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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDiggler
    Yep, I had the same exact problem. I weigh exactly the same as you as well.

    The solution is to add a little oil to the right leg (Non TST/compression side). This not only takes care of bottoming, you can also tailor the progressive-ness.

    Basically the more oil you put in the sooner in the stroke it will ramp up.

    Here's a trick, add about an 1/8 cup to the non TST leg and hit the trail. If it's ramping up too soon and you are not getting enough travel just flip the bike upside down and press in the air valve in to purge some of the oil out. Be careful! It will shoot out quickly so bring a rag to keep the oil from getting everywhere. Hit the trail again, test and repeat the oil purging until you are using all of the travel on the fork but not bottoming out.

    Mr. Diggler, you rock!

    I'm gonna give it a go tonight and I'll report back.

  2. #202
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    Increasing the air spring is one way to go, but it can be more effective to increase the damping.

    Damping is going to absorb the blow, dissipate the energy and let your bike float over the junk. The air spring is going to absorb the bump energy and then spring your bike back up in the air.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmax
    Mr. Diggler, you rock!

    I'm gonna give it a go tonight and I'll report back.

    Wow! Dirt Diggler - you were right on the money. The oil level in the spring side was way low and I ended up adding about 1/2 a cup in order to acheive 50mm from the top when compressed. The difference is amazing. The ramp-up begins way sooner in the stroke and the bottom-out issue seems to be gone. I can also run way less air pressure which gives it such a buttery smooth feeling. It's getting a proper test on our local trails today. I will report back. Thanks again!

    Proper oil level in the spring side is CRITICAL to the performace of this fork!

  4. #204
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    So I'm building up a hardtail (Transition Vagrant) that needs a 160mm fork and I see Jenson has these going for $259. Should I take the plunge (knowing I would perform this mod)? Worth the money? Can't find a used fork anywhere near this price...

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason B.
    So I'm building up a hardtail (Transition Vagrant) that needs a 160mm fork and I see Jenson has these going for $259. Should I take the plunge (knowing I would perform this mod)? Worth the money? Can't find a used fork anywhere near this price...

    Unfortunately the mod can only be performed on an '08 or '09 55 TST2. The fork on Jenson is a 2010. Check pinkbike and ebay. Plenty out there!

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason B.
    So I'm building up a hardtail (Transition Vagrant) that needs a 160mm fork and I see Jenson has these going for $259. Should I take the plunge (knowing I would perform this mod)? Worth the money? Can't find a used fork anywhere near this price...
    Check it out:

    http://wheelworld.com/product/marzoc...m-oem-7498.htm

  7. #207
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    Hi all,
    is the 55 TST2 damper the same as on 44 TST2 ? Probably 2009 year. I am maybe trading my Recon 351 for a 44 TST2 to get 15mm axle na 10-20mm more travel.

  8. #208
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    Vuco, the answer seems to be yes, the mod can be done on the '09 44tst2. See Stevo's reply to my similar question below. I haven't done the shim mod yet, as my 44 is still functioning OK, and I've got too many other unfinished (non-bike) projects to complete. But hopefully this winter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo the Devo
    Hi Jim,
    The internals of your fork ('09 44tst2) should be identical to the XC600 from 2008, so you are good to go! This is the fork which I modded, so check my posts as a good starting point (esp note the difference in oil height). Happy tuning
    Cheers, Steve
    It's not about speed, it's about lack of control.

  9. #209
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    Ive been following this board for a while and decided to mod my 09 44tst2. I cracked her open today. Really wasn't bad at all. I do believe there are some differences between the xc600 from steve and the 44 tst2. Steve reported an oil level of 80mm from the top. When I measured the stock oil level in the tst2 cart from the top with the rebound fully extended, I got a measurement of 110mm, exactly like the 55. I guess that means they made the compression piston longer on the 44.

    But you really dont need to take out or add any oil anyways. You can get to everything from the top and leave the old oil in place.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Z in VT
    Vuco, the answer seems to be yes, the mod can be done on the '09 44tst2. See Stevo's reply to my similar question below. I haven't done the shim mod yet, as my 44 is still functioning OK, and I've got too many other unfinished (non-bike) projects to complete. But hopefully this winter.
    Somehow I missed the post and I've probably read the topic 2-3 times in the past.
    Nonetheless, thanks Jim Z.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    The gap shown in the pic should be the oil return circuit, which you do not want covered. The other piston holes that do not go to the outer edge is what you want to cover.

    P
    I was wondering if the 09 44 tst2 had the updated tst2 cartridge with the double seals? Im reading about people having low oil volume issues in the cartridge with 2010 models causing them to loose the lockout. Do you run 7.5 weight oil in the tst cartridge or something lighter? Also, I'm currently running 4 shims 19mm, 18mm, 16mm, 14mm, all .1 mm thick. This is my first try. Any ideas for a better stack?

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by flsurflocal
    I was wondering if the 09 44 tst2 had the updated tst2 cartridge with the double seals? Im reading about people having low oil volume issues in the cartridge with 2010 models causing them to loose the lockout. Do you run 7.5 weight oil in the tst cartridge or something lighter? Also, I'm currently running 4 shims 19mm, 18mm, 16mm, 14mm, all .1 mm thick. This is my first try. Any ideas for a better stack?
    '09 should have the updated cart. "7.5wt" is a good start, but all brands 7.5wt will vary; check http://www.pvdwiki.com/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid for more info. Could be low volume in some carts, as QC has been the main issue for Marz. Without knowing what you do/don't like about your current fork's performance it is impossible to suggest a "better" stack. Cheers, Steve

  13. #213
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Quote Originally Posted by masonmax
    Unfortunately the mod can only be performed on an '08 or '09 55 TST2. The fork on Jenson is a 2010. Check pinkbike and ebay. Plenty out there!
    Why is this? could you explain.

    I have opened up my 2010 and so far everything seems the same.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermdeworm
    Why is this? could you explain.

    I have opened up my 2010 and so far everything seems the same.
    I don't know the differences, but if you find it works, post up your experience to add to the document.

    P

  15. #215
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    New question here. 2010 55 Tst2

    So sorry to start this thread up again, but I couldn't find a definitive answer if this mod worked on the 2010 forks.

    Anyone with thoughts/experience?
    The obsession of wheels fused with the passion of cycling
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    I had some shims from a previous Manitou TPC project and from MXTech.com

    Tom was a huge help in giving us the ID and max OD of the shims. See here: http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/marzocchi-55-tst2-set-up-help-needed-393052-post4289055.html I went with a pyramid stack for a good balance of low speed and high speed compression in the shim stack.

    You can shape the stack to your needs. That is the beauty of this mod - improving your fork goes way beyond turning a knob. It is like doing what PUSH does (only without the dyno )

    What I was trying to achieve was allowing the orifice damper to still handle 50-75% of the duty, but when needed the shims would open removing any spike. The goal was to have a "platform" at what used to be lock-out (as mentioned above I did like the LO for fast climbing). This is why there are the number of shims I put in there. I might have put only 3 if I were to use the shims only for damping.

    I weigh 180.

    I just did another mod which is spring related that really opened up the small bump compliance. (I will post to another thread in a couple of days)

    P
    Hey, do you know of any other sites where these shims can be ordered? I went to MXTech.com and upon checkout I got a warning message that told me the sites license was expired...I don't trust putting my personal info into their system such as my credit card number...

    Thanks

  17. #217
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    looks like i might give this ago, using masonmax's shim combo. im about 200 with full camelbak.

    wish me luck!

  18. #218
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    Ive got my tst apart, just looking at swapping out the spring side for spring only. Need to find shims to. Looking forward to getting it back togeather.
    Meh

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    So sorry to start this thread up again, but I couldn't find a definitive answer if this mod worked on the 2010 forks.

    Anyone with thoughts/experience?

    Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but, does anyone know if this mod will work on a2010 55 TST2 Air? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

    Judd

  20. #220
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    Sory for the threadmancy everybody. I 'd like to try this mod on my 2008 55 TST2. The fork doesn't use its full travel so I was going to service it anyway. Can anyone confirm the right amount of oil for each fork leg?

    Also if anybody has any suggestions for the shim stack they'd be more than welcome. I weigh around 100 kg and I mostly ride enduro/ AM trails. The bike is an On-One 456 Summer Season hardcore hardtail.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    Sory for the threadmancy everybody. I 'd like to try this mod on my 2008 55 TST2. The fork doesn't use its full travel so I was going to service it anyway. Can anyone confirm the right amount of oil for each fork leg?

    Also if anybody has any suggestions for the shim stack they'd be more than welcome. I weigh around 100 kg and I mostly ride enduro/ AM trails. The bike is an On-One 456 Summer Season hardcore hardtail.
    It's been ages... pyramid stack 17mm, 16mm, 16mm, 15mm, 13mm. All (I think) .010 thick except for the 13mm which is .005 thick. 18mm scraped the side of the cartridge. (all 8mm ID)

    On a side note, I only got hydro lock when I was going very fast on the 6x6 AM bike and hitting decent sized square edged objects. Dunno if you'll spike it on a hardtail... but you know your riding.

    Lack of full travel is due to too much oil on spring side, or oil migration into damper.

    Damper: 110mm from the top of cartridge, fully extended fork.

    Don't remember spring side oil level.

    P

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    Sory for the threadmancy everybody. I 'd like to try this mod on my 2008 55 TST2. The fork doesn't use its full travel so I was going to service it anyway. Can anyone confirm the right amount of oil for each fork leg?

    Also if anybody has any suggestions for the shim stack they'd be more than welcome. I weigh around 100 kg and I mostly ride enduro/ AM trails. The bike is an On-One 456 Summer Season hardcore hardtail.
    I've heard of necroposting, but what's threadmancy???
    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl
    Everytime you ride in mud, god kills a kitten.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by stiingya View Post
    I've heard of necroposting, but what's threadmancy???
    Same as threadomancy. Check it out in Urban Dictionary. I have less than 10 posts and can't post links yet.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    So sorry to start this thread up again, but I couldn't find a definitive answer if this mod worked on the 2010 forks.

    Anyone with thoughts/experience?
    I'd also like to know if the later (i.e. 2010/11) TST2 55's need the mod. Save me from ripping em open and messing up

  25. #225
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    Ps. How are you guys finding the reliability with the TST2 now?

  26. #226
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    This thread inspired me to look around on local auction sites... I found a Marzocchi 55 TST2 from 2009 with a broken lockout.

    I just took it apart, and it was a clear case of oil migration from the cartridge into the lowers. I would not be surprised if this is caused by the incredibly stiff blowoff washerstack.

    I'm planning to mod the compression circuit with one of the shimstack configurations in this thread, but I'm also curious about placing a ring-shim in there to preload the entire stack.

    I'd also like to machine a replacement rebound piston, and add a rebound shim stack, but that will have to wait until I have a functional bike to try it all out on

  27. #227
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    Rereading this topic and a two rides from this weekend- no matter how much I adjusted the psi or TST2 lever the forks rebound felt blown/ bust and the fork either spiked badly or submarined. At 220lbs I feel Im too heavy for the internal design and I think I will pay out and go with either the micro ti or rc3 internal replacement.

    Ideas?

  28. #228
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    Ps. I mean ideas as in micro good or just go for the 'daddy??


    Me and mods historically always go wrong.....I once experimented with oil weights and blew a et of Fox36s...

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    Rereading this topic and a two rides from this weekend- no matter how much I adjusted the psi or TST2 lever the forks rebound felt blown/ bust and the fork either spiked badly or submarined. At 220lbs I feel Im too heavy for the internal design and I think I will pay out and go with either the micro ti or rc3 internal replacement.

    Ideas?
    Sounds like something did not go right.

    @ 220 pounds the main issue you will have is the spring system. It's a very light coil with an air assist.

    @220: light coil = blow through, air assist = helps only last 1-2 inches of travel.

    Great for big chunk, but otherwise hyperactive.

    P

  30. #230
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    I finally was able to put some shims on my TST2 damper, and I used the following configuration:
    20.1,
    preload ring (consists of a 20.25 ring with an ID of 16, and a 16.1 shim)
    20.1,
    2x18.1
    2x16.1
    2x14.1

    I havent ridden anything really rough yet, but so far it feels awesome! In the open-setting, square edges seem to just dissolve, while the lockout-setting seems to give a nice subtle pedal/brakedive platform. It doesn't really lockout enough for efficient out-of-the-saddle sprints, but my GT Sanction is not that kind of bike of course

  31. #231
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    Help. We've just spent over an hour trying to undo the top cap to strip the fork with no joy. Would a strap wrench work? Or.....is the cap threaded counter-clockwise???

  32. #232
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    No,normal thread. First time it's tight. Try a cut up inner tube to grasp the tube with after wiping off as much oil as you can to get a grip.
    SPD pedals are an absolute menace to the well-being of the world, and ought be banned immediately.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bordershy View Post
    No,normal thread. First time it's tight. Try a cut up inner tube to grasp the tube with after wiping off as much oil as you can to get a grip.
    Ta would applying heat help? i.e. hairdryer or hot water?

  34. #234
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    You ARE trying to remove the top cap from the cartridge & not the crown right?

    When i modded my 08 TST2 i don't remember any locktite on the threads, but it was tight & the inner tube trick worked. Just resist the urge to clamp it with a tool coz if you crimp it your sol.
    SPD pedals are an absolute menace to the well-being of the world, and ought be banned immediately.

  35. #235
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    First thoughts? Unsure as Ive only cycled the forks around the block and not offroad....

    Unsure its worked?

    Riding at the kerb (lever fwd) its the same? as lever back
    One thing that I've noted is I now need more air psi than before. Is this good or no relation?

    Do i need to experience the forks on rock fast terrain to see the difference....afterall this is a high speed compression mod..

    The forks are still notchy however Ive only ridden the forks for 3 weeks total from brand new.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    Unsure its worked?

    Riding at the kerb (lever fwd) its the same? as lever back
    One thing that I've noted is I now need more air psi than before. Is this good or no relation?
    For me, the lockout setting is now pretty loose... more like a platformed setting, where you have to push beyond a threshold for the oil to flow. This setting is great for climbing and technical terrain where you don't want any brake dive.

    What kind of stack are you using?

  37. #237
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    I'm using pyramid stack 17mm, 16mm, 16mm, 15mm, 13mm. I'm 210lb in weight and I agree, from first impressions my lever is also pretty loose. I did think 'on a rocky terrain would the lever move itself with the trail impact/jarring forces'??

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    I'm using pyramid stack 17mm, 16mm, 16mm, 15mm, 13mm. I'm 210lb in weight and I agree, from first impressions my lever is also pretty loose. I did think 'on a rocky terrain would the lever move itself with the trail impact/jarring forces'??
    That's not what I meant with "loose" :P
    I meant that the hard lockout feeling is gone, and that it has been converted to a platform compression damper with my stack.

    Is your stack stiff enough to feel "locked out" ? And what pressure do you run? I run so little air pressure, that it doesnt even register on my shock pump :P ... maybe 5 or 10 psi?

  39. #239
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    Ah, yes that definite lockout feel has gone. The lever doesn't feel loose loose just smooth(?) in operation. I couldn't discern any difference between full off and full on though. Thats my fear (do I need to change/make the stack more pronounced?). Maybe its more subtle in operation...... I ran 40psi last night- forks were too linear. Ran 55psi and it felt better. If I ran 10psi the forks would sag well over 50%!

    How much do you weigh??

    I'll fit a ziptie tonight and do some more fettling, will stand up pedal aggressive etc to see if it sits further up in travel with compression 'on'..

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    Ah, yes that definite lockout feel has gone. The lever doesn't feel loose loose just smooth(?) in operation. I couldn't discern any difference between full off and full on though. Thats my fear (do I need to change/make the stack more pronounced?). Maybe its more subtle in operation...... I ran 40psi last night- forks were too linear. Ran 55psi and it felt better. If I ran 10psi the forks would sag well over 50%!

    How much do you weigh??
    I would say that you can try to use a bigger shim stack, as you see I currently use a preloaded stack of 8 0.1mm shims. I currently weigh about 86kg (190lbs), and my fork is a 160mm 2009 Marz 55 TST2 with coil spring & air assist.

    I'm actually considering creating my own dual-air spring for this fork, to replace the heavy steel spring and huge oil bath.

  41. #241
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    Wow.


    One tweak, how do I make the compression difference more pronounced? Two more 17mm shims added should do it?

    Still, wow. A totally different fork on rocky descents. The forks are BETTER than me - I actually thought last night 'erm isn't this abit quick'? (worried but smooth/fast).

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    Wow.


    One tweak, how do I make the compression difference more pronounced? Two more 17mm shims added should do it?

    Still, wow. A totally different fork on rocky descents. The forks are BETTER than me - I actually thought last night 'erm isn't this abit quick'? (worried but smooth/fast).
    MOAR shims!

    P

  43. #243
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    Idea! The way the shims work

    Well, I've been following this thread for a long time. I have now twice disassembled my 2010 55 TST 2 and I think I'm starting to figure the compression out... If I understand correctly the shim stack offers compression damping in parallel to the adjustable orifice ("lockout" knob).
    This seems to agree with the marzocchi recommendation of 3X 18mm 0.15mm thick shims (see earlier in this thread), as without some significant resistance to low speed in the shim stack, the adjustable orifice will have no influence.

    So I've added a few shims to my stack and it is now at:
    3X18
    2X16
    2X14
    all 0.1mm thick

    This was after I had to go to 28psi to avoid bottoming out on a 1m-to-flat drop (that's 3ft) on the previous setting of 1x18, 2X16, 1X14.
    I'm now running 22psi, getting realistic sag (20%) and the ex-lockout knob actually seems to make a difference to low-speed compression.

    I had a look at the rebound shim while the damper was open, and it seems that currently there is only one pre-loaded 20mm shim. I wanted to replace it with a 17mm, but the internal diameter hole for the rebound is 10mm not 8mm like on the compression side - so I used the only one I had, a 16mm (all 0.1mm thick).

    Will post some findings, when it stops raining around here and I can get out.

  44. #244
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    ... and if we just ... current shim stack performance

    Just wanted to update from my previous post,
    Finally got around to some real riding the other day, and here are my impressions:

    The 55 TST2 2010 is seriously rigid, much better than my 2005 150mm All-mountain 1, which was starting to bottom out, and "squirm" regularly.

    Still not the most sensitive to small stuff, but reasonable.
    Fast medium size stuff (staircases) is still smooth.
    Fast large hits (drops and jumps) are nice - the damping is obvious and no bottoming out.

    Now that the damping is more significant, I can lower the air pressure to 21psi, and the fork is much more active - it is amazing what 2-3psi will change.

    As a matter of fact, not only do I not bottom out, it seems like I am only getting to about 145mm travel, even on the bigger stuff (7ft jumps to flat/mild downward slope). I guess I may have overfilled my oil, or the dampening is just stiffening progressively.

    Still, the performance is the best so far, and no sign of bottoming out at my test wheely drop - a 3ft to absolute flat (at low speed).

    I'm 175lbs with riding gear, and tend to be light on my gear.

  45. #245
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    tst2 o rings

    hi ,I've been reading through the post and would like to say its awesome ,good job guys m question is can any1 tel me the o ring sizes as i want to change them ,once I've removed the cartridge thanks in advance

  46. #246
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    I've just bought a steel hardtail. Is it possible to decrease the travel on my 160 TST2's to 140mm?

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    I've just bought a steel hardtail. Is it possible to decrease the travel on my 160 TST2's to 140mm?
    There used to be a small 20mm black spacer on top of the positive spring between the spring and the air cap. Move that to the negative spring and your at 140mm.

    P

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    I've just bought a steel hardtail. Is it possible to decrease the travel on my 160 TST2's to 140mm?
    Ha ha ha ha ha.


    What happened to the SX?

  49. #249
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    Mazz's UK Importer etc say its not possible to reduce the travel on the 160 TST2's.


    The SX? It aint going nowhere...well to the powdercoaters..

  50. #250
    mtbr member
    Reputation:
    Join Date
    Apr 2009
    Posts
    353
    Question- how does this mod compare to the TST Micro cart?
    (Not micro ti).

    My forks hydrolocked and need a service-Im not touching them/sent them back to Mazz. The Micro cart addin works out at only +$40 extra as they'd throw the service in/done a deal.

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