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  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo the Devo
    Hey Cesper,
    Unfortunately the mod will not fix the hydro-lock problem, it can only be fixed by replacing the damper (or at least the bottom end cap) with the newer design. I would recommend contacting marz USA (or Marz Tech Dept on these forums) to arrange for a replacement under warranty before you do the mod. Cheers, Steve
    Hey Steve, I thought the hydro locking was caused by too much oil in the damper cart. I read that some oil could trickle in from the semi bath. But if the levels of both are corrected then how could the problem come back? With that being said, I am going to PM Tom about the new bottom nut. I'm guessing its recessed to contain an O ring to seal the shaft.



    Forgot to mention that i've put 20 miles on this fork and i'm not really missing my Magura Laurin. The Laurin felt a bit plusher on big hits but always seemed to blow through the travel and dive regardless of the psi. I'm running about 60 psi on the xc600 and its plush and not bottoming out. I think the addition of the coil spring in the air chamber is the key. I cant tell a different stiffness wise.
    Last edited by thebronze; 01-20-2009 at 10:59 AM.

  2. #77
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    I performed this mod last night and should add some notes here.

    I found it a hell of a lot easier to just remove the whole cartridge from the fork for the first time you do this. Marzocchi typically tightens the hell out of everything from the facotry, so you might be in for a lot of frustration trying the strap wrench method your first time. Slip off the rebound knob at the bottom, and use a 12mm socket on the lower nut. If you don't have an impact wrench or a high speed drill with a square drive adapter, it might not work out the best this way (or at all). Once you crack it a little bit loose, hit it with the drill. If it doesn't want to come off the very last bit, have someone pull upwards on the cartridge with some force while you hit it with the drill. Again, after the first time you disassemble everything removing the cartridge this won't be necessary, because....

    There are wrench flats! So place the lower wrench flat in a vice and pop the 27mm top cap out of the top of the cartridge. Then place the 27mm top cap wrench flats in the vice and remove the bolt head with a GOOD 10mm wrench. Don't use a 12pt for this if you can avoid it, because there is red loctite on that bolt and it's on there pretty good. Do your shim shuffling, and reassemble everything tight enough (not gorilla tight). Be sure to hit the bottom nut with a drill or impact wrench too.

    So, in the future, you can undo the top with a 27mm, then grab the cartridge body with a tube in your hand, remove the damper assembly with the 27mm, then do your thing and drop it back into the fork. Should take only a minute or so to get to the shims as long as you don't torque the living daylights out of everything upon reassembly.

    I haven't had a chance to mess with the shimstacks in it yet since I was shorter on my stock of smaller shims than I thought I was.

    Other notes: 50cc of lubricating oil in the right fork leg, and 75-80cc of oil in the cartridge yields exactly 110mm of oil height.

    Has anyone removed the bottom cap of the cartridge body (where the shaft goes through, the one with the wrench flats)? Also, can anyone identify what the threads are on the top cap to the fork leg, and the threads on the bottom of the upper cartridge tube (to the shaft cap)? I have a project in mind for this cartridge which would require me to order some new tubing for it...
    805

  3. #78
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    Quote Originally Posted by DHidiot
    I performed this mod last night and should add some notes here....
    Nice! Thanks for the tips and adding to the document.

    Let us know what you used for your shim stack and what your results are.

    I've no clue about the threads, and it is just a few minute job to get into the cartridge after the first time.

    P

  4. #79
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    I only put 2 18mm shims in the fork as a temporary fix (this wasn't my fork) until we can get a more appropriate stack going on. Will probably start at 18 18 17 16 15 13 for some more low/mid speed support and more blowoff towards the high end. That piston could probably benefit from some mild porting work too.
    805

  5. #80
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    Has anyone removed the bottom cap of the cartridge body (where the shaft goes through, the one with the wrench flats)? Also, can anyone identify what the threads are on the top cap to the fork leg, and the threads on the bottom of the upper cartridge tube (to the shaft cap)? I have a project in mind for this cartridge which would require me to order some new tubing for it...[/QUOTE]

    HI DHI,
    The bottom cap you are referring to is the rebound circuit of the damper, and it can be removed relatively easily using the strap wrench method. There is a chance that if you use the flats here to hold the damper whilst undoing the top cap that you will actually remove this instead of the compression damper; it just depends on which one is tighter (for you, obviously the bottom nut was tighter than the top). When referring to the threads at the top, are you after specific pitch info? if so, I'm afraid I can't help, but you should be able to buy a thread gauge fairly cheaply at a hardware store. Hope this helps, keep us all posted on tuning results.
    Cheers, Steve

  6. #81
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    Yes that bottom one is a lot tighter. I also just held the cartridge body still when I had that part in the vice to make sure it was the top that came loose (wasn't necessary but did it anyway just when it broke loose).

    I was thinking of the thread gauge idea too actually, but I didn't know if they would be too fine to read (I've only had to use a thread gauge once or twice).
    805

  7. #82
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    Hi, and thanks for everybode involved for figuring all this out. After I saw this thread and noticed there are still some -08 55 TST2 forks on sale for really good price this is getting really interesting. But I have some guestions and things I need to consider before I go shopping.

    - What is the real weight of a -08 55 TST2 fork (Yes I'm bit of an weight weenie)?
    - There is a coil spring only in left leg?
    - Is the left leg filled with oil like old open oilbath bombers, or is there just some 50ml of oil for lubrication?
    - Does someone have an idea about what ATA cartridge (used in 55 TST micro ATA) would cost? (Now some may ques what I'm going for)
    - Has someone been able to compare the performance of a 55 TST2 with modified damper to 55 TST micro ATA, Fox Float 36 RC2 or Talas 36 RC2? I mean can the TST2 be modified to be on bar with these more expencive forks or is there still a clear performance gain in higher end models.

  8. #83
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    Coil only in the left leg, believe it had 200cc of oil per the website's numbers (the right leg with the damper has 50cc lubricating oil in the leg itself, more in the damper). Ask MTD (Tom) about the cost for an ATA cart.
    805

  9. #84
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    I'm the guy who's fork DHI worked on. Tomorrow I'll order more shims and mess around with it next week. Maybe even bring tools on a ride and play with different setting. With new oil the fork felt much smoother. Can't wait to ride it this weekend.

  10. #85
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    I should also mention I used Showa 10w (SS-8?) oil in the damper since Nags is a bigger dude. Of course I also seem to notice that most Marzocchi's except the RC2 cartridges feel better with heavier oil than stock too, but that's just me.
    805

  11. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeXe
    Has someone been able to compare the performance of a 55 TST2 with modified damper to 55 TST micro ATA, Fox Float 36 RC2 or Talas 36 RC2? I mean can the TST2 be modified to be on bar with these more expencive forks or is there still a clear performance gain in higher end models.
    No comments for this?

  12. #87
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeXe
    Has someone been able to compare the performance of a 55 TST2 with modified damper to 55 TST micro ATA, Fox Float 36 RC2 or Talas 36 RC2? I mean can the TST2 be modified to be on bar with these more expencive forks or is there still a clear performance gain in higher end models.
    The way I understand it, Marzocchi's RC3 and Fox's RC2 will have more buttery feel than my mod (I haven't tried TST Micro). RC3 & RC2 dampers have only the compression piston moving in an oil bath, while the TST moves the damping oil through a stationary piston. Pushing the oil will have a bit of an impact.

    But the TST mod gives you compression adjust within hand reach during riding. I find that useful for various terrain. The mod also allows you to set the shim stack to your riding.

    For more consistent, big and square hit terrain the RC3/RC2 is probably better.

    For my style riding/terrain the performance difference and the benefits to having compression on top means I will stick with the TST mod.

    The forks in your question have different spring characteristics, which will make the forks behave very differently.

    P

  13. #88
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    Quick thanks to Tom who sent me a whole new TST2 cartridge for free. The new cart has a revised bottom cap which should seal out the semi bath better. Now I have another piston that I can custom valve for certain trails. I just revalved the stock tune by adding another 18 and 17mm OD. I'm pretty sure i'm using 18, 18, 17, 17, 16, 14, 12 and the stock washer, which was about 10mm od.

  14. #89
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    Quote Originally Posted by spacoli
    I still have one, mint condition, qr axle though. I'm hoping for the same results. Can anyone compare the two?
    I think the modded tst2 is better because it has adjustable low speed compression, rebound, and a fully customized shim stack. The compression damping feels better and more controlled to me than hscv but not quite as smooth. I think thats due to the shims in the tst2 and the oil has a more complicated circuit to flow through. I remember when I took apart a broken HSCV cart and laughed. It just had a plastic piston in it and some kind of valve/shim in the bottom of it. I was expecting to find a piston similar to what is now in the tst2.

  15. #90
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    +1 for Tom. I told him about my fork and 3 three days later I had the part. Now it's my turn to play

    I think i'll just start with 2 18mm's, and go down from there.

  16. #91
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    Take a look at the third picture in here:
    http://www.declinemagazine.com/Nucle...hp?itemid=1915

    To me it looks like a TST2 lock out lever on the left leg. Makes you wonder that this mod might have been race proven by a quite succesful rider...

  17. #92
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    Quote Originally Posted by TeXe
    Take a look at the third picture in here:
    http://www.declinemagazine.com/Nucle...hp?itemid=1915

    To me it looks like a TST2 lock out lever on the left leg. Makes you wonder that this mod might have been race proven by a quite succesful rider...
    That would be cool!

    I am pretty sure Tom worked with Brain Lopes to set up his suspension.

    P

  18. #93
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    Hmmmm

    Couple of questions?

    What stack would be recommended to take the harshness of the low speed compression

    Is this a job that can be done by a weekend mechanic?

    Where can I get the shims from?

    cheers Guys

  19. #94
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    Quote Originally Posted by SinbadIOM
    Couple of questions?

    What stack would be recommended to take the harshness of the low speed compression

    Is this a job that can be done by a weekend mechanic?

    Where can I get the shims from?

    cheers Guys
    This mod is to bring enhanced effect to the high speed damping. In stock form, low speed damping is minimal if you have the LO open.

    If you've taken apart a fork to service it before, you can probably do this. But I would not crack open a fork for the first time and mod it too. IMO, it would be too much.

    Shims can be had at www.mxtech.com

    P

  20. #95
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebronze
    I remember when I took apart a broken HSCV cart and laughed. It just had a plastic piston in it and some kind of valve/shim in the bottom of it. I was expecting to find a piston similar to what is now in the tst2.
    Hmm, I'm not sure if you actually did this. To get at the HSCV valve you have to saw-apart the cartridge, because it's not user-servicable and it's bonded together. The hscv piston is made of metal has two shims on either side, one should be for rebound and one should be for compression. There's an o-ring in the middle of it. It is really low-tech, with no fancy damping like you'll find with RC3 or any fox damper, but your description doesn't fit with it. I've taken a picture of it before, it might even be in this thread.
    "It's only when you stand over it, you know, when you physically stand over the bike, that then you say 'hey, I don't have much stand over height', you know"-T. Ellsworth

    You're turning black metallic.

  21. #96
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Hmm, I'm not sure if you actually did this. To get at the HSCV valve you have to saw-apart the cartridge, because it's not user-servicable and it's bonded together. The hscv piston is made of metal has two shims on either side, one should be for rebound and one should be for compression. There's an o-ring in the middle of it. It is really low-tech, with no fancy damping like you'll find with RC3 or any fox damper, but your description doesn't fit with it. I've taken a picture of it before, it might even be in this thread.
    It wouldn't be the first time that Marzocchi does the same part with different specs...

    I had a serviceable ETA cart which is not found easily. It could be something OEM where they skimped on features.
    Check my Site

  22. #97
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jayem
    Hmm, I'm not sure if you actually did this. To get at the HSCV valve you have to saw-apart the cartridge, because it's not user-servicable and it's bonded together. The hscv piston is made of metal has two shims on either side, one should be for rebound and one should be for compression. There's an o-ring in the middle of it. It is really low-tech, with no fancy damping like you'll find with RC3 or any fox damper, but your description doesn't fit with it. I've taken a picture of it before, it might even be in this thread.
    I cut mine open with a pipe cutter. The actual cart body had ruptured and I had to buy a replacement kit. It was an ebay fork and I can only guess what you'd have to do to rupture the metal like that. From what I can remember, there were no shims, and no o ring. There was a plastic glide ring on the piston similar to the teflon seals in fox, but it was white not blue. There was something in the bottom of the cart that looked like a second piston. I guess that might be where the shims are but it was attached and would not come out. It was definitely low tech. I may have the bits in the garage still. Not sure if it matters, but this was a z1 qr 130 from 2002/3 era with rebound on top of the hscv R leg.

  23. #98
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    Can anyone post the part numbers for the items needed for the lock-out to a low speed compression adjustment and adds a high-speed compression shim stack? Also what kind of oil do you recommend? Thanks
    Last edited by Supple1; 03-04-2009 at 05:30 PM.

  24. #99
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    There are no part numbers from marzocchi. You'll need to buy some shims to replace the stock washers that are blocking the compression ports on the piston. The low speed will flow through the tst port. I think my baseline stack is
    18
    17
    16
    16
    14
    12
    I'm using redline 10 wt synthetic oil, but I weigh 205. I may double the 17 or swap the 18 to a thicker shim in the future. All shims are 8mm inside diameter, .10mm thick. Your stack and oil weight/blend will probably be different than mine based on your needs but less us know what your after and we could try to suggest a baseline.
    /t

  25. #100
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    Quote Originally Posted by thebronze
    There are no part numbers from marzocchi. You'll need to buy some shims to replace the stock washers that are blocking the compression ports on the piston. The low speed will flow through the tst port. I think my baseline stack is
    18
    17
    16
    16
    14
    12
    I'm using redline 10 wt synthetic oil, but I weigh 205. I may double the 17 or swap the 18 to a thicker shim in the future. All shims are 8mm inside diameter, .10mm thick. Your stack and oil weight/blend will probably be different than mine based on your needs but less us know what your after and we could try to suggest a baseline.
    /t
    Thanks! I am 175 w/ pads and a moderate to aggresive rider

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