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  1. #1
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    I bought a 2012 Talas 36/160 some time ago and have never really liked the fork. Felt unresponsive and really sticky. Roll the clock forward and a week ago I installed the new 2014 cartridge in my fork. First thing I noticed was how different the two cartridges look...

    https://picasaweb.google.com/1001880...90/TalasFork02

    ...old cart is on the left and the new is on the right.

    Verdict?

    The new 2014 cart feels amazing! Seriously if you've got an old Talas fork YOU NEED THE NEW CART. It is incredible and completey transforms the fork.

    The only problem though, and it's a big one, is that my fork has gone from 160/120mm travel to around 140/100mm travel. What the? I have no idea why this would happen and would appreciate any help.

    Anyone know if there's something I need to do to the cart to set it up right? It installed pretty easily and seemed straight forward. The only thing I did that could affect it was to add 40ml of 10wt oil as per instructions.

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    Sorry, I can't answer your questions regarding the correct setup of the new cartridge, but I wanted to inquire where you bought the cartridge alone, as it seems like an interesting upgrade?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mordor View Post
    Sorry, I can't answer your questions regarding the correct setup of the new cartridge, but I wanted to inquire where you bought the cartridge alone, as it seems like an interesting upgrade?
    Just got it from my friendly Fox dealer. In AUS it's TBSM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    The only problem though, and it's a big one, is that my fork has gone from 160/120mm travel to around 140/100mm travel. What the? I have no idea why this would happen and would appreciate any help.

    Anyone know if there's something I need to do to the cart to set it up right? It installed pretty easily and seemed straight forward. The only thing I did that could affect it was to add 40ml of 10wt oil as per instructions.
    Sounds like you need to change the shuttle bumper in the bottom of the talas cartridge.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    Sounds like you need to change the shuttle bumper in the bottom of the talas cartridge.
    Sounds good. Any more detail on this one?

  6. #6
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    Here is a cutaway of the new cartridge. You can see where the shuttle bumpers and spacers are. I don't have any further information though.
    FOX Hits Back For 2014 - Pinkbike

  7. #7
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    how much was your new cartridge?

  8. #8
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    I just asked my LBS to do the very same thing for the same shock. Hoping it's not too expensive.

  9. #9
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    Here is a cutaway of the new cartridge. You can see where the shuttle bumpers and spacers are. I don't have any further information though.
    FOX Hits Back For 2014 - Pinkbike
    Yeah I saw that but still not sure where the stops are on mine. Maybe I need to install some?

  10. #10
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    how much was your new cartridge?
    $150ish AUD

  11. #11
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    I just asked my LBS to do the very same thing for the same shock. Hoping it's not too expensive.
    Cool let me know how you go?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Yeah I saw that but still not sure where the stops are on mine. Maybe I need to install some?
    If you remove the top cap you should be able to see if there are spacers there.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    If you remove the top cap you should be able to see if there are spacers there.
    There is a lower one as well at the bottom of the cartridge. You can see it in blue in that picture. IIRC the top ones adjust the amount of drop you get when adjusting the talas.

  14. #14
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    I don't see a blue spacer on the cartridge on the right.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    I don't see a blue spacer on the cartridge on the right.
    You probably are not looking at the right picture then as it's clearly at the bottom of the talas cartridge.

  16. #16
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement-image_5.jpg

    I see a blue piece on the cartridge on the left, but nothing on the cartridge on the right, which is the 2014 damper with the reduced travel issue.

  17. #17
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    he is reffering to the image in the link he posted

  18. #18
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Guys, got it sorted! There was a black plastic insert at the bottom of the cart stanchion. It goes with the old 2012 cart and came out easily after removing a circlip. The new cart was getting restricted by it so I only had 140/100mm.

    The fork now has the full 160/120mm and feels amazing. Seriously it feels like as smooth as a float! Fox have finally sorted the Talas and if you have an older fork you need to get hold of this cartridge! Now to get out and hit some trails.,.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Guys, got it sorted! There was a black plastic insert at the bottom of the cart stanchion. It goes with the old 2012 cart and came out easily after removing a circlip. The new cart was getting restricted by it so I only had 140/100mm.

    The fork now has the full 160/120mm and feels amazing. Seriously it feels like as smooth as a float! Fox have finally sorted the Talas and if you have an older fork you need to get hold of this cartridge! Now to get out and hit some trails.,.
    Glad you got it sorted. What did it take to get it out? IS it a bottom out bumper? My new cart should be here tomorrow.

    BTW, how much oil does the new cartridge require in the stanchion?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    Glad you got it sorted. What did it take to get it out? IS it a bottom out bumper? My new cart should be here tomorrow.

    BTW, how much oil does the new cartridge require in the stanchion?
    Once the lowers were off it was easy. As I said just remove a circlip holding in the plastic insert (could be a bottom out bumper but not really sure) and it comes out easily.

    Forks take 40ml of 10wt fork oil in both sides.

  21. #21
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    Holysmokes what an improvement. This, sticky from day one fork, is like butter now. I'm running a reasonable amount of air without brake dive. The LSC damping on the RLC damper is now usable. Really nice air spring. I went with 30ml on the damper side and 15ml on the air spring per the Fox chart.

    Thanks for the heads up on the bumper in the stanchion. I would have totally missed that.

  22. #22
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Yeah I'm now wondering if I should change the rebound side as well. My 2012 Talas only has low speed compression and the new fork has low and high. Hmmm

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    I've heard good things about the R2C damper, but it's $300.

  24. #24
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    Hi guys, hope I can get some help in this thread since no one is reading this one.

    Just like AlsTrance, I ride a Fox 36 TALAS R 2012. Unlike his, mine is buttery smooth but with another problem.

    Let me explain a bit. It is very slick in its action (no sticky movements) but it has this weird initial travel, where you need a lot of force to let's say to compress it to some SAG levels. Totally opposite than let's say an RS fork which is very easy to push in the first few centimeters of travel. Everything else is great, I'm getting full travel, it rides pretty high in travel all the time, but this first 2-3cm need a lot of force. A lot more than let's say Floats 36 or new Pikes. Like it's a regressive curve (and not a progressive one) in the beginning travel..

    It gives me "headaches" cause I feel that my front wheel deflects a lot more from small size rocks on the trail that aren't fixed to the ground (especially now that it's almost winter and the leaves are all over the ground covering these rocks). More than it should in my opinion.

    Anyone with similar experience ? Can any of 2014 TALAS owners comment how they made the new TALAS spring ?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuco View Post
    Hi guys, hope I can get some help in this thread since no one is reading this one.

    Just like AlsTrance, I ride a Fox 36 TALAS R 2012. Unlike his, mine is buttery smooth but with another problem.

    Let me explain a bit. It is very slick in its action (no sticky movements) but it has this weird initial travel, where you need a lot of force to let's say to compress it to some SAG levels. Totally opposite than let's say an RS fork which is very easy to push in the first few centimeters of travel. Everything else is great, I'm getting full travel, it rides pretty high in travel all the time, but this first 2-3cm need a lot of force. A lot more than let's say Floats 36 or new Pikes. Like it's a regressive curve (and not a progressive one) in the beginning travel..

    It gives me "headaches" cause I feel that my front wheel deflects a lot more from small size rocks on the trail that aren't fixed to the ground (especially now that it's almost winter and the leaves are all over the ground covering these rocks). More than it should in my opinion.

    Anyone with similar experience ? Can any of 2014 TALAS owners comment how they made the new TALAS spring ?
    Yep sounds a lot like my old fork. What I had to do to get it to free up was to drop low-speed compression to 0 and use air pressure to account for the high end. Also might want to look at oil. If you have too much this could be an issue or, if you don't turn your bike upside down frequently enough the seals lose oil and get sticky.

    Tbh you'd be better off spending $150-$160 and buying the new cartridge.

  26. #26
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    Hi am thinking about upgradeing my 2013 160 talas travel adjust cartridge , is the part number

    820-01-361? If it is I was quoted 250GBP by the UK Fox agent, I thought Fox said it would a relatively inexpensive upgrade

  27. #27
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Yes that's the right code. Sounds pretty exxie to me. Ask if they can do a warranty job based on the argument that the fork wasn't right in the first place.

  28. #28
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    Just phoned back again spoke to some one different and its still 250may have to look about importing
    From Europe or North America

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Soul View Post
    Hi am thinking about upgradeing my 2013 160 talas travel adjust cartridge , is the part number

    820-01-361? If it is I was quoted 250GBP by the UK Fox agent, I thought Fox said it would a relatively inexpensive upgrade
    I think fox said the damper (2013 CTD FIT to 2014 CTD FIT) would be a inexpensive upgrade?

  30. #30
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    @Rick Draper,OK maybe I misunderstood I thought it was the travel adjust from air to hydraulic

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Guys, got it sorted! There was a black plastic insert at the bottom of the cart stanchion. It goes with the old 2012 cart and came out easily after removing a circlip. The new cart was getting restricted by it so I only had 140/100mm.
    .
    Just got the 2014 Talas Cartridge for my 34 inch fork, and plan to fit it over the weekend. Did you just remove the circlip, the black plastic insert (guess that was a top-out bumper) and anything else behind or did you put anything of it back (circlip or anything else you might have found)?

  32. #32
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Yes all I had to do was remove the black bump stop and circlip holding it. The new 2014 cart fits nicely into the empty stanchion.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Yes all I had to do was remove the black bump stop and circlip holding it. The new 2014 cart fits nicely into the empty stanchion.
    Great, thanks, fitting the new cartridge should be pretty straightforward then.

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    Mission completed, the new Talas 5 cartridge fitted and ridden - what a difference, much better small bump compliance! And the altered spring curve of the new cartridge suits me much better as it seem to be more progressive. I also upgraded the CTD a few weeks back, providing increased damping in all modes - highly recommended, now I can actually use the "descend" mode.

    @AlsTrance: I saw you added 40 ml of 10 wt oil in both legs "as per instructions" - I have spent some time looking for the oil volume spec's for 2014 forks without success - any chance you could guide me in the right direction?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogesund_rider View Post
    Mission completed, the new Talas 5 cartridge fitted and ridden - what a difference, much better small bump compliance! And the altered spring curve of the new cartridge suits me much better as it seem to be more progressive. I also upgraded the CTD a few weeks back, providing increased damping in all modes - highly recommended, now I can actually use the "descend" mode.

    @AlsTrance: I saw you added 40 ml of 10 wt oil in both legs "as per instructions" - I have spent some time looking for the oil volume spec's for 2014 forks without success - any chance you could guide me in the right direction?
    This is what my local Fox expert told me when he sold me the cart. I'm checking with him now to find out where this figure came from. I'll get back to you soon.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Yep sounds a lot like my old fork. What I had to do to get it to free up was to drop low-speed compression to 0 and use air pressure to account for the high end. Also might want to look at oil. If you have too much this could be an issue or, if you don't turn your bike upside down frequently enough the seals lose oil and get sticky.
    Tbh you'd be better off spending $150-$160 and buying the new cartridge.
    Thanks for the answer.

    Since the fork hasn't been serviced yet, can't tell if the oil levels are ok (I need to get it serviced at FOX reseller so I get 2 years of warranty in EU). It's not due to sticky dust wipers or something, cause as I said - it isn't sticky in its movement and it doesn't need a lot of breakaway force. It's nice and slides very well. I'd go that far and say it's great in that area. It just needs a lot more force to let's say hold it with your hands (by pushing the bars) to get 25% SAG.

    Since mine is TALAS R, I can't mess with compression (but that wouldn't do any changes since the problem it the spring chamber). Nevertheless, I need to try any 2014 TALAS at my Fox dealer

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    This is what my local Fox expert told me when he sold me the cart. I'm checking with him now to find out where this figure came from. I'll get back to you soon.
    Thanks a lot! I have actually mailed Fox about it as well, I'll post any responses I get here.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogesund_rider View Post
    Mission completed, the new Talas 5 cartridge fitted and ridden - what a difference, much better small bump compliance! And the altered spring curve of the new cartridge suits me much better as it seem to be more progressive. I also upgraded the CTD a few weeks back, providing increased damping in all modes - highly recommended, now I can actually use the "descend" mode.

    @AlsTrance: I saw you added 40 ml of 10 wt oil in both legs "as per instructions" - I have spent some time looking for the oil volume spec's for 2014 forks without success - any chance you could guide me in the right direction?
    Just got this photo from local Fox guy...Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement-fox-talas.jpg

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Just got this photo from local Fox guy...
    Very good, thanks a lot! Fox themselves didn't really come back with a response... I fired off three or four questions at the same time, one of them got partly answered, the others not (the oil volume question among them).

  40. #40
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    Are any special tool needed to swap the cartridge? (Ifp tool).
    Or just deflate the old one and install the new talas 5. I just ordered mine. Can't wait

  41. #41
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    Large spanner for top nut and a pair of pliers or sharp knife to remove the lower circlip holding in the bump stop at the bottom.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picowatt View Post
    Are any special tool needed to swap the cartridge? (Ifp tool).
    Or just deflate the old one and install the new talas 5. I just ordered mine. Can't wait
    No special tools needed, just ordinary tools - however, if you will use a socket wrench I would recommend that you grind down the socket, or like Fox themselves expresses it:

    You may need to grind down the socket to reduce lead-in chamfer, which will improve the engagement with the topcap wrench flats

  43. #43
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    Where is the circlip and black insert located before I take it all apart? Is it in the stanchion tube or part of the slider assbly?
    Do I need to remove slider from tubes to get it?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picowatt View Post
    Where is the circlip and black insert located before I take it all apart? Is it in the stanchion tube or part of the slider assbly?
    Do I need to remove slider from tubes to get it?
    The circlip and the black insert/top-out bumper are located at the bottom of the stanchion tube. Once you have removed the lower legs, you will see the lower air assembly protrude through the bottom of the stanchion tube and, if I remember correctly, you then see the circlip (the black insert/top-out bumper resides behind the circlip). You may want to push the lower air assembly into the stanchion to avoid scratching it, should you slip with the tool used to remove the circlip - knife, pliers or what you chose. In such case you may also use something rather long, and "non-scratching" to push out the lower air assembly.

    Hope this helps.

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    Yes. It does help. For reference, does anyone have a pic or proper exploded view of the fox 36 that shows this part?

    I'm sure I will figure it out once I take it apart.
    Also. What pressures has everyone been running on the new talas cartridge?

  46. #46
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    I think the attached PDF file is accurate enough, even though I think its related to 2009 year's model. To the right you see the parts discussed, referred to as "Retaining ring: Internal Smalley" (= Circlip), "Sealhead" (=Black insert) and "Bumper: Topout".

    I run 110 psi, and I'm around 88 kg (195 lbs) with all my riding gear. However, I have a 34/160 mm fork, not a 36/160, on my Pivot Mach 5.7 Carbon frame - so this info might be of limited value to you.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  47. #47
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    I ran into a snag during the install of the 2014 TALAS cartridge into my 2012 TALAS 180 36 fork. Fox said it would fit... Looks like the one on the right:

    The problem is that the top part will not thread in all the way. It threads in smoothly for the first 1/4", and then stops like it has bottomed out. There are still threads exposed, which is not cool. I do NOT want to force it. Ideas? And yes, "Fox sold you the wrong part" is what I'm thinking.
    @pinkrobeyyc
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  48. #48
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    Did you check the bump stop was removed as per my earlier post...

    "Guys, got it sorted! There was a black plastic insert at the bottom of the cart stanchion. It goes with the old 2012 cart and came out easily after removing a circlip. The new cart was getting restricted by it so I only had 140/100mm.

    The fork now has the full 160/120mm and feels amazing. Seriously it feels like as smooth as a float! Fox have finally sorted the Talas and if you have an older fork you need to get hold of this cartridge! Now to get out and hit some trails."

    Not sure if this is your problem but worth checking.

  49. #49
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    I don't believe this is a bump stop issue. The fork was compressed when I was doing the install, and the bottom sat free in the lower. The interference seems to be at the top where it threads in.
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    Maybe I'm stating the obvious, please have patience with me in that case:
    - Have you checked the threads on the new top cap, just to ensure it is not damaged?
    - Have you measured the length of the "non-moving" part of the new TALAS unit, to ensure it matches the length of the inner stanchion (full length, lower legs disassembled). If there is now "bump stop" this shouldn't make much of a difference, but could indicate Fox sent you the wrong part.

    And just to rule out the "bump stop" option: Is there any chance you could post a pic or two, showing the lower end of the inner stanchion without the TALAS unit assembled? I would just like to see through the empty inner stanchion to ensure we understand each other.

  51. #51
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    The threads on the top cap were good - it's a brand new unit, totally clean. I greased the threads lightly before installing, and the first couple of turns went in smoothly. It's worth noting that the o-ring below the threaded portion was a snug fit, but did not require undue force to push into the top of the stanchion.
    I didn't pull the bottoms off the fork to do the install.* I fully compressed the fork, and it was only at that point that I could get the threaded portion to feed through the hole on the bottom of the fork leg so I could attach the foot nut.

    Oh ****.
    [goes and measures fully extended fork, compares to fully extended TALAS V cartridge]

    DEFINITELY the wrong part. The difference in length between the fork and the cartridge is 95mm. Totally missed that in my excitement to install the new unit. Once again, I am a cautionary tale. Sigh.

    AlsTrance and Bogesund_rider, thanks for helping me work through this.

    *The original [TALAS IV] cartridge can be extracted out the top of the fork by removing the air cap, travel change lever [remove two 1/16" hex-head screws], and then simply unscrewing the unit with a 32mm socket or wrench. The upper part of the cartridge comes out easily, and the lower part can be pushed out from below via the hole on the underside of the fork leg.
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    Not so fast...

    You wrote you didn't pull the bottoms off to install the new TALAS unit. That leads me to think you have not been able to remove the top-out bumper and seal head that sits in the bottom end of the inner leg. In the pic you posted these are the blue and black parts on the old lower half of the unit. I think it might be a good idea to read through this thread again thoroghly, as this is something especially me and AlsTrance has been discussing. My guess is that if you just pull off the lowers, remove the retainer ring ring at the bottom og the inner stanchion and takes out out the sealhead and top out bumper you might find the new Talas unit will actually fit.

    As regards the length: I'm not sure I managed to clearly enough explain what parts I thought you should compare, so maybe you should just disregard that comment of mine, at least for now.

  53. #53
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    I am 100% sure that the blue and black parts came out with the old cartridge, but I'll pull it all apart again to see if I missed something else. I need to change the dust wipers anyway...
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  54. #54
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    Here is what I'm seeing:
    New TALAS cart screwed in as far as it will go [everything else has been removed from the stanchion]


    Side-by-side comparisons

    @pinkrobeyyc
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    OK, it might be different on different forks.

    I had to remove the sealhead and I think also the top-out bumper from below - in fact, I found it easier to remove also the lower air assembly as such from below (BTW, did you manage to get that out without removing the lowers?). Regardless of which, I concluded I also needed to remove the retainer ring / circlip at the inside of the bottom of the inner stanchion not to restrict the position of the new Talas unit - maybe that's the culprit?

  56. #56
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    I was able to contact SuspensionWerx in Vancouver, and they were able to provide me with the correct part number: FX-820-01-340-KIT (TALAS-5 Assembly for 26" Fox TALAS 36 180 R and RC2). I emailed them those photos, and they say I have the 160 cartridge, not the 180. Back to the LBS it goes!

    I had to pull the lowers to remove the black rubber thingy held in by the circlip. I tried the cart with and without it, and it didn't affect the install at all. Thanks for your help!
    @pinkrobeyyc
    #pinkrobeyyc

  57. #57
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    OK, sounds like you're on the right track then. Too bad you didn't get the right stuff in the first place. I hope you get the correct unit soon - and hopefully you will still benefit from having removed the circlip and the black sealhead when you install that.

    Good luck!

  58. #58
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    Just wanted to close the loop on my TALAS tale.

    Andrew from SuspensionWerx [huge props!] diagnosed the problem, ordered up the correct part and shipped it to me in one week. It took all of 5 minutes to install the cartridge this morning - it threaded in most of the way by hand and snugged up in perfect position. The rest of the fork went back together easy-peasy. Tested the travel and the adjustment - perfect.

    For those that care, here is the difference between the OEM cart from 2012 [TALAS 4 on the right] and the new version [TALAS 5 on the left]:
    @pinkrobeyyc
    #pinkrobeyyc

  59. #59
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    Good to hear it all went well! Now get out and enjoy your upgraded ride, it is quite a difference!

  60. #60
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    Hi All,

    I found this link on Fox's website which may be useful to anyone wanting to perform this install:
    FORK- TALAS 5: Adjusting Total Travel and Modifying Travel Adjustment Range | Bike Help Center | FOX
    It has fluid volumes which should answer some questions I've seen earlier.

    I would like to ask those here who have already performed the install, did you use any Float fluid during the install? The instructions show it being used in the XV sleeve and I'm assuming the Float fluid came installed in the cart from Fox. Otherwise, no Float fluid is being used during the installation in the instructions, unlike previous versions of the TALAS cart where the Float fluid is installed in the stanchion.

    Thanks

  61. #61
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    Nice update)))
    And now I have one question which someone could answer....
    Can I make an update like this to my oldish Fox 36 with Talas revision 1 cartridge? This shouldn't be necessarily changed to Talas 5, I would be happy even with a older one))

  62. #62
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    Follow this like to Fox's website: Bike Suspension Upgrades | FOX

    Enter you fork info and it will tell you what upgrades are available to you. I have a talas 4 cartridge for sale if you want that .

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