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  1. #1
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    I bought a 2012 Talas 36/160 some time ago and have never really liked the fork. Felt unresponsive and really sticky. Roll the clock forward and a week ago I installed the new 2014 cartridge in my fork. First thing I noticed was how different the two cartridges look...

    https://picasaweb.google.com/1001880...90/TalasFork02

    ...old cart is on the left and the new is on the right.

    Verdict?

    The new 2014 cart feels amazing! Seriously if you've got an old Talas fork YOU NEED THE NEW CART. It is incredible and completey transforms the fork.

    The only problem though, and it's a big one, is that my fork has gone from 160/120mm travel to around 140/100mm travel. What the? I have no idea why this would happen and would appreciate any help.

    Anyone know if there's something I need to do to the cart to set it up right? It installed pretty easily and seemed straight forward. The only thing I did that could affect it was to add 40ml of 10wt oil as per instructions.

  2. #2
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    Sorry, I can't answer your questions regarding the correct setup of the new cartridge, but I wanted to inquire where you bought the cartridge alone, as it seems like an interesting upgrade?

  3. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by mordor View Post
    Sorry, I can't answer your questions regarding the correct setup of the new cartridge, but I wanted to inquire where you bought the cartridge alone, as it seems like an interesting upgrade?
    Just got it from my friendly Fox dealer. In AUS it's TBSM.

  4. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    The only problem though, and it's a big one, is that my fork has gone from 160/120mm travel to around 140/100mm travel. What the? I have no idea why this would happen and would appreciate any help.

    Anyone know if there's something I need to do to the cart to set it up right? It installed pretty easily and seemed straight forward. The only thing I did that could affect it was to add 40ml of 10wt oil as per instructions.
    Sounds like you need to change the shuttle bumper in the bottom of the talas cartridge.

  5. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    Sounds like you need to change the shuttle bumper in the bottom of the talas cartridge.
    Sounds good. Any more detail on this one?

  6. #6
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    Here is a cutaway of the new cartridge. You can see where the shuttle bumpers and spacers are. I don't have any further information though.
    FOX Hits Back For 2014 - Pinkbike

  7. #7
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    how much was your new cartridge?

  8. #8
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    I just asked my LBS to do the very same thing for the same shock. Hoping it's not too expensive.

  9. #9
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by Rick Draper View Post
    Here is a cutaway of the new cartridge. You can see where the shuttle bumpers and spacers are. I don't have any further information though.
    FOX Hits Back For 2014 - Pinkbike
    Yeah I saw that but still not sure where the stops are on mine. Maybe I need to install some?

  10. #10
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by brankulo View Post
    how much was your new cartridge?
    $150ish AUD

  11. #11
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    I just asked my LBS to do the very same thing for the same shock. Hoping it's not too expensive.
    Cool let me know how you go?

  12. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Yeah I saw that but still not sure where the stops are on mine. Maybe I need to install some?
    If you remove the top cap you should be able to see if there are spacers there.

  13. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    If you remove the top cap you should be able to see if there are spacers there.
    There is a lower one as well at the bottom of the cartridge. You can see it in blue in that picture. IIRC the top ones adjust the amount of drop you get when adjusting the talas.

  14. #14
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    I don't see a blue spacer on the cartridge on the right.

  15. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    I don't see a blue spacer on the cartridge on the right.
    You probably are not looking at the right picture then as it's clearly at the bottom of the talas cartridge.

  16. #16
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement-image_5.jpg

    I see a blue piece on the cartridge on the left, but nothing on the cartridge on the right, which is the 2014 damper with the reduced travel issue.

  17. #17
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    he is reffering to the image in the link he posted

  18. #18
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Guys, got it sorted! There was a black plastic insert at the bottom of the cart stanchion. It goes with the old 2012 cart and came out easily after removing a circlip. The new cart was getting restricted by it so I only had 140/100mm.

    The fork now has the full 160/120mm and feels amazing. Seriously it feels like as smooth as a float! Fox have finally sorted the Talas and if you have an older fork you need to get hold of this cartridge! Now to get out and hit some trails.,.

  19. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Guys, got it sorted! There was a black plastic insert at the bottom of the cart stanchion. It goes with the old 2012 cart and came out easily after removing a circlip. The new cart was getting restricted by it so I only had 140/100mm.

    The fork now has the full 160/120mm and feels amazing. Seriously it feels like as smooth as a float! Fox have finally sorted the Talas and if you have an older fork you need to get hold of this cartridge! Now to get out and hit some trails.,.
    Glad you got it sorted. What did it take to get it out? IS it a bottom out bumper? My new cart should be here tomorrow.

    BTW, how much oil does the new cartridge require in the stanchion?

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by smellurfingers View Post
    Glad you got it sorted. What did it take to get it out? IS it a bottom out bumper? My new cart should be here tomorrow.

    BTW, how much oil does the new cartridge require in the stanchion?
    Once the lowers were off it was easy. As I said just remove a circlip holding in the plastic insert (could be a bottom out bumper but not really sure) and it comes out easily.

    Forks take 40ml of 10wt fork oil in both sides.

  21. #21
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    Holysmokes what an improvement. This, sticky from day one fork, is like butter now. I'm running a reasonable amount of air without brake dive. The LSC damping on the RLC damper is now usable. Really nice air spring. I went with 30ml on the damper side and 15ml on the air spring per the Fox chart.

    Thanks for the heads up on the bumper in the stanchion. I would have totally missed that.

  22. #22
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Yeah I'm now wondering if I should change the rebound side as well. My 2012 Talas only has low speed compression and the new fork has low and high. Hmmm

  23. #23
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    I've heard good things about the R2C damper, but it's $300.

  24. #24
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    Hi guys, hope I can get some help in this thread since no one is reading this one.

    Just like AlsTrance, I ride a Fox 36 TALAS R 2012. Unlike his, mine is buttery smooth but with another problem.

    Let me explain a bit. It is very slick in its action (no sticky movements) but it has this weird initial travel, where you need a lot of force to let's say to compress it to some SAG levels. Totally opposite than let's say an RS fork which is very easy to push in the first few centimeters of travel. Everything else is great, I'm getting full travel, it rides pretty high in travel all the time, but this first 2-3cm need a lot of force. A lot more than let's say Floats 36 or new Pikes. Like it's a regressive curve (and not a progressive one) in the beginning travel..

    It gives me "headaches" cause I feel that my front wheel deflects a lot more from small size rocks on the trail that aren't fixed to the ground (especially now that it's almost winter and the leaves are all over the ground covering these rocks). More than it should in my opinion.

    Anyone with similar experience ? Can any of 2014 TALAS owners comment how they made the new TALAS spring ?

  25. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Vuco View Post
    Hi guys, hope I can get some help in this thread since no one is reading this one.

    Just like AlsTrance, I ride a Fox 36 TALAS R 2012. Unlike his, mine is buttery smooth but with another problem.

    Let me explain a bit. It is very slick in its action (no sticky movements) but it has this weird initial travel, where you need a lot of force to let's say to compress it to some SAG levels. Totally opposite than let's say an RS fork which is very easy to push in the first few centimeters of travel. Everything else is great, I'm getting full travel, it rides pretty high in travel all the time, but this first 2-3cm need a lot of force. A lot more than let's say Floats 36 or new Pikes. Like it's a regressive curve (and not a progressive one) in the beginning travel..

    It gives me "headaches" cause I feel that my front wheel deflects a lot more from small size rocks on the trail that aren't fixed to the ground (especially now that it's almost winter and the leaves are all over the ground covering these rocks). More than it should in my opinion.

    Anyone with similar experience ? Can any of 2014 TALAS owners comment how they made the new TALAS spring ?
    Yep sounds a lot like my old fork. What I had to do to get it to free up was to drop low-speed compression to 0 and use air pressure to account for the high end. Also might want to look at oil. If you have too much this could be an issue or, if you don't turn your bike upside down frequently enough the seals lose oil and get sticky.

    Tbh you'd be better off spending $150-$160 and buying the new cartridge.

  26. #26
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    Hi am thinking about upgradeing my 2013 160 talas travel adjust cartridge , is the part number

    820-01-361? If it is I was quoted 250GBP by the UK Fox agent, I thought Fox said it would a relatively inexpensive upgrade

  27. #27
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Yes that's the right code. Sounds pretty exxie to me. Ask if they can do a warranty job based on the argument that the fork wasn't right in the first place.

  28. #28
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    Just phoned back again spoke to some one different and its still 250may have to look about importing
    From Europe or North America

  29. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Northern Soul View Post
    Hi am thinking about upgradeing my 2013 160 talas travel adjust cartridge , is the part number

    820-01-361? If it is I was quoted 250GBP by the UK Fox agent, I thought Fox said it would a relatively inexpensive upgrade
    I think fox said the damper (2013 CTD FIT to 2014 CTD FIT) would be a inexpensive upgrade?

  30. #30
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    @Rick Draper,OK maybe I misunderstood I thought it was the travel adjust from air to hydraulic

  31. #31
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Guys, got it sorted! There was a black plastic insert at the bottom of the cart stanchion. It goes with the old 2012 cart and came out easily after removing a circlip. The new cart was getting restricted by it so I only had 140/100mm.
    .
    Just got the 2014 Talas Cartridge for my 34 inch fork, and plan to fit it over the weekend. Did you just remove the circlip, the black plastic insert (guess that was a top-out bumper) and anything else behind or did you put anything of it back (circlip or anything else you might have found)?

  32. #32
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    Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement

    Yes all I had to do was remove the black bump stop and circlip holding it. The new 2014 cart fits nicely into the empty stanchion.

  33. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Yes all I had to do was remove the black bump stop and circlip holding it. The new 2014 cart fits nicely into the empty stanchion.
    Great, thanks, fitting the new cartridge should be pretty straightforward then.

  34. #34
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    Mission completed, the new Talas 5 cartridge fitted and ridden - what a difference, much better small bump compliance! And the altered spring curve of the new cartridge suits me much better as it seem to be more progressive. I also upgraded the CTD a few weeks back, providing increased damping in all modes - highly recommended, now I can actually use the "descend" mode.

    @AlsTrance: I saw you added 40 ml of 10 wt oil in both legs "as per instructions" - I have spent some time looking for the oil volume spec's for 2014 forks without success - any chance you could guide me in the right direction?

  35. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogesund_rider View Post
    Mission completed, the new Talas 5 cartridge fitted and ridden - what a difference, much better small bump compliance! And the altered spring curve of the new cartridge suits me much better as it seem to be more progressive. I also upgraded the CTD a few weeks back, providing increased damping in all modes - highly recommended, now I can actually use the "descend" mode.

    @AlsTrance: I saw you added 40 ml of 10 wt oil in both legs "as per instructions" - I have spent some time looking for the oil volume spec's for 2014 forks without success - any chance you could guide me in the right direction?
    This is what my local Fox expert told me when he sold me the cart. I'm checking with him now to find out where this figure came from. I'll get back to you soon.

  36. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Yep sounds a lot like my old fork. What I had to do to get it to free up was to drop low-speed compression to 0 and use air pressure to account for the high end. Also might want to look at oil. If you have too much this could be an issue or, if you don't turn your bike upside down frequently enough the seals lose oil and get sticky.
    Tbh you'd be better off spending $150-$160 and buying the new cartridge.
    Thanks for the answer.

    Since the fork hasn't been serviced yet, can't tell if the oil levels are ok (I need to get it serviced at FOX reseller so I get 2 years of warranty in EU). It's not due to sticky dust wipers or something, cause as I said - it isn't sticky in its movement and it doesn't need a lot of breakaway force. It's nice and slides very well. I'd go that far and say it's great in that area. It just needs a lot more force to let's say hold it with your hands (by pushing the bars) to get 25% SAG.

    Since mine is TALAS R, I can't mess with compression (but that wouldn't do any changes since the problem it the spring chamber). Nevertheless, I need to try any 2014 TALAS at my Fox dealer

  37. #37
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    This is what my local Fox expert told me when he sold me the cart. I'm checking with him now to find out where this figure came from. I'll get back to you soon.
    Thanks a lot! I have actually mailed Fox about it as well, I'll post any responses I get here.

  38. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bogesund_rider View Post
    Mission completed, the new Talas 5 cartridge fitted and ridden - what a difference, much better small bump compliance! And the altered spring curve of the new cartridge suits me much better as it seem to be more progressive. I also upgraded the CTD a few weeks back, providing increased damping in all modes - highly recommended, now I can actually use the "descend" mode.

    @AlsTrance: I saw you added 40 ml of 10 wt oil in both legs "as per instructions" - I have spent some time looking for the oil volume spec's for 2014 forks without success - any chance you could guide me in the right direction?
    Just got this photo from local Fox guy...Fox Talas 36/160 Cartridge Replacement-fox-talas.jpg

  39. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by AlsTrance View Post
    Just got this photo from local Fox guy...
    Very good, thanks a lot! Fox themselves didn't really come back with a response... I fired off three or four questions at the same time, one of them got partly answered, the others not (the oil volume question among them).

  40. #40
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    Are any special tool needed to swap the cartridge? (Ifp tool).
    Or just deflate the old one and install the new talas 5. I just ordered mine. Can't wait

  41. #41
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    Large spanner for top nut and a pair of pliers or sharp knife to remove the lower circlip holding in the bump stop at the bottom.

  42. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picowatt View Post
    Are any special tool needed to swap the cartridge? (Ifp tool).
    Or just deflate the old one and install the new talas 5. I just ordered mine. Can't wait
    No special tools needed, just ordinary tools - however, if you will use a socket wrench I would recommend that you grind down the socket, or like Fox themselves expresses it:

    You may need to grind down the socket to reduce lead-in chamfer, which will improve the engagement with the topcap wrench flats

  43. #43
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    Where is the circlip and black insert located before I take it all apart? Is it in the stanchion tube or part of the slider assbly?
    Do I need to remove slider from tubes to get it?

  44. #44
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    Quote Originally Posted by Picowatt View Post
    Where is the circlip and black insert located before I take it all apart? Is it in the stanchion tube or part of the slider assbly?
    Do I need to remove slider from tubes to get it?
    The circlip and the black insert/top-out bumper are located at the bottom of the stanchion tube. Once you have removed the lower legs, you will see the lower air assembly protrude through the bottom of the stanchion tube and, if I remember correctly, you then see the circlip (the black insert/top-out bumper resides behind the circlip). You may want to push the lower air assembly into the stanchion to avoid scratching it, should you slip with the tool used to remove the circlip - knife, pliers or what you chose. In such case you may also use something rather long, and "non-scratching" to push out the lower air assembly.

    Hope this helps.

  45. #45
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    Yes. It does help. For reference, does anyone have a pic or proper exploded view of the fox 36 that shows this part?

    I'm sure I will figure it out once I take it apart.
    Also. What pressures has everyone been running on the new talas cartridge?

  46. #46
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    I think the attached PDF file is accurate enough, even though I think its related to 2009 year's model. To the right you see the parts discussed, referred to as "Retaining ring: Internal Smalley" (= Circlip), "Sealhead" (=Black insert) and "Bumper: Topout".

    I run 110 psi, and I'm around 88 kg (195 lbs) with all my riding gear. However, I have a 34/160 mm fork, not a 36/160, on my Pivot Mach 5.7 Carbon frame - so this info might be of limited value to you.
    Attached Files Attached Files

  47. #47
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    I ran into a snag during the install of the 2014 TALAS cartridge into my 2012 TALAS 180 36 fork. Fox said it would fit... Looks like the one on the right:

    The problem is that the top part will not thread in all the way. It threads in smoothly for the first 1/4", and then stops like it has bottomed out. There are still threads exposed, which is not cool. I do NOT want to force it. Ideas? And yes, "Fox sold you the wrong part" is what I'm thinking.
    @pinkrobeyyc
    #pinkrobeyyc

  48. #48
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    Did you check the bump stop was removed as per my earlier post...

    "Guys, got it sorted! There was a black plastic insert at the bottom of the cart stanchion. It goes with the old 2012 cart and came out easily after removing a circlip. The new cart was getting restricted by it so I only had 140/100mm.

    The fork now has the full 160/120mm and feels amazing. Seriously it feels like as smooth as a float! Fox have finally sorted the Talas and if you have an older fork you need to get hold of this cartridge! Now to get out and hit some trails."

    Not sure if this is your problem but worth checking.

  49. #49
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    I don't believe this is a bump stop issue. The fork was compressed when I was doing the install, and the bottom sat free in the lower. The interference seems to be at the top where it threads in.
    @pinkrobeyyc
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    Maybe I'm stating the obvious, please have patience with me in that case:
    - Have you checked the threads on the new top cap, just to ensure it is not damaged?
    - Have you measured the length of the "non-moving" part of the new TALAS unit, to ensure it matches the length of the inner stanchion (full length, lower legs disassembled). If there is now "bump stop" this shouldn't make much of a difference, but could indicate Fox sent you the wrong part.

    And just to rule out the "bump stop" option: Is there any chance you could post a pic or two, showing the lower end of the inner stanchion without the TALAS unit assembled? I would just like to see through the empty inner stanchion to ensure we understand each other.

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