avalanche fork and avalanched RC4 feels extremely balanced. I know with a coil front it'd have even "moar" front traction, but damn if it doesn't already feel like a million bucks and doesn't leave me wanting more on DH. At the rear end of the bike there's still a significant difference between my tuned Monarch+ and the coil RC4, but I don't think quite so much on the front end, although again, I'm sure coil would be better. I've had some shitty coil forks though that my current lyrik+avy just blows away, every one of them in fact, except the avy-cart I had in the 888.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  18. #18
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    Push ASC-3 Coil Conversion kit

    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.

    Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?
    By definition, if your air spring is perfect, the coil can't be any better (perfecter). It can only be just as good (or also perfect).
    That said, spend your hard earned money elsewhere


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  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by bbbbking View Post
    for that price, I'll go for avalanche

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    Avalanche doesn't offer a coil conversion. If they did, I'd have one in my 36 along with the AVA cartridge thats already in there.

  20. #20
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    If you really want to go coil, it may be possible to disable the pneumatic bottom-out? Would be nice like you say.
    I really don't understand why people would think that we would spend all of the time and money developing the Air Bump Stop if it wasn't necessary? It by far was the most expensive and time consuming pat of the development process!

    When was the last time you saw a thread talking about increasing the air volume of an air fork to make to more linear? There's a reason riders are using tokens with air springs.

    Darren

  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by the-one1 View Post
    Avalanche doesn't offer a coil conversion. If they did, I'd have one in my 36 along with the AVA cartridge thats already in there.
    You are correct. They offer an open bath conversion kit. It is really good and is a huge upgrade to the fork, especially if you are outside the ideal weight range for the stock set up. It's about the same price as the push kit.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    I really don't understand why people would think that we would spend all of the time and money developing the Air Bump Stop if it wasn't necessary? It by far was the most expensive and time consuming pat of the development process!

    When was the last time you saw a thread talking about increasing the air volume of an air fork to make to more linear? There's a reason riders are using tokens with air springs.

    Darren
    If a pneumatic bump stop is necessary, when can we expect to see one replace the static bump stop on the 11.6, which, following the same rationale, is insufficient? I get that leverage ratios impact this, but you could add even more tuneability.

    If your interst is adding non linearity back in to a linear system, why not just spec variable rate coils? You may loose a bit of tuneability of your variable pressure bump stop, but you'ld decrease cost, complexity, and weight.

    At any rate, we appreciate options and progression. Develop on!
    Last edited by tdc_worm; 07-19-2017 at 10:33 AM.

  23. #23
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    If a pneumatic bump stop is necessary, when can we expect to see one replace the static bump stop on the 11.6, which, following the same rationale, is insufficient? I get that leverage ratios impact this, but you could add even more tuneability.
    You touched on it....the biggest factor being motion rate, and more importantly the percentage of rise in rate accomplished by the linkage. Whether mechanical(cellular bump stop), or pneumatic(air pressure) we're getting the same result. The ABS just offers the rider the ability to easily adjust it.

    If your interst is adding non linearity back in to a linear system, why not just spec variable rate coils? You may loose a bit of tuneability of your variable pressure bump stop, but you'ld decrease cost, complexity, and weight.
    We tried progressively wound springs, which are much heavier, but ultimately decided on the ABS due to both weight and user tuneability.

    Darren

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    You touched on it....the biggest factor being motion rate, and more importantly the percentage of rise in rate accomplished by the linkage. Whether mechanical(cellular bump stop), or pneumatic(air pressure) we're getting the same result. The ABS just offers the rider the ability to easily adjust it.

    We tried progressively wound springs, which are much heavier, but ultimately decided on the ABS due to both weight and user tuneability.

    Darren
    Cool. We are sure you have done your homework, just trying to gain a better understanding. My initial thought is why not just use an anti-bottoming solution on the damper side. We see that in other cartridge options in both MX and MTB, while not seeing the implementation of pneumatic bump stops. Of course, this involves getting in to both sides of the fork.

    To that end, does your valving approach change for the spring conversion? I suspect so...and I am guessing that a revalve would be more critical after the conversion?

  25. #25
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    Sooo, we are taking a $1000 fork and adding a $400 aftermarket coil to essentially get a 6 year old $900 Fox Van. Right.

    The bike industry is so screwed up.

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    this conversion kit is only for the air leg of the fork and still depends on the rebound and compression settings of the damper cartridge. If a rider is outside the optimal weight range for the fork is this kit really going to make that big of a difference? In other words, are issues of easily bottoming out and lack of mid stroke support dealt with without the need of a custom tune at an additional charge.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by A_street View Post
    this conversion kit is only for the air leg of the fork and still depends on the rebound and compression settings of the damper cartridge. If a rider is outside the optimal weight range for the fork is this kit really going to make that big of a difference? In other words, are issues of easily bottoming out and lack of mid stroke support dealt with without the need of a custom tune at an additional charge.
    That's a bit more direct way to get at the questions I was asking above. I suspect that valving for an air spring differs from valving for a coil spring to take advantage of each springs characteristics. Valving also is dependent on rider weight....Push uses different shim stacks for the 11.6 based off of rider weight.

    In the case of an OEM fork cartridge, they are valved to work with the broadest range of customers, making performance "acceptable" out of the box. If the fork cartridges were more specific for weight or spring characteristics then less users would find them acceptable and they would get negative reviews. Same with spring weights, which is why an air spring makes sense for the masses.

    With that in mind, it seems that just moving to a spring could cause issues on the damper side. If the damper is already not optimized for rider weight, and you complicate that by altering the spring characteristics, then a revalve would be in order. In MX, when you send your OEM suspenders off to get worked on, in most cases, both the springs and valving are changed. I'm okay with that. But, since (or more appropriately "if") that is the case, then a hydraulic bottom out solution on the damper side seems way more reasonable from a cost, weight, and complexity position, BECAUSE you will need to go in to the damper side anyways. Even without that, it turns the prospect of a $400 spring change in to a $650 venture when you include Push's revalve and service.....

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Even without that, it turns the prospect of a $400 spring change in to a $650 venture when you include Push's revalve and service.....
    That and they don't off the revalve service for Pikes.

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by slim2none View Post
    Sooo, we are taking a $1000 fork and adding a $400 aftermarket coil to essentially get a 6 year old $900 Fox Van. Right.

    The bike industry is so screwed up.
    Nope. The people are screwed up, not the industry. They are giving the people what they want and will buy. The people buying the $1000 fork and feeling disappointed and buying a $400 spring. We are all sheep.

    Anybody else remember when we complained about the $50 spring for the Judy? Seems like such a long time ago...
    On MTBR, the reputation is infamous.

  30. #30
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    Sounds somewhat similar to what DVO did with the diamond. The OTT is an adjustable coil spring in the air side. OTT gives you the supple initial travel and support while the air keeps it from bottoming out.

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Nope. The people are screwed up, not the industry. They are giving the people what they want and will buy. The people buying the $1000 fork and feeling disappointed and buying a $400 spring.
    The industry as in "manufacturers and consumers" are screwed up. Happy?

    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Nope. We are all sheep.
    Speak for yourself.

  32. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I just got a tuned 2018 Fox 36 RC2 from them a few weeks ago to match the ElevenSix on my Nomad. Is it that much better? Because so far with the air spring my bike is feeling perfect.

    Also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. can you go back to air?
    No going back. To use an air spring the inside of the stanchion needs to be flawless. If you have a coil spring smacking around in there chances are no matter how much you grease the spring it will take it's toll on the inside of the stanchion.
    Hello, my name is human and I came down from the stars.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by txnavy View Post
    also wondering if it's reversible...i.e. Can you go back to air?
    neever go back to air spring, t'is garbage after one good ride!!!!
    ...

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by J: View Post
    neever go back to air spring, t'is garbage after one good ride!!!!
    exactly. there's zero reason to go back
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  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by CUP-TON View Post
    No going back. To use an air spring the inside of the stanchion needs to be flawless. If you have a coil spring smacking around in there chances are no matter how much you grease the spring it will take it's toll on the inside of the stanchion.
    I understand the problem, I just wondered if there was a plastic sleeve or something to prevent it as that's what I would do. Guess not...

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  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by TXNavy View Post
    I understand the problem, I just wondered if there was a plastic sleeve or something to prevent it as that's what I would do. Guess not...

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    There is a way but only using RS parts and it's not guaranteed.
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    I would be interested in the push conversion kit. Unfortunatelly, it is not available for 180mm travel. Does anybody know if there is any alternative available from another manufacturer? I'm looking to get a more plush feeling out of my fox 36...

  38. #38
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    So who thinks that Rock Shox and Fox will be releasing updated coil forks next year.

    Erik

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    So who thinks that Rock Shox and Fox will be releasing updated coil forks next year.

    Erik
    I think it will come at some point, 2019 lineup maybe, ohlins already has a 36 coil 29er, so others are looking for sure!

  40. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by bedell99 View Post
    So who thinks that Rock Shox and Fox will be releasing updated coil forks next year.

    Erik
    I hope so. I also hope Push comes up with a kit for the Lyrik/Yari

  41. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigcrs View Post
    I hope so. I also hope Push comes up with a kit for the Lyrik/Yari
    Agreed - discounted Yari + Push coil - cost of factory Fox 36 before the Push kit... that would interest me now

  42. #42
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    Unfortunately, we will not be offering the kit for the Yari/Lyrik due to the stanchion tube having a smaller inside diameter.

    Darren

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    Defiantly unfortunate. Thanks for the clarification.

    Fingers crossed that Super Alloy Racing pulls their finger out and makes their kit available.

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  44. #44
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    Darren,
    Is the air abs serving any other purpose other than bottom out control? If not and my Pike set up has abs covered on the damper end, can this kit be ordered with just the other parts to convert to coil?

  45. #45
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    Darren,
    Is the air abs serving any other purpose other than bottom out control? If not and my Pike set up has abs covered on the damper end, can this kit be ordered with just the other parts to convert to coil?
    ^^^^^this. Although it appears that the new top cap/bump stop so serves as the upper spring seat. Pretty sure we know what the answer is going to be here.

  46. #46
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    Darren,
    Is the air abs serving any other purpose other than bottom out control? If not and my Pike set up has abs covered on the damper end, can this kit be ordered with just the other parts to convert to coil?
    This seems to be a common misconception that I read a lot on the internet. Springs and dampers have different roles and one can't compensate for the other.

    Springs generate load based on position and therefore control ride height and bottoming.

    Dampers generate force based on velocity and therefore control the suspensions ride characteristic.

    Hydraulic bottoming devices are designed to provide a level of protection once you've already arrived at the end of travel, but don't help you from getting there.

    Off-road MTB suspension requires a progressive spring in order to provide a balanced ride of small bump sensitivity and big hit control. Applications that don't provide this are a compromise.

    Darren

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    This seems to be a common misconception that I read a lot on the internet. Springs and dampers have different roles and one can't compensate for the other.

    Springs generate load based on position and therefore control ride height and bottoming.

    Dampers generate force based on velocity and therefore control the suspensions ride characteristic.

    Hydraulic bottoming devices are designed to provide a level of protection once you've already arrived at the end of travel, but don't help you from getting there.

    Off-road MTB suspension requires a progressive spring in order to provide a balanced ride of small bump sensitivity and big hit control. Applications that don't provide this are a compromise.

    Darren
    Kayaba, Showa, WP and Ohlins will be glad to hear this. If there is one thing that has been missing from the motocross world it is suspension that can allow riders to blast braking bumps and be able land smoothly on 120 ft table tops. Probably explains why they dont reach the speeds that Enduro does...they just can't find the control. If they only had the money and the minds to solve the problem.

  48. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by tdc_worm View Post
    Kayaba, Showa, WP and Ohlins will be glad to hear this. If there is one thing that has been missing from the motocross world it is suspension that can allow riders to blast braking bumps and be able land smoothly on 120 ft table tops. Probably explains why they dont reach the speeds that Enduro does...they just can't find the control. If they only had the money and the minds to solve the problem.
    I'm not sure why the sarcasm when you're actually confirming what I'm saying?

    Prior to starting PUSH I had a successful career in Motorsports and am overly familiar with the companies that you listed. I'm also an avid moto rider and still provide support for professional teams such as Factory Honda's road racing effort in my spare time as it's a passion of mine.

    To my point, not one of the brands you listed even offer a suspension fork that has a linear spring. 100% of off-road motorcycle suspension forks that utilize a coil spring, use a secondary air spring to create a progressive spring rate. Every KYB, every Showa, every WP, and every Ohlins.

    Darren

  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    I'm not sure why the sarcasm when you're actually confirming what I'm saying?

    Prior to starting PUSH I had a successful career in Motorsports and am overly familiar with the companies that you listed. I'm also an avid moto rider and still provide support for professional teams such as Factory Honda's road racing effort in my spare time as it's a passion of mine.

    To my point, not one of the brands you listed even offer a suspension fork that has a linear spring. 100% of off-road motorcycle suspension forks that utilize a coil spring, use a secondary air spring to create a progressive spring rate. Every KYB, every Showa, every WP, and every Ohlins.

    Darren
    Agreed, and not questioning your credentials. Also not passing judgment on the performance of the system.

    The oil height can be adjusted to alter the feel of the mx fork as it changes air volume, changing the progressitivity of the fork. It's what we do in mtb w tokens and spacers. Doesn't change the fact that their bottom out control is handled on the damper side.

    Probably semantics, but I am not 100% convinced that dampers generate force, or anything else for that matter. I am guessing the compression circuit diffuses the energy delivered to the system by the rider while the rebound circuit diffuses the stored energy delivered by the spring; air, coil or otherwise.

    At any rate, I expect your system to perform, but I also believe the hump stop is a band aid for a damper, that in its stock form, isn't equipped to tolerate the the linear nature of the coil. To your point, the spring and the valving have different jobs. What they do not do, is work independently of one another.

  50. #50
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    The oil height can be adjusted to alter the feel of the mx fork as it changes air volume, changing the progressitivity of the fork. It's what we do in mtb w tokens and spacers. Doesn't change the fact that their bottom out control is handled on the damper side.
    No, the oil volume adjustment in the fork is specifically used to alter the spring rate. There is no control on the damper side to only effect bottoming.

    Probably semantics, but I am not 100% convinced that dampers generate force, or anything else for that matter. I am guessing the compression circuit diffuses the energy delivered to the system by the rider while the rebound circuit diffuses the stored energy delivered by the spring; air, coil or otherwise.
    It's not a convincing thing it's just fact. The only way to measure the performance of a damper is by measuring the force that it generates at a specific velocity.

    At any rate, I expect your system to perform, but I also believe the hump stop is a band aid for a damper, that in its stock form, isn't equipped to tolerate the the linear nature of the coil. To your point, the spring and the valving have different jobs. What they do not do, is work independently of one another.
    Again, it's not a band-aid. There is nothing you can do to the damper to making it progressive. If you change the compression to decrease the acceleration of the fork or shock, you will also reduce it's ability to move at that velocity even if just a small impact. If this was possible moto forks would be made pounds lighter and use the fluid for lubrication only and not for the air spring characteristic.

    Darren

  51. #51
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    I'm taking this as a " No."

  52. #52
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    Darren,
    Another question: The video states the air device has an effect only on the last third of travel. Does this mean that the abs piston is static ( thus not introducing friction ((elimination of which is one of my primary motives for this coil conversion project)) until the final third of travel ?

  53. #53
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Unfortunately, we will not be offering the kit for the Yari/Lyrik due to the stanchion tube having a smaller inside diameter.

    Darren
    Darren, where is your bussiness going? I e-mailed Push a couple weeks ago about having a service done, and Ryan's reply was that the company is moving away from the service part of the bussiness, to focus on manufacturing. So you make the 11-6, and now this product for the 36; what els are you going to maufacture to pay those monthly installments on those CNC,s?
    ****

  54. #54
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    Another question: The video states the air device has an effect only on the last third of travel. Does this mean that the abs piston is static ( thus not introducing friction ((elimination of which is one of my primary motives for this coil conversion project)) until the final third of travel ?
    That is correct. Friction is certainly a component, but more for us was eliminating the compressed airs influence in the initial part of the stroke. Having as a separate unit gives us much better performance and tuneability.

    Darren, where is your bussiness going? I e-mailed Push a couple weeks ago about having a service done, and Ryan's reply was that the company is moving away from the service part of the bussiness, to focus on manufacturing. So you make the 11-6, and now this product for the 36; what els are you going to maufacture to pay those monthly installments on those CNC,s?
    Not so much moving away as shifting the focus. Service, Tuning, and Re-Configuring ELEVENSIX shocks is now a significant portion of our Technical Service Department. As is the installation of ACS3 kits into customer forks as well as the purchase of new 36 forks built to spec with our ACS3 kit. So we're still performing the same amount of work, just on more of our own product. Additionally, the major manufacturers have changed the way they do business which has changed the way that we can support their products with aftermarket service and tuning. We saw this writing on the wall early on and made adjustments. It's been quite a while since you visited and I know you'd be pretty stoked to see what our manufacturing department has turned into! Just installed another new Citizen swiss last week!

    Darren

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    Any idea when the ACS3 kit will be available for the Fox fork in sizes in addition to the 160 mm fork?

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Not so much moving away as shifting the focus. Service, Tuning, and Re-Configuring ELEVENSIX shocks is now a significant portion of our Technical Service Department. As is the installation of ACS3 kits into customer forks as well as the purchase of new 36 forks built to spec with our ACS3 kit. So we're still performing the same amount of work, just on more of our own product.
    Does this mean you are phasing out or no longer doing the tuning and service work? If so, is there a date you plan on no longer offering it?

    I was hoping to get the used 36 I bought over to you guys but was going to wait until I needed a rebuild, if this is the plan then I might do it sooner. I know others (Fox, etc) are offering similar services, but I don't think they do it to the level of detail or in a way that is as consumer friendly as you guys.

  57. #57
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    Any idea when the ACS3 kit will be available for the Fox fork in sizes in addition to the 160 mm fork?
    MAybe as early as today, but definitely this week.

    Does this mean you are phasing out or no longer doing the tuning and service work? If so, is there a date you plan on no longer offering it?

    I was hoping to get the used 36 I bought over to you guys but was going to wait until I needed a rebuild, if this is the plan then I might do it sooner. I know others (Fox, etc) are offering similar services, but I don't think they do it to the level of detail or in a way that is as consumer friendly as you guys.
    There isn't really a date as we're just phasing out any new development, as well as offerings on products that the original manufacturer no longer supports.

    Darren

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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    There isn't really a date as we're just phasing out any new development, as well as offerings on products that the original manufacturer no longer supports.
    Darren
    So does Fox no longer support their coil shocks?
    I asked Ryan if you guys could build me an MX-tune, in and 8.5 by 2.5. I told him I would donate my MX-tuned 7.5 by 2.0 for all the parts you most likely did not have; the Bridge, the hi/lo valve, piston etc. I asked him to run it by you as well.....did he?
    ****

  59. #59
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    So does Fox no longer support their coil shocks?
    I asked Ryan if you guys could build me an MX-tune, in and 8.5 by 2.5. I told him I would donate my MX-tuned 7.5 by 2.0 for all the parts you most likely did not have; the Bridge, the hi/lo valve, piston etc. I asked him to run it by you as well.....did he?
    Parts supply on pre-2016 shocks is often questionable. Your request was run by me but don't remember specifically why we were not able to bring it in for service.

    Darren

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    Apologies on allowing the tone to be adversarial...it was unnecessary. For the record, I own three 11.6 shocks. The perform as advertised and were well worth the money. I expect that the ACS3 system will also, exceed expectations, and I hope Push sells a bazillion of them...a couple of which may still find there way to me. I am down to learn and happy to eat my humble pie...

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    No, the oil volume adjustment in the fork is specifically used to alter the spring rate. There is no control on the damper side to only effect bottoming.
    We are in violent agreement that even in a coil spring system, there is a volume of air which is compressed as the fork compresses, making the system progressive. That volume of air, in MX coil forks, can be adjusted by adding or removing oil. In air spring MTB forks, that volume of air can be altered by adding or removing tokens. Both use different mechanisms to accomplish the same thing: change volume to impact progressiveness. From the mtb perspective, Avalanche has a specific oil height they like to use on the damper side....I am guessing to further impact the progressivity of the system.

    As for bottom out control on the damper side help me understand this, which I have on my Avalanche cartridge Fox 36:

    Anti-Bottoming System Varaitions

    On my Ohlins RXF 48 forks on my KTM, I have these:

    MX-Tech Works - Huck Valve - MX-Tech

    Both items seem to be anti bottoming solutions that use hydraulic lockouts independent of the spring, and I for the life of me I cannot get either of them to violently bottom out.


    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    It's not a convincing thing it's just fact. The only way to measure the performance of a damper is by measuring the force that it generates at a specific velocity.
    Insert first serving of humble pie. Sir Isaac Newton and his third Law Should be insulted by my lack of knowledge retention. I was looking at it from the perspective that the damper doesn't generate the force....that the input from the rider and the ground generated the force, to which the damper applies resistance. Alas, for every action there is an equal and opposite reaction, and I concede, its not semantics, resistance is a force.

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Again, it's not a band-aid. There is nothing you can do to the damper to making it progressive. If you change the compression to decrease the acceleration of the fork or shock, you will also reduce it's ability to move at that velocity even if just a small impact. If this was possible moto forks would be made pounds lighter and use the fluid for lubrication only and not for the air spring characteristic.

    Darren
    Can you help us understand the difference between speed sensitive and position sensitive valving as well as what what the purpose of multi stage shim stacks is? From what I remember from reading The Suspension Bible (forgive me its been more than 5 years ago), you can stiffen valving while still having it remain compliant (i.e first stage is compliant, and once that stage is overwhelmed in the face of increased oil velocity, the next stage(s) are significantly stiffer).

    Perhaps my struggle is this: Typically the first thing you should do to an MX bike is send the suspension in to have it resprung and revalved for your weight and riding style and ability. I cannot ever remember getting the advice that stock valving is suitable for all riders, so only a re-spring is necessary. In the instance of a Fox 36 fork, that would require your Factory Tune in addition to the ACS3 kit. Labeling it as an "Air Bump Stop" likely muddied the waters enough to make me think it was taking care of something that the STOCK valving couldn't handle on its own in the presence of a linear spring, which it was not originally configured to work with. Returning it a progressive system, to some degree, removes the need to get into the damper.

    At any rate, I am sure it performs, your team wouldn't be around if you failed to deliver. Apologies for ruffling feathers.

  61. #61
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    Guys! Anyone have some reviews of this upgrade? I want to hear about some user experiences...less engineering nerdness.

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    Quote Originally Posted by artsn View Post
    guys! Anyone have some reviews of this upgrade? I want to hear about some user experiences...less engineering nerdness.
    plus one!!!

  63. #63
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    Darren,
    When will the Pike kits be available (130mm specifically)?

  64. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by artsn View Post
    Guys! Anyone have some reviews of this upgrade? I want to hear about some user experiences...less engineering nerdness.
    Ground traction is unreal. super smooth throughout the entire stoke. Despite some nasty hits, I've yet to find bottom per the o-ring, yet I never feel like I'm short on travel - it's there if I need it. Damping controls are superb as well, but I have the Push tune, not the stock Fox.

    One of my friends, who is a very skilled rider, is a doubting Thomas type. He tried my bike once, walked into PUSH (local for is) the next day and bought a new fully equipped 36. His comment: "this is next level stuff". Two other of my friends are queuing up to make the switch as well.

    I have a hard time believing that anyone would go back to stock air after trying this system
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  65. #65
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Parts supply on pre-2016 shocks is often questionable. Your request was run by me but don't remember specifically why we were not able to bring it in for service.

    Darren
    Is parts supply questionable for the RP23's that you still service?
    ****

  66. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    Is parts supply questionable for the RP23's that you still service?
    Parts for RP2/3/23 are more than questionable, they're extinct except for a few pieces in stock. I'll have to check, but it was my understanding that those have already been pulled.

    Darren

  67. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SyT View Post
    Darren,
    When will the Pike kits be available (130mm specifically)?
    We don't have dates yet. Also, 130mm is not confirmed. 140-160 for sure though.

    Darren

  68. #68
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    Apologies on allowing the tone to be adversarial...it was unnecessary. For the record, I own three 11.6 shocks. The perform as advertised and were well worth the money. I expect that the ACS3 system will also, exceed expectations, and I hope Push sells a bazillion of them...a couple of which may still find there way to me. I am down to learn and happy to eat my humble pie...
    I didn't take it as adversarial...my apologies if I came off that way. Tone seems to always be lost on message boards unfortunately.

    We are in violent agreement that even in a coil spring system, there is a volume of air which is compressed as the fork compresses, making the system progressive. That volume of air, in MX coil forks, can be adjusted by adding or removing oil. In air spring MTB forks, that volume of air can be altered by adding or removing tokens. Both use different mechanisms to accomplish the same thing: change volume to impact progressiveness. From the mtb perspective, Avalanche has a specific oil height they like to use on the damper side....I am guessing to further impact the progressivity of the system.

    As for bottom out control on the damper side help me understand this, which I have on my Avalanche cartridge Fox 36:

    Anti-Bottoming System Varaitions

    On my Ohlins RXF 48 forks on my KTM, I have these:

    MX-Tech Works - Huck Valve - MX-Tech

    Both items seem to be anti bottoming solutions that use hydraulic lockouts independent of the spring, and I for the life of me I cannot get either of them to violently bottom out.
    Jeremy Wilkey is a smart dude that I have a lot of respect for. Both his Huck Valve(very advanced shimmed system) and the Avy system(basic cup/cone) control having a violent end stroke once you've already got there. These systems are used in addition to a progressive spring mechanism and velocity sensitive damper.

    While you can use our ABS for just bottoming control, it's designed to work with the coil spring over the entire stroke of the fork. Better yet, it's simply externally adjustable allowing you the rider to define it's purpose trail side! ]

    Can you help us understand the difference between speed sensitive and position sensitive valving as well as what what the purpose of multi stage shim stacks is? From what I remember from reading The Suspension Bible (forgive me its been more than 5 years ago), you can stiffen valving while still having it remain compliant (i.e first stage is compliant, and once that stage is overwhelmed in the face of increased oil velocity, the next stage(s) are significantly stiffer).
    First off, all suspension forks and shocks are "Speed Sensitive"....even if it is also position sensitive. It doesn't matter if it is a port orifice system with a single hole, or an advanced multi-stage piston/multi-stage valving arrangement.....compression and rebound damping are measured by how much force is being generated at a given velocity. The idea of "upgrading" or "converting to "Speed Sensitive" is bogus.

    As for position sensitive, there are many forms of this but the basis is on changing the damping force range based on where the suspension is in the stroke. This is commonly done with bypass systems that allow some of the oil to pass freely in the first part of the stroke, and then removing that bypass later on in the shocks travel. Here's a good link showing a FOX system: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HBjZu3TfjF8

    Lastly is multi-stage valving. This is a method of allowing you to run higher damping force for aggressive riding as your base setting, while still trying to give the rider a bit of comfort at lower suspension velocities. It's quite simple really. There's a lot of misinformation that using multi stacks are a way of creating all of this wizardry and multiple suspension characteristics for varied terrain, but it's really not that complex.

    Perhaps my struggle is this: Typically the first thing you should do to an MX bike is send the suspension in to have it resprung and revalved for your weight and riding style and ability. I cannot ever remember getting the advice that stock valving is suitable for all riders, so only a re-spring is necessary. In the instance of a Fox 36 fork, that would require your Factory Tune in addition to the ACS3 kit. Labeling it as an "Air Bump Stop" likely muddied the waters enough to make me think it was taking care of something that the STOCK valving couldn't handle on its own in the presence of a linear spring, which it was not originally configured to work with. Returning it a progressive system, to some degree, removes the need to get into the damper.
    I would never recommend sending your suspension off to a tuner before riding it and thoroughly exploring the base settings unless you're wildly off the scale of the stock suspension in weight or ability, or have had a similar vehicle already tuned by someone you have a relationship with. The stock suspension with a little time will fit a large portion of the rider base. Or ACS3 kit was designed specifically to work with the stock fork chassis and damper settings. For the minority of riders that fall outside the range of the stock settings than we certainly offer tuning for that!

    Darren

  69. #69
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Parts for RP2/3/23 are more than questionable, they're extinct except for a few pieces in stock. I'll have to check, but it was my understanding that those have already been pulled.

    Darren
    Your website still lists the RP23 as a shock you provide service for, hence my question.
    ****

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    man im also curious to hear the reviews. my ocd is going to kill me if i have a coil fork and an air float x rear shock lol.

    i have a creaky csu on my fox36, which i need to send back to fox for warranty, then hopefully i'll have some money to get the acs3
    2017 yeti sb6c turq x01 eagle

  71. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Your request was run by me but don't remember specifically why we were not able to bring it in for service.

    Darren
    A failing memory can certainly be a convenient thing sometimes. Like right now.
    ****

  72. #72
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    Fantastic detailed write up thanks Darren.

    I was wondering if the ASC-3 will fit a 2014 36 160mm TALAS, I know you don't support it but what's stopping me from replacing the TALAS 5 spring assembly with the ASC-3? Is the TALAS 5 assembly physically different between the 2014 and 2015 forks?

    Regards,

    Mark


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  73. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Renegade View Post
    A failing memory can certainly be a convenient thing sometimes. Like right now.
    I haven't been involved in our Technical Service department in over two years. The people involved with making these decisions brought up your case as a weekly meeting per your request. I simply supported their decision as they are the most informed with what we can, and cannot do.

    Fantastic detailed write up thanks Darren.

    I was wondering if the ASC-3 will fit a 2014 36 160mm TALAS, I know you don't support it but what's stopping me from replacing the TALAS 5 spring assembly with the ASC-3? Is the TALAS 5 assembly physically different between the 2014 and 2015 forks?
    To be honest, we don't actually know if it could be retrofitted back that far. We don't have a pre-2105 fork anywhere in house unfortunately.

    Darren

  74. #74
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    Push ASC-3 Coil Conversion kit

    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    To be honest, we don't actually know if it could be retrofitted back that far. We don't have a pre-2105 fork anywhere in house unfortunately.

    Darren


    Thanks Darren,

    I think I may try this out, if it doesn't work then I'll either keep it for when I replace my forks or sell it on.


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    Does anyone know how much weight this will will add to the fork? I am considering converting my 2018 Float RC2 170mm. What is the weight hit?

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    The weight won't be a factor once you ride it, but here are the numbers:

    ACS-3 will add 210-285 grams to a Fox 36 Float, or between 65-150 grams to a 36 TALAS.

    Darren

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    My 2018 160mm 29 boost weighed 5.2 lbs with a green spring but it doesn't matter. One ride and you'll realize it's about the best purchase ever. I've owned or ridden almost everything out there and this is the best riding fork I've ever owned. Better than the BOS on my dh, better than the ohlins it replaced. I'm questioning if I even need a dh bike after 2 days at the bike park on this. Had personal records on full blown dh trails. Unreal. Well done Darren. If you only were doing an 11-6 for the new slash...

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    Now that Fox released a 36 29er in 170mm, will the ACS-3 170mm kit work in this particular 29er chassis?

    How does one go about changing the travel once you are using this kit? Do you have to buy a complete new kit at the desire travel?

    Thanks!

  79. #79
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    I really don't understand why people would think that we would spend all of the time and money developing the Air Bump Stop if it wasn't necessary?
    How did every RC2 damper fox coil fork get away with it? I've ridden one with a non HBO damper and it works fine.

    I've got a current gen talas that has almost no air spring ramp and the HS compression adjuster keeps it from bottoming pretty well.

    Were you guys getting hard bottom outs with the current RC2 carts when you just tried a coil only? Judging by how often I have to burp my lowers on all 3 of my fox forks, I think I already have two air springs in the lowers.

    I remember the first 6 years of fox vanilla (and then 40) forks and the HS damping capabilities of those things were non-existent. Everyone ended up having to run an oversprung fork, myself included. That seemed to go away with the current damper cartridges that actually worked though.
    STRAVA: Enabling dorks everywhere to get trails shut down........ all for the sake of a race on the internet.

  80. #80
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    My 2018 160mm 29 boost weighed 5.2 lbs with a green spring but it doesn't matter. One ride and you'll realize it's about the best purchase ever. I've owned or ridden almost everything out there and this is the best riding fork I've ever owned. Better than the BOS on my dh, better than the ohlins it replaced. I'm questioning if I even need a dh bike after 2 days at the bike park on this. Had personal records on full blown dh trails. Unreal. Well done Darren. If you only were doing an 11-6 for the new slash...
    Thanks for your business!

    Now that Fox released a 36 29er in 170mm, will the ACS-3 170mm kit work in this particular 29er chassis?

    How does one go about changing the travel once you are using this kit? Do you have to buy a complete new kit at the desire travel?
    We're working on confirming the 170 29 fork and should have info shortly.

    To change travel it requires a new kit. Modern FOX/RS forks are no longer able to change travel by swapping spacers unfortunately.

    How did every RC2 damper fox coil fork get away with it? I've ridden one with a non HBO damper and it works fine.
    The majority of riders found themselves over-springing the fork and running damping settings that compromised the overall performance.

    I've got a current gen talas that has almost no air spring ramp and the HS compression adjuster keeps it from bottoming pretty well.
    Unless you modified the air spring, it's actually quite progressive.

    Were you guys getting hard bottom outs with the current RC2 carts when you just tried a coil only? Judging by how often I have to burp my lowers on all 3 of my fox forks, I think I already have two air springs in the lowers.
    Yes. With just a coil spring the fork is too linear to have both good bump sensitivity and big hit control. Additionally, you won't find a single user of our ACS3 kit that isn't running pressure in their ABS unit.

    I remember the first 6 years of fox vanilla (and then 40) forks and the HS damping capabilities of those things were non-existent. Everyone ended up having to run an oversprung fork, myself included. That seemed to go away with the current damper cartridges that actually worked though.
    Using this logic you're saying that frame manufacturers could simplify their frame designs once the rear shock technology improves? You make it sound like with proper compression damping circuits that there wouldn't be a need for rising rate frames and complex linkages.

    Darren

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    Where are you seeing the 170 option for 29?


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  82. #82
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    Figure I'd add my review. I picked one up last week for my Nomad3 to match the DHX2 on the rear. I installed it in my brand new 18 Fox36RC2 170mm. I had about a month of riding on this fork and I had the MRP cartridge installed in it (for sale by the way). I previously had the 16 version of this version fork with the MRP cartridge and Neg air spring thingee (also for sale). I've also had VAN36's, 66 coil, and Totem coil in the past.

    I watched the online vids for the install and it probably took me about 45 minutes w/o changing the seals. Pretty easy overall. No crazy tools needed, but it's a good idea to have some bath oil on hand. I went to their site to get the damper recommendations and pumped up the bottom out chamber to 20 psi, which was about 2 or 3 pumps. Right out of the garage I noticed some minor things fixed. There was zero loss of travel due to the neg spring. I've noticed every since the Pike came out pretty much every fork has the neg spring push the travel in. Even the 18 out of the box had a 4mm of travel sucked in. Another thing fixed was when I wheelied I'd get a small top out clunk feeling. I have had that on all of my Fox Floats and it's worse on my wife's Pike. The fork is completely silent and solid feeling now.

    My first ride involved a semi-tech climb and then a Blue trail on a DH hill w/single ply tires. Then 2 full days of DH/Jump Trail at 2 different parks w/DH tires. Then a day of "Enduro Style" riding w/single ply tires that involved a bunch of laps of 30 minute climbs 5 to 10 min descents. Finally a fork that matches my rear suspension! I found myself carrying more and more speed through the gnar. To point where I was concerned about my DH tires. Super plush over the small stuff, better midstroke support, and better bottom out support. Pretty much all I could ask for. Very happy with this fork right now.

    The 16 and 18 Float36's are a great fork out of the box but I found myself constantly messing with it to try and match the rear. PSI, damper settings, token settings, MRP thingees, etc. give you a lot of options for tuning but overall I could not get it to where I wanted it to. I'm stoked to put the ACS-3 through its paces.

    Comparing it to previous coil forks I can say that the bottom out air thing is absolutely necessary. I've always loved the feel of coil shocks but I had to run a heavier spring on older forks to help control the bottom out. It'd feel fine for most of my riding but when you really pushed through the travel it would give way and you'd get a harsh clank. Running the heavier spring compromised how good the fork felt overall and I'd still clank it. I ended up going with 180 boat anchor forks to help with that. I had some sketchy moments this weekend at the DH park but not once did I clank it or even bottom it out. The ring showed about 5 to 10mm of travel left at the end of each day.
    Come stay and play at da Kingdom Trails! - http://www.homeaway.com/vacation-rental/p3486813

  83. #83
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysrubi View Post
    Where are you seeing the 170 option for 29?


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    Fox 36 29er 170mm

    I got an email last Friday afternoon from World Wide Cyclery advertising the new orange 36 forks. I saw the 170 29 option and figured it was a typo. Called and confirmed that it was indeed correct...I had it ordered before I hung up the phone!

    They also had them listed on eBay but I believe they were sold out before the weekend was over. The guy from WWC said they were lucky enough to get some of these earlier than most.

  84. #84
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    Fox 36 29er 170mm

    I got an email last Friday afternoon from World Wide Cyclery advertising the new orange 36 forks. I saw the 170 29 option and figured it was a typo. Called and confirmed that it was indeed correct...I had it ordered before I hung up the phone!

    They also had them listed on eBay but I believe they were sold out before the weekend was over. The guy from WWC said they were lucky enough to get some of these earlier than most.
    Thanks


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  85. #85
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    @Push: How much longer until you get the 2 heavier spring options in stock for us big boys?

    Reading all these reviews...patience is hard to come by!

  86. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by woodyak View Post
    Figure I'd add my review. I picked one up last week for my Nomad3 to match the DHX2 on the rear. I installed it in my brand new 18 Fox36RC2 170mm. I had about a month of riding on this fork and I had the MRP cartridge installed in it (for sale by the way). I previously had the 16 version of this version fork with the MRP cartridge and Neg air spring thingee (also for sale). I've also had VAN36's, 66 coil, and Totem coil in the past.

    I watched the online vids for the install and it probably took me about 45 minutes w/o changing the seals. Pretty easy overall. No crazy tools needed, but it's a good idea to have some bath oil on hand. I went to their site to get the damper recommendations and pumped up the bottom out chamber to 20 psi, which was about 2 or 3 pumps. Right out of the garage I noticed some minor things fixed. There was zero loss of travel due to the neg spring. I've noticed every since the Pike came out pretty much every fork has the neg spring push the travel in. Even the 18 out of the box had a 4mm of travel sucked in. Another thing fixed was when I wheelied I'd get a small top out clunk feeling. I have had that on all of my Fox Floats and it's worse on my wife's Pike. The fork is completely silent and solid feeling now.

    My first ride involved a semi-tech climb and then a Blue trail on a DH hill w/single ply tires. Then 2 full days of DH/Jump Trail at 2 different parks w/DH tires. Then a day of "Enduro Style" riding w/single ply tires that involved a bunch of laps of 30 minute climbs 5 to 10 min descents. Finally a fork that matches my rear suspension! I found myself carrying more and more speed through the gnar. To point where I was concerned about my DH tires. Super plush over the small stuff, better midstroke support, and better bottom out support. Pretty much all I could ask for. Very happy with this fork right now.

    The 16 and 18 Float36's are a great fork out of the box but I found myself constantly messing with it to try and match the rear. PSI, damper settings, token settings, MRP thingees, etc. give you a lot of options for tuning but overall I could not get it to where I wanted it to. I'm stoked to put the ACS-3 through its paces.

    Comparing it to previous coil forks I can say that the bottom out air thing is absolutely necessary. I've always loved the feel of coil shocks but I had to run a heavier spring on older forks to help control the bottom out. It'd feel fine for most of my riding but when you really pushed through the travel it would give way and you'd get a harsh clank. Running the heavier spring compromised how good the fork felt overall and I'd still clank it. I ended up going with 180 boat anchor forks to help with that. I had some sketchy moments this weekend at the DH park but not once did I clank it or even bottom it out. The ring showed about 5 to 10mm of travel left at the end of each day.
    Great review.

    I've been riding ACS3 for awhile now. At 165 lbs without gear on the blue spring, I still haven't maxed travel using 15 psi in the bump stop. I know that last bit of "Oh sh!t" travel is there if I need it but I've yet to find bottom. This kit, combined with the PUSH damper tune, is pure gold.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  87. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by titusquasi View Post
    The guy from WWC said they were lucky enough to get some of these earlier than most.
    any idea if the orange fork as well as the travel options will be available elsewhere in the near future?

  88. #88
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel View Post
    Great review.

    I've been riding ACS3 for awhile now. At 165 lbs without gear on the blue spring, I still haven't maxed travel using 15 psi in the bump stop. I know that last bit of "Oh sh!t" travel is there if I need it but I've yet to find bottom. This kit, combined with the PUSH damper tune, is pure gold.
    im around the same weight without riding gear, what made you go with the blue spring instead of the green? i asked PUSH and they recommended a green spring for some1 around 180-185(with riding gear)
    2017 yeti sb6c turq x01 eagle

  89. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by useport80 View Post
    im around the same weight without riding gear, what made you go with the blue spring instead of the green? i asked PUSH and they recommended a green spring for some1 around 180-185(with riding gear)
    with gear, i'm still a good 15 pounds less than you. I went with what they recommended, then fiddled with the air stop to get it where i want. Factory was 25 psi. I'm happy with 15 on a digital gauge. Small changes seem to make big differences with the air stop.
    “Life is like riding a bicycle. To keep your balance, you must keep moving.”

    ― Albert Einstein

  90. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by mfa81 View Post
    any idea if the orange fork as well as the travel options will be available elsewhere in the near future?
    I don't know. WWC said they had litterally just received a few into inventory and they were aware that the 170 29er couldn't be found elsewhere at that moment. I'm personally tired of black bikes so with a blue Wreckoning I can happily rock the orange fork!

  91. #91
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    A question for you guys running the PUSH coil kit, do you still get air pressure build-up in the lowers? I understand doing shuttle runs with big elevation changes may still cause this, but I don't.

  92. #92
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    woodyak
    Figure I'd add my review. I picked one up last week for my Nomad3 to match the DHX2 on the rear. I installed it in my brand new 18 Fox36RC2 170mm. I had about a month of riding on this fork and I had the MRP cartridge installed in it (for sale by the way). I previously had the 16 version of this version fork with the MRP cartridge and Neg air spring thingee (also for sale). I've also had VAN36's, 66 coil, and Totem coil in the past.

    I watched the online vids for the install and it probably took me about 45 minutes w/o changing the seals. Pretty easy overall. No crazy tools needed, but it's a good idea to have some bath oil on hand. I went to their site to get the damper recommendations and pumped up the bottom out chamber to 20 psi, which was about 2 or 3 pumps. Right out of the garage I noticed some minor things fixed. There was zero loss of travel due to the neg spring. I've noticed every since the Pike came out pretty much every fork has the neg spring push the travel in. Even the 18 out of the box had a 4mm of travel sucked in. Another thing fixed was when I wheelied I'd get a small top out clunk feeling. I have had that on all of my Fox Floats and it's worse on my wife's Pike. The fork is completely silent and solid feeling now.

    My first ride involved a semi-tech climb and then a Blue trail on a DH hill w/single ply tires. Then 2 full days of DH/Jump Trail at 2 different parks w/DH tires. Then a day of "Enduro Style" riding w/single ply tires that involved a bunch of laps of 30 minute climbs 5 to 10 min descents. Finally a fork that matches my rear suspension! I found myself carrying more and more speed through the gnar. To point where I was concerned about my DH tires. Super plush over the small stuff, better midstroke support, and better bottom out support. Pretty much all I could ask for. Very happy with this fork right now.

    The 16 and 18 Float36's are a great fork out of the box but I found myself constantly messing with it to try and match the rear. PSI, damper settings, token settings, MRP thingees, etc. give you a lot of options for tuning but overall I could not get it to where I wanted it to. I'm stoked to put the ACS-3 through its paces.

    Comparing it to previous coil forks I can say that the bottom out air thing is absolutely necessary. I've always loved the feel of coil shocks but I had to run a heavier spring on older forks to help control the bottom out. It'd feel fine for most of my riding but when you really pushed through the travel it would give way and you'd get a harsh clank. Running the heavier spring compromised how good the fork felt overall and I'd still clank it. I ended up going with 180 boat anchor forks to help with that. I had some sketchy moments this weekend at the DH park but not once did I clank it or even bottom it out. The ring showed about 5 to 10mm of travel left at the end of each day.

  93. #93
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    titusquasi
    @Push: How much longer until you get the 2 heavier spring options in stock for us big boys?

    Reading all these reviews...patience is hard to come by!
    Unfortunately it won't be until close to the end of the year. That being said, we are getting feedback that are Black and Grey springs can be set to higher rider weights. We seem to be able to get up to 245-250lbs with the Grey.

    slim2none
    A question for you guys running the PUSH coil kit, do you still get air pressure build-up in the lowers? I understand doing shuttle runs with big elevation changes may still cause this, but I don't.
    No, the issue of riders "burping" their lowers is mainly from the air spring side due to the low volume in that leg. Our ACS3 kit resolves that problem.

    Darren

  94. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    Unfortunately it won't be until close to the end of the year. That being said, we are getting feedback that are Black and Grey springs can be set to higher rider weights. We seem to be able to get up to 245-250lbs with the Grey.

    No, the issue of riders "burping" their lowers is mainly from the air spring side due to the low volume in that leg. Our ACS3 kit resolves that problem.

    Darren
    Any news on fitment for a 36 170 for a 29er?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  95. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jaysrubi View Post
    Any news on fitment for a 36 170 for a 29er?


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    The kit does work in the new 29 170mm fork.

    Darren

  96. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by PUSHIND View Post
    The kit does work in the new 29 170mm fork.

    Darren
    Thank you


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

  97. #97
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    Sorry if this has already been asked (tried to find an answer on here), but I have a Grip damper 36. It's my understanding that this will work just as well? Have you tested it and is it worth it despite lacking the HSC and LSC adjustments?

  98. #98
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    Quote Originally Posted by Klainmeister View Post
    Sorry if this has already been asked (tried to find an answer on here), but I have a Grip damper 36. It's my understanding that this will work just as well? Have you tested it and is it worth it despite lacking the HSC and LSC adjustments?
    It absolutely will work with Grip Damper model 36 forks and performs really well.

    Darren

  99. #99
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    Any predictions on use of the ACS-3 combined with the 2018 floatx2 shock? Anyone else planning to run this setup?

  100. #100
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    I am building up a Hightower LT with X2 on the rear and Pike 160. Waiting on the release of the ACS-3 for my fork. Hoping this is a great combo.

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