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Thread: Manitou Mattoc

  1. #2351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Manitou oil heights are from the top of the crown.

    Simple check for your correct oil height. Pull the lowers off and see if you can compress the shaft fully by hand. If you can't then it's wrong.
    When i opened it, after it had not long been back from the service centre, with a brand new damper isntalled, after i broke the last one, it was like 90mm from the crown, a clear oil.

    hmmmm


    In other news, a very very very wet and muddy weekend over, i got some decent but disgusting riding in. I achieved what i think was a full 160mm on one drop where the take off was soo muddy i was not in the right position and nearly went over the bars. so not too worried anymore about travel, more about having too little oil in!! wtf!!

    I had to send my fork back under warranty to get anew damper after my rod snapped, CRC in northern ireland, who are a manitou service centre, installed a new one and did the oil heights etc.

  2. #2352
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    Gents, had a few questions for the group... What kind of tire clearance do you guys have with these forks? I'm looking to run maxxis minions 26x2.8 (so roughly 2.6 wide in the real world) and wondered if they will fit?

    Second, is the only difference between the pro and the pro 2 the iva? I couldn't find anything else from reviews or their website...

  3. #2353
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    So I recently got a Mattoc Expert from CRC for my sons new Rune.
    Its only got 4 clicks on the rebound so I've contacted Manitou for the update on that and they have promised to send it out to me.
    BUT
    It seems to have come with the IVA which I thought I was going to have to purchase separately- Bonus
    Anyone else seen this?

  4. #2354
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    I can't say for certain, however 26x2.8 should fit quite easily. Plenty of clearance for 27.5x2.6 (measuring a true 2.5") and the main concern is the tyre height, so 26" tyres should be fine. The only issue I can think of is whether the smaller diameter makes the tread line up poorly with the buldges in the lowers.

  5. #2355
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Like Dirt View Post
    So I recently got a Mattoc Expert from CRC for my sons new Rune.
    Its only got 4 clicks on the rebound so I've contacted Manitou for the update on that and they have promised to send it out to me.
    I thought the Expert only had four clicks and the Pro nine?

  6. #2356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notched View Post
    I thought the Expert only had four clicks and the Pro nine?
    They updated the expert rebound for more clicks at some point.

  7. #2357
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    I can't say for certain, however 26x2.8 should fit quite easily. Plenty of clearance for 27.5x2.6 (measuring a true 2.5") and the main concern is the tyre height, so 26" tyres should be fine. The only issue I can think of is whether the smaller diameter makes the tread line up poorly with the buldges in the lowers.
    Cool, thanks! I'll have to pick one up.

  8. #2358
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    Just a quick one. 7ml or 15ml of fox gold semi-bath in each leg of the lowers?


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  9. #2359
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    Just a quick one. 7ml or 15ml of fox gold semi-bath in each leg of the lowers?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I use 10ml and have had no issues with oil getting sucked into the damper. Wouldn't go any higher th an that though.

  10. #2360
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    Manitou Mattoc

    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I use 10ml and have had no issues with oil getting sucked into the damper. Wouldn't go any higher th an that though.
    Thanks mate, i chucked in 10ml.

    So i pulled my new for apart to do the wheel size conversion, again( I bought a a mattoc about a month ago from bikewagon for a ht build and liked it so much i replaced the bike on my dually)

    The high speed compression dial doesn't have the full range of clicks (only 4 it is supposed to have 5) and becomes quite hard to move at either end of it's limit. This is not an issue on my other mattoc.

    I have checked the 13mm washer and also the screw in the hbo adjuster to make sure the weren't over tightened. They were all good, in fact without either done up it is still laboured movement.

    This leads me to believe it might have too much oil in the damper. Am i right in thinking this? I was careful checking the height but the fork or syringe may have been on a slight angle.

    The only thing i did differently when converting wheel sizes was not to ball up a rag and stuff it in the too of the staunchion for rebuilding. (It ended with oil everywhere last time...)

    I just put the air spring in place then filled the damper, cycled the rebound and installed the damper then put semi bath in the lowers and snug it up.

    Has anyone else experienced this? Should i re check the oil? Is it critical to complete the steps in the exact order shown on the manitou wheel conversion video?

    Sorry about the essay

  11. #2361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Check where the tail of the coil is. If it's on the ledge it should stay. But if it's hanging off the side then it'll likely lead the whole coil to follow a bit at a time.
    Hi Dougal, you were absolutely right. The coil was a mess!
    I hope it will stay in place, Im afraid the ledge is pretty small
    Thanks a lot!
    Manitou Mattoc-p_20170320_215110.jpg
    Manitou Mattoc-p_20170320_215135.jpg
    Manitou Mattoc-p_20170320_215327.jpg

  12. #2362
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    Hey guys,

    Just received my Mattoc 2 Pro. Been running the original Mattoc for almost 2 years and the 2 went on sale on CRC so bought the bullet for the updates..and Colour change.
    Anyway, I'm rather used to servicing my old one, so decided to service the new one when it arrived to check lube levels/etc.
    Upon putting all back together i noticed the rebound know would not turn at all...
    Even if I use a 5mm socket to grip it...not luck.
    I cannot for the life of me remember whether it turned before the tear down and I am 99% certain it wasn't something I did as have done the same thing many times on the old one.
    So my questions...what may have cause it, anyone had anything similar and lastly...any ideas on how to fix it.

    Shot for the help and looking forward to riding the new one

  13. #2363
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    Hi Dougal,

    As you tune manitou stuff regularly could you please post some pics of proper modified comoression and rebound shimstacks?
    Would a 2 stage compression stack do any good and what effect would a proper Pyramide stack have?
    How does midvalve on the rebound stack look?
    What stack should I do to get a even better Tradition between lsc and hsc to save my forearms from tiring on long days?
    Some pictures would be much appreciated.
    Thanks very much :-)

  14. #2364
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    Anyone experienced any harsh top out on their mattoc? Is there a simple fix?


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  15. #2365
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    Manitou Mattoc

    Quote Originally Posted by J: View Post
    Anyone know the width measurement @ the inner arch bulge there (roughly)...or height measurement from top of axle to arch?? Trying to get an idea for rim width / tire height clearance. Smaller side knobs will be used w/ the wider 559 rimz installed. TIA
    Quote Originally Posted by patrick2cents View Post
    Gents, had a few questions for the group... What kind of tire clearance do you guys have with these forks?
    Measured clearances from TOP of axle (add 7.5mm for the 15mm axle)

    Axle to arch ~ 355mm
    Axle to bulge ~ 299mm
    Bulge to bulge ~ 73mm
    ...

  16. #2366
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    Harsh top out on dorado air is usually caused by the fork being over extended(shock pump was removed with the top out bumper compressed)
    Try compressing the fork with a pump attached then extending it until you feel contact with the top out bumper.

  17. #2367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sectornaut View Post
    Harsh top out on dorado air is usually caused by the fork being over extended(shock pump was removed with the top out bumper compressed)
    Try compressing the fork with a pump attached then extending it until you feel contact with the top out bumper.
    Top out is caused by the negative air chamber not filling or pressurising properly.

    Check valve rod protrusion (1.3mm is my magic number) and try a different pump if that checks out.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  18. #2368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Top out is caused by the negative air chamber not filling or pressurising properly.

    Check valve rod protrusion (1.3mm is my magic number) and try a different pump if that checks out.
    Poppet valve was all good dougal, i checked with the shock pump attached as you suggested and it cycles through travel easily. Seems to be all sorted now, will see how it holds up on a proper ride. Thanks a bunch for your help via shockcraft. Legend.

  19. #2369
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    I am trying to decide between upgrading my xfusion sweep with the roughcut hsc or buy an used mattoc with IRT. I like how most of the mattocs adjustments have only 5 clicks, the simpler the better for me. I also just got a McLeod on the rear. lHas anyone ridden both and have a comparison?

  20. #2370
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    Why do i need the HBO Bumper...?........I'm an aggressive rider. We have rocky terrain here but not alot of huge hits. I've never had bottom out issues in any of my forks that some HSC couldn't handle. I would just like the fork to be a little more free at the end of the stroke.

    I'm 195 pounds.
    I run all settings wide open.
    IRT - 45/95.

    I'm only getting about 125mm of travel out of 150....

  21. #2371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Climb View Post
    Why do i need the HBO Bumper...?........I'm an aggressive rider. We have rocky terrain here but not alot of huge hits. I've never had bottom out issues in any of my forks that some HSC couldn't handle. I would just like the fork to be a little more free at the end of the stroke.

    I'm 195 pounds.
    I run all settings wide open.
    IRT - 45/95.

    I'm only getting about 125mm of travel out of 150....
    HBO only works in the last 20mm. So if you only get 125mm then the fork is stopping before HBO.

    Check your damper oil levels. The fork should be able to fully compress when you connect a pump.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  22. #2372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    HBO only works in the last 20mm. So if you only get 125mm then the fork is stopping before HBO.

    Check your damper oil levels. The fork should be able to fully compress when you connect a pump.
    Thanks, will check that. I did check the oil height over the weekend. that was my first thought also. I used one of the syringe height measured tools. I made sure height was 77mm for my PRO2.

    I actually just measured my travel from last night was 115mm. They way i rode and the trails i would have expected 135-140mm...
    Last edited by Cant Climb; 2 Weeks Ago at 08:34 AM.

  23. #2373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Climb View Post
    Thanks, will check that. I did check the oil height over the weekend. that was my first thought also. I used one of the syringe height measured tools. I made sure height was 77mm for my PRO2.

    I actually just measured my travel from last night was 115mm. They way i rode and the trails i would have expected 135-140mm...
    Yes, do what Dougal recommended. Dump out all the air, from both the main and the IRT and see if you get full travel. It should very easily get to 155mm. The last few mm come from the bumper and can be harder to get.

    Also, when you attach a pump, add some air and with the pump still attached, push the fork up and down. It should feel very spongy. That is a sign that both chambers are being filled.

    Also, you may want to back off on the IRT a bit. Try something like 50/90 or even 50/80 to start.
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  24. #2374
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    Thanks for replies. Yes, fork is getting full travel doing the test Dougal suggested.

    Rode last night, played with air pressures. I think the fork is very sensitive to air pressure. Gonna experiment next few rides, see if i can get the fork where i want it....not quite there yet.

    I wish Manitou would take the lead and dump Air springs on this type of fork.
    My 1998 X-Vert R had TPC and Ti coil springs...i'd love to go back to that.

  25. #2375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Climb View Post
    Thanks for replies. Yes, fork is getting full travel doing the test Dougal suggested.

    Rode last night, played with air pressures. I think the fork is very sensitive to air pressure. Gonna experiment next few rides, see if i can get the fork where i want it....not quite there yet.

    I wish Manitou would take the lead and dump Air springs on this type of fork.
    My 1998 X-Vert R had TPC and Ti coil springs...i'd love to go back to that.
    Actually, I find the air spring in the Mattoc to be the most similar to coils. And yes, you are right, the fork and the IRT in particular are very sensitive to air pressure. A little changes things in a big way.

    Also, don't use Prep-M on the IRT piston, it is too thin and comes off. Use slick honey.
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  26. #2376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Actually, I find the air spring in the Mattoc to be the most similar to coils. And yes, you are right, the fork and the IRT in particular are very sensitive to air pressure. A little changes things in a big way.

    Also, don't use Prep-M on the IRT piston, it is too thin and comes off. Use slick honey.
    I put that PTFE grease on the IRT seal. Is that OK.......?...I couldn't find the Prep-M anywhere....

  27. #2377
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    Back your IRT pressure right off if you're not getting full travel. It is very easy to overspring the fork with IRT.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  28. #2378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Climb View Post
    I put that PTFE grease on the IRT seal. Is that OK.......?...I couldn't find the Prep-M anywhere....
    Should be ok. Don't use prep m anyway, it was great years ago, but there are much better products that stay in place better now. Slicoleum/slick honey are the industry standard.

  29. #2379
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    My mattoc seems to have developed this weird ticking sound. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm pretty sure i read a similar tale of woe in this thread somewhere. Tried putting some loctite 290 around the steerer and crown. Ticking is still there. Might try put some between the crown and the stanchions. Pretty much looking for diy solutions if anyone has any suggestions?


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  30. #2380
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    My mattoc seems to have developed this weird ticking sound. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm pretty sure i read a similar tale of woe in this thread somewhere. Tried putting some loctite 290 around the steerer and crown. Ticking is still there. Might try put some between the crown and the stanchions. Pretty much looking for diy solutions if anyone has any suggestions?


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    To isolate a creak you need to pull the CSA out, clamp it in a stand and push/pull on each tube.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  31. #2381
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    My mattoc seems to have developed this weird ticking sound. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm pretty sure i read a similar tale of woe in this thread somewhere. Tried putting some loctite 290 around the steerer and crown. Ticking is still there. Might try put some between the crown and the stanchions. Pretty much looking for diy solutions if anyone has any suggestions?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Pull the fork from the bike and test by pushing and pulling the legs. I've sent in my 2015 Mattoc twice, its on its third CSA. Hayes has replaced it everytime for free, replaced the damper once and even updated the air-piston seal. It seems like after every bike park season, it develops that creak. But Hayes' customer service is stellar, and the damper on the Mattoc and Magnum is amazing which is why I still use their forks on my two bikes along with my wife's mountain bike.

  32. #2382
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    My mattoc seems to have developed this weird ticking sound. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm pretty sure i read a similar tale of woe in this thread somewhere. Tried putting some loctite 290 around the steerer and crown. Ticking is still there. Might try put some between the crown and the stanchions. Pretty much looking for diy solutions if anyone has any suggestions?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    Red loctite and heat then prop it up...need to do the top side before crown race goes on...let it sit over night after each application ; )
    ...

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