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Thread: Manitou Mattoc

  1. #2301
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    It's not right, but happens all the time. Rock Shox branded oil is just rebranded Torco RFF oils, same with Fox oils. They slap a different sticker on and and charge 40% more
    do you happen to know which brand makes Fox Gold 20wt?

  2. #2302
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    Just thought I'd post a big shout out to Christian @ Manitou Support Europe!
    They've just sorted me out massively.
    The UK importer couldn't get the air spring parts for my mattoc, and couldn't give me any time frames if I did put an order in with them.

    Christian @ Manitou Europe answered my emails quickly, and couldn't have been more helpful.
    Just had a parcel turn up @ home today with the parts!

    I will also add that they were in no way obliged to help as my Mattoc's are way way out of warranty now. (~3yrs old)

    This is exactly what wins and keeps customers supporting products.
    Customer service over marketing blurb everytime!

  3. #2303
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    Just wondering if anybody has done a wheel size conversion without using the mattoc fork clamp lock tool? I don't have the tool and want to convert my new fork to 27.5


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  4. #2304
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    Just wondering if anybody has done a wheel size conversion without using the mattoc fork clamp lock tool? I don't have the tool and want to convert my new fork to 27.5


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    It's an easy job.
    4mm allen key down the air valve to undo the air spring. (instead of the 8mm thinwall socket)
    and 8mm allen key for the camper side.

    Then take out the damper oil, and swap the top HBO part on the rebound damper.
    To remove the damper you can use a cassette tool with a large hole in the middle by compressing it all the way in. (you don't need the manitou slotted cassette tool)

    Then make sure there is the 10mm spacer under the bottomout bumper on each side when you put it back together.
    Here is the picture of travel configurations of the spacers.
    Manitou Mattoc-p4pb11187004.jpg

  5. #2305
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    Manitou Mattoc

    Cheers for the quick response. On the video they use this tool.



    Already have the mattoc tool kit on hand for the conversion.

    I am assuming that nobody would purchase this for a once off conversion.

    What are people using instead? Wrapping a towel around the damper and clamping in a vice? Soft jawed vice? Creating the tool from timber?

  6. #2306
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    Cheers for the quick response. On the video they use this tool.



    Already have the mattoc tool kit on hand for the conversion.

    I am assuming that nobody would purchase this for a once off conversion.

    What are people using instead? Wrapping a towel around the damper and clamping in a vice? Soft jawed vice? Creating the tool from timber?
    You can wrap an old tube around it, and hold that and twist.
    (Wrap it so it tightens as you twist to undo)
    That normally gets enough purchase if you've cleaned it first.
    Otherwise look into golf handle vice jaws. They are cheap rubber vice jaws.

  7. #2307
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    You can wrap an old tube around it, and hold that and twist.
    That normally gets enough purchase if you've cleaned it first.
    Otherwise look into golf handle vice jaws. They are cheap rubber vice jaws.
    You bloody legend! The tube is an excellent idea.

  8. #2308
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    Manitou Mattoc

    So i did the 27.5" conversion today. Changed the rod on the rebound assembly and added a travel spacer on bottom of the air spring side. I have a 26" mattoc expert with an upgraded piston seal head and rebound assembly (had the green dot on the box and 11 clicks of rebound). I have a couple of questions for anybody who has done the conversion.

    Is it safe to use the travel spacers rather than the bottom spacers? I only received travel spacers in my box and well as the two rods.

    On the expert the diagram shows a spacer on the bottom of the rebound assembly also. I was unable to fit a travel spacer there as the shaft had a thicker diameter. Is a spacer required on both sides for the expert? Or a people running one only on the air spring side without issue?

    Cheers

  9. #2309
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post

    On the expert the diagram shows a spacer on the bottom of the rebound assembly also. I was unable to fit a travel spacer there as the shaft had a thicker diameter. Is a spacer required on both sides for the expert? Or a people running one only on the air spring side without issue?

    Cheers
    The bottom out spacer isn't critical on the damper side, as long as you're running the bottomout spacer on The air spring side. HBO slows the last part of travel, so the bumpers arent taking fast impacts.

  10. #2310
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    So i did the 27.5" conversion today. Changed the rod on the rebound assembly and added a travel spacer on bottom of the air spring side. I have a 26" mattoc expert with an upgraded piston seal head and rebound assembly (had the green dot on the box and 11 clicks of rebound). I have a couple of questions for anybody who has done the conversion.

    Is it safe to use the travel spacers rather than the bottom spacers? I only received travel spacers in my box and well as the two rods.

    On the expert the diagram shows a spacer on the bottom of the rebound assembly also. I was unable to fit a travel spacer there as the shaft had a thicker diameter. Is a spacer required on both sides for the expert? Or a people running one only on the air spring side without issue?

    Cheers
    The bottom spacer is a travel spacer. They're all the same. Air side is the one which has top-out and bottom-out bumpers. Damper side has HBO.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  11. #2311
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The bottom spacer is a travel spacer. They're all the same. Air side is the one which has top-out and bottom-out bumpers. Damper side has HBO.
    The fork in question is an Expert. My understanding is that it requires a bottom spacer on the rebound assembly when used as 27.5. That spacer has a different cross section to a travel spacer and also has a larger ID.

  12. #2312
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom King View Post
    The fork in question is an Expert. My understanding is that it requires a bottom spacer on the rebound assembly when used as 27.5. That spacer has a different cross section to a travel spacer and also has a larger ID.
    My expert is 27.5 and there is no spacer on the damper side. No need for it

  13. #2313
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    Manitou Mattoc

    For open bath / Expert damper users, or anyone that has compared fork oils, what have you tried/found that reduces stiction the most for the damper leg sliding bits (bush, seals, rings etc)?

    Normally I blend Redline, but VI seems almost 2x higher than Maxima 5, Spectro 85/150, Motorex 2.5 (their VI@ 150 iirc). Usually pay closer attention to VI when matching the #s for shocks...anyone else use redline?
    ...

  14. #2314
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    Quote Originally Posted by J: View Post
    For open bath / Expert damper users, or anyone that has compared fork oils, what have you tried/found that reduces stiction the most for the damper leg sliding bits (bush, seals, rings etc)?

    Normally I blend Redline, but VI seems almost 2x higher than Maxima 5, Spectro 85/150, Motorex 2.5 (their VI@ 150 iirc). Usually pay closer attention to VI when matching the #s for shocks...anyone else use redline?
    The only open bath Manitou has is one leg of the current Dorado. I use Motorex, it's the most slippery oil I've found. VI on Motorex 2.5 is somewhere north of 250 these days. Previous formulations were around 200.

    Even on rides where my rear shock is getting too hot to touch I can't feel any significant heat in the damper stanchion. Clearly the crown etc are very good at sinking away heat and cooling.

    But stiction in the damper isn't a problem. For lower leg bushings Supergliss is the best I've found in the warm (above freezing). It gets too thick in the cold and slows the fork down. Manitou Semi-Bath is the best all-rounder but isn't currently available at retail level.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    The only open bath Manitou has is one leg of the current Dorado. I use Motorex, it's the most slippery oil I've found. VI on Motorex 2.5 is somewhere north of 250 these days. Previous formulations were around 200.

    Even on rides where my rear shock is getting too hot to touch I can't feel any significant heat in the damper stanchion. Clearly the crown etc are very good at sinking away heat and cooling.

    But stiction in the damper isn't a problem. For lower leg bushings Supergliss is the best I've found in the warm (above freezing). It gets too thick in the cold and slows the fork down. Manitou Semi-Bath is the best all-rounder but isn't currently available at retail level.
    Ah, thanks...for some reason I thought the difference between Mattocs was that the pro was the sealed damper while expert was the open damper...remembering Dorado etched on the knob, must be on the air spring top cap instead
    ...

  16. #2316
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    Thanks for the replies. I heard back from manitou tech support who confirmed that the bottom spacer is only required on the air spring side.


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  17. #2317
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    I tried to change the travel on Magnum 27.5+ 120mm by following the Mattoc travel change guide at https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conten...Guide-REV5.pdf

    On page 8 step 7 asks to push the compression rod all the way in. But on my fork there seems to be hard stop. About 15mm of the compression rod will be visible and the Park Tool FR5 tool will not engage the splines. Is this specific to Magnum?

    I will try to cut the slot into the cassette tool, I hope the steel is not too strong. But this is not ideal solution because I cannot use the torque wrench.

  18. #2318
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    Use a crows foot with the torque wrench. It will alter the torque a bit, so it depends how precise you want it, however you can calculate it.

  19. #2319
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    I tried to change the travel on Magnum 27.5+ 120mm by following the Mattoc travel change guide at https://www.manitoumtb.com/wp-conten...Guide-REV5.pdf

    On page 8 step 7 asks to push the compression rod all the way in. But on my fork there seems to be hard stop. About 15mm of the compression rod will be visible and the Park Tool FR5 tool will not engage the splines. Is this specific to Magnum?

    I will try to cut the slot into the cassette tool, I hope the steel is not too strong. But this is not ideal solution because I cannot use the torque wrench.
    Magnum has longer shafts. Might need to take out the air-cap and attached spacers to get that much compression.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  20. #2320
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Magnum has longer shafts. Might need to take out the air-cap and attached spacers to get that much compression.
    I took the aircap out, but it didn't help. Looks like the inner diameter if the upper part of the stanchion is smaller.

    Yes, I need crow-foot. I cannot find them locally, must find some good European webshop.

    Btw, is it correct that Magnum takes 15cc of oil in legs?

  21. #2321
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    I've been on my Mattoc for about 20 hours so far. Before buying i read about 60% of this thread and went for it.

    I have one question: Is anyone else having problems with axle coming loose.....?.....i have the new axle that uses the 6mm wrench.

    My axle is coming loose 2-3 times a ride. Sometimes when i've just done alot of climbing.

  22. #2322
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    Just bought another one from bikewagon to replace some older 36's i had on another bike.


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  23. #2323
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Climb View Post
    I've been on my Mattoc for about 20 hours so far. Before buying i read about 60% of this thread and went for it.

    I have one question: Is anyone else having problems with axle coming loose.....?.....i have the new axle that uses the 6mm wrench.

    My axle is coming loose 2-3 times a ride. Sometimes when i've just done alot of climbing.
    No issues for me. How tight are you running it?

  24. #2324
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    I will try to cut the slot into the cassette tool, I hope the steel is not too strong. But this is not ideal solution because I cannot use the torque wrench.
    About 10 minute work with diamond cutting wheel:


  25. #2325
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    About 10 minute work with diamond cutting wheel:

    How does this work for you? I tried the same thing, worked for one fork side, the other side it just slipped and would not grip. The two sides seemed a little bit different in size. This was on a Magnum fork. The slot was just wide enough to slip over the thicker of the rods.

  26. #2326
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    It worked without problems on the air spring side. I did not open the damper side, as this was brand new fork and I only wanted to increase the travel.

  27. #2327
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    IRT ordered and en route. Also getting some super slick grease from our good friend scar4me which should be here soon too! hopefully have IRT installed before this weekend for a ride.

  28. #2328
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    Is it normal that there is a gap between IRT cap and crown? I torqued the cap according to spec and it did not go any further. This is 120mm 27.5+ Magnum.


  29. #2329
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    Is it normal that there is a gap between IRT cap and crown? I torqued the cap according to spec and it did not go any further. This is 120mm 27.5+ Magnum.

    I don't have that gap on my mattoc


  30. #2330
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    I did some searching and found two different IVA assemblies:

    This is a picture from Magnum press-release:

    https://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb12127826/p5pb12127826.jpg

    This is picture from "Manitou Mattoc Expert/Pro Upgrade Kits" product page:

    https://www.universalcycles.com/imag...dium/77749.jpg

    Notice the o-ring position. On the first picture it is much closer to the top of the cap.

    I was assuming that Magnum and Mattoc share much of the parts, but looks like there are subtle differences.

  31. #2331
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    No issues for me. How tight are you running it?
    I tighten it pretty good. Didn't have an issue until my last 3 rides. When i say gets loose i'm saying like 1/4 of turn. Enough for slight wobble, where it would feel like worn out bearings in my hub. But after happening 3 rides in a row i'm getting concerned.

  32. #2332
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    Manitou Mattoc

    I figured out my mistake. When I inserted the IRT the floating piston did not go past the threads and the cap binded. Now I added some air when it happened and this forced the floating piston to go down. It was then easy to screw in the cap.

    The caps are in fact identical:



    It is interesting to see that Manitou has reduced the maximum air camber size using plastic spacer on IVA.

    IVA is 100mm long and IRT 132mm. I confirmed that even at max compression the piston is not touching the IRT shaft.

  33. #2333
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    Mattoc/Magnum and Shockwiz

    Shockwiz says that it is not compatible with Mattoc/Magnum Pro because there is no valve on the positive air side and the valve at the bottom will open the bypass in the piston.

    While investigating my "Magnum with IRT" case I found out that Manitou is making IVA caps for Mattoc Comp as well. Mattoc Comp is using ordinary ISO air spring with independent valve for positive air and should therefore be compatible with Shockwiz.

    But what if you take the Mattoc Comp IVA cap and put it on the Pro? I think that this would make the Pro compatible with Shockwiz as well. You can attach the Shockwiz to the top cap valve.

  34. #2334
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    Shockwiz says that it is not compatible with Mattoc/Magnum Pro because there is no valve on the positive air side and the valve at the bottom will open the bypass in the piston.

    While investigating my "Magnum with IRT" case I found out that Manitou is making IVA caps for Mattoc Comp as well. Mattoc Comp is using ordinary ISO air spring with independent valve for positive air and should therefore be compatible with Shockwiz.

    But what if you take the Mattoc Comp IVA cap and put it on the Pro? I think that this would make the Pro compatible with Shockwiz as well. You can attach the Shockwiz to the top cap valve.
    I'd expect so.
    But wouldn't want to say for sure if there were any wall thickness differences in the uppers.

    I'm sure it was dougal that mentioned you could make the mattoc dual air ages ago. The shockwiz would work as long as the chambers were separate when the valve was attached.

  35. #2335
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    I'm sure it was dougal that mentioned you could make the mattoc dual air ages ago. The shockwiz would work as long as the chambers were separate when the valve was attached.
    I thought about this too. Actually stock Mattoc/Magnum Pro are already "1.5 Air" If you would like to have more negative pressure than positive pressure then you can just compress the fork little bit before you disconnect the pump hose. It will increase the negative camber size at the equal pressure point, which is what Dual Air with higher negative air pressure effectively did. If you wanted to have higher positive pressure then this doesn't obviously work.

  36. #2336
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    I thought about this too. Actually stock Mattoc/Magnum Pro are already "1.5 Air" If you would like to have more negative pressure than positive pressure then you can just compress the fork little bit before you disconnect the pump hose. It will increase the negative camber size at the equal pressure point, which is what Dual Air with higher negative air pressure effectively did. If you wanted to have higher positive pressure then this doesn't obviously work.
    You obviously have missed the people who've turned the Mattoc's air valve into the equivalent of the old Nixon IT(infinite travel adjust).
    I tried one on mine.
    Made it out of an old shock pumps valve head, and allowed travel adjust out on the trail.
    Only problem is that it won't auto extend due to having only the damper back pressure, so it's a stopped only travel change.

    I'd give this a try from CRC:
    Manitou Magnum Air Cap 2015 | Chain Reaction Cycles
    only £15, and free returns if it looks like it won't fit

  37. #2337
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    Quote Originally Posted by arnea View Post
    Shockwiz says that it is not compatible with Mattoc/Magnum Pro because there is no valve on the positive air side and the valve at the bottom will open the bypass in the piston.

    While investigating my "Magnum with IRT" case I found out that Manitou is making IVA caps for Mattoc Comp as well. Mattoc Comp is using ordinary ISO air spring with independent valve for positive air and should therefore be compatible with Shockwiz.

    But what if you take the Mattoc Comp IVA cap and put it on the Pro? I think that this would make the Pro compatible with Shockwiz as well. You can attach the Shockwiz to the top cap valve.
    There are quite a few mattoc comps running the dorado air system now, and that is going to become permanent in the newest generation. Same goes for the magnum. The older version with iso air should be compatible.

  38. #2338
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    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    You obviously have missed the people who've turned the Mattoc's air valve into the equivalent of the old Nixon IT(infinite travel adjust).
    I tried one on mine.
    Made it out of an old shock pumps valve head, and allowed travel adjust out on the trail.
    Only problem is that it won't auto extend due to having only the damper back pressure, so it's a stopped only travel change.
    I noticed those. There was also a guy in Germany who manufactured them as well. But I did not realize that reducing travel this way is equivalent to increasing the negative air pressure in Dual Air system. Now it seems something I might want. Not for reducing the travel, but for making the fork more supple.

    Quote Originally Posted by scar4me View Post
    I'd give this a try from CRC:
    Manitou Magnum Air Cap 2015 | Chain Reaction Cycles
    only £15, and free returns if it looks like it won't fit
    There is also IVA kit for Comp: https://www.bike-components.de/en/Ma...c-Comp-p47317/

    I think the picture is generic, real thing should have air valve.

  39. #2339
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    Just got my IRT. I noticed Someone complained about it just having an air valve sticking out liable to get covered in mud etc. Mine came with a little air valve cap which looks cool. The shaft that the IRT piston sits on is also definitely metal, i recall someone in here saying. Hopefully get installed tonight!

  40. #2340
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamxrt View Post
    Just got my IRT. I noticed Someone complained about it just having an air valve sticking out liable to get covered in mud etc. Mine came with a little air valve cap which looks cool. The shaft that the IRT piston sits on is also definitely metal, i recall someone in here saying. Hopefully get installed tonight!
    Initially, they were being shipped without the cap but Manitou would shoot one to you in the mail if you asked.

  41. #2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by P_Nut View Post
    Hi guys,

    I have bought Manitou Mattoc Expert fork two weeks ago from CRC. At first, the fork did ride great, but after a couple of rides (i think today was the 4th ride), the fork developed weird clicking noise when it extends. When the fork compresses there is no noise, only when it extends. It is the same at the beginning or in the middle of the travel. So when the fork is doing its work its very rattly, like it's going to fall apart, especially on roots. It's also very annoying on climbs because the fork bobs very slightly and for every pedal stroke i hear: click-click-click...

    Here is a short video:

    Any ideas? Is it a case of sending the fork back on warranty or is it an easily fixable problem? I have written to Manitou support mail but they do not answer back.

    Thanks
    Hi mates,

    I´m having exactly the same issues. Same fork (Expert 27,5").
    If the solution doesn´t involve special tools, parts or extremely high handling skills, I´d like to fix it by myself.
    If not, I will face being without fork for several weeks, since my country´s distributor doesn´t admit warranty repairs if the fork was bought in an other country.
    Apart from the quoted, I didn´t find a similar topic in this thread, obviously nor a solution, so any advise will be highly appreciated.

    Cheers!

  42. #2342
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTSIDER08 View Post
    Hi mates,

    I´m having exactly the same issues. Same fork (Expert 27,5").
    If the solution doesn´t involve special tools, parts or extremely high handling skills, I´d like to fix it by myself.
    If not, I will face being without fork for several weeks, since my country´s distributor doesn´t admit warranty repairs if the fork was bought in an other country.
    Apart from the quoted, I didn´t find a similar topic in this thread, obviously nor a solution, so any advise will be highly appreciated.

    Cheers!
    I would take the damper apart and make sure both the compression and rebound pistons are tight. Sounds to me like one of them is loose and is causing a noise everything you switch from compression to rebound.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk

  43. #2343
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    Quote Originally Posted by croakies View Post
    I would take the damper apart and make sure both the compression and rebound pistons are tight. Sounds to me like one of them is loose and is causing a noise everything you switch from compression to rebound.

    Sent from my ONEPLUS A3000 using Tapatalk
    I checked thoroughly if there was anything loose. The only thing that I found suspicious is what you can see In the video.
    Now I'm thinking if the position of the spacer, washer and bumper at the lower of the rebound rod could be the cause.
    Thanks a lot!

    https://youtu.be/puYa1O2hx1I
    Last edited by OUTSIDER08; 03-22-2017 at 04:18 PM.

  44. #2344
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTSIDER08 View Post
    Hi mates,

    I´m having exactly the same issues. Same fork (Expert 27,5").
    If the solution doesn´t involve special tools, parts or extremely high handling skills, I´d like to fix it by myself.
    If not, I will face being without fork for several weeks, since my country´s distributor doesn´t admit warranty repairs if the fork was bought in an other country.
    Apart from the quoted, I didn´t find a similar topic in this thread, obviously nor a solution, so any advise will be highly appreciated.

    Cheers!
    I've fixed two clicking expert models. Both had the rebound check spring (which holds the blow-off shim under the rebound piston) jumped out of place. This lets the blowoff shim float and knock against the piston.

    When put back in place they haven't jumped out again.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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  45. #2345
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    I've fixed two clicking expert models. Both had the rebound check spring (which holds the blow-off shim under the rebound piston) jumped out of place. This lets the blowoff shim float and knock against the piston.

    When put back in place they haven't jumped out again.
    Now I remember to have seen that coil out of place, sorrounding the rod at it's bottom. I put it in place. I wonder why I dind't gave any importance.
    In fact, after reassembly, the sound dissappeared and went again after 15 miles or so.
    How can I avoid that coil to jump out of place again?
    Thanks!

  46. #2346
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    Quote Originally Posted by OUTSIDER08 View Post
    Now I remember to have seen that coil out of place, sorrounding the rod at it's bottom. I put it in place. I wonder why I dind't gave any importance.
    In fact, after reassembly, the sound dissappeared and went again after 15 miles or so.
    How can I avoid that coil to jump out of place again?
    Thanks!
    Check where the tail of the coil is. If it's on the ledge it should stay. But if it's hanging off the side then it'll likely lead the whole coil to follow a bit at a time.
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  47. #2347
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    IRT installed, went on a ride today but the weather was ****ing god awful and couldnt go very fast due to serious mudpools everywhere (ireland), except for one trail where i smashed my pr and 2nd best. The fork feels great! still need to play around. I cant put the pressure anywhere near the recommended settings for my weight (95kg) [70ish main /105 IRT) or else im limited to about 130/140mm travel, tho.

    I was one of those guys who was having travel issues not getting full amount.

    infact to even get 153mm travel which is the most i can get at the moment, i have to go to about 40 psi main chamber and 80 irt. i had the irt at 100 but it seemed to be limiting my travel too a bit.

    going riding again tomorrow and should be some big hits tomorrow with the place im going to so ill see how we fare at 40/80 psi It does feel alot better already though.

    I checked my oil height last night, but im confused about where i should be measuring it from. It was said "top of stanchion" which to me is the lip of the Stanchion inside the crow, so im not measuring from the top of the outside of the crown like was shown in manitous video. Because when i opened the fork, which is not long back from a manitou service centre (CRC in northern ireland), it was well over 90mm from the crown. When measured from the top of the stanchion inside the crown just below the threads, it was more like 75. I took it down to 80mm. Not sure how much that helped, might take out more.


    I wonder is it possible that my air piston assembly is possibly limited to 150mm travel by accident at factory.. i half remember seeing a spacer on it when i had it apart a couple of months ago (before it was sent for repairs).

    for a 27.5mm 160mm mattoc, should there be any plastic spacers on the compression rod assembly when opened???

  48. #2348
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    Video looks like damper fluid is measured from the top of the crown iirc

    Should damper fluid be measured below the threads, that's a bit of a difference there?
    ...

  49. #2349
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    Manitou oil heights are from the top of the crown.

    Simple check for your correct oil height. Pull the lowers off and see if you can compress the shaft fully by hand. If you can't then it's wrong.
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  50. #2350
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    Quote Originally Posted by adamxrt View Post
    for a 27.5mm 160mm mattoc, should there be any plastic spacers on the compression rod assembly when opened???
    No spacers inside the negative chamber for 160mm travel 27.5mode.
    1spacer under the bottomout​ bumper.

  51. #2351
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Manitou oil heights are from the top of the crown.

    Simple check for your correct oil height. Pull the lowers off and see if you can compress the shaft fully by hand. If you can't then it's wrong.
    When i opened it, after it had not long been back from the service centre, with a brand new damper isntalled, after i broke the last one, it was like 90mm from the crown, a clear oil.

    hmmmm


    In other news, a very very very wet and muddy weekend over, i got some decent but disgusting riding in. I achieved what i think was a full 160mm on one drop where the take off was soo muddy i was not in the right position and nearly went over the bars. so not too worried anymore about travel, more about having too little oil in!! wtf!!

    I had to send my fork back under warranty to get anew damper after my rod snapped, CRC in northern ireland, who are a manitou service centre, installed a new one and did the oil heights etc.

  52. #2352
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    Gents, had a few questions for the group... What kind of tire clearance do you guys have with these forks? I'm looking to run maxxis minions 26x2.8 (so roughly 2.6 wide in the real world) and wondered if they will fit?

    Second, is the only difference between the pro and the pro 2 the iva? I couldn't find anything else from reviews or their website...

  53. #2353
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    So I recently got a Mattoc Expert from CRC for my sons new Rune.
    Its only got 4 clicks on the rebound so I've contacted Manitou for the update on that and they have promised to send it out to me.
    BUT
    It seems to have come with the IVA which I thought I was going to have to purchase separately- Bonus
    Anyone else seen this?

  54. #2354
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    I can't say for certain, however 26x2.8 should fit quite easily. Plenty of clearance for 27.5x2.6 (measuring a true 2.5") and the main concern is the tyre height, so 26" tyres should be fine. The only issue I can think of is whether the smaller diameter makes the tread line up poorly with the buldges in the lowers.

  55. #2355
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    Quote Originally Posted by I Like Dirt View Post
    So I recently got a Mattoc Expert from CRC for my sons new Rune.
    Its only got 4 clicks on the rebound so I've contacted Manitou for the update on that and they have promised to send it out to me.
    I thought the Expert only had four clicks and the Pro nine?

  56. #2356
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    Quote Originally Posted by Notched View Post
    I thought the Expert only had four clicks and the Pro nine?
    They updated the expert rebound for more clicks at some point.

  57. #2357
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    Quote Originally Posted by phreeky View Post
    I can't say for certain, however 26x2.8 should fit quite easily. Plenty of clearance for 27.5x2.6 (measuring a true 2.5") and the main concern is the tyre height, so 26" tyres should be fine. The only issue I can think of is whether the smaller diameter makes the tread line up poorly with the buldges in the lowers.
    Cool, thanks! I'll have to pick one up.

  58. #2358
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    Just a quick one. 7ml or 15ml of fox gold semi-bath in each leg of the lowers?


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  59. #2359
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    Just a quick one. 7ml or 15ml of fox gold semi-bath in each leg of the lowers?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

    I use 10ml and have had no issues with oil getting sucked into the damper. Wouldn't go any higher th an that though.

  60. #2360
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    Manitou Mattoc

    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I use 10ml and have had no issues with oil getting sucked into the damper. Wouldn't go any higher th an that though.
    Thanks mate, i chucked in 10ml.

    So i pulled my new for apart to do the wheel size conversion, again( I bought a a mattoc about a month ago from bikewagon for a ht build and liked it so much i replaced the bike on my dually)

    The high speed compression dial doesn't have the full range of clicks (only 4 it is supposed to have 5) and becomes quite hard to move at either end of it's limit. This is not an issue on my other mattoc.

    I have checked the 13mm washer and also the screw in the hbo adjuster to make sure the weren't over tightened. They were all good, in fact without either done up it is still laboured movement.

    This leads me to believe it might have too much oil in the damper. Am i right in thinking this? I was careful checking the height but the fork or syringe may have been on a slight angle.

    The only thing i did differently when converting wheel sizes was not to ball up a rag and stuff it in the too of the staunchion for rebuilding. (It ended with oil everywhere last time...)

    I just put the air spring in place then filled the damper, cycled the rebound and installed the damper then put semi bath in the lowers and snug it up.

    Has anyone else experienced this? Should i re check the oil? Is it critical to complete the steps in the exact order shown on the manitou wheel conversion video?

    Sorry about the essay

  61. #2361
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Check where the tail of the coil is. If it's on the ledge it should stay. But if it's hanging off the side then it'll likely lead the whole coil to follow a bit at a time.
    Hi Dougal, you were absolutely right. The coil was a mess!
    I hope it will stay in place, I´m afraid the ledge is pretty small
    Thanks a lot!
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  62. #2362
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    Hey guys,

    Just received my Mattoc 2 Pro. Been running the original Mattoc for almost 2 years and the 2 went on sale on CRC so bought the bullet for the updates..and Colour change.
    Anyway, I'm rather used to servicing my old one, so decided to service the new one when it arrived to check lube levels/etc.
    Upon putting all back together i noticed the rebound know would not turn at all...
    Even if I use a 5mm socket to grip it...not luck.
    I cannot for the life of me remember whether it turned before the tear down and I am 99% certain it wasn't something I did as have done the same thing many times on the old one.
    So my questions...what may have cause it, anyone had anything similar and lastly...any ideas on how to fix it.

    Shot for the help and looking forward to riding the new one

  63. #2363
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    Hi Dougal,

    As you tune manitou stuff regularly could you please post some pics of proper modified comoression and rebound shimstacks?
    Would a 2 stage compression stack do any good and what effect would a proper Pyramide stack have?
    How does midvalve on the rebound stack look?
    What stack should I do to get a even better Tradition between lsc and hsc to save my forearms from tiring on long days?
    Some pictures would be much appreciated.
    Thanks very much :-)

  64. #2364
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    Anyone experienced any harsh top out on their mattoc? Is there a simple fix?


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  65. #2365
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    Manitou Mattoc

    Quote Originally Posted by J: View Post
    Anyone know the width measurement @ the inner arch bulge there (roughly)...or height measurement from top of axle to arch?? Trying to get an idea for rim width / tire height clearance. Smaller side knobs will be used w/ the wider 559 rimz installed. TIA
    Quote Originally Posted by patrick2cents View Post
    Gents, had a few questions for the group... What kind of tire clearance do you guys have with these forks?
    Measured clearances from TOP of axle (add 7.5mm for the 15mm axle)

    Axle to arch ~ 355mm
    Axle to bulge ~ 299mm
    Bulge to bulge ~ 73mm
    ...

  66. #2366
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    Harsh top out on dorado air is usually caused by the fork being over extended(shock pump was removed with the top out bumper compressed)
    Try compressing the fork with a pump attached then extending it until you feel contact with the top out bumper.

  67. #2367
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sectornaut View Post
    Harsh top out on dorado air is usually caused by the fork being over extended(shock pump was removed with the top out bumper compressed)
    Try compressing the fork with a pump attached then extending it until you feel contact with the top out bumper.
    Top out is caused by the negative air chamber not filling or pressurising properly.

    Check valve rod protrusion (1.3mm is my magic number) and try a different pump if that checks out.
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  68. #2368
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Top out is caused by the negative air chamber not filling or pressurising properly.

    Check valve rod protrusion (1.3mm is my magic number) and try a different pump if that checks out.
    Poppet valve was all good dougal, i checked with the shock pump attached as you suggested and it cycles through travel easily. Seems to be all sorted now, will see how it holds up on a proper ride. Thanks a bunch for your help via shockcraft. Legend.

  69. #2369
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    I am trying to decide between upgrading my xfusion sweep with the roughcut hsc or buy an used mattoc with IRT. I like how most of the mattocs adjustments have only 5 clicks, the simpler the better for me. I also just got a McLeod on the rear. lHas anyone ridden both and have a comparison?

  70. #2370
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    Why do i need the HBO Bumper...?........I'm an aggressive rider. We have rocky terrain here but not alot of huge hits. I've never had bottom out issues in any of my forks that some HSC couldn't handle. I would just like the fork to be a little more free at the end of the stroke.

    I'm 195 pounds.
    I run all settings wide open.
    IRT - 45/95.

    I'm only getting about 125mm of travel out of 150....

  71. #2371
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Climb View Post
    Why do i need the HBO Bumper...?........I'm an aggressive rider. We have rocky terrain here but not alot of huge hits. I've never had bottom out issues in any of my forks that some HSC couldn't handle. I would just like the fork to be a little more free at the end of the stroke.

    I'm 195 pounds.
    I run all settings wide open.
    IRT - 45/95.

    I'm only getting about 125mm of travel out of 150....
    HBO only works in the last 20mm. So if you only get 125mm then the fork is stopping before HBO.

    Check your damper oil levels. The fork should be able to fully compress when you connect a pump.
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  72. #2372
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    HBO only works in the last 20mm. So if you only get 125mm then the fork is stopping before HBO.

    Check your damper oil levels. The fork should be able to fully compress when you connect a pump.
    Thanks, will check that. I did check the oil height over the weekend. that was my first thought also. I used one of the syringe height measured tools. I made sure height was 77mm for my PRO2.

    I actually just measured my travel from last night was 115mm. They way i rode and the trails i would have expected 135-140mm...
    Last edited by Cant Climb; 04-13-2017 at 08:34 AM.

  73. #2373
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Climb View Post
    Thanks, will check that. I did check the oil height over the weekend. that was my first thought also. I used one of the syringe height measured tools. I made sure height was 77mm for my PRO2.

    I actually just measured my travel from last night was 115mm. They way i rode and the trails i would have expected 135-140mm...
    Yes, do what Dougal recommended. Dump out all the air, from both the main and the IRT and see if you get full travel. It should very easily get to 155mm. The last few mm come from the bumper and can be harder to get.

    Also, when you attach a pump, add some air and with the pump still attached, push the fork up and down. It should feel very spongy. That is a sign that both chambers are being filled.

    Also, you may want to back off on the IRT a bit. Try something like 50/90 or even 50/80 to start.
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  74. #2374
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    Thanks for replies. Yes, fork is getting full travel doing the test Dougal suggested.

    Rode last night, played with air pressures. I think the fork is very sensitive to air pressure. Gonna experiment next few rides, see if i can get the fork where i want it....not quite there yet.

    I wish Manitou would take the lead and dump Air springs on this type of fork.
    My 1998 X-Vert R had TPC and Ti coil springs...i'd love to go back to that.

  75. #2375
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Climb View Post
    Thanks for replies. Yes, fork is getting full travel doing the test Dougal suggested.

    Rode last night, played with air pressures. I think the fork is very sensitive to air pressure. Gonna experiment next few rides, see if i can get the fork where i want it....not quite there yet.

    I wish Manitou would take the lead and dump Air springs on this type of fork.
    My 1998 X-Vert R had TPC and Ti coil springs...i'd love to go back to that.
    Actually, I find the air spring in the Mattoc to be the most similar to coils. And yes, you are right, the fork and the IRT in particular are very sensitive to air pressure. A little changes things in a big way.

    Also, don't use Prep-M on the IRT piston, it is too thin and comes off. Use slick honey.
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  76. #2376
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    Actually, I find the air spring in the Mattoc to be the most similar to coils. And yes, you are right, the fork and the IRT in particular are very sensitive to air pressure. A little changes things in a big way.

    Also, don't use Prep-M on the IRT piston, it is too thin and comes off. Use slick honey.
    I put that PTFE grease on the IRT seal. Is that OK.......?...I couldn't find the Prep-M anywhere....

  77. #2377
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    Back your IRT pressure right off if you're not getting full travel. It is very easy to overspring the fork with IRT.
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  78. #2378
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cant Climb View Post
    I put that PTFE grease on the IRT seal. Is that OK.......?...I couldn't find the Prep-M anywhere....
    Should be ok. Don't use prep m anyway, it was great years ago, but there are much better products that stay in place better now. Slicoleum/slick honey are the industry standard.

  79. #2379
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    My mattoc seems to have developed this weird ticking sound. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm pretty sure i read a similar tale of woe in this thread somewhere. Tried putting some loctite 290 around the steerer and crown. Ticking is still there. Might try put some between the crown and the stanchions. Pretty much looking for diy solutions if anyone has any suggestions?


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  80. #2380
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    My mattoc seems to have developed this weird ticking sound. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm pretty sure i read a similar tale of woe in this thread somewhere. Tried putting some loctite 290 around the steerer and crown. Ticking is still there. Might try put some between the crown and the stanchions. Pretty much looking for diy solutions if anyone has any suggestions?


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    To isolate a creak you need to pull the CSA out, clamp it in a stand and push/pull on each tube.
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  81. #2381
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    My mattoc seems to have developed this weird ticking sound. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm pretty sure i read a similar tale of woe in this thread somewhere. Tried putting some loctite 290 around the steerer and crown. Ticking is still there. Might try put some between the crown and the stanchions. Pretty much looking for diy solutions if anyone has any suggestions?


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    Pull the fork from the bike and test by pushing and pulling the legs. I've sent in my 2015 Mattoc twice, its on its third CSA. Hayes has replaced it everytime for free, replaced the damper once and even updated the air-piston seal. It seems like after every bike park season, it develops that creak. But Hayes' customer service is stellar, and the damper on the Mattoc and Magnum is amazing which is why I still use their forks on my two bikes along with my wife's mountain bike.

  82. #2382
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    Quote Originally Posted by thedrizzle View Post
    My mattoc seems to have developed this weird ticking sound. Has anyone else experienced this? I'm pretty sure i read a similar tale of woe in this thread somewhere. Tried putting some loctite 290 around the steerer and crown. Ticking is still there. Might try put some between the crown and the stanchions. Pretty much looking for diy solutions if anyone has any suggestions?


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    Red loctite and heat then prop it up...need to do the top side before crown race goes on...let it sit over night after each application ; )
    ...

  83. #2383
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    Hi guys I have a Mattoc Comp:
    https://www.manitoumtb.com/products/legacy/mattoc/

    And wonder if I can upgrade the compression damper with the one for Expert/Pro - example:
    Manitou Mattoc Expert Compression Assemblies 2015 | Chain Reaction Cycles

    Any thoughts?

  84. #2384
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    Quote Originally Posted by pr3d4t0r View Post
    Hi guys I have a Mattoc Comp:
    https://www.manitoumtb.com/products/legacy/mattoc/

    And wonder if I can upgrade the compression damper with the one for Expert/Pro - example:
    Manitou Mattoc Expert Compression Assemblies 2015 | Chain Reaction Cycles

    Any thoughts?
    I can't say for sure but you would have to change the rebound assembly as well.

  85. #2385
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    Quote Originally Posted by Boom King View Post
    I can't say for sure but you would have to change the rebound assembly as well.
    Won't work. Comp uses different aluminum with thicker walls for the stanchions, so it won't fit.

  86. #2386
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Won't work. Comp uses different aluminum with thicker walls for the stanchions, so it won't fit.
    Thanks!

  87. #2387
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    how does the mattock 2 pro compare to the pike? my 26 pikes have developed play in the left leg so I'm on the look out for a new fork. I quite fancy the mattock instead of the pike. its going on a transition suppressor so interested to hear from anyone that is riding a 650b fork with 26inch wheels?

  88. #2388
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    how does the mattock 2 pro compare to the pike? my 26 pikes have developed play in the left leg so I'm on the look out for a new fork. I quite fancy the mattock instead of the pike. its going on a transition suppressor so interested to hear from anyone that is riding a 650b fork with 26inch wheels?
    I have not run the fork as a 650b with a 26" wheel but do run a mattoc as a 26" fork. Most of the demo bikes I try either have a Pike or a Fox 34 so I have been able to compare the Mattoc to most of these other forks. The Mattoc in many ways is similar to the Pike. The small bump compliance is similar and I actually find the big-hit and jump performance of the Mattoc to be better. The Mattoc has a very linear feel but bottomless at the same time. I never feel that I have pushed the fork to the limit - which really urges me to go faster and faster.

    Also, the fork is very easy to service and maintain. To me, this is a big plus. Change bath oil twice a year and that is about it.
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  89. #2389
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    well I've ordered one with the IRT mod.

  90. #2390
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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    how does the mattock 2 pro compare to the pike? my 26 pikes have developed play in the left leg so I'm on the look out for a new fork. I quite fancy the mattock instead of the pike. its going on a transition suppressor so interested to hear from anyone that is riding a 650b fork with 26inch wheels?
    I've got both, Mattoc Expert near new for sale actually, and to be honest the Mattoc is just as good. To be honest if I had it to do over I wouldn't have bought the Pike and would sell it but I've already matched all my parts to the fork stickers and don't wanna mess with swapping them around. I would say between the two on performance it's a push. Pike is slightly better on really rough rock gardens due to stiffness but the mattoc is just as good everywhere else and actually plusher especially on drops like mentioned above. Where the Mattoc truly wins though is on price and serviceability. Don't get me wrong I like my Pike but the Mattoc to me was just as good almost everywhere and half the price.

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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    well I've ordered one with the IRT mod.
    One other mod that you can do that was recommended by mullen119 is to move to 34 SKF seals (the green ones) and Fox gold fluid for bath oil. Don't have to do it right away but it does make the fork even plusher. The only negative is that the Fox gold becomes molasses when the temps go below 45.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    One other mod that you can do that was recommended by mullen119 is to move to 34 SKF seals (the green ones) and Fox gold fluid for bath oil. Don't have to do it right away but it does make the fork even plusher. The only negative is that the Fox gold becomes molasses when the temps go below 45.
    Manitou have new seals on the way. The same low-friction and low temperature versions developed for the Mastodon.

    They also tested a massive range of oils. Supergliss is the best in the warm. Semibath (it's back on the menu) is the best all-round and works great in the ice.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Manitou have new seals on the way. The same low-friction and low temperature versions developed for the Mastodon.

    They also tested a massive range of oils. Supergliss is the best in the warm. Semibath (it's back on the menu) is the best all-round and works great in the ice.
    I was going to post this, but didn't think we were supposed to talk about it yet.

    The new seals are better than the green skf seals. I don't think they are available aftermarket yet, but it's worth the wait imo.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    I was going to post this, but didn't think we were supposed to talk about it yet.

    The new seals are better than the green skf seals. I don't think they are available aftermarket yet, but it's worth the wait imo.
    Talking about what?

    They're not out yet. But they're on the way.
    Owner of www.shockcraft.co.nz and NZ Manitou Agent.
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    That would be nice. I can't say the old system with the oil seal and dust seal was bad. Once broken in I found them to be fine. I also liked how there would be zero loss of bath oil over time. I don't know if it was the SKF or the Fox gold but they do feel a little better. But when the bath oil goes, it goes and you can feel it!
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    Fork arrived but need to fit it which I'll do soon then the tinkering with pressures can begin.

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    ok fitted it and I've got 50psi in the main chamber and 80psi in the IRT, I've left the LSC, HSC and HBO fully open for the now as I've only had limited testing. It seems well balanced with my coil.

    First thing is the mattock for me is better over high speed impacts over tree roots etc than my pike was (with luftkappe). used 112mm of travel but never did anything large so need to wait till I hit 4-5ft drops







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    Quote Originally Posted by Vespasianus View Post
    That would be nice. I can't say the old system with the oil seal and dust seal was bad. Once broken in I found them to be fine. I also liked how there would be zero loss of bath oil over time. I don't know if it was the SKF or the Fox gold but they do feel a little better. But when the bath oil goes, it goes and you can feel it!
    Current Manitou seals are as good as it gets for forks with dedicated oil seals. Less contact points mean less friction though, this is why the switch is being made. Most high performance seals are down to two contact points with the stanchion, so they had to adapt.

    Manitou did a good job of walking the fine line between low friction and proper sealing. No details, but once available aftermarket, don't buy the skf seals anymore. There are tests that back up that statement.

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    Quote Originally Posted by POAH View Post
    ok fitted it and I've got 50psi in the main chamber and 80psi in the IRT, I've left the LSC, HSC and HBO fully open for the now as I've only had limited testing. It seems well balanced with my coil.

    First thing is the mattock for me is better over high speed impacts over tree roots etc than my pike was (with luftkappe). used 112mm of travel but never did anything large so need to wait till I hit 4-5ft drops






    Man, nice bike!
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    Is it difficult to modify the rebound damper shim stack? I have a mattoc expert (the one with 8 or 9 clicks setting) and I could use some more rebound damping. I'm 96kg without gear and the knob is already al the way on the + side.

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