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  1. #1
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    Is the Lyrik coil too linear??

    Contemplating the Lyrik coil but am nervous about it possibly being too linear. I have heard complaints about the Pike coil being too linear and bottoming too easily. I mostly ride Marzocchi which can be made progressive but I have a Manitou Flick with TPC+ and it is way too linear. With the proper spring for the proper sag, I can bottom it off a 1ft drop even with the low speed compression cranked and 7wt oil instead of stock 2.5wt. Just wondering if the Lyrik will behave the same way? Any feedback?

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryl
    Contemplating the Lyrik coil but am nervous about it possibly being too linear. I have heard complaints about the Pike coil being too linear and bottoming too easily. I mostly ride Marzocchi which can be made progressive but I have a Manitou Flick with TPC+ and it is way too linear. With the proper spring for the proper sag, I can bottom it off a 1ft drop even with the low speed compression cranked and 7wt oil instead of stock 2.5wt. Just wondering if the Lyrik will behave the same way? Any feedback?
    I found the Lyrik to be quite linear. Even with the proper spring I could still blow through the travel without trying TOO hard. Those who have ridden the coil Pike say that they feel very similar in regard to their linear nature.

  3. #3
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    Is linear a bad thing? I love linear forks, but I also ride lots of rocky trails.

    Are you into big drops which needs a progressive fork?

  4. #4
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    I personally like linear forks too. But, with the lack of adjustment to increase how progressive the fork is in its last bit of travel makes larger drops or hits use a lot, if not all your available travel.

    For trail riding I think that a linear fork feels VERY nice since it is so active.

  5. #5
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    So cranking up the high speed compression on the Lyric doesn't seem to help? I was hoping the HS compression on the Lyric would not behave the same was as the Pike which has no HS compression.

    With my Firefly I will bottom it on every ride (even rides without drops) and it feels like it uses too much travel just from weight transfer on really steep stuff so there isn't much travel left to handle the terrain.

  6. #6
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryl
    So cranking up the high speed compression on the Lyric doesn't seem to help? I was hoping the HS compression on the Lyric would not behave the same was as the Pike which has no HS compression.

    With my Firefly I will bottom it on every ride (even rides without drops) and it feels like it uses too much travel just from weight transfer on really steep stuff so there isn't much travel left to handle the terrain.
    The HS compression might help a little, but from my experience with the Lyrik I found that the range of compression adjustment was less than desirable. This was one of the main reasons that I was talking to RS about using a heavier wt oil in the fork, but they said it was a no go.

  7. #7
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    No problem with my PIKE coil. I might up the Compression just a bit for drops, but i never bottom it out.

  8. #8
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    I've got the Domain which is functionally the same as a Lyrik coil, except the Mission control damping, and bought the firm spring for my weight, it was much more linear feeling with the stock spring but with the proper spring it feels right and more progressive at the end of the stroke, done some 6ft size drops on it with no bottoming.

  9. #9
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    I've been beating the crap out of my coil Lyrik for over 6 months. Stock spring, 175lbs. I can honestly say I have yet to find hard bottom and I'm not one to baby my equipment.

    I had a coil Pike for 2 years prior, stock spring, behaved the same.

    My experience is completely opposite to be350's. I find Mission Control damping to be amazingly sensitive to adjustments, although HS is not used to control bottom out. BO is dependent on the inherent spring rate. Mission control does not equal Motion control found on Pike. Completely different system despite the similar names.

    One theme I've picked up on from reading these types of threads is that some riders tend to fall between spring rates which can create some issues because the stock is too soft or firm too firm, etc. Thankfully that hasn't happened to me, nor a large number of folks I personally know who ride Lyriks, Pikes & Domains.
    Last edited by The Squeaky Wheel; 10-01-2007 at 01:19 PM.
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  10. #10
    Bodhisattva
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    Quote Originally Posted by rroeder
    I've got the Domain which is functionally the same as a Lyrik coil, except the Mission control damping, and bought the firm spring for my weight, it was much more linear feeling with the stock spring but with the proper spring it feels right and more progressive at the end of the stroke, done some 6ft size drops on it with no bottoming.
    Rick...I'm with ya.

    But for the sake of clarity, mission control is not the same as motion control. Very different systems.
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  11. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel

    But for the sake of clarity, mission control is not the same as motion control. Very different systems.
    Right, that's why I said "except the Mission control damping", the diff in the damping systems won't affect bottoming or a linear vs progressive feeling.

  12. #12
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    Pike on one bike, Lyrik on another, both coil. One stiffer than stock on the Pike, stock spring on the Lyrik. No harsh bottoming on either one, though I've used full travel many times on both, and within 5-10mm of full plenty enough. After playing with the damping on both forks, I've ended up finding I like riding with them both full open in terms of the Floodgate. Pike I ride with the compression backed all the way off, and the Lyrik with 3 clisk of slow and fast compression damping.

    I'm a whopping 165# or so all geared up on the bike. (shrug) YMMV. Sag wise, I run very little, about half the suggested. I've tried softer/more sag, and find I prefer the firmer and taller ride of both forks that way.

    Some folks in the past have asked about adding more oil to the coil side, to see if that would add a bit more progressiveness. Anyone tried it? I've got about twice the suggested amount in my coil sides; can't notice a change in the ride, but it has kept things running smoother for longer, with less gunky build up around my outer seals.
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  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    My experience is completely opposite to be350's. I find Mission Control damping to be amazingly sensitive to adjustments, although HS is not used to control bottom out. BO is dependent on the inherent spring rate.
    I must say that my experiences with my Lyrik(s) were with the first run last year. So, that may have been a major contributor to my problems, but nonetheless I had problems. I thought that it was strange that the range of adjustment (LS and HS compression) was as lackluster as it was. Later I found that the LS on THIS fork was focked, but the HS still seemed to have some influence on the ride characteristics.

    In the end I did like the ride quality of the fork. I did feel that it was fairly linear and used up travel quite readily, but that was never a huge deal for me since I never intended it to be a full on FR fork. But, for that kind of money I sure didnt want to go through as much trouble as I did. But, then again Im willing to accept that it may have been a first run thing even considering others have had similar problems.

  14. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by henryl
    Contemplating the Lyrik coil but am nervous about it possibly being too linear. I have heard complaints about the Pike coil being too linear and bottoming too easily. I mostly ride Marzocchi which can be made progressive but I have a Manitou Flick with TPC+ and it is way too linear. With the proper spring for the proper sag, I can bottom it off a 1ft drop even with the low speed compression cranked and 7wt oil instead of stock 2.5wt. Just wondering if the Lyrik will behave the same way? Any feedback?
    If bottoming a coil fork very often then more preload or a firmer spring is needed. The next firmer spring will only change sag by about 1/8 inch with the same preload.

    You should bottom coil suspension occasionally or it's too firm (or the travel is too long) for your riding interest.

    The damping should be used for fine tuning for the type of terrain, soft for rougher terrain, and a little firmer for smoother and rolling terrain

    Damping alone is not going to stretch a trail-riding fork into a jump fork. Use an air fork and carry a pump if you don’t want to change springs for converting the travel use from trail riding with 2 – 3 foot jumps to bigger jump sessions.

    Just be sure the Lyrik has coils available firm enough for your weight and ride styles.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by The Squeaky Wheel
    One theme I've picked up on from reading these types of threads is that some riders tend to fall between spring rates which can create some issues because the stock is too soft or firm too firm, etc.
    Squeek is right, the Firefly you are riding is undersprung for your weight/riding style. I've had mulititudes of TPC forks and all performed as you described until I installed the proper spring for me (180# - firm spring). TPC+ has a narrow range of adjustment to match the spring. For me this means I am always within a good riding range at either extreme of adjustment.When I DJ I crank up comression and get no bottom, and trail riding compression is more open for a very active fork, DH with light drops is full open for a rediculously active fork.

    What this means for the Lyrik; if the Lyrik is linear, a turn of the knob can set damping to match riding if the sring is matched to your weight and or riding style. If you are a set it and forget it rider, then make sure what you get has some progressiveness.

    P

  16. #16
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    Love my Lyrik Coil

    I have been riding a U-Turn Lyrik Coil for 6 months now and I like the linear feel of the fork - that is why I bought it over an air fork.

    I have played with mine; especially at Keystone, CO; a real torture test for suspension and I run the floodgate fully open, low speed compression at 4 clicks, and high speed at 8 clicks.

    I am also running the one up from stock firmer spring at ridign weight of 200 pounds.

    Great fork! No creaks, groans, clicks, etc. and I have used all but 5-10 mm of travel on a nose over at Winter Park at the dock at the beginning of the downhill trail - brain fart, stopped pedaling and nosed over, but rode it out and kept going. The fork took one for the team and I kept the rubber side down.
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  17. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by steve47co1
    Great fork! No creaks, groans, clicks, etc. and I have used all but 5-10 mm of travel on a nose over at Winter Park at the dock at the beginning of the downhill trail - brain fart, stopped pedaling and nosed over, but rode it out and kept going. The fork took one for the team and I kept the rubber side down.
    Nicely said.

    Mine has saved my noggin' on several occasions as well, including one sloppy 3 foot nose drop this weekend in Moab. I have zero complaints with my Lyrik & dig the fact that I have the 1.5 HT (placebo effect or not)
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  18. #18
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    My substitute for that is..........

    I am still running a 1 1/8" HT on my '06 RFX but I do have a Chris King Steelset - the extra insertion makes me feel better.

    Sorry I missed the THC Moab portion this year - woke up Friday morning feeling punk and actually started driving West from Steamboat, but kept feeling progressively worse and turned around and went home to bed for the weekend.

    I guarantee you had a better weekend than me.
    The reason dogs have so many friends is that they wag their tail instead of their tongues.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by derby
    If bottoming a coil fork very often then more preload or a firmer spring is needed. The next firmer spring will only change sag by about 1/8 inch with the same preload.

    You should bottom coil suspension occasionally or it's too firm (or the travel is too long) for your riding interest.

    The damping should be used for fine tuning for the type of terrain, soft for rougher terrain, and a little firmer for smoother and rolling terrain

    Damping alone is not going to stretch a trail-riding fork into a jump fork. Use an air fork and carry a pump if you don’t want to change springs for converting the travel use from trail riding with 2 – 3 foot jumps to bigger jump sessions.

    Just be sure the Lyrik has coils available firm enough for your weight and ride styles.

    Thanks for all the feedback. I currently have two forks for my two trail bikes, a Marzocchi Z1 FR with HSCV and the Manitou Firefly with TPC+. The Z1 feels awesome, tracks the terrain perfectly, uses 80+% of its travel for an average trail ride, and will only bottom off big hits. The Firefly with the stock spring and the mods I indicated in my posts above yields proper sag but uses all its travel on an average trail ride (no drops). I can bottom it just by pushing down on the bars hard while riding. I have tried the next firmer spring but then the sag is not enough, it doesn't track the terrain, and it will still use most of its travel on an average trail ride (no drops).

    So I guess what I am hearing is most people don't have a problem with their Lyrik but it might behave similar to my Firefly if I am between spring rates. I guess after riding an all air fork (older Mars) that was too progressive and never came close to getting full travel and a coil fork that uses full travel too readily, the combination coil/air like my Marzocchi is the best setup. Too bad Marzocchi doesn't make an HSCV version of the 55, otherwise I would know exactly which fork to buy.

  20. #20
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    I'm not understand how something can be "too" linear. By the very definition of the word, something is either linear or it's not. If you bottom it out, you're either riding a fork with not enough travel, or you should upgrade to a stiffer spring.

  21. #21
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    "I have tried the next firmer spring but then the sag is not enough, it doesn't track the terrain, and it will still use most of its travel on an average trail ride."

  22. #22
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    I too believe you just need a stiffer spring. Try loosening up the rebound a bit if you want better "terrain tracking".

  23. #23
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    Well,
    apart from the fork/damping the rider abilities and especially frame geometry have a big influence on fork spring rates/bottoming. My large SX trail is really, really long compared to my Medium Heckler. I need different spring rates for both bikes, with the same fork!
    The Sx Trail is long enough to get me away with 5-10PSI less in my forks.
    I never ever managed to use all the travel on my 2006 66SL, even with 5w oil, different oil levels, myriads of different setups and ridiculously rough flat drops. My 150lbs were a bad combination with that fork and the long wheelbase of my Sx Trail.

    I now have a 2008 Fox 36 Talas RC2, I wanted to go for the Van R, because it was cheaper, but my LBS gave me the Talas RC2 instead, for almost the same $$
    I was greedy about going air again, but even without proper break in time, the Talas feels gigantic. I donīt know about 2007 and 2006 Talas forks. But the 2008 really feels awesome (to me).
    And the Travel adjust is perfect, I didnīt really miss it on my 66SL. But now that I have it again, I love it.
    And the Talas feels so much more balanced, together with my DHX Coil in the back.
    Really awesome, my SX Trail now feels exactly balanced and good for me.


    And I know, there are a lot of good forks out there. I think the Marzocchi forks work better for bigger riders, I had 7 or 8 Zocchis, they all felt ok, but never perfectly dialed for my flyweight, no matter how much I tinkered with all the parameters.

    I always liked Rock Shox and Manitou products, had a few, but also almost every single product I had, did fail or leak or make trouble. Thatīs no bashing or whatever, just based on my personal experience, I do not think thatīs statistically valid. But it did have influence on my recent fork choice.

    Now I am on my first Fox (ok test ridden quite some, but my first OWN Fox) and I love it. I hope it will hold up. But itīs really nice, the box you get the fork in is really stilish and well made, you open it and find a nice manual and a really helpful DVD, a nice shock pump and a really, really beatiful fork in there. The finish is awesome!

    And the fork is absolutely easy to adjust. Only one air chamber, handy LO and Hi speed comp and a nice rebound adjuster. I am stoked.


    Greetings Znarf

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