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  1. #101
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    For those that are interested, this the piston and shim assembly on the monarch (3.3 B-tune in this case):

    It's surprisingly similar to the Fox design in the previous picture, but with sims rather than the belleville washers on the high speed compression stack.

    I think I've got it all in the correct order (it all fell apart when I undid it obviously! ). Vertically arranged items are all the same.

    From left to right, there is slow speed compression, high speed compression, piston, high speed rebound, low speed rebound.
    The 'gate' lever adjusts the preload on the spring that closes the poppet valve in the center of the rod/nut that flows for low speed compression.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Monarch & IFP pressure change...-dsc01870.jpg  


  2. #102
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    I have followed this topic for a while now, more precisely since I bought a new El Guapo a month ago which came with a Monarch RT3 216mmx63mm. The Monarch has felt harsh from day one and nothing at all like the 2 x RP23 I've had before in other bikes which were very plushy.
    So following the recommendations here I decided to buy the valve adapter and try different IFPs. I started with 240psi but settled with 205 in the IFP and 160 in the main chamber with 35% sag (I weight 210lb). Now it feels very plushy (which I like for the increased grip) but works well in bigger hits too.
    The only feature that is not working as I hoped is the Floodgate, the use of its lever makes almost no difference. Would anyone know how to adjust that? I would like to be able to either totally open or totally close it (or have it as rigid as possible) but the way it is working right now I feel almost no difference, it feels as it is open all the time.
    Would anyone have a suggestion on how to correct that?
    Really appreciate any help :-)

  3. #103
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    I hope someone can enlighten us.

    My shock does the same thing - manitou s-type srl. It only has open and lockout. The lockout works like a super firm floodgate and will break on large hits. The lower the ifp pressure, the less force it takes to open the lockout. Unless someone knows how to adjust it, you will need to find a good medium between plushness and how the floodgate operates.
    Last edited by rlouder; 12-25-2011 at 10:29 AM.

  4. #104
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    I have a Spearfish with a Monarch R, M (rebound) L (compression) tune. 3" travel, 1.5" stroke = 2.0 leverage ratio. I weigh 235 and run 240 psi in the main chamber to achieve around 20% sag. I assume the stock IFP pressure is 250psi.

    From Salsa's literature (and my own observation), the suspension curve is designed to be firm in the beginning of the stroke, plush in the middle and firm at the end of the stroke. When mashing up a hill or ledge, I can easily blow through the initial firmness and into the plush mid stroke. Once that happens, pedal strike are common (Spearfishes have low bottom brackets)

    If I run a higher psi in the main can to combat this, the small bump compliance is terrible and I don't achieve full travel. What is the best way to firm up the mid-stroke without affecting the beginning and end travel? From what I have been reading, it seems like I could increase IFP pressure to achieve this. If I were to take it a step further, could I lower the main can pressure to improve small bump compliance?

    Thanks to everyone who has contributed, I've already learned a lot more than when I started.

  5. #105
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    Quote Originally Posted by greenblur View Post
    I have a Spearfish with a Monarch R, M (rebound) L (compression) tune. 3" travel, 1.5" stroke = 2.0 leverage ratio. I weigh 235 and run 240 psi in the main chamber to achieve around 20% sag. I assume the stock IFP pressure is 250psi.

    From Salsa's literature (and my own observation), the suspension curve is designed to be firm in the beginning of the stroke, plush in the middle and firm at the end of the stroke. When mashing up a hill or ledge, I can easily blow through the initial firmness and into the plush mid stroke. Once that happens, pedal strike are common (Spearfishes have low bottom brackets)

    If I run a higher psi in the main can to combat this, the small bump compliance is terrible and I don't achieve full travel. What is the best way to firm up the mid-stroke without affecting the beginning and end travel? From what I have been reading, it seems like I could increase IFP pressure to achieve this. If I were to take it a step further, could I lower the main can pressure to improve small bump compliance?

    Thanks to everyone who has contributed, I've already learned a lot more than when I started.
    You don't lose a thing by trying, but my guess is that you could end up with a shock that is not plush and may not achieve full travel.

    I would try to reduce the air volume in the main air chamber instead, unless you have a standard air can already.
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  6. #106
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    greenblur, I'm on a spearfish also, but only weigh 170. I've been playing with the IFP, but my conditions are the exact opposite. Like Warp suggested, the only way you will know is trying.

    I think you are asking too much from just air pressure changes. At your weight, you might need a revalve to get what you want. Don't get to hung up on hitting exactly 20% sag. The suspension curve you mentioned is only leverage ratio. That only one piece of the pie.

    I would trying lowering the IFP to around 210 and leaving the main where you have been running it, or a little higher. I'm running my IFP at 190. IFP pressure has a larger effect on small bump compliance than main pressure.

  7. #107
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    Anyone know where to get an IFP adapter? I've looked and the few places that list them online don't actually have them. Just got an RT3 and really need to add the high shim stack and tune IFP.

    Thanks!

  8. #108
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    Your LBS should be able to order it from QBP. AEBike.com had them listed a while back, but I'm not seeing them there now.

  9. #109
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    I bought a used Monarch and put it on my 2011 Specialized Camber 29er. It felt really sluggish. I lowered the IFP to 175 and main can to 120. It feels much better but not awesome. I'm wondering if I should send it to Push. I don't really want to spring for it but I do need to get the ride right. I had a Fox RP2 on it. With the Fox it felt pretty good the first part of the travel but ramped up and didn't get full travel. I am thinking about a high volume air can for the Fox. Just wondering which way to go. Don't want to sink a bunch of $$ into 2 shocks.

  10. #110
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    Hi !
    I have some real urgent questions and would really appreciate some help.

    I have just bought a 2010 monarch 4.2 for my dad's santa cruz heckler (even if I use it much more often :P)... But the problem is I have around 20% sag and it bottoms out very easily... I could of course add some more air but then my sag wouldn't be correct and that is the last thing I want
    It is a tune D and the heckler is kind of in between D and E but more towards D according to the rock shox chart...

    I have also heard I could take some pressure from the IFP chamber (what is this ? ^^) to make it more progressive... (I know I would have to buy an adapter) Is this possible ??

    And I was just wondering if I could stick a kind of "rubber spacer" thingy, like in a boxxer wc (I think), to reduce the volume of the air chamber so that the shock ramps up quicker (therefore more progressive)... Is this possible ?

    I would basicly like to be able to run the correct sag (25% would be ideal) without excessive bottoming... I weigh 140 lbs (only 17 years old) and ride DH (I have a dh bike) but kind forget the heckler isn't really meant for rough stuff and catching big air This is why I would like the shock to be more progressive...

    I would be really grateful for any help !
    Thanks in advance !
    I have already learnt a lot from this thread, so thanks to everybody who has posted !
    Eddy

  11. #111
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    I bought the IFP adapter recently, and have been monkeying with pressures. Can't really comment on findings regarding tuning yet, but I wanted to say something about the adapter itself. The o-ring on the shoulder of the adapter just north of the threads never wanted to seat properly as I was threading it into the IFP valves. I shredded it pretty quickly, and it no longer holds air. I poked a hole in a bike tube, pushed the threads of the adapter through up to the shoulder, and trimmed away the excess. Lubed it with slick honey, then threaded it into the valve. The edges of the valve recess trimmed the rubber so that it fits perfectly and holds air all the time without having to baby that ill-fitting o-ring anymore.

  12. #112
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    The key to the O ring is to push the adapter into the hole before twisting. The o ring will slide into the shoulder of the hole smoothly and the threads will then engage. You also want to lube the ring with a bit of grease. I have killed one or two o rings until I found out this trick.

  13. #113
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    I just got an RT3 and the red IFP adapter, but it doesn't seem to attach to the pump that RS included with the Monarch, it's very slightly too large. This surprises me quite a bit.

    I'm sure I can build some kind of crazy fitting... but shouldn't this fit?

  14. #114
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    it should fit...... you may need to borrow another shock pump from your buddy and try.

    out of topic: I found the adaptor can also be threaded into vivid coil, just swap a 0.5mm bigger O-ring.

  15. #115
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    Quote Originally Posted by drummercat View Post
    it should fit...... you may need to borrow another shock pump from your buddy and try..
    I actually have two Rock Shox pumps here, one from the brand-new RT3 and one from my Reba, and neither one fits the red Monarch IFP valve adapter. I'm planning to try a friend's pump, but it's very weird that a RS-made adapter doesn't fit a RS-made pump.

  16. #116
    i32
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    Is there someone, who changed the piston for lower tune?
    Is the lower tune affect platform resistance?
    I need good climbing ability and lockout feel, but small bumps sensivity is not ok, compare to Fox RP2. I'm depressure IFP to 220 psi, it was more better than 250, but not close to Fox sensivity. Now it's time to try piston changing, i think. Is this a way and what about platform?

  17. #117
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    IFP on RT3

    I see some people have problems with filling the IFP on RT3 monarch.

    I also had this problem, as i just tried to thread the adapter into the main schrader valve!

    The IFP chamber is not there however, please see the enclosed picture.

    Hope this helps somebody, as it atleast took me a while to figure out!

    My monarch is much better at 225 on my nukeproof mega.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Monarch & IFP pressure change...-ifp.png  


  18. #118
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    I did it by removing 1 of the shim in the compression shim stack.

    There is a thread regarding the shim stack of RT3 somewhere in the suspension forum, check it out.

    Quote Originally Posted by i32 View Post
    Is there someone, who changed the piston for lower tune?
    Is the lower tune affect platform resistance?
    I need good climbing ability and lockout feel, but small bumps sensivity is not ok, compare to Fox RP2. I'm depressure IFP to 220 psi, it was more better than 250, but not close to Fox sensivity. Now it's time to try piston changing, i think. Is this a way and what about platform?

  19. #119
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    Quote Originally Posted by jonkanon View Post
    I see some people have problems with filling the IFP on RT3 monarch.

    I also had this problem, as i just tried to thread the adapter into the main schrader valve

    (snip)
    My monarch is much better at 225 on my nukeproof mega.
    Yep, I'm trying to thread it in the right place, it just won't go. I've been working on filing down the edges and going to clean up the threads and see if that helps, and if not, just buy another adapter. I'm pretty sure the issue is the adapter.

    That said, the Monarch at the default settings is so much better than my old RP23 on my Leviathan!

  20. #120
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    I just got the adapter, but I am a little confused on adjusting the IFP pressure. I know you can adjust it while the shock is still on the bike, but do you have to let out all of the pressure in the main air can first before adjusting the IFP?

  21. #121
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    The air can and IFP are separate chambers, you don't need to let air out of the can.

  22. #122
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    oil?

    Hi there,
    I wish I had seen this tread before. Now I know why the piston broke and the tread as well . I had the wrong adaptors.

    I seem to have repaired the Monarch by glueing a new piston in the tread. But I have a question anyway. Somewhere I read the IFP should be at least 200 psi because of oil-separation. Is that correct? If so, do I now have a problem as the pressure has been zero and I haven't put any oil in?

    H3

  23. #123
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    Quote Originally Posted by h3d View Post
    Hi there,
    I wish I had seen this tread before. Now I know why the piston broke and the tread as well . I had the wrong adaptors.

    I seem to have repaired the Monarch by glueing a new piston in the tread. But I have a question anyway. Somewhere I read the IFP should be at least 200 psi because of oil-separation. Is that correct? If so, do I now have a problem as the pressure has been zero and I haven't put any oil in?

    H3
    Did you compress the shock while it had no pressure in the IFP?
    IF the answer is yes, you need to tear the complete shock apart and rebuild it. The IFP could have moved and you could have air in the oil side of the damper.

    If no, then just put inflate the IFP camber to 200psi (or thereabouts).
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  24. #124
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    too bad!

    Thanks for the info. I think it means the schock has to be rebuild. As the IFP chamber was empty, the main chamber was also emptied. Doing that, the schock compressed itself.

    I'm not sure what the repairguy did, but it came back with no pressure in both chambers. After that I had the following situations: IFP chamber on pressure, main chamber not on pressure, IFP not on pressure, main on pressure and both on pressure.

    Conclusion: rebuild?

    Is that an easy job?

  25. #125
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    Quote Originally Posted by h3d View Post
    Thanks for the info. I think it means the schock has to be rebuild. As the IFP chamber was empty, the main chamber was also emptied. Doing that, the schock compressed itself.

    I'm not sure what the repairguy did, but it came back with no pressure in both chambers. After that I had the following situations: IFP chamber on pressure, main chamber not on pressure, IFP not on pressure, main on pressure and both on pressure.

    Conclusion: rebuild?

    Is that an easy job?
    Ok, if you didn't ride it or compress it on purpose (I understand that it only moved when the main chamber was deflated), you could get away with it.

    No offense, but you don't sound mechanically inclined. Watch the Monarch rebuild video on youtube to get an idea of what you have to do.

    I would do the following:
    - Pressurize the IFP
    - Remove the Air canister
    - Compress the shock by hand and check that all adjusters do as intended and that the shock extends alone by itself and the stoke is smooth and there are no knocks or sounds. That would mean the damper is in good condition.
    - Only now, you can reiinstall the air canister and pressurize the shock's main chamber.

    If with the canister not on the shock, the stroke is not smooth, you hear hissing or bubbling noises, or metallic sounds, or the shock does not extends by itself, then you need to open the damper and get it rebuilt.
    Check my Site

  26. #126
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    thanks for the confidence. :-).I can do some technical stuff, but I don't know the right words in English. For example: Canister is that the main chamber which you can screw off? First step in the video.

    As I watched the video, I think it's not al that bad inside. I have seen a few drops of oil coming from the IFP piston, but not the amount that goes in there. The damper is used only 200 km's, so there should be no problem on that front. So I think I will try it on a short trip next week.

  27. #127
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    Hy guys!

    Bringing this thread back to life….

    I have read the whole thread and I am pretty aware of what to do to play with the IFP pressure on the Monarch; and I already have the adaptor from RS to do it….

    My question is: Before i go ahead and try it, I just want to make sure that the procedure, and the expected results, will be the same for a RS Monarch RC3 Plus, because of it's piggy bag. I want to lower the IFP pressure a bit on my RC3, to improve the small bump sensitivity on my Mojo SL.

    Should I go ahead and just do what you guys have done on your Monarchs 3.3, 4.2, RT3…?

    Thank you very much.

    Regards,

    Ed.

  28. #128
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    Anyone? Any clue?

  29. #129
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    does anyone think/know if this can work on Monarch with the modifications explained in this thread (shorten threaded part, drill hole to 2mm):

    SKS Rockshox Sid Adaptor | Buy Online | ChainReactionCycles.com

    why? well nowhere in the uk seems to have stock of the SRAM part (or many other SRAM parts, what's going on?!). kind of a disaster as i need to change my damper and of course that means an oil and IFP refill.
    Last edited by Smiff; 06-12-2013 at 01:27 PM.

  30. #130
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    Anyone has tried adjusting the IFP pressure of the 2013 model?
    The standard pressure for the 2013 model is 350psi, is it "safe" to go down to 300psi?

  31. #131
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    I do know that Sram has changed the ifp depth and psi about three times over the past 4 years for the RT3. This would seem to indicate that some psi and depth variation is acceptable.
    I know this because I had a local tech service my shock, and when I received it back it was obviously not right to me. Twice. The third time I called Sram, gave them the serial no. and was given the correct depth and psi for my shock. At that time I was also informed of the 3 different factory settings over the past 4 years, hence the confusion for my tech.
    I think I surely posted those specific settings on an interweb tread somewhere...

  32. #132
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  33. #133
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    Quote Originally Posted by dimitrin View Post
    I have read that, my question is will there be any adverse effect if I lower my 2013 Monarch RT3 IFP pressure to 300psi (eg. the gas and oil will mix).

    I had used the 2012 version perviously and I have positive result when I lowered it from 250psi to 200psi.

  34. #134
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    Make sure the can and ifp pressures do not cross each other. Either keep the ifp always below the can pressure (as in swinger 4 way air shock of the past) or higher, as in Fox. The Oring will keep switching sides in the seal head as the pressures cross. One does not want that.

    Coil shocks not an issue.
    lean forward

  35. #135
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    Another breath of life into this old one
    Help!!!!
    I read up on this and thought Id give it a go since my shock will not hold air.
    I released the air and nitrogen removed the schreader valves and the can will not move I broke the strap on the new wrench I had just bought.
    Then I thought I'd just try adding some lube and pump back up to see if it would hold air but when I screw the schrader valve in the IFP it will bottoms out so that the pin will not depress when you screw in the adapter to inflate
    What has gone wrong?

    I

  36. #136
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    When a shock has been used for some time, the oil will contain dissolved/emulsified gas. This is from slight seepage of IFP air and breakdown of the oil. Totally unavoidable.

    However, you don't realize that there is gas in your oil because the IFP pressure keeps it dissolved in the oil. When you release your IFP pressure, all that trapped gas can now expand and come out. This is exactly why a sealed container of Coke has no bubbles until you open it.

    In your case, all that erupting gas pushed your IFP all the way down to the tail of the shock. The reason you can't get the IFP schrader in now is because it's hitting the IFP (I did this once). You now have to disassemble the damper, pour out the old oil, reset the IFP height, and refill.

    Unfortunately, your post says you can't unscrew the air can. How did you "add lube?" You will need to remove the can to fully rebuild.

    For future reference, if the shock will not hold air in the air can, you should only service the air can seals. Do not ever release IFP pressure unless you are prepared to rebuild or do a bleed or you had recently rebuilt the shock already.

    Finally, my Monarch also would not hold air initially. The problem was traced to the seals between the air can and the extra volume sleeve. That may be your problem too so check them if after rebuild the leak persists. Good luck!
    "Adventure begins where good judgment ends."

  37. #137
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    I see
    Thanks for the advise
    I'll have another go at getting the can off otherwise I'll send it of to an expert
    I figured this would be worst case anyway so thought I'd give it a go 1st
    I guess would have been fine not for the air can removal issue

    Just managed to get the can undone had to put on 3 jaw chuck with a bolt through the eye- very tight
    Last edited by I Like Dirt; 09-05-2013 at 06:21 PM.

  38. #138
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    Old thread, but still very relevant and useful. RT3s still tuned stiff as he'll. My Titus Rockstar 29er came with one, and after a few months of riding, I have sag at about 40 just to get more travel.Still doesn't use it all up unless I really pound the bike! I'm going to try lowering ifp and hope it helps. As I said , this thread has been most helpful. Many thanks.

  39. #139
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    Posted on a similar thread, but no help. Just want to make sure I did this right. 1) Emptied main chamber (can). 2) Connected to ifp chamber and dropped it to 225 psi, did not completely empty it.3) Refilled main can to 100 psi ( not enough as it was hitting ) then to 170 psi ( 30 percent sag) Haven't rode it at this setting yet. Is this ok?

  40. #140
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    while you can run IFP pressures from 400 to 125 psi , ( it sounds like you did lower the pressure correctly ) and the different pressures will change feel somewhat , basically the nitro pressure is to hold the oil in a stable suspension state, in order to give the valving a consistent lever to deflect the valving while the shaft moves with a set amount of dampening depending on the valve stack design.

    if the shock is way to stiff , you would be better off changing the valve stack to lessen the compression dampening .

    The lighter IFP pressures do help ( I like to run 150 to 200 psi range ) but the biggest effect is in the valving ,if you really want your small bump compression to be plush you will alter your compression stack .

  41. #141
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    Hi Guys,

    Sorry for resurecting an old thread, but i really need your help, especially @TNC since we seem to have more or less the same bike. So the situation is like this:

    I own a Specialized Stumpjumper FSR '08, and recently decided to ditch the brain and get a new shock (the old one was working worse and worse and servicing it didn't help). So i bought a new Monarch RT3 (the black one, 2015), in the same size as the old AFR (184x44) and mounted it, all good. It works well but it not quite as plush as i was hoping (pumped at 170psi for my 75kg, sag 30%). What's more annoying is that it never seems to use more then 70% travel, even on fairly long trips on mountain terrain (small jumps included). With no air in it, i can compress it to 100% of stroke, so there is no issue with the shock.

    I read all the posts in this thread, especially the first one and they sounded like just the thing for me. So i bought a valve adapter for rockshox and started fiddling with the ifp pressure. My factory setting is 350psi. I lowered it as far as 250 (i fear getting lower then this) but really there is not much difference. Indeed the shock seems to be a little more plush, which is fine, but the amount of travel used is the same (haven't tested it on a long run yet, but based on before after testing, there's no change). I'll attach a picture to show this.

    Anyone has any ideeas on what else i can do? Do i need to get it serviced and tuned diferently? It is an MM tune, which according to my rear travel (120) and shock stroke (44) should be correct. Any help will be deeply appreciated.

    Thanks!


    Monarch & IFP pressure change...-imag0704.jpgMonarch & IFP pressure change...-imag0705.jpg

  42. #142
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    It needs a revalve. Definitely a L comp tune and maybe even a L reb.

    As you've found, lowering IFP has very little effect. It basically adds/subtracts from overall spring rate.

  43. #143
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    Ok, i suspected and feared this. I'll get it serviced and tuned low.

    Thanks!

  44. #144
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    Maybe, before revalving, I would buy large volume air sleeve. Then tune it with "tokens" (I use stripes of old inner tube) or something that takes space of positive air spring. Valving might not be enough to use full travel as there is not a that big difference between tunes.

  45. #145
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    That would make it more linear and therefore compensate the FSR progressive rate? Anyway, i don't think i can find a HV can for my size (184x44), so i don't think this works unfortunately.

  46. #146
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    A HV can could work, but overall you will be better off with a revalve. At your weight, both the reb and comp are overdamped. You actually have 3 options.
    1. Buy stock LL tune 50$, install yourself
    2. Pay lbs to do #1
    3. Custom tune from Avalanche/push/etc

    You will get the best performance from 3 at only 50-100$ more than #2. If you choose #1/2, call SRAM and make sure understand the difference between the multiple LL tunes.

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    Ok, i see. Since i live outside the US, the avalanche/push is not an option for me, although it would be nice. Guess i'll just have to sort it here with some lbs. Thanks!

  48. #148
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    Tf Tuned

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    So, i got it tuned at a local mechanic. Removed 2 shims from the shim stack to make it low tune, and changed to a lighter oil. The result is a nicer feel to the shock, more plush.

    However, there is little difference in terms of travel used. It seems more or less the same (after one ride).

    Monarch & IFP pressure change...-imag0812.jpg

    One thing i tried is to set sag differently, this time in the riding position, as opposed to standing position. The difference is quite big, for 30% sag, i need only 140psi in the riding position, compared to 170 with sag measured by standing in the saddle.

    Riding with 140psi seems ok, buy maybe too soft ... anyway, the travel used in this case is close to 80,85%, so better. I don't know what to think. I would buy the hv can if i could find one for my size, but they seem hard to find.

  50. #150
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    You definitely need to set sag when seated. Keep in mind that how much travel used is also a function of the type of trails you ride and what kind of features are on the trail. 85% usage isn't necessarily bad. Travel quality trumps quantity. The comp stack stiffness will also affect travel usage. You may need to further soften the stack. I don't know what the leverage curve looks like for that frame, but I still wouldn't jump to the conclusion that you need a high volume can.

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