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  1. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    You can't say they have all failed since a couple companies still make USD mtb forks. You can't say weight for motorcycles doesn't matter either. People spend hundreds of dollars on TI bolts for motocross bikes just to save a pound. The flex issue is real though, and its caused by the stanchions being able to twist inside the uppers. If x fusion had found a way to solve this, and they sound confident that they did, it could be a great step forward. Anyone who has ridden on a USD fork loves the feel they give, other then the twisting of course.
    I said every single crown USD fork has failed, and they have. All the successful ones are dual crown, because the second crown is critical to making it stiff enough. A motorcycle, and motorcycle rider, is much more tolerant of an extra couple pounds on a fork considering the added performance, while on a bicycle an extra 100g is unacceptable.

  2. #27
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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    I said every single crown USD fork has failed, and they have. All the successful ones are dual crown, because the second crown is critical to making it stiff enough. A motorcycle, and motorcycle rider, is much more tolerant of an extra couple pounds on a fork considering the added performance, while on a bicycle an extra 100g is unacceptable.
    My bad, I read it on my phone and some how missed "single crown"

    I still disagree on the weight issue though. 4.3lbs is very light. Lyriks and a regular vengeance is close to 5lbs. Even if it was 100g more, I dont think that would be unacceptable if it performed well.

  3. #28
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    I'm only guessing, but would it be possible that X-Fusion will put something similar needle bearing that Leftys have? Probably it's enough to put this kind of tech to the air/brake side and it will solve all issues that may come from the single crown and "only" 20mm thru-axle design.
    I'm looking forward for more info about the tech of this USD fork.
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  4. #29
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    Keying the stanchions still doesn't prevent independent leg compression.

  5. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Keying the stanchions still doesn't prevent independent leg compression.
    No, but I would venture to say it would help with independent leg rotation. Maybe we ought to bring back the 24mm front axle to help mitigate independent leg compression.

    I wonder what my DUC32 would handle like if the stanchions were 36mm and keyed.

  6. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by beanbag View Post
    Keying the stanchions still doesn't prevent independent leg compression.
    But on a bike where both stanchions are connected by the thru axle and receiving forces from the same point is there any independent compression to prevent at all?

    I don't ever recall seeing it on motos, or even Dorados and Shivers. Twisting and fore-aft bending always seem to be the bug bears on mtb forks, especially the latter.

  7. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fix the Spade View Post
    But on a bike where both stanchions are connected by the thru axle and receiving forces from the same point is there any independent compression to prevent at all?

    I don't ever recall seeing it on motos, or even Dorados and Shivers. Twisting and fore-aft bending always seem to be the bug bears on mtb forks, especially the latter.
    Particularly since the spring and damper are in different legs, yes. But it's not a problem. a well designed 20mm axle is plenty burly enough to handle it. As has been noted, twisting is the biggest issue with an inverted fork, especially a single crown. The keyed stanchion thing should help there.

  8. #33
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    I dont think independent leg compression is much of an issue. Its more about the stanchions spinning in the uppers that is the problem. Keying them would make a huge difference, but would make sealing them a problem.

    I will be very interested to read about the tech that they are using to help solve the problem. The Vengeance is one of the stiffest 160mm forks out right now. If the people at X fusion say its comparable, I am going to give them the benefit of the doubt. A Lyrik is pretty flexy in comparison to a Vengeance, so even if this new fork is similar in stiffness to a Lyrik, it would be plenty stiff for most people.

  9. #34
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    I don't think stanchion spinning is much of an issue. First, you have the thru axle to prevent that, and it is much stiffer than the torsion traveling down a long length of tube. Second, this stanchion spinning is accompanied by one fork leg moving forwards and one backwards. (The twist that happens when you turn the handlebars but the wheel doesn't turn.) So there is another mechanism to prevent this motion anyway. Third, for stanchion keying to prevent this motion, it will basically have to have zero play and no excessive drag. With all that said, my guess that they will be keyed anyway just so the fork doesn't go loopy when you take off the wheel. But I doubt it has any other structural purpose.

    As for independent leg compression, the only thing prevent that on this fork is the clamping mechanism of the thru axle, bolted or press fit or glued to the end of a thin-wall stanchion. It will be easy to test just by grabbing the rim and fork leg together in one hand and squeezing.

  10. #35
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    Lets be honest here, Its not like its a measurable amount of twisting that happens. The honest reality of the situation is that its a combination of a small amount of stanchion spinning and a small amount of individual leg compression that gives USD forks there inherent twisting issue. Having a through axle is obviously helping the situation, but it doesn't solve the stanchion twisting issue completely. When enough force is applied, its still going to give way and give that little bit of flex that USD fork are known for. Axles are also only as stiff as the mounting system used allows. In the motocross industry, they use bigger axles among other things to solve the flexing issue. Manitou uses to shape of the axle to make the stiffest(so far) USD fork available.


    The article speculates that only the top part of the stanchion is keyed, which would solve the seal issue. It also talks about how the stanchion being keyed(which would be the first of its kind) would solve most of the flexing issues. As of now its all just speculation though. Lets hope they produce it so we can learn more about what they did.

  11. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Manitou uses to shape of the axle to make the stiffest(so far) USD fork available.
    Not only that, their axle is pretty thick (and relatively heavy). More thickness to resist twisting.
    Check my Site

  12. #37
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    upside down forks are great till the seals start to leak and all the fluid runs out! when they need to be rebuilt there is not much choice!
    ďAn adventure is misery and discomfort, relived in the safety of reminiscence.Ē Marco Polo

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by t0pcat View Post
    upside down forks are great till the seals start to leak and all the fluid runs out! when they need to be rebuilt there is not much choice!
    True. But most dampers are cartridge based now, so you don't have to worry about loosing damping oil. And if a fork is leaking, it should be rebuilt regardless of orientation.

  14. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jon Richard View Post
    Isn't Paul Turner of Maverick Bikes now in league with X-Fusion? I love my DUC32 forks for trail duty.
    And Maverick's all had proprietary hubs as well...

    "Its long been said that to make a bicycle USD fork stiff enough(twisting wise), for larger riders and extremely aggressive riders, a larger diameter axle would be required... At this point, nobody wants to make a 25mm axled fork that comes with a hub. They dont feel the market is big enough to have the inconvenience." -Mullen119
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  15. #40
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    As long as they stay with a hub that a hope pro can convert to, it's all good

    I would like to know if this fork fits a 4" fat tire....they were being tight lipped & won't tell me on e-mail....wish someone had a measuring tape lol. I know it's only a prototype right now, but dammit tell me how wide it is!
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  16. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by mattsavage View Post
    And Maverick's all had proprietary hubs as well...

    "Its long been said that to make a bicycle USD fork stiff enough(twisting wise), for larger riders and extremely aggressive riders, a larger diameter axle would be required... At this point, nobody wants to make a 25mm axled fork that comes with a hub. They dont feel the market is big enough to have the inconvenience." -Mullen119
    Well, even with the 24mm axle on my DUC there is a good amount of twist, but as stated above the mounting system plays a key roll.

    I think it will take more than a large axle alone to deal with independent stanchion rotation and telescopic movement to mitigate twisting. Thatís what makes this new effort intriguing.

    If keyed stanchions combined with a 20mm thru axle get the job done it would be great, otherwise the day may come when a new front axle standard hits the scene if stiff, long travel USD forks are to become a reality.

  17. #42
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    https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?f...5018965&type=1

    "What are you riding this winter? #progression #xfusion #USD #shredsled #prototype #firstlook #ridemore"

  18. #43
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    Wow, maybe it's really going to happen!
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  19. #44
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    Look good. I'd be interested to see some videos too.
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  20. #45
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    Was just coming here to post that Ibis picture.

  21. #46
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    Please make it to production. It looks so sweet.

  22. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Please make it to production. It looks so sweet.
    Yeah!

    The icing on the cake is the top of the line damper. It uses the HLR.
    Check my Site

  23. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Warp View Post
    Yeah!

    The icing on the cake is the top of the line damper. It uses the HLR.
    Even with the RL damper I'd have one, pre-set compression is something X-Fusion have nailed that others seem to struggle with tremendously (Hello Fox CTD).

    Anyway, that picture's made me go all weak at the knees...
    Last edited by Fix the Spade; 12-16-2012 at 09:33 AM.

  24. #49
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    HLR and it's black, want, now

  25. #50
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    Is it me, or do the legs look a little on the thin side?
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