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  1. #1
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    Marzocchi 888 rc3 wc 2008 upgrade to 2010EVO

    Hi,
    Can i change my old rc3 cartridge with the new rc3 EVO 2010(with changable shim stack)
    Is it a good idea?I don`t like the small bumps sensativity on my rc3 and i`m trying to improve it.I send for 2 weeks email to marzocchi and still don`t have answer

  2. #2
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    I say no. The 888 RC3 cartridge is still ultra-crude in terms of dapming. Yes, the Evo catridge add an adjustable shim stack, but they still control compression with that adjuster that simply closes off the oil ports in the bottom of the cartridge. The low-speed circut is then very crude and you can't independantly adjust low-speed damping, although now you can adjust the high-speed. The cartridge below is what I'm eventually going to get, just because I'm fed up with how crude marzocchi damping is. Fox and RS both have decent damping systems, while Marzocchi has great chassis and bottom-out resistance. http://www.avalanchedownhillracing.c...Cart%20Kit.htm
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

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  3. #3
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    thanks for the quick answer!I don`t like the marzocchi`s damping at all and the avalanche cartridge looks like the right answer with hi and lo speed compression damping!Do you now aprox price of the avalanche damper(there isn`t such info on their website)

  4. #4
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    And I was saying "no" in terms of the Evo upgrade being worth it, but just so you know the RC3 Evo cart WILL fit in 08 and 09 888s.

    That said, the details on the cartridge are a little sketchy so far, the price has not been nailed down, but the 888 is one of the first, if not the first forks, that will get a cartridge. You might even email Craig at Avalanche (he just returned an email from me on a different subject yesterday). There is a guy testing the cartridges and he said the cost was going to be somewhere between 300 and 400 dollars, and while that sounds steep, I'd imagine the marzocchi cart costs at least a few hundred dollars from experience, probaby close to $300 given it's the newest version of the RC3 (I've ordered their carts before). The Avalanche cart has a lot of parts that are intricate to machine. It's not necessary more complex than it needs to be, it's just that it's not cheap to machine all of that stuff when you think about all the parts he has to make and that it's not volume-driven. We'll have to wait and see on the final price, but I'm going to stick with my 08 RC3 WC until that Avalanche cart comes out. The "improvements" that marzocchi has made have been pathetically small IMO. Yes, it's nice to finaly have an adjustable shim stack (should have had that 10 years ago), but it's too little to late.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  5. #5
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    Have you changed the oil? Have you tried 5wt oil (fully synthetic motorcycle fork oil)? My 08 66 RC3 has phenomenal small bump compliance - much better than stock after changing the oil (as with all Marzocchis). I haven't checked the 08-09 888 oil levels, but it's probably still 185mm from the top (fork fully compressed, spring removed, damper rod down).

  6. #6
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    The small bump compliance on my '09 888 ATA is the best I've ever owned. The list is short but my '05 HSCV Junior-T's didn't even come close. True, a lot of people would enjoy the return of the RC2X cart with independent LSC and HSC but I am not one of them. The RC3 works very well with it's single compression adjustment.

    A lot of people on this forum would say that the RC3 cart. really was a well made piece of engineering. Complex isn't always the best. It may not provide the widest range of adjustments but it's very plush and can take some serious abuse.

    Some people need lots of knobs to fiddle with to make them think they are riding faster. The real speed is in your brain. Trust your tires, brake less and study your lines if you want to be faster than your buddy.
    Die to ride, ride to die

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bikesair
    The small bump compliance on my '09 888 ATA is the best I've ever owned. The list is short but my '05 HSCV Junior-T's didn't even come close. True, a lot of people would enjoy the return of the RC2X cart with independent LSC and HSC but I am not one of them. The RC3 works very well with it's single compression adjustment.

    A lot of people on this forum would say that the RC3 cart. really was a well made piece of engineering. Complex isn't always the best. It may not provide the widest range of adjustments but it's very plush and can take some serious abuse.

    Some people need lots of knobs to fiddle with to make them think they are riding faster. The real speed is in your brain. Trust your tires, brake less and study your lines if you want to be faster than your buddy.
    I can tell that you don't really know what is in a HSCV, RC2 or RC3 cart.

    There is no such thing as a RC2x cart, nor does it have LSC or HSC.

    There were RC2x forks, meaning that one side had the "x" cartridge, and one side had the RC2.

    The "x" cartridge was end-stroke damping, kind of to prevent bottom out.

    The RC2 cartridge is exactly the same as the RC3, just with no volume adjust. They both seem to have the same oil ports at the bottom and simplistic damping adjustment that simply restricts the flow in and out of the cartridge (rather than changing the preload on the shims or some sort of more complex low-speed adjustment. The compression adjustment affects overall compression damping, like an old Fox vanilla RC shock.

    The "small bump" compliance as you put it is probably the best you've owned, because it's provided by orofices on the cartridge after the high speed compression valve. It's fairly easy for oil to flow in and out of these, and is also the reason that marzocchis have had poor low-speed compression over the years, of course if you up the compression a lot it becomes like a jackhammer, because you're also restricting the flow past the base-valve (high speed compression).

    If you're old HSCV Jr Ts (must have been upgraded because they didn't come with HSCV) had worse small-bump compliance then something was seriously wrong, in fact the RC3 cart isn't that far removed, slightly bigger shim-area, but same low-speed compression control that the HSCV cart had, so there really shouldn't be a difference. I've had the Z2, Jr T, Super T (handmade), Shiver SC, Shiver DC, AM1/AM1+HSCV, 66RC2+Eta, 888WC.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    If you're old HSCV Jr Ts (must have been upgraded because they didn't come with HSCV) had worse small-bump compliance then something was seriously wrong, in fact the RC3 cart isn't that far removed, slightly bigger shim-area, but same low-speed compression control that the HSCV cart had, so there really shouldn't be a difference. I've had the Z2, Jr T, Super T (handmade), Shiver SC, Shiver DC, AM1/AM1+HSCV, 66RC2+Eta, 888WC.
    Your right, I haven't opened up my closed cartridges to take a peak inside but I know what they feel like and I can tell you that the HSCV cart that I installed in my junior-t's was no where near as subtle as my 888. Maybe it was the serious lack of adjustment on my Junior-T but I can push my 888 so much harder through the late brake chop that I have on many of my favorite trails.

    As for the RC2X you got me. Apparently I read a lie. Gotta watch out, there's lots.
    Die to ride, ride to die

  9. #9
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    Here's the HSCV cart, you can see I sawed it in half, I also sawed it down lower to remove the base-valve. The little oil ports you see at the bottom are what provide your low-speed damping, and they are probably the most responsible for your "small bump compliance". What RC2 mainly added was the ability to close off these ports by turning a sleeve around in there. RC3 is the same due to it just has the Volume Adjuster added at the top. The "piston" you see is the rebound-piston, comprised of a check-valve and orofice adjustment. High speed compression and rebound were provided by the base valve, which I removed. It had a few shims on each side, but was very very crude. I think the RC2 and RC3 improved on this a bit, but not by much, especially considering the entire package.
    Attached Images Attached Images
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  10. #10
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    Good pic's and thanks for the info. Getting a good understanding of dampers is best done with a physical cutaway so any info I get I appreciate. I like what Avalanche is doing and am surprised more are not. I'm glad to see that the industry is slowly figuring out that not using plastic isn't enough.

    I have a Swinger-4 way and an 888 that hopefully will see Avalanche dampers. Maybe after I pay off my tuition : /
    Die to ride, ride to die

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