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  1. #1
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    Lets talk X Fusion dampers...

    Forward: I'm looking to piece together a new AM rig over the summer. Frame is bought and takes between 140mm and 160mm forks.

    I am trying to decide between the X-Fusion Vengeance HLR and the new yet-to-be-released Slant RL2. There are differences outside of the dampers (obviously) but I am curious what people think about the more tunable HLR vs the RL2. My research as turned up basically no issues with either damper longevity-wise, so is the extra tuning worth it?

    Thoughts?

    On a side note, the Vengeance is a 170mm but has an internal travel ladder that allows the stroke to be shortened. It is worth debating whether I should bother carrying around the 36mm stancheons and the extra travel when I more than likely would not use it. The Slant comes with the 34mm and 160mm out of the box.

  2. #2
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    *crickets*

  3. #3
    moaaar shimz
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    HLR is a superior damper plus the Vengeance has 20mm axle and 36mm stanchions.

  4. #4
    moaaar shimz
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    No, Slant has 15mm axle.

  5. #5
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    I think they both have the 20mm QR axle, and the stiffness of the 34 vs 36 can't be that noticeable. I don't weight much more than 130lbs so I don't really put much value in the stanchion. I think the through axle will provide more rigidity (but I might be wrong).

    I am leaning towards the HLR though, it would be nice to have high and low speed adjustment.

  6. #6
    moaaar shimz
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    I ride a Vengeance HLR.

  7. #7
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    I won't doubt you. I probably misread.

    So i'll take it the HLR is something you'd be happy to ride yourself?

  8. #8
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    That answers that :-)

    Now to wait until they clear out the 2012 inventory...

  9. #9
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    For anyone that's interested:

    X-Fusion Vengeance HLR Suspension Fork 170mm 1-1/8" Black

    Great price on the 2012. I am looking for white, but I thought i'd pass this along.

  10. #10
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    Just wondering if anyone had the Vengeance DLA without the gold knob low speed compression ? mine came only with blue knob (which is the high speed compression)...

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    Just to add....here are the pictures :





    From the 1st picture, you can see the right knob is the DLA, but the 2nd picture is only the blue knob (high speed compression which has abt 15 clicks)...my dealers says that his stock of Vengeance DLA are without the gold knob (low speed compression)....

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpies14 View Post
    my dealers says that his stock of Vengeance DLA are without the gold knob (low speed compression)....

    I have HLR DLA and I have both High speed and low speed compression adjustment.

  13. #13
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    Does the X-Fusion Slant only come with a RL2 damper (rebound damping adjustment and an on-off switch for lockout)?

  14. #14
    moaaar shimz
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    Quote Originally Posted by magpies14 View Post
    Just to add....here are the pictures :





    From the 1st picture, you can see the right knob is the DLA, but the 2nd picture is only the blue knob (high speed compression which has abt 15 clicks)...my dealers says that his stock of Vengeance DLA are without the gold knob (low speed compression)....
    Looks like you have a Vengeance RC DLA

  15. #15
    moaaar shimz
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    Quote Originally Posted by randan View Post
    Does the X-Fusion Slant only come with a RL2 damper (rebound damping adjustment and an on-off switch for lockout)?
    Yes.

  16. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    Yes.
    Thank you. So no adjustable compression on this fork?

  17. #17
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    I have two of the Vengeance forks. I have a HLR and a HLR Coil set up.

    They replaced a clapped out Float 36, and Vanilla 36. I would recommend the X-Fusion products pretty much every single time due to fork performance, support (call and they answer the phone!), and ease of set up.

    I had my HLR Air set up in under 5 minutes once it got out of the box, XFusion gave me some great initial set up recommendations and just fine tuned it from there. The fork is pretty awesome, stiff in the turns, no flex that I can feel, great suspension feel, easy to adjust, adjustment knobs make a difference ( go slow turns on the dial actually mean something) and lastly you just sort of forget about the fork being on the bike!

  18. #18
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    The compression circut on the slant (and velvet) fork can be adjusted internally by modifying the shim stack, not a very difficult just takes some time.

    With the new midstroke valving the need for external compression adjustments isn't quite as necessary as it can be on a larger fork with 170mm of travel.

    I have a slant coming in in a few weeks to go on my new 150mm bike, looking forward to riding it a lot!

    The vengeance is a fantastic fork, super adjustable, and a fantastically stiff chassis. In my opinion it is the ultimate bike park fork, and can handle nearly everything short of 35mph rock gardens (dual crown fork territory) (the dampers do take that riding with aplomb)

    Hope this helps!!
    matt

  19. #19
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    Yeah just confirmed that mine was indeed the RC DLA....

    Anyone knows how much clicks shud i turn for the compression ??

  20. #20
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    Increase until you are happy with the amount of brake dive the fork allows.

  21. #21
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    compression adjustment has a lot of variables, trails you ride, body weight, preload, and how strong you are.

    If you ride mostly machine built trails, or trails that aren't really rough you will want slightly more compression damping.

    If you ride rough, bumpy, rooty, rocky and nasty you will want slightly less damping, but enough to keep the fork from diving under braking, or riding too deep in its travel.

    If you are really strong, and can hold on to nearly anything without fatiguing even if its really rough, you can run more damping to keep the fork riding on the tops of the bumps. (think gwin at val di sole)

    then there's personal preference, but I can't help you there!


    Matt

  22. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnbkr View Post
    I have a slant coming in in a few weeks to go on my new 150mm bike, looking forward to riding it a lot!
    matt
    How's your Slant? Thinking about it for my Heckler build. Thanks.

  23. #23
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    I think the slants have yet to be released, so you might have to wait a little while longer to hear some feedback on them.

  24. #24
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    Heard the Slant is due in December. I'm curious too. Currently running a 2012 Velvet RL 140 on my 5.Spot and really like the feel, although I know the Spot would feel better with a 150 or 160 fork. The Slant RL2 is on my very short list. According to XF most of the 2012 Velvet RLs got the new RL2 damper with the secondary compression circuit (what XF has marketed for 2013 as "Mid Valve"). Pinkbike's February 2012 review talks about it. IMO while the RL2 is solid, effecient, and easy to set-up, the Slant RL2 might leave riders (of that caliber fork) looking for more "tunability". I could be wrong....but probably smart of XF to launch a new fork (new class) with a proven damper then upgrade the damper later with more adjustability if that's what the market wants...but I'm def stoked on X-Fusion.

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by trojan08 View Post
    (what XF has marketed for 2013 as "Mid Valve")
    Mid Valve is not a marketing term. A Mid Valve is when the check valve on a rebound damper is replaced by a weak shim stack, allowing the rebound damper to contribute to the compression circuit. Its something that is used in a few different applications including some PUSH fork tunes and Avalanche damper cartridges, but can lead to cavitation problems when not executed properly.

  26. #26
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    Looks like a slick fork!

    If they came out with a 20mm Velvet.. I'd probably be all over it.

  27. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by trojan08 View Post
    Heard the Slant is due in December. I'm curious too. Currently running a 2012 Velvet RL 140 on my 5.Spot and really like the feel, although I know the Spot would feel better with a 150 or 160 fork. The Slant RL2 is on my very short list. According to XF most of the 2012 Velvet RLs got the new RL2 damper with the secondary compression circuit (what XF has marketed for 2013 as "Mid Valve"). Pinkbike's February 2012 review talks about it. IMO while the RL2 is solid, effecient, and easy to set-up, the Slant RL2 might leave riders (of that caliber fork) looking for more "tunability". I could be wrong....but probably smart of XF to launch a new fork (new class) with a proven damper then upgrade the damper later with more adjustability if that's what the market wants...but I'm def stoked on X-Fusion.
    I just spoke to them a couple of days ago about this. The 2013 Slant and Vengeance won't be coming out until the beginning of 2013 with no specific dates. They wanted to get the Slant to market asap so it's just RL2. There may be another model later with HLR.

    I also ask about the ac measurements, where fork owners said their own personal measurements are higher than what is on XF website. The rep said the new models have lower ac numbers.

    This sucks for me because I was hoping to get either the 2013 Slant or Vengeance for my Heckler build. But now I either wait for probably at least 3 months or go with a Lyrik RC2DH

  28. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by chrisaz82 View Post
    Looks like a slick fork!

    If they came out with a 20mm Velvet.. I'd probably be all over it.
    20mm velvet?

  29. #29
    moaaar shimz
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    20mm axle

  30. #30
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    Ah, seems a bit overkill for 32mm stanchions imo but it certainly wouldn't hurt anything.

  31. #31
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    but why no 20mm for the Slant???

  32. #32
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    For anyone waiting for a Slant, I talked to John at the sales department about a week back. He said that he runs a custom Slant HLR, and it's about $1,000. I think that maybe the reason why they're just releasing it in RL2 and DLA.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by sneakyt View Post
    For anyone waiting for a Slant, I talked to John at the sales department about a week back. He said that he runs a custom Slant HLR, and it's about $1,000.
    Can one order a HLR Slant? I'll play!

    20mm is not overkill on a 32mm fork (130mm and up, that is). It suddenly became "overkill" when some companies started pushing the 15mm axle.

    My Pike, Revelation, Nixon. etc have been all nice and stiff with a 20mm axles.

    It would have been nice to have the 20mm axle on the Slant, but not a deal breaker. My hubs can be converted to 15mm.

    The HLR cartridge would be super-nice too. It would be a unique fork with a high-performance damper in the Trail-AM category.
    Check my Site

  34. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    Can one order a HLR Slant? I'll play!

    20mm is not overkill on a 32mm fork (130mm and up, that is). It suddenly became "overkill" when some companies started pushing the 15mm axle.

    My Pike, Revelation, Nixon. etc have been all nice and stiff with a 20mm axles.

    It would have been nice to have the 20mm axle on the Slant, but not a deal breaker. My hubs can be converted to 15mm.

    The HLR cartridge would be super-nice too. It would be a unique fork with a high-performance damper in the Trail-AM category.
    From the sound of it, I don't think they'll be releasing a Slant HLR anytime soon because of cost. But I agree with you that it would make for a great fork.

  35. #35
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    You have got it exactly right. There is no separate 650b fork for the Vengeance. You simply shorten the travel with the 10mm spacer (for coil) or one step in the ladder (for air) to 160 for the 650b tires.

    What extra adjustability are you referring to?

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by honns View Post
    You have got it exactly right. There is no separate 650b fork for the Vengeance. You simply shorten the travel with the 10mm spacer (for coil) or one step in the ladder (for air) to 160 for the 650b tires.

    What extra adjustability are you referring to?
    Actually the Vengeance is completely 650B compatible, no spacer required. Just slap the wheel in and go!
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  37. #37
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    Ah, good call. The spacer is for the Velvet, Vengeance has no spacer.

    Adjustability is good, but you need to know how to tune it. It is up to you whether you want to dive into high and low speed compression. You can get a Vengeance RC which only has low speed adjustment (though it has high speed compression, it is a fixed value). I got the HLR and am still tuning it after 3 months, but I am a relative newcomer to these kinds of adjustments. Don't let that scare you off though, once you get it set up correctly, it'll surely ride better than one without the adjustments.

  38. #38
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    I've been thinking of getting a vengance hlr dal, a lot of fork for the price.
    The thing that's putting me of is reports of creaking from the crown
    Is there a fix or has it been sorted ?
    Cheers.

  39. #39
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    What is the performance difference between the Vengeance HLR DLA and the Vengeance HLR? Is there just a half pound weight penalty or are there actual performance differences?

    Thanks!

  40. #40
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    HLR DLA has a travel adjuster.

    The normal HLR is fixed, if you want to make it longer/shorter you have to take the fork to pieces.

    The damper in both forks is the same, the DLA bit is the spring.

  41. #41
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    Anything is better than a ****ing fox. You won't be disappointed with an Xfusion, even with the stock cart.

  42. #42
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    I have Vengeance 2011 OEM which is basically Vengeance R.

    As this is a X-fusion damper thread, if anyone is curious how their damper looks like from the inside, here it is:

    Vengeance R damper - very simple design - 2 static seals and 1 dynamic seal

    <a href="http://s378.beta.photobucket.com/user/SEA707/media/Everyday%20Stuff/IMG_0095.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo224/SEA707/Everyday%20Stuff/IMG_0095.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

    <a href="http://s378.beta.photobucket.com/user/SEA707/media/Everyday%20Stuff/IMG_0094.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo224/SEA707/Everyday%20Stuff/IMG_0094.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

    <a href="http://s378.beta.photobucket.com/user/SEA707/media/Everyday%20Stuff/IMG_0093.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo224/SEA707/Everyday%20Stuff/IMG_0093.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>

    <a href="http://s378.beta.photobucket.com/user/SEA707/media/Everyday%20Stuff/IMG_0092.jpg.html" target="_blank"><img src="http://i378.photobucket.com/albums/oo224/SEA707/Everyday%20Stuff/IMG_0092.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"/></a>
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  43. #43
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    what do you think about him ?for AM+ clime..

    Quote Originally Posted by tacubaya View Post
    HLR is a superior damper plus the Vengeance has 20mm axle and 36mm stanchions.
    i will use only the 160 mm

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Flayer View Post
    I have Vengeance 2011 OEM which is basically Vengeance R.

    As this is a X-fusion damper thread, if anyone is curious how their damper looks like from the inside, here it is:

    Vengeance R damper - very simple design - 2 static seals and 1 dynamic seal
    Nice, I see that cartridge is pressurized. Does it have an IFP or it works on emulsified oil?

    Pretty good at any rate, much better than the orifice dampers on many forks. Moar shimz!!!!
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  45. #45
    moaaar shimz
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    Nice, I see that cartridge is pressurized. Does it have an IFP or it works on emulsified oil?

    Pretty good at any rate, much better than the orifice dampers on many forks. Moar shimz!!!!
    Yup.

    The R cartridge has an entirely different architecture than the HLR/RC cartridges. The HLR/RC is a closed-open bath high performance damper while the R is an inline rebound-only damper with an IFP.

  46. #46
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    Thread resurrection. Got my X-F Slant RL2 DLA 160/130 (26) today. Well, I should say it is purchased and is in safe hands AND I've seen a picture of it. Now I just have to find time to go get it over in the next County. Test run on 5/25/13. This should be interesting!

  47. #47
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    Nothing brilliant to add here, but here's my story. Early this spring I purchased a 2011 Veng HLR to go on my new 650b AM hardtail. It's very good but I think it needs a overhaul, it feels lacking compared to......

    I also recently purchased a 2012 Veng DLA HLR to replace my 2011 Fox 36 RLC (new when I got it last spring). HOLY CHIT! Best fork I have ever had the pleasure of riding. Buyer stated the fork wasn't used much and had a fresh service from xfusion (looked brand new too). The front end just disappears. Small chatter, floats right through, big hits at the mtb park, pooof, high speed braking, controlled. I can't imagine a fork performing any better unless the electronics coming in the near future work like magic.
    I wish the folks at X-Fusion continued success and a HUGE thank you for making a stellar product.
    -Joe

  48. #48
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    Good job!

    nothing to see here.
    Attached Thumbnails Attached Thumbnails Lets talk X Fusion dampers...-p5170914.jpg  

    Lets talk X Fusion dampers...-310195_10152824981135713_591271181_n.jpg  


  49. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by grnbkr View Post
    The compression circut on the slant (and velvet) fork can be adjusted internally by modifying the shim stack, not a very difficult just takes some time.
    Thread resurrection. Are you talking about the small shim stack behind the small secondary piston (the cup with a circle of small holes) Did you modify yours? what modification do you recommend? theres a thread in the suspension forum ( X-Fusion Slant Anyone? ) where someone recommnded removing the secondary piston and its shims entirely, but im wondering if it would be better to just remove one of the shims. Any info you could give me would really help.
    '14 rocky mountain altitude, rally edition
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