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  1. #101
    vko
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    Does anyone have instructions, oil volume etc for Trace 29er DLA fork?
    I changed the seals and after a few weeks I lost about 10mm of travel. Any ideas?

  2. #102
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    Thanks guys for this thread. Really informative and something I would like to do to my Trace RL2 in the near future. I did a basic dust deal service following the instructions from this thread and the x fusion videos. All seemed well and the fork felt great. However, I'm in the same boat as VKO. I'm losing about 10mm of travel. I contacted x fusion and they were really helpful. They advised me to do the business card trick (zip tie works too). Basically let all the air out of the fork then stick the business card down the dustwiper and you can hear a quick air release. That seemed to help for a couple of rides but I'm still losing the travel. I checked the air chamber last night. It was completely empty. There was no oil in it. I'm not ready to mess with the damper yet. I just want to get full travel again. Any hints as to why I'm losing the travel? I can let all the air out of the fork. Once I compress the fork the last 20mm of travel or so gets very hard to compress all the way to the crown. Any info would be appreciated.

  3. #103
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    Are u supposed to be able to compress it all the way down to the crown? On my Slide at 120mm I have 140mm of exposed stanchion...though I think normally I push my ziptie up to only 100mm of travel. I should probably look into this and try the business card method.

    The best way to test the damper is to operate it by hand, if there is too much oil it will act a lil springy with it getting close to fully compressed...though you'll have to take the lowers off to do this.
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  4. #104
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    Hmm, maybe this is why I can never seem to get all the travel out of my Sweep. Running 65psi vs the recommended 80 for my weight. Fork feels great otherwise!

  5. #105
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    My trace shows 120mm of exposed stanchion. When on the phone with x fusion, they advised that that it should fully compress to the crown pretty easily when all the air is let out. In order for me to do this, I have to do the business card method, cycle the fork, let air out of the chamber. I have to do this a couple of times.

  6. #106
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    I weigh about 175 and have the air pressure set at 60. If go any less than the 60 psi, the fork starts to dive on me. I think at that weight, the recommended psi is 65-70.

  7. #107
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    zephxiii - i noticed the increase stanchion when I kept putting air into the fork before the business card trick. I started to show 130mm of stanchion. Now I show 120mm when I release the air getting caught in the legs.

  8. #108
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmanuel09 View Post
    zephxiii - i noticed the increase stanchion when I kept putting air into the fork before the business card trick. I started to show 130mm of stanchion. Now I show 120mm when I release the air getting caught in the legs.
    You're not releasing air getting caught in the legs with the card trick, you are actually adding air to the legs. This added air goes into the "negative" chamber, which will prevent the fork from fully extending as easily. When the fork extends, the negative spring is compressing air. If you want to get back to full stanchion, try adding air to the fork, and doing the card trick when it's extended. This will remove air from the negative chamber and allow the fork to extend easier. The downside is the fork may have a topping out feel, and may not feel as plush.

  9. #109
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    D-bug - I just opened up the fork to do a quick oil service. I noticed on the air shaft there is a yellowish bumper looking pad sitting at the very end of the rod. Sits between the lower stantion and the end of the rod. I think that might be what's stopping it to get the last 10mm of travel. The videos in the x fusion website does not have this yellow piece. What do you guys think?

  10. #110
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    You got a pic of it?

  11. #111
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    Do you think I can cut it off? It measures exactly 10mm
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails official xfusion rl2 fork service and tuning thread-tracerl2.jpg  


  12. #112
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    Isn't that the bottom out bumper? I wouldn't remove that. I don't understand why xfusion says you should get full travel because that is often if not always reduced by the bottom out bumper.
    So your slightly reduced travel is perfectly normal.

  13. #113
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    Leave it. Chances are it's the bottom out bumper. Removing it will mean metal on metal contact when you bottom, which is never a good thing.

    Can you clarify your concern? Is it not extending far enough or is it not compressing far enough?

  14. #114
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    I think you guys are right. I will leave it on. My concern is not getting full travel. My o ring measures out to 100mm of travel on the stantion. Sometimes I'll hit 110mm of travel. I was thinking I shuold get that o ring all the way to the crown for full travel.

  15. #115
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    U know, maybe my Slide set to 120mm and only getting 100mm means my fork feels like it never bottoms out harshly?
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  16. #116
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    Updae - after my ride today I only got about 100mm of travel. I let all the air out and still couldn't get the fork to compress all the way. I brought it to my local bike shop and the mechanic opened up the damper side. When he took off the top cap, a lot of air hissed out and oil spewed all out of the fork. Lot's of oil came out. I'm assuming this is not good? is the damper suppose to be sealed? Can we just re fill the oil?

  17. #117
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    Yes it is a sealed damper and is supposed to be sealed.

    When I opened my RL2 damper i don't recall it being pressurized. Yes all you have to do is put oil back into it...

    However:

    It needs to be the correct oil, either exactly what the X-Fusion calls or something with same cst @ 40c benchmark results. I used a lighter weight oil.

    Also you need to put back in the exact amount of oil it needs. Too little and your lockout won't work, too much and it will be hard to compress in the last bit of travel.

    I didn't measure it as I put the wrong amount in originally (going off a number for a dif fork), so i just felt it out by operating the damper by hand.
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  18. #118
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    Thanks for the reply. I just picked up some Bel Ray 5wt oil. I'm going to tear into the fork right now. By any chance do you know how much goes into the trace rl2? I read 70ml on the first page.

  19. #119
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    Holy crap I did it. I followed the directions from this thread. Man.... Great job you guys. I got the Bel Ray 5 wt cause that's all they had at Cycle Gear that was local to me. I put it all together and getting full travel from what I can tell. Not really sure what was going on with it to not getting the travel but Hey, I can ride Demo this Sunday. Thanks again you guys!

  20. #120
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmanuel09 View Post
    Holy crap I did it. I followed the directions from this thread. Man.... Great job you guys. I got the Bel Ray 5 wt cause that's all they had at Cycle Gear that was local to me. I put it all together and getting full travel from what I can tell. Not really sure what was going on with it to not getting the travel but Hey, I can ride Demo this Sunday. Thanks again you guys!
    demo? Had i known you were local to me i could have helped out.
    Good job on getting it dialed.

  21. #121
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    Yup. Heading to demo this sunday am. Leaving Concord at 5:30am. Where are you located? I've recognized your mtbr name before. Thanks for all your help. That goes for everyone on this thread. Great info.

  22. #122
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    Quote Originally Posted by mmanuel09 View Post
    Yup. Heading to demo this sunday am. Leaving Concord at 5:30am. Where are you located? I've recognized your mtbr name before. Thanks for all your help. That goes for everyone on this thread. Great info.
    San Jose. Demo is my stomping grounds. Enjoy the ride!

  23. #123
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    First timer here...sorry for all the questions but this is the only source I've found online that is offering any hope. I'll just go ahead and spit out every question I've come up with, and hope some of them have been figured out. Thanks in advance if there are any answers. I've rebuilt many Fox / Rockshox but my X-Fusion seems like a whole different animal.

    Any experience with the DLA models? These have the immediate travel adjust 140-110, but not the internal spacers, and are not 650b convertible. I just switched from Fox to a 26" 2013 Velvet RL2 DLA 140-110. The X-Fusion website is really bad in terms of tech docs...they have nothing in terms of servicing the DLA model, which has the air valve on bottom of the fork.

    -I would literally have to bottom this thing out (crown to lower) to achieve 140mm of travel. Is this normal for X-Fusion? I run 25psi lower than recommended and still only get 130mm travel.

    -I saw how you are all unseating the damper side with a socket. Without the tool, do you just pound the lower on to reseat it? I'm a bit lost if it's just as simple as hitting it on with some PVC, or if you need to somehow 'guide' the damper rod through the bottom of the lower at the same time.

    -The air side on the DLA has the air valve on bottom of the fork, rather than the top. I cannot find any information on unseating / re-seating this.

    -X-fusion states that 15cc torco rsf medium goes into each lower. However if I rebuild the damper / air-side I see no concrete answer on volumes or weights...I assume this is Torco RSF Light.
    Is this volume something that people change the volume of to affect feel / plushness?
    I called X-fusion in regard to volume and all they would tell me is that the damper doesn't need to be serviced enough to worry about it (and to leave it sealed)...

    -(Negative air-spring): Regarding the 'credit card trick' above. When I drain the air valve completely and compress to test the travel range, should I do the 'credit card trick' and drain the air out of the lowers before airing up? Or do you want to do this trick with the forks extended (which I assume puts more air in the neg chamber)?

    -Has anybody found a way to modify the lockout? I never use this and would prefer it to just be a stiff setting for gravel roads / climbing.

    -Anybody tried the Enduro seals, or should I just stick with stock? Pointing back to my first issue, I think the Enduros would hit the crown if I ever achieved full travel...and do you change them every time you service the lower? I'd assume it's good to throw some slick honey in them upon assembly.

    Sorry if any of these have been addressed already but I have some trouble following without pictures.

  24. #124
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    When I last serviced my Trace RL2 the guys at X-Fusion said they were working on making their damper removal tool a purchase-able product. That was probably 4-5 months ago, and they expected it to be available about a month after I did the service. Has anyone talked to them lately and found out if the tool is available now?

  25. #125
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    Damn..... 3 good runs. coral, sawpit, and braile. Each run I hit full travel. No brake dive, didn't pack or pogo, and tracked super nice. The bike totally rode different in a really good way. I'm pumped!



    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    San Jose. Demo is my stomping grounds. Enjoy the ride!

  26. #126
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vulcanius View Post
    When I last serviced my Trace RL2 the guys at X-Fusion said they were working on making their damper removal tool a purchase-able product. That was probably 4-5 months ago, and they expected it to be available about a month after I did the service. Has anyone talked to them lately and found out if the tool is available now?
    According to an email exchange I had with them a few days ago, it it's available for purchase. He stated that the cost would be close to $150 if it was. He didn't hint at all that it would be available anytime soon either.
    A little while ago I found a site in Australia selling them, but I have no clue if they ship to the US. https://www.diymtb.com.au/displayItems.asp?cid=22

  27. #127
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    $150 for a chunk of metal with a threaded end? LOL! $20 seems reasonable.
    What would be cool is adapter for this:
    Park Tool Co. Ľ TNS-1 : Threadless Nut Setter : Frame & Fork Tools

  28. #128
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    $150 for a chunk of metal with a threaded end? LOL! $20 seems reasonable.
    What would be cool is adapter for this:
    Park Tool Co. Ľ TNS-1 : Threadless Nut Setter : Frame & Fork Tools
    The site I posted above seems to be their Australian distributor, and the tool prices seem to be closer to $50 which seems reasonable. Either way, we can't get them. Also having to use an arbor press the change travel is a pain in the ass.

  29. #129
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    In an attempt to remedy my Velvet RL2 DLA 140-110 only having 130mm of stanchion available, tried the "Business Card" trick with the fork compressed...it seems to have taken away 1cm of travel. So, I Extended the fork and tried this again...which did not bring it back. Now I've basically got a 120mm fork....any ideas would be oh, so appreciated.

  30. #130
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    So an update, I pulled the lowers off my Velvet RL2 DLA...the 'business card' trick had nothing to do with it. The Negative air chamber is hidden in some far off place that I cannot find my way into....there is apparently no documentation anywhere on how to work on this. The air chamber is a black tube that goes up into the stanchion from the bottom. The negative air spring pulls it up in pretty hard. Damper side is fine; that cannot be the problem. I couldn't get into it from the top. 27mm is too small; 28mm was a bit loose and started rounding off the edges. Couldn't take apart any of the assembly under the cap, as that is the dial for the DLA. The only thing I can think of is if air or oil had somehow leaked from positive to negative chambers. The idea of sending a 2 month old fork in for service for something like this really doesn't sit well; especially with what few threads I have found mention their 4th trip back within a year... so if anybody has had one of these apart I'd love to know how.

  31. #131
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    Quote Originally Posted by ztbishop View Post
    So an update, I pulled the lowers off my Velvet RL2 DLA...the 'business card' trick had nothing to do with it. The Negative air chamber is hidden in some far off place that I cannot find my way into....there is apparently no documentation anywhere on how to work on this. The air chamber is a black tube that goes up into the stanchion from the bottom. The negative air spring pulls it up in pretty hard. Damper side is fine; that cannot be the problem. I couldn't get into it from the top. 27mm is too small; 28mm was a bit loose and started rounding off the edges. Couldn't take apart any of the assembly under the cap, as that is the dial for the DLA. The only thing I can think of is if air or oil had somehow leaked from positive to negative chambers. The idea of sending a 2 month old fork in for service for something like this really doesn't sit well; especially with what few threads I have found mention their 4th trip back within a year... so if anybody has had one of these apart I'd love to know how.
    You might have to be the pioneer that figures out how to open the DLA up. When this thread was started a few of us took to taking apart the RL forks and documenting it, as there is no Xfusion online documentation.

    28mm should be the right size, though if you are using a socket you need to ground it totally flat to get the best contact, see the first post in this thread. 6 point is preferred over 12 point.

    The RL models have a strong physical negative spring in them. It's made of 2 metal coil springs that sit in the area you are talking about, I wonder if the DLA has something similar.
    official xfusion rl2 fork service and tuning thread-889720d1398907937-official-xfusion-rl2-fork-service-tuning-thread-unnamed-35-.jpg
    The RL model's second negative spring is just the open area on the lowers, this probably also applies to the DLA. This is the area where the card trick comes into play.

  32. #132
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    Thanks! I was actually going to crack this thing open today and post pictures, but at this point I have to say it's just not going to happen. I went to the LBS and had them use a 28mm Park cone-wrench and the top caps just would not budge...ended up bending the cone wrench and started to round the top caps. They must have had the Hulk tighten those things on with red loc-tite.

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    Dam, thanks for the update at least. I was hoping to fix the same issue myself, but x-fusion have just told me that it would be 'impossible' for me to fix the DLA myself and it needs to go to factory so maybe it's a mixed blessing. Let them deal with those topcaps!

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    I went ahead and ordered a Lunar Bike Tools 28 mm Fork Cap Wrench (A-Tech Fabrication)...$10 shipped.

    I think that after I did the "business card" track, (or placed the lowers back on while compressed), I found that I can actually run a much higher pressure, close to the recommended amount, rather than >20psi less. This brought the travel back up close to the advertised amount...back to about 130-135 which is where it was when I purchased the fork.

    **Edit**
    I went ahead and called X-Fusion since they're back from Vegas. Super cool customer Service once I called the gentleman directly who responded to my Email.
    Apparently they have a way to port the DLA which should resolve this issue (A full 140 should show), but I'm sending it in for a lower service and having them swap the DLA with standard air-spring since I'm not in the mountains enough to really justify it.

    I also asked about having the full lock-out converted to a stiff setting instead, and they are going to do this while they service it. I'm not sure what this involves doing, but it sounded like no extra parts are required. All in all, smooth transaction; if I figure out how they do the mod I'll post.
    Last edited by ztbishop; 09-15-2014 at 03:23 PM.

  35. #135
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    First off thanks for starting this thread!
    I have had a slant for 9 months, over this time I have played with pressures from 65-85psi, I have serviced the lowers twice.
    I have never been completely happy with fork, I have run various pressures over time and for a long while I ran about 68 psi, anyway I have a bit of fitness and decided to play with pressures again recently and went up to 80 psi again and this made a dramatic improvement in the way the fork performed. 80 psi is the recommended pressure for my riding weight and it felt the best in a long while.
    I find running fast rebound improves small bump sensitivity noticeably(does anyone else find this)I was running it about 8 clicks from full open.
    The issue with this was it would pogo a bit on hits but this was a compromise for its small bump compliance and general fork ride.

    Back to this thread, I stripped the fork and rearranged the shims, I put 2 small ones between the large and middle size one then the other two small. I had some yamalube 5wt fork oil, similar to torco light a little heavier, and motorex 7.5 for the bath oil.

    Well I am really impressed with how the fork feels now, almost blown away, the fork still doesn't dive but is now smooth/plush in almost every situation. Before i think the term is it would spike when hitting trail chatter or hits, now it has smoothed this out and just floats.

    Thought I would share my experience and hope more people will chime in.
    I am extremely reluctant to touch anything now as I am so happy with fork. I am generally a bit of a tinkerer when I ride alone I am always adjusting this and that but really this has been a dramatic improvement. Thanks again for the thread

  36. #136
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    Been riding my trace rl2 set at 140mm for about 3 months now. Still playing with the limited adjustments to fine tune the ride. So far the fork has been working well, until this week. The lockout has ceased to work. I do not use the lockout feature, but since it's not functioning that indicates somthing is wrong. Also I am getting a fairly hard and audible top out when compleatly unweighting the front. I assume this would be related to the negative air spring?

    So what are my options? I had planned on opening the fork to play with the shim stack at some point, but am hesitant to do so if this is a warranty issue.

  37. #137
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    Sounds like a loss of damper fluid...warranty it.

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  38. #138
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    Interesting, I have not noticed any leaking other than some lube on the statnions on the first few rides. The fork seems to dive excessively, lack of sufficient oil would cause this correct? I was considering running thicker oil to increase the compression dampening.

  39. #139
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    Yeah the diving is another sign of loss of damper oil. It is likely to be leaking into the lowers.

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  40. #140
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    I just stripped my Slant DLA to do the same mod as Tokrot, only to find that I have an extra 10mm shim, the order being 10, 10, 8, 5, 5, 5, 5.

    Anyone else found this? I am tempted to assume it's a mistake during assembly because they are so small and stick together really easily.

    Will go 10, 5, 5, 8, 5, 5. and report back i guess.....

    Thanks

  41. #141
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weedling View Post
    I just stripped my Slant DLA to do the same mod as Tokrot, only to find that I have an extra 10mm shim, the order being 10, 10, 8, 5, 5, 5, 5.

    Anyone else found this? I am tempted to assume it's a mistake during assembly because they are so small and stick together really easily.

    Will go 10, 5, 5, 8, 5, 5. and report back i guess.....

    Thanks
    Could you please first check the thickness of the shims? Maybe they tuned it by using thinner shims, but with one more...

  42. #142
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    Would love to, but no calipers. Will try and find a bikeshop that has some digital ones soon, they should be accurate enough right?

  43. #143
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weedling View Post
    Would love to, but no calipers. Will try and find a bikeshop that has some digital ones soon, they should be accurate enough right?
    Yup, I use digital ones as well.

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    Yes that will be interesting to know if they had two thinner 10 mm shims? I'm interested in your feedback Weedling. I have had a few more rides since my mod and it really is performing so much better for me.
    I have been hitting sections of my favorite trails a lot faster and smoother.

  45. #145
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    Quote Originally Posted by tokrot View Post
    Yes that will be interesting to know if they had two thinner 10 mm shims? I'm interested in your feedback Weedling. I have had a few more rides since my mod and it really is performing so much better for me.
    I have been hitting sections of my favorite trails a lot faster and smoother.
    tokrot and weedling...are you guys lighter riders? I am about 185 w/ gear on and have zero complaints with this fork. I am wondering if I am just suspension dumb and don't notice issues, or if there are no issues because I am heavier?
    X-prezo Super-D, 26in style.

  46. #146
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    Quote Originally Posted by y0bailey View Post
    tokrot and weedling...are you guys lighter riders? I am about 185 w/ gear on and have zero complaints with this fork. I am wondering if I am just suspension dumb and don't notice issues, or if there are no issues because I am heavier?
    We are both around 150-160lbs. Tokrot mentioned his recommended PSI is 80.

    Those of you who have the thinner custom 10mm shim, do you run it in the standard configuration or with the 1 or 2 of the smaller shims as spacers? (10, 5, 5, 8 ... etc)

    Glad to hear the forks better Tokrot, will be out on mine this weekend!

  47. #147
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    Could you please first check the thickness of the shims? Maybe they tuned it by using thinner shims, but with one more...
    The removed 10mm shim is .15mm, so same as standard. Can't be certain of the one left in the fork but I am pretty sure its the same. No wonder i thought this fork was over dampened!

  48. #148
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    Quote Originally Posted by Weedling View Post
    The removed 10mm shim is .15mm, so same as standard. Can't be certain of the one left in the fork but I am pretty sure its the same. No wonder i thought this fork was over dampened!
    y0bailey, I weigh 180#, so about the same as you kitted up.
    I guess I do like tinkering and my fork was due a service so found this thread re tuning the shim stacks so thought i would try it while it was apart.
    I never found my fork that plush so was keen on trying something.
    There has been a couple of people on here play with shims and been happy with results.

    Unfortunately for Weedling I guess after you try the fork this weekend with the 10,55,8,55 config you will probably want to try it back standard with the single 10mm shim!

  49. #149
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    Quote Originally Posted by grok22 View Post
    The lockout has ceased to work. I do not use the lockout feature, but since it's not functioning that indicates somthing is wrong. Also I am getting a fairly hard and audible top out when compleatly unweighting the front. I assume this would be related to the negative air spring?
    Hey grok22, fwiw, I had the same issue on my sweep rl2. When I took the damper apart, I noticed that the oil tube was only finger tight to the upper part of the damper (see step 8 on the first page for a reference). The majority of the oil had gone down to the lowers. Greased and tightened everything back up, added correct amounts of oil and the lockout is back in action, and no more of that terrible "top out sound" as you called it. Hope this works for you as well!

  50. #150
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr KennethNoisewater View Post
    Hey grok22, fwiw, I had the same issue on my sweep rl2. When I took the damper apart, I noticed that the oil tube was only finger tight to the upper part of the damper (see step 8 on the first page for a reference). The majority of the oil had gone down to the lowers. Greased and tightened everything back up, added correct amounts of oil and the lockout is back in action, and no more of that terrible "top out sound" as you called it. Hope this works for you as well!


    Hey thanks for the advice. Now I just have to find time I'm not riding to pull it apart.

  51. #151
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    My Slant just developed the 'not getting full travel' problem.

    It's been fine for 9 months but a full weekend of downhilling might've been a bit much!

    The problem is definitely with the damper as even at 0psi I can't get the last 5cm of travel. I whipped the lowers off and tried to compress the damper rod by hand. It should compress almost to the bottom of the stanchion but it reaches a point where it feels I'm compressing air

    I opened the damping leg top cap and a fair bit of air pished out along with some oil. So I figure either the damper has hydro locked by sucking up some of the lower leg oil, or somehow it's been compressed with air

    I emptied out all the oil and have some on order to refill the damper (Rock oil 5wt is the correct cst and available from crc)

    Bit worried it'll happen again. I can change the seals but the main damper seal against the stanchion doesn't move so it shouldn't have worn...

  52. #152
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    A big thanks to all who have contributed to this thread, my slant is now so much better after doing the shimstack rearrangement! The initial harshness is greatly reduced, plusher, but still enough support for when things get rowdy. I am going to just leave it alone now until it needs a service.

    I was pretty daunted about doing it at first, but thanks to this thread it was actually pretty easy!

    Running 75 psi @ 160lbs with Motul 2.5w (15 cst@40c) in the damper.

    Cheers!

  53. #153
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    I recently got my hands on a Sweep RL2, which the owner found too harsh (he was used to the lovely Pike), so he asked me to give the Sweep a service, and see if I could retune it a little.
    So I went to work, and disassembled the fork to feel how the damper felt when completely disassembled. I noticed you can really feel the damping at any speed, even at the lower speeds. So it's pretty clear that there is no free bleed in the compression stroke.
    So I changed the midvalve stack to 10, 5, 8, 5, 5, 5 to soften the low speed damping.
    I also decided to crack open the lockout blowoff, to check its shim configuration. You can see the measurements below:
    official xfusion rl2 fork service and tuning thread-img_1029.jpg
    When I look at the individual port-sizes for the low- and highspeed (lockout) circuits, I figure that that the lockout-circuit is only used in extreme situations. The ring shim creates a concave surface for the four 18x0.15mm shims to press against, and is therefore costs a lot of force to open up. Maybe when hitting a large root or rock straight-on.
    So I figured I would reduce some of that stack preload to soften the lockout and involve its circuit at lower speeds. So I moved the ring shim further up the stack, so that only two 18x0.15mm are above it. The total number of shims is still the same, but now preload is reduced!

    My friend will try this configuration next week, so until then I hope to hear your opinions as well.
    Be aware that you will need a THIN 12mm wrench to loosen the piston bolt (that also contains the midvalve assembly).

  54. #154
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    So to clarify, the current lockout stack is:
    18x0.2
    18x0.15 (2)
    18x0.3 + 16x0.15 (ring and centering shim)
    18x0.15 (2)
    12x0.15 (4)

  55. #155
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    RicB, This is exactly what happened to my trace RL2. I put 70cc of 5 wt oil and the first ride was unbelievable. Full travel and smooth. I've put a fair amount of miles on it since then not getting full travel as easy as when I drained the damper oil.

    Quote Originally Posted by RicB View Post
    My Slant just developed the 'not getting full travel' problem.

    It's been fine for 9 months but a full weekend of downhilling might've been a bit much!

    The problem is definitely with the damper as even at 0psi I can't get the last 5cm of travel. I whipped the lowers off and tried to compress the damper rod by hand. It should compress almost to the bottom of the stanchion but it reaches a point where it feels I'm compressing air

    I opened the damping leg top cap and a fair bit of air pished out along with some oil. So I figure either the damper has hydro locked by sucking up some of the lower leg oil, or somehow it's been compressed with air

    I emptied out all the oil and have some on order to refill the damper (Rock oil 5wt is the correct cst and available from crc)

    Bit worried it'll happen again. I can change the seals but the main damper seal against the stanchion doesn't move so it shouldn't have worn...

  56. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    So to clarify, the current lockout stack is:
    18x0.2
    18x0.15 (2)
    18x0.3 + 16x0.15 (ring and centering shim)
    18x0.15 (2)
    12x0.15 (4)
    Good info two-one! Thanks. I've been going back and forth on whether or not to try an xfusion fork and that answered some of my worries possibilities for revalving the rl2 damper. Not as robust as abs+ but may be a good option at some point since deals on Manitou's are getting harder to find.

    This thing basically has a base valve with a low speed free bleed that is controlled by the small shim stack. What I don't get is why they didn't incorporate a few detents into the adjuster so that it would have some more courser lsc adjustment. The high speed stack will still flow oil even with the damper open even though it's a pretty stiff stack, but like you have found, you can easily tune when it comes into play. If you want better square edge performance, I'd be working with the high speed stack. Did you happen to measure the size/geometry of the piston ports?

    Has anyone tried running the damper partially closed? It will probably ride fairly harsh without softening the high speed stack.

    Just judging by the pictures, it looks like you could go substantially softer on the high speed stack if you wanted more of a trail mode with the damper closed.

  57. #157
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    Does anyone know what model years of the Velvet had this same damper in it? I tried contacting xfusion, but got quickly fed up with the lack of technical knowledge by the guy tasked with answering my questions. From what I could gather, the early models and the latest models don't have this "midvalve" design.

  58. #158
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    If you want better square edge performance, I'd be working with the high speed stack. Did you happen to measure the size/geometry of the piston ports?

    Has anyone tried running the damper partially closed? It will probably ride fairly harsh without softening the high speed stack.

    Just judging by the pictures, it looks like you could go substantially softer on the high speed stack if you wanted more of a trail mode with the damper closed.
    I have only measured the ports in the midvalve assembly, which were 12 holes with 1mm diameter, so roughly equivalent to a single hole of 3,5mm.
    Looking at the pictures, the highspeed circuit looks like six ports of ~2mm, so about twice the flow area of the lowspeed circuit. But to make sure, I will have to measure all the other flowing area's... not just the ending ports.

    One of the tuning options is removing all the preload from the lockout stack, so you have two linear circuits parallel to each other. Running the lockout open will be equivalent to a single softer stack, while the lockout closed would give a firm stack, ideal for slow technical singletrack, or freeride.

  59. #159
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    @mmanuel09 - So yours improved and then gradually got worse again?

    Mine's definitely hydrolocked. Will need to keep a close eye on things when i refill.

    The easy way to 'bleed' the damper would be to take all the air out of the spring side, loosen the damper top cap most of the way, then slowly compress the fork and catch the excess oil as it comes out of the damper side.

    Unfortunately this means the lowers oil and damper oil have mixed so things won't be perfect but at least it's a quick fix if you're away riding for the weekend

  60. #160
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    Had my Velvet RL2 DLA converted to non-DLA (140mm), thinking this would fix my issue of only 130 - 135mm of visible stanchion. Got it back and it's still showing just over 130. Any other Velvet 140 owners, and does it generally give you less than this? If I pull the uppers and lowers away from each other, I can get 140 to show, but it never decompresses that far.

  61. #161
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    On my Velvet RL2 DLA, I just measured 144mm from the top of the seal to the bottom of the crown. There is also a line of the fork tube at exactly 140mm from the top of the seal showing how far the fork has been compressed out riding. With DLA engaged it is 30mm shorter.

    I have put about 500 miles on this fork over the past 5 months, I use DLA several times each ride and I have done zero maintainence and have had zero issues.

    Cheers,

    Lawrence

  62. #162
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    Quote Originally Posted by ztbishop View Post
    Had my Velvet RL2 DLA converted to non-DLA (140mm), thinking this would fix my issue of only 130 - 135mm of visible stanchion. Got it back and it's still showing just over 130. Any other Velvet 140 owners, and does it generally give you less than this? If I pull the uppers and lowers away from each other, I can get 140 to show, but it never decompresses that far.
    The spring system on air X-Fusions (bar the DLA) is quite simple.
    There is no negative chamber that can suck up travel. Only a negative spring.

    As a light rider, per my experience with other similar systems, the negative spring is too stiff for my recommended pressure making it show less stanchion length.

    Try upping up the pressure and see if that makes it extend. If so, your negative spring is too stiff for your weight. If not, look at the air plunger assembly. Probably it was set to 130mm
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  63. #163
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    should have an update soon
    Last edited by ztbishop; 10-11-2014 at 11:02 AM.

  64. #164
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    I was thinking the same thing. Just using a syringe to suck up some of that oil. I'm still able to get full travel but only on really hard hits. The fork doesn't soak up the trail like it did when I first re serviced it. Losing travel little by little. But yeah, I was thinking of doing that trick you just described.

  65. #165
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    Two-one, thanks for opening up the high-speed circuit, I think im gonna do the mod you did and see how it goes!
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  66. #166
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    Ztbishop

    Do you have the 10mm 650b spacer installed? In many forks you wont get the full 140 anyway due to the bottom out bumper, that's by design.

    If its an RL2 you won't have a 130mm option only 100 120 and 140 options. 130 definitely makes me think the 10mm 650b spacer is installed.

  67. #167
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    It's my Sweep that got Two-One's precision fork surgery.
    As Two-One mentiond I was after the 'Pike feeling' for my Sweep since I like that in general and will ride a City Downhill which involves a lot of stairs in november.

    Today I gave it a try and I am really happy with the result, of course the test ride sent me down a lot of.....stairs!
    The Sweep now absorb them transforming them in a flowy descend as where before all the individual steps could be felt.
    As for the lock-out: it's less 'absolute'. For climbing the 'in between position' at 45 degrees is a good solution as well.

    Front and rear are well balanced now, very happy with the result.

  68. #168
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    I had my sweep apart on the weekend for a service and to change the travel from 140 to 160mm. A tip for anyone else planning to adjust the travel, you can tap the pin out of the travel adjust thing with the pin from a chain breaker. Its the same size. I just unscrewed the pin from my chain breaker and then used it like a drift to tap the pin out of the travel adjuster. Not as controlled as an arbour press, but it did the job fine.

  69. #169
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    Check it out: Instagram

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  70. #170
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    Quote Originally Posted by zephxiii View Post
    Check it out: Instagram

    Only 5 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Nice! I emailed them to get one ordered
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  71. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by zephxiii View Post
    Check it out: Instagram

    Only 5 dollars!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
    Finally! Im ordering one tomorrow.
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  72. #172
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    So....I've managed to strip the hex head of the little screen that holds the blue lockout top cap in place.

    Don't suppose anyone knows what thread/size it is?

  73. #173
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    Quote Originally Posted by RicB View Post
    So....I've managed to strip the hex head of the little screen that holds the blue lockout top cap in place.

    Don't suppose anyone knows what thread/size it is?
    Try to use a torx key thats only a little bigger, T7 or T8?...

  74. #174
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    Yea I could bang in a T6 but I'm after a slightly more long-term solution :-)

    I suspect the thread is M1.6 (8mm long) so I've ordered some screws to check. 1.5mm hex heads have no place on mtb components. Even my old RC car didn't have hex heads that small!

  75. #175
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    So for information, the screws are m2.5 x 8mm

    I've bought some spares from eBay, which handily come with a bigger (2mm) hex head so far less likely to strip

    Big thanks to James at J-Tech, who posted a new screw out when I emailed to check the size. Awesome service :-)

  76. #176
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    Has anybody had looseness between the uppers and lowers? My wife told me she thought her headset was loose so I was checking the bike out and the headset is fine. After some head scratching and more bike wiggling, I realized there is play between the uppers and lowers. It's very easy to feel if I stick a finger between the lower and the fork brace and rock the front end with the front brake locked up.
    The fork is pretty new. It was given a "light rider" "custom" tune at the factory when new. The rider is about 120lbs and runs about 35psi to get appropriate sag. I'm going back and forth between contacting XFusion and sending it back to them.......again, or taking it apart and seeing if a basic service will fix it. I'm erring toward sending it back because reliability has already been an issue with it, and based on the symptoms I'm worried it's a bad bushing problem.

    To exacerbate things, despite the "light rider" tune, the fork still doesn't get full extension at the low pressure she's riding. I'm thinking it needs an even lighter negative spring than the "custom" one they presumably installed previously.

    Any input is greatly appreciated.

  77. #177
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    I have a knocking on my Trace which looks to be due to bushing play. If it's really bad or really bugs the rider, then return it. But under fork operation oil gets in there and fills the gap and it's not noticeable while riding.

    As for the issue about getting full travel:
    1. let all the air out of the fork
    2. compress it about half way
    3. do the zip-tie technique described earlier in this thread. (this is how the negative chamber is filled. Heavier riders are going to compress it all the way for a firmer negative spring, but at 35 PSI you won't need that strong of a negative spring, and a strong negative spring will overpower the positive spring. So try compressing only half way. If you get a top-out clunk, repeat the steps but go 3/4 compressed when you do the zip-tie trick. If you still can't get it to fully extend try compressing it 1/4 of the way for the zip-tie trick.)
    Also, if it's extending to just a few mm short of full extension I personally wouldn't worry about those last few mm. When it reaches about 7mm short I for sure would be looking to reduce negative spring PSI.
    4. Inflate the air chamber to 35psi and see how it works.

    It might sound like a bit of work, but once you figure it out it will be a non-issue.

  78. #178
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    Well I just did Two-ones's mod on the lockout/highspeed shim stack. Oddly, mine had only 3 of teh small shims on teh top of teh stack, not 4. Just testing it on the street, quite a difference. Feels more responsive and coil-like. Trail test as soon as my back heals. Thanks dude!
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  79. #179
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    Quote Originally Posted by d-bug View Post
    I have a knocking on my Trace which looks to be due to bushing play. If it's really bad or really bugs the rider, then return it. But under fork operation oil gets in there and fills the gap and it's not noticeable while riding.

    As for the issue about getting full travel:
    1. let all the air out of the fork
    2. compress it about half way
    3. do the zip-tie technique described earlier in this thread. (this is how the negative chamber is filled. Heavier riders are going to compress it all the way for a firmer negative spring, but at 35 PSI you won't need that strong of a negative spring, and a strong negative spring will overpower the positive spring. So try compressing only half way. If you get a top-out clunk, repeat the steps but go 3/4 compressed when you do the zip-tie trick. If you still can't get it to fully extend try compressing it 1/4 of the way for the zip-tie trick.)
    Also, if it's extending to just a few mm short of full extension I personally wouldn't worry about those last few mm. When it reaches about 7mm short I for sure would be looking to reduce negative spring PSI.
    4. Inflate the air chamber to 35psi and see how it works.

    It might sound like a bit of work, but once you figure it out it will be a non-issue.
    I cant seem to find this as described. Can you elaborate on this please?

    I have just installed my new TRACE RL2 140 (on a 2013 Giant TranceX 29 0) and would like to get the best from it straight away. I am 125kgs geared up. Ive set the rebound to 2 clicks faster than halfway. But with 30 clicks of adjustment, should i be more accurate. ( i have only ever used FOX FLOAT with 15 clicks). The local aussie distro DIYMTB is local to me, so would a custom factory tune, be of any use?
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  80. #180
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    Quote Originally Posted by ktm520 View Post
    Good info two-one! Thanks. I've been going back and forth on whether or not to try an xfusion fork and that answered some of my worries possibilities for revalving the rl2 damper. Not as robust as abs+ but may be a good option at some point since deals on Manitou's are getting harder to find.

    This thing basically has a base valve with a low speed free bleed that is controlled by the small shim stack. What I don't get is why they didn't incorporate a few detents into the adjuster so that it would have some more courser lsc adjustment. The high speed stack will still flow oil even with the damper open even though it's a pretty stiff stack, but like you have found, you can easily tune when it comes into play. If you want better square edge performance, I'd be working with the high speed stack. Did you happen to measure the size/geometry of the piston ports?

    Has anyone tried running the damper partially closed? It will probably ride fairly harsh without softening the high speed stack.

    Just judging by the pictures, it looks like you could go substantially softer on the high speed stack if you wanted more of a trail mode with the damper closed.
    Confirmed. I followed what two-one did, but instead of 2 18x0.15 shims on top of the ring, I put only 1 on top. I never really liked the solid lockout, and never felt the need to firm up the fork except on really long road climbs. This configuration created a soft "trail" mode when the lockout lever is in the closed position. Only slightly firmer than open. I like it!
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  81. #181
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    well i finally got out there and tested out two-one's mod that I did on my sweep. Quite a difference, seems to have more traction and small-bump compliance. Amazing how much softening the high-speed shim stack affects small (but square-edged) bump absorption. Also, the fork used to "chatter" under heavy braking in certain conditions, that has lessened. All in all, great modification for someone who doesnt like "firm" suspension. Thanks!
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  82. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwyooaj View Post
    well i finally got out there and tested out two-one's mod that I did on my sweep. Quite a difference, seems to have more traction and small-bump compliance. Amazing how much softening the high-speed shim stack affects small (but square-edged) bump absorption. Also, the fork used to "chatter" under heavy braking in certain conditions, that has lessened. All in all, great modification for someone who doesnt like "firm" suspension. Thanks!
    Is this when set to the open setting or the 'locked' setting?

  83. #183
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    Has anyone had any issues with rebound? Bought a 2013 frame with Slant rl2 and 02 rl. Both have super fast rebound, so much that you can hear them returning with a loud klunk. Neither seem to be responding to rebound adjustments either. It was suggested maybe air was in the system and they needed a bleed. Any suggestions?

  84. #184
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    Has anyone had any issues with rebound? Bought a 2013 frame with Slant rl2 and 02 rl. Both have super fast rebound, so much that you can hear them returning with a loud klunk. Neither seem to be responding to rebound adjustments either. It was suggested maybe air was in the system and they needed a bleed. Any suggestions?

  85. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by bkmad View Post
    Is this when set to the open setting or the 'locked' setting?
    Open setting. The locked setting is a bit softer too, blows off easier.
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  86. #186
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    Quote Originally Posted by zakkpw View Post
    Has anyone had any issues with rebound? Bought a 2013 frame with Slant rl2 and 02 rl. Both have super fast rebound, so much that you can hear them returning with a loud klunk. Neither seem to be responding to rebound adjustments either. It was suggested maybe air was in the system and they needed a bleed. Any suggestions?
    Not sure of the solution - but a mates Sweeps have had the same problem and have been sent back to Australian distributor to get fixed.

    Mine are off there today after having a seal service done and this has happened 3 times now (after being rebuilt each time) in 3 weeks.... bought some Pikes instead now.


  87. #187
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    Quote Originally Posted by dwyooaj View Post
    Open setting. The locked setting is a bit softer too, blows off easier.
    Did you check oil level in the damper?
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  88. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by zephxiii View Post
    Did you check oil level in the damper?
    He's not talking about a problem, but reporting the experiences after modding the lockout-blowoff shim stack, turning it into a highspeed regulating shimstack.

  89. #189
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    Oil level is perfect, since the reshim necessitates a full rebuild!
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  90. #190
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    An update on the missing travel / stanchion issue from before. It turned out that the part I had received a while back was a newer 120 spring without adjustment, which is why it seemed too short. I just recieved the correct 140 Velvet air spring assembly.
    I finally have the full amount of stanchion....IF I put 90+ in the fork (which is too much to be useable.)
    I found that 65 PSI is the right amount for me....which gives me about 135mm to the bottom out point (after a few rides I managed to use 120 of it).

    What I'm finding is that the negative coil spring pulls the fork down from top-out area unless I put a LOT of air in it, which makes it less than a true 140 at the right pressure. Has anybody else noticed this, or found a way around it? (The zip-tie trick doesn't seem to make a difference with only 65psi in the fork).

    I assume this is a trade-off for the small bump compliance (which is nice that it has no stiction at all.)
    Last edited by ztbishop; 11-24-2014 at 08:48 PM.

  91. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by zakkpw View Post
    Has anyone had any issues with rebound? Bought a 2013 frame with Slant rl2 and 02 rl. Both have super fast rebound, so much that you can hear them returning with a loud klunk. Neither seem to be responding to rebound adjustments either. It was suggested maybe air was in the system and they needed a bleed. Any suggestions?
    I have a Slide with the rl2 damper, and I have the opposite problem with rebound, in that it is too slow. I modified the stack of the triangular shims on the rebound piston, putting one of the small round spacers in between the two triangular shims, but it's still a little too slow. official xfusion rl2 fork service and tuning thread-fuerk6.jpgofficial xfusion rl2 fork service and tuning thread-fuerk8.jpg

    Additionally I found that there are spacers between the shaft of the damping rod and the rebound valve body, and that removing these spacers would allow the finger that the adjustment knob affects to block the orifices it affects earlier, giving more damping.

    From the other photos earlier in this thread it looks like the internals differ some between the fork models, but maybe this will give you a starting point.

  92. #192
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    Quote Originally Posted by vanderwheelstander View Post
    I have a Slide with the rl2 damper, and I have the opposite problem with rebound, in that it is too slow. I modified the stack of the triangular shims on the rebound piston, putting one of the small round spacers in between the two triangular shims, but it's still a little too slow. Click image for larger version. 

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    Additionally I found that there are spacers between the shaft of the damping rod and the rebound valve body, and that removing these spacers would allow the finger that the adjustment knob affects to block the orifices it affects earlier, giving more damping.

    From the other photos earlier in this thread it looks like the internals differ some between the fork models, but maybe this will give you a starting point.
    Is your fork an OEM or retail model?

  93. #193
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    My slide is a retail model. It was delivered in retail packaging, anyway. Purchased from eBay so its provenance can't be established.

    I'm planning to tear into it again today to open up the rebound even more, and to do two-one's mod to the high speed compression stack.

    zakkpw's problem, I'm re-reading, might be a lack of oil issue, although I'm not sure if he's experiencing it more in the fork or in the rear shock.

  94. #194
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    Ooops!

    Tinkered too much with the shims on my sweep. I rearranged the shims on the "high speed" stack a few times and used 2.5 wt oil. I liked the super plushness on slow rocky trails, stair steps, etc. as well as the fact that the lockout was now a softer trail mode. However, it tended to dive when braking, and on high speed runs, the fork actually felt better with the "soft" lockout on. Thus, I tried to reconfigure the stack to be more firm.
    When I tested the fork out, it felt ok, but now my lockout lever does nothing. Even when I returned the shims to stock configuration, the lever does not appear to change anything. I even changed back to 5wt Golden Spectro. I'm stumped. While I didnt really use the lockout lever before, the "trail mode" was very useful for me.
    I'll try to open up the fork and damper again and retrace my steps...again. Maybe I misplaced a shim somewhere, or forgot to tighten a bolt?
    SCB Nomad, SCB 5010v2, Turner RFX, Voodoo D-jab 650B, Voodoo Wazoo CX/commuter
    ...so far...

  95. #195
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    Quote Originally Posted by cobym2 View Post
    Tinkered too much with the shims on my sweep. I rearranged the shims on the "high speed" stack a few times and used 2.5 wt oil. I liked the super plushness on slow rocky trails, stair steps, etc. as well as the fact that the lockout was now a softer trail mode. However, it tended to dive when braking, and on high speed runs, the fork actually felt better with the "soft" lockout on. Thus, I tried to reconfigure the stack to be more firm.
    When I tested the fork out, it felt ok, but now my lockout lever does nothing. Even when I returned the shims to stock configuration, the lever does not appear to change anything. I even changed back to 5wt Golden Spectro. I'm stumped. While I didnt really use the lockout lever before, the "trail mode" was very useful for me.
    I'll try to open up the fork and damper again and retrace my steps...again. Maybe I misplaced a shim somewhere, or forgot to tighten a bolt?
    Your damper is apparently not blocking the oil flow... so first things first.. is there enough oil in your damper to submerge the piston? A lot of people fill an emptied damper, and forget to cycle the rebound piston a couple of times to make sure the space below the reboundpiston is filled with oil as well.
    Next, did you maybe reverse the compression piston? Or did you not stack the piston and shims in the correct order? it should be as follows:
    Compression Rod
    (3) 12x0.15mm shims
    (4) 18x0.15mm shims
    (1) 18x0.3mm ring shim around the 16x0.15mm shim (this creates preload)
    (1) 18x0.2mm shim (this is the faceshim, and should cover 6 out of 9 ports
    Piston
    (1) 18x0.? shim that covers the 3 other rebound ports
    (1) spring that pushes the shim with the narrow side down
    bolt.

    Let us know what you find out.

  96. #196
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    Cobym2, two-one has way more experience on this subject matter so start with his suggestions, but something that happened in my Slide (with remote lockout) is that the compression assembly was threaded to the top cap, and the nut holding my compression assembly to the top cap came loose, causing the whole assembly to rotate when applying the lockout rather than just the valve in the middle.

  97. #197
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    Your damper is apparently not blocking the oil flow... so first things first.. is there enough oil in your damper to submerge the piston? A lot of people fill an emptied damper, and forget to cycle the rebound piston a couple of times to make sure the space below the reboundpiston is filled with oil as well.
    Next, did you maybe reverse the compression piston? Or did you not stack the piston and shims in the correct order? it should be as follows:
    Compression Rod
    (3) 12x0.15mm shims
    (4) 18x0.15mm shims
    (1) 18x0.3mm ring shim around the 16x0.15mm shim (this creates preload)
    (1) 18x0.2mm shim (this is the faceshim, and should cover 6 out of 9 ports
    Piston
    (1) 18x0.? shim that covers the 3 other rebound ports
    (1) spring that pushes the shim with the narrow side down
    bolt.

    Let us know what you find out.
    Quote Originally Posted by vanderwheelstander View Post
    Cobym2, two-one has way more experience on this subject matter so start with his suggestions, but something that happened in my Slide (with remote lockout) is that the compression assembly was threaded to the top cap, and the nut holding my compression assembly to the top cap came loose, causing the whole assembly to rotate when applying the lockout rather than just the valve in the middle.
    Two one, vanderwheels:

    Thanks for the tips. I did as suggested. Everything was in its proper place. Correct orientation. As I mentioned, i already modded it previously several times and just wanted to firm it up a notch.
    But just now I noticed another problem while stripping it down. The lock out knob wont turn. Its frozen in place in the open position. I cant see why. The only reason I can imagine is that the tube containing the lockout rod has ovalized somehow, preventing the inner rod from turning, but I never clamped that tube at any time. Stumped again.

    Update: Just to make matters worse (or simpler), I managed to break the lockout rod at the knob-bolt. I now have a Sweep R, instead of an RL. x#@*G#%!!!!
    SCB Nomad, SCB 5010v2, Turner RFX, Voodoo D-jab 650B, Voodoo Wazoo CX/commuter
    ...so far...

  98. #198
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    Just an update. I swapped the damper body from my "broken" Sweep damper with the one from my Velvet RL2 on my hardtail. Fairly easy procedure: Just use the topcap and piston from the Sweep (larger diameter). Sweep is good to go again. The Velvet, however, had to take one for the team.
    SCB Nomad, SCB 5010v2, Turner RFX, Voodoo D-jab 650B, Voodoo Wazoo CX/commuter
    ...so far...

  99. #199
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    HELP - Broken Air Valve - X Fusion Velvet RL2 DLA

    Hi...

    I have a X Fusion Velvet RL2 DLA - very pleased with the fork - the thing is that i broke the air valve in the lower leg... don't ask how!!!

    Need to replace... do you know where to find the replacement part???

    Best Regards...

  100. #200
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fparra View Post
    Hi...

    I have a X Fusion Velvet RL2 DLA - very pleased with the fork - the thing is that i broke the air valve in the lower leg... don't ask how!!!

    Need to replace... do you know where to find the replacement part???

    Best Regards...
    Call xfusion directly. Santa cruz office. Its on their site.
    '14 rocky mountain altitude, rally edition
    '11 transition blindside, 650b converted

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