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  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by DirtDiggler
    Yep, I had the same exact problem. I weigh exactly the same as you as well.

    The solution is to add a little oil to the right leg (Non TST/compression side). This not only takes care of bottoming, you can also tailor the progressive-ness.

    Basically the more oil you put in the sooner in the stroke it will ramp up.

    Here's a trick, add about an 1/8 cup to the non TST leg and hit the trail. If it's ramping up too soon and you are not getting enough travel just flip the bike upside down and press in the air valve in to purge some of the oil out. Be careful! It will shoot out quickly so bring a rag to keep the oil from getting everywhere. Hit the trail again, test and repeat the oil purging until you are using all of the travel on the fork but not bottoming out.

    Mr. Diggler, you rock!

    I'm gonna give it a go tonight and I'll report back.

  2. #202
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    Increasing the air spring is one way to go, but it can be more effective to increase the damping.

    Damping is going to absorb the blow, dissipate the energy and let your bike float over the junk. The air spring is going to absorb the bump energy and then spring your bike back up in the air.

  3. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by masonmax
    Mr. Diggler, you rock!

    I'm gonna give it a go tonight and I'll report back.

    Wow! Dirt Diggler - you were right on the money. The oil level in the spring side was way low and I ended up adding about 1/2 a cup in order to acheive 50mm from the top when compressed. The difference is amazing. The ramp-up begins way sooner in the stroke and the bottom-out issue seems to be gone. I can also run way less air pressure which gives it such a buttery smooth feeling. It's getting a proper test on our local trails today. I will report back. Thanks again!

    Proper oil level in the spring side is CRITICAL to the performace of this fork!

  4. #204
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    So I'm building up a hardtail (Transition Vagrant) that needs a 160mm fork and I see Jenson has these going for $259. Should I take the plunge (knowing I would perform this mod)? Worth the money? Can't find a used fork anywhere near this price...

  5. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason B.
    So I'm building up a hardtail (Transition Vagrant) that needs a 160mm fork and I see Jenson has these going for $259. Should I take the plunge (knowing I would perform this mod)? Worth the money? Can't find a used fork anywhere near this price...

    Unfortunately the mod can only be performed on an '08 or '09 55 TST2. The fork on Jenson is a 2010. Check pinkbike and ebay. Plenty out there!

  6. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jason B.
    So I'm building up a hardtail (Transition Vagrant) that needs a 160mm fork and I see Jenson has these going for $259. Should I take the plunge (knowing I would perform this mod)? Worth the money? Can't find a used fork anywhere near this price...
    Check it out:

    http://wheelworld.com/product/marzoc...m-oem-7498.htm

  7. #207
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    Hi all,
    is the 55 TST2 damper the same as on 44 TST2 ? Probably 2009 year. I am maybe trading my Recon 351 for a 44 TST2 to get 15mm axle na 10-20mm more travel.

  8. #208
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    Vuco, the answer seems to be yes, the mod can be done on the '09 44tst2. See Stevo's reply to my similar question below. I haven't done the shim mod yet, as my 44 is still functioning OK, and I've got too many other unfinished (non-bike) projects to complete. But hopefully this winter.


    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo the Devo
    Hi Jim,
    The internals of your fork ('09 44tst2) should be identical to the XC600 from 2008, so you are good to go! This is the fork which I modded, so check my posts as a good starting point (esp note the difference in oil height). Happy tuning
    Cheers, Steve
    It's not about speed, it's about lack of control.

  9. #209
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    Ive been following this board for a while and decided to mod my 09 44tst2. I cracked her open today. Really wasn't bad at all. I do believe there are some differences between the xc600 from steve and the 44 tst2. Steve reported an oil level of 80mm from the top. When I measured the stock oil level in the tst2 cart from the top with the rebound fully extended, I got a measurement of 110mm, exactly like the 55. I guess that means they made the compression piston longer on the 44.

    But you really dont need to take out or add any oil anyways. You can get to everything from the top and leave the old oil in place.

  10. #210
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jim Z in VT
    Vuco, the answer seems to be yes, the mod can be done on the '09 44tst2. See Stevo's reply to my similar question below. I haven't done the shim mod yet, as my 44 is still functioning OK, and I've got too many other unfinished (non-bike) projects to complete. But hopefully this winter.
    Somehow I missed the post and I've probably read the topic 2-3 times in the past.
    Nonetheless, thanks Jim Z.

  11. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    The gap shown in the pic should be the oil return circuit, which you do not want covered. The other piston holes that do not go to the outer edge is what you want to cover.

    P
    I was wondering if the 09 44 tst2 had the updated tst2 cartridge with the double seals? Im reading about people having low oil volume issues in the cartridge with 2010 models causing them to loose the lockout. Do you run 7.5 weight oil in the tst cartridge or something lighter? Also, I'm currently running 4 shims 19mm, 18mm, 16mm, 14mm, all .1 mm thick. This is my first try. Any ideas for a better stack?

  12. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by flsurflocal
    I was wondering if the 09 44 tst2 had the updated tst2 cartridge with the double seals? Im reading about people having low oil volume issues in the cartridge with 2010 models causing them to loose the lockout. Do you run 7.5 weight oil in the tst cartridge or something lighter? Also, I'm currently running 4 shims 19mm, 18mm, 16mm, 14mm, all .1 mm thick. This is my first try. Any ideas for a better stack?
    '09 should have the updated cart. "7.5wt" is a good start, but all brands 7.5wt will vary; check http://www.pvdwiki.com/index.php?title=Suspension_Fluid for more info. Could be low volume in some carts, as QC has been the main issue for Marz. Without knowing what you do/don't like about your current fork's performance it is impossible to suggest a "better" stack. Cheers, Steve

  13. #213
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    Bonking ... not feelin' well

    Quote Originally Posted by masonmax
    Unfortunately the mod can only be performed on an '08 or '09 55 TST2. The fork on Jenson is a 2010. Check pinkbike and ebay. Plenty out there!
    Why is this? could you explain.

    I have opened up my 2010 and so far everything seems the same.

  14. #214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hermdeworm
    Why is this? could you explain.

    I have opened up my 2010 and so far everything seems the same.
    I don't know the differences, but if you find it works, post up your experience to add to the document.

    P

  15. #215
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    New question here. 2010 55 Tst2

    So sorry to start this thread up again, but I couldn't find a definitive answer if this mod worked on the 2010 forks.

    Anyone with thoughts/experience?
    The obsession of wheels fused with the passion of cycling
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  16. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr.P
    I had some shims from a previous Manitou TPC project and from MXTech.com

    Tom was a huge help in giving us the ID and max OD of the shims. See here: http://forums.mtbr.com/shocks-suspension/marzocchi-55-tst2-set-up-help-needed-393052.html#post4289055 I went with a pyramid stack for a good balance of low speed and high speed compression in the shim stack.

    You can shape the stack to your needs. That is the beauty of this mod - improving your fork goes way beyond turning a knob. It is like doing what PUSH does (only without the dyno )

    What I was trying to achieve was allowing the orifice damper to still handle 50-75% of the duty, but when needed the shims would open removing any spike. The goal was to have a "platform" at what used to be lock-out (as mentioned above I did like the LO for fast climbing). This is why there are the number of shims I put in there. I might have put only 3 if I were to use the shims only for damping.

    I weigh 180.

    I just did another mod which is spring related that really opened up the small bump compliance. (I will post to another thread in a couple of days)

    P
    Hey, do you know of any other sites where these shims can be ordered? I went to MXTech.com and upon checkout I got a warning message that told me the sites license was expired...I don't trust putting my personal info into their system such as my credit card number...

    Thanks

  17. #217
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    looks like i might give this ago, using masonmax's shim combo. im about 200 with full camelbak.

    wish me luck!

  18. #218
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    Ive got my tst apart, just looking at swapping out the spring side for spring only. Need to find shims to. Looking forward to getting it back togeather.
    Meh

  19. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    So sorry to start this thread up again, but I couldn't find a definitive answer if this mod worked on the 2010 forks.

    Anyone with thoughts/experience?

    Sorry to bring this back from the dead, but, does anyone know if this mod will work on a2010 55 TST2 Air? Any help would be greatly appreciated!!!

    Judd

  20. #220
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    Sory for the threadmancy everybody. I 'd like to try this mod on my 2008 55 TST2. The fork doesn't use its full travel so I was going to service it anyway. Can anyone confirm the right amount of oil for each fork leg?

    Also if anybody has any suggestions for the shim stack they'd be more than welcome. I weigh around 100 kg and I mostly ride enduro/ AM trails. The bike is an On-One 456 Summer Season hardcore hardtail.

  21. #221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    Sory for the threadmancy everybody. I 'd like to try this mod on my 2008 55 TST2. The fork doesn't use its full travel so I was going to service it anyway. Can anyone confirm the right amount of oil for each fork leg?

    Also if anybody has any suggestions for the shim stack they'd be more than welcome. I weigh around 100 kg and I mostly ride enduro/ AM trails. The bike is an On-One 456 Summer Season hardcore hardtail.
    It's been ages... pyramid stack 17mm, 16mm, 16mm, 15mm, 13mm. All (I think) .010 thick except for the 13mm which is .005 thick. 18mm scraped the side of the cartridge. (all 8mm ID)

    On a side note, I only got hydro lock when I was going very fast on the 6x6 AM bike and hitting decent sized square edged objects. Dunno if you'll spike it on a hardtail... but you know your riding.

    Lack of full travel is due to too much oil on spring side, or oil migration into damper.

    Damper: 110mm from the top of cartridge, fully extended fork.

    Don't remember spring side oil level.

    P

  22. #222
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    Quote Originally Posted by Lapsus View Post
    Sory for the threadmancy everybody. I 'd like to try this mod on my 2008 55 TST2. The fork doesn't use its full travel so I was going to service it anyway. Can anyone confirm the right amount of oil for each fork leg?

    Also if anybody has any suggestions for the shim stack they'd be more than welcome. I weigh around 100 kg and I mostly ride enduro/ AM trails. The bike is an On-One 456 Summer Season hardcore hardtail.
    I've heard of necroposting, but what's threadmancy???
    Quote Originally Posted by the_owl
    Everytime you ride in mud, god kills a kitten.

  23. #223
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    Quote Originally Posted by stiingya View Post
    I've heard of necroposting, but what's threadmancy???
    Same as threadomancy. Check it out in Urban Dictionary. I have less than 10 posts and can't post links yet.

  24. #224
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    Quote Originally Posted by dustyduke22 View Post
    So sorry to start this thread up again, but I couldn't find a definitive answer if this mod worked on the 2010 forks.

    Anyone with thoughts/experience?
    I'd also like to know if the later (i.e. 2010/11) TST2 55's need the mod. Save me from ripping em open and messing up

  25. #225
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    Ps. How are you guys finding the reliability with the TST2 now?

  26. #226
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    This thread inspired me to look around on local auction sites... I found a Marzocchi 55 TST2 from 2009 with a broken lockout.

    I just took it apart, and it was a clear case of oil migration from the cartridge into the lowers. I would not be surprised if this is caused by the incredibly stiff blowoff washerstack.

    I'm planning to mod the compression circuit with one of the shimstack configurations in this thread, but I'm also curious about placing a ring-shim in there to preload the entire stack.

    I'd also like to machine a replacement rebound piston, and add a rebound shim stack, but that will have to wait until I have a functional bike to try it all out on

  27. #227
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    Rereading this topic and a two rides from this weekend- no matter how much I adjusted the psi or TST2 lever the forks rebound felt blown/ bust and the fork either spiked badly or submarined. At 220lbs I feel Im too heavy for the internal design and I think I will pay out and go with either the micro ti or rc3 internal replacement.

    Ideas?

  28. #228
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    Ps. I mean ideas as in micro good or just go for the 'daddy??


    Me and mods historically always go wrong.....I once experimented with oil weights and blew a et of Fox36s...

  29. #229
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    Rereading this topic and a two rides from this weekend- no matter how much I adjusted the psi or TST2 lever the forks rebound felt blown/ bust and the fork either spiked badly or submarined. At 220lbs I feel Im too heavy for the internal design and I think I will pay out and go with either the micro ti or rc3 internal replacement.

    Ideas?
    Sounds like something did not go right.

    @ 220 pounds the main issue you will have is the spring system. It's a very light coil with an air assist.

    @220: light coil = blow through, air assist = helps only last 1-2 inches of travel.

    Great for big chunk, but otherwise hyperactive.

    P

  30. #230
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    I finally was able to put some shims on my TST2 damper, and I used the following configuration:
    20.1,
    preload ring (consists of a 20.25 ring with an ID of 16, and a 16.1 shim)
    20.1,
    2x18.1
    2x16.1
    2x14.1

    I havent ridden anything really rough yet, but so far it feels awesome! In the open-setting, square edges seem to just dissolve, while the lockout-setting seems to give a nice subtle pedal/brakedive platform. It doesn't really lockout enough for efficient out-of-the-saddle sprints, but my GT Sanction is not that kind of bike of course

  31. #231
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    Help. We've just spent over an hour trying to undo the top cap to strip the fork with no joy. Would a strap wrench work? Or.....is the cap threaded counter-clockwise???

  32. #232
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    No,normal thread. First time it's tight. Try a cut up inner tube to grasp the tube with after wiping off as much oil as you can to get a grip.
    SPD pedals are an absolute menace to the well-being of the world, and ought be banned immediately.

  33. #233
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bordershy View Post
    No,normal thread. First time it's tight. Try a cut up inner tube to grasp the tube with after wiping off as much oil as you can to get a grip.
    Ta would applying heat help? i.e. hairdryer or hot water?

  34. #234
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    You ARE trying to remove the top cap from the cartridge & not the crown right?

    When i modded my 08 TST2 i don't remember any locktite on the threads, but it was tight & the inner tube trick worked. Just resist the urge to clamp it with a tool coz if you crimp it your sol.
    SPD pedals are an absolute menace to the well-being of the world, and ought be banned immediately.

  35. #235
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    First thoughts? Unsure as Ive only cycled the forks around the block and not offroad....

    Unsure its worked?

    Riding at the kerb (lever fwd) its the same? as lever back
    One thing that I've noted is I now need more air psi than before. Is this good or no relation?

    Do i need to experience the forks on rock fast terrain to see the difference....afterall this is a high speed compression mod..

    The forks are still notchy however Ive only ridden the forks for 3 weeks total from brand new.

  36. #236
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    Unsure its worked?

    Riding at the kerb (lever fwd) its the same? as lever back
    One thing that I've noted is I now need more air psi than before. Is this good or no relation?
    For me, the lockout setting is now pretty loose... more like a platformed setting, where you have to push beyond a threshold for the oil to flow. This setting is great for climbing and technical terrain where you don't want any brake dive.

    What kind of stack are you using?

  37. #237
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    I'm using pyramid stack 17mm, 16mm, 16mm, 15mm, 13mm. I'm 210lb in weight and I agree, from first impressions my lever is also pretty loose. I did think 'on a rocky terrain would the lever move itself with the trail impact/jarring forces'??

  38. #238
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    I'm using pyramid stack 17mm, 16mm, 16mm, 15mm, 13mm. I'm 210lb in weight and I agree, from first impressions my lever is also pretty loose. I did think 'on a rocky terrain would the lever move itself with the trail impact/jarring forces'??
    That's not what I meant with "loose" :P
    I meant that the hard lockout feeling is gone, and that it has been converted to a platform compression damper with my stack.

    Is your stack stiff enough to feel "locked out" ? And what pressure do you run? I run so little air pressure, that it doesnt even register on my shock pump :P ... maybe 5 or 10 psi?

  39. #239
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    Ah, yes that definite lockout feel has gone. The lever doesn't feel loose loose just smooth(?) in operation. I couldn't discern any difference between full off and full on though. Thats my fear (do I need to change/make the stack more pronounced?). Maybe its more subtle in operation...... I ran 40psi last night- forks were too linear. Ran 55psi and it felt better. If I ran 10psi the forks would sag well over 50%!

    How much do you weigh??

    I'll fit a ziptie tonight and do some more fettling, will stand up pedal aggressive etc to see if it sits further up in travel with compression 'on'..

  40. #240
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    Ah, yes that definite lockout feel has gone. The lever doesn't feel loose loose just smooth(?) in operation. I couldn't discern any difference between full off and full on though. Thats my fear (do I need to change/make the stack more pronounced?). Maybe its more subtle in operation...... I ran 40psi last night- forks were too linear. Ran 55psi and it felt better. If I ran 10psi the forks would sag well over 50%!

    How much do you weigh??
    I would say that you can try to use a bigger shim stack, as you see I currently use a preloaded stack of 8 0.1mm shims. I currently weigh about 86kg (190lbs), and my fork is a 160mm 2009 Marz 55 TST2 with coil spring & air assist.

    I'm actually considering creating my own dual-air spring for this fork, to replace the heavy steel spring and huge oil bath.

  41. #241
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    Wow.


    One tweak, how do I make the compression difference more pronounced? Two more 17mm shims added should do it?

    Still, wow. A totally different fork on rocky descents. The forks are BETTER than me - I actually thought last night 'erm isn't this abit quick'? (worried but smooth/fast).

  42. #242
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    Wow.


    One tweak, how do I make the compression difference more pronounced? Two more 17mm shims added should do it?

    Still, wow. A totally different fork on rocky descents. The forks are BETTER than me - I actually thought last night 'erm isn't this abit quick'? (worried but smooth/fast).
    MOAR shims!

    P

  43. #243
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    Idea! The way the shims work

    Well, I've been following this thread for a long time. I have now twice disassembled my 2010 55 TST 2 and I think I'm starting to figure the compression out... If I understand correctly the shim stack offers compression damping in parallel to the adjustable orifice ("lockout" knob).
    This seems to agree with the marzocchi recommendation of 3X 18mm 0.15mm thick shims (see earlier in this thread), as without some significant resistance to low speed in the shim stack, the adjustable orifice will have no influence.

    So I've added a few shims to my stack and it is now at:
    3X18
    2X16
    2X14
    all 0.1mm thick

    This was after I had to go to 28psi to avoid bottoming out on a 1m-to-flat drop (that's 3ft) on the previous setting of 1x18, 2X16, 1X14.
    I'm now running 22psi, getting realistic sag (20%) and the ex-lockout knob actually seems to make a difference to low-speed compression.

    I had a look at the rebound shim while the damper was open, and it seems that currently there is only one pre-loaded 20mm shim. I wanted to replace it with a 17mm, but the internal diameter hole for the rebound is 10mm not 8mm like on the compression side - so I used the only one I had, a 16mm (all 0.1mm thick).

    Will post some findings, when it stops raining around here and I can get out.

  44. #244
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    ... and if we just ... current shim stack performance

    Just wanted to update from my previous post,
    Finally got around to some real riding the other day, and here are my impressions:

    The 55 TST2 2010 is seriously rigid, much better than my 2005 150mm All-mountain 1, which was starting to bottom out, and "squirm" regularly.

    Still not the most sensitive to small stuff, but reasonable.
    Fast medium size stuff (staircases) is still smooth.
    Fast large hits (drops and jumps) are nice - the damping is obvious and no bottoming out.

    Now that the damping is more significant, I can lower the air pressure to 21psi, and the fork is much more active - it is amazing what 2-3psi will change.

    As a matter of fact, not only do I not bottom out, it seems like I am only getting to about 145mm travel, even on the bigger stuff (7ft jumps to flat/mild downward slope). I guess I may have overfilled my oil, or the dampening is just stiffening progressively.

    Still, the performance is the best so far, and no sign of bottoming out at my test wheely drop - a 3ft to absolute flat (at low speed).

    I'm 175lbs with riding gear, and tend to be light on my gear.

  45. #245
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    tst2 o rings

    hi ,I've been reading through the post and would like to say its awesome ,good job guys m question is can any1 tel me the o ring sizes as i want to change them ,once I've removed the cartridge thanks in advance

  46. #246
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    I've just bought a steel hardtail. Is it possible to decrease the travel on my 160 TST2's to 140mm?

  47. #247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    I've just bought a steel hardtail. Is it possible to decrease the travel on my 160 TST2's to 140mm?
    There used to be a small 20mm black spacer on top of the positive spring between the spring and the air cap. Move that to the negative spring and your at 140mm.

    P

  48. #248
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    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    I've just bought a steel hardtail. Is it possible to decrease the travel on my 160 TST2's to 140mm?
    Ha ha ha ha ha.


    What happened to the SX?

  49. #249
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    Mazz's UK Importer etc say its not possible to reduce the travel on the 160 TST2's.


    The SX? It aint going nowhere...well to the powdercoaters..

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    Question- how does this mod compare to the TST Micro cart?
    (Not micro ti).

    My forks hydrolocked and need a service-Im not touching them/sent them back to Mazz. The Micro cart addin works out at only +$40 extra as they'd throw the service in/done a deal.

  51. #251
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    Ok, my forks were topping out. So I sent them back to the distributor to sort. Yes I was honest that there was a shim stack in there (I wasn't going to lie). Anyway the TST2 cart is apperently 'gone' (broken). I just thought the oil had migrated and/or it'd hydrolocked.

    Anyway they wanted (UK) £180 (circa $300) to replace the cart. No way.

    They said they can't repair it, must be replaced. Thoughts?

  52. #252
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    Helps a lot! thanks

  53. #253
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    If you need a new cart sounds like a good time to pop an RC3 in there.

    A bit more to spend though...

    Quote Originally Posted by Horacek View Post
    Ok, my forks were topping out. So I sent them back to the distributor to sort. Yes I was honest that there was a shim stack in there (I wasn't going to lie). Anyway the TST2 cart is apperently 'gone' (broken). I just thought the oil had migrated and/or it'd hydrolocked.

    Anyway they wanted (UK) £180 (circa $300) to replace the cart. No way.

    They said they can't repair it, must be replaced. Thoughts?
    Likes Bikes

  54. #254
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    I recently aquired a 08-09 55 tst2 on the cheap that needed some TLC and have placed a shim stack in place of the old washers. On re-assembling the cartridge I noticed a strange issue. The compression cartridge cap that would normally thread into the top of the cartridge housing has no threads ... the outer body has threads present on the inside of the tube but I dont see any on the assembly cap. Anyone ran into this issue or is it supposed to be like that?

    I reassembled anyway, and the fluid seems to create a seal and while cycling the fork the assembly seems to stay together. I'd like to think its made that way but I feel that isn't the case. (On the positive note, the fork feels great.)

    Thanks in advance.
    Last edited by Cougar797; 04-08-2013 at 12:05 PM.

  55. #255
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    @Cougar, can you take a picture, because that sounds weird!

  56. #256
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    I looked harder again and found that the top of the cart body had sheared off and is simply attached to the upper assembly.

    Marzocchi 55 TST2 conversion to shim damping: step by step-tst2-cart.jpg

    This being said, do any of you tinkerers out there have a spare cart body laying around?

  57. #257
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    Hi guys ! I just bought a used devinci remix 2009. Came with a 44 tst2, 140 mm. I'd like to do the mod but I first contacted Rob Page at marzocchi about a few questions about this mod. He told me right away that I should not do this, I could damage the fork etc

    I've read this whole thread and on the first pages, there a few answers made my a marzocchi rep..... Wtf ?!? So is this mod safe or not ?

  58. #258
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlo489 View Post
    Hi guys ! I just bought a used devinci remix 2009. Came with a 44 tst2, 140 mm. I'd like to do the mod but I first contacted Rob Page at marzocchi about a few questions about this mod. He told me right away that I should not do this, I could damage the fork etc

    I've read this whole thread and on the first pages, there a few answers made my a marzocchi rep..... Wtf ?!? So is this mod safe or not ?
    This is a hack or unsanctioned mod so you will get no support - this is not unique to Marzocchi so don't get mad at them.

    It's a safe mod, but is very intermediate in mechanical skill/knowledge of suspension. You should have serviced your fork multiple times before you attempt. Then there is the shim configuration.

    All that said, who knows if it works for a 44 from 09?

    P

  59. #259
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    Well I've changed the oil once and attempted to open the cartridge using a tube to hold the body...anyway I'll open it and see if it matches the pictures you posted. My main problem with the fork is that when I remove the air, I can fully compress it. However, when I set it at 50 lbs, I can't seem to get the last 2 inches of travel...
    (I'm 165 lbs, and according to the manual, I should run it between 35-50 lbs)

    I was hoping this mod would solve the problem even though it's done for high speed compliance...
    Last edited by Charlo489; 04-29-2013 at 03:15 PM.

  60. #260
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlo489 View Post
    Well I've changed the oil once and attempted to open the cartridge using a tube to hold the body...anyway I'll open it and see if it matches the pictures you posted. My main problem with the fork is that when I remove the air, I can fully compress it. However, when I set it at 50 lbs, I can't seem to get the last 2 inches of travel...
    (I'm 165 lbs, and according to the manual, I should run it between 35-50 lbs)

    I was hoping this mod would solve the problem even though it's done for high speed compliance...
    If you read mid thread somewhere, you will find that by removing the whole cartridge / push rod assembly from the top and bottom of the fork, an area is exposed to get a cone wrench on the lower body allowing you to open the cart.

    Note: Heat the thread area up first with a hair dryer. This will prevent you from sheering the cart body top off just below the threads.

    Once in, its easy. Just follow the directions and reference everyones weight and shim setup in the thread to get you close on your shim stack the first time. Its a pretty easy mod. Just remeber, this stuff is delicate so be carefull.

    Also, refer to this for a very well laid out "for dummies" version of shim stack basics. (It helped me pick my stack design (went with a cross over)).
    Piston & Shim Technology ‚Äď DVO Suspension

  61. #261
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    Quote Originally Posted by Charlo489 View Post
    ...My main problem with the fork is that when I remove the air, I can fully compress it. However, when I set it at 50 lbs, I can't seem to get the last 2 inches of travel...
    Sounds like you might have too much bath oil on the spring side if it is spring + air + oil level system. If so, removing some spring side oil will make it more linear.

    P

  62. #262
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    hey, sorry to drag up an old thread but i am stuck here. i just cant get the nut off the tat cart. it must be really loctited on there good. any tips on removing it?

  63. #263
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    I used a heat gun ! Worked pretty good. Remove the o-ring first or it will melt

  64. #264
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    how hot did you need to get it?

  65. #265
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    Well i applied torque while heating it....took a good 5 min of heating before the nut came loose. You'll see some smoke eventually and that's the loctite melting !

  66. #266
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    I still would love to make a shimmed rebound piston for this damper, but sadly I don't have access to a lathe

  67. #267
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    Marzocchi 55TST2 air..No Lock off..

    I was about to dissemble the forks to modify the damoer as per your post only to find all the pictures had vanished,,can they be reinstated as it will make to job so much easier with both script & pictures..
    Thank you.
    FLANGOS...

  68. #268
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    Hi everyone,

    I have an issue with my 55 RC3 Ti EVO2 from 2013. Itís a great fork, probably the best single-crown on the market. I like the plushness and a small bumps performance, the smoothness is absolutely great.

    I ride enduro mostly but with dh style - I use this fork on technical single trails, pretty fast slopes with some jumps and harsher sections and smaller a-lines but without rock gardens from hell or huge step downs like 30ft long.

    I need a fork which will be active and not very progressive and which wonít dive when I push hard in fast corners or flying over the trails. I feel the standard setup is buttery smooth, progressive at the last 30% but eats the travel at the beginning and in the middle of the stroke pretty easily. Iíve added 3psi to the air assist and the fork starts to be more supportive but now is much more progressive and I canít use more than 14mm of travel.

    So what can I do to add some support in the middle of the stroke? Can you suggest how can I set up the shims to change the characteristic? The fork could be a bit less plush, I donít need super buttery smoothness. Iím 175lbs btw.

    Thanks for help!

  69. #269
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitr View Post
    Hi everyone,

    I have an issue with my 55 RC3 Ti EVO2 from 2013. Itís a great fork, probably the best single-crown on the market. I like the plushness and a small bumps performance, the smoothness is absolutely great.

    I ride enduro mostly but with dh style - I use this fork on technical single trails, pretty fast slopes with some jumps and harsher sections and smaller a-lines but without rock gardens from hell or huge step downs like 30ft long.

    I need a fork which will be active and not very progressive and which wonít dive when I push hard in fast corners or flying over the trails. I feel the standard setup is buttery smooth, progressive at the last 30% but eats the travel at the beginning and in the middle of the stroke pretty easily. Iíve added 3psi to the air assist and the fork starts to be more supportive but now is much more progressive and I canít use more than 14mm of travel.

    So what can I do to add some support in the middle of the stroke? Can you suggest how can I set up the shims to change the characteristic? The fork could be a bit less plush, I donít need super buttery smoothness. Iím 175lbs btw.

    Thanks for help!
    I've not worked with an RC3 yet but, you would need to look at possibly beefing up your mid valve shims. I will also add that the zocchi air assits have to be spot on pressure wise. You might fiddle with that some more as well. +/- half a pound makes a huge difference between being too soft, just right, or too firm.

    Check out this explanation of shims on DVO's website:
    Piston & Shim Technology ? DVO Suspension

    Also, if you want to go all out, look into avalanche suspension aftermarket cartridges for the 55 RC3. They have great mid stroke support and would give you arguably the best 160mm fork money can buy when matched to your RC3 chassis.

  70. #270
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cougar797 View Post
    I've not worked with an RC3 yet but, you would need to look at possibly beefing up your mid valve shims. I will also add that the zocchi air assits have to be spot on pressure wise. You might fiddle with that some more as well. +/- half a pound makes a huge difference between being too soft, just right, or too firm.

    Check out this explanation of shims on DVO's website:
    Piston & Shim Technology ? DVO Suspension

    Also, if you want to go all out, look into avalanche suspension aftermarket cartridges for the 55 RC3. They have great mid stroke support and would give you arguably the best 160mm fork money can buy when matched to your RC3 chassis.
    Thanks for suggestions. I'll play with air pressure, maybe this could help. I'll also try to lower oil volume. The key point is that with current settings (mid set compression + air assist) the mid stroke support is great but I can't use more than 140mm of travel. When I set less pressure, I can use all the travel but mid stroke starts to be a bit too soft.

    Avalanche sounds great but the price...

  71. #271
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pitr View Post
    Thanks for suggestions. I'll play with air pressure, maybe this could help. I'll also try to lower oil volume. The key point is that with current settings (mid set compression + air assist) the mid stroke support is great but I can't use more than 140mm of travel. When I set less pressure, I can use all the travel but mid stroke starts to be a bit too soft.

    Avalanche sounds great but the price...
    Yah that's the issue with zocchi's stock. Super supple but no midstroke.

    I would suggest running as much oil as possible while still being able to compress a full 160mm with 0 PSI. Then add air from that point and there is likely a happy mid point between sensitive and bottom out control.

    If it still doesn't feel right pop open the RC3 cart, find the shims, and beef up the mid stroke shims. If you want to get crazy, you can bore oil ports and just add heavier shine but that's getting crazy. (I did it with an old dorado I run. (Which feels bad ass )

  72. #272
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    Ok, this is what I did. When I use no air and more oil, I could use all the travel but the fork was definitelly too soft and blows the travel very easly. So I removed a few milliliters of oil from the damper side. With no air in the air assist, it was very easy to bottomed out. After that I put 7-8 pumps of air (2-3 more than before), set compression in the middle and... it works! Now I still have more mid-stroke suport and I can use more travel. Fork feels nimble and lively, doesn't dive. More information after next tests.

  73. #273
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    Awesome thread and keen to do the same to my 2008 55 TST2's but could someone tell me if the chainring spacer is necessary? And also what oil levels I need in each leg as I need to do this as well.

    Thank you.

  74. #274
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    I didn't, but my stock inflexible stack had a thick 12mm clamp shim that I re-used with my new bendy stack.

    And the oil... for the damper you'll need enough 7.5W oil to submerse the piston of the compression assembly by at least 1cm, but not much more. Don't forget to stroke the rebound a few times, so there won't be air captured under the rebound piston.

    And in the lowers: on the damper side just use 20ml for lubrication, and you can try 200ml on the spring side. If you find the travel to be too linear, you can add a little by removing the spring topcap, and pouring in there to increase progressiveness.

  75. #275
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    I didn't, but my stock inflexible stack had a thick 12mm clamp shim that I re-used with my new bendy stack.

    And the oil... for the damper you'll need enough 7.5W oil to submerse the piston of the compression assembly by at least 1cm, but not much more. Don't forget to stroke the rebound a few times, so there won't be air captured under the rebound piston.

    And in the lowers: on the damper side just use 20ml for lubrication, and you can try 200ml on the spring side. If you find the travel to be too linear, you can add a little by removing the spring topcap, and pouring in there to increase progressiveness.
    Thanks two-one.

    When you talk of adding oil to the lower do you mean adding it through the bottom of the fork so where the rebound adjustment is?

  76. #276
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    Quote Originally Posted by fury84 View Post
    Thanks two-one.

    When you talk of adding oil to the lower do you mean adding it through the bottom of the fork so where the rebound adjustment is?
    Yup, when you reassemble the fork, slide the uppers into the lowers only partly so that the holes in the lowers are still opened, and pour in the oil. Don't forget to clean and lubricate the wiper seals with some silicone grease like slick honey... it will make it a little plusher

    What kind of shim stack will you be placing?

  77. #277
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    Yup, when you reassemble the fork, slide the uppers into the lowers only partly so that the holes in the lowers are still opened, and pour in the oil. Don't forget to clean and lubricate the wiper seals with some silicone grease like slick honey... it will make it a little plusher

    What kind of shim stack will you be placing?
    And that's only for the damper side, right? Just add oil from the top the spring?

    For shims I was thinking 18, 17, 16, 14 and 12, all .10 thick. TBH I'm just copying what appeared to be a popular set-up, I don't really under forks well enough to know what tweaks will make what differences. That said, I am practically minded which is why I'm keen to service/mod my own forks.

  78. #278
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    Quote Originally Posted by fury84 View Post
    And that's only for the damper side, right? Just add oil from the top the spring?
    Sure, either way works for the spring side.

    I'm currently running the following stack:

    12mm clamp shim
    12 x 0.10
    14 x 0.10
    16 x 0.10
    18 x 0.10
    20 x 0.10
    20 x 0.25 ring shim, with 16 x 0.10 centering shim
    20 x 0.10
    20 x 0.10
    Main compression piston

    So that's much stiffer stack, but it allows some pretty varied settings, with a climbing platform when set to lock-out.

  79. #279
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    And in yours the clamp shim was already a clamp holding the existing shims in place? Thanks for all the pointer btw, do appreciate the help.

  80. #280
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    Having damaged my forks on a ride recently I searched the net for guidance and found this mod which I decided to do whilst the forks were stripped down. Having stripped the forks I discovered the cartridge had sheered at the bottom of the threaded section where itís thinnest.
    Now to find a new cartridge!!!!


  81. #281
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    I may have a spare cartridge in the parts box somewhere; you'd need to use your damper components, though. If you're interested send me a PM and I'll confirm it's compatible with yours. :-)

  82. #282
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    Quote Originally Posted by Stevo the Devo View Post
    I may have a spare cartridge in the parts box somewhere; you'd need to use your damper components, though. If you're interested send me a PM and I'll confirm it's compatible with yours. :-)
    Very kind of you Steve, PM sent!

  83. #283
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    Some time ago I bought a load of shims from mx-tech.com but never got around to doing this mod and sold the forks. The shims themselves cost a little over $10 but the shipping was very expensive. If anyone in the UK is interested in the following shims for £10 posted, PM me.

    08 ID x 20 OD x .10 mm (QTY 3)
    08 ID x 18 OD x .10 mm (QTY 1)
    08 ID x 17 OD x .10 mm (QTY 1)
    08 ID x 16 OD x .10 mm (QTY 2)
    08 ID x 14 OD x .10 mm (QTY 1)
    08 ID x 12 OD x .10 mm (QTY 1)
    08 ID x 20 OD x .25 mm (QTY 1)

    This gives you the options to create the popular shim stacks as discussed throughout this thread.

  84. #284
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    Sure, either way works for the spring side.

    I'm currently running the following stack:

    12mm clamp shim
    12 x 0.10
    14 x 0.10
    16 x 0.10
    18 x 0.10
    20 x 0.10
    20 x 0.25 ring shim, with 16 x 0.10 centering shim
    20 x 0.10
    20 x 0.10
    Main compression piston

    So that's much stiffer stack, but it allows some pretty varied settings, with a climbing platform when set to lock-out.
    I know this is an OLD thread, but I have a bike I bought used with a 2010 Marz TST2 and I would like to get some mid stroke resistance as my fork really dives after initial resistance. I've tried various pressures without much sucess and now am going to do the conversion. My question is about the sizes and scraping. At the start of the thread Mr.P said:

    8) Bye bye thick unflexing washers. Hello flexy goodness shims and spacer! Welcome speed sensitive damping! Right now it is a pyramid stack 17mm, 16mm, 16mm, 15mm, 13mm. All (I think) .010 thick except for the 13mm which is .005 thick. 18mm scraped the side of the cartridge. (all 8mm ID).

    I was wondering if I can use 18 and 20 mm shims. I have read DVO's shim stack explanations.
    Thanks if anyone reads this!!!
    Last edited by zbird; 10-20-2015 at 05:14 PM.

  85. #285
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    Quote Originally Posted by zbird View Post
    I was wondering if I can use 18 and 20 mm shims. I have read DVO's shim stack explanations.
    Thanks if anyone reads this!!!
    A simple stack of 20mm shims are actually fine. The only reason to go for a pyramid stack is shim durability, because the multiple diameters cause a variation of bending points, distributing the stress. But this is most relevant on rear shocks where oil flow and forces are much larger.

    If you only have 20 and 18mm shims of 0.1mm thickness, I would probably choose a stack of 6 of them.

    But do remember, the shimstack mod actually softens the damping, but allows you to close the adjuster.

  86. #286
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    Hey thanks two-one. Sorry I didn't word my question very well.
    I want to stiffen the midstroke as it is way too soft there but it is perfect in the beginning and at the bottom. My understanding is I need to go with the largest shims possible (I saw that Mr. P got scraping above 17mm and you didn't) going down in a pyramid shim stack to get a more continuous curve of dampening, along with oil levels, oil weight, and air pressure adjustments.

  87. #287
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    I dont know what mr P did, but 20mm shims fit fine.
    The damping profile between pyramid or straight stack is practically the same. I don't believe in "highspeed and lowspeed shims", because it functions as a single 3dimensional leaf-spring.
    So you want to increase "midstroke support"... how supportive does the fork currently feel when you turn the compression knob halfway closed? And how much pressure+sag do you run?

  88. #288
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    Interesting concept of it being a 3d leafspring--years ago we use to play with length and thickness of the leafs(and even teflon strips in between) to get the right ride on our Jeeps when we use to go offroad in Baja California. The compression knob feels like it affects mostly the initial dampening but still has midstroke dive. I have tried increments between 22 to 60 psi( I weigh 200 with a pack).

    A friend had the same fork and he changed to 2.5 wt.oil which for him worked. I am going to check the oil levels anyway and I thought I might as well change to a flexible pyramid stack. So I guess the variables are stack(slight?), air pressure, cmp. knob, oil level, and oil weight?

  89. #289
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    Well I changed from the 4 thick washers to the pyramid flexible shim stack, played around with various sizes and came up with
    08 mm ID x 17 mm OD x .15 mm x2
    08 mm ID x 16 mm OD x .15 mm x2
    08 mm ID x 15 mm OD x .10 mm x2
    08 mm ID x 14 mm OD x .10 mm x1
    08 mm ID x 13 mm OD x .10 mm x1
    08 mm ID x 12 mm OD x .10 mm x2
    08 mm ID x 11 mm OD x .30 mm x1
    with an 08mm x 10 x .30 in between shim 2 and 3 (16 and 15mm) to act as a crossover shim on advice from DVO Suspension. It got rid of the midstroke dive, compression is now predictable, feels great for small bumps and plush on slow speed compression. In fact I now hardly even think about the fork as it now does it's job right. Almost feels like some of the high end forks I got to ride when I use to work at a high end mt. bike rental store. I rode many Specialized, Giants, Turners, Ibis, Kona. We could use any non-rented bike on our days off--rode the Tahoe Rim Trail so many times

  90. #290
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    Its so weird marz didnt shim these from the factory.

    Is the rebound damper on those forks a proper shimmed damper? Does it work comparably well to a RS shimmed damper?

    Its this or a lyrik. I want a 160mm fork, but with a straight steer tube.

  91. #291
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Its so weird marz didnt shim these from the factory.

    Is the rebound damper on those forks a proper shimmed damper? Does it work comparably well to a RS shimmed damper?

    Its this or a lyrik. I want a 160mm fork, but with a straight steer tube.
    Just 4 basic washers that don't flex. For many people they seemed to work well enough with the correct air pressure. On my particular fork I wondered if they were out of spec when they were built due to a 4 inch "diving" between 1 and 5 inches of travel during big hits.
    The whole procedure really wasn't that difficult, I just followed the previous instructions.
    I really couldn't say which I would prefer between the RS Lyrik and this--just that now with the damper mod, I like it a lot! I guess it depends on the price, how used it is and what features you really need. I just never use lockout up front on my bike (a 2007 Turner RFX) but I notice that is dependent on you and the bikes geometry as some of the rental bikes I rode I had to use the lockout for climbing.

  92. #292
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    Quote Originally Posted by One Pivot View Post
    Is the rebound damper on those forks a proper shimmed damper? Does it work comparably well to a RS shimmed damper?

    Its this or a lyrik. I want a 160mm fork, but with a straight steer tube.
    The rebound side is just a simple port-orifice damper.

    The only way to get shimmed rebound damping is by creating your own piston... which I did

    Marzocchi 55 TST2 conversion to shim damping: step by step-portable.jpg
    The upper piston is the original, and the lower one is a custom design with the rebound shims to the right.
    Left is the checkvalve with a custom wave-spring

  93. #293
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    Quote Originally Posted by two-one View Post
    The rebound side is just a simple port-orifice damper.

    The only way to get shimmed rebound damping is by creating your own piston... which I did

    Click image for larger version. 

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    The upper piston is the original, and the lower one is a custom design with the rebound shims to the right.
    Left is the checkvalve with a custom wave-spring
    Looks wild with the triangular cutouts and some "chamfering" there! Seems like your small bump compliance would be really nice now

  94. #294
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    seems like people here know this fork a lot better than my lbs who weren't much help. just got a bike with the '09 55 ata with tst2. problem i'm having is really harsh top out. wondering if this might be fixed with the shim mod or if it's more of an oil level issue (or maybe that's the way the fork is?) my lockout doesn't seem to do anything as far as i can tell. ATA still works fine. any ideas of where to start?

  95. #295
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    Quote Originally Posted by jeremysbrown View Post
    seems like people here know this fork a lot better than my lbs who weren't much help. just got a bike with the '09 55 ata with tst2. problem i'm having is really harsh top out. wondering if this might be fixed with the shim mod or if it's more of an oil level issue (or maybe that's the way the fork is?) my lockout doesn't seem to do anything as far as i can tell. ATA still works fine. any ideas of where to start?
    I am only a beginner with mtb fork tech and I have a 2010 TST2. I am not sure of the differences between the years. But I guess you could start by clarifying what you mean by a "harsh top out" though that sounds to me to be your rebound adjustment located at the bottom of the forks.

    For me this fork really changes with the wrong oil level and especially the air pressure and it is a low pressure shock (22-52 psi according to a 2010 manual).

    There is a bleed procedure explained TST2 Bleed alternative w/pics if you want to start there. And on my fork if my air pressure drops below 44 psi it becomes quickly way too soft. I did do the shim conversion and along with more oil and the correct air pressure it fixed my mid stroke dropout problem and made small bump compliance better. It probably took me 2 hours once I found the right socket. I believe you can still get that year's fork manual online if you don't have one.

    Hopefully two-one still reads this thread as he seems to really know the fork and understands hydraulic fork technology way better than I.

    Hope this helps a bit!

    Jeff
    Last edited by zbird; 07-17-2016 at 12:35 PM.

  96. #296
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    Well I changed from the 4 thick washers to the pyramid flexible shim stack, played around with various sizes and came up with
    08 mm ID x 17 mm OD x .15 mm x2
    08 mm ID x 16 mm OD x .15 mm x2
    08 mm ID x 15 mm OD x .10 mm x2
    08 mm ID x 14 mm OD x .10 mm x1
    08 mm ID x 13 mm OD x .10 mm x1
    08 mm ID x 12 mm OD x .10 mm x2
    08 mm ID x 11 mm OD x .30 mm x1
    with an 08mm x 10 x .30 in between shim 2 and 3 (16 and 15mm) to act as a crossover shim on advice from DVO Suspension. It got rid of the midstroke dive, compression is now predictable, feels great for small bumps and plush on slow speed compression. In fact I now hardly even think about the fork as it now does it's job right. Almost feels like some of the high end forks I got to ride when I use to work at a high end mt. bike rental store. I rode many Specialized, Giants, Turners, Ibis, Kona. We could use any non-rented bike on our days off--rode the Tahoe Rim Trail so many times
    Oh man, I have same problem - if I had correct sag and plush feeling then I had no support in mid stroke, so I pump my fork up to 130 psi just to keep it high and suportive when I ride hard (Im around <80 kg when geared up).

    Where did you get your washers? I have hard times here in Lithuania, and shipping from USA cost 40$ .. when washers cost only 10$

  97. #297
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    Hi Henry,

    Now with more reading and talking with folks I think my problem was the combination of slightly low oil level on the damper side, stiction at the seals, the stock 4 washers that are not flexible, and running too low of air pressure to make the fork plusher. I now always flip the bike upside down and cycle the forks a few times before riding and that seems to take care of the stiction.

    I bought my shims from MX Tech Shop - Valving Shims - 8 mm ID 1 - MX-Tech

    You could also try Suspension Direct 3. 8mm ID Shims - Shim Parts | Suspension Direct, Inc.

    For new seals: 35MM BOMBER SEAL KIT

    Also be aware that if you do change fork oil, that fork oils list viscosity at 100 C. As mountain bikers we may get 40 -45 C in the fork and viscosities can be quite different at that temp. See this chart:
    http://i41.tinypic.com/25qpx81.png

    There must be some European motorcycle shop that has suspension shims but I couldn't find one.

    Hope this helps

  98. #298
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    Hi guys, another tip is the usage of Molykote 55 grease (or slick honey or something similar) in the seals... if you pack the various edges and cavities, the plushness will be greatly increased.

    Whenever I see people on unmodified Marz55's in a bikepark, I always feel sorry for them....

    Tinker on!

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