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  1. #1
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    Is it possible to make RC2 style damper for Fox 32mm forks

    Is it possible to make RC2 style damper for Fox 32mm forks?

    ... Or better yet, does one exist?
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  2. #2
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    nay. The fatty end where the bladder goes would not fit in a 32mm fork.

    The RLC open bath damper in the 2007 to 2009 van 32 was pretty decent. The shims in it could be accessed and tuned to your liking. I would go that route if trying to make a super duper 32mm fork

  3. #3
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    Bro, I know what you want. It's sad how there are very little "short travel" (under 160mm) forks with decent dampers.

    I would think your best bet would be to see with Push and see what their tune can do for you.

    I would like something for my Revelation. Push comes close, but they don't touch the compression damper.

    There is also CRConception on the other side of the pond.

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    Warp,
    I've been thinking about that alot. Right now I have a van 36 rc2 lowered to 140mm, and set up with a stiffer shimstack and a piston that has been milled to actually sit flat. I would love to run a revelation to drop some weight on the trail bike.

    Personally, I think we could get the avalanche damper to work. Given how modular rockshox components are, I suspect you could use the damper shaft for the lyrik with the fittings kit for the 32mm boxxer, and you might just be able to get it to work. A shimmed open bath revelation would be the bees knees.

    Worth a shot, or a call to Craig to see what he thinks.

  5. #5
    "El Whatever"
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
    Worth a shot, or a call to Craig to see what he thinks.
    Maybe I have not asked the right questions, but last time he said he had no plans to fit anything to a Revelation.

    The Boxxer 32mm fittings into the Lyrik damper idea never crossed my mind. I asked about the Boxxer one being shortened to Revelation travel.

    If you find out something, I'm all ears.

    Seriously, the dampers in 32mm forks leave a lot to be desired.
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  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    Seriously, the dampers in 32mm forks leave a lot to be desired.
    Manitou's ABS+ is about as good as it gets. I would love to find a way to use it in a different fork that uses a better chassis.

  7. #7
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    I've had a number of rockshox forks (pike, argyle, lyrik, tora, boxxer) and I don't see why with minimal effort, running the lyrik damper with the old style single spring boxxer topcap wouldn't work out. I know you (warp) have been on a crusade to get some decent dampening in a ligher weight fork, and I agree that it shouldn't be such a struggle. Ask if the boxxer fittings will go on the lyrik shaft (they should, everything is modular in his setup) set the oil level at a safe starting level like 60mm from the top, and shred on. The potential is certainly there.

    After having and tuning a 55rc5 ti, I've been wondering if the rc3 evo damper could be retrofit in the 44 chassis. If where the rebound needle adjust screws into the topcap has the same pitch, it could work. Every marzocchi I've had has the same size foot nuts (albeit, I've only had 66,888,55), so there is a chance that could work too. Only downside of the 44 is that it is sprung pretty soft. If you could access the evo stack and set up a more aggressive face shim, you could get away with the slightly under sprung/slightly over damped thing.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Manitou's ABS+ is about as good as it gets. I would love to find a way to use it in a different fork that uses a better chassis.
    I have thought about this as well. Do the ABS+ dampers come in different lengths? What is the OD of the damper bottom end. What is the thread on the top of the damper? Are the manitou forks 32mm or still 30mm?

    To use an ABS+ damper in the RS 32mm chassis would probably require a new top cap and different diameter piston. The damper rod could probably be used unless its too long that the rebound damper will impact it on full compression.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    I have thought about this as well. Do the ABS+ dampers come in different lengths? What is the OD of the damper bottom end. What is the thread on the top of the damper? Are the manitou forks 32mm or still 30mm?

    To use an ABS+ damper in the RS 32mm chassis would probably require a new top cap and different diameter piston. The damper rod could probably be used unless its too long that the rebound damper will impact it on full compression.
    All the current Manitou forks are 32mm other the the R7 which is still 30mm. Im not sure about different lengths. I know that there is a few different piston diameters to accommodate the different ID's of the steel and aluminum stanchions. Not sure how they compare to the the ID's of RS forks though.

    I think someone started a thread about doing it a while back and I thought the conclusion was that the piston diameter was fairly close, but the thread pitch was different between the two forks.


    A different random thought: I read somewhere that someone found a way to put a TPC+ damper in a boxxer(and said it was amazing). I believe all 2006+ Manitou forks can be upraded to the new ABS+ damper. Does this mean that you could put an older TPC+ damper from a Nixon in one of the new Minutes? That would be a sweet fork with no real modifications.

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    All the current Manitou forks are 32mm other the the R7 which is still 30mm. Im not sure about different lengths. I know that there is a few different piston diameters to accommodate the different ID's of the steel and aluminum stanchions. Not sure how they compare to the the ID's of RS forks though.

    I think someone started a thread about doing it a while back and I thought the conclusion was that the piston diameter was fairly close, but the thread pitch was different between the two forks.


    A different random thought: I read somewhere that someone found a way to put a TPC+ damper in a boxxer(and said it was amazing). I believe all 2006+ Manitou forks can be upraded to the new ABS+ damper. Does this mean that you could put an older TPC+ damper from a Nixon in one of the new Minutes? That would be a sweet fork with no real modifications.
    ABS+ in RS = No Go.

    will a manitou abs+ damper fit in a rock shox reba?


    Tried with the TPC+ Cartridge of the Nixon in the Revelation. No Go. Threads are different, the way the damper attaches to the bottom of the lowers on the damper side is different (left hand thread) and the cartridge was a bit too long (at least with the 160mm Nxon cart.).

    And Manitou is letting us down with the 160mm fork. Their 140mm models are just too short.

    We''ll have to wait for the X-Fusion Slant to come out... and then they will not offer initially the HLR model.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post

    We''ll have to wait for the X-Fusion Slant to come out... and then they will not offer initially the HLR model.
    Do you think, later they will?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by randan View Post
    Do you think, later they will?
    If people want stellar damping and ask for it, I'm sure they will offer the option.

    If people keep pushing for it to weight 1.8kg and want a lockout because it's oh so important in order to ride a 160mm fork on pavement, then we can forget about it.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
    I've had a number of rockshox forks (pike, argyle, lyrik, tora, boxxer) and I don't see why with minimal effort, running the lyrik damper with the old style single spring boxxer topcap wouldn't work out. I know you (warp) have been on a crusade to get some decent dampening in a ligher weight fork, and I agree that it shouldn't be such a struggle. Ask if the boxxer fittings will go on the lyrik shaft (they should, everything is modular in his setup) set the oil level at a safe starting level like 60mm from the top, and shred on. The potential is certainly there.
    Yep, at full compression a Lyrik and a Revelation have an A2C of 5mm, so theoretically, you could end up with a 145mm fork as opposed to a 150mm. Nothing that makes me lose sleep.

    I see Craig there are several options for Boxxer 32mm topcaps. I'll ask again. I lose nothing with asking.

    I'd love to know which version of the Boxxer is compatible with the smaller 32mm fork. In that case, I'd just order the cart and experiment myself.

    Edit... E-mail sent to Avalanche. Let's see if that's an option.
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  14. #14
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    Well, Craig replied to my e-mail.

    None of the Avy stuff can fit a Revelation.
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    Yep; it seems that people aren't realizing how 4-5" bike with hi/lo compression and a broader rebound range would be perfect everywhere.

    That and air spacers, like the new fox float spacers for progressive adjust. That's something you should be able to have for forks as well.

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  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grizzy View Post
    Yep; it seems that people aren't realizing how 4-5" bike with hi/lo compression and a broader rebound range would be perfect everywhere.
    The problem is that we are in the minority. If there was a big enough demand for a 100-130mm fork with an external high and low speed compression, someone would make it. The average rider knows very little about there suspension and would rather have easy to use and understand adjustments so they mess anything up.

    As I said above, If you want the best option available at the moment, buy a Manitou fork. The damper is a LSC port orifice damper with a user tunable HSC shim stack. Also has a shimmed HSR circuit in that is user tunable as well. At the moment, its the best option available for a 140mm or less fork.

  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    As I said above, If you want the best option available at the moment, buy a Manitou fork. The damper is a LSC port orifice damper with a user tunable HSC shim stack. Also has a shimmed HSR circuit in that is user tunable as well. At the moment, its the best option available for a 140mm or less fork.
    Fox forks have all of those things.

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matty F View Post
    Fox forks have all of those things.
    For me and my application, unfortunately, their 150mm forks are too short. 10mm less compared to Rock Shox and the stiffness is not there.

    Floats are also notorious for not getting full travel and the TALAS is rather hit or miss.

    I had hopes in their 34 chassis... which they released only in tapered. My fault for owning a 1 1/8" - 2010 frame that can't take tapered.

    Honestly, the only fork on the market that ticks (almost) all of my boxes is a BOS Deville. However, I've heard horror stories about their service. You could be left waiting weeks before getting a replacement part.
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  19. #19
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    Warp,
    I'm sure you've already considered this, but a solo air lyrik lowered to 140 and stuffed with the avy cart or the new 2012 mico DH cart is probably your best option. Probably weighs more than you want, but f it, I'll take suspension that works how I want with a little extra weight (says the guy who just modded his van 36 to 140mm)

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
    Warp,
    I'm sure you've already considered this, but a solo air lyrik lowered to 140 and stuffed with the avy cart or the new 2012 mico DH cart is probably your best option. Probably weighs more than you want, but f it, I'll take suspension that works how I want with a little extra weight (says the guy who just modded his van 36 to 140mm)
    Yeah, sounds like a good option. Though, not cheap. It's whatever the cost of the Lyrik plus another +450 for the Avy cart. It may be well worthy though. You do the math. I'll keep an eye on ebay, though.

    Another option is a lowered Vengeance. I'm not too concerned about amount of travel if the quality of it is there.

    Now... how did you lower your Van? That really got my attention.
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  21. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    ...My fault for owning a 1 1/8" - 2010 frame that can't take tapered...
    Have you got a 44mm headtube? Fit an external cup 1 1/2 lower and you good to go with tapered.

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by TigWorld View Post
    Have you got a 44mm headtube? Fit an external cup 1 1/2 lower and you good to go with tapered.
    Nope, obsolete 1 1/8" (33mm??) steerer...
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  23. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by 300hp View Post
    I'll take suspension that works how I want with a little extra weight (says the guy who just modded his van 36 to 140mm)
    Did you just cut the spring or make a new shaft?

    Been wondering if the plunger shaft assembly on the 32mm has the same footnut dimension as 36..Haven't been able to find a diagram but I remember my 32mm was similar looking. .was an 07' though

    Still have the green 60 lb/in, rate would be perfect wrapped up in the 36 @ 140mm
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Is it possible to make RC2 style damper for Fox 32mm forks-picture-58.png  

    Is it possible to make RC2 style damper for Fox 32mm forks-picture-59.png  

    ...

  24. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Matty F View Post
    Fox forks have all of those things.
    they dont have dyno charts available to the public. Or dished pistons so you can range from very stiff lock out to completely linear damping or anything in-between. Or a damper that takes less then 15 minutes to change stacks.

  25. #25
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    Well,
    I've tried it both ways.

    The spring from a 2007-2009 van 32 measures 298mm long. The spring from a van 36 measures 310mm long.

    To lower the fork, I went to my neighborhood skate shop. I grabbed a set of urethane skate truck bushings for a couple bucks. They come in all different sizes, I measured a couple until I found one that was 15mm. I cut a slice in it with a razor blade, and put it between teh spring perch and negative spring on the plunger shaft. The urethane is really hard, but still pliable, and wont shatter or do anything else stupid like PVC, so I think its ideal for this kind of thing.

    If you put a 15mm spacer on the plunger shaft, a van 32 spring will fit perfectly length wise to run your van at 145mm. There are two issues that come up. The spring is a tight fit on the lower plunger guide. Not impossibly tight, but tight. Springs vary slightly, so you may not have an issue.

    2. The 32mm spring needs to be in a road bike tube to keep it quiet and from clanging off the stanchions. Quiets down nicely with this method.

    Basically, if you have a van 32 spring around, give it a try. As long as the spring fits on the spring perch, I really can't see you doing any harm. I ran one for a while.

    Now, I know CUTTING SPRINGS IS T3H IMPOSSIBLEZ, but I've got a couple cut ones, and no issues to speak of.

    I went to a local motorcross suspension/engine guy about 20 minutes from me. I was pretty worried about cutting a spring, because of the internet. It still may end up being right. He cuts springs all the time for junior racers to bring the front end of the bike down to a good ride height. He heated the spring, cut it 15mm, tapped it down, and finished up on the grinder. It took, maybe 5 minutes. The fox technical drawings spec. 270 degrees of flat surface on the top of a spring. My modded spring has, maybe, 250 degrees of flat surface.

    It really was easy. While I was at it, we took the rc2 cart apart, and found the piston was concave from an internal clearance issue. This meant the shims were not sealing on the piston, and the rc2 was essentially at free bleed all the time. We blocked the piston flat again, added a 16x1.5 shim to the outside of the stack to give the compression some effect, and put it back together with redline oil. Now, the adjustments actually do something, for the first time in two years of dicking with this fork.

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