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Thread: fork boots

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    fork boots

    The rubber boots on my fork were destroyed and I put them off. Dirt can now go into the forks. Could they be destroyed from that? Should I get fork boots or its not so important. Its a budget fork with springs and elastomers (I guess). Its a suntour XCM. Thanks
    Last edited by Markleo; 11-13-2011 at 06:18 AM. Reason: .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markleo View Post
    The boots from my fork were destroyed and I put them off. Dirt can now go into the forks. Could they be destroyed from that? Thanks
    Nope, but you gotta wipe off the stanchions (the tubes) after each ride or when they are too dirty and do the same for the wipers, at the entry point of the stanchions and the lowers.

    Normal maintenance. But you can always buy some dust boots and put them back. You'll have to service the fork then, but it's fairly easy to do or your lbs can do it.

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markleo View Post
    The seals on my fork were destroyed and I put them off. Dirt can now go into the forks. Could they be destroyed from that? Should I get boots or its not so important. Its a budget fork with springs and elastomers (I guess). Its a suntour XCM. Thanks
    New version now ?

    Get a new fork. SR Suntour forks are crap and not meant to be serviced.

    And how could you think to run a fork without seals ? Kinda hard doh.

    Pics ?

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markleo View Post
    The rubber boots on my fork were destroyed and I put them off. Dirt can now go into the forks. Could they be destroyed from that? Should I get fork boots or its not so important. Its a budget fork with springs and elastomers (I guess). Its a suntour XCM. Thanks
    Alright, so this should be read this way :

    The rubber dust boots on my fork were destroyed and I took them off. Dirt can now get on the stanchions and dust wipers. Could they be destroyed from that ? Should I get new dust boots or it's not so important. It's a budget fork with springs or elastomers (I'm not sure). It's a suntour XCM. Thanks
    And here's the final answer.

    Clean the stanchions and dust wipers after each rides and when they get dirty with a soft, lint-free cloth. You could buy some new dust boot, but as far as I'm concern, it's not worth it for that fork. Better simply clean off dirt. Elastomers fork are not very common nowadays, and cheap forks just uses heavy springs.

    And a good advise, get a new (real) fork before this one break and hurt yourself.

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

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    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post

    And a good advise, get a new (real) fork before this one break and hurt yourself.

    David
    What do you mean by saying "break and hut myself"? BTW thanks for the correction, you see english is not my first language.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markleo View Post
    What do you mean by saying "break and hut myself"? BTW thanks for the correction, you see english is not my first language.
    Have a look...

    Have you ever in your life seen this?

    And welcome for the correction.

    English isn't my first language either. I'm still learning. Bike language is easier to learn then engrish

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

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    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    Have a look...

    Have you ever in your life seen this?

    And welcome for the correction.

    English isn't my first language either. I'm still learning. Bike language is easier to learn then engrish

    David

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    Quote Originally Posted by Markleo View Post
    The rubber boots on my fork were destroyed and I put them off. Dirt can now go into the forks. Could they be destroyed from that? Should I get fork boots or its not so important. Its a budget fork with springs and elastomers (I guess). Its a suntour XCM. Thanks
    Dirt entering the fork will destroy it fast. If you don't want that to happen then either replace the boots, or service it way more often than normal.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    Have a look...

    Have you ever in your life seen this?

    And welcome for the correction.

    English isn't my first language either. I'm still learning. Bike language is easier to learn then engrish

    David
    A fork seperating (with no report on why or even what the fork brand/model is) isn't related to fork seals, nor does it warrant comments like this:

    Quote Originally Posted by David C"
    I think it's time to ban RST and Suntour (SR Suntour) of the MTB market.
    www.dougal.co.nz Suspension setup & tuning.
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  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by dougal View Post
    a fork seperating (with no report on why or even what the fork brand/model is) isn't related to fork seals, nor does it warrant comments like this:
    x2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    A fork seperating (with no report on why or even what the fork brand/model is) isn't related to fork seals, nor does it warrant comments like this:
    My comment was based on the bike's manufacturer specs. The fork was stock on the bike.

    have a look :

    Giant Revel 1 specs from Giant's website :

    Fork is : SR Suntour XCM V3, 100mm Travel

    Check to confirm if it's the exact bike : Revel 1 (Black/Blue) (2012) - Bikes | Giant Bicycles | United States

    Sorry, but still think that crap components doesn't have their place into MTBs. And it's a shame most entry-level MTB sometimes up to $1 500 still comes with cheap specs or suspensions, brakes, wheel, etc. And you guys don't even wanna do anything about it.

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  12. #12
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    Not everything Suntour makes is crap, they have championship winning forks(axon) and some respectable forks as well(epicon and durolux)

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    Quote Originally Posted by mullen119 View Post
    Not everything Suntour makes is crap, they have championship winning forks(axon) and some respectable forks as well(epicon and durolux)
    Well then why they still make crap ? If SR have the tech and factory, they should get the Suntour brand back on the top shelf.

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

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    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    Well then why they still make crap ? If SR have the tech and factory, they should get the Suntour brand back on the top shelf.

    David
    $500 bikes cant be speced with $300 forks. The problem is when people take cheap parts/bikes, such as low end Suntour, RST, RS Darts and other low end forks and use them for riding there are not intended to take. Same goes for handlebars, wheel, ect...... If you have cheap stuff and you beat on it, It will eventually fail, sometimes catastrophically. Low end parts exist because there is a market for them, usually by causal riders who do very light riding, or are just starting out.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    Sorry, but still think that crap components doesn't have their place into MTBs. And it's a shame most entry-level MTB sometimes up to $1 500 still comes with cheap specs or suspensions, brakes, wheel, etc. And you guys don't even wanna do anything about it.

    David
    Who are you to decide which components are crap and what criteria do you use?

    The failure of that fork and the root cause hasn't been reported on, do you have inside information that the rest of us don't?
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Who are you to decide which components are crap and what criteria do you use?

    The failure of that fork and the root cause hasn't been reported on, do you have inside information that the rest of us don't?
    I'm a customer. I can decide wetter or not a product being presented to me is crap or good. Even better, I'm a paying customer.

    Failure of the fork haven't been reported yet, you're right. But either way, this fork has failed under normal use. I'm not saying this is specific to the fork being "cheap" or to the brand, but let's be serious, we all know those forks ain't no good on the long run.

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

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    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    I'm a customer. I can decide wetter or not a product being presented to me is crap or good. Even better, I'm a paying customer.
    You are only a paying customer for the products you buy. It's interesting you can write off whole brands of parts (wrongly IMO) as being crap, yet ride a URT as a commuter.

    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    Failure of the fork haven't been reported yet, you're right. But either way, this fork has failed under normal use. I'm not saying this is specific to the fork being "cheap" or to the brand, but let's be serious, we all know those forks ain't no good on the long run.

    David
    My experience with budget forks is they work surprisingly well. They are generally heavy (5lb) and long term problems are always maintenance related (like forks rusting solid because they have steel stanchions and are full of water).
    I have never personally sighted a pair that have separated, their designs are no more susceptible to that than higher end forks.
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    How many fox forks have you seen snapped in two pieces? suntour forks are a beginners fork they come on huffy and walgoose bikes. If your riding hard enough to rip the boot cover off it might be time to think about an upgrade. Most of the high end components go on sale and you can pick them up for a reasonable price if you are patient .

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    You are only a paying customer for the products you buy. It's interesting you can write off whole brands of parts (wrongly IMO) as being crap, yet ride a URT as a commuter.

    Ok, I gotta say when I was shopping for the most inexpensive, but still decent fork, I came across many options in the $100 range. RST, SR Suntour and also RS. I decided that a $130 Dart 2 fork would be a lot better investment compared to anything SR Suntour or RST has to offer, and I got mine at $100 new. I can easily agree that the Dart 2 fork isn't of the best quality, but after more then a 1 000 km on it in one year, including a full winter, I didn't had a single issue with it for the first full maintenance ever. I'm not riding it as a extreme off-road and I'm not hard on my bikes, but I doubt that a SR Suntour at $150 would have been better or even equal. And I've also had the occasion to take a look at both SR Suntour and RST forks and try to even service them, but they would either not be serviceable at all or were too much damages simply from regular riding, like rusting stanchions and seized bolts. So why do manufacturers specs a $600 bike with a $150 POS fork when they could put a $130 RS Dart 2 on it and have same performance, but lot more durability and abuse resistance ?

    My experience with budget forks is they work surprisingly well. They are generally heavy (5lb) and long term problems are always maintenance related (like forks rusting solid because they have steel stanchions and are full of water).
    I have never personally sighted a pair that have separated, their designs are no more susceptible to that than higher end forks.

    Well, using cheap plastic top caps, cheap bolts that rust or are made from poor metal that they would break easier under torque, etc... I'll try a comparison between screwdrivers : good, quality screwdrivers have specially hardened tips to ensure durability and prevent the tip to round off on his life span. They cost more, but they will last longer and keep a better grip. Cheaper screwdrivers will also work well, but not as long or durable as quality ones, because they are made from poor metal or weaker hardening process. So that's the point I wanna prove. It's not the design, it's the quality of the build and the materials that make a difference.

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

  20. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    David
    Pretty funny coming from a guy who owns/defends a Dart 2.

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    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    And I've also had the occasion to take a look at both SR Suntour and RST forks and try to even service them, but they would either not be serviceable at all or were too much damages simply from regular riding, like rusting stanchions and seized bolts.
    Let us stop right there.
    Not servicable at all. Rubbish. All forks are servicable.
    Rusted stanchions and siezed bolts are not damage from regular riding. They are damage from abuse and lack of maintenance.

    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    So why do manufacturers specs a $600 bike with a $150 POS fork when they could put a $130 RS Dart 2 on it and have same performance, but lot more durability and abuse resistance ?
    Please tell me you're trolling!

    Quote Originally Posted by David C View Post
    Well, using cheap plastic top caps, cheap bolts that rust or are made from poor metal that they would break easier under torque, etc...
    Again lets look at your supposed issues.
    Plastic top-caps. I'm pretty sure every manufacturer but Fox has done this, it's only a problem for those who muppet wrench.
    Show me these bolts made from "poor metal". As an engineer I know a little about metal and fasteners, about the softest you ever get is plain carbon steel around 220MPa yield. In bolt terms this is a grade 4.6. Even a 6mm grade 4.6 bolt can take over 5Nm of torque. 5Nm is 44 in-lbs. At this point they have a clamp load of around 450kg.
    Like the plastic top-caps, if you break those it's your fault, not the forks.

    Bolts rusting? They heave exactly the same rust resistance as the other chrome plated steel bolts that cover your bike.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dougal View Post
    Let us stop right there.
    Not servicable at all. Rubbish. All forks are servicable.
    Rusted stanchions and siezed bolts are not damage from regular riding. They are damage from abuse and lack of maintenance.



    Please tell me you're trolling!



    Again lets look at your supposed issues.
    Plastic top-caps. I'm pretty sure every manufacturer but Fox has done this, it's only a problem for those who muppet wrench.
    Show me these bolts made from "poor metal". As an engineer I know a little about metal and fasteners, about the softest you ever get is plain carbon steel around 220MPa yield. In bolt terms this is a grade 4.6. Even a 6mm grade 4.6 bolt can take over 5Nm of torque. 5Nm is 44 in-lbs. At this point they have a clamp load of around 450kg.
    Like the plastic top-caps, if you break those it's your fault, not the forks.

    Bolts rusting? They heave exactly the same rust resistance as the other chrome plated steel bolts that cover your bike.
    Don't forget that we are not talking about expensive forks here, but cheap stuff.

    Please note I did mention the word "cheap" before "plastic top caps". Plastic top caps are ok. Cheap ones are not. Plastic is too soft on the cheap ones.

    And I'm not trolling about the Dart fork as being way better then any other SR Suntour or RST fork in the same range in term of quality of the build and materials. I'm not saying that $100 fork is the best in the world, but that is a reliable and super value fork. Go ask those guys running $800+ Fox forks if they ever had problem with durability of their forks. I bet no Fox fork ever had a trouble-free life span. Same for many other forks. But if you want a real fork for MTB, go with something better then the Darts. If you need a cheap, reliable fork for a commuter, you better get a Dart then any other entry-level fork if you're looking at max $100. It's all related to what you need.

    I'll get you some pics tomorrow about nice rusty SR Suntour forks. Now it's 0:30, so I ain't moving myself to the basement. I'm going to sleep now.

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

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    I was going to stay out of this, but I'll chime in:
    All of my Fox forks, and my friends' Fox forks, have been trouble free. The oldest one is over 6 years old and shows no signs of slowing down. I preform maintenance on them at a minimum every 50 riding hours.

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    Quote Originally Posted by bad mechanic View Post
    I was going to stay out of this, but I'll chime in:
    All of my Fox forks, and my friends' Fox forks, have been trouble free. The oldest one is over 6 years old and shows no signs of slowing down. I preform maintenance on them at a minimum every 50 riding hours.
    Thanks for the infos. This also apply to any "real" fork, such as RS, Fox, Marzocchi, Magura, etc... Crap fork with cheap build will wear out so quick that any full maintenance will keep them running as long as a real fork, unless you replace parts frequently.

    Buy what ever you judge good for you and I'll do so.

    David
    Quote Originally Posted by NicoleB28 View Post
    topless. that's what all mtb girls do. we go ride, get topless, have pillow fights in the woods, scissor, then ride home!

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    sorry for the thread revival. i have a 99 rock shox judy c fork and was wondering the same if it'd be fine to remove the rubber accordion type fork boots. the problem is it doesn't cover all the way from the top to the bottom of the stanchions... i pull it down halfway the stanchions length so it pushes against the bottom part. for road and smooth rides, it works fine. but when i use it on the trails with pretty rough terrain, the short length of the boots causes it to slowly get pushed up to the top part. in the end, i just notice the boot to be just "hanging" with the seals showing...

    from what i understand, as long as i do maintenance and it has good wiper seals it should be fine for the most part. here's a pic of the seal part: is that wiper seal acceptable? is it even a wiper seal (fork being a '99 model)? btw, it hangs like that after riding my local trails...


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