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Thread: Manitou Mattoc

  1. #3201
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    Quote Originally Posted by juster77 View Post
    my mattoc pro 2016 have original, what should i do to make it replace it
    https://www.manitoumtb.com/support/
    "For a warranty inquiry within the US, please contact our techsupport line at (888-686-3472) or email us at techsupport@hayesbicycle.com "

  2. #3202
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    Quote Originally Posted by juster77 View Post
    my mattoc pro 2016 have original, what should i do to make it replace it
    You have the updated version. Only the the 2014 model came with the old version.

    At this point, no one will be buying a new fork without the update. The update is now 3 years old, and all stock was updated before going out tp distributors starting late 2014. It's no longer worth wondering about.

  3. #3203
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    If anyone is on the fence about the toolkit...jesus, just buy it. I thought the cassette tool would be the hassle, but it's the ABSURD 8mm socket that's a PITA. The socket I decided to grind down is mostly air at this point.

    Tip: if you don't have a lathe or some other easy means of milling it down, a 1/4" 8mm is generally just small enough to chuck into most drills, so you can just spin it against a coarse file. Still not fast, but it's a little safer than trying to hold it in a bench grinder or something.

  4. #3204
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Tip: if you don't have a lathe or some other easy means of milling it down, a 1/4" 8mm is generally just small enough to chuck into most drills, so you can just spin it against a coarse file. Still not fast, but it's a little safer than trying to hold it in a bench grinder or something.
    I ground down my 8mm socket on a bench grinder. It was actually really easy, I put the socket on an extension rod and from there it's a piece of cake to hold and turn it against the grinding wheel. Definitely a lot easier and safer than trying to hold it against the grinder with your bare hands or vice-grips.

  5. #3205
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Tip: if you don't have a lathe or some other easy means of milling it down, a 1/4" 8mm is generally just small enough to chuck into most drills, so you can just spin it against a coarse file. Still not fast, but it's a little safer than trying to hold it in a bench grinder or something.
    I put an 8mm socket in my drill (1/2Ē chuck) and with in hand held it and had it turning at low speed. Other hand used a dremel with the basic grinding drum. Worked like a charm. Evenly ground it down and goes pretty quick.

    Iíve heard several say the split cassette tool in the kit can compress and slip. A new park FR 5.2 is deep enough to fit over the shaft.

    That leaves the 24mm socket. A standard 24mm could work but I have the $55 Park flat sockets and that has all you need for most forks.
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  6. #3206
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    I'd still probably be a little leery of the socket flying off at high speed.

    I can also report that the Park FR5.2 works brilliantly. Air valve fits right through it like it was made to do this job. Honestly not even sure why the slotted piece of shit exists (...okay, maybe don't buy the toolkit).

    Now, though, a question:

    Why would I want to put the lower legs back on to assemble the damper? I see no purpose to this. Manitou manual says install lower casting, then fill damper, then cycle damper, then final assembly.

    Aside from the PITA of having to cycle the damper against spring pressure (their method), it's also difficult to get the extension rod of the empty damper to meet up to the threads at the bottom of the fork. So, instead of fighting to get it installed, and fighting to bleed it...why not just get the damper sealed up before putting the casting back on?

  7. #3207
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    delete

    delete
    Last edited by juster77; 01-11-2018 at 12:02 AM. Reason: error

  8. #3208
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    Quote Originally Posted by ColinL View Post
    https://www.manitoumtb.com/support/
    "For a warranty inquiry within the US, please contact our techsupport line at (888-686-3472) or email us at techsupport@hayesbicycle.com "
    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    You have the updated version. Only the the 2014 model came with the old version.

    At this point, no one will be buying a new fork without the update. The update is now 3 years old, and all stock was updated before going out tp distributors starting late 2014. It's no longer worth wondering about.
    I disassembled the piston and I still have the old. I think my fork was part of old inventories, not updated. I contacted an assistance center here in Italy and they make me a free upgrade

  9. #3209
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    ok

    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    I just ordered mine through my LBS. BTI stocks them, which means just about any bike shop in the country should be able to get them for you. I didn't ask the price but i bet it's about $30.

    Here's the PN:
    item # model description in stock?
    AP-8547 Mattoc and Magnum (34mm) low friction dust seal kit YES


    There is also a set on ebay if you search for "mattoc seals" and it specifies that it's the low-friction variety.

    Edit: Just picked them up for $28 including tax and a 10% discount through my LBS.
    Thanks i'bought the Racingbros Lycan seals
    Last edited by juster77; 01-11-2018 at 12:05 AM. Reason: wrong quote

  10. #3210
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    I finally found some time again to work on the forks. I tried to pull out the compression assembly on my wifes Mattoc to redo the shimstack. To my surprise only the top half and a blue shaft came out, bottom part stayed in. See image.



    Probably both sides separated because I didn't torque it correctly the first time I messed around with the shimstack. I can put the blue shaft in but it feels like I can't torque it up as it feels like the bottom side is turning along. I'm afraid I have to open up the thing completely again to push it out from the bottom (or to be to able reach some sort of bottom nut to keep it from turning).

    Any suggestions?
    Last edited by CS645; 01-15-2018 at 02:42 AM.

  11. #3211
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    Quote Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    I finally found some time again to work on the forks. I tried to pull out the compression assembly on my wifes Mattoc to redo the shimstack. To my surprise only the top half and a blue shaft came out, bottom part stayed in. See image.



    Probably both sides separated because I didn't torque it correctly the first time I messed around with the shimstack. I can put the blue shaft in but it feels like I can't torque it up as it feels like the bottom side is turning along. I'm afraid I have to open up the thing completely again to push it out from the bottom (or to be to reach some sort of bottom nut to keep it from turning).

    Any suggestions?

    That's not good. I would try to get the threads to engage with the top cap as much as possible and try to pull it out. If that doesn't work, you will have to do like you said and pull the fork apart and push it from the bottom

  12. #3212
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    Thanks, sigh...


    Any pointers on the require torque on the compression assembly to prevent the same thing from happening next time? I think I torqued it 3-5Nm the last time.

  13. #3213
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    Quote Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    Thanks, sigh...


    Any pointers on the require torque on the compression assembly to prevent the same thing from happening next time? I think I torqued it 3-5Nm the last time.
    A little loctite 243 to keep it from unscrewing will do wonders. Many fork manufactures call for it when reassembling the dampers.


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  14. #3214
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    A little loctite 243 to keep it from unscrewing will do wonders. Many fork manufactures call for it when reassembling the dampers.
    Ok thanks.


    BTW, using a flute cleaning tool where you can wrap the lint free rag around is a susperior tool in my view to the mechanical grabber from the Manitou video. It's stiff and because you can easily wrap it there is no risk of scrating the inside of the stanchions.

    https://images.duckduckgo.com/iu/?u=...b-font.jpg&f=1
    Last edited by CS645; 01-15-2018 at 02:41 AM.

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    What's the goal with shim stack tweaks? I messed around with it when I was trying to make a Pike RC not suck (...didn't work), but given the functionality of the Mattoc with it's three legit damper adjustments (and IRT), what is anyone looking to gain by modding the shim stack?

    I'm not saying anyone shouldn't- I'm just legit saying that I don't know, and I'm wondering if it's something that would be worth getting into. I'm pretty hardcore into tweaking my stuff, but I've gradually learned to try to leave things alone if I'm not sure what I'm trying to accomplish, lol.

    I'm always down for an improvement. The big thing for me was just getting the adjusters to feel usable...between the new oil/dust seals and a switch to Maxima 3wt, I think I'm really in the butter zone now.

    At ~185lbs (84kg), I was running about 50psi, with the rebound and HSC all the way open. It was a fairly smooth ride, but still seemed like it could be better on small bump, and I felt like the fork wasn't doing as much as it could when I really got into some faster downhill chunk.

    Dropped in IRT and switched to about 40/75psi. Already felt a little smoother, even though the weather was cold, which has always stiffened this fork substantially. Small bump a tiny bit better and I was now using all the travel.

    Have yet to go for a real ride after the new seals and oil change, but initial impressions are that my damping with rebound and HSC a couple clicks in is similar to what it used to be wide open. Fork feels overall more responsive, though stiction was never really an issue before (stock seals were probably as good as the Pike with SKF seals, which were way better than stock RS seals).

    I still can't figure out what the hell to do with the LSC knob, though. I never can decide where I want it...almost have to use it like a climb/descend switch (i.e. go all the way CW or CCW) to really feel a difference, and it's still a bit 'meh'...fork is still a bit soft for climbing (a tradeoff I gladly accept for comfort) yet I feel like going full-soft on descent sacrifices control. (edit to clarify: full LSC doesn't do much and zero LSC is too wallowy, so I generally just run it in the middle and try not to overthink it)

  16. #3216
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    I still can't figure out what the hell to do with the LSC knob, though. I never can decide where I want it...almost have to use it like a climb/descend switch (i.e. go all the way CW or CCW) to really feel a difference, and it's still a bit 'meh'...fork is still a bit soft for climbing (a tradeoff I gladly accept for comfort) yet I feel like going full-soft on descent sacrifices control. (edit to clarify: full LSC doesn't do much and zero LSC is too wallowy, so I generally just run it in the middle and try not to overthink it)
    Vorsprung Suspension's tech videos might have an answer for you.

    Episode 5 explains how low & high speed compression adjustments work and how they interact with each other.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JEBNlHXUGdE

    Episode 6 expands on those concepts and goes into how they affect ride characteristics. It also explains setup procedures and what shim stack tunes are for.
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E7veBt1Maj8

    I'd recommend watching the entire video series, Steve does a really good job of explaining how suspension works and once you digest all the info you'll be better at making your suspension work the way you want it to.

  17. #3217
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    What's the goal with shim stack tweaks? I messed around with it when I was trying to make a Pike RC not suck (...didn't work), but given the functionality of the Mattoc with it's three legit damper adjustments (and IRT), what is anyone looking to gain by modding the shim stack?

    I'm not saying anyone shouldn't- I'm just legit saying that I don't know, and I'm wondering if it's something that would be worth getting into. I'm pretty hardcore into tweaking my stuff, but I've gradually learned to try to leave things alone if I'm not sure what I'm trying to accomplish, lol.

    I'm always down for an improvement. The big thing for me was just getting the adjusters to feel usable...between the new oil/dust seals and a switch to Maxima 3wt, I think I'm really in the butter zone now.

    At ~185lbs (84kg), I was running about 50psi, with the rebound and HSC all the way open. It was a fairly smooth ride, but still seemed like it could be better on small bump, and I felt like the fork wasn't doing as much as it could when I really got into some faster downhill chunk.

    Dropped in IRT and switched to about 40/75psi. Already felt a little smoother, even though the weather was cold, which has always stiffened this fork substantially. Small bump a tiny bit better and I was now using all the travel.

    Have yet to go for a real ride after the new seals and oil change, but initial impressions are that my damping with rebound and HSC a couple clicks in is similar to what it used to be wide open. Fork feels overall more responsive, though stiction was never really an issue before (stock seals were probably as good as the Pike with SKF seals, which were way better than stock RS seals).

    I still can't figure out what the hell to do with the LSC knob, though. I never can decide where I want it...almost have to use it like a climb/descend switch (i.e. go all the way CW or CCW) to really feel a difference, and it's still a bit 'meh'...fork is still a bit soft for climbing (a tradeoff I gladly accept for comfort) yet I feel like going full-soft on descent sacrifices control. (edit to clarify: full LSC doesn't do much and zero LSC is too wallowy, so I generally just run it in the middle and try not to overthink it)
    The right shim stack will let you run with the LSC closed. Then you can use the HSC to move the whole damping curve upwards on demand.

    The compression stack is a fairly complicated one to tune as you have two layers of shims. The lower stack that is always active and the upper stack which can be preloaded by the HSC dials.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  18. #3218
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    What's the goal with shim stack tweaks? I messed around with it when I was trying to make a Pike RC not suck (...didn't work), but given the functionality of the Mattoc with it's three legit damper adjustments (and IRT), what is anyone looking to gain by modding the shim stack?

    I'm not saying anyone shouldn't- I'm just legit saying that I don't know, and I'm wondering if it's something that would be worth getting into. I'm pretty hardcore into tweaking my stuff, but I've gradually learned to try to leave things alone if I'm not sure what I'm trying to accomplish, lol.

    I'm always down for an improvement. The big thing for me was just getting the adjusters to feel usable...between the new oil/dust seals and a switch to Maxima 3wt, I think I'm really in the butter zone now.

    At ~185lbs (84kg), I was running about 50psi, with the rebound and HSC all the way open. It was a fairly smooth ride, but still seemed like it could be better on small bump, and I felt like the fork wasn't doing as much as it could when I really got into some faster downhill chunk.

    Dropped in IRT and switched to about 40/75psi. Already felt a little smoother, even though the weather was cold, which has always stiffened this fork substantially. Small bump a tiny bit better and I was now using all the travel.

    Have yet to go for a real ride after the new seals and oil change, but initial impressions are that my damping with rebound and HSC a couple clicks in is similar to what it used to be wide open. Fork feels overall more responsive, though stiction was never really an issue before (stock seals were probably as good as the Pike with SKF seals, which were way better than stock RS seals).

    I still can't figure out what the hell to do with the LSC knob, though. I never can decide where I want it...almost have to use it like a climb/descend switch (i.e. go all the way CW or CCW) to really feel a difference, and it's still a bit 'meh'...fork is still a bit soft for climbing (a tradeoff I gladly accept for comfort) yet I feel like going full-soft on descent sacrifices control. (edit to clarify: full LSC doesn't do much and zero LSC is too wallowy, so I generally just run it in the middle and try not to overthink it)
    Manitou does their recommended setup a bit different then most. They suggest setting high speed to control max platform with the low speed.

    https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conten...t-up_Guide.pdf

    You really canít compare the reshimming of the Pike to a Mattoc. Most of the issues with the Pike are related to its stock piston and air spring, which no amount of reshimming alone will fix.


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    Riding slowly since 1977.

  19. #3219
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    Hmm, ok. So pushed the bottom part of the compression assembly out from below. Changed the shimstack, put the assembly back together (which went rather difficult since the top cap was quite unwilling to thread in the bottom part). It seemed the balls didn't want to align properly or something. Now the LSC turns counter clock wise perfectly (and will keeping turning CC without an end stop) but clockwise it will only go one click and then it jams.

    So seems there is something going wrong in the assembly of the compression damper, but I have a hard time figuring out what. I did notice that wear was starting to show on the blue shaft where it intersect with the two balls at the red end of the LSC dial at bottom of the top cap.

    EDIT: Ok problem solved, the top cap didn't thread on far enough because the threads were damaged. Problem was that because the top cap separated the two balls were messing up the thread that secures the top cap to the rest of the assembly. I (well actually my wife, she's kinda cool like that) removed the inner red workings of LSC dial inside the top cap (see photo) so we could force the treads straight again without the internals interfering. Then reinstalled the red part into the bottom part together with the blue shaft with the balls in the right position and then you can thread on the top cap again.

    So my advice to anyone who has the top cap loosen unwantedly is to remove the red inner workings from the top cap first, together with the blue shaft reinstall that red inner workings first into bottom section of the comp. damper and then thread the top cap back on. Don't just go screwing the top cap back on or you'll risk messing up your thread (unless Dougal or Mullen suggest otherwise).

    So just managed to save the compression assembly but was a close call.




    PS. I changed the shims to this:

    10x12x0,2
    10x21x0,15
    8x11x0,25
    8x17,5x0,1
    -------------- piston
    10x25x0,15

    Compared to the original the 21mm shim changed from 0.2 to 0.15. So this shim is only 42% stiff as the original. I suspect this stack is still too stiff for her 66kg ride weight. If that's the case I'll probably try the following stack:

    10x12x0,2
    10x21x0,15
    8x12x0,1
    8x12x0,1
    8x17,5x0,1
    8x14x0,1
    -------------- piston
    10x25x0,15

    So basically a slight 0.1mm space under the 17,5mm shim to let it bleed a bit. Not sure if that will turn out correct, but we'll see.

    Also two 8x12x0,1 above the 17,5mm shim to give it some space towards the 21mm shims. Not sure if that's necessary.
    Last edited by CS645; 01-15-2018 at 01:14 PM.

  20. #3220
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    I'm having some issues with my Mattoc.
    On short rides it works pretty well.
    But on longer rides it starts to make a sound and start to get a lot of friction.
    The fork still works but feels harsher.
    Then the next morning when I pull the bike out of the garage its feeling pretty good again.

    I've serviced it recently including replacing damper oil and haven't been able to solve this.

  21. #3221
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    So my recommendation is to always use the lightest oil you can reasonably obtain. Which is about 15 cSt at 40C.

    Note that oils vary hugely from that 40C. The worst I've found gets 7x thicker from 40C to 0C. The best is under 3x thicker. Motorex 2.5wt is about 5x thicker.

    It is better for the damper performance and maintenance to run thinner oil and more compression damping on the top dials. Running thicker oil and the top dials open creates negative pressures inside on fast hits which can suck in air and cause foaming.
    Easy to fix that (oil change), but better to avoid.

    Performance wise thicker oils create too much damping in the piston ports on faster compression which can make the fork harsher. Quadratic, double the shaft speed and get 4x the damping. That's never good.

    I'd suggest you go for Maxima 3wt and dial in more LSC and HSC.
    Thanks a lot, Dougal! Really appreciate all your expertise and patience, on this thread and elsewhere. Question: when I first put the fork back together (Maxima 3wt), I had a new top-out clunk when the tire left the ground (and generally undamped feel). This went away after replacing a little 3wt with 7wt. Did it likely go away because of the added viscosity, or was it something else? (Maybe I didn't adequately bleed it, for example.)

  22. #3222
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    I'm having some issues with my Mattoc.
    On short rides it works pretty well.
    But on longer rides it starts to make a sound and start to get a lot of friction.
    The fork still works but feels harsher.
    Then the next morning when I pull the bike out of the garage its feeling pretty good again.

    I've serviced it recently including replacing damper oil and haven't been able to solve this.
    For what it's worth, friends and I have experienced this loss of performance with all forks we have owned--in our experience, it is rider fatigue.

  23. #3223
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    Quote Originally Posted by phile View Post
    Thanks a lot, Dougal! Really appreciate all your expertise and patience, on this thread and elsewhere. Question: when I first put the fork back together (Maxima 3wt), I had a new top-out clunk when the tire left the ground (and generally undamped feel). This went away after replacing a little 3wt with 7wt. Did it likely go away because of the added viscosity, or was it something else? (Maybe I didn't adequately bleed it, for example.)
    Possibly a displaced shim.

    Mrs Dougal is now running an oil so thin it's silly (7cSt at 40C). Rebound is still working properly.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  24. #3224
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    Quote Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    Hmm, ok. So pushed the bottom part of the compression assembly out from below. Changed the shimstack, put the assembly back together (which went rather difficult since the top cap was quite unwilling to thread in the bottom part). It seemed the balls didn't want to align properly or something. Now the LSC turns counter clock wise perfectly (and will keeping turning CC without an end stop) but clockwise it will only go one click and then it jams.

    So seems there is something going wrong in the assembly of the compression damper, but I have a hard time figuring out what. I did notice that wear was starting to show on the blue shaft where it intersect with the two balls at the red end of the LSC dial at bottom of the top cap.

    EDIT: Ok problem solved, the top cap didn't thread on far enough because the threads were damaged. Problem was that because the top cap separated the two balls were messing up the thread that secures the top cap to the rest of the assembly. I (well actually my wife, she's kinda cool like that) removed the inner red workings of LSC dial inside the top cap (see photo) so we could force the treads straight again without the internals interfering. Then reinstalled the red part into the bottom part together with the blue shaft with the balls in the right position and then you can thread on the top cap again.

    So my advice to anyone who has the top cap loosen unwantedly is to remove the red inner workings from the top cap first, together with the blue shaft reinstall that red inner workings first into bottom section of the comp. damper and then thread the top cap back on. Don't just go screwing the top cap back on or you'll risk messing up your thread (unless Dougal or Mullen suggest otherwise).

    So just managed to save the compression assembly but was a close call.




    PS. I changed the shims to this:

    10x12x0,2
    10x21x0,15
    8x11x0,25
    8x17,5x0,1
    -------------- piston
    10x25x0,15

    Compared to the original the 21mm shim changed from 0.2 to 0.15. So this shim is only 42% stiff as the original. I suspect this stack is still too stiff for her 66kg ride weight. If that's the case I'll probably try the following stack:

    10x12x0,2
    10x21x0,15
    8x12x0,1
    8x12x0,1
    8x17,5x0,1
    8x14x0,1
    -------------- piston
    10x25x0,15

    So basically a slight 0.1mm space under the 17,5mm shim to let it bleed a bit. Not sure if that will turn out correct, but we'll see.

    Also two 8x12x0,1 above the 17,5mm shim to give it some space towards the 21mm shims. Not sure if that's necessary.
    I've had one come apart before and the easiest way to reassemble it was to take it completely apart and reassemble it from the top-cap down. Here's a pic showing some of it apart: https://www.instagram.com/p/BHlBU0Mj...raftsuspension
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
    SPV Devolve

  25. #3225
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    I just bought a Mattoc, and it looks great. However, upon closer inspection the airvalve seems to be partly stripped, or should it be like this?

    Manitou Mattoc-mattoc_nuts.jpg

    Another question, how do I know I have the latest seals?

  26. #3226
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    Quote Originally Posted by knurra View Post

    Another question, how do I know I have the latest seals?
    The latest seals will say "RXWT000255" on them

  27. #3227
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Possibly a displaced shim.

    Mrs Dougal is now running an oil so thin it's silly (7cSt at 40C). Rebound is still working properly.
    Oh, interesting. Good to know that it still behaves with oil that thin. Whatever it was, it went away, oddly.

  28. #3228
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    EDIT: nevermind, in this case, it turned out to be a loose hexlock QR lever, which I changed over to from the hexlock SL recently! I'll leave my stupidity below in case it helps anyone else down the road.

    --------------

    Hey, has anyone experienced a "knocking" sensation in their mattoc? I have a mattoc 2 pro, and if I hold the front brake and rock the bike back and forth, while holding onto one or the other lower leg, I can feel what feels like the stanchions knocking back and forth inside the lowers.

    My mattoc had this from day one, manitou told me it was bushing slop, so I sent it in for replacement bushings under warranty. It came back unchanged, so I sent it back again and they replaced the lowers the second time. Problem was finally gone, but after about 6 months and maybe 20 rides (I split time between 2 different bikes), it's knocking pretty bad again.

    I can't find anyone else complaining about the same problem so I'm wondering if it's something else. Anyone have any ideas? If it's something I can fix myself, i'd much prefer that over not having the fork for another 2 weeks!
    Last edited by xeren; 01-15-2018 at 05:33 PM.

  29. #3229
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeren View Post
    The latest seals will say "RXWT000255" on them
    Ok, thanks!

  30. #3230
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    New review:

    https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-mattoc-pro-fork/


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    Riding slowly since 1977.

  31. #3231
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I've had one come apart before and the easiest way to reassemble it was to take it completely apart and reassemble it from the top-cap down. Here's a pic showing some of it apart: https://www.instagram.com/p/BHlBU0Mj...raftsuspension
    I wonder if Manitou considered making the compression assembly mount reverse thread. Might prevent this from happening. Now the top cap threads the same direction into the fork as well as into the rest of the compression assembly, making it more likely to unthread inside.

  32. #3232
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    Quote Originally Posted by CS645 View Post
    I wonder if Manitou considered making the compression assembly mount reverse thread. Might prevent this from happening. Now the top cap threads the same direction into the fork as well as into the rest of the compression assembly, making it more likely to unthread inside.
    Reverse thread is a great way to end up with a lot of broken parts. Everyone expects them to unscrew the usual way!

    A little more torque stops them unscrewing. Loctite is optional.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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    Great to see pictures of disassembled compression damper. Thanks to that I found that I reversed order of spring and ball to regulate HBO. I asked manitou support in Germany if its the right way and they agreed. It was wrong.
    This all happened because my damper unscrewed during removal, just like what happened to CS645

    Another thing is, my mattoc was getting harsher and harsher over time. I replaced oil, lubed air pistons, installed skf seals, but I was unable to make it plush again. Today I took damper out to reverse the spring and ball (as mentioned above) I spotted that the foam sleeve slipped down and is pushing quite hard to that silver HSC thing. So my platform shims were fully preloaded. Is there any way to avoid this?
    As you can see in the picture, there is a gap between adjustment rod and the silver sleeve.
    Manitou Mattoc-20180118_101839_web.jpg

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    just bought some mattock pro2 (IVA) for my spitfire, anyone got any tuning tips, currently have everything in the middle, weigh around 110kg's loaded so thinking 75psi, coming from x-fusion sweeps (I like to be different) I'd say aggressive riding style from lack of skill / fitness though!

  35. #3235
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    New review:

    https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-mattoc-pro-fork/


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    Somebody needs to show that guy how to route his brake cable

  36. #3236
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    Quote Originally Posted by gavstupple View Post
    just bought some mattock pro2 (IVA) for my spitfire, anyone got any tuning tips, currently have everything in the middle, weigh around 110kg's loaded so thinking 75psi, coming from x-fusion sweeps (I like to be different) I'd say aggressive riding style from lack of skill / fitness though!
    Start with what this guy did. And order the IRT.
    https://nsmb.com/articles/manitou-mattoc-pro-fork/
    https://nsmb.com/articles/coil-forks...nitou-irt-air/

  37. #3237
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    Somebody needs to show that guy how to route his brake cable
    That's actually how manitou wants you to route it

  38. #3238
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    I'm having some issues with my Mattoc.
    On short rides it works pretty well.
    But on longer rides it starts to make a sound and start to get a lot of friction.
    The fork still works but feels harsher.
    Then the next morning when I pull the bike out of the garage its feeling pretty good again.

    I've serviced it recently including replacing damper oil and haven't been able to solve this.
    I opened up the damper after riding and the oil level was high.
    I compressed the fork several times and released a lot of air trapped under the rebound piston and the oil level returned to normal.
    After reassembly a quick ride around showed a fork working ok again.
    I'm assuming this is my problem, that air is getting trapped in the bottom of the damper while riding.

    Do my assumptions make sense?
    Is there a fix or something to check out?

  39. #3239
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    I opened up the damper after riding and the oil level was high.
    I compressed the fork several times and released a lot of air trapped under the rebound piston and the oil level returned to normal.
    After reassembly a quick ride around showed a fork working ok again.
    I'm assuming this is my problem, that air is getting trapped in the bottom of the damper while riding.

    Do my assumptions make sense?
    Is there a fix or something to check out?
    Air should not make it's way under the rebound damper from riding. Can't say I have ever came across that before in any form. The oil level is supposed to be well above the ports the compression damper to make sure it doesn't happen.

    The only thing I can think of would be if the rebound damper seal head is allowing it to suck in air. It's the only logical reason this could happen, and the fix would be a new oring. That said, any air that would get sucked in should very quickly make it's way to the top of the damper during riding conditions since any air will rise, so it still doesn't make sense that air would be trapped down low.

    Very odd problem

  40. #3240
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    That's actually how manitou wants you to route it
    Well crap. Mine sure seemed to want to go straight up the leg to the lever and I've seen other users do that too, but I do get some light rubbing under full compression.

  41. #3241
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    Quote Originally Posted by Porch View Post
    Well crap. Mine sure seemed to want to go straight up the leg to the lever and I've seen other users do that too, but I do get some light rubbing under full compression.
    I have seen a ton a different methods that work, but the routing shown is the way manitou wants it done. Any route that doesn't hit the tire on compression or rub the crown is fine though. Unlike a front facing arch, there is no clear routing.

  42. #3242
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    OK, I've read through this and think i'm going to start with +2 on rebound, compression and bottom out as he did but hoping to stick with the IVA, i take it the socket on the top for the iva is what people have troubel with?

  43. #3243
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    This came out a while ago, but it seems like a good time to post it. I haven't been able to be on here as much recently, so it may have been posted and I missed it.

    https://wwwmanitoumtbcom-ct78ltl6iyp...-Arch_revC.pdf

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ2F_KizB7E

  44. #3244
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    This came out a while ago, but it seems like a good time to post it. I haven't been able to be on here as much recently, so it may have been posted and I missed it.

    https://wwwmanitoumtbcom-ct78ltl6iyp...-Arch_revC.pdf

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gZ2F_KizB7E
    So, best hose routing for front brakes on right hand side?

  45. #3245
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom King View Post
    So, best hose routing for front brakes on right hand side?
    Nope, works really well the normal Left-hand braking. The manitou way of routing actually prevents cable rub really well and is easier than trying to imitate front-arch routing.

  46. #3246
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    Quote Originally Posted by riiz View Post
    Nope, works really well the normal Left-hand braking. The manitou way of routing actually prevents cable rub really well and is easier than trying to imitate front-arch routing.
    I'm Australian so our normal is different to yours. Front lever on RHS.

  47. #3247
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom King View Post
    I'm Australian so our normal is different to yours. Front lever on RHS.
    That's how I run mine. And both hoses have been shortened since then too!


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    My brake routing kinda sucks. It's right-front, however the hose had already been set to the right length for the previous fork so at rest the brake hose rests on the top of the arch. It's not a big deal - I've put some tape on it to prevent it rubbing paint off - however as much as I love the Mattoc I'd prefer the brake routing of Rockshox/Fox any day.

  49. #3249
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom King View Post
    I'm Australian so our normal is different to yours. Front lever on RHS.
    I took some photos of how I do it. NZ, like Australia and the UK, run Moto-style.

    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technic...-cable-routing
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  50. #3250
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I took some photos of how I do it. NZ, like Australia and the UK, run Moto-style.

    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/technic...-cable-routing
    I run it like this on my left hand brake as I didn't have a long enough brake hose to try it the other way.

    I also put this on the fork leg instead of a plain zip tie:
    https://www.bikeparts.com/BPC167658/...de-black-4-bag

  51. #3251
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    In case anyone needs to see another option...I route my brake hose on the inside of the leg, like in Dougal's pic. But I secure it at the back since I'm running to the left side. It might look a little weird but IMO it lays really nice.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Manitou Mattoc-img_20171230_193123477a.jpg  


  52. #3252
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    In case anyone needs to see another option...I route my brake hose on the inside of the leg, like in Dougal's pic. But I secure it at the back since I'm running to the left side. It might look a little weird but IMO it lays really nice.
    That looks pretty good!
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  53. #3253
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    Quote Originally Posted by ac1000 View Post
    I run it like this on my left hand brake as I didn't have a long enough brake hose to try it the other way.

    I also put this on the fork leg instead of a plain zip tie:
    https://www.bikeparts.com/BPC167658/...de-black-4-bag
    I ran across your site when I first installed my fork and it was the reason I didn't run the cable the way they did in that review. It works well the way you posted.

    Funny story but it turns out i'm going to get to re-do my front brake cable (kinked my cable while replacing my stem the other day). Maybe I'll try the Manitou way this time.

  54. #3254
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    In case anyone needs to see another option...I route my brake hose on the inside of the leg, like in Dougal's pic. But I secure it at the back since I'm running to the left side. It might look a little weird but IMO it lays really nice.
    Dirt bikes run the front brake line like this, they continue up in front of the fork, but the lower routing is exactly like this. For a while Honda actually had a patent on this routing and everyone else had to route differently, with the hose leaving the caliper pointed down, looping under and around in front of the caliper, then going up the fork.

  55. #3255
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    I just had a thought - can I run my IVA with the spacers entirely removed, instead of just on the lower side of the seal?

    They still take up *some* space in the air chamber, so I'm wondering if it's safe to take them out to get even a little bit more linearity out of the spring?


    Also, does anyone find the recommended PSI charts for the IVA to be too stiff? The recommendation I get for my weight and travel is 72psi, but even 60psi is WAY too stiff - i only use about 2/3rds of my travel. I'm currently at 55psi and might even go lower.

  56. #3256
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeren View Post
    I just had a thought - can I run my IVA with the spacers entirely removed, instead of just on the lower side of the seal?

    They still take up *some* space in the air chamber, so I'm wondering if it's safe to take them out to get even a little bit more linearity out of the spring?


    Also, does anyone find the recommended PSI charts for the IVA to be too stiff? The recommendation I get for my weight and travel is 72psi, but even 60psi is WAY too stiff - i only use about 2/3rds of my travel. I'm currently at 55psi and might even go lower.
    You can absolutely remove the piston and spacers completely to gain more volume. Do so as needed. Manitou also makes a blank top cap if needed.

    I have yet to find a suspension manufacture with recommendations that are close. I don't even look at the charts anymore as they are pointless.

    If you have a spacific spring curve and like to mess with your suspension, but the IRT upgrade. It's worth it.

  57. #3257
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    You can absolutely remove the piston and spacers completely to gain more volume. Do so as needed. Manitou also makes a blank top cap if needed.

    I have yet to find a suspension manufacture with recommendations that are close. I don't even look at the charts anymore as they are pointless.

    If you have a spacific spring curve and like to mess with your suspension, but the IRT upgrade. It's worth it.
    Thanks mullen119. I didn't know I could remove the piston as well. does it come off the bottom of the rod after the thing at the bottom of the rod is unscrewed?

    I actually have the IRT upgrade, but I can't seem to dial it in properly, so I decided to go back to the IVA that came with the fork. The thing is, I LOVE tinkering with my suspension. I changed the shims on my Manitou Minute, I do all my own services, etc. But I just couldn't find a set of air pressures that felt better with the IRT than with the single chamber spring.

    I'm 175lbs, and pretty solidly intermediate, running the fork at 150mm, but with the IRT, whenever I would try pressures in the chambers that were far enough apart to actually make a difference in the spring curve, the fork would either be way too stiff, or way too wallowy.

    for example, 45psi was the lowest I could seem to go in the main chamber while still having good support, but putting like 75psi in the IRT meant I couldn't use full travel, even with HBO and HSC damping at minimum. and on the other side, if I wanted to get full travel, the main spring had to be too low, and the fork would dive. i know the purpose of the IRT is to get a more linear spring rate, but it seemed to be doing the opposite for me.

    so yeah, i'm going back to basics for now. I'm going to find a good spring rate and good damping settings that I like and can stick with, and then maybe go back to the IRT. If you have any tips, though, i'm all ears (eyes?)!

  58. #3258
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeren View Post
    I just had a thought - can I run my IVA with the spacers entirely removed, instead of just on the lower side of the seal?

    They still take up *some* space in the air chamber, so I'm wondering if it's safe to take them out to get even a little bit more linearity out of the spring?


    Also, does anyone find the recommended PSI charts for the IVA to be too stiff? The recommendation I get for my weight and travel is 72psi, but even 60psi is WAY too stiff - i only use about 2/3rds of my travel. I'm currently at 55psi and might even go lower.
    Take the oring off the IVA piston and you'll gain most of the volume without having to remove anything bigger.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  59. #3259
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Take the oring off the IVA piston and you'll gain most of the volume without having to remove anything bigger.
    thanks, i might try this too if removing the piston looks like it could damage anything

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    I'm 185lbs and I found that the lowest I could go with the IVA cap was about 50psi. A little soft for slow, technical maneuvering, but felt fine at speed. Still didn't use all the travel.

    I swapped in the IRT and went to 40/75 and it's literally better in every way. Similar overall feel, but gentler off the top (so better small bump) and somehow, it's still using more travel.

    What pressure are you using with the IVA, xeren? I could see someone not feeling a difference, but can't imagine IRT actually feeling worse. Did you set the pressures in the correct order? Sure that the IRT piston was moving freely?

  61. #3261
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    I'm 185lbs and I found that the lowest I could go with the IVA cap was about 50psi. A little soft for slow, technical maneuvering, but felt fine at speed. Still didn't use all the travel.

    I swapped in the IRT and went to 40/75 and it's literally better in every way. Similar overall feel, but gentler off the top (so better small bump) and somehow, it's still using more travel.

    What pressure are you using with the IVA, xeren? I could see someone not feeling a difference, but can't imagine IRT actually feeling worse. Did you set the pressures in the correct order? Sure that the IRT piston was moving freely?
    i just swapped back to the IVA, so i'm still dialing in the pressure. 60 psi was way too high- bad small bump compliance and didn't come close to using all the travel. i have it set to 55psi but haven't ridden on it yet. i have a feeling i will end up at 50psi when all is said and done - i think that's what i was running originally, before installing the IRT a while back.

    yep, set the IRT pressure first, then the main spring. i guess it's not that it felt worse, it's just that the pressures that felt right, (while avoiding diving at one extreme, or not using even close to all the travel at the other extreme) all ended up with very close main spring and IRT spring pressures, like 50 and 60psi, for example, and at that point, the IRT isnt really doing much in the way of adjusting the spring curve, given how quickly in the travel the 50psi of the main spring gets up to the same pressure as the IRT spring and starts moving it. IIRC, manitou says to keep the pressures at least 10 or 15psi apart, probably for this exact reason

    as a side note, the recommended pressures that manitou gives for the IRT are even more insane than the IVA recommended pressures. for my weight, they recommend 72psi & 112psi. when set at those pressures, the fork feels like it's locked out. i thought something had broken inside my fork at that point, before trying much lower pressures

  62. #3262
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeren View Post
    as a side note, the recommended pressures that manitou gives for the IRT are even more insane than the IVA recommended pressures. for my weight, they recommend 72psi & 112psi. when set at those pressures, the fork feels like it's locked out. i thought something had broken inside my fork at that point, before trying much lower pressures
    It took me a long time to find a good base setting for the IRT.

    So I tell people now. Take your main pressure, use 10psi less in the lower chamber, 10psi more in the top and then tune from there.

    I went from 50psi single to 40/60psi and I'm happy as a pig in s**t.
    Mrs Dougal is down to 25/40psi.

    1.5x lower pressure in the top also seems to be a good guideline. The 2x recommendation requires a very hard hitting rider. Great for racing but will beat the crap out of you in less aggressive riding.

    As bikes get slacker and longer there is less weight on the fork.
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  63. #3263
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    As bikes get slacker and longer there is less weight on the fork.
    That's true, I hadn't really thought about that

    alright, i'm going to try to dial in the IVA with everything removed to make it as linear as possible (or maybe get an old school top cap (for posterity, it appears to be part # 141-30996-K006), and if i'm not completely in love with the spring curve, i'll give the IRT a shot again with your suggestions. Thanks again for the helpful info!

    i think I've said it before, but I really wish Manitou had a Mattoc coil spring kit in the works, or a MARS kit. I would buy that in a second.

    My Minute fork with the MARS coil/air spring combo is the best fork I've ever ridden. I know you give up travel adjustability, but the small bump compliance with the right spring in the MARS is so, so good, and it stays nice and high in its travel, even with the trail shim stack in the damper.

  64. #3264
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    Quote Originally Posted by xeren View Post
    as a side note, the recommended pressures that manitou gives for the IRT are even more insane than the IVA recommended pressures. for my weight, they recommend 72psi & 112psi. when set at those pressures, the fork feels like it's locked out. i thought something had broken inside my fork at that point, before trying much lower pressures
    I think Manitou just has seriously aggressive test riders working for them. With most other forks my air pressure ends up around 25-30% higher than the manufacturer recommendations, but with Manitou I ended up right on the mark. I started with a stiffer setup but eventually ended up at 52psi in the main and 100psi in the IRT, right where Manitou said it should be. Surprised the heck out of me.

  65. #3265
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    I'd expect so.
    But wouldn't want to say for sure if there were any wall thickness differences in the uppers.

    I'm sure it was dougal that mentioned you could make the mattoc dual air ages ago. The shockwiz would work as long as the chambers were separate when the valve was attached.
    Looks like you can't get a IVA assembly with an air valve any more.
    The IVA that manitou sell for the mattocs now doesn't include an air valve.

    Would a Magnum Air Cap enable Mattocs I or II to work with a shockwiz? Has anyone tried this, does it fit?

    I ideally want some way of varying the internal volume with an air valve in the top cap so I can alter the volume and use a shockwiz.

  66. #3266
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shlec View Post
    Looks like you can't get a IVA assembly with an air valve any more.
    The IVA that manitou sell for the mattocs now doesn't include an air valve.

    Would a Magnum Air Cap enable Mattocs I or II to work with a shockwiz? Has anyone tried this, does it fit?

    I ideally want some way of varying the internal volume with an air valve in the top cap so I can alter the volume and use a shockwiz.
    The IVA never came with an air-valve. Yes a Magnum cap will let you run a shockwiz. If you like playing around.

    You'd need to create a custom IVA valved cap to do what you want. But I'm not seeing the point really.
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  67. #3267
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    Quote Originally Posted by aerius View Post
    I think Manitou just has seriously aggressive test riders working for them. With most other forks my air pressure ends up around 25-30% higher than the manufacturer recommendations, but with Manitou I ended up right on the mark. I started with a stiffer setup but eventually ended up at 52psi in the main and 100psi in the IRT, right where Manitou said it should be. Surprised the heck out of me.
    Echoing this experience, I ended up exactly with what Manitou recommended on main spring and some 5psi higher IRT. And still get full travel with two clicks out from full hbo.

    That is to say that the air spring pressures are pretty spot on for some of us.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A5010 using Tapatalk

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    I'm about to install the IRT, coming straight from coil I think I'm used to a bit steeper spring rate.
    On the damper side I'm using zero rebound damping now, what recommendations did you have for lower weight oil? I think I recall something about "Pike" oil being ok?

  69. #3269
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    Manitou Mattoc

    Quote Originally Posted by knurra View Post
    I'm about to install the IRT, coming straight from coil I think I'm used to a bit steeper spring rate.
    On the damper side I'm using zero rebound damping now, what recommendations did you have for lower weight oil? I think I recall something about "Pike" oil being ok?
    A coil is perfectly linear and an air spring progressive (you could theoretically make an air spring that doesnít ramp up as fast as a coil, but it would require a far larger air chamber than is available within a fork.

    If you want to run a lighter oil, try Redline 2.5 weight. Before doing that, make sure everything is working correctly. Generally people donít need to play with lighter oils unless they are under 130 pounds or so. Are your seals lubed?


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  70. #3270
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    Quote Originally Posted by knurra View Post
    I'm about to install the IRT, coming straight from coil I think I'm used to a bit steeper spring rate.
    On the damper side I'm using zero rebound damping now, what recommendations did you have for lower weight oil? I think I recall something about "Pike" oil being ok?
    Which seals have you got? The new low-friction seals are worth about 3 clicks of rebound.

    I used to run wide open rebound. With the new seals I'm 3 clicks in.

    Yes Pike oil is okay. It's similar viscosity at 40C but a bit thinner at 20C.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  71. #3271
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    An interesting pic for you guys. This is after last nights riding, my bike is on the viewers left with Minion DHF 2.6 in it. Bike on the right (Scott) has Minion DHF 2.8 in it.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Be_cG0tl...raftsuspension

    The forks are the Mattoc Pro Boost 27". Mine set at 170mm. The 2.8 DHF is just within the diameter allowed by Manitou for this fork. Slightly over the officially allowed width.

    Stance and tyre clearance in these Mattoc Pro Boost is seriously impressive. 170mm travel with big rubber is very nice too.
    Last edited by Dougal; 02-09-2018 at 04:36 PM.
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  72. #3272
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    An interesting pic for you guys. This is after last nights riding, my bike is on the viewers left with Minion DHF 2.6 in it. Bike on the right (Scott) has Minion DHF 2.8 in it.

    https://www.instagram.com/p/Be_cG0tl...raftsuspension

    The forks are the Mattoc Pro Boost. Mine set at 170mm. The 2.8 DHF is just within the diameter allowed by Manitou for this fork. Slightly over the officially allowed width.

    Stance and tyre clearance in these Mattoc Pro Boost is seriously impressive. 170mm travel with big rubber is very nice too.
    Nice!... So really it looks like you could do the 27.5 Pro Boost and be able to fit a standard 2.5" 29er tire in there with pretty ample clearance. Only reason I state that is because the one thing that has turned me off to the 27.5+/29 version is that it only has 140mm of travel, I currently run 150mm on my bike and next bike will be at least that. Whenever that happens.

  73. #3273
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Nice!... So really it looks like you could do the 27.5 Pro Boost and be able to fit a standard 2.5" 29er tire in there with pretty ample clearance. Only reason I state that is because the one thing that has turned me off to the 27.5+/29 version is that it only has 140mm of travel, I currently run 150mm on my bike and next bike will be at least that. Whenever that happens.
    Just to be clear, those are two different forks. In the photo above are the Mattoc Pro Boost 27-160. The ones with the bolt-on mudguard. Which you can take out a spacer to get 170mm. Brace design is the giveaway but it's not obvious in that photo.

    The Mattoc Pro 29" is the one you're referring to which is 140mm. The same guy who owns the black Mattoc Pro Boost 27 also owns a Magnum Pro 29" which he runs with a 29x2.5 or 2.6 (can't recall). I stretched that fork out to 150mm for him.

    It's all safe and working perfectly. But it's a modification by me, not a factory fork.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  74. #3274
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    A coil is perfectly linear and an air spring progressive (you could theoretically make an air spring that doesnít ramp up as fast as a coil, but it would require a far larger air chamber than is available within a fork.

    If you want to run a lighter oil, try Redline 2.5 weight. Before doing that, make sure everything is working correctly. Generally people donít need to play with lighter oils unless they are under 130 pounds or so. Are your seals lubed?


    Sent from my iPad using Tapatalk Pro
    I'm about 130 pounds, so fairly lightweight. I'm using the fork straight from "shop", I can sense some stiction after riding on flat terrain. I think I will have proper service done and change to lightweight oil, it feels better do be "in" the range, rather than on one extreme end. The new seals were already installed, but I've bought Racingbros Lycan seals as well.

    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal
    I used to run wide open rebound. With the new seals I'm 3 clicks in.

    Yes Pike oil is okay. It's similar viscosity at 40C but a bit thinner at 20C.
    Cheers, will try Pike oil, or similar.

  75. #3275
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    Quote Originally Posted by knurra View Post
    I'm about 130 pounds, so fairly lightweight. I'm using the fork straight from "shop", I can sense some stiction after riding on flat terrain. I think I will have proper service done and change to lightweight oil, it feels better do be "in" the range, rather than on one extreme end. The new seals were already installed, but I've bought Racingbros Lycan seals as well.



    Cheers, will try Pike oil, or similar.
    Pike oil (RS/Maxima 3wt) won't be enough of a change for you to notice. The shim stack dampers need a big change in oil viscosity to be noticable.

    I've just released two Motorex options which are 1/3 and 2/3 the normal oil viscosity:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/hydraul...l-motorex.html
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/hydraul...l-motorex.html

    Iv'e also got this one for rear shocks. But the extra heat capacity just isn't needed for forks:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/hot-oil...raft-2702.html

    The Manitou seals are far better than RB. I think RB have reduced sealing too much. They don't keep oil in or dirt out as well as the Manitou low friction seals.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  76. #3276
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Pike oil (RS/Maxima 3wt) won't be enough of a change for you to notice. The shim stack dampers need a big change in oil viscosity to be noticable.

    I've just released two Motorex options which are 1/3 and 2/3 the normal oil viscosity:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/hydraul...l-motorex.html
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/hydraul...l-motorex.html

    Iv'e also got this one for rear shocks. But the extra heat capacity just isn't needed for forks:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/hot-oil...raft-2702.html

    The Manitou seals are far better than RB. I think RB have reduced sealing too much. They don't keep oil in or dirt out as well as the Manitou low friction seals.
    Nice. Good job on sourcing that.


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  77. #3277
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    Hey guys, 26" Mattoc running @140 will a 2.5 minion DHF fit?
    **** Looking for a Sram 9.0SL rear hub *****

  78. #3278
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    Quote Originally Posted by equinox View Post
    Hey guys, 26" Mattoc running @140 will a 2.5 minion DHF fit?
    Officially you're allowed 696mm OD and 63mm width (27.4x2.5") in the 26" mode. Have a measure up and see how close you are.
    Based on my 27x2.6" DHF it'll be within a few mm (26" rim is 1" smaller than 27.5).

    You can convert a 26" Mattoc to 27" clearance (extra 10mm radius, 20mm diameter to 716mm) by installing a 10mm spacer under the bottom-out bumpers and fitting the longer HBO cone.

    Keep in mind Manitou's official figures are very safe and you're free to do what you like with your own fork.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  79. #3279
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Pike oil (RS/Maxima 3wt) won't be enough of a change for you to notice. The shim stack dampers need a big change in oil viscosity to be noticable.

    I've just released two Motorex options which are 1/3 and 2/3 the normal oil viscosity:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/hydraul...l-motorex.html
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/hydraul...l-motorex.html

    Iv'e also got this one for rear shocks. But the extra heat capacity just isn't needed for forks:
    https://www.shockcraft.co.nz/hot-oil...raft-2702.html

    The Manitou seals are far better than RB. I think RB have reduced sealing too much. They don't keep oil in or dirt out as well as the Manitou low friction seals.
    Thanks, I've not done the modifications yet. I guess I can "afford" quite a significant change in oil as I'm almost out of the range now.

  80. #3280
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Just to be clear, those are two different forks. In the photo above are the Mattoc Pro Boost 27-160. The ones with the bolt-on mudguard. Which you can take out a spacer to get 170mm. Brace design is the giveaway but it's not obvious in that photo.

    The Mattoc Pro 29" is the one you're referring to which is 140mm. The same guy who owns the black Mattoc Pro Boost 27 also owns a Magnum Pro 29" which he runs with a 29x2.5 or 2.6 (can't recall). I stretched that fork out to 150mm for him.

    It's all safe and working perfectly. But it's a modification by me, not a factory fork.
    Sorry think I confused you Dougal...

    Basic ask: Will a Mattoc Pro 27.5" at 150mm+ be able to run a 29er wheel with standard 2.4" tire (e.g. WTB i29 with Vittoria Goma 2.4 at 20psi)?

    Basic gripe: Manitou still hasn't released a 29er long travel AM style fork (e.g. Mattoc) that does more than 140mm. With the new crop of AM geo bikes (Long, Low and Slack) I am seeing an increased need for a 29er fork that does more than 150mm but has 34mm+ stanchions. Won't throw my money at FOX or RS which leaves me only a few. Would rather send it to Manitou but alas they have nothing like that (YET).

  81. #3281
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Sorry think I confused you Dougal...

    Basic ask: Will a Mattoc Pro 27.5" at 150mm+ be able to run a 29er wheel with standard 2.4" tire (e.g. WTB i29 with Vittoria Goma 2.4 at 20psi)?
    No it won't. The Mattoc Pro 27 (non plus) forks cannot fit a 29".

    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Basic gripe: Manitou still hasn't released a 29er long travel AM style fork (e.g. Mattoc) that does more than 140mm. With the new crop of AM geo bikes (Long, Low and Slack) I am seeing an increased need for a 29er fork that does more than 150mm but has 34mm+ stanchions. Won't throw my money at FOX or RS which leaves me only a few. Would rather send it to Manitou but alas they have nothing like that (YET).
    The Mattoc/Magnum Pro 27+/29" Boost fork (factory 140mm max) can and does. I have stretched one of these out to 150mm for a local customer running 29".
    He loves it.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  82. #3282
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    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post

    Basic gripe: Manitou still hasn't released a 29er long travel AM style fork (e.g. Mattoc) that does more than 140mm. With the new crop of AM geo bikes (Long, Low and Slack) I am seeing an increased need for a 29er fork that does more than 150mm but has 34mm+ stanchions.
    A Dorado would look quite cool...

  83. #3283
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Officially you're allowed 696mm OD and 63mm width (27.4x2.5") in the 26" mode. Have a measure up and see how close you are.
    Based on my 27x2.6" DHF it'll be within a few mm (26" rim is 1" smaller than 27.5).

    You can convert a 26" Mattoc to 27" clearance (extra 10mm radius, 20mm diameter to 716mm) by installing a 10mm spacer under the bottom-out bumpers and fitting the longer HBO cone.

    Keep in mind Manitou's official figures are very safe and you're free to do what you like with your own fork.
    Thank you!
    Do you work Saturdays? will be in your neck of the woods shortly for BMX and I could save myself some postage
    **** Looking for a Sram 9.0SL rear hub *****

  84. #3284
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    No it won't. The Mattoc Pro 27 (non plus) forks cannot fit a 29".



    The Mattoc/Magnum Pro 27+/29" Boost fork (factory 140mm max) can and does. I have stretched one of these out to 150mm for a local customer running 29".
    He loves it.
    Ok thanks for the clarification.
    Was is something really involved to stretch it out to 150mm? Currently running 150mm on my Auron and love it with the 130 back, but still kick myself for not getting a Magnum/Mattoc instead of purchasing the Auron. Just the Manitou fanboy in me. Been keeping my eye on eBay to see if I can grab a Magnum Pro 27.5+ for cheap.

  85. #3285
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    What is your desire for the 150mm fork? If it's geo rather than travel then take note of axle-to-crown height, as Manitou forks can be quite tall in a2c sometimes and 140mm may get you what you want.

  86. #3286
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    Quote Originally Posted by equinox View Post
    Thank you!
    Do you work Saturdays? will be in your neck of the woods shortly for BMX and I could save myself some postage
    Sorry the weekends are my own. We can however drop orders with anyone else you know locally.

    Quote Originally Posted by gregnash View Post
    Ok thanks for the clarification.
    Was is something really involved to stretch it out to 150mm? Currently running 150mm on my Auron and love it with the 130 back, but still kick myself for not getting a Magnum/Mattoc instead of purchasing the Auron. Just the Manitou fanboy in me. Been keeping my eye on eBay to see if I can grab a Magnum Pro 27.5+ for cheap.
    It's a top-out bumper modification.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  87. #3287
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The IVA never came with an air-valve. Yes a Magnum cap will let you run a shockwiz. If you like playing around.

    You'd need to create a custom IVA valved cap to do what you want. But I'm not seeing the point really.
    So I purchased the magnum air cap from CRC and they sent me a IRT! Score!

    Just out of curiosity why don't you see any point in having a IVA system with an air valve which can be used with the shockwiz?

  88. #3288
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    Thatís how Iíve been doing it since 2002...

  89. #3289
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    Quote Originally Posted by equinox View Post
    Just out of curiosity why don't you see any point in having a IVA system with an air valve which can be used with the shockwiz?
    Because monitoring only air pressure tells you SFA about your suspension.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  90. #3290
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    I'm surprised how popular the Shockwiz things have been. Maybe I shouldn't be, there are a lot of people always looking for something else to spend money on and anything with electronics like that is a popular item.

  91. #3291
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    I'm surprised how popular the Shockwiz things have been. Maybe I shouldn't be, there are a lot of people always looking for something else to spend money on and anything with electronics like that is a popular item.
    Marketing is powerful and most people are sheep.

    Think about the people you know, how many take the time to learn something rather then take the easy way out for mediocre results? That's why shockwiz is popular. Easy way to get a "C-" set up with little to no effort. And in their heads, they are masters with an "A" set up thinking we put to much effort in.

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    Dougal, will you mail those oils to the US?

    Second question...is it dumb to get those mailed from Australia to the US? LOL. I don't mind paying the markup to the guy who managed to ID and acquire the specialty oil, but airmailing a pint from Australia seems a wee bit wasteful.

    I can't even seen to find anyone who sells this stuff in the US. Outside of bulk drums, anyway.

    I'm sure anyone would say I don't need the ultralight oil at my weight (185lb/84kg), but I figure if I'm still finding myself wanting to run everything wide-open with Maxima 3w (14cSt), it makes sense to go another notch lighter.

  93. #3293
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Dougal, will you mail those oils to the US?

    Second question...is it dumb to get those mailed from Australia to the US? LOL. I don't mind paying the markup to the guy who managed to ID and acquire the specialty oil, but airmailing a pint from Australia seems a wee bit wasteful.

    I can't even seen to find anyone who sells this stuff in the US. Outside of bulk drums, anyway.

    I'm sure anyone would say I don't need the ultralight oil at my weight (185lb/84kg), but I figure if I'm still finding myself wanting to run everything wide-open with Maxima 3w (14cSt), it makes sense to go another notch lighter.
    Yes we send to the states. Plenty of happy customers there. Going via Australia doesn't make any sense though.

    We've even sold Motorex oil back into Switzerland!

    I have a high-flow piston mod for these I will be selling as soon as I can get stock.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  94. #3294
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Dougal, will you mail those oils to the US?

    Second question...is it dumb to get those mailed from Australia to the US? LOL. I don't mind paying the markup to the guy who managed to ID and acquire the specialty oil, but airmailing a pint from Australia seems a wee bit wasteful.

    I can't even seen to find anyone who sells this stuff in the US. Outside of bulk drums, anyway.

    I'm sure anyone would say I don't need the ultralight oil at my weight (185lb/84kg), but I figure if I'm still finding myself wanting to run everything wide-open with Maxima 3w (14cSt), it makes sense to go another notch lighter.
    Dougal sent me oil before (to ohio). It was here faster than if I ordered from Cali and had it shipped ups ground.

    Honestly, everyone should just get their oils and seal from dougal. Shipping time and prices are pretty much equal.

  95. #3295
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    Quote Originally Posted by phuchmileif View Post
    Dougal, will you mail those oils to the US?

    Second question...is it dumb to get those mailed from Australia to the US? LOL. I don't mind paying the markup to the guy who managed to ID and acquire the specialty oil, but airmailing a pint from Australia seems a wee bit wasteful.

    I can't even seen to find anyone who sells this stuff in the US. Outside of bulk drums, anyway.

    I'm sure anyone would say I don't need the ultralight oil at my weight (185lb/84kg), but I figure if I'm still finding myself wanting to run everything wide-open with Maxima 3w (14cSt), it makes sense to go another notch lighter.
    When did Dougal move to Australia? Did Australia take over New Zealand and the news forgot to report it? I always find Australia and New Zealand so confusing, I mean how can you not get confused when they are further apart than the UK and Germany.


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  96. #3296
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cary View Post
    When did Dougal move to Australia? Did Australia take over New Zealand and the news forgot to report it? I always find Australia and New Zealand so confusing, I mean how can you not get confused when they are further apart than the UK and Germany.


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  97. #3297
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Yes we send to the states. Plenty of happy customers there. Going via Australia doesn't make any sense though.

    We've even sold Motorex oil back into Switzerland!

    I have a high-flow piston mod for these I will be selling as soon as I can get stock.
    are you familiar w/ Rock Oil from the U.K.? anybody?
    breezy shade

  98. #3298
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Marketing is powerful and most people are sheep.

    Think about the people you know, how many take the time to learn something rather then take the easy way out for mediocre results? That's why shockwiz is popular. Easy way to get a "C-" set up with little to no effort. And in their heads, they are masters with an "A" set up thinking we put to much effort in.
    I thought the Shockwiz did actual data logging, is that not true?

  99. #3299
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    Quote Originally Posted by fsrxc View Post
    I thought the Shockwiz did actual data logging, is that not true?
    Sure, it does data logging. But the data is of air pressures. It's just not very useful information in the grand scheme of things.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Sure, it does data logging. But the data is of air pressures. It's just not very useful information in the grand scheme of things.
    For you.

    We bought one for our club at my suggestion. 97% of the riders out there DGAF about their suspension, in fact half of them actually think that the shop set it for them when they bought the bike.

    Take my wife's bike for example. She doesn't know what ANY of those knobs do, so how am I going to find out whether her rebound is set right?

    The shockwiz is a great way for me to help a rider go from an F- shock setup to a solid 'B' in under 30 minutes. It may not be perfect but it's a lot better than what anyone else has come up with.

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