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  1. #1
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    Manitou Tower Pro 2012 coil spring

    Do 2012 models come with medium or firm coils?

    I find contradicting information on their website:
    Tower | Manitou

    and in this interview:
    http://twentynineinches.com/2012/06/...tou-tower-pro/

  2. #2
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    Manitou rarely updates their website. All indications say all towers and the minute pro 140 now come with a firm spring

  3. #3
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    Thanks! Have you got an idea of the suggested weights for the different coil rates?

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    I don't have a Mars spring fork, so I am not sure. Everything I have read seems to point to Mars springs being on the soft side for what they are rated. Firm seems to be what is needed for 180#ish riders and x firm for 200#ish. Thats why they are making and xxfirm spring. Thats all based on hearsay though since I have no personal experience.

  5. #5
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    OK, thanks again. I didn't manage to find any doc on their website on this topic, so hearsay is the best source currently available :-)

    BTW I'm only 155 geared and don't find the (supposedly) firm coil in my 2012 Tower Pro harsh at all--to the contrary, it feels pretty soft.. This perhaps because it's a 29er fork

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    I weigh 190lb and ran the x-firm coil. I still found the overall spring rate way too linear for my taste. I prefer the ACT spring over the MAR's anyday.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    I weigh 190lb and ran the x-firm coil. I still found the overall spring rate way too linear for my taste. I prefer the ACT spring over the MAR's anyday.
    I agree with you, but did you try adding a few cc's of oil to the top of the air spring piston? That should solve your problem.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I agree with you, but did you try adding a few cc's of oil to the top of the air spring piston? That should solve your problem.
    I added enough oil to start limiting the travel & the fork still felt way linear. I'll tell you what made a difference but I didn't want to fiddle / modify any further - I installed a coil spring between the floating air piston and the top cap & viola fork felt much improved. I didn't feel like fabricating spring seats, dealing w/ the floating piston etc. ACT was the answer.

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    I added enough oil to start limiting the travel & the fork still felt way linear. I'll tell you what made a difference but I didn't want to fiddle / modify any further - I installed a coil spring between the floating air piston and the top cap & viola fork felt much improved. I didn't feel like fabricating spring seats, dealing w/ the floating piston etc. ACT was the answer.
    I agree. I think ACT is the perfect spring system. I think MARS is a good idea in theory, but is overly complicated and confusing. Manitou would be smart up just do away with it. And produce a damn 160mm fork!

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    I weigh 190lb and ran the x-firm coil. I still found the overall spring rate way too linear for my taste. I prefer the ACT spring over the MAR's anyday.
    Do you mean linear as force versus displacement?

    Aren't coil springs supposed to be more linear (F=k*x) than air springs?

    When you are getting near to max travel, air should compress more and more, and so the air spring should lose its linearity.

  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I agree. I think ACT is the perfect spring system. I think MARS is a good idea in theory, but is overly complicated and confusing. Manitou would be smart up just do away with it. And produce a damn 160mm fork!
    I don't know. I have both, and feel MARS spring is way more active. MARS exploits more travel even when dealing with small to mid bumps. On big hits I haven't bottomed out yet, though, so it seems to manage well all trail conditions.

    The only drawback I have slightly more brake dive, but I think I'll solve this with a proper tuning. For now, I've added 10 psi of air.

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    I don't know. I have both, and feel MARS spring is way more active. MARS exploits more travel even when dealing with small to mid bumps. On big hits I haven't bottomed out yet, though, so it seems to manage well all trail conditions.

    The only drawback I have slightly more brake dive, but I think I'll solve this with a proper tuning. For now, I've added 10 psi of air.
    You described the MARS action to a T."Way more active", "exploits more travel", and "brake dive" everything I cannot stand in a front suspension. A coil spring is linear and offers more support than the air spring that has to ramp up to spring rate. The MAR's system rides like it has a very large air volume. I think the floating air piston intensifies this action. Some riders like the MAR's system though most seem to have to fiddle (compromise) to get a descent tune.

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    But "being more active" implies less discomfort.

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    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    But "being more active" implies less discomfort.
    Having an active suspension in itself is ok but when you combine way active, uses more travel and has brake dive that equates to issues for my riding style. I'd prefer a fork that offers good small bump performance w/o brake dive, that rides higher in its travel w/ bottomout control all attributes of my ACT fork . "Discomfort" sounds like a term I'd use to describe a fork I used for commuting and didn't want road irregularities transmitted thru my hands / arms. I want my suspension to offer a wide range of control from small trail irregularities to large @ fast & slow speeds.

  15. #15
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    Probably it was the stock coil of my Minute Expert, but with act air I rarely managed to use all 100 mm available. So to me it was the Expert not enough active, not the Pro being too much active.

    I had brake dive with the Expert too, but I had worse small bump performance nevertheless. With Pro brake dive is slightly worse currently, but all other features are better.

    And I haven't started to try and tune it. I'm confident I can mitigate the brake dive issue.

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    Quote Originally Posted by keen View Post
    Having an active suspension in itself is ok but when you combine way active, uses more travel and has brake dive that equates to issues for my riding style. I'd prefer a fork that offers good small bump performance w/o brake dive, that rides higher in its travel w/ bottomout control all attributes of my ACT fork . "Discomfort" sounds like a term I'd use to describe a fork I used for commuting and didn't want road irregularities transmitted thru my hands / arms. I want my suspension to offer a wide range of control from small trail irregularities to large @ fast & slow speeds.
    Brake dive should be controlled by compression damping, not spring rates. The Manitou forks with the Absolute + are very tuneable. If you are having problems with brake dive, the best solution is to tune the damper stack. Manitou also has great customer and can help with suggestions on shim stack tuning and providing appropriate shims.

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    Quote Originally Posted by barrows View Post
    Brake dive should be controlled by compression damping, not spring rates. The Manitou forks with the Absolute + are very tuneable. If you are having problems with brake dive, the best solution is to tune the damper stack. Manitou also has great customer and can help with suggestions on shim stack tuning and providing appropriate shims.
    I am not having brake dive problems may the OP is ???

  18. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    Do 2012 models come with medium or firm coils?

    I find contradicting information on their website:
    Tower | Manitou

    and in this interview:
    The Engineer Speaks: 2012 Manitou Tower Pro
    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    I didn't manage to find any doc on their website on this topic, so hearsay is the best source currently available :-)
    If you have a problem or an inquiry about one of their products then contact them, they are quick to reply to emails and they can be very helpful.

    http://www.hayescomponents.com/contact-us/
    or
    techsupport@hayesbicycle.com


    Example: My experience with Manitou customer service.

  19. #19
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    2012 Tower's should all have Firm springs. Manitou's CS checked my serial # on their database, and told me I actually have a Firm. Should be right for my 155 lbs.

    Started testing at 80 psi. Abs+ at max-4. Mid rebound damping.

    No significant brake dive on the trail. Only when braking very hard on very steep descents, where I get 50-60% of sag.

    I also use less travel on average now. Today I didn't use all travel, although I didn't hit really big hits.

    Nice thing I have no bobbing (unless I pedal standing up on pedals), and when I enter rocky sections the fork opens up.

    Just a preliminary test thought. Next time I'll repeat the same descent many times, using several air pressures to better notice the differences in feel.

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by solitone View Post
    2012 Tower's should all have Firm springs. Manitou's CS checked my serial # on their database, and told me I actually have a Firm. Should be right for my 155 lbs.

    .
    The fact that a firm coil is needed for a 155lb rider leaves me scratching my head. Who would use a medium spring then? 100lb rider? seems like they need to rename their springs.

  21. #21
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    As far as I understand, the firm spring feels firm with the Minute, but not with the Tower. They confirmed me that, in contrast to Tower's, Minute's come with medium springs as standard.

    I imagine medium, firm, etc. refer to spring rates. For some reason a medium rate feels soft on a 29er fork (?)

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