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Thread: Pike 2014

  1. #101
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    Have a question

    Just received my 26" 160mm Pike. I was testing out the the settings; open, peddle, locked. In the locked position the fork did not lockout completely like X-Fusion or a Fox. It did compress slightly and with the feel of very heavy damping. Those that are running the Pike is this the same for you?

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  2. #102
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    Pike 2014

    Yeah. I'm pretty sure they said that's how it's supposed to work. If you want go check the pinkbike coverage of it. Basically it doesn't lock out it just gets really firm.

  3. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by jjkitt View Post
    Just received my 26" 160mm Pike. I was testing out the the settings; open, peddle, locked. In the locked position the fork did not lockout completely like X-Fusion or a Fox. It did compress slightly and with the feel of very heavy damping. Those that are running the Pike is this the same for you?

    Cheers,
    On the bike the compression adjuster has a pretty big effect, it doesn't turn it into a rigid fork, but it gives enough compression damping to make it resist bobbing if you are pedaling up a hill or something. Where it really shines is in rough chunky terrain where you don't want it blowing through travel. A few clicks of the adjuster keep it from diving and it still feels great, not harsh. It's exactly what low speed compression is supposed to be IMO.
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  4. #104
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    So, found the fork entirely too linear out of the box on my initial test ride. It felt really unstable, but there was pretty much no compression damping. The fork is a 150mm 29er non-adjust travel fork.

    Initial ride setup was 60 psi to 25% sag. Rebound was 9 clicks in from full open, or roughly 50% LSR damping.

    I opened up the air chamber and noticed the fork already has one of those bottomless tokens in. I stuck in the other two for a total of 3...
    Now the fork is at 40 psi, 27.5% sag, and it ramps up quite nicely! Prob will need to dial out 2 or 3 clicks on the rebound for the reduced PSI and to get the small chatter compliance I'm looking for. Test ride to come, once the rain stops.

    I like to set the compression damping to non-existent for climbs so the front wheel can follow the ground w/o any of my weight on the bar. On the downs, turn to the middle of the RCT3 setting to get some mid-stroke support. This was how I rode the Fox 34 to pretty good effect.
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  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem View Post
    On the bike the compression adjuster has a pretty big effect, it doesn't turn it into a rigid fork, but it gives enough compression damping to make it resist bobbing if you are pedaling up a hill or something. Where it really shines is in rough chunky terrain where you don't want it blowing through travel. A few clicks of the adjuster keep it from diving and it still feels great, not harsh. It's exactly what low speed compression is supposed to be IMO.
    Well...is this where everyone gets confused? I have come to understand that fork manufacturers refer to low speed compression as being the first 1/3 of the forks travel. This will be forces that do not force the fork to travel more than 1/3 of the way thru its travel. Exactly...pedal induced bobbing etc...these get reduced by the compression settings and possibly eliminated if LSC is maximised or the fork is locked out.

    when we start talking about rough chunky (high speed?) terrain i want my fork open so that its active as possible and if there is a risk of it blowing through its travel - then i should be playing with the high speed compression...which is the final 1/3 of its travel. If I enter the final 1/3 of my forks travel I want to be able to determine how i am going to use that travel...because that affects my immediate future (health).

    When i am riding high speed rough chunky terrain...i picture myself riding in the middle third of the stroke and pushing into my HSC settings. In my perect world..LSC would be irrelevant once i get going on a DH.

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  6. #106
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    Pike 2014

    Yeah that's not how it's supposed to work. Low speed compression is dampening for low speed events like going off a drop or braking or riding a berm. High speed is stuff like going up a drop (imagine going up a curb at 20mph). If you are riding down hills only using the middle part of your travel your fork is packing down and you have too much rebound dampening.

    Most forks don't have high speed compression adjustment. Downhill forks and forks like the fox 36 do but the pike doesn't, at least not via a knob.

  7. #107
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    Pike 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by BushPilot View Post
    Got a 160mm on the way for my SJ EVO 26.

    Bikepartsexpress / Sage Cycles have them for under $900.
    $804 at Tryon Bike.
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  8. #108
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    Pike 2014

    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    So, found the fork entirely too linear out of the box on my initial test ride. It felt really unstable, but there was pretty much no compression damping. The fork is a 150mm 29er non-adjust travel fork.

    I opened up the air chamber and noticed the fork already has one of those bottomless tokens in. I stuck in the other two for a total of 3...

    Honestly I'm glad they made it pretty linear and then provided the bottomless tokens to allow us to tune it. It just gives us more options. I have about 20 hours on the fork right now and am still playing around with it. I've already shaved around 30 seconds off one of the 5 minute trails I ride with this fork. Crazy as that sounds. I'm thinking about putting another token in when I do the 50 hour service. Good to know it already has one in there.

  9. #109
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post

    I like to set the compression damping to non-existent for climbs so the front wheel can follow the ground w/o any of my weight on the bar. On the downs, turn to the middle of the RCT3 setting to get some mid-stroke support. This was how I rode the Fox 34 to pretty good effect.
    That's what I'm doing too, working great.
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  10. #110
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Well...is this where everyone gets confused? I have come to understand that fork manufacturers refer to low speed compression as being the first 1/3 of the forks travel. This will be forces that do not force the fork to travel more than 1/3 of the way thru its travel. Exactly...pedal induced bobbing etc...these get reduced by the compression settings and possibly eliminated if LSC is maximised or the fork is locked out.

    when we start talking about rough chunky (high speed?) terrain i want my fork open so that its active as possible and if there is a risk of it blowing through its travel - then i should be playing with the high speed compression...which is the final 1/3 of its travel. If I enter the final 1/3 of my forks travel I want to be able to determine how i am going to use that travel...because that affects my immediate future (health).

    When i am riding high speed rough chunky terrain...i picture myself riding in the middle third of the stroke and pushing into my HSC settings. In my perect world..LSC would be irrelevant once i get going on a DH.

    cheers.
    No, low speed events are once which compress the shaft at a low-speed. A drop is a relatively low-speed event, because you only drop at 9.8m/s^2, yet hitting 4" bump at 30mph requires the fork to move MUCH faster than that low-speed event. You can't have the same damping circuit doing both events though, because damping increases as a square of velocity, which means the fork would simply hydro-lock and not compress when you hit that 4" bump if all you had was the low-speed compression circuit. High speed damping has to open up, and the faster the fork moves, the more it has to open. So going back to low speed, it might seem that it exists mostly in the beginning stroke, but that's not really true as you experience g-outs, do drops and jumps, and so on. No matter where the fork is in it's travel, it has to be able to do both of these things, such as landing a drop AND absorbing a root during the landing.

    What noticed on my avalanche stuff with fairly high-end low speed and high speed circuits was that you needed a certain amount of low-speed compression dialed into the fork/shock for the high speed circuit to work correctly. If you tried to leave it "open", it worked well enough at low speed, but at higher speeds it wasn't allowing that high-speed circuit to open up enough, so it was kind of sending oil to both circuits and not effectively decreasing the high speed damping. Upping the low speed compression damping helped it resist g-outs, diving, pedal better, and most importantly to me it seemed to help the high speed circuit open up much better when the fork reacted to a high-speed event. Sometimes this stuff seemed "overdamped" compared to an old marzocchi fork, but you take the avalanche stuff through crazy south-mountain or goat-camp super-chunk and it just leveled stuff, the faster you went, the better it got. That's what I notice from the pike.

    Compared to some of the marzocchi stuff I've had over the years, the older HSCV stuff was kind of "tuned" for moderate speed riding with little chassi control, at low speed it wallowed and moved around a bunch, at moderate speeds it wasn't bad, but try to push it to high speeds and it just gets overwhelmed, spiking, etc. Those dampers were crude and any increased compression (closing off holes) made them feel pretty bad. The RC3 I got much later was also terrible, it had a spring on top of a check-valve, kind of a poor-mans shim-stack type damper, in some ways worse than the older HSCV which at least had crude shims on it. Increasing the compression damping here just made it feel worse...at everything. Newer marzocchi RC3 Evo 2c Type R or whatever they are calling it is actually decent and nearly a carbon copy of some of the avalanche stuff.

    It's really not possible to have true adjustable high speed compression, you have to re-arrange the shim-stack. You could theoretically have a system that pre-loads the shim-stack and adjust the preload on it, but that's not the same thing as having different size or more/less shims on there either, not to mention the low speed compression blow-offs and associated springs, piston size, etc. This is usually tuned fairly well from the factory though if it's a decent damper. If it's a proper compression damper, you can increase the low speed compression without ruining the high speed ride, which seems to be what we have here with the pike. It's not like some of the products where putting in compression damping affected both the high and low speed circuits and caused the fork to spike like crazy as you tried to slow it down a bit. That's unfortunately been the "standard" for most mountain bike stuff for a long time, but really it's simply ill-performing dampers from companies too lazy to adapt proven and available technology.

    I'm no suspension expert, but going with what I know about damping so far, you'd want even less high-speed compression damping and more low-speed the faster you go in chunkier terrain. Not doing this will result in spiking due to the high speed impacts being too fast for the high-speed damper (not able to open enough for the faster impacts), and the fork will bottom due to the bigger low-speed impacts (rolling off rocks, possibly combined with high speed impacts, landing jumps, etc).
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  11. #111
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    Well...is this where everyone gets confused? I have come to understand that fork manufacturers refer to low speed compression as being the first 1/3 of the forks travel. This will be forces that do not force the fork to travel more than 1/3 of the way thru its travel. Exactly...pedal induced bobbing etc...these get reduced by the compression settings and possibly eliminated if LSC is maximised or the fork is locked out.

    when we start talking about rough chunky (high speed?) terrain i want my fork open so that its active as possible and if there is a risk of it blowing through its travel - then i should be playing with the high speed compression...which is the final 1/3 of its travel. If I enter the final 1/3 of my forks travel I want to be able to determine how i am going to use that travel...because that affects my immediate future (health).

    When i am riding high speed rough chunky terrain...i picture myself riding in the middle third of the stroke and pushing into my HSC settings. In my perect world..LSC would be irrelevant once i get going on a DH.

    cheers.
    I'm getting the feeling you're confusing position sensitivity to shaft speed sensitivity.
    Think about this: 30mph and hitting washboard...I don't care how smooth those rolls are, the damper shaft speeds will be moving fast. You'll only use 1/3 to 1/2 of your full travel (if your HSC and HSR are set correctly). Now, same 30 mph and you take your bike into a 40ft diameter berm...that damper shaft speed will be moving pretty slow as compared to the washboard. BUT, if your LSC and LSR is set correctly, it's likely you'll be in the last 1/2 or 1/3 of your travel as you pull maybe...1.5 or 2 G's in that turn...?

    So, to dissect Jayem's response a bit...
    On a drop...say 4ft...and ONLY w/ respect to compression, that would be a fast moving damper shaft speed => HSC.
    On the in-run of a ramp (or you can also think of G-outs here) and only w/ respect to compression, that shaft will be moving pretty slow in comparison to the impulse from landing a drop => LSC.

    Now, w/ respect to rebound ONLY on the same two events above...
    Chances are, when you roll off the drop, you're rolling off the edge of a flat area, so your fork will only extend from its sag point to full extension. The stored energy from only compressing the spring somewhere between 25 and 35% is relatively low, resulting in low shaft speed...=> LSR.
    But, when you load up a bike off the lip of an air, chances are, you're WAY deep in the spring's stroke. The release energy from that spring will be pretty high, making the shaft movement fast...=> HSR.

    Edit: actually, what you described sounds more like a description of rebound...
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  12. #112
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    Those of you who've played around with the bottomless tokens: think they'd work in some of the older Solo Air forks? I've got a Totem Solo Air on my big bike that even with lots of tweaking, I still have a hard time getting it to feel great on small and slow stuff while ALSO feeling great on big and fast stuff. Thinking those, or something like them, would do the trick. Like shimming the air can on HV can rear shocks, yeah? It's my only real complaint with the fork. The bike sees a mix of local trail riding, as well as resort time. The local trails have lots of slow speed trialsy and techy things interspersed with faster bigger hits.

    Let me run lower pressure to get a bit more small bump compliance, yet still be able to handle larger hits, while using the compression circuits to keep it from being divy and wallowy?

    Pike content: Ordered up a 26" non-adjust 150mm model... It's going to replace the lowered Lyrik Solo Air on my TRc. Lyrik will go back ont he TransAM it came from, and the aging Revelation Dual Air gets sold to help pay for things!
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  13. #113
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover View Post
    Those of you who've played around with the bottomless tokens: think they'd work in some of the older Solo Air forks? I've got a Totem Solo Air on my big bike that even with lots of tweaking, I still have a hard time getting it to feel great on small and slow stuff while ALSO feeling great on big and fast stuff. Thinking those, or something like them, would do the trick. Like shimming the air can on HV can rear shocks, yeah? It's my only real complaint with the fork. The bike sees a mix of local trail riding, as well as resort time. The local trails have lots of slow speed trialsy and techy things interspersed with faster bigger hits.

    Let me run lower pressure to get a bit more small bump compliance, yet still be able to handle larger hits, while using the compression circuits to keep it from being divy and wallowy?

    Pike content: Ordered up a 26" non-adjust 150mm model... It's going to replace the lowered Lyrik Solo Air on my TRc. Lyrik will go back ont he TransAM it came from, and the aging Revelation Dual Air gets sold to help pay for things!
    I haven't tried the tokens yet, but I did let a lot of air out of the fork and tried to ride it like that last night. Didn't work great, it was better with more air in it, more sensitive to bumps and such, if that makes sense. I don't think it was absorbing the roots and square impacts quite as well with the pressure let out, I was getting more front end movement too, but I didn't try to adjust the damping settings at all. Usually the problem with air shocks seems to be getting all the travel, I was getting a little too close to bottom on a few jumps last night with more sag. I guess tokens would be good to try, but the fork still felt damn good with the slightly higher pressure I was running (about 70).
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  14. #114
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    Quote Originally Posted by scrublover View Post
    Those of you who've played around with the bottomless tokens: think they'd work in some of the older Solo Air forks? I've got a Totem Solo Air on my big bike that even with lots of tweaking, I still have a hard time getting it to feel great on small and slow stuff while ALSO feeling great on big and fast stuff. Thinking those, or something like them, would do the trick. Like shimming the air can on HV can rear shocks, yeah? It's my only real complaint with the fork. The bike sees a mix of local trail riding, as well as resort time. The local trails have lots of slow speed trialsy and techy things interspersed with faster bigger hits.

    Let me run lower pressure to get a bit more small bump compliance, yet still be able to handle larger hits, while using the compression circuits to keep it from being divy and wallowy?
    !
    There's a trick used on the Fox Float forks...just shoot suspension fluid into your air chamber to take up volume. Once you figure out how much, you can replace it w/ something solid. As for Totems and tokens, does your Totem have a threaded piece under your air cap where you can thread on those tokens? If not, you might want to figure out a way to secure them onto the top of your air piston...
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  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by BorisD View Post
    Hoping fellow Pike owners can confirm a suspected problem.

    Got my new Pikes yesterday 26" 150mm, was very pleased - weigh only 80g more than my RCT3 Revs (1801g vs 1727g both with a 195mm steerer). Amazing.
    Very stiff and not as 'divey' as the Revs they replaced.

    However I think the damper is not working as it should -

    The dial adjuster only has two 'clicks' - one for fully open; the other when selecting platform; but no 'click' when selecting lockout.
    In lockout I can easily get 55mm of travel by pushing down on the fork.
    The Low Speed Compression has very little effect.
    When the rebound is on full 'slow' the fork still returns relatively quickly.

    Can someone confirm their fork does not behave like this?

    Thanks
    This is how my fork is as well. No click on the lockout setting.

  16. #116
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pau11y View Post
    There's a trick used on the Fox Float forks...just shoot suspension fluid into your air chamber to take up volume. Once you figure out how much, you can replace it w/ something solid. As for Totems and tokens, does your Totem have a threaded piece under your air cap where you can thread on those tokens? If not, you might want to figure out a way to secure them onto the top of your air piston...
    Not that I recall, but if there is, I doubt it would be the same size as what is under the Pike cap anyhow. Will take a look, and play with some oil in there to see how it feels.

    Figuring a way to stick something on the underside of the cap doesn't seem as if it would be too hard to figure out.
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  17. #117
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    Pike Dual Position Users

    Has anybody with a Dual Position Air (DPA) Pike ridden it much in the low travel position?

    This thread says that the DPA low position (on a Revelation) is intended mainly for climbing and the air spring in that position is too linear to use all the time. Can Bottomless Tokens be installed on the DPA model or are they only included with the Solo Air model? Is it possible to set up the DPA Pike to have good performance in the low position without ruining the performance in full travel mode?

    I'm contemplating buying a 29" Pike with DPA and would prefer to use it in 120mm travel mode most of the time, switching to 150mm mode only for the most rugged trail sections.

  18. #118
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    A few notes on my Pike. 140mm 29er, 46 offset.

    -I couldn't get full travel out if it at first, even with pressure lowered 15 psi under recommended. It felt awesome, but I just could only get 110mm of travel. Found that there were two volume reducing tokens in it from the factory (as well as two in the box). Removed them and it felt much better, ended up putting one back in to better balance it to the rear suspension on my Scott Genius.

    -No sag gradients on the stanchions.

    -Smoothest fork I've ever felt.

    -It's lighter than claimed 1863 g no axle, 1937 g with axle. And that's with two air reducers in the air chamber. (16 grams each)
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  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by brentos View Post
    A few notes on my Pike. 140mm 29er, 46 offset.

    -I couldn't get full travel out if it at first, even with pressure lowered 15 psi under recommended. It felt awesome, but I just could only get 110mm of travel. Found that there were two volume reducing tokens in it from the factory (as well as two in the box). Removed them and it felt much better, ended up putting one back in to better balance it to the rear suspension on my Scott Genius.
    This is good info thanks. I'm experiencing something similar on my rig, new Knolly Endorphin with 150mm 26" Pike. I've slowly kept lowering the pressure but still haven't bottomed it yet. Right now I'm about at 65 psi, and I'm about 215 RTR. At this pressure it's a bit more divey than I like, even with the LSC almost all the way cranked in open mode. I'll pull it apart this weekend and check to see if I have some of those tokens installed, my guess from reading your post is there might be.
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  20. #120
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    Could someone please post A-C numbers for all of the variations on this fork?

    I found the attached thumbnail from another thread but it will not open. Online search only gets a blurry chart that cannot be read.

    Considering this fork for my Knolly Endorphin, but cannot decide if I will go with the 26" 150/160mm or 27.5 150mm version. Currently running a Fox 36 Float set to 150mm for 535mm A-C and external cup HS.

    Thanks!
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  21. #121
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    Bubba, I can't remember but I looked it up long ago before I ordered mine. IIRC, the 26" 150 (which I bought) has a 532mm AtC, versus a 150mm Revelation at 528mm.

    Not sure about the others since I wasn't interested in them.
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  22. #122
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    Pike 2014

    My 29" 150mm is 558.
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  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by hillharman View Post
    This is how my fork is as well. No click on the lockout setting.
    PM sent.

    Cheers.

  24. #124
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muttonchops View Post
    I tried everything i know - all ranges of air pressure (high / med / low) , changing damper fluid and playing with my compression settings as described. I ordered the Pike....kinda answers the question as to whether i was succesful.

    re: the Revelation...single big hits were actually fine. It soaked up a surprise 3' nose heavy roll over this weekend when for sure i thought i was going OTB...but when it came to high speed chunder / roots and heavy front braking - it struggled.

    Everyone sounds stoked on the Pike...and I am enjoying reading all the feedack / input. Hopefully I will be able to "plug and play" when it arrives.

    thanks.
    @MuttonChops: I had the EXACT same problem with my Revelation. It is a great fork for regular trail riding, but give it some chop and it seemed to stiffen up horribly. Replaced it with a Pike on my SB-66 and its a new bike. The Pike really softens up the choppy roots and rocks, and takes a big hit nicely.
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  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by rscecil007 View Post
    Bubba, I can't remember but I looked it up long ago before I ordered mine. IIRC, the 26" 150 (which I bought) has a 532mm AtC, versus a 150mm Revelation at 528mm.

    Not sure about the others since I wasn't interested in them.
    Thanks! It looks like the 27.5" 150mm lands at 542mm a-c. Same as the 26" 160mm.
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