Inverted X-Fusion

[Fix the Spade]

Is it me, or do the legs look a little on the thin side?

I'd hazard a guess that the uppers are extruded or CNC and anodized rather than cast and powder coated. They do look skinnier than normal cast lowers.

[myarmisonfire]

I'd hazard a guess that the uppers are extruded or CNC and anodized rather than cast and powder coated. They do look skinnier than normal cast lowers.

I'd opt for the legs being turned on a lathe since it is a prototype. I doubt that they would invest the money to make the required tooling to extrude or forge a prototype. Casting would not be a good fit for this application. It would be super sweet if they produced a one piece forged steer tube/crown/upper leg assembly...

[Warp]

I'd opt for the legs being turned on a lathe since it is a prototype. I doubt that they would invest the money to make the required tooling to extrude or forge a prototype. Casting would not be a good fit for this application. It would be super sweet if they produced a one piece forged steer tube/crown/upper leg assembly...

They most probably are.

If you look closely at the pictures in the original article, even the crown bridge looks machined.

[mattsavage]

They most probably are.

If you look closely at the pictures in the original article, even the crown bridge looks machined.

Could be cast then machined. Alot of companies do that on components to fine tune the material.

[Warp]

Could be cast then machined. Alot of companies do that on components to fine tune the material.

Yeah, but for casting you can do only one mold (relatively on the cheap) besides, it would not be as strong for a crown.

I still don't think it's extruded/forged. That involves making expensive tooling unless what they're showing is an advanced prototype or sharing parts with something in production or close to be... or that was in production like the Specialized inverted fork? Wasn't that one made by X-Fusion?.

[derby]

I..... It would be super sweet if they produced a one piece forged steer tube/crown/upper leg assembly...

.... and carbon-fiber as an option, which could be lighter, stiffer, and more durable than aluminum.

A one piece steer tube/crown/upper leg could be close to the same stiffness, if not stiffer, and much lighter as a double-crown/triple-clamp design.

[PAmtbiker]

This thing is badass, and looks like it would be able to fit all wheel sizes. If they can make it stiff and light it should sell like hotcakes.

[mullen119]

.... and carbon-fiber as an option, which could be lighter, stiffer, and more durable than aluminum.

A one piece steer tube/crown/upper leg could be close to the same stiffness, if not stiffer, and much lighter as a double-crown/triple-clamp design.

As much as I love carbon, I hope that they stick with aluminum. I think the price may be out of reach for a lot of people (including me) if they go the carbon fiber route.

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

They would do carbon till they prove that Al is going to work.

[mullen119]

Bike Rumor posted about the pic. They wrote that X fusion is hoping for a 2015 release date. Thats to far away!

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

Perfect, it'll be time for a new fork about then.

[myarmisonfire]

They most probably are.

If you look closely at the pictures in the original article, even the crown bridge looks machined.

Yeah, the proto was machined on a mill. You can see the tool path in the finish. Final product won't be 3d milled like that. Cheaper for proto work. Too slow otherwise.

[tyrebyter]

I'll wait for one. It'll be worth it to have something that's not just the same recycled designs with more gimmicks attached (FIT, CTD, Motion Control, U-turn, TST2). I'm sick of gimmicks on mediocre forks instead of solid, properly damped designs. They can have all the adjustable travel, remote lockout, dual-air cr@p back; just give me a fork that feels like an Ohlins (which is USD, of course... oh, and stiff as well, thank you very much). Save us from the endless parade of pedestrian clone junk. Do it, X-Fusion. Do it soon. Do it for Mankind.

[mullen119]

At this point, I would consider buying a vengeance instead. Or if Manitou comes out with a 160-170mm fork with TPC+, I would be all over it. But they have been claiming one is in the works for 3 years now, So I am not holding my breath.


For that matter, I might just buy an Avy cartridge for my Lyrik and be done with it.

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

I'll wait for one. It'll be worth it to have something that's not just the same recycled designs with more gimmicks attached (FIT, CTD, Motion Control, U-turn, TST2). I'm sick of gimmicks on mediocre forks instead of solid, properly damped designs. They can have all the adjustable travel, remote lockout, dual-air cr@p back; just give me a fork that feels like an Ohlins (which is USD, of course... oh, and stiff as well, thank you very much). Save us from the endless parade of pedestrian clone junk. Do it, X-Fusion. Do it soon. Do it for Mankind.

I love my Dual Air!

[semmiho]

I have just found a very interesting picture on a German site. If it's true then X-Fusion have done something with the question of stiffness for their new USD fork.
X-Fusion Nabe PlusHub 35 110mm/35, 32-Loch - Gewicht von Teilen auf der Waage - MTB-News.de

[literally]

I have just found a very interesting picture on a German site. If it's true then X-Fusion have done something with the question of stiffness for their new USD fork.
X-Fusion Nabe PlusHub 35 110mm/35, 32-Loch - Gewicht von Teilen auf der Waage - MTB-News.de

That's the hub from the x-fusion delta 8 USD fork which was developed by bionicon as the 'special agent' and produced by x-fusion, 6 years ago. Notice the 4 bolt disc mount.

[Fix the Spade]

X-Fusion Revel HLR Fork - First Look - Pinkbike

It's happening!

My wallet's already got up and run away.

Confirmed from a year ago, it's using keyed stanchions like the HiLo does, although it would seem to have three per stanchion as opposed to two.

160mm travel, 20mm axle, HLR damper, 650b and 29er models only. Although in practice the 650 is just a 26er with a bit more offset.

Guesses on price anyone? I'm thinking 900-1000 Euro region to compete with Bos/ 36s and Pikes.

Also, DVO, X Fusion, German A and seemingly Ohlins too, the world's going upside down...

[honns]

That thing is blingy as f#@^.

[literally]

X-Fusion Revel HLR Fork - First Look - Pinkbike

It's happening!

Also, DVO, X Fusion, German A and seemingly Ohlins too, the world's going upside down...

Gotta say, i like the design of the crown from the proto much better than this (assumed) production model.

Nice to see a few manufacturers thinking of different ways to help with torsional stiffness to get these USD forks to market.

[Fix the Spade]

Just the colour to go with my teeth...

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

****, I hope they make it in red, or I'll have to buy all new gold parts.

[Fix the Spade]

The production models will likely come with black and white options, like everything else X Fusion sells.

[deematic]

Sub

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

Sub

sandwich

[half_man_half_scab]

Will it creak more or less than the modern csu?

[SpecialWarr]

God I hope not.... but as mentioned above... Blingy!!

[Kiwiplague]

Start saving boys and girls, MRSP is $1776usd! - More info from interbike - X-Fusion's Radical Revel HLR - Interbike 2013 - Pinkbike

[Fix the Spade]

Ho
Lee
She
Eat

That's about $500 more than I was expecting, plus a run of just two hundred units. They weren't messing around when they said it was 'exclusive,'

Ah well, with any luck it'll sell out rapid-like and there'll be a more mass production version, I still want one, even if it'll have to be second hand!

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

Only 200 made with free lifetime service. Sounds like 200 guinea pigs are going to get a fork. Mark my words, In about a year they'll be having them made in Asia, at half the price. Right after the Guinea pigs work out the bugs for them.

[Gerth]

At that price it better come with a pit bull to guard the damn thing so it doesn't get stolen!

[Kiwiplague]

You'd have to wonder whether they would make any money on only 200 forks, even at that price. I would have thought the R&D costs alone would make it hard to sell a very limited number of forks. Unless, like mentioned before, eventually they will make a cheaper version in Taiwan.

[mullen119]

You'd have to wonder whether they would make any money on only 200 forks, even at that price. I would have thought the R&D costs alone would make it hard to sell a very limited number of forks. Unless, like mentioned before, eventually they will make a cheaper version in Taiwan.

I think you're spot on. 1776 X 200= $355,200. Sounds like a lot of money, but I would bet its not enough to cover the R&D and manufacturing costs. At best they are breaking even. But in all honesty, its probably not about the money. Making the first lightweight/ torsionally stiff inverted single crown would go a long way in pushing X fusion to the top of the suspension market.

[mattsavage]

I don't think they need to make money on this... All the low cost oem stuff they pump out pays for it and then some. As in most industries, some companies just make things over the top cause they can.

[honns]

I don't think they need to make money on this... lost the lowest oem stuff they pump out pays for it and then some. As in most industries, some companies just make things over the top cause they can.

I agree with this. It's like the LFA is to lexus, they lose money on every one they make, but it drums up interest and sales in the lower price bracket. As X Fusion isn't at the level of the Fox or RS brand names in terms of recognition, this could make a difference in the long term. It is a cool fork, though excessive in almost every facet.

[Warp]

Unless, like mentioned before, eventually they will make a cheaper version in Taiwan.

Definitively I will wait for that one.

I think it's a marketing stunt to pump up brand recognition as mentioned... and if it works, then they will trickle it down.

It's a little disturbing that people pay these prices, though... it just gives ground to up the prices all along. If a 1700usd fork sells, a 1400 version will look like a bargain. But it is just the nature of the beast, so please dismiss my rant.

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

If it works, it will trickle down. If you think about it, the hole thing is genius. They get brand recognition. 200 people will be the envy of everyone. X-fusion will get lots of feedback from these 200 forks being serviced for free, and I'm sure they will provide upgrades when needed, at no cost. The fork is beautiful, it's a work of art. And, if you think about it $1700 for what is essentially a hand made works level fork is really a bargain, as long as it performs as advertised. And to summarize, if it works as promised, it will trickle down.

[Fix the Spade]

It's a little disturbing that people pay these prices, though... it just gives ground to up the prices all along. If a 1700usd fork sells, a 1400 version will look like a bargain. But it is just the nature of the beast, so please dismiss my rant.

There is an irony to X Fusion doing it though. The technology in their £450 forks (and the quality) is better than what certain other brands are selling for double, their Vengeance forks are £200 less than Lyriks and £3-400 less than Fox, Marzocchi and Bos, but better made than all three.

If it's the beginning of a price hike drive I wouldn't be surprised (but still disappointed), on the other hand if this thing is the prelude to an upside down fork priced to match Bos and co I'd be delighted (and buying one). More than the Vengeance, but with the extra cool stuff to justify it.

[literally]

couple more write ups and pics :

X-Fusion Revel HLR: golden upside-down enduro fork | Enduro Mountainbike Magazine

IB13: X-Fusion Officially Launches Revel Enduro Fork

[Jayem]

Travel options are 120-140 for the 29er and 160 for 650B

I have a 160mm pike on my 29er, lighter, with bigger stanchions and a forged crown (that welded crown freaks me out, such a critical part of the fork).

This fork is answering a question that no one is asking. Even the fox 34 is lighter. It's the same reason people bought the Shiver SC and Dorado SC though, because they were unique. It seems like this fork has some decent engineering to keep it from being too much of a noodle, but the sacrifices made to get there don't interest me at all.

I MIGHT consider paying $1700 for something that is a half a pound lighter than the lightest fork in the travel class, while at the same time being stiffer and better damped. At least if I had money to throw away I'd definitely entertain the thought under those circumstances. I'm not going to spend a bunch of money on something that's inferior out of the gate (but looks like a million dollars).

[mullen119]

I have a 160mm pike on my 29er, lighter, with bigger stanchions and a forged crown (that welded crown freaks me out, such a critical part of the fork).

This fork is answering a question that no one is asking. Even the fox 34 is lighter. It's the same reason people bought the Shiver SC and Dorado SC though, because they were unique. It seems like this fork has some decent engineering to keep it from being too much of a noodle, but the sacrifices made to get there don't interest me at all.

I MIGHT consider paying $1700 for something that is a half a pound lighter than the lightest fork in the travel class, while at the same time being stiffer and better damped. At least if I had money to throw away I'd definitely entertain the thought under those circumstances. I'm not going to spend a bunch of money on something that's inferior out of the gate (but looks like a million dollars).

I guess it all works out then, With only 200 being made, I doubt you would be able to get one even if you wanted it.

You're also comparing the wrong type of forks to it. Its designed to compete with the Lyrik/ Fox 36 line.

[Jayem]

I guess it all works out then, With only 200 being made, I doubt you would be able to get one even if you wanted it.

You're also comparing the wrong type of forks to it. Its designed to compete with the Lyrik/ Fox 36 line.

Really? You realize there are Fox 34s available with 150mm of travel, even in 29er models, Pike up to 160mm of travel across all wheel sizes, manitou just announced their take on the genre too-also 160mm and about 4lbs if I recall, I'm thinking this fork is about 5 years too late, but that's kind of the progression that you'd expect, because a right-side up fork has always been a much more efficient platform, especially when comparing non-double-crown forks. I'm thinking the Fox 36 and lyric sales are taking a nose-dive as we speak, given how many pikes have flooded the market. Those things are being stocked on all sorts of bikes and selling aftermarket like nose-candy. I wouldn't be surprised if it's their biggest relative seller ever(discounting the extremely low end OEM stuff).

[Mountain Cycle Shawn]

It will all bepend on its performances. And don't forget, the important part of the fork, in this case, the lower legs, are going to be lighter then any other fork.

[Jayem]

It will all bepend on its performances. And don't forget, the important part of the fork, in this case, the lower legs, are going to be lighter then any other fork.

You mean the fallacy of less unsprung weight? You realize cast lowers are extremely light, the old aluminum 35mm 170-180mm 66 chassi lowers were .75lbs, so compared to a newer asysmetric casting out of aluminum or magnesium, they are probably a little heavier than a modern casting for a similar travel fork.

But of course on an inverted fork there's the stanchions, the lower part of the damping mechanism/damping rod connected to the piston, any oil in there, the dropouts, and the axle, which are not weightless. But it doesn't stop there, then you got the brake caliper and adapter, rotor, hub, spokes, nipples, rim, rim strip, tire, sealant or tube, and so on. When you add all that up, the maybe 50g you are saving by having an upside down fork is lost in the huge amount of unsprung weight on there. If you can tell a 2% reduction in unsprung weight, then that's pretty awesome. There is no significant disparity in unsprung weight, in fact, it likely ends up almost exactly the same.

I'd like to believe that things will depend on the performance (which includes chassi performance), but weight and performance together are what drive the markets in mountain biking. No one bought the avalanche forks because no one wanted a 10lb fork. Craig said he had to make them that stout to resist twisting and everything else that the design was susceptible to because he didn't have the resources for cast lowers, but of course weight won out against performance, and then eventually we were able to have both. I am blowing it a little out of proportion by discussing the fact that it's half a pound heavier at it's claimed weight than the competition, but I don't think you're going to hear or see anything more along these lines for a while. You can make something just as good but lighter that costs less.

[skidad]

Bike Rumor posted about the pic. They wrote that X fusion is hoping for a 2015 release date. Thats to far away!

Yeah, X-Fusion says 2015 which means more like 2017 if it's anything like how long it's taking to get the Sweep to market, now with a supposed ETA of Dec. 2013. Lost count how many times it's been pushed back. Maybe to much time spent on this project?

[mullen119]

Really? You realize there are Fox 34s available with 150mm of travel, even in 29er models, Pike up to 160mm of travel across all wheel sizes, manitou just announced their take on the genre too-also 160mm and about 4lbs if I recall, I'm thinking this fork is about 5 years too late, but that's kind of the progression that you'd expect, because a right-side up fork has always been a much more efficient platform, especially when comparing non-double-crown forks. I'm thinking the Fox 36 and lyric sales are taking a nose-dive as we speak, given how many pikes have flooded the market. Those things are being stocked on all sorts of bikes and selling aftermarket like nose-candy. I wouldn't be surprised if it's their biggest relative seller ever(discounting the extremely low end OEM stuff).

Im not saying the Pike or fox 34 are bad forks. Im saying they have RT3 and CTD dampers which are clearly designed for trail/AM use. Lyrik, Fox 36, and the Revel have true high and low speed compression adjustments and are made for for the heavy AM and into the FR side of riding.

Manitous Mattoc is somewhere in between. Top of the line Pro model is 4.2 lbs with the Expert coming in at 4.4 and the Comp at 4.9lbs.




As for your avalanche making a 10lbs DH fork comment, a 10lbs fork is ridiculous when there are 6-7 lbs options elsewhere. Thats nowhere in the ballpark of comparing a 4.5 lb fork to 4.1lb forks.

[Jayem]

Im not saying the Pike or fox 34 are bad forks. Im saying they have RT3 and CTD dampers which are clearly designed for trail/AM use. Lyrik, Fox 36, and the Revel have true high and low speed compression adjustments and are made for for the heavy AM and into the FR side of riding.

RCT3 or CTD is not the damper, just an explanation of some of the adjustments. Both have high-speed shims and can be adjusted, just more of a pain to do so. The RCT3 is up there with recent technology, in terms of a closed cart not susceptible to cavitation with true high and low-speed circuits. As I understand it, the CTD comes in FIT and open bath flavors? Even "high speed" adjustments are often not really that, as it doesn't rearrange the shims when you turn a dial. Usually it just preloads the shims more, which isn't really the same thing (hence, custom tunes).

Manitous Mattoc is somewhere in between. Top of the line Pro model is 4.2 lbs with the Expert coming in at 4.4 and the Comp at 4.9lbs.

As for your avalanche making a 10lbs DH fork comment, a 10lbs fork is ridiculous when there are 6-7 lbs options elsewhere. Thats nowhere in the ballpark of comparing a 4.5 lb fork to 4.1lb forks.

No, this was years ago when avalanche was 10lbs, a Dorado Pro with int. stem was 8.04, shivers were 8.7, etc.

[mullen119]

RCT3 or CTD is not the damper, just an explanation of some of the adjustments. Both have high-speed shims and can be adjusted, just more of a pain to do so. The RCT3 is up there with recent technology, in terms of a closed cart not susceptible to cavitation with true high and low-speed circuits. As I understand it, the CTD comes in FIT and open bath flavors? Even "high speed" adjustments are often not really that, as it doesn't rearrange the shims when you turn a dial. Usually it just preloads the shims more, which isn't really the same thing (hence, custom tunes).

No, this was years ago when avalanche was 10lbs, a Dorado Pro with int. stem was 8.04, shivers were 8.7, etc.

All suspension has some form of high and low speed compression if it has a compression damper.even the lowly TK damper from Rock Shox has a crude hsc blow off. Giving riders only a couple of options on LSC or HSC adjustments is no ideal for heavy am light fr uses. Hence the mission control, rc2, and hlr dampers that give you these options. Having to chose from preset climb, trail. Or descend modes is not ideal for aggressive riding when pointed down

Using a spring to preload a shim stack usually results into the equivalent of adding one or two base shims when fully preloaded. So you are essentially changing the stack. Not to the point of custom tuning, but that's no what we are talking about.

[wreckedrex]

Definitively I will wait for that one.

I think it's a marketing stunt to pump up brand recognition as mentioned... and if it works, then they will trickle it down.

It's a little disturbing that people pay these prices, though... it just gives ground to up the prices all along. If a 1700usd fork sells, a 1400 version will look like a bargain. But it is just the nature of the beast, so please dismiss my rant.

I demo'd an $11,000 bike (SC Bronson) at the fat tire festival in Fruita this year... Apparently there's at least a few folks willing to part with mind blowing $$ for cool bike stuff.

[literally]

Video: Inside X-Fusion's Inverted Revel Fork - Pinkbike